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Author Topic: Mags: Alleged self-running alien tech motor - not so mind blowing  (Read 14714 times)
Group: Guest
Mags:

I am just posting this to exemplify a theme I mentioned earlier this evening.

You are checking into an old motor clip in this thread:

http://www.overunity.com/12147/this-might-blow-your-mind/msg315128/#new

The question that you are not asking yourself is about the possibility of a battery being inside the coil.  How come you are not asking that question?

Looking at the simplified schematic of the motor you see a reed switch in parallel with a capacitor.  Depending on where you look it says, "When the reed switch closes power enters the second coil."  Somewhere else it says, "When the reed switch closes, some energy is released from the capacitor, which activates the primary coil."

Mags, to repeat, the reed switch is in parallel with the capacitor.  So when the reed switch closes the capacitor is shorted out and all of the energy stored in the capacitor is burned off in the interconnect wires in a fraction of a fraction of a second.  The explanations above are nonsensical junk.

I realize that you are just reopening an old file and you don't necessarily believe that what you see in the clip is true.  But the point is is that it's not true, there is a battery inside the core of the coil.  One battery could power the setup for hours and hours, possibly a day or more, and the clip is 3 1/2 minutes long.  The discussion about what happens when the reed switch closes is complete nonsense.

My conclusion is that the person that did that clip two years ago had psychological problems.  It's just another Romero or Mylow situation.  I am sorry that he has health problems now, but the clip is clearly a fake.

But the most important thing I want to get across in this posting is that so far you have made five postings on that thread and you never wondered if the clip might have been faked with a battery.  Why is that?  Why didn't you ask that question?  I am really curious to know.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Well Mags,

I saw your link and I completely forgot we discussed this 2 1/2 years ago.  So this is he old cliche, it's deja vu all over again.

I'll even repeat the same challenge from so long ago:  When it doesn't work, spin the magnet by hand and with your scope probe and whatever other tools you want to use, produce timing diagrams for the circuit and post them.  Give a full technical explanation to your peers explaining why it doesn't work.

Then add a battery and figure out how to make it work and demo a working setup.  Then explain how the fake was done with full timing diagrams posted in the thread.

If you just build it and give up then you learn nothing and it's just more spinning of your wheels and going nowhere - stagnation.  If you do what I am suggesting to you above then you learn something and you get to share it with your peers - progress.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

The thing will never work, I guarantee you.  So it would be a fun challenge to create a fake based on the limited information available.  Learning how to do a fake would be a valid learning experience for all.

I haven't worked seriously on a bench in about 20 years.  The response to the "you never build anything" refrain is that even through it's been 20 years I could still spin circles around you and make your jaw drop if I was to analyze something in detail.

The challenge you should impose on yourself is to figure out exactly what's happening with that fake magic coil-motor setup.  I was just articulating the same challenge to you that I would have given to myself.  If your plan is to try all combinations of coil windings, all sorts of different diodes, and all sorts of combinations and permutations of the reed switch in search of a "magic combination that works," then you are just becoming a brute-force automaton jumping through hoops.  That's not learning, that's just the status quo.

Quote
But there is something not quite right in the absolute assumption that there is a battery in the unit, and not a lick of proof of it.

That's a classic free energy fail.  I don't have to prove that there is a battery in the device.  Rather, somebody has to prove that there isn't a battery in the device.  This is absolutely critical for your critical thinking skills.  If you think that the burden of proof is with the other guy, then you are dooming yourself to failure.

The only way you will be able to get the electric motor in that clip to work in your replication is if you put a battery inside the device to provide the electric power to drive the motor.  If you allege that there is no battery inside the device then you have to prove it.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Mags:

The reason you would want to make a motor that runs on a concealed battery would be as a lesson for others.  Too many people look at clips like that and they believe that they are real.  That's how the Perendev motor guy got rich and then got busted and is now in jail.  To be honest though that is secondary to my main point.  My main point was to use your scope and your wits and construct a timing diagram for the device.  Show the voltages and currents induced into the circuit as the magnet rotates.  That would not be easy for most people to do, it's a challenge.  Then you explain the timing diagram and that explains how the device works. It also would clearly explain how it's impossible for the device to work unless you add a battery.  The whole point is to demystify the device.

The humongous missing element in all of the work done by the replicators is the making of timing diagrams.  It one of the most basic fundamental things that's used for understanding how circuits work and you and your peers almost never do them.  That's why I am suggesting it to you.

Anyway, those are just my suggestions.  It doesn't look like you are going to take them up so it will just be the same old story.  You will try series vs. parallel coils, you will try positioning the diode in different places, you will add a small biasing magnet to the reed switch so it only closes for one polarity of the rotating magnet - and after 25 hours worth of this, you will get nowhere and give up and move on.  I doubt that you will be investigating the timing of the circuit while you do this.  Same-old same-old.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

From being such a cool guy you have gone to a kind of "Mr. Hyde lite" persona.

For starters, you go ahead and try as hard as you possibly can to make it work without a battery.  Do whatever you think it will take except add a battery.  You seem pretty smug about the whole thing.

When you finally give up, I am asking you to post that you failed and acknowledge that I was right.  You have a habit of slinking away that I have seen many times before.  But this time, after all of your grandstanding, when you fail please do the honest thing and post a follow-up as requested.

For the actual circuit and the set of building blocks you are working with, I don't have to answer your questions about the voltages and currents, etc.  That was just you with the Hyde-lite character trying to throw my challenge to you back in my face.  My challenge to you is real and honest and would be a good exercise and a learning experience for all.

I just did a simple top-down analysis of the proposition using my common sense.  Imagine the coil setup pulses energy into the magnet and gives it a push as your starting point.  Then the magnet swings around and the flux cuts through the coil setup again.  You know that there will be resistive losses and Lenz law drag when that happens.  So when the magnet is ready for its next push, you know it's spinning slower.  So whatever possible energy that is available within the coil setup for the next push will be lower.  Therefore the conclusion is that if this is going to keep on spinning, somehow extra energy has to be in the coil setup at the time of the next push.

So that means that extra energy has to magically appear within the coil setup for every rotation of the magnet.  But you know the coil setup consists of two coils, perhaps a few diodes, a capacitor or two, and a reed switch.  Perhaps you will add a small biasing magnet for the reed switch.  Now, we know every single one of these components is a dead as a doornail.  There is no magical vacuum energy entering into a non-existent Bloch wall in a coil like Mr. Budonkadonk alleges.  That pure nonsense.  The coil setup is DEAD Magluvin.  It doesn't matter if it's 300 turns or 2000 turns, or 4000 turns or if the wire gauges are 30 or 24.  It's all irrelevant.  Deep down inside I think you know this also.

So I don't have to give you the information about the voltages and currents in the setup.  I am not building it and I don't have a scope.  It's my challenge to you simply because that's how electronic and magnetic circuits are actually analyzed in the real world by real researchers into electronics.  I would think that you would be pleased and feel a sense of accomplishment by doing that as opposed to the grandstanding with the Mr. Hyde-lite character.

So that's my top-down analysis of your friend's fake video clip.  I am 100% confident that what I am saying is correct, whether you like it or not.  If you try to build this nonsensical setup where you spin a magnet hundreds and hundreds of times trying many variations on the coil setup that's your choice.  If you just blindly try different combinations without ever trying to figure out what is actually happening with respect to the currents induced in the two coils, when the diodes conduct, when the capacitor gets charged, what exactly happens when the reed switch closes, etc, then that's just a lost opportunity for you to teach yourself.

Again, I am challenging you to post saying that I was right after you finally give up.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2012-03-16, 04:37:32 by MileHigh »
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

As far as the challenge goes for adding a battery to the setup goes, I have some interesting thoughts for you.  If you just use the base set of building blocks that you outline in the thread, two coils, a few diodes, one capacitor, a reed switch, and an optional small biasing magnet for the reed switch, then I think that it will be next to impossible to make a motor, even with the battery.

The reason that it will be next to impossible is that with the building blocks listed above, you are missing one really important 'hook' to make it workable.  You can think about that one for yourself.

You seemed to be implying that it would be easy to make what amounts to a one-magnet no-bearing Budonkadonk motor and I would not be surprised if you made one yourself in the past during the one-magnet no-bearing Budonkadonk motor craze.  However, if you restrict yourself to the available hardware as shown in the two variations of your friend's schematic, and give yourself the luxury of adding a small biasing magnet for the reed switch, I believe that it will be nearly impossible to make a motor with an added battery.

With respect to Romero's 'contribution,' it's classically symptomatic of the 'sickness' among people that show propositions and the attempted replicators alike.  Look, Romero throws a hastily created drawing at you called, "Selfrunningmotor1" and you thank him and ask a few questions.  That's it???  My God, wake up time Magluvin.  You feign asking me for all of the details and then in the next breath you thank Romero for a simplistic drawing with no details.  That doesn't compute.

Is Romero's reed switch normally open or normally closed?  What's the point of having a diode in the circuit if it's bypassed by a short circuit?  Most importantly WHERE IS ROMERO'S EXPLANATION FOR HOW IT WORKS?  It's just more junk Magluvin.  Romero's unexplained submission will never work.

You allege that I am trying to discourage progress, but ironically enough, you are about to spin your wheels and go nowhere.  My advice to you is intended to expedite your personal progress with respect to your hobby.  Do a timing diagram and learn from it.  That's the only place where you will progress with respect to this replication.  Put yourself in a better and wiser position to evaluate the next related claim that comes along.

MileHigh
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3003
Quote from: MileHigh
...
Looking at the simplified schematic of the motor you see a reed switch in parallel with a capacitor.  Depending on where you look it says, "When the reed switch closes power enters the second coil."  Somewhere else it says, "When the reed switch closes, some energy is released from the capacitor, which activates the primary coil."
...

Apparently the schematic is not an accurate
depiction of the actual hookup - certain of the
components may be shown incorrectly positioned
and connected.

It shouldn't be too difficult to make corrections.

The sequence of events should be:

1.  Charge Capacitor from first coil,

2.  Close Switch,

3.  Discharge Capacitor into second coil.

4.  Open Switch

5.  Goto 1


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

I am encouraging you to analyze the circuit properly.  I am suggesting that you use your scope and your wits to construct a timing diagram so that you can understand what is really happening in the circuit.  Then I am encouraging you to use your newly gained knowledge to arrive at the proper conclusion, that the device cannot possibly work based on your own analysis.  Note that will be backing up your experimental evidence.  Then after that I am encouraging you to try and figure out how it was faked and to understand that also.  That's a challenge where the clip shows you a fake 'black box' motor, and you try to figure out what is inside the black box.

And you and Romero call that 'suppression?'  There is something wrong with that picture.

Just for fun I did a quick date check.  Your friend's fake video is from August 2009.   I checked and a second-generation Jonny Davro "one magnet no bearing Budonkadonk" clip is dated June 2009.  So that means that the "one magnet no bearing" craze was during the summer of 2009.  Does that sound about right?  Isn't it amazing that your friend comes out with a 'magic' motor that looks exactly like a one magnet no bearing Budonkadonk motor in August 2009?  Do you think there might be a coincidence there?

You and Romero are playing silly Straw Man games, trying to pretend that I am out of control, need a doctor, etc.  If both of you would just grow up a bit and acknowledge what I am really saying to you then you can get on with the job.

Specifically to Romero and the doctor comments, you need to take a look in the mirror.  You are the one that lost it and faked a self-running motor.  Then for the past year you have stood by and watched replicators waste their hard-earned money and their time on your foolishness.  If I recall correctly I once calculated that the opportunity cost associated with your irrational impulse to be about one million dollars.  You are the one that needs to see a doctor.

So don't play the 'suppression' card or the 'MIB' card with me, that's ridiculous.  I am encouraging you to do it right, and I am telling you that there is a foregone conclusion.

When you finally concede that I am right after spinning your wheels for who knows how many hours, please show some character and post that the device does not work and that you agree with me that the clip is a fake.  Like I said, you can get something good out of this by developing timing diagrams and understanding what is going on in the circuit and understanding how it cannot work.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

Quote
I know. He tries to be a tricky bugger. I was once a bit intimidated by him. But now, Im seeing his game.

Read my previous posting one more time.  It looks pretty damn straightforward to me.  There is absolutely no reason for me to try to dick you around.  Rosemary said, "He's now INSISTING that you've staked your reputation on this working."  That's more nonsensical Straw Man foolishness, Rosie Posie trying to put words in my mouth, things that I never said.

You are the one that has been 'off balance' Magluvin, since your little dust-up about a week ago.  You are the one that is dancing and prancing around in a fake character - you are the poseur.  You have assumed this 'bad boy' character, and you are not conducting yourself as per your normal emotional center of gravity.  This puts stress on your psyche because you have to keep on expending extra mental energy to stay 'in character.'

I'm not playing any games and if you reread my last few postings in this thread again that should be abundantly clear to you.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin,

You are alleging that I made statements about the battery that are "utter nonsense."  What statements and why do you allege that they are nonsense?

I find the tone of your whole posting somewhat bizarre, to say the least.  You can forget about the showdown at the O.K. corral.

Going back to the technical, look at this quote from Romero:

Quote
I believe the 4000 is required if the ball is small. A bigger ball with stronger magnetic field should work with less windings. I constructed one coil with 4000 turns and taps at every 1000 turns.
Different size wire might be required, I built my coil like that.I will try it this weekend.

So what seems to be implicit here is that you need more turns in the coil to "catch more energy."  If that is indeed what you and Romero are thinking, then you are wrong and both of you should educate yourselves about this important matter.

My advice is to go buy a spool of speaker wire at Radio Shack.  There's your bifilar coil.  Buy a spool of smaller-gauge wire if you want more turns.  The requirement for a 4000-turn coil as a starting point frankly sounds ridiculous to me, especially considering what I just said above.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin,

This one from you is worth quoting:

Quote
Till midnight you have. Ill give you that. Till then or after 12 am if you dont agree, ya get nuthin.

Then you will come to OU under a new FAKE member, like SpikyVoltage, or PoonPoonMagoon, what ever.  And I will recognize you, as done before, and you will get banned again, just as you have before.  Your a known Rebannder.  lol

Mags   Ova and out     Till the clock strikes 12 M.  That is the best I will do for you.

You are sounding borderline nuts and like a member of the free energy Sturmabteilung.  You should be ashamed of yourself.

Even stating that I will say what I want to say is distasteful to me.  Plus you are so screwed up that you have barely been able to even acknowledge what I have been saying to you about the clip and your replication attempt from the beginning.

Unbelievable.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Mags and Romero:

Quoting Romero:

Quote
Check this one here  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1TgzNl2dQ
 
The magnets arrangement should work better like that than the magnet ball.

Why are you saying that the magnet arrangement should work better than the magnet ball?  Take note both of you that when you are doing things like building an alleged motor, that if you make a point, then you must have a logical reason to make your point.  Just saying something without giving the reason or reasons for it is no good.

So again, for Romero, why are you saying that?

Same thing for you Magluvin.  If you think that you are seeing something, then what do you think that you are seeing and why do you think it's a beautiful thing?

I disagree with Romero.  I don't think that the rotating magnet arrangement in Mopozco's clip will work better than a spinning magnetic ball and I have my reasons.  I am not saying them though because you guys are supposed to be the experts that actually build pulse motors.  I want to hear what you guys have to say.

I know that this makes it harder, when you actually have to back up your statements with logical reasoning.

As a side note about that clip from Mopozco:  There are two major flaws in that clip that I see right away.  But I never build pulse motors, some people say because of that I have no credibility.  So I will put the question to you two pulse motor builders, Magluvin and Romero:  What are the two major flaws in Mopozco's clip?

You are the guys that build pulse motors, so you should know better than me.

Since you mentioned the battery Magluvin.  Here is an outstanding question from an earlier post about batteries:  You are alleging that I made statements about the battery that are "utter nonsense."  What statements and why do you allege that they are nonsense?

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Mags and Romero:

Quoting Romero:

Why are you saying that the magnet arrangement should work better than the magnet ball?  Take note both of you that when you are doing things like building an alleged motor, that if you make a point, then you must have a logical reason to make your point.  Just saying something without giving the reason or reasons for it is no good.

So again, for Romero, why are you saying that?

Same thing for you Magluvin.  If you think that you are seeing something, then what do you think that you are seeing and why do you think it's a beautiful thing?

I disagree with Romero.  I don't think that the rotating magnet arrangement in Mopozco's clip will work better than a spinning magnetic ball and I have my reasons.  I am not saying them though because you guys are supposed to be the experts that actually build pulse motors.  I want to hear what you guys have to say.

I know that this makes it harder, when you actually have to back up your statements with logical reasoning.

As a side note about that clip from Mopozco:  There are two major flaws in that clip that I see right away.  But I never build pulse motors, some people say because of that I have no credibility.  So I will put the question to you two pulse motor builders, Magluvin and Romero:  What are the two major flaws in Mopozco's clip?

You are the guys that build pulse motors, so you should know better than me.

Since you mentioned the battery Magluvin.  Here is an outstanding question from an earlier post about batteries:  You are alleging that I made statements about the battery that are "utter nonsense."  What statements and why do you allege that they are nonsense?

MileHigh
Hi Milehigh,

first I would like to know why do you have to opose any postings you don't like, good or bad, real, fake or anything. You act like a judge but nobody asked you to do it. Why don't you do what most of us do, ignore everything you dislike, you will do us a favor and I am sure that will be better for you too, just act normal...

I am not saying that schematic posted by Mags is working or not, I said I will just give it a try, not exactly with the schematic posted there as I found some problems in it.
I have actually started playing with it this last weekend and ofcourse no success... but that does not mean I am giving up, I will try more before I will give up.

Regarding why the rotating magnet arrangement in Mopozco's clip is better - simple, the magnet poles will always face the coil as with a ball that is impossible to have them always aligned to the coil.

One more thing I said before, I love playing with these things, success or not, with knowledge or not I am always enjoing what I do, why is that a problem with you? Same like me there are lots of people doing the same thing,  we are acting like the kids, curiosity, try and learn... even if our posts or youtube videos are bad people will still learn something but I can guarantee you most of us have no intention to guide people in wrong direction.

With all this hate addressed to me and others I still wish you all the best,

Romero
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1443
Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Very profound...


---------------------------
   
Group: Guest
Romero:

It's the same old story.  Poor Romero and Magluvin, they can't get any peace from the Big Bad Wolf.  It's really annoying and you want to play the victim that everybody is supposed to feel sorry for.  It's pure pandering to the "sympathy vote."

Look, I encouraged Magluvin to test his setup and do it properly.  I encouraged him to make a timing diagram and try to understand the circuit.  I also told him straight-up that it was not going to work, it was impossible.  And what was your response?  You both cried, "Suppression!"  That's completely ridiculous, grow up and be men.

I will not be demonized by you or anyone when I simply want to state the truth.  Do you understand me?  Poor Romero he can't cope with hearing differing opinions.  So his only solution is to ask anyone that wants to express an idea that he will not like is to not express their opinions.  That keeps the Big Bad World safe and easy for Romero.  He can play with his toys without having to deal with reality.

Magluvin said he wanted to replicate a faked pulse motor and linked to the YouTube clip.  I looked at the clip and told him what I thought.  That's all, there is nothing more to it than that.  Then Magluvin became a bad boy.  Apparently some grown men can't deal with being told the truth, they get all mad and want to be comfortably numb and suck on magnets like they are a pacifier.

I will repeat it again:  Stop playing the victim and grow up.  Stop your ridiculous attempts to demonize me.

There is no problem with me at all.  The problem is with you.

Quote
With all this hate addressed to me and others I still wish you all the best,

There was never any hate expressed whatsoever.  It's pure sleazy Straw Man on your part.  That line is a pathetic attempt to show how much "character" you have by stating that even though I am a "demon" you can still "wish me the best."  You are just having a pissing contest with yourself and showing that you are lacking in character.  Like I said, stop playing the victim and stop the Straw Man bullshit.

Finally, on the technical side:

Quote
Regarding why the rotating magnet arrangement in Mopozco's clip is better - simple, the magnet poles will always face the coil as with a ball that is impossible to have them always aligned to the coil.

That's really awesome there Romero.  What you said makes no sense at all and that indicates that you are apparently not aware of the issues under consideration.  That's not too impressive considering you were idolized by hundreds of people that were asking you all sorts of technical questions because of your amazing clips demonstrating an "over unity pulse motor."  You were supposed to be a technical guru yet your answer above is in Rosemary Ainslie territory.  The bottom line is the clip that Magluvin wants to replicate and your three clips from a year ago demonstrate exactly the same principle in action.  The principle is not related to electromagnetics, it's related to cognitive function and id/ego/superego.

One more time, I never express myself with malicious intent, I just tell it like it is and I seriously try to help people also.  I tried to give Magluvin some good solid advice.  If you can't handle that tough luck for you.  Do not attempt to demonize me again.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Unfortunately there is no treatment for you MileHigh, your mental problems are beyond any limits.
Keep doing what you do, how long before other members here will get on your list?
Set your new target, I am not here anymore to read your sick posts, you need audience, I don't...

Romero
   
Group: Guest
Romero:

That reply was total bullshit.  We have an expression in English, "beating a hasty exit."  You can't cope with what I said.  You have mental problems from when you made those fake clips from last year.  Have you dealt with them yet?

What you really need to do is go to the Hyperphysics web site and learn about magnetics.

MileHigh
   
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