simplified Gray motor

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mbrownn

simplified Gray motor « on: 2012-05-19, 07:11:37 »

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Posts: 246

This is a simplified Gray motor circuit, It will work with any DC brushed motor with an additional external commutator. Obviously the higher the motor efficiency the better it will work.

The external commutator does all the switching, the capacitor needs to be sized to the motor and you have to limit the motor speed or it will self destruct. I tried to limit my motor at about 6000RPM but the slightest increase in load causes the motor to stall

This motor is a 12v 100W permanent magnet motor which in theory would be in overunity when pulsed on 30v, In practice it wasn't. As you increase the voltage input the efficiency increases but by the time it gets into the range we want it, my motor was badly overheating. Its not just the coils, its the iron. maybe this is one of the reasons Gray made some motors with plastic cases.

This is one of the many motor circuits I am working on for the lockride device.

Give it a try, using a different motor to me you might get better results.

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+1.3241202019156522+38+5.0+50%0A178+512+352+544+352+0+2+2.0E-9+3.4E-321+0.05+1000000.0+0.02+20.0%0Av+512+384+512+400+0+2+100.0+5.0+5.0+0.0+0.5%0Al+320+304+320+352+0+0.01+3.132926126721187%0Ar+512+304+320+304+0+0.25%0Av+512+352+320+352+0+0+40.0+11.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Av+832+448+832+288+0+0+40.0+30.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ac+640+336+640+448+0+1.0E-5+232.4766546761393%0Ad+544+336+640+336+1+0.805904783%0Ad+832+288+544+288+1+0.805904783%0Aw+640+320+640+336+0%0Aw+544+368+544+448+0%0Aw+544+448+640+448+0%0Ad+640+320+544+320+1+0.805904783%0Ar+640+448+832+448+0+0.2%0Ao+5+16+1+291+299.3155353253689+9.765625E-55+0+-1%0Ao+2+16+0+35+320.0+12.8+1+-1%0Ao+2+16+1+291+1197.2621413014756+9.765625E-55+1+-1%0Ao+6+16+0+291+320.0+12.8+2+-1%0Ao+6+16+1+291+1280.0+9.765625E-5+2+-1%0A

Slider2732

Re: simplified Gray motor « Reply #1 on: 2012-05-26, 04:26:45 »

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Posts: 1602
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.

I'm running WattOS here (Linux) and for the life of me can't get the Java to work on that site. But, am very interested in the cap idea and in the procedure for changing various motors to run at least partially efficiently !
Several good strong motors are from cordless drills and can use disastrous amounts of power...3 or 4 amps easily. I want to cut the torque and use mA.
However, the thought of a rewind was where I was going...the Gray idea might be an alternative and especially pulsing ?

Am still following your work, just struggling a bit with a PC whose BIOS just celebrated its 10th birthday lol

---------------------------

ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

mbrownn	Re: simplified Gray motor « Reply #2 on: 2012-05-26, 14:09:28 »
Full Member Posts: 246	He He my computer is about the same. I dont think the gray circuit would take us into overunity alone but combined with other methods I am working on I think it would

Slider2732	Re: simplified Gray motor « Reply #3 on: 2012-06-28, 20:18:24 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1602 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Ahaaaa! finally - In Ubuntu, open a terminal window and paste: sudo apt-get install icedtea-plugin That fixed it ! Looking at the simulation now --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Hiwater

Re: stock gm armature feild coils « Reply #4 on: 2012-06-30, 02:55:33 »

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Posts: 137

Have been studying some of these stock GM armatures . Some of them are wound with the outer windings to the right and others are wound with the outer windings wound to the left. Then there is one thst have the windings coming to the center from each side.They are the same at 180 apart.

If i move the motor feild coil toward the direction of the winding it uses more amps to motorise. Havent cut the slot in the other direction yet to see how it acts. Als if i put the motor coil under the negative brush it will motorise the reverse of the original positionunder the positive brush. The armature with the windings coming to the center from each way wont motorise on the oppositeside under the neg brush.

Another thing i realised is half of the armature slots are leading and the other half are lagging under the feild pole. The magnetic feild must be stronger at the leading edge of rotation. Or maybe they are half north and half south.

Havent made the switching unit yet . did find a peice of plastic pipe for the shaft, so its on the list of to do things. Not much time to worh on these in the summer. But what i do I will post here.

I did put a center tap in one of the feild coils and could charge the coil while grounding it out. then when i removed it from ground It would light a 12 volt bulb pretty bright. There was enough there to get a shock but it was kind of a different shock compared to others ive had. Tha was on one of the generators while it was motorising. thats about all I have for right now. Untill i get some more experimenting done.

mbrownn

Re: simplified Gray motor « Reply #5 on: 2012-06-30, 03:16:44 »

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Posts: 246

What do you think of the circuit?

Note we have an overunity when we compare the input with the power in the motor coil but that does not give us more mechanical power from the motor. It is the current flowing through the motor that gives us the mechanical power so the mechanical is the current times the designed motor voltage

OK so our motor isn't overunity in its mechanical output but it is quite efficient when compared to the input.

The power in the coil may well be real as my experiments appeared to show a lot of heat production suggesting that the excess power was dissipated as heat. So what do we do next?

Gray built a motor designed to run at the voltages he was running at thus the motor was giving more torque per amp by having a larger number of turns but still maintaining very low resistance. The lockridge device seamed as though it was using a, more or less, standard generator as a motor but with wiring and possibly geometry changes. I have noticed on one of grays motors that there was two coils wound on each stator field plus on the lockridge there are many field coils. Could it be a transformer action is being exploited?

Aviso uses a high power higher voltage motor from something like a fork lift truck which will indeed have a very low resistance motor so it may be easier to do with large motors but we would have to expect a lower power output and input than what such a motor was designed for. Note that Aviso's car has a much lower weight than a fork lift yet its performance is similar. A golf cart or Fork trick motor may be a way forward.

I am of the opinion that this method could be one of the secrets of the Lockridge device but because of its small size there were other "tricks" being exploited too.

mbrownn	Re: simplified Gray motor « Reply #6 on: 2012-06-30, 03:21:28 »
Full Member Posts: 246	Hiwater, Nice to hear that you are still working on it. All my stuff is in storage at the moment, since moving house, so I can only theorize for now.

Hiwater

Re: simplified Gray motor « Reply #7 on: 2012-07-02, 05:37:11 »

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Posts: 137

The Golf cart motors that drive the rear end are 36 volt. They have plenty of power. When I figured how to connect it to run, thetorque from the motor lifted it up on the one edge about an inch. Never checked the rpm. it spins at least 5-7000 rpm. It has terminals A1 and A2. The small golf cart sta-gen i have came off a cart with a gas engine. It has the same terminal markings.

I was thinkin that may be that the lockridge was coils taken out of a vw starter and put in a gen case. Because of the brushe system is easier to work with and the reason for the triffilar coil was to phase change the other set of starter coils and boost up the voltage to the capacitor. because there just is very much room inside the case to do very much at all. iv been ther and done a lot of this. Its just putting the right combination to gether.

How does the A1 and A2 work. must be a type of a split phase motor.

probably the best way i can think of right now is to put in 2 sets of motor coils in and 2 extra brushes and switch between the motor action coils for running and pick up the bemf from the brushes to the triffilar coil then to the capacitors.

mbrownn

Re: simplified Gray motor « Reply #8 on: 2012-07-02, 12:37:34 »

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Posts: 246

You may be right about the trifilar coil, I haven't yet been able to decide exactly what function will be required from it.

I haven't been able to lay my hands on a golf cart motor yet, so I cant help much there but I am working on that.

I suspect that the torque and power will be way down using this circuit but golf cart motors have huge torque and power so it should not be too much problem running one this way. Watch the cap because if it is too small the voltage will go up to the KV range