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Author Topic: Jack's dual transformer device  (Read 200 times)
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Early today, Jack Noskills introduced a device he has been working on (below).  I encourage testing of this device as it was freely and generously offered by Jack.

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Jack Noskills 3 july 2012 #6597 don smith thread: I played with two 1:1 trafos a bit and I was able to connect them so that I can get more power out than it consumes. I used small laminated iron trafos whose output was rated at 20 watts. I get maybe about 30-35 watts out, primary uses less than 6 watts. Exact COP is not important as this is low power, but how to get this result should be usefull information. I am putting this here as it is simple and it should be usable in DS type circuit. If you have two 1:1 trafos you can easily verify it.

Now look at the picture, the second trafo is connected so that as current in one coil goes from left to right, it creates current in the second coil from right to left. Then I feed both currents to load from the same side. When load is connected current on primary side rises for a moment and then it returns back to same level as before. Now the fun starts if this second trafo is more powerfull than the first trafo, it starts pushing power back. I had nanoperm core which I tried, not powerfull enough but the idle current in primary went down a bit when power was taken. Thus COP was increased even more.

I also tried series caps between load and trafos, and they further increased output while input went down. I ended up in a situation where 25 watt bulb on the primary side did not even glow while output was about 30-35 watts. After enough series caps primary side started to consume more so I quess I was sort of tuning it.

The first trafo had high self inductance (coil resistance 165 ohms), meaning that when it is connected to mains without load only little current goes through. This high self inductance is essential to get OU effect. I smashed some chinese made christmas light trafos and took four primaries from there and made 1:1 trafos from them. My 1:1 version was not perfect so it had a bit more this leakage current than the real one. This I was able to reduce with series caps but I think that caps would not have been needed if I could have made just little tighter package.

If someone has scope, then it would be usefull to check out what exactly happens if you can replicate this. Maybe even a simulator could show this effect as there are no spark gaps involved.

Dr. Jones, you still got those Gold Medals available ? I wonder if this would qualify, most likely someone must have figured this out already. Has anyone seen this before ? If not, then I have a name for it: TrollBuster, lol.

I replied briefly on the same thread:

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YES, they are still available, and I appreciate your asking.
I really like that you get in and build and experiment, Jack, and are willing to share to benefit others.
Quote:
The new renaissance prize is offered to encourage an altruistic inventor to step forward and offer his gift to humankind, while receiving an immediate reward for the first non-conventional device to go to mankind.
"most likely someone must have figured this out already." Maybe so, but getting it "out the door" to become a blessing to mankind is the key and difficult step -- there is much distraction and even opposition. Please let me know if I can help. My straightforward solar funnel cooker invention a dozen years ago -- I offered it freely and it has gone worldwide, especially helping families in third-world countries such as Haiti. I sent hundreds of these to Haiti, Kenya, Bolivia, Peru, Uganda and other countries.

I'd like to try this, and encourage YOU to give it a try.  Now, any suggestions as to which 1:1 trafos to use?

   
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I have been studying transformer effects and there are gains that can be made from them via resonance, capturing transients and magnifying transients; this is all proven. All well built Tesla coils are capable of this.

I don't know much about the transformers used here but I will tell you what would be needed to get results that would warrant further study.

Relatively High impedance

Low resistance

AC at the resonant frequency and/or pulsed with a very short on time and fast switching, faster than the resonant frequency

All the coils in a form of resonance

Looking at the circuit and assuming some resonance and the transformers being identical there will be a gain in amplitude but current will go down. Cores and ohmic resistance cause losses although a core helps you maximize the magnetic effects which I believe are free. If the two transformers are are of different frequencies but still resonant on some harmonic, it would be possible to get an increase in amplitude and an increase in current for a short period in the waveform but the rest of the waveform would lack amplitude or current. It sort of works like interferometry partially cause by a phase shift of the current. The overall power should be in fact less than the input.

A way to make this more interesting would be to operate this set of coils on a half wave rectified resonant frequency and then pulse with DC at the peak of the wave with a high voltage pulse of very short duration. This should cause both the current and voltage to jump. What we would be looking for is the transformers ability to maintain the higher rate of current due to its inductance.

Similar tests that I tried resulted in what I thought was this phenomenon but measurements showed no increase in output power. What I did notice was an increase in heat suggesting that if there was a gain in power in the coil, it was being converted to heat.

Inductive kickback is always less than the input but when added to the input you have more than you put in, this is the principal of all free energy machines using coils. The best way to extract this energy that I have found is through the magnetism created by both the input and the inductive kickback in a motor. Any transient effects are effective on batteries and capacitors but have little other benefit that I have seen.

Note that it is the coils ability to produce this inductive kickback in the form of current that I am trying to exploit in the lockridge type devices.

In summary, If only AC is used the only possibilities are through resonance and interferometry cause by a phase shift in the current. If Pulsed then there is inductive kickback and we know that to be a gain

These are only my theories, Hope that helps a little

Mick
   
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  I appreciate your comments, Mick.  I think pulsed DC is something to try, alright, and your other ideas may prove out.

Meanwhile, Jack N has started a thread on this at overunity.com:

http://www.overunity.com/12487/simple-to-build-isolation-transformer-that-consumes-less-power-than-it-gives-out

He is using visual observation of light-bulb brightness as a monitor for both input power and output power...  not very accurate!
I still think this is worth looking at...  he suggests  high-impedance 1:1 trafos -- any suggestions there?
I found these:

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/ln_out.html
Lots of choices; and not cheap...

   
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I concur with Mike's thoughts...resonance, fast switching, AC phase shifting of 90 degrees.
We read often of that phase difference and, indeed, I believe it relates to motor work too.
Tesla switched at 200uS and faster, the off has to be sharper than a Sheffield steel razor blade !

Where I believe he is seeing his brightening of bulbs and, from that situation, is believing he has extra power out is due to related work with pulsing bulbs. I may be wrong and haven't seen his setup, but this would be especially true if using LED bulbs.  
There would be no actual physically extra measurable output, but there could definitely be a huge increase is effectiveness of the voltage applied.
60Hz at 120V is a tame beast compared to 25kHz. Gain, is from a frequency of resonance, that works to amplify the light properties of the particular LED construction within the lamp. Datasheets for different LED's will show their properties. The circuits found in the bulbs will have seen R+D for 60Hz, but that's not to say they will be most effective at 60Hz.

Types of 1:1 transformer could range from hand wound on ferrite rings, like JT coils, to those found within old dial up computer modems. I've still much to learn about the various types, but 4 pin types are common in those computer parts.
With 163 ohms of resistance on the Primary, one must presume 163 ohms on the Secondary ?
I like the thoughts of high resistance on the Primary....when applied to AC, it's fairly obvious that a lot of wasted power goes through a low resistance. AC is all about voltage and not current, so in a low resistance situation on a Primary, we waste input energy that becomes heat.  


Here's the 1:1 from such a modem (a 28.8K and it's sat top middle). I'll post the ohms  as soon as I remove it from the already butchered board :)


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HO HO !
YES !
 :D
 ;D

163.2 one side and 164.5 the other.
Similar readings to Jack's report.


The writing for part number etc on the trafo reads:
671-8039
MIDCOM
HRTL/C Y530


Searches on Google have shown results for 'MIDCOM 671-8039'
Such as an equivalents datasheet: http://www.premiermag.com/pdf/pmmc.pdf
That shows an inductance of 1.6H
Turns ratio 0.92:1 or 1:1 with +/- 2%


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Moving along, looking for another modem transformer, one was found on a 56K newer model. When removed, the readings are 124.5 and 136.5 ohms.
Whether they are close enough as a pair i'll have to see...but will continue looking for other similar transformers.

Here's the 56K modem, transformer reads:
Atech ATS-273



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'MIDCOM 671-8039' 

This is very helpful, Slider, good finds!    O0
Now, is there a source for these puppies?? 
   
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If you have a bunch of old computers, like 80486's  or any up to around 2002 then there ya go :)
Searches throw up possibles but no definites. I don't know whether to trust a website with a quantity such as 14000 available and yet no specifics, just the term typed in on a Google search and a request to quote !
Nothing on Ebay it seems for those exact ones. I'm betting that any modem transformer of the time period would be similar.

I tried both the pair from modems and a pair from a Power Logic car amplifier, on a version of JonnyDavro's MOT circuit...didn't get anywhere at 1.5V, but I doubt Jack used such a system. So, the next step is to try a 12V Lasersaber type of system.
The pair from the amplifier came out as 199-203ohms and are of a similar size, so, that's another source.  
Edit - 12V on the MOT circuit produced lighting to full brightness of the neon, with the 2x transformers connected on the circuit output, but the transistor would need a heatsink.

Btw, mains isolation transformers are the same thing on a larger scale. They can be found in old arcade machines, for one thing. They protect any metal surfaces, like the control panels, from problems with the ungrounded monitors. A High Score isn't worth a big mains jolt at the same time !
« Last Edit: 2012-07-04, 02:40:27 by Slider2732 »


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  Thanks again, Slider.

Something new at Jack's OU thread -- when I try to download the circuit mod suggested by T-1000, I get this message:
Quote
An Error Has Occurred!
It seems that you are not allowed to download or view attachments on this board.

Would someone try this and see if they can download?  Also, the download with Jack's latest post -- test data I think.
  If so, pls post here.

http://www.overunity.com/12487/simple-to-build-isolation-transformer-that-consumes-less-power-than-it-gives-out

Even Jack's first post, which I downloaded just fine yesterday, won't download for me today... (Yes, I'm logged in.)
   
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I'm not a member there, but could see the diagrams fine, they are what you wanted ?

Attached are the mod that Jack posted and the T-1000 mod :)



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  Thanks, Slider.  Seems this glitch was temporary, I can view the attachments now also.

  But I have a question -- Jack is saying for his hand-wound trafo, he wound primary one way (CW I think) and the secondary the OTHER way.  Not clear if this is critical== would it be?  (Note the position of the DOTS in Jack's latest diagram, posted above by Slider here.)

  And if one uses 1:1 off-the-shelf trafos, would they have this characteristic?  would this matter?

Also, Slider-- pls tell us if you get results from your build of Jack's system -- are you building it?  or is anyone else building this dual-transformer system? 
Also, I'm still looking for some 1:1 trafos like you describe -- tomorrow I may go to a thrift store and look for old phone modems??

On Jack's ou thread, use of a step-down+step-up has been suggested as "almost" a 1:1 trafo. 
Use of a Variac was also suggested; but ruled out by someone who noted that TWO different windings are required for a replication.
   
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I am reliably informed by another researcher that counter wound coils in series was something Tesla used, John Fettuccine also used this technique in the G Field generator so it may be significant if the coils are in series. In motors, coils are normally wound the same way, I have read reports of small but significant gains when the coils are wound in the ideal direction for the application. I haven't tested this myself yet but it does seem logical.
   
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  This morning, Jack says that if the coils are wound the same way, one can simply reverse the connections on secondary and thus reverse the current and it should work...

   And he's confident he has something here.

   Another writes of the use of pulsed DC, which I think is a good idea, at least for testing purposes.
   
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Hi Experimenters,

I came across this circuit about one month ago somewhere on the Internet.



I have not yet tested it. It is on my huge "things to do" list.
I have no big toroidal core and I lack of supplier address... :-X

Has anybody tested it?

For my part, I can perceive some similarities with this Jack's dual transformer device". What about you?

I will purchase 2 of these (65 VA) 230 V/2*115 V trafos.


Le bonjour vous va,
Jean

Remembering a thing is still the best way to not forget it. (Pierre Dac)
   
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Yep, lots of experimenting with the modem transformers. They don't work at all at 1.5v on the Jonnydavro Joule Ringer circuit, but do at 3.7V using a li-ion battery. The transistor, D2641, overheated readily however and my thoughts are of the bucking collapse being the cause, present in the transformer circuit.   
Ideally, a good 555 timer circuit would run a low voltage system (for solar or battery use) and that's what i'm building now. Variable duty and frequency. Got one I made earlier (as mbrownn may remember from Blue Peter on UK TV lol) and that one was intended for 7.8Hz circuits. Could be interesting.
One thought is about decoupling the output from a Joule Ringer, using a mains rated capacitor...i've noted the back to back LED's to illuminate on the Jonnydavro circuit, whereas without a series cap, only one lights, denoting pulsed DC. Doing that may remove the pinging back to the transistor, in a transistor system.

Here's Jonny's video, just so you know what the circuit is:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y-s-GE69BQ
It offers mains AC output from as low as 1.5V

@Jean - the Jeanna's Light is somewhat similar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAakZTR_4LE
My 1.2V 2mA LED 120V nightlight uses a version of that. That is formed from a 1" toroid, 1000 wind 30 gauge output. The 2 other sections need to be adjusted for the input and load. Typically, such toroids use around 60 turns Primary, 10 turns return to trigger the Base. The mains version in your diagram replaces the transistor of course :)

Hmmm..another idea to try, pancakes and relating to Tesla. Wind one like a Joule Thief, with the opposite direction winds and put a larger pancake on top. Plates of copper, iron, steel etc could be inserted between, to test for coupling effects.


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Hi successful Experimenters,

@Slider2732:
Thanks for this vid:
"Jeanna's Light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAakZTR_4LE"

Come on! A mere (1.5 V) AA bat. A (enough fed) 2N3055, A 10W CFL.
a Neon Tube + some extra leds... 5 Hours
For my part, I feel like a Super Idiot (TM) seeing this.
Anyway#1 Super Idiot (TM) is still alive... Is he?

Anyway#2, idiotism apart?, ISIO (= In Super Idiot Opinion) , this vid is showing that some
witty configured/wound coils are worth to be tested by any well inspired creative individuals.

IMO, This ain't "Canada Dry" 'OU' (TM2).
Sorry for my English and
Mignoniaj a-berz Yann (= Jean).
   
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Oh, you are no super idiot dear sir  O0

Winding the toroids can be a pain, but, there's no need for the huge ones that were used for the Jeanna's Light types. A grey coloured 1"-1 1/4" works well. 1000-1500 turns of 30 gauge being the time consuming part.
I do wonder what would happen with 2 such toroids connected as Jack or T-1000 describe...might well be worth finding out :)

Here's probably my best small battery powered similar circuit in operation, outside with a 1W LOA LED mains bulb. It's solar recharged and uses a 3.7V li-ion battery (salvaged from an old laptop pack and rejuvenated with a Bedini wheel). Perhaps i'll double transformer this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ALKnSgQRYA


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Hi Experimenters,

I came across this circuit about one month ago somewhere on the Internet.



I have not yet tested it. It is on my huge "things to do" list.
I have no big toroidal core and I lack of supplier address... :-X

Has anybody tested it?


Le bonjour vous va,
Jean


  Jean -- I'm intrigued by this toroidal amplifier you show.  Do you know of any suggestion for how many windings of the primary and the secondary, and the size of the "big toroidal core"?   I can't find a URL for this, google searching.    I have some high-perm cores, not very big though.  IIRC I have one about 8 cm outer diameter.

Mark:
Quote
A grey coloured 1"-1 1/4" works well. 1000-1500 turns of 30 gauge being the time consuming part.
I do wonder what would happen with 2 such toroids connected as Jack or T-1000 describe...might well be worth finding out Smiley

Can you really wind 1000 turns on such a small toroid?   More power to you!

I was thinking of a toroidal transformer, but haven't found a suitable one yet on-line.

I was also thinking of a toroidal inductor.  If could fine one with enough windings, then I suppose the wire could be cut "in the middle", in an effort to make TWO windings -- thus a primary and secondary of approx equal number of windings.  Can't find a suitable high-winding toroidal inductor either though....
I may have to do some winding.   I've seen a toroid winding machine... that would be great to use! 

Or -- how about 2 coils on an E-core, thus a primary and secondary of approx equal number of windings??
   
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Winding on to a 1" or so toroid isn't too difficult :)
What you do, is prewind the wire on to a pencil say or piece of straw. Such that, the amount of wire still allows the pencil to go through the middle of the toroid. You then lap over and over winding the wire on to the toroid. Several layers will mean the inside diameter of the toroid decreases, but the pencil wound wire will also be decreasing as you go.

I couldn't get a good pic with this camera of the windings on a previously built one, but here's a vid of one I built for fellow experimenter Kyle Carrington and shipped up to Canada.
It shows the toroid, the windings (1200/12/3 ratio), running various loads including a 2.5W LOA LED bulb.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNRPkCtPfPo

That type of toroid can be found in old computer power supplies and is the sort of thing i'm thinking of running in a pair, as per Jacks method.


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  Wow, nice looking toroidal trafo, Mark! 
Well, I earlier today ordered two isolation trafs -- rather like Jean's, as on the right in attached.   $11.66 each, from Allied Electronics.
The one on the left, toroidal, is also an isolation trafo and almost did that, but cost $18.11 each... maybe next time, but soon I'll have the two little guys (1.7lbs each actually).

  I was surprised I could get these at such a low price. 
   
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  So I've ordered some 1:1 trafos online (see above).  Meanwhile today I noticed Woopy has been making progress with his kacher (catcher??) device:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI8ih5msk7c&feature=channel&list=UL

He's running a 12V DC motor while claiming no hook-up to the + of the batteries at all...  Strange if true.
Text with vid:
Quote
Testing all my best arround the Kacher , i have seen that there is a lot of connection possible with different results.

And especially that i can get a very standard 12 volt DC motor happily spinning a prop without any " positiv " connection to the battery. And without any charged capacitor .

OK will go sleeping and perhaps tomorrow will bring some more things

good luck at all

Laurent

Does anyone know WHERE in EF or OU that Woopy is posting about this?   Do you have comments on Woopy's approach?
I'd like to try it... but can't get a clear picture of what his "kacher" coil is, that is -- HOW is it wound?  and how is the antenna hooked up?
Any answers would be appreciated.
Steve/Etienne

PS -- also, noticed there is a Free the Energy conference in Holland 9-11 Nov 2012...
http://globalbem.com/conference/

   
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I believe Woopy is posting over at OU. Not sure of the thread though and i'm not a member there.
The Brovin/Kacher is a Tesla coil type setup, very much like the Slayer Exciter. The Slayer was created by Slayer007 of Energetic Forum, who posts on YouTube as GBluer.
Instead of a thin tall Secondary, it's short and fat. People such as Eric Dollard and in fact Tesla himself, used to use much larger diameter coils than the popular perceived Tesla tower setup. An interesting aside, being that the coils seen in Tesla's famous double exposure photos at Colorado Springs, are actually collector/repeater coils and not the main device ! If you look at the main device in such pictures, it's much more like the Kacher design.
i'll dig up a pic and attach.

A Kacher normally uses fewer turns than a regular thin tower, of larger gauge wire.
Here's a short vid that explains the Kacher: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMiNnHzFsRQ


How the motor runs is relatively simple, if used to Slayer Exciters. That's not to belittle Woopy's success - marvellous development.
With an AV plug (Avramenko twin diodes), you connect the AV plug to the load, an LED or a motor or something else. it half wave rectifies the incoming AC and often is enough to run something. However, these devices work far far better if a ground is connected to one of the legs on the load side. What Woopy has there, are two more diodes. You can create a virtual ground with your own body, which, is why many experimenters hold an LED as RF field detector (Lidmotor, Jonnydavro, GBluer, myself etc). The virtual Ground can be a large heatsink or a physical Ground connection. Dr. Stiffler used heatsinks and matched metal masses to great effect in his related SEC exciter circuits.

The pickup doesn't need a connection at all.
In motor run experiments, most notably for myself with wireless electric flight, you can wind a collector coil with a few turns of wire, remote from the circuit. A full bridge rectifier of 1N4148 diodes and a small electrolytic cap will allow up to about 1/2A and 80 volts to pass (depending on strength of field and capacitor rating). Faster diodes with good HV characteristics are even better. Range of running in terms of RF field distance, can be up to a few inches typically...improving with frequency matching and power output of the tower. In practical terms, 32V will give more wireless range than 1.5V, the tradeoff usually being transistor heat and why 12V systems are a common setup.  


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  Thanks for your reply, Mark!

  A few things I don't understand, for sure.
Attached from Woopys vid, shows a possible connection to +24V to the BASE of the xistor -- right?
Where is the power coming from, to spin the motor?

I guess I'm not familiar enough with Slayer circuits...  At least I know what an AV plug is now, thnks to you; learning.
   
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Btw, I just found in an earlier vid of his that he was posting the kacher experiments in the Don Smith thread at EF.


The Positive typically goes through a resistor to the Base, feedback from the Secondary is the main Base trigger. So, transistor output goes to the Primary, as well as the Positive battery feed. The induction travels through the Secondary and is picked up at the Base of the transistor to continue oscillations. The output at the other end of the Secondary is where the wireless energy comes in.
On a Slayer Exciter, a 2 turn Primary and 850 wind Secondary can produce some stunning effects. The mass of copper in the Primary should equal the mass of copper in the Secondary...you can see that the wire gauges are vastly different, typically 12 gauge Primary, 30 gauge Secondary. The Kacher is a squashed down version and the two types are comparable.

The circuits normally operate around 4MHz.
At such a high rate of oscillations, the wireless fields are easily picked up and collected. A 1.5V AA powered Exciter circuit will light neon bulbs, fluorescent tubes, lightbulbs straight through the air with zero connections or anything else. A fluorescent twirly bulb can be completely gutted of any circuit and will light readily when placed near a tower.
For DC applications, the diode rectification comes in and the half wave method, as tested and used in Russia by Avramenko for commercial AC power line transmissions is the method most people use.

So, the power can come straight through the air, from the tower :D
My own best range is 6ft distance to light an LED remotely. A receiver tower collects the airborne energy and by using a large heatsink next to it, the LED lights. Power is 32V on that system and the tower is approx 14" high 3 1/2" wide of 1000 turns 30 gauge. Primary is 2 turns, placed inside the tower.

In Woopy's case, he is connecting directly to the Secondary output and also to the Ground with 2x AV plugs. Such a method means a storage capacitor can be avoided.

Caveat here - my wife is listening to Coast to Coast AM and the audio feed comes out of my PC, on an extension speaker to the bedroom...so i'm on silent regarding Woopy's explanation.


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  Very helpful, Slider.  I'm impressed that you have one of these in operation -- you seem to be "ubiquitous" in your activities!

  So I went to the DS thread at EF and found some things, but that thread is HUGE. This vid by woopy is particularly helpful IMO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnHTtpPvsTQ&feature=youtu.be

This involves a spark coil, and he demonstrates the importance of the ground wire.  The use of AV diodes is clearly important.

  I'm impressed that in woopy's latest work with the Kacher coil, there is no spark coil needed.  I would personally prefer to replicate the latest, simpler version.  The presence of an ANTENNA is still mysterious to me -- but it is reminiscent of Moray's work IMO.

Note that I'm also posting on the main forum, but nobody seems to know much about this stuff -- I'm glad we have Slider here!!!
   
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