Freedom energy? claimed self-running AC motor-generator + load (WITTS...)

[PhysicsProf]

I'll start a thread on this here, also.  IMO, this motor-gen set is reminiscent of the work by MBrownn and HiWater...

  This morning, I came across a very simple AC motor - AC generator set + cap and load, which is shown or claimed to be self-running.
Can it be this simple?  I don't think so, but would like to know.
Comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCbZ3CRWx7I&feature=channel&list=UL 

Below, I've also captured from the vid detail on the AC motor and generator used...  Would like to know where one could buy these.

[mbrownn]

No, Its a hoax 

It is theoretically possible to make a motor power a generator which then powers a the motor by using pulses and recovering the inductive kickback and feeding it back to the source. This is because inductive kickback is a gain, but the truth is the losses in modern motors and generators are far too high to do it.

So to do this we have to make many modifications

1) Use pulsing and inductive kickback as both the pulse and the inductive kickback, both power the motor and give torque, 2 for 1 if you like.

2) Recover the pulse and the inductive kickback in a capacitor so that it can be used again to power the motor, another 2 for 1.

3) Use a transformer action, the output torque of the motor and the output of the transformer, is another 2 for 1.

4) reduce BEMF. A 12v motor is normally running on 6 volts, under full load, because there is 6v of BEMF in the coils. In this condition there is 746w per hp, if we can reduce BEMF to zero we would have 746 watts for 2 hp of mechanical or another 2 for 1.

There is more but you get the idea, none of this is exploited in the above motor as far as I know and motor efficiencies are usually well below 50%.

This is even true for induction motors which we think are 80% efficient. The reason is that an induction motor is taking advantage of the transformer/motor effect in the rotor and getting a 2 for 1 increasing its apparent efficiency. This is the only thing in the motor above that is being exploited. An induction motor has the same type of field coils as a universal motor and so has a similar efficiency, it is the 2 for 1 transformer effect (motor torque plus induced power in the rotor squirrel cage) that doubles it up.

If you look at what we are doing on the Lockridge thread you will see we are using a transformer effect and now we are reducing the BEMF, we have not even started the pulsing or recovery yet.

So now you know what is so special about a Tesla induction motor, it is part of an overunity device. If the coils had enough inductance and were pulsed at 60Hz, 50% duty cycle and if the current was recycled and if the coils were wound as Tesla originally did it, you would have an interesting motor. http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/images/object_images/535x535/10323395.jpg This motor is designed to have reduced BEMF but its inductance is too low to run of 60Hz in this fashion and the problem is higher frequency would require higher motor speed and so higher voltage to get the current required to produce the torque. In reality this motor would have to have many more turns in the coils.

The motor in the video might have sufficient inductance and would not suffer hugely with BEMF (the coil is not at the pole pieces) other than that is what powers the shaded pole. So if the shaded pole was removed and it was pulsed with recovery feeding back to a DC source we could take it a little more seriously although the efficiency would still be too low in my opinion.

These motors are used in the old record decks and in microwaves as fan motors. If you want to test some of my principals one of these motors coils be modified to do so although Im not sure we could make it do what is claimed here and power itself. I might be able to get it into controversial levels of efficiency.

Do you want to do it?

[mbrownn]

I will assume that you do.

First test, Motor Electrical efficiency

Parts needed

Motor
scope
frequency generator
shunt resistor
diode
 
To find our electrical efficiency we pulse the motor with the frequency generator and measure the current with the scope, that is why we will need a shunt resistor to convert the scope to an ammeter. The positive of the frequency generator connects to the scope and shunt resistor in parallel. these then connect to the motor and then the motor to the negative of the frequency generator. The diode needs to connect from the negative of the frequency generator to the positive of the frequency generator.

This will give us an amp trace.

next we do the same test but the scope probes placed across the motor instead of the shunt.

This will give us the volt trace.

from these two traces we can calculate the watts in the pulse and the watts in the inductive kickback and therefore the electrical efficiency of the inductive kickback and the lost power.

Second test, mechanical efficiency


If we measure the torque and speed at the same time we can calculate the mechanical power. If we add the pulse input to the inductive kickback power and compare this to the mechanical power we have the true motor efficiency. If we do not count the input given by the inductive kickback we are not given the true efficiency and our motor would appear to be more efficient.

The next test is energy recovery from inductive kickback.

If we place a capacitor in the diode circuit we can collect the inductive kickback but we are likely to see only half the energy in the capacitor as we measured earlier on the scope. This is because of capacitive losses.

The next test is total recoverable energy.

If we place the capacitor in the negative line back to the frequency generator in series with the diode (the diode across the motor has been removed) we will see that the energy in the capacitor is equal to the energy in the pulse. This is because the losses of the capacitor has consumed half of the energy in the pulse and not the motor. The other half of the energy is given by the inductive kickback. Of course it will be noted that it is not exactly half each and the difference will be the losses in the motor.

We will find that these losses are less than what we measured in the first tests. This is the true loss in the motor. we will find that this loss is less than the mechanical output.

The results of this is problematic to electrical motor theory 746w does not equal 1hp but much more.

We could do this test with almost any motor.

This is just the start as we have not modified anything yet.

[Slider2732]

Good set of tests and criteria.

I took one of those microwave motors apart a couple of weeks back, for the coil of 30'ish gauge wire. On a microwave they power the extractor fan. Lo and behold the video popped up shortly afterward, but I didn't have 2 of them in any case.
The laminations are something of interest and lead to thoughts on flux paths..albeit it's an A/C motor. Perhaps more so, because it was a right royal pain to take each lamination away (about 20 of them) to get the coil off !

One other thought is that of magnetically levitating the rotor, rather than using bearings. The bearing on the one I took apart was awful, the motor would turn about twice with a good hand spin.

[mbrownn]

there is one problem with trying to recover energy from this type of motor, the motor inductively transfers energy to the rotor squirrel cage thus powering it and causing it to turn. If we try to recover inductive kickback from the coil, Bedini style, it may rob the squirrel cage of its energy reducing the mechanical power.

If we use my simplified Gray circuit http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+1.3241202019156522+38+5.0+50%0A178+512+352+544+352+0+2+2.0E-9+3.4E-321+0.05+1000000.0+0.02+20.0%0Av+512+384+512+400+0+2+100.0+5.0+5.0+0.0+0.5%0Al+320+304+320+352+0+0.01+3.132926126721187%0Ar+512+304+320+304+0+0.25%0Av+512+352+320+352+0+0+40.0+11.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Av+832+448+832+288+0+0+40.0+30.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Ac+640+336+640+448+0+1.0E-5+232.4766546761393%0Ad+544+336+640+336+1+0.805904783%0Ad+832+288+544+288+1+0.805904783%0Aw+640+320+640+336+0%0Aw+544+368+544+448+0%0Aw+544+448+640+448+0%0Ad+640+320+544+320+1+0.805904783%0Ar+640+448+832+448+0+0.2%0Ao+5+16+1+291+299.3155353253689+9.765625E-55+0+-1%0Ao+2+16+0+35+320.0+12.8+1+-1%0Ao+2+16+1+291+1197.2621413014756+9.765625E-55+1+-1%0Ao+6+16+0+291+320.0+12.8+2+-1%0Ao+6+16+1+291+1280.0+9.765625E-5+2+-1%0A the effective current is more like half wave rectified AC than a pulse and the chances are it will work better.

This method of supply can be used with almost any motor be it AC or DC. I should try it with an induction motor to see what happens.

[PhysicsProf]

" I should try it with an induction motor to see what happens."
Please do so, Mike!

(Wish I had more funds to support your research at this time...  working on it...)

[mbrownn]

" I should try it with an induction motor to see what happens."
Please do so, Mike!

(Wish I had more funds to support your research at this time...  working on it...)

Me too