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Author Topic: ddwfttw  (Read 4191 times)
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I was deleting some old bookmarks today and found this jewel ;)

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/08/ddwfttw/

I love this article because it is a good lesson in open minded thinking, objectivity and creativity and how supposedly intelligent people can act like little children when confronted with something they personally cannot understand. Then they go so far as to say it is a violation of the laws of physics for no other reason that they cannot understand it, priceless. It's just absolutely mind boggling that so many people who call themselves rational responsible adults let alone experts can act so silly and feel so threatened by something so simple. The whole thing was a complete fiasco and still is in some sense even after it has been proven beyond all shadow of doubt.

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   

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Delightful!

The videos are good too.


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I found this super interesting from a psychological stand point as well. It would seem most everyone's logic completely failed them because they made a few fundamental mistakes. First they presumed that when the wind speed was equal to the ground speed then the apparent wind was zero, that is a wind from the rear at 15mph and a forward speed of 15mph means the wind we feel is zero mph which is true. Then they presumed that the same thing must happen to a balloon blowing in the wind and this well engineered highly advanced craft is just like a balloon, it is just a funny looking balloon that's all :D. Then from this they took a spectacular wild ass leap of faith and concluded that it must generate energy from nothing and be a perpetual mobile and break all the laws of physics.

You see this doesn't sound very logical, not reasonable nor fashionable in fact it sounds quite insane to automatically judge anything they obviously do not understand as a perpetual mobile which breaks the laws of physics. On the other hand the one thing it proves to me is that most people including the experts obviously do not fully understand the concept of "Energy" otherwise they would not be making such simple mistakes then making stupid comments which were critical of the engineers who were in fact the only ones who understood what was going on.

Then there is this quote:
Quote
It’s been a great experience. We’ve gained faith in some and lost faith in others. We were honored to speak at Stanford and San Jose State universities and the St. Francis Yacht Club. We were entertained to learn that a student at UC-Berkeley wanted to invite us to speak there but was refused after the director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory insisted such a vehicle would violate the laws of physics.

I may not be an expert persay but if the director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory cannot understand this simple machine then I believe someone with some common sense should fire his ass and find someone who does. As well we could ask the question again, why does everything people cannot understand have to be a violation of the laws of physics?. It would seem to me the odds that they are incompetent are far greater than the laws of physics being broken.

Then there is the fact that this basically went viral overnight and everyone jumped on the bandwagon in a good old fashion hillbilly burn them at the stake witch hunt kind of way. They were harassed, ridiculed and belittled then when they finally proved what should have obvious from the start all was silent. No sorry I called you all those vile names, no sorry I harassed you, no sorry I spammed all those posts because I was absolutely sure I was right when in fact I'm just a plain old horses ass. In fact only a few people had the integrity to say they were wrong which I find a little disturbing.

You will find the only thing perpetual here is the fact that this abhorrent pattern of behavior has been repeating throughout our history. It is not extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof it is judge them without the facts and belittle them until they submit to our way of thinking.
It's a whacky world out there, lol.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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I am amazed these folks are still being ridiculed  >:(

Do the real idiots (example: LLNL) think velocity and energy are the same?

Are they unaware that a tacking sailboat can travel faster than the wind?

Very sad.
   

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But going straight downwind faster than the wind
is still difficult to grasp.  Once it is understood
what causes the propeller to accelerate the craft
to twice the windspeed (and potentially even more)
then acceptance will follow.

Has anyone yet come up with an easily understood
explanation?


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It's turtles all the way down
A surfer can go faster across the horizon than the speed of the incoming wave

A watermelon seed squeezed between the fingers can shoot out faster than the movement of the fingers.

A compression wave might be the answer.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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The only point I would make is that one man asked a simple question that few if any had ever considered and dispite the fact that everyone else knew it was impossible, dispite the fact that everyone bet he was stupid for trying he persevered until he found his own answer. He was right and almost everyone else on this planet was wrong.
To me this is real science and not that BS propaganda the supposed experts like to peddle, it takes one person who is willing to commit to one idea they truely believe in until they find their own answer, one person to change the world.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   

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But the craft is going straight downwind,
not at an angle to the wind as a sailboat
does when on tack.

And the propeller;  at first it is spun by the
force of the wind.  Then, as the craft gains
speed, it is spun in the same direction by
the movement of the craft.  What is the
direction of thrust from the propeller?


We really need a clear and simple explanation
of how this thing works.  Seeing is one thing
but understanding is something else again.


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The vehicle is traveling directly downwind but the propeller is tacking at an angle to the wind.

Instead of using a fixed sail and having to cut across the wind they have a rotating set of sails and travel with the wind.

BTW:
The vehicle has a different mode of propulsion. It can go directly upwind slower than the wind. In that case, the propeller drives the wheels.
It should be easier for folks to envision the vehicle in that mode.
   

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Quote from: WaveWatcher
The vehicle is traveling directly downwind but the
propeller is tacking at an angle to the wind.

Instead of using a fixed sail and having to cut across
the wind they have a rotating set of sails and travel
with the wind.

Aye, that makes sense so long as the craft is moving
more slowly than the wind.  But once the craft is
propelled to a velocity faster than the wind how is
its propeller thrusting?


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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I never did understand that mental stumbling block.

The velocity of the craft is what we focus on but that velocity isn't important. We can directly use the velocity of a bullet, plus other factors, to determine the energy used to propel it.

The vehicle isn't the bullet. It is the velocity and leverage of the propeller that matters to directly determine the energy used to propel the craft to a certain velocity.

For me, it is like saying you can never increase your elevation above ground level, even though using a ladder, because the ground raises to the height of your feet as you climb.

The wind is on the short end of the lever but has enough force to make the difference. The vehicle is on the long end. A short movement by the wind creates a longer travel by the vehicle (over time).
As the propeller RPM increases it creates a higher effective wind speed (more air pressure below the 'wing' <behind the vehicle> and less air pressure above the 'wing' <in front of the vehicle>).

The propulsion energy is from the wind. I would think that the effective wind speed <as seen by increased air pressure> behind the propeller is much greater than the 2.8 times wind speed achieved.
   
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Why are we saying this vehicle is going "down" wind?   I'm confused.  I thought it is going up-wind, or against the wind.  I remember those threadmill videos, pretty cool! 
   
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---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   

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OK, now I get it.  Brilliant!  Ingenious!

Watching the video again closely one notices that
the propeller isn't "windmilling" but rather, is forced
to rotate such that it tends to produce forward thrust
in the direction of craft movement.  I missed this
important detail initially.

AllCanadian,

Thanks for that link about the Ruler.  The different
terminology for thread spools is something I'd not
heard before.

Now, if there was some way to transfer these concepts
to electrical energy...  Hmmm...


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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@Dumped

I'm glad you got it and I wanted to explain it earlier however it's always best to let a person work through it themselves if possible. I must have got lucky because when I watched the first video of the ddwfttw craft it clicked within a few minutes and I was thinking you have got to be kidding me this is so cool and so easy. The problem is that it is just too easy but in an abstract way so the mind either tends to automatically find overly complex ways to make it work or goes into denial, lol.

AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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