Leedskalnin's non-phenomenon

[exnihiloest]

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Leedskalnin_%22Perpetual_Motion_Holder%22_(PMH)_Bond_Effect

Pesn "a crazy phenomenon. Two blocks of flat steel (soft iron?) with a small channel between them, just large enough to run an 18-gauge, insulated wire through, become bonded to each other when a current from a car battery is very briefly run through the wire."

"crazy"?  
The magnetic field encircling the conducting wire magnetizes the two blocks and make them attracting one another like permanent magnets.

Pesn "The bond doesn't seem to be magnetic, as the bonded blocks don't exhibit any external magnetism, and there is barely any magnetism after the halves are sheered apart."

The wide thickness of the blocks confines the magnetic flux inside and prevents it from escaping. And that is all the easier, the blocks constitute a closed path like a toroid. The remanence maintains the blocks bonded (and also possible molecular attraction if the surfaces are highly polished).

Obviously it's not soft iron, but the guy doesn't even know what he is doing. The dumbest is the name of the great discovery: "Perpetual Motion Holder"! There is no motion, and an "holder" requires zero energy, a latch is sufficient  

Once again, we see a pretentious ignorant who believes he is a new Tesla because he is too stupid to understand trivial phenomena that generations of scientists have understood before him, and too stupid to understand he is really stupid.  Sorry for this language but the bullshits of morons of the free energy tire me out.

[Farrah Day]

But Exn, his dad is an 'atomic clock physicist', so it must be right - the race is now on to be the first to patent the biggest breakthrough since sliced bread: the Perpetual Motion Cup-Holder! 

More moronic rubbish promoted by the incredibly gifted ignoramus that is Sterling Allen.

[BEP]

Ex,

The PMH is only one of many a "crazy phenomenon" having simple explanations. Indeed, it is only a magnetic latch. The field lines tend to take the path of best conduction and also tend to close upon themselves. Finely machined surfaces are really not a requirement but do help.

Another one having the same action are the mystical "space boots"  

I recall the host of another free energy forum once claiming that anyone figuring out the space boots and PMH would have the answer to free energy production. I must have had the answer to free energy then but don't remember what it was  

SA must proclaim these things as 'special' or he would have little to write.

[exnihiloest]

@Farah and ww

Thank you for your replies, it is reassuring to see that humour and good common sense are still operating here! (except on the side of the divine troll soliloquizing in his locked thread).

[ion]

The divine troll had this to say:

This experiment can be repeated and can be confirmed with different make and Model oscilloscopes.  Will this type of experiment confirm Overunity by itself?

Should every overunity Claim be verified by such an experiment when possible?  Should we trust the Oscilloscopes?  

Now he may be getting close to the source of his alleged OU problem.

A computing oscilloscope will only yield results according to the quality level of the oscilloscope and skill of the user. Garbage in= garbage out.

Even a very fine tool in the hands of the unskilled will yield erroneous results.

We have often suggested that he use other tried and true methods as a double check, but that might mean "game over".

[muDped]

Education and Understanding come to most of
us rather slowly.

The process is complicated by the tendency of
the mind to cling to erroneous conclusions which
are thought to be truth.  Giving up those beliefs
can be a very painful experience.  Having to admit
to others that one has been wrong is, for some,
more than they are able to bear.

Even those who are essentially good and honest
can be easily deceived.  But Truth eventually has
a way of making itself known.

[giantkiller]

PMH when broken apart lights an LED linked across the gap even months later. So the magnetic flux runs around the loop indefinately until the magnetic current is broken and then allowed to run through an electric conductor. We have seen this.

Entertaining at least.

Remember this: Humility dictates your soap boxes are empty.

[exnihiloest]

..
Having to admit to others that one has been wrong is, for some, more than they are able to bear.
...

Here is an easy way to avoid to be wrong or to drastically reduce the probability:

• never affirm anything, just precisely describe what you found
• ask others if the effect is known or where is a possible mistake
• make a detailed schematic and duplicate yourself your device
  
• in case you confirm your results, propose your schematic for a third party duplication
• after successful third party duplication, search for conventional explanations from academic science, with others if you don't master it
• claim your novelty (only the facts), especially if all possible explanations from academic science have been discarded
• eventually propose hypotheses. It's not dishonorable to be wrong with hypotheses. Unlike false affirmations, wrong hypotheses are normal processes in science.
• in any case, an extraordinary claim needs an extraordinary proof: never claim overunity without having a self-sustaining device!

[exnihiloest]

...
A computing oscilloscope will only yield results according to the quality level of the oscilloscope and skill of the user. Garbage in= garbage out.

Even a very fine tool in the hands of the unskilled will yield erroneous results.
...

I couldn't say it better.

The unconscious incompetence allied to the pretentiousness is the main cause of absurd overunity claims (Dunning-Kruger effect).

[Allcanadian]

@Exn

Once again, we see a pretentious ignorant who believes he is a new Tesla because he is too stupid to understand trivial phenomena that generations of scientists have understood before him, and too stupid to understand he is really stupid.  Sorry for this language but the bullshits of morons of the free energy tire me out.

Pretty strong words, I see this a little differently as I normally do. The ignorant accept what others tell them as the truth without proving the matter for themselves. The ignorant accept things as they are ignoring all other possibilities which is why they seldom if ever make any progress.
Now unlike most when I see something like this I test the theory for myself and yes I did test this phenomena many years ago. Make no mistake this is a real phenomena and in fact it is a very precise one. As well most would say what good is this phenomena, well for one I designed a solenoid which requires no power to remain in the open or closed position unlike normal solenoids. At work I would estimate we have over 5000 solenoid valves in operation and every single one draws power (1-10w) simply to maintain a field. I hope you can appreciate how naive our experts actually are because over 100 years ago Ampere stated categorically -- It costs nothing to maintain a field only to create one.

So why is it all the self-proclaimed experts such as yourself have yet to truly understand that it costs nothing to maintain a field in practice and why is almost all our technology is based on the dissipation of energy simply to maintain a magnetic field.

Here is how the phenomena works, one element (an iron core) cannot maintain a field as the field is singular and mainfest's externally. Two elements can maintain a field because each field reinforces the other, there are two fields not one acting through a boundary condition. You see one field cannot change without effecting the other because there are two and a field cannot change without a change in energy state thus for the conservation of energy to hold the field must hold because there are two fields present. It is mind boggling that so many have dismissed something so useful and have yet to fully understand something so simple.

It is actually kind of comical that you have just completely dismissed a phenomena which could save industry billions of dollars a year but then again I'm not a scientist, just a simple Engineer.

AC

[exnihiloest]

...
you have just completely dismissed a phenomena which could save industry billions of dollars a year
...

Prove it experimentally, or learn physics!   

[BEP]

AC,

Why would you re-invent a bi-stable magnetic latching valve when these have been around since the 40's and possibly earlier?

The same question for relays? Magnet latching relays were used by telephone companies in the early part of the last century. -- Just checked.... I actually have some in stock and they are available from almost all relay manufacturers.

The PMH is just an unmagnetized horseshoe magnet with a keeper bar and coils to magnetize it. The only thing interesting about it is the number of people who think it is something special. The better the surface to surface contact between the keeper bar and the horseshoe magnet the longer it will retain magnetization.

The light blinks when the bar is removed because that action causes a change in the magnetic field stored in the horseshoe which creates a moment of induction.

Not trying to start a fight. I just don't see anything special about it.

[Chef]

AC,

Why would you re-invent a bi-stable magnetic latching valve when these have been around since the 40's and possibly earlier?

The same question for relays? Magnet latching relays were used by telephone companies in the early part of the last century. -- Just checked.... I actually have some in stock and they are available from almost all relay manufacturers.

Because there isn't any subject in physics, on which AC didn't done extensive work in the past! It does not matter if it's already invented, he will just invent it again anytime when he wants!

It seems this God, doesn't like us  all equally! 

[Allcanadian]

@Wavewatcher

The same question for relays? Magnet latching relays were used by telephone companies in the early part of the last century. -- Just checked.... I actually have some in stock and they are available from almost all relay manufacturers.

The PMH is just an unmagnetized horseshoe magnet with a keeper bar and coils to magnetize it. The only thing interesting about it is the number of people who think it is something special. The better the surface to surface contact between the keeper bar and the horseshoe magnet the longer it will retain magnetization.

I would agree 100% and I understand the phenomena perfectly well, moreso than most everyone here including Exn because I have actually tested the parameters. There is nothing special here other than the simple fact that one can produce a holding force and no external energy is required after the initial impulse. What I was saying was --- Why would we power a solenoid valve ,not a latching relay, to hold it in position when we do not have to?, of the thousands of solenoid valves I have seen not one utilizes this well known phenomena .... why?. The issue here highlights Exn's position, he may understand it perfectly well he just has literally no idea how to apply it practically hence to him it is stupid. This is why inventors and engineers look at utilizing known phenomena such as this in new ways to make things more efficient rather than just saying people who re-examine it are stupid.

@Exn

Prove it experimentally, or learn physics!

I don't have to prove anything as it is well established in science as to what is happening and you agreed with it which makes me wonder what in the hell your post is about. Did you even read my post?, lol.

Ok does anyone even know what a freaking solenoid valve is, does anyone have any idea what I'm even referring to?

AC

[BEP]

Ok does anyone even know what a freaking solenoid valve is, does anyone have any idea what I'm even referring to?

When I spoke about a bi-stable magnetic latching valve I was referring to a solenoid valve that uses permanent magnets to maintain the open or closed position.

In two coil models the solenoids are used to select open or closed via a pulse signal. In the single coil models pulses are also used and sent in via the 'actuate' wire or the 'reset' wire.

I know exactly what they are. I ordered hundreds of them replaced in a heat treat plant because they fail constantly in a high heat environment.

[muDped]

I know exactly what they are. I ordered hundreds of
them replaced in a heat treat plant because they fail
constantly in a high heat environment.

What sort of failures do you encounter with those?

Is it electrical (coils), magnetic,  or the valve itself?

[BEP]

What sort of failures do you encounter with those?

Is it electrical (coils), magnetic,  or the valve itself?

I gave that job up some time ago but the failures had to do with both the permanent magnet elements loosing strength (for the long-cycle types) and the remanence was poor for the short-cycle types without permanent magnets in the high temperature environment.

If it wasn't for the plumbing constantly shaking or vibrating the failure rates would have been lower.

The plumbing problems were corrected later. The customer would spring for solenoid valves after I was hired to find their 'valve control problem' but didn't wish to spend the money for all the specialized plumbing changes also required.

[muDped]

...the permanent magnet elements loosing strength...

Aye, it happens.  Back in the early '90s the Electricians
brought a clamp-on Ammeter to our shop for repair.
It had an analog meter movement wherein the meter
magnet had somehow lost all of its permanent
magnetism.

I removed the magnet from the meter and attempted
to re-magnetize it but couldn't.  The metal remained
magnetic but simply would not hold any magnetism,
not even a slight residual.  I'd never seen anything like
that before.

[BEP]

I remember those monstrosities 

You could drop the ones made by Westinghouse on the concrete floor. The case wouldn't break but the magnet would go dead 

[ion]

We all participated in talks of bistable magnetic latches here:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1044.25

From AC:

Ok does anyone even know what a freaking solenoid valve is, does anyone have any idea what I'm even referring to?

Speaking of "freaking" chill out AC, you are starting to sound like Gene Wilder in "Young Dr. Frankenstein". Or is that "Frankenstein"?

Yes some of us know what a solenoid valve is, and some of us even know what a bistable solenoid valve with magnetic latching action is and how it operates.

Now fancy that!

[exnihiloest]

...
Here is how the phenomena works, one element (an iron core) cannot maintain a field as the field is singular and mainfest's externally. Two elements can maintain a field because each field reinforces the other
...

Where is the evidence here that it is iron?! not steel? or any else ferromagnetic metal with remanence?  
You give explanations for imaginary setup, ignoring the facts or inventing them so that they fit your fancy.

...
Two elements can maintain a field because each field reinforces the other
...

Fields don't influence one another. It's a common error given everywhere for explaining OU devices that moreover don't work.
Fields simply add. Even magnetic fields in non linear media simply add, once the permeability correction due to the fields resultant is done.
You should revise electromagnetism.

...
@Exn
I don't have to prove anything
...

It's clear that your speech rarely fits the intellectual requirements of science, logic and rationality. Thanks for having confirmed.

[Allcanadian]

@Ion

Speaking of "freaking" chill out AC, you are starting to sound like Gene Wilder in "Young Dr. Frankenstein". Or is that "Frankenstein

Maybe a little clarity may help, I was talking about magnetic induction and residual magnetism and how it can be used efficiently as a holding force not requiring additional energy after the initial energizing. This is simple to understand and explained in most grade school textbooks and then Exn and others took a miraculous leap of faith and believed I was talking about overunity so they started criticizing what I was saying without actually understanding what I was saying.

I am talking about the simple phenomena of magnetic induction and residual magnetism between two ferromagnetic elements , nothing more.

AC

[TinMan]

@Ion
Maybe a little clarity may help, I was talking about magnetic induction and residual magnetism and how it can be used efficiently as a holding force not requiring additional energy after the initial energizing. This is simple to understand and explained in most grade school textbooks and then Exn and others took a miraculous leap of faith and believed I was talking about overunity so they started criticizing what I was saying without actually understanding what I was saying.

I am talking about the simple phenomena of magnetic induction and residual magnetism between two ferromagnetic elements , nothing more.

AC

Hi AC
It is a very interesting effect,and most who claim to know how it actualy works or what happens to achieve the effect-dont realy know at all.
Magnetic field's exist in all magnetic material,there just scrambled.

You can take two flat pieces of a magnetic material,grind a groove in them so as you can run a single straight wire between them-then apply a quick sharp pulse of current through the wire ,and the two flat pieces of(lets say steel) will become stuck together.
The cool thing is,you can take a compass and circle the two plate's-and there is no magnetic field detected any where around the plate's.

[Mark Snoswell]

I haven't seen anyone pointing out the fundamental lesson from this standard magnetic effect...

It highlights the very long decay of macroscopic magnetic polarization -- as opposed to short time constants you see with decaying current loops due to IR losses...

Let me put it another way -- with superconductors we could set up an equivalent demonstration utilizing current loops. We cant set up an equivalent demonstration with ordinary conductors as the IR losses will kill the effects in very short time...

So reflect on the fact that this demonstration is yet another example of the "quantum" nature of ferromagnetism... Quantum is in quotes because, although it's commonly applied to ferromagnetic effects it's a misleading term and obscures real understanding of the underlying processes.

The conclusion I hope you are all drawing from this is that pumping of ferromagnetic effects (by say pressure waves) is an interesting thing to do as you are modulating something the is intimately linked to the underlying quantum fabric of our universe -- expressed at a macroscopic scale we can easily engineer.

[exnihiloest]

...
You can take two flat pieces of a magnetic material,grind a groove in them so as you can run a single straight wire between them-then apply a quick sharp pulse of current through the wire ,and the two flat pieces of(lets say steel) will become stuck together.
...

Conventional electromagnetism. The current magnetizes the two pieces, therefore they attract one another. They remain stucked a certain time due to remanence.The duration of the effect depends on the coercitivity of the material: if it is weak, the material self-demagnetizes (http://www.datwiki.net/page.php?id=7018). You can check it by using soft iron (almost no remanence), for example iron plates from transformer cores, and verifying that the effect disappears almost as soon as the current is stopped.