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Author Topic: 3 Phase Pulse Motor Circuit.  (Read 18147 times)
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Well as this forum is about overunity research,i didn't think a pulse motorthat i don't think will be OU) would fit in anywhere. So for this reason i decided that we could look at a good circuit to drive it insted.
So this is why it is in this section.
Now the first video(up soon) shows the alternator i will be using,but the second video is something you may want to see.There is an effect happening that is unusual,and i don't understand as to why it is happening.

Anyway,i will need some help with the drive circuit,as i want it to be very robust and able to handle a far bit of power.
   
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So here is the alternator i will be using for the build.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxeqLjU_1F0
   
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Here is the video that shows a strange effect within the rotor magnetic fields???.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5nrlGpCB9I
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Does your screwdriver have some residual magnetism? If so you may be  operating at just the right current to "null" the attraction of one polarity. Be sure your screwdriver is completely demagnetized.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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@ ION
Tested the screwdriver for magnetism-wouldnt even pick up a small screw,or show any sign's of attraction.Put a compuss close to it,and the needle kept pointing north.
As i lifted the P/in to the electromagnet coil,a field started to develop on both ends. At 2.4 volt's 821mA,there is a strong field at both ends-either polarity.
So once again i lowered the input to 1.7 volt's,and once again one field disappeared??.
With the power disconnected,there is no residual field at either end of the rotor plates.

Anyway,i think it time to build up a circuit for our pulse motor. So all ideas welcome.
I'm thinking npn transistors(2n3055),wether single or darlington pair.
   
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All so,looking at the way the fingers on the rotor are shaped,i dont think this would be as efficient as it could be.Seems to me that the field would be stronger over 1 half of the stator coil,than it would be over the other half-as the fingers are a triangle shape.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
All so,looking at the way the fingers on the rotor are shaped,i dont think this would be as efficient as it could be.Seems to me that the field would be stronger over 1 half of the stator coil,than it would be over the other half-as the fingers are a triangle shape.


It won't be as efficient as a well designed DC motor with rectangular pole pieces. Everything is a tradeoff. Super efficient PM brushless DC motors can be purchased or salvaged from industrial scrap.

The rating tags on your alternators are probably "cold" ratings, the continuous run ratings would probably be a lot lower by about half.
see here:     http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/alternator-specification-basics-2532.html

If you take half the cold watts then divide that by 745.7, you will get an approximate continuous horsepower rating when used as a motor.

First alternator=1920/2 /745.7=1.29 HP
Second alternator=2800/2 /745.7=1.87 HP

Next step would be to compare the price and weight of the alternators with off the shelf DC motors to see if we are "in the ballpark"
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/dc-permanent-magnet-motors/dc-motors/motors/ecatalog/N-lsj

specifically: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-DC-Motor-4Z378?xi=xi

So about 36 lbs per horsepower and $770 USD makes the alternator project look more inviting.

We see that this particular motor will have an input power of 900 Watts to develop 1 HP so it is about 83% efficient.

Here is a motor with a peak efficiency rating of 97%
http://www.synchrony.com/products/high-speed-motors-generators/novagen-novadrive-100-oil-less-drive-train.aspx

Engineers constantly strive for improved efficiencies in their motor designs. This translates into huge savings for the end user.
The low end purchase price sensitive consumer marketplace concentrates more on lowest cost motors rather than high efficiency designs which are initially costly, but pay back over the years.

See some of the videos available for advanced motor designs e.g.
http://www.industry.usa.siemens.com/drives/us/en/energy-efficiency/Pages/EnergyEfficiency.aspx?tabcardname=Motor%20Energy%20Efficiency&stc=usidt120008&sp_source=usidt120008


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Here is another video of a fellow working along these lines. Notice he built a compact little driver board that does the job.

http://www.youtube.com/user/renasom3/videos

and a forum discussing using alternators with ebike controllers, and a lot to learn on the subject:

http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?22399-Auto-Alternators-As-Motors

someone is actually selling a manual howto: http://www.alternatorconversions.com/index.htm

and a kit here: http://www.industrial-scientific.com/special_products_division/alternator_drive_technology_kit.htm
« Last Edit: 2013-09-14, 17:11:37 by ION »


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Thanks for all the links ION,some good stuff in there.I actualy have a 40 amp,3 phase controller from an RC car-wonder if that will work?.
Rated at 40 amp's 7.2 volt's. But i know they add extra cells to the battery pack's,as my son has many of these RC car's.
I would much rather make my own though,for a 12 - 24 volt system.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Thanks for all the links ION,some good stuff in there.I actualy have a 40 amp,3 phase controller from an RC car-wonder if that will work?.
Rated at 40 amp's 7.2 volt's. But i know they add extra cells to the battery pack's,as my son has many of these RC car's.
I would much rather make my own though,for a 12 - 24 volt system.

The three phase RC controller can be a pre-driver to some external high power FET's or IGBT's or BJT's. I would not risk using it directly as RC motors are pretty small and you may quickly exceed the 40 amp rating. If you have a schematic, application notes or wiring diagram of the RC controller it will help us to come up with a suitable booster drive (and protection) arrangement. This could be a good way to go as all of the PWM and phase control circuitry is already in the unit. Need to know if the controller output is single ended or bridged configuration. A typical drive motor schematic would help.

You also need to find out if your alternator is wired delta,  wye or wye with center leg connection and which configurations the controller is designed to drive.

An electric bike or electric auto motor controller might be a better choice. There are numerous papers on the web for this.

Note: While all of this stuff is fun to play with, I highly recommend getting way up the curve by studying the latest advances in motor speed control and motor design especially if you want to go where no man has yet gone. It's all out there.
« Last Edit: 2013-09-16, 19:02:44 by ION »


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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This is supposedly the biggest bang for the buck in auto conversions ,almost 5 grand at 71 hp all inclusive except the batteries.
allegedly a price breakthru

http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=AC50Kit

thx
Chet
   
Group: Guest
@ION
I will see if i can dig up a schematic for the RC controller.Also the alternator is wired without a center leg,as per the picture below-only with multiple delta configurations in parallel.
I also think i may have some heavy duty IGBT's from a tig welder,down in the work shop.I will get those numbers for you,so as you cant take a look,and see if they would be suitable.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Here is an interesting video where the fellow is using 2 motors, one as drive, the other is the load, as I recommended some time ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n16nrkDgMSA&feature=youtu.be

Enthusiasts have made a lot of progress in 3 phase motor control.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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