"Self-looping SMOT" claimed (steel ball on tear-drop-shape track + magnets)

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.09, 18:47:04

Discussion began yesterday at OU.com. Vid up NOW, down within 24 hours -

QuoteElecar: This video will self destruct in 24 hours

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--3rugO_RMg&feature=youtu.be

Suggest you at least watch the vid, and the description of the tests on this thread:
http://www.overunity.com/13879/building-a-self-looping-smot/msg372930/topicseen/#new

Looks like it works... ??

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.09, 18:49:10

OK, is there a trick? I don't see one.
Attached shows the prototype and describes the 3 tests in the video.

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.09, 21:17:16

He uses C8 ceramic magnets. 1" x 1.5" x 0.25" (40 of them). Any ideas where to buy these?

Chet K · 2013.10.09, 23:17:42

Steve
Would you like me to invite him to a build /replication thread? [off the main page]

Chet

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.10, 11:50:51

I think this is a very good idea, Chet, where he could benefit from some help and from replications, yet not giving it out to a lot of anonymous lurkers as one has at OU.com.

Note: my username at ou.com is JouleSeeker, and Elecar has responded to me by that aka.

Chet K · 2013.10.17, 15:03:39

Steve
I did correspond with Elecar ,he is /was interested in assisting with a replication of the "effect"
at this Forum,However he did mention since he started discussing this at OU he has gone from
"talking" to a toy company into Signing an NDA.

So while he will show how the Effect can be replicated he cannot show the Full Monty at the moment.
As you are aware he is presently showing this at OU.com so it would perhaps be redundant to do that here now?
we shall see...
On another Note Brad had mentioned a looping SMOT Clip [vid]which he had to share and most likely will when his internet gets back on line [hopefully later today].

Thx
Chet

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.17, 15:20:25

Hmmmm... Elecar sign an NDA {sigh}... IMHO, the real "prize" goes to the first to get a self-runner out in the public domain, to benefit/bless people's lives. So I'm hoping the NDA does not result in the SMOT progress being squashed... But maybe the company will move quickly??

Yes, I think permanent magnets hold a key... somehow.

I look forward to seeing Brad's vid that you mentioned! And also to this new fellow and a new path that may get SOMETHING out to the public "first".

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.25, 05:09:17

I like this guy's replication, 3 days ago, with magnets and LEGO's!
1 cm rise over a short distance, he notes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ozUBkuru6I

Note my comment to him... wytdyk

Trying to contact him. Chet, can we get this guy over here, private discussion? would like to help him, where we can!
The other fellow (Shaw) has HUGE magnet NEEDS -- $2,113 needed he says. ouch. Because Shaw has a 3 or 4 foot long ramp, while this guy wytdyk does it in a few inches for 1 cm rise he says...

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.25, 05:40:28

Now here's an interesting rarity -- from the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D6D4UseA8o
it appears this "guy" is female -- a "mama". Listen closely to the vid, and note the hand also.
What do you think? Can you make out the language of the child?

Itsu · 2013.10.25, 09:52:08

Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013.10.25, 05:40:28
Now here's an interesting rarity -- from the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D6D4UseA8o
it appears this "guy" is female -- a "mama". Listen closely to the vid, and note the hand also.
What do you think? Can you make out the language of the child?

Hi Steve,

i am 99% sure the little girl is talking Dutch (she has to go to the toilet :-) ).

But i think the hand is from a guy and the "mama" is somewhere in the background.

So wytdyk is probably Dutch or Belgium.

Regards Kees

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.25, 18:03:59

Thanks, Itsu. I'll leave this as an open question. Good work by the person in any case!

Over at OU,

QuoteTinman:
Quote

A smot dosnt have to loop to show work being done.We would only have to show the ball come to rest outside the smot [i.e., outside any magnetic-field trap],at a higher level than it started at.

my reply:

Quote
Right (as I've noted before). And to me such an observation -- I'm still waiting for a solid observation of this -- would strongly evidence that a previously-untapped source of ENERGY is entering the picture. No laws of physics would then be violated, just some people's opinions that "there are no more sources of energy to be found."

TinMan · 2013.10.26, 09:35:41

Well i did reply here,but my reply has vanished?
Test,Test,Test

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.27, 03:19:30

Tinman:

QuoteQuote

A smot dosnt have to loop to show work being done.We would only have to show the ball come to rest outside the smot [i.e., outside any magnetic-field trap],at a higher level than it started at.

Previously I agreed, but a few hours later I thought of a potential problem with that.
Consider two disk neos. One on desk with N up, the other PUSHED onto the first with N down. Now let go -- and the second flies UPWARD, to a higher level than initial height.
It was in pushing the neos together that potential energy was stored -- like squeezing a spring. Let go, and you get kinetic energy - and in this case, a RISE in height.

Self-looping for hours gets around the problem of a hand PUSHING the object into place, i.e., storing energy using muscle power.

Count me in for a donation on your SMOT prize, Chet, IF it achieves self-looping...

TinMan · 2013.10.27, 04:19:26

Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013.10.27, 03:19:30
Tinman:
Previously I agreed, but a few hours later I thought of a potential problem with that.
Consider two disk neos. One on desk with N up, the other PUSHED onto the first with N down. Now let go -- and the second flies UPWARD, to a higher level than initial height.
It was in pushing the neos together that potential energy was stored -- like squeezing a spring. Let go, and you get kinetic energy - and in this case, a RISE in height.

Self-looping for hours gets around the problem of a hand PUSHING the object into place, i.e., storing energy using muscle power.

Count me in for a donation on your SMOT prize, Chet, IF it achieves self-looping...

I dont see it as being the same Steve,as you wouldnt be applying any sort of force to the ball-just let it roll into the ramp by itself.What you are saying ,is a force must first be applied to gain a difference in hight. But with what im saying,no force has to be applied to start the action.
The ball is placed on the ramp befor the magnets-the ball is drawn into the smot by the magnets,and raised in hight.then the ball is allowed to drop out of the SMOT,by means of gravitational force-no force is applied to the ball at the start to gain hight-unlike your setup,where you have to apply a force to gain hight.

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.27, 05:02:21

Quote from: tinman on 2013.10.27, 04:19:26
I dont see it as being the same Steve,as you wouldnt be applying any sort of force to the ball-just let it roll into the ramp by itself.What you are saying ,is a force must first be applied to gain a difference in hight.

NO, I'm not saying that such a force MUST first be applied, only that it is difficult to rule out that one HAS applied such a force (even unknowingly).
But it one gets to self-looping, such (inadvertent-pushing) concerns go away because it goes around and around with no hand "pushing".

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.27, 05:05:29

Tinman, the fellow you linked to is with the Air Force, and is getting - well, you be the judge if this is harassment or suppressin of any kind:

QuoteI also forgot to tell you that I was also told that if I describe how to build it, I can become in trouble legally with the Air Force, and they could prosecute. I try to be as careful as possible on my YouTube website, so far it has not been removed. If I say the wrong thing I know I could be in trouble, I am doing the best I can, as I cannot afford to protect its design legally and I never thought my curiosity and abilities would get me into trouble, when I only wanted to do good . Now, I am just doing everything I can to protect myself and to not aggravate the A.F. nor get into trouble and to prove to everyone that I am not lying about this and that it does work. I Just asked them for help, I thought they would be impressed and support me, I don't know what I did wrong. Very respectfully - Technical Sergeant, USAF

(name witheld)

Seems to be a clear example of (you name it).

TinMan · 2013.10.27, 13:25:28

Mmm-well I'm not to sure on all that suppression stuff Steve???-seems way to much like the boy who cried wolf to often.

Anyway,in regards to MH's comment that a steel ball cant be repelled by a magnetic field-well my test have shown that no to be true. So below is a video of one of those test,that clearly show the steel balls being repelled by a PM field.
Im not going to post the video over at OU,as sometimes i feel the big guns should do some of there own testing,and see for them self that sometimes the normal just doesn't apply.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzvy1VgdXDo

PhysicsProf · 2013.10.28, 04:59:50

Nice vid, Tinman.
1. What are you using for a bearing/ spinning rotor? home-made?

2. Lets say the balls are all North.
Now add a small bar magnet (suspended, fixed in the lab frame) with N at the arrowhead. This will push and pull the nearby balls, so as to cause clockwise CW rotation - at first... Will it continue? (probably not)

Could you give this a try?
Thanks.

TinMan · 2013.10.28, 09:04:45

Im useing the bearing head from an old hard drive-they work very well.
I have disasembled the device,so cant do any more testing with it-parts were needed for other projects lol.

TinMan · 2013.10.28, 13:06:40

Here is another lift and drop smot.The difference with this one,is that the ball actually starts outside the magnet array. So it go's from having no potential energy(sitting still) to rolling up the ramp,then drops out of the ramp,and continues along the track. Although the last half of the track is lower,the ball is still moving when it drops out of the ramp,and passes the level point of it's starting position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VN6KWM8Rbc