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Author Topic: Sine to Square  (Read 57784 times)
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Here is the video that shows the squaring of the wave.  The waveform is compared to an aircore motor to show that there is definitely a squaring that occurs.  This phenomena is in line with what Erfinder said in this thread but I remember seeing a live demonstration he showed where the wave morphed from a sine to a square in a smooth transition.  I'm not sure how he accomplished that but I haven't finished fully building a test fixture either.  Attached is a picture of the welding-rod-core coil used to create the square wave.

https://youtu.be/dY_Vfd2MYME

Dave
   
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I think this effect is easy to explain and like most effects relating to FE we need to pay close attention to first principals.

For example, suppose we have a changing magnetic field which induces coil A causing a current flow to the right. Coil A >>>>>>
The same magnetic field also induces an identical coil B causing a current flow to the left. <<<<<< Coil B.

Now if we connect coils A and B bucking or in series opposition we get Coil A>>>>>> <<<<<< Coil B.

We can see that when two potentials or currents are trying to move in opposition in the same wire they come to rest. The "forces" balance and it is the force acting over a distance which is the cause of any motion or current.

The problem is many like to generalize using general terminology. They forget a voltage is actually a "difference in potential" and the potential the electric field strength acting on something. For example, one end of a wire is at -500 potential and the other end -400. Some might say both potentials are negative so nothing happens. However the "difference" in potential is the real force acting on the free electrons which determines the direction of current.

So we should not generalize and pay more attention to first principals and all the small details. I find FE easier than most because I ignore generalizations. I only look at what's happening on the particle/field level. Many only see voltage and current on a wire while I see billions of particles being acted on by magnetic and electric fields of force having a gradient of force causing motion in some particles. Same thing but a very different perspective.

Generalizing is the main reason why most fail in this field of technology, imo.

AC


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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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We could also go further with the logic of this effect...

So I know of countless ways in which I could modify any kind of wave form into another. It could be primitive LC circuits, something like synchronous or active rectification or in the future AI controlled electric/magnetic field control. Makes no difference as the goal is to modify the waveform.

The critical mistake is in thinking this effects the total energy of the system in which case it does not. This is little more than the "conversion" of one form of energy into another. This is not the conversion of a form of energy which can "add" to the system, key word really important, only thing that actually matters, "add" to the system.

Problem is, as an actual expert in energy and energy conversion, 99% of most people fail to understand even basic energy concepts. It's kind of comical, ask a friend "what is energy" or "what is a field" and there is this blank expression staring off into space. Nothing, nada, were pulling a blank, nobody is home, nothing. This should have been the first clue very few seem to have a clue.

Not rocket science, ENERGY dictates everything. If we understand the concept of ENERGY the conversion of energy isn't as big a problem.

AC


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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   

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We could also go further with the logic of this effect...

So I know of countless ways in which I could modify any kind of wave form into another. It could be primitive LC circuits, something like synchronous or active rectification or in the future AI controlled electric/magnetic field control. Makes no difference as the goal is to modify the waveform.

The critical mistake is in thinking this effects the total energy of the system in which case it does not. This is little more than the "conversion" of one form of energy into another. This is not the conversion of a form of energy which can "add" to the system, key word really important, only thing that actually matters, "add" to the system.

Problem is, as an actual expert in energy and energy conversion, 99% of most people fail to understand even basic energy concepts. It's kind of comical, ask a friend "what is energy" or "what is a field" and there is this blank expression staring off into space. Nothing, nada, were pulling a blank, nobody is home, nothing. This should have been the first clue very few seem to have a clue.

Not rocket science, ENERGY dictates everything. If we understand the concept of ENERGY the conversion of energy isn't as big a problem.

AC

well i dont suggest we listen to this malarky.  i believe this is a distraction.  i believe we should keep going.  i dont think he understands this at all.  or, maybe he does, being an expert and all...   

see, these so called experts, f6 included, seem to only offer negativity. there is a reason they are here. its not to save us from ourselves. its to preach the negativity to the viewers so that they will lose hope in what we present.

there arevthings that steve told me that i promised i would not repeat.  i kept my word. he is a good man, and i think he has what it takes.  he has given enough for anyone that absorbed it, he encouraged them to figure it out.

mags


   

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@Dave - I haven't had it on the scope as I'm finding the effect at too higher voltage.

I do however think I have found the key...

As a magnet passes over a coil, the scope will show the all too familiar sinewave. This is the reaction that the coil shows as a result of being induced by the magnet - resistance to incoming change and outgoing change.

With two paralleled counterwound coils, and passing a North magnet over one then South magnet over the other on a rotor alternating there will be a point if enough potential (voltage) can be developed at a high enough frequency, you will start getting a different or opposite spin voltage finding it's way onto a coil wound in the opposite direction and under the influence of an opposite pole

If a sine wave is a coils normal response to a magnet. A square wave (when talking about induced, not switched), is a stressed response. Whereby the forces that exist as a result of the coil being induced (poles, bloch wall), are attempting to reconcile energy that is completely the opposite to what the oncoming magnet 'normally does' to the coil. Resulting in a square wave, as the coil is being railed from side to side as it attempts to equalised different spins of current.

When this effect is taking place, the magnetic properties of the voltage are being 'equalised' resulting in a loss of drag.

Current and resistance (when induced) is a result of the equilibric fields operating inside a coil. So a sine wave represents the two horizontal fields rotating at the blochwall that respond to the oncoming magnet by resisting and growing (pressure), then as the magnet moves away, the coil flips and tries to attract and shrinks (vacuum).








   
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@Dave - I haven't had it on the scope as I'm finding the effect at too higher voltage.

I do however think I have found the key...

As a magnet passes over a coil, the scope will show the all too familiar sinewave. This is the reaction that the coil shows as a result of being induced by the magnet - resistance to incoming change and outgoing change.

With two paralleled counterwound coils, and passing a North magnet over one then South magnet over the other on a rotor alternating there will be a point if enough potential (voltage) can be developed at a high enough frequency, you will start getting a different or opposite spin voltage finding it's way onto a coil wound in the opposite direction and under the influence of an opposite pole

If a sine wave is a coils normal response to a magnet. A square wave (when talking about induced, not switched), is a stressed response. Whereby the forces that exist as a result of the coil being induced (poles, bloch wall), are attempting to reconcile energy that is completely the opposite to what the oncoming magnet 'normally does' to the coil. Resulting in a square wave, as the coil is being railed from side to side as it attempts to equalised different spins of current.

When this effect is taking place, the magnetic properties of the voltage are being 'equalised' resulting in a loss of drag.

Current and resistance (when induced) is a result of the equilibric fields operating inside a coil. So a sine wave represents the two horizontal fields rotating at the blochwall that respond to the oncoming magnet by resisting and growing (pressure), then as the magnet moves away, the coil flips and tries to attract and shrinks (vacuum).

If not too much trouble, can you make a video showing the effects you are getting?

Here is a quote from Erfinder which aligns with what you say about drag reduction:
Quote
The effect is amazing ... ! mention it here because I believe its related ... .! strongly believe that the capacitance of my motor windings
are being modified in some heretofore unknown way! I believe the cap is being charged with displacement current ... how that's
possible I don't know and can only speculate ... and I won't do that here .. I will say that this massive charging current doesn't produce
the Lenz induced drag, ergo, my assuming that I am dealing with displacement current and not electronic current ... When my motors
are operating in the anomaly zone they generate pure square waves! The wave of the motor literally changes from a sine like wave
into a perfect square wave .... the wave is so clean it appears as if it was being generated by a signal generator.

Dave
   

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Hey Dave, I'm trying to work out if it is frequency or voltage that kicks the effect in - and making a simple setup to further the investigation.

1800rpm is around the mark, but without enough voltage to 'bias' the coil, it just gets equalised. I've rejigged from 3 coils in series for a counterwound set back to individual coils, and overall I can get the same voltages, but I'm not getting the effect as individual coils just don't make enough voltage. From testing so far I need about 80V to get the effect to manifest.

I was quite taken by some of Erfinders comments as they mirror what I have so far found.

Here is a rough one of the effect that I made a while ago: https://youtube.com/shorts/BJlMMYxL060?si=KjNie-Kiup8hjJbt
   
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Hey Dave, I'm trying to work out if it is frequency or voltage that kicks the effect in - and making a simple setup to further the investigation.

1800rpm is around the mark, but without enough voltage to 'bias' the coil, it just gets equalised. I've rejigged from 3 coils in series for a counterwound set back to individual coils, and overall I can get the same voltages, but I'm not getting the effect as individual coils just don't make enough voltage. From testing so far I need about 80V to get the effect to manifest.

I was quite taken by some of Erfinders comments as they mirror what I have so far found.

Here is a rough one of the effect that I made a while ago: https://youtube.com/shorts/BJlMMYxL060?si=KjNie-Kiup8hjJbt

I'm trying to wrap my head around what is going on in your video.  It looks like you have a motor/generator and the meters are looking at the generator output?  It sounds like when you load the device, the voltage drops and it speeds up is this correct?  Then at a point the voltage spikes and a drag can be heard loading the motor?  Is this voltage spike what you assume to be the square wave manifesting?  What is the load you're attaching to the device?  Do you have a simplified diagram of your machine?

I know that is question overload, but it is hard for me to make out the significance without supporting details.  ;D

Thanks for sharing,

Dave
   

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Hey Dave... ok, pulsed top and bottom with FETs. Middle coils are 3 columns CW, 3 CCW and wired in parallel to each other. When I short these secondaries, the effect comes on. The speed up I believe, occurs because there is less magnetic field to oppose. The meter shows voltage coming back down after unshorting. In an extreme attempt with additional rotors, I was passing nearly 600V around the primaries and the same in the secondaries when completely shorting all of it (motor/belt driven) - despite 10A initial input, it dropped to 7A shorted.

As yet I haven't tried alternating N - S magnets - that could be tricky with my setup, but I'm sure they'll be some more gains there.

As described previously, I'm attempting to reverse induction and 'override' the coils typical response with an opposite response.

I believe Erfinder has used multiple strands to make coils that have a resultant wave behaving the opposite to a normal coil, one that reverses induction. I'm still working through why 6 filar was chosen.
   
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Hey Dave... ok, pulsed top and bottom with FETs. Middle coils are 3 columns CW, 3 CCW and wired in parallel to each other. When I short these secondaries, the effect comes on. The speed up I believe, occurs because there is less magnetic field to oppose. The meter shows voltage coming back down after unshorting. In an extreme attempt with additional rotors, I was passing nearly 600V around the primaries and the same in the secondaries when completely shorting all of it (motor/belt driven) - despite 10A initial input, it dropped to 7A shorted.

As yet I haven't tried alternating N - S magnets - that could be tricky with my setup, but I'm sure they'll be some more gains there.

As described previously, I'm attempting to reverse induction and 'override' the coils typical response with an opposite response.

I believe Erfinder has used multiple strands to make coils that have a resultant wave behaving the opposite to a normal coil, one that reverses induction. I'm still working through why 6 filar was chosen.

Do your generator coils have cores?

It appears you are getting an effect similar to the Kromrey converter, generator #1.  I'm wondering if the multiple strands of wire in Erfinder's coils provide differing impedance paths for the damped oscillating waves in the self oscillation phenomena.  If so, you could have currents that are oscillating back and forth among these multiple strands that could be in opposition to one another creating a magnetic field cancellation (dielectric field production?) similar to the generator #2 listed in the attached snippet.

Erfinder Quotes:
Quote
We should look to the "between the turns relations" in coils. Here in conventionally connected
solenoids, we observe how the flux spins CW around one half of the coil, and CCW around the
other half. Is this significant? I think it is, because these two opposing vortex generate that which
we identify with as the pole we find on the face of the magnet, or coil. Between the turns we find
the field is moving in such a manner that repulsion takes place between turns, the flow is
concentrated in the very center of the solenoid, and outside the solenoid. The flow through the
core is opposite to the flow moving outside the core. Together the inner and outer flow constitute
one flow, both inner and outer flows are unidirectional. I find it fascinating that there is little or no
flow between turns, the bulk of the flux being in the core and outside, and yet, a massive
repulsive force is made manifest between the turns ..... The general rule of thumb I now go by is if
there is repulsion between turns, CEMF will be high, and the generator will oppose the prime
mover. If there is attraction between the turns, the CEMF will be low, and the generator either
assists the prime mover or has no effect on the prime mover.

Quote
We can consider the damped wave like a low loss HF generator that we didn't ask for, nor pay for.
It is a generator which seems to operate along a path of least resistance. An undamped wave,
basically a square is best generated by compressing damped waves, waves which already contain
the necessary harmonic, and amplitude relations
...... I have demonstrated this, I call the
mechanism for generation of square (undamped) from damped waves ...... Infinite Harmonic
Resonant Self Oscillation ....... you could experience it ... .

Dave
   

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Do your generator coils have cores?

It appears you are getting an effect similar to the Kromrey converter, generator #1.  I'm wondering if the multiple strands of wire in Erfinder's coils provide differing impedance paths for the damped oscillating waves in the self oscillation phenomena.  If so, you could have currents that are oscillating back and forth among these multiple strands that could be in opposition to one another creating a magnetic field cancellation (dielectric field production?) similar to the generator #2 listed in the attached snippet.

Dave

Yes, and after losing yet another weekend to my device, I don't think I can achieve a direct (coil to coil) CW -> CCW inversion of the induction field. There is  simply too much magnet in my system, and although I can make the voltage to counter, frequency then becomes a problem having to spin too fast to make enough voltage, which then effects timing etc etc...

I think you are spot on with the multiple strands, but I don't yet see how a 'resultant inversed wave' is derived from 6 strands. Logically, pairs will cancel leaving 3 fields to dual it out? Erfinder seemed very casual about wiring methods with multi-filer.

How did you go with your coiling? Keen to see your results before I commit to re-rolling my stack.



   
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Yes, and after losing yet another weekend to my device, I don't think I can achieve a direct (coil to coil) CW -> CCW inversion of the induction field. There is  simply too much magnet in my system, and although I can make the voltage to counter, frequency then becomes a problem having to spin too fast to make enough voltage, which then effects timing etc etc...

I think you are spot on with the multiple strands, but I don't yet see how a 'resultant inversed wave' is derived from 6 strands. Logically, pairs will cancel leaving 3 fields to dual it out? Erfinder seemed very casual about wiring methods with multi-filer.

How did you go with your coiling? Keen to see your results before I commit to re-rolling my stack.

I got my second trifilar coil wound over the weekend.  I'm waiting on mineral spirits to dissolve bearing grease for my rotor so I can press them on and measure the length between bellhousings that I'll need to cut my frame to in order to mount everything.  Unfortunately I'll be headed back to work for the week tomorrow.  Hopefully I can get some things done before going in each day and possibly drag some of this to work and complete it during any down time there.  It is slowly moving forward.

Dave
   

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Very keen to keep this conversatiin going, so here is a schematic of sorts to explain my contraption.

Rotor magnets cycle through 4 stages every 90°.

The left side shows the primaries getting their feed from two different coilsets. The right side shows the secondaries in parallel.

It should be easy to see how I'm trying to keep the coilsets at odds with each other. Funny that the primary arrangement was the only way I could 'keep' all the voltage from each coilset without cancelling out.
   
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Very keen to keep this conversatiin going, so here is a schematic of sorts to explain my contraption.

Rotor magnets cycle through 4 stages every 90°.

The left side shows the primaries getting their feed from two different coilsets. The right side shows the secondaries in parallel.

It should be easy to see how I'm trying to keep the coilsets at odds with each other. Funny that the primary arrangement was the only way I could 'keep' all the voltage from each coilset without cancelling out.

I'd say the best way to keep this conversation going here on this thread is to determine wave quality.  You'll need a scope probe capable of handling the voltages you're seeing.  This topic focused on the generation of a square wave.  If your device doesn't produce such, it should really have its own thread where you can go into deep detail about power consumption, construction and novel effects. At this point, it is only a guess as to what wave you're generating.

Dave
   

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I'd say the best way to keep this conversation going here on this thread is to determine wave quality.  You'll need a scope probe capable of handling the voltages you're seeing.  This topic focused on the generation of a square wave.  If your device doesn't produce such, it should really have its own thread where you can go into deep detail about power consumption, construction and novel effects. At this point, it is only a guess as to what wave you're generating.

Dave

Fair comment and sorry for the sidetrack.

....

Ok, I'm reading through Erfinders writings for the 3rd time and it's sinking in.

Phaseshift. By using multifilar and leveraging the low resistance between the low inductance 'bucking coils', looks like it results in the rate of change (as a magnet passes over it), to be slowed or sustained by virtue of 6 coils bucking to sustain the flux field. So much so that maximum flux change, shifts or drifts, to align with maximum flux density AND because a field is sustained, the repulsive field induced by the oncoming magnet has passed TDC and now repels the magnet.

The square wave should then appear as the phaseshift occurs.

I need to roll some coils...
   

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it all has me thinking...

if the coil has these properties, i wonder what might show if we pulsed it with another coil.

mags
   
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it all has me thinking...

if the coil has these properties, i wonder what might show if we pulsed it with another coil.

mags

I've always wondered if the capacitor in Tesla's ozone patent was referenced often by Erfinder in an obfuscated attempt to suggest that his capacitively dominant coils were the capacitor.  He did talk about the inductive discharge from the choke coil charging the capacitor..

Dave
   

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I've always wondered if the capacitor in Tesla's ozone patent was referenced often by Erfinder in an obfuscated attempt to suggest that his capacitively dominant coils were the capacitor.  He did talk about the inductive discharge from the choke coil charging the capacitor..

Dave

There in lays one part, the other is electrons and their energy level.

So think of how you increase the energy level of free electrons in the outer ring around an atom of a metal. Copper has one, tin has two and tungsten has four. Tungsten is used for generating electrons in a vacuum, but tin coated copper is good in a capacitor formation in a special way where agitated electrons are accumulated on a capacitor plate.

Agitated electrons are in a higher energy state, this is part of the way to free energy.

So how do you agitate electrons at normal atmosferic pressure?

I leave it with you.

Mike


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Agitated electrons are in a higher energy state, this is part of the way to free energy.

So how do you agitate electrons at normal atmosferic pressure?

I leave it with you.

Mike

Google AI response...

Copper electrons become agitated by electromagnetic radiation at various frequencies, but they are particularly responsive to the frequency of visible light and higher frequencies. At the lower end of the electromagnetic spectrum, electrons in copper are agitated by the alternating electric field associated with alternating current (AC) power, typically at 50 or 60 Hz. As the frequency increases, the electrons absorb more energy and exhibit more pronounced agitation.

Low Frequencies (e.g., AC power):
At 50 or 60 Hz, the electric field associated with AC power causes electrons to oscillate back and forth within the copper wire. This oscillation is a form of agitation, although the electrons don't gain a lot of energy at these frequencies.

Higher Frequencies (e.g., visible light):
When exposed to higher frequencies, such as those found in visible light, copper electrons can absorb energy and jump to higher energy levels within the atom. This is a more significant form of agitation, and it's why copper absorbs certain colors of light.

Radio Frequencies:
At radio frequencies, electrons can also be excited and oscillate, but the effect is less pronounced than at higher frequencies.

X-rays and Gamma Rays:
At very high frequencies, like those in X-rays and gamma rays, copper electrons can be completely ejected from the atom (photoelectric effect).

In essence, the degree of agitation in copper electrons increases as the frequency of the electromagnetic radiation increases. The electrons respond to the oscillating electric and magnetic fields, with the amplitude and energy of the oscillation determining the degree of agitation and the resulting effects.

With a structured hexagon winding for the six strands, a seventh strand in the centre could be used to agitate...
   

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Google AI response...

Copper electrons become agitated by electromagnetic radiation at various frequencies, but they are particularly responsive to the frequency of visible light and higher frequencies. At the lower end of the electromagnetic spectrum, electrons in copper are agitated by the alternating electric field associated with alternating current (AC) power, typically at 50 or 60 Hz. As the frequency increases, the electrons absorb more energy and exhibit more pronounced agitation.

Low Frequencies (e.g., AC power):
At 50 or 60 Hz, the electric field associated with AC power causes electrons to oscillate back and forth within the copper wire. This oscillation is a form of agitation, although the electrons don't gain a lot of energy at these frequencies.

Higher Frequencies (e.g., visible light):
When exposed to higher frequencies, such as those found in visible light, copper electrons can absorb energy and jump to higher energy levels within the atom. This is a more significant form of agitation, and it's why copper absorbs certain colors of light.

Radio Frequencies:
At radio frequencies, electrons can also be excited and oscillate, but the effect is less pronounced than at higher frequencies.

X-rays and Gamma Rays:
At very high frequencies, like those in X-rays and gamma rays, copper electrons can be completely ejected from the atom (photoelectric effect).

In essence, the degree of agitation in copper electrons increases as the frequency of the electromagnetic radiation increases. The electrons respond to the oscillating electric and magnetic fields, with the amplitude and energy of the oscillation determining the degree of agitation and the resulting effects.

With a structured hexagon winding for the six strands, a seventh strand in the centre could be used to agitate...

Well I did not ask AI, but never mind.

If you wind a solenoid and pass an AC current through it, then place a piece of cpper or Tin  or both in the middle of it, what will happen to the copper?

Mike


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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"If you wind a solenoid and pass an AC current through it, then place a piece of cpper or Tin  or both in the middle of it, what will happen to the copper?"


It's not my place to interfere with worship, but think about it. It's completely different, but think about it.
And now I'll clarify that.
What happens to it if you place the coil in the circuit as a capacitor? 
(How can a coil be a capacitor???)

That is, if you wind the capacitor with a wire?
Yes, one will be capacitance. The other will be inductance. One will be 90° behind the other. That is, in relation to voltage and current.
Yes, the change in current induces voltage.

But will it affect the others? That's the big question.

According to the energy balance, it doesn't matter at all, but the symbol is still nuanced.

Atti.
   

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The self-capacitance of multi-layer solenoid coils is significant and it forms a parallel resonant circuit with the inductance of the coil (with a specific self-resonance frequency).  Additionally,  the turns of the coils form coiled transmission lines between layers with impedance discontinuities that create multiple reflections when pulsed.
   

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The self-capacitance of multi-layer solenoid coils is significant and it forms a parallel resonant circuit with the inductance of the coil (with a specific self-resonance frequency).  Additionally,  the turns of the coils form coiled transmission lines between layers with impedance discontinuities that create multiple reflections when pulsed.

Spot on "reflections" , not standing waves as some would think.

Mike


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These reflections are a scourge for coil pulsers.

Interestingly, the grenade-type coils that were discussed on this forum many times, minimize these reflections and self-resonate at fewer frequencies than the regular solenoidal coils - ideally at only one frequency.  There are comparative VNA spectrograms about this on this forum somewhere.
   

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These reflections are a scourge for coil pulsers.

Interestingly, the grenade-type coils that were discussed on this forum many times, minimize these reflections and self-resonate at fewer frequencies than the regular solenoidal coils - ideally at only one frequency.  There are comparative VNA spectrograms about this on this forum somewhere.

Yes but like this you can start to do so great things.



---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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