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Author Topic: What to do about INTIMIDATION?  (Read 61431 times)
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img  PhysicsProf
What to do about INTIMIDATION? « on: 2013-11-27, 14:47:36 »
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We have some very good people saying they will no longer post (at least on a particular subject) because of fear of TPTB. Duncan has repeatedly raised these fears here at OUR recently.
 What can be done about this?  should we yield to intimidation?

Today we have e2matrix ending a very interesting series of posts at ou about his "rotoverter-like" experiments with a 3-phase motor, with this comment:

Quote
e2matrix
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Re: Some Interesting Results with a 3 Phase Motor - 95 Watts Free?
« Reply #13 on: Today at 01:19:19 AM »
Having been reminded about certain 'issues' that sometimes come up when working with Rotoverter style setups I won't be doing anything more with this project and I won't be making any more posts on this subject.   Call me paranoid if you like and I'm sure I am a long ways from having anything of real interest but at my old age I don't want to even have to think about having any problems due to my tinkering.  

And below we have Duncan reminding us of these "issues" recently - and not the first time Duncan has mentioned these intimidating actions by TPTB that should silence us --
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #1 on: 2013-11-27, 14:56:56 »
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  I have been thinking about starting/sponsoring a BUILD_OFF for devices using "CAPS AND COILS", such as Luc's and recently e2matrix devices.  With prizes, and asking submitters to "show the numbers."

 Luc said he will post no more on his caps and coils work, because he was contacted by someone with money-- parting words to that effect.  E2matrix says he doesn't want trouble... and will post no more on this.

  Clearly TPTB want us to think they are very powerful and watching what we do, and they evidently would like us to shut up on these alt-energy schemes.  Should we bow to their wishes?  why keep working and sharing if TPTB are going to stomp on anything that sticks up  (as Duncan says IIRC)?  

Meanwhile, we're paying through the nose for heating our homes and driving our vehicles with FOSSIL fuels, controlled by TPTB...

Wars are fought over ENERGY, particularly fossil fuels.  Isn't there a better way, for humanity?
« Last Edit: 2013-11-27, 16:26:26 by PhysicsProf »
   
img  poynt99
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #2 on: 2013-11-27, 15:08:09 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Steve,

Are you saying Luc quit posting because of a threat? I very much doubt that is the case. It's more likely that he was actually made an offer to continue developing his idea off-line.

And now we have tinman in the same situation. He has actually deleted his account here, and abandoned his own forum.

So, I don't think it is intimidation at all; it's more like enticement.

So much for "open source" and "sharing" as these two used to espouse.


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #3 on: 2013-11-27, 15:28:34 »
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Not Luc (who went with a money offer), but e2matrix.  READ his parting words, Poynt.  I would call it a "PERCEIVED threat" that he is worried about.
« Last Edit: 2013-11-27, 17:31:53 by PhysicsProf »
   
img  Grumpy
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #4 on: 2013-11-27, 15:54:56 »

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tExB=qr
I haven't seen anything that warrants the type of intimidation that is being claimed.

Most of the stories about intimidation appear to be unfounded paranoia, and a desire for attention.

The inventor of the rotoverter, Hector D Perez Torres, stated that it is very efficient but not "OU", yet many people insist that it is OU and perpetuate the myth.

I do believe that Steven Mark was/is suppressed, and that his device was all that he claimed, and that there are several features of the device that he didn't reveal.  
Hendershot too, and Moray.
   
img  Chet K
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #5 on: 2013-11-27, 16:39:03 »
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Well
In my opinion TinMan has had to refocus his efforts on his Family and things he holds dear,The obsesion with FE can drive wedges into our lives if we are not careful,and TinMan has no real Off switch............

I will miss Him Though ,since He could/can do the work of Ten experimenters ,and his skiils are constantly evolving Via his passion to learn.

One smart cookie....as well as a great guy.

@ Gutoluc has always been an inspiration ,ever since his "sentence" with Crankypants [couple years hard labor].

And I know he serves the less forunate and dedicates his life towards making this world a better place.

I suppose there is more to the story?

Just one mans opinion.......

Niether one of these men would be easily intimidated !

Thx
Chet
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #6 on: 2013-11-27, 16:41:48 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2013-11-27, 15:54:56
I haven't seen anything that warrants the type of intimidation that is being claimed.
.....

I do believe that Steven Mark was/is suppressed, and that his device was all that he claimed, and that there are several features of the device that he didn't reveal.  
Hendershot too, and Moray.


Agreed especially that Moray was harshly intimidated.

Let's recap, in the last several weeks --

Elecar claimed a self-looping SMOT, then said he accepted an offer and signed an NDA.

Luc (and gyula?) had an offer and accepted it, and said no more posting on this.  His exciting posts span 4 days, no more.

Tinman -- not sure all that happened there, but in any case, he not only shut up about free energy, but shut down his OWN forum.

e2matrix says he fears what could happen to him and so is posting no more on this (specifically, 3-phase motor experiments)
   
img  Centraflow
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #7 on: 2013-11-27, 16:53:44 »

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Buy me a beer
Intimidation is very real, take it from me. I admit I took a payment (75,000 pounds to be exact), for my work on splitting the water molecule with RF back in the 80's, then the American by accident in his cancer research found that it can be done, and even though he is now dead "due to his own cancer or so it is told", WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THIS? I think I know because I was told by a person who served in the Irak war on an aircraft carrier, that the huge excess nuclear power on board was being used to make fuel for the aircraft from sea water, the amount of power used was of no importance because of the huge excess. He knows this first hand as he was one of the people who looked after the nuclear plant (being a specialist in nuclear plants) and now is one of four who own all of Meyers things including patents etc etc (all very real, I have been there for a week).

Some people think I am talking through my hat, I AM NOT, it is an economic and military NO GO AREA for western governments, synthetic kerosene has made those aircraft carriers totally fuel autonomous. If anybody thinks they are going to be left alone to publish this type of tech: think again, they will not let it happen while there is still plenty of oil to be raised.

Sorry to hear about Tinman, that has come as a shock to me.

Regards

Mike


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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img  ion
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #8 on: 2013-11-27, 17:12:34 »
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It's turtles all the way down
There is a pattern here.

Some folks, finally finding out their measurements were way off, decide to withdraw with some sort of excuse.

I have seen this so many times it is what I consider "normal behavior" for those "in the spotlight" when they finally find their errors.

Anyone recall "Team McGeorge Inventacom"?

Great claims were made in the beginning, but information was sketchy or extremely slow in disbursement. When team members started pressing him for more info, the fellow was supposedly critically hurt in a auto accident when he couldn't deliver further on his motor generator setup. Subsequent detective work uncovered it was all a ruse to get other folks to take over and finish the project, which never worked from the start.

This is one of hundreds of examples that usually get blamed on tptb when it is actually incompetence that pulls the plug.

There are so many snake oil peddlers out there that are not being shut down, yet have all kinds of free energy claims. They continue to bilk the unsuspecting out of thousands of dollars yearly and tptb don't give a hoot.

Then, there are also people that are a possible threat (ECAT and others) pushing possible cutting edge cold fusion work that seem to live on without a hint of interference.

Common sense not paranoia should prevail.



---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #9 on: 2013-11-27, 17:17:05 »
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I do not think you are talking through your hat, Mike, but appreciate your experience.
I was shocked to hear Luc say this was his gift to mankind and open source yada yada, then within 4 days say he accepted an offer and would NO LONGER POST about it.

I think that anything which SHUTS UP one researcher tends to intimidate another researcher.  Anyway, that seems to be the effect.  Notice how after Luc said he would no longer post about it, that thread effectively went quiet and died.

When you say -
Quote
If anybody thinks they are going to be left alone to publish this type of tech: think again, they will not let it happen while there is still plenty of oil to be raised.
[/b]

Are you referring to synthetic kerosene in particular, or to any "free/exotic energy" approach?
   
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Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #10 on: 2013-11-27, 17:22:18 »
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Quote from: ION on 2013-11-27, 17:12:34
....

Then, there are also people that are a possible threat (ECAT and others) pushing possible cutting edge cold fusion work that seem to live on without a hint of interference.




Without a "hint of interference"?  That's not what I understand.  Legal threats and challenges...

But consider "cold fusion" researcher Mitchell Swartz.  I talked to him at the ICCF18 conf in July.  He had tried to patent a small device, and the US PTO slapped a "national security" order on it -- he could not even talk about it.  He challenged this; it was a small test device, nothing too threatening to BigOyl!  
Finally, the US PTO dropped the security order -- which is how he can talk about it now.  The example demonstrates that "national security" hush orders (alt-energy devices) do exist.
   
img  ion
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #11 on: 2013-11-27, 17:29:57 »
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It's turtles all the way down
It's easy to nit pick what I stated, but since it is supposedly the tall grass that gets cut first, I guess I will have to worry when certain prominent, newsworthy and published persons are no longer posting here and elsewhere.

Get it?


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #12 on: 2013-11-27, 17:32:16 »
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Quote from: ION on 2013-11-27, 17:29:57
It's easy to nit pick what I stated, but since it is supposedly the tall grass that gets cut first, I guess I will have to worry when certain prominent persons here are no longer posting.

Get it?

I think so...  How long since Gotoluc or Gyula or Tinman have posted here?  Tinman has canceled his account, Poynt says.
   
img  ion
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #13 on: 2013-11-27, 17:36:16 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote:
Quote
I think so...  How long since Gotoluc or Gyula or Tinman have posted here?  Tinman has canceled his account, Poynt says.

Nope, missed it.

None of these guys presented anything that could not be explained with a basic course in electricity. TPTB would not be interested in their "work".

Maybe they would be interested in this guy who has published bold claims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7tj5VT_lw
« Last Edit: 2013-11-27, 19:02:42 by ION »


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #14 on: 2013-11-27, 18:18:37 »
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Quote from: ION on 2013-11-27, 17:36:16
Quote:
Nope, missed it.

None of these guys presented anything that could not be explained with a basic course in electricity. TPTB would not be interested in their "work".


Not sure I agree there -- weren't they offered money for their developments?  That is, Luc (and presumably Gyula who was working with Luc) said he had received a monetary offer.  Not sure if Tinman was offered money or not.
   
img  ion
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #15 on: 2013-11-27, 18:36:46 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013-11-27, 18:18:37
Not sure I agree there -- weren't they offered money for their developments?  That is, Luc (and presumably Gyula who was working with Luc) said he had received a monetary offer.  Not sure if Tinman was offered money or not.

Without knowing the details of the offer it could also be construed as true if an interested uncle kicked in fifty bucks to buy a few parts.

Too many unknowns here and, as I said it seems to fit a common pattern.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #16 on: 2013-11-27, 18:48:16 »

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Buy me a beer
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013-11-27, 17:17:05
I do not think you are talking through your hat, Mike, but appreciate your experience.
I was shocked to hear Luc say this was his gift to mankind and open source yada yada, then within 4 days say he accepted an offer and would NO LONGER POST about it.

I think that anything which SHUTS UP one researcher tends to intimidate another researcher.  Anyway, that seems to be the effect.  Notice how after Luc said he would no longer post about it, that thread effectively went quiet and died.

When you say -


Are you referring to synthetic kerosene in particular, or to any "free/exotic energy" approach?


Steven
I was referring to kerosene in this aspect, but I would think it may apply to other FREE energy, those tax dollars, pounds or euros are also a problem for them as it is a problem for us to pay, but we are only the ESCLAVOS (slaves) so they don't care as long as we tow the line.

Ion, you are probably correct in some circumstances, but I don't think all. Brad (Tinman) is first to criticise these type of things, that is OK with me, so something has certainly ruffled his feathers for him to do that ???

My work can ALL be explained by chemical reaction, that is SMD and the not disclosed yet electron bombardment. You see Ion I am sure you roll your eyes at me, "I may be wrong so forgive me if I am", but all I have shown so far is a very basic SMD, BUT, I posted by accident a diagram with an extra mosfet "by accident", that is the next part to SMD "VLF modulation" of which I am still considering about posting as I do not want problems. SMD is for making hydrogen from water, not HHO or OU, but cheap hydrogen to be used to make synthetic fuels from water, low power use.

Anyway enough of my rant, I seem to get worse the older I get, probably frustration C.C 63 in 6 weeks time.

regards

Mike


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  Chet K
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #17 on: 2013-11-27, 21:50:46 »
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Mike
I am not certain what has caused Brad to take a reprieve from FE research ,However I can be certain that it is not an effect of suppression or nefarious circumstance.

Most likely his efforts need to be focused on his Family and their well being.
Few people have put in as much Public effort as Brad and mostly for the benefit of others .

With his skills and determination he could be a very successful man if his time were spent on more fruitfull endeavours.

Perhaps this is just a "time out" as well as a chance to gain a more stable financial foothold in these ever changing times ?

Thx
Chet
   
img  ion
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #18 on: 2013-11-27, 22:27:43 »
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It's turtles all the way down
From Mike:

Quote
Ion I am sure you roll your eyes at me,

Not true Mike, I respect your work, your age, your wisdom and your experience.

I am not skilled in electro-chemistry and cannot comment on the validity of your work, but find it very interesting.

Regarding suppression, I just don't see it happening in the big players of the FE community, the ones making all the money selling books, DVD's "Secrets of bla" conference tickets (######, Lindy, Beardy, Numan etc. etc. etc.

So where is the canary that has been snuffed out as an early warning sign?

I have never been one to throw the baby out with the bathwater but

there are many urban legends, are we to believe them all?


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #19 on: 2013-11-27, 23:39:38 »

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Buy me a beer
Quote from: ramset on 2013-11-27, 21:50:46
Mike
I am not certain what has caused Brad to take a reprieve from FE research ,However I can be certain that it is not an effect of suppression or nefarious circumstance.

Most likely his efforts need to be focused on his Family and their well being.
Few people have put in as much Public effort as Brad and mostly for the benefit of others .

With his skills and determination he could be a very successful man if his time were spent on more fruitfull endeavours.

Perhaps this is just a "time out" as well as a chance to gain a more stable financial foothold in these ever changing times ?

Thx
Chet


Chet, a very very sudden time out, just when he was buying and setting up his new lab!!!, in his new house!!!  I do know he has had problems in the past, but I thought that was all behind him, oh well I hope all is well with him, he has a quick mind, certainly caught me on the hop.

OK ION, you help me out with the electronics and I will do my best with the electro chemistry/physics and lets see what we can do to help this world O0 and not rattle too many cages :)

regards

Mike


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #20 on: 2013-11-28, 00:57:59 »
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  Today I was asked about my work on the reverse-JT circuit and claims that the circuit produced "evidence for" COP >1.  As I've noted repeatedly, the claim was "evidence for", not "proof of".   We worked on this approach for several months, particularly nul-pts and myself.  (There were ooo  Keep in mind the effect was rather hard to reproduce, as I have admitted numerous times.
 
  After some development, I suggested that we place the device in a sensitive calorimeter to measure total output heat/energy, converting all electrical energy into heat using resistors etc.  Input energy would be determined using a known capacitor charged initially to a known voltage and running the device to reach a lower voltage.   The test was arranged with a professor/friend of mine Dr Hansen, who had the necessary equipment.  However, on the day for the test as I visited him in his lab, he balked and declined to do the test in the calorimeter he had use of (he did not explain why really).  And then he was very busy.

This setback was a severe blow to the project.  

Nul-pts suggested that we try to achieve a self-runner.  One of his variations to this end of self-looping is shown in the attached, which was called the 4everlight.  He ran a flashing LED as the load and IIRC placed the whole thing in a metal box as a Faraday shield -- and still the battery rose from 1.20V to over 1.3V over an 11-month period.  Unfortunately, Nul-pts indicated rather abruptly he would leave the freedom energy field and I have lost contact with him.
   
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Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #21 on: 2013-11-28, 00:59:20 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: ramset on 2013-11-27, 21:50:46
Mike
I am not certain what has caused Brad to take a reprieve from FE research ,However I can be certain that it is not an effect of suppression or nefarious circumstance.

Most likely his efforts need to be focused on his Family and their well being.
I think this is highly unlikely the reason Brad left us. If that was truly the case, and if I know Brad well enough, he would not leave under the circumstances you have suggested without saying goodbye.

Be realistic Chet, Brad took off without a word because he went to the dark side  :P


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #22 on: 2013-11-28, 02:54:38 »
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Quote from: poynt99 on 2013-11-28, 00:59:20
I think this is highly unlikely the reason Brad left us. If that was truly the case, and if I know Brad well enough, he would not leave under the circumstances you have suggested without saying goodbye.

Be realistic Chet, Brad took off without a word because he went to the dark side  :P

I don't think so Poynt -- here's info from Tinman's site, posted by another there:

Quote
Hello Gentlemen...

Exchanging several SMS messages, and emails with TinMan today. He has asked me to post this for him... I will be calling him on Thursday as well, so here is what he wrote...

Hi Guys

Im sorry for the abrupt exit from the forum,and the deletion of my account. But after recieving some bad news, anger took over, and i seen my account as being time that could have been spent with my family. Infact my youtube account was next on the hit list, but my wife stopped me from doing that-as it should remain so as it may help any of you in the future. A knee jerk reaction i know, but what is done is done.

Im hopeing to return in time to come-all going well, but for now i only have a need and want for my wife and kid's. Some times it takes a good smack in the head to see what your priorities should be, and as much as i enjoy this FE stuff, it is not my priority in life.

I will drop in from time to time, and say Gday-how often, i cant say right now.
Anyway, a big thanks to you all, for all your support in the past years !

TinMan
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #23 on: 2013-11-28, 06:20:14 »
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Excellent points, EM!

Quote from: EMdevices on 2013-11-28, 05:28:19
Life can be hard sometimes, i hope tineman pulls through.  I was destabized a while back when we had a death in the family and it took a few years for me to heal somewhat and get back to experimenting.

Other reasons can be divorce, problematic children, financial problems, accidents, you name it, lots of things can get to us.

I use to get very discouraged after a device did not work as planed after spending many hours and money on it.  Now I just look at it as fun experimenting, nothing to prove or get worked up over.  Just having fun with electronics!

EM

I would just like to SEE what e2matrix is seeing, similar results.  Having fun, delighting in something new, and go from there.  I guess I was very disappointed when he pulled out citing "paranoid" worries, although he did give quite a lot of detail before leaving. 

I sure don't have a nice 3-phase motor like the one he used... sigh.  I do have a small 3 phase motor, packed somewhere (but i'll find it!)

http://www.overunity.com/14048/some-interesting-results-with-a-3-phase-motor-95-watts-free/msg377927/#msg377927
Any one else here interested in trying the 3phase motor approach,, working together on this?
   
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Re: What to do about INTIMIDATION? « Reply #24 on: 2013-11-28, 11:56:10 »
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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013-11-28, 06:20:14
Any one else here interested in trying the 3phase motor approach,, working together on this?

There was a time when I would join the effort but.....

As I found out the usual scenario for this claim is this:

The cap allows the 3-phase motor to run but also lowers the power factor to the point where the majority of experimenters fail in the measurement part.
They don't know kvar from kw or use such high frequencies that their test equipment knows no better, either.

Unfortunately, I know this because the above mistakes were mine in the distant past.


Aside.....

EM, are you still chasing the Tofurkey or is it safely in the oven?   ;D
   
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