Experiments and Anomalies

[PhysicsProf]

  I consider that both LS and Slider have made breakthroughs this week, using similar xformers.  Slider's SG demonstrations are significant, IMO.
Kudos to both!

It is critically important to REPLICATE the results, and if possible, to SCALE UP.

[Slider2732]

Thanks Steve, a lot of learning and a lot of fun with discoveries.
Something mixing with Brad's ideas is going to trip this stuff into a wider appeal I hope !

Speaking of SG's, here's an anomaly....

Short video, 1min 37sec, which shows something bizarre with the duty cycle output.
I'd like to know what is going on ?!
The circuit is an SJR Looper, converted back over from my version of the circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRJ2THmVC9c

[PhysicsProf]

  Right - I appreciate Brad's input also.  "many hands make "LIGHT" work"   

   That is a puzzle on your vid, Slider -- lighting brightly with 0% duty cycle.   

[PhysicsProf]

Ongoing discussion at OU, too.  Xee2 writes of a Joule Thief that he has run for 1.5 hours!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T9HQkDnIuU

[Slider2732]

Indeed and well worth pointing out Steve - because of Xee2's video upload date of June 28th 2011.
Lidmotor's 'Penny' circuit, Lasersabers micro joule ringer, my garden lights and probably many others are variants of the same thing. A highly efficient simple circuit that dates back to the 1960's and, if configured correctly, has its own anomalies.
However, with 2meg of resistance and a 0.1uF cap, that run time is as a flashing LED output, not continuous. Moving to a 0.01uF or 0.001uF, or decreasing the resistance to around 700 ohms and less will bring it to being a steady light to the eyes.

I discovered it with the 'Penny' and had a discussion with Lidmotor about the seeming negative uA on occasions, displayed on digital multimeters. It's likely an error of the meters, but shows how little juice that simple circuit style needs.
As an example, my 'Nephilim Penny' with 2 large pancake coils, has been running 24/7 since November 2011 on the same tub of water, same copper positive electrode and with just 3 replacements of the negative galvanized steel electrode.
Nephilim Penny responds to local storms, altering its flash rate. These circuits also will run in sync with another readily..the strongest of a pair dictating the run frequency of the other. I have 2x Eprom powered oscillators on our kitchen window that do that (solar energy comes in through the Eprom chip window). 1 flashes a blue LED and is a little stronger than the one that flashes the white. Bring their coils about an inch from each other and both flash at the blue ones rate.

If you replace Xee2's 10,000uF cap with 100uF, you'll strike that LED up into a flashing mode of about 2 or 3Hz just by holding a small piece of copper and galv steel in your hand.

Funnily enough, that's what I tried on the SJR Looper this afternoon. It used 2mA to light the night light with the extra circuit, 1mA without. So, it ended up lossy so far. It didn't work with just hand held electrodes, but would have made quite the party trick if it had

[Hoppy]

Ongoing discussion at OU, too.  Xee2 writes of a Joule Thief that he has run for 1.5 hours!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T9HQkDnIuU

The competition has begun in earnest! 

[TinMan]

Mark & Steve.
I found the video i was talking about,and i had forgotten actually how many odd thing's i had found with it.There was actually more to it than just an open coil driving the base. Check out the voltages i was getting from the AV plug's i had on all the terminal's. I will also find the first video on it,in the hope it will show how i had it all set up.

Please excuse me and my explination's,as i was very green back then lol-and to most,still am when it come's to electronic's.

I think i may go back and revisit this setup,and maybe try the copper rap on this one first,and let Mark continue with the pot core setup. This way we could compair setup's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-LAc52pOZ0

[Slider2732]

Peanut butter meant the 50/60Hz over the top of the DC output ? That fella had a lot of info and it's a shame he disappeared so quickly after showing his findings.
Your CRT neck ferrites at the end bring in the paper gapped core thoughts. Was it the same guys, Wesley and crew who did that ? What happens if we put paper between the core parts of the SJR Looper ferrite pieces ?


The HV reminds of this finding with a similar Joule Ringer circuit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zreTGaYYq5c
A wireless energy field output that we could pickup and send back around.

Solar garden lights do well with 3 LED's rather than 1. Amp draw goes down and the light from each is only slightly less than with just 1.

[PhysicsProf]

LaserSaber has now published his circuit from the Mother's Day device -- very simple: http://laserhacker.com/?p=406

Looks like he is using just two of the three coils...

Evidently he used the same coil as before, the coil described here http://laserhacker.com/?p=401

[Slider2732]

With the way he usually builds his SJR's, that means the left side coil will be the lower gauge, the right side a higher gauge.
The Green wire left side (Primary), Red wire right side (Secondary).
In fact though, join the top two points of the coil and make the coil a bifilar pancake and it's my SWES wireless system

OUBrads showed something similar to LS's yesterday, albeit connected to the AA battery all the time.
His use of a similar coil to those found in flash cameras is the interesting part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetNNe5XAyw
Brad mentioned that he found a regular common as muck 2N3904 to be best performing. It's not such a lowly part though, because along with the 2N4401 and 2N2222A is apparently a Negistor transistor. An explanation of that conclusion has always been elusive...anyone know the reasons ?

I'm going to build up an LS version, then see if I have one of those flash transformers and also try a 4kV trigger coil.

[Itsu]

With the way he usually builds his SJR's, that means the left side coil will be the lower gauge, the right side a higher gauge.
The Green wire left side (Primary), Red wire right side (Secondary).
In fact though, join the top two points of the coil and make the coil a bifilar pancake and it's my SWES wireless system

OUBrads showed something similar to LS's yesterday, albeit connected to the AA battery all the time.
His use of a similar coil to those found in flash cameras is the interesting part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetNNe5XAyw
Brad mentioned that he found a regular common as muck 2N3904 to be best performing. It's not such a lowly part though, because along with the 2N4401 and 2N2222A is apparently a Negistor transistor. An explanation of that conclusion has always been elusive...anyone know the reasons ?

I'm going to build up an LS version, then see if I have one of those flash transformers and also try a 4kV trigger coil.

Hi Slider,

could it be that the 2n2222 was used in severall "negistor" experiments like the one i did here:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2.msg36020#msg36020

Regards Itsu

[Slider2732]

Yes and thank you Itsu
Don Smith,  JL Naudin, there must be something to it

Dr. Stiffler also used to make use of the no Base connection with SEC circuits.
There is also that strange flasher on 12V with small signal transistors, where the Base isn't connected and the breakdown forces oscillation.
Similar to this, yet I know i've seen even simpler:
http://josephinnovations.blogspot.com/2013/04/damn-simple-led-flasher-circuit.html
Leo Esaki gained the Nobel Prize for his 1958 research into electron tunneling, which the circuit displays:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Esaki

A point to the wonderings is that could we trigger the Base of a 2N2222A/3904/4401 by an induction pickup off the top of a transformer ? The frequency could then be a push/pull and not strictly forced by the transistor frequency. Load dynamics changing through the run time may be influenced by the amount of wireless energy being picked up.
It brings in TinMan's circuit shown earlier, LS's new one and a point in the circuit that is not hard wired, so semi open for thoughts of looping.  

[Itsu]

LaserSaber has now published his circuit from the Mother's Day device -- very simple: http://laserhacker.com/?p=406

Looks like he is using just two of the three coils...

Evidently he used the same coil as before, the coil described here http://laserhacker.com/?p=401

As i had allmost all components available, even an old germanium transistor AC127 a decided to build this ringer.
After some fiddling it started to work like seen in laser sabers video above.
Especially the screenshot of his scope was something i wanted to replicate, and i found i needed to swap the leds over
to get this specific signal, so anodes at the top,  cathodes to the base (it works both sides by the way).

See screenshot of this signal and the voltage on the caps (blue trace).

Coil is constructed like Laser sable is showing, pot core (4.7cm) with first 1 layer copper tape with gap (2mm)
Then 1 coil single layer 0.3mm (AWG28) is about 54 turns CW.
Then 1 coil also 0.3mm (AWG28) about 300 turns CCW.
Then 1 layer copper tape again with gap (2mm).

Coil 1 = 10mH
Coil 2 = 335mH

Coil 2 is connected to the leds

No gap in the potcore, tightend together with a bold/nut.

This inductance and more important the interwinding capacitance seems to be to low, so best is to follow Laser Sabers instructions which
say AWG 20, first coil 2 layers, then second coil fill up the rest of the former (600?? turns).
Or add a cap from top of leds (anodes in my case) to ground.

I was trying to do some input power (input current/voltage) measurements, but signals are very small.


Video here:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-_aWDt79fw&feature=youtu.be      

Regards Itsu

[Slider2732]

Enjoyable replication to study, especially as you gained a similar trace and have a work around for the lower capacitance problem.
Do you think it's the same 3 negative ninnies who go around thumbing down everyones videos on this subject ?
If they'd just have the courage to post why they have such a dislike for us actual experimenters wishing to gain understandings then it would help us all out !


I had an idea for these circuits and the long videos.
Would it be an idea to use another low power device for the output, such as a digital watch ?
If a watch was running it would be known how long the circuit had been going. For those negative ninnies again it could be put in a clear box in the back yard and shown sealed.
1000uF at 1.5V runs one for approx 10 minutes before the screen begins to fade. If we found that the watch ran for an hour, it would show clear progress.
Bonus to the whole thing is that the same battery that would be taken out of the watch to solder to the terminals, is the same one that could be used to start up the system !

The one in this pic is from a dollar store. Flip the back off, take the circuit and battery out, solder to the terminals and off we go.

[Hoppy]

Do you think it's the same 3 negative ninnies who go around thumbing down everyones videos on this subject ?
If they'd just have the courage to post why they have such a dislike for us actual experimenters wishing to gain understandings then it would help us all out !

As I'm sure you consider me as one of the three negative ninnies, I would like to explain that I have no problem with both yours and Lasersaber's videos showing long run times for a couple of LED's.  I say this because I have seen this effect myself and do not consider it unusual, given that LED's can be lit from extremely low current pulses. However, I'm of the opinion that Akula is almost certainly faking his self-running 30W LED job and certainly his garden contraption. So, no need for you to go to the trouble in boxing up your device and doing a garden video to convince me that its a genuine long runner.

Hoppy

[ion]

Prior to the invention of the LED, street construction safety flasher lights used neon lamps which can be lit on microamps. These things ran for years on a dry cell battery and didn't even require an on / off switch.

With the advent of super high brightness LED's that can be lit on microwatts, people are fooling themselves if they think there is anything special about Lasersaber circuits. They are just oscillators that pulse leds with microwatts. Why is there no attempt to add a current shunt resistor and make meaningful measurements? Or take a real close look at the brightness vs. power input curve of the new LED's.

Notice how no one is doing a real scientific energy analysis of charge in Joules on the capacitor vs. charge dissipated per pulse into the LED's.

All the hoopla about run time is meaningless unless you know what the initial charge and dissipation per cycle is.

Now if it ran forever, that would be a different story, but it doesn't. Why does Lasersaber not scale his units up to deliver a few watts?

In the free energy circus, come see the bearded lady in the tent next door.

Still it's all fun to play with, but no serious science here.

[Slider2732]

@Hoppy - Thank you for your post.
A question - how is it known that a device will not run as presented in a video, unless interested experimenters show their own findings ?
To visibly dismiss the attempts of others by association, can only deliver a passive aggressive stance. By being thumbed down by association, the video is not being appraised for the uploaders camera work, presenting style or content.    
And that is the problem - people wish to discover whether circuits work as demonstrated by another and will wish to be socially inclusive while they do so.

@ION - Fascinating to hear of the safety flashers. I know that as a kid in the 1970's (in the UK) they used 6V filament bulbs and a large 6V battery...mainly because a cousin of mine rode down a street once on his bike and put 2 of them in a plastic bag, without even slowing down there he was, riding off mid evening through traffic, with yellow flashes sparkling over the handlebars !
In my opinion, Lasersaber's Stubblefield magnetics coil and the HV output SJR are excellent learning circuits. Bringing century old experimenters methods back to the fore for another look. His presentations are crisp and clear, he articulates well and is a true proponent of exploring the practicalities of low energy devices in a wasteful world. He may make errors, but presents what he knows and publishes everything.


Here's a very relevant case in point regarding LED run times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JKua41FEI
The white LED would run for an hour, from a 2200uF capacitor.
Explanations of dielectric absorption and LED resistance being the factors were delivered kindly, by a couple of people.
The video remains posted, albeit nowadays with 'Solved' in the title, for others who may find themselves with a similar situation.

[PhysicsProf]

  Good points. 
ION: "Now if it ran forever, that would be a different story..."  right -- and THAT (I understand) is the goal that LS and others have in mind.

[Hoppy]

@Hoppy - Thank you for your post.
A question - how is it known that a device will not run as presented in a video, unless interested experimenters show their own findings ?
To visibly dismiss the attempts of others by association, can only deliver a passive aggressive stance. By being thumbed down by association, the video is not being appraised for the uploaders camera work, presenting style or content.    
And that is the problem - people wish to discover whether circuits work as demonstrated by another and will wish to be socially inclusive while they do so.

I'm only dismissing Akula's self running claims in this thread, as I detect visible evidence that his garden video is faked and because of this I strongly suspect that his LED devices are faked. As previously stated, I am not thumbing down yours or Lasersaber's presentations. I'm all for replication attempts and social interaction whist doing so and in both yours and Lasersaber's presentations, it has been possible for others, including myself,  to replicate the effects demonstrated because sufficient detail has been presented. In contrast, Akula's presentations lack good quality detail for replication and worse, the information that is presented is confusing in respect of never knowing which of the many schematics presented applies to any particular device! Presentations like this do not deserve to be taken seriously and certainly deserve criticism in my opinion. I hope I have answered your question adequately.

Hoppy

[ion]

I guess I'm one of those those ninnies, but you see, I was building flasher circuits in the early 50's and LED flashers in the late 60's.

Somewhere in my library I have a thick compendium of Neon, incandescent and LED pulser circuits collected over 50 years with hundreds of designs.

I don't really see anything novel going on except a lot of people getting very excited that are way down the learning curve of how to engineer a pwm led pulser and what goes with good engineering is the ability to make meaningful power measurements.

This includes quantitative measurements of light power output which is rarely mentioned.

My watch dissipates a few microwatts with each tick as does my battery operated clock on the wall, is anyone getting excited about that?

I encourage all the novice experimentation, I did it as a kid, and still do it. I am happy there are folks doing this. Just saying that if you want to get up the learning curve real fast its good to open a book and really try to understand what is happening  with your circuits, scope waveforms, circuit changes and why it is happening.

Devoid of this, its all cut and try, stumble around.

But it's all good, no rain on anyone's parade, that's how some of us learn.

[PhysicsProf]

Right.
OK, another vid today from LS.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EkXNRWAi1Y&feature=em-uploademail

[bte]

In my opinion, we should be focusing heavily on Spherics' original tetrahedral design. It doesn't have to be pulsed much faster than a few kHz if you put an electromagnet around the whole assembly. This puts it in the reach of everyone. A serious alternative energy tech puts out serious amounts of power. Build it, you won't be disappointed!

[ion]

Right.
OK, another vid today from LS.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EkXNRWAi1Y&feature=em-uploademail

If any one is interested I can explain LS's latest video and why nothing special is happening, although it looks to the eye like there is a improvement.

I'm sure Hoppy and a few others can also explain it.

[TinMan]

If any one is interested I can explain LS's latest video and why nothing special is happening, although it looks to the eye like there is a improvement.

I'm sure Hoppy and a few others can also explain it.

A couple of thing's
1-The sjr LED's are flashing,although we cant see that.This mean's they are not alway's drawing power like the DC one's.
2-He is also burning up power within the resistor.

[Slider2732]

@Hoppy - Yes and thank you for the explanation   

@ION - A negative ninnie would be someone who attacks passively aggressively, with no need felt to explain their stance. I've borrowed it as a paraphrase from Stanton Friedman.   
Do you have an LED circuit that would raise the bar here ? Something we might in fact assist LS with, by replicating ?
It would cut the stumble, which is a very good point if we can build on and with that library