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Author Topic: Bi-toroid  (Read 118791 times)
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Giantkiller:

Thanks for the link.  You have a really beautiful digital scope.

Two thoughts for your consideration.  The first is when you use an LED connected to a small sensing coil you may want to try connecting two LEDs instead, in opposite directions.  That way you have more symmetry in the setup.  The pick-up coil sees a more "even" load and by extension the pick-up coil puts a more "even" load on whatever other circuit it is affecting.  For high power sensing applications, going to a single incandescent light bulb with an optional sensing resistor is also interesting.  This is a linear load, as opposed to diodes which are a non-linear load.

The more I think of it I can offer an even better suggestion for a "pure" sensing coil.  The pure sensing coil would be designed to sniff out changing magnetic flux without imposing any significant load on your real circuit.  You could wind a new small bobbin of wire with a slight difference.  When you are half-way through the winding (counting number of turns) you strip the insulation and solder a center-tap ground wire.  Then you finish off winding the bobbin.  Then you put a diode on each end of the coil pointing away from the center tap.  You solder the two diode outputs together.  Let's call this junction between the two diodes the "Sense+" connection point.  Let's call the center-tap ground wire the "Sense-" connection point.

Now we just need to connect a small parallel RC network between the Sense+ and Sense- connection points to complete the sensing device.  Since you are working with fairly high frequencies we can use a time constant for the RC network that is quite short, let's say 0.1 seconds.  Let's say that the resistor we will use is going to be 100K ohm.  Therefore the capacitor can be (0.1/100,000) = 1 microfarad.

So, you solder a 100Kohm resistor in parallel with a 1 microfarad capacitor, and then you solder this across the Sense+ and Sense- connections.  You do this all right on your little bobbin sense coil itself, and you make two terminal points for the Sense+ and Sense- connections.  Then you just buy a cheap digital multimeter for $20 and you set it on DC voltage and connect it up to the Sense+ and Sense- points.  The whole thing is so cheap you can even solder the multimeter wires directly to the sensing coil setup and have a dedicated flux sensor coil with a digital display.

You end up with a neat little sensing coil that puts a microscopic load on any circuit you are trying to sniff out and it has a digital display to boot!

My second suggestion is just a generic suggestion for all of your coil experiments.  Many experimenters put square waves into their coils and if you have digital driver chips there is not much you can do about that.  However, you would be much better off using a function generator set to sine wave output and using optional analog op-amp chips if you need to buffer the function generator output and create multiple versions of the signal.  That way you can sweep sine wave frequencies through the coils and observe resonance points, etc.  In a general sense, you always are interested in looking at how a coil-based circuit responds to a sine wave as you sweep through a frequency range and don't want to sweep a square wave through a frequency range.  The reason is simple.  When you sweep a sine wave through a frequency range you are just sweeping a single frequency and you can see how the coil circuit responds to a single frequency.  In contrast when you sweep a square wave, you are feeding hundreds of different frequencies into the coil circuit at the same time and therefore the output from the circuit is a mixture of responses to hundreds of separate frequencies all blended together.  It's "foggy" as opposed to sine wave excitation which is "clear."

MileHigh

   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
I thrive on camaraderie!
Tnx for the scope comps. I got that portable for 400 less than the 800usd price.
I will make the sense coil. I have a mag field reader already but always like more tools.
In regards to :
It's "foggy" as opposed to sine wave excitation which is "clear."

Jason is supposed to send out his sine sweeper board he made. I bought one to go along with the HV square wave he designed previously.
And yes the foggy noise causes interference with the properties of pumping resonance with 1st 3rd 5th and 7th harmonics. Keely stressed this many times over. With squares waves the noise shunts the purity. This truth you let out gains trust. The pumping of the magnetic field is better controlled with chords than lightning storms. The truth will come out if there is peace amongst us. Contention shuts me off.
Jason's board only puts out 2 freqs. I pressed him to be able to add more channels out. We succeeded in finding a way. I need 6 channels to produce Keely's 2 chords. Keely pumps air into whistles(church pipes) to produce the chords necessary. Oops big secret fell out of my mouth... And with 6 channels(2 chords) the TPU looks like a very, very small accomplishment. This is an exact way to reproduce what Hutchison has purported as a mystery. Apply the correct frequencies Keely and Russell have matched up against the respective target/matter. It is all so very simple. An HV magnetic field against an aluminum plate is the first clue. Just lower the power as you correct the frequencies and wave type towards your target composition. Can you say 'Stan Meyer'?

Giantkiller:

Thanks for the link.  You have a really beautiful digital scope.

Two thoughts for your consideration.  The first is when you use an LED connected to a small sensing coil you may want to try connecting two LEDs instead, in opposite directions.  That way you have more symmetry in the setup.  The pick-up coil sees a more "even" load and by extension the pick-up coil puts a more "even" load on whatever other circuit it is affecting.  For high power sensing applications, going to a single incandescent light bulb with an optional sensing resistor is also interesting.  This is a linear load, as opposed to diodes which are a non-linear load.

The more I think of it I can offer an even better suggestion for a "pure" sensing coil.  The pure sensing coil would be designed to sniff out changing magnetic flux without imposing any significant load on your real circuit.  You could wind a new small bobbin of wire with a slight difference.  When you are half-way through the winding (counting number of turns) you strip the insulation and solder a center-tap ground wire.  Then you finish off winding the bobbin.  Then you put a diode on each end of the coil pointing away from the center tap.  You solder the two diode outputs together.  Let's call this junction between the two diodes the "Sense+" connection point.  Let's call the center-tap ground wire the "Sense-" connection point.

Now we just need to connect a small parallel RC network between the Sense+ and Sense- connection points to complete the sensing device.  Since you are working with fairly high frequencies we can use a time constant for the RC network that is quite short, let's say 0.1 seconds.  Let's say that the resistor we will use is going to be 100K ohm.  Therefore the capacitor can be (0.1/100,000) = 1 microfarad.

So, you solder a 100Kohm resistor in parallel with a 1 microfarad capacitor, and then you solder this across the Sense+ and Sense- connections.  You do this all right on your little bobbin sense coil itself, and you make two terminal points for the Sense+ and Sense- connections.  Then you just buy a cheap digital multimeter for $20 and you set it on DC voltage and connect it up to the Sense+ and Sense- points.  The whole thing is so cheap you can even solder the multimeter wires directly to the sensing coil setup and have a dedicated flux sensor coil with a digital display.

You end up with a neat little sensing coil that puts a microscopic load on any circuit you are trying to sniff out and it has a digital display to boot!

My second suggestion is just a generic suggestion for all of your coil experiments.  Many experimenters put square waves into their coils and if you have digital driver chips there is not much you can do about that.  However, you would be much better off using a function generator set to sine wave output and using optional analog op-amp chips if you need to buffer the function generator output and create multiple versions of the signal.  That way you can sweep sine wave frequencies through the coils and observe resonance points, etc.  In a general sense, you always are interested in looking at how a coil-based circuit responds to a sine wave as you sweep through a frequency range and don't want to sweep a square wave through a frequency range.  The reason is simple.  When you sweep a sine wave through a frequency range you are just sweeping a single frequency and you can see how the coil circuit responds to a single frequency.  In contrast when you sweep a square wave, you are feeding hundreds of different frequencies into the coil circuit at the same time and therefore the output from the circuit is a mixture of responses to hundreds of separate frequencies all blended together.  It's "foggy" as opposed to sine wave excitation which is "clear."

MileHigh




---------------------------
   
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Giantkiller:

A square wave can be viewed as a fundamental sine wave with a series of sine wave harmonics added to it with different amplitudes.  Here is a fun clip that I stumbled upon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6crWlxKB_E

If you are brave you can try searching on "fourier transform of a square wave" and "fourier transform of a sine wave."

MileHigh
   

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Posts: 1452
Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Alienscientist on youtube shows an interesting application of sine waves against matter to control the distance and alignment of atoms in matter(aka 'The Lattice').
The zero crossing transitions always are 'Close' to the midpoint point between the atoms. He contends that this place is the focal point of the activity of what the application is trying to achieve whether its temperature change or stressing the matter. It is simply applying control to the pressure gradiant of the lattice. Much like hitting a nail or pulling a nail with a hammer. Same idea. We can look at lower and lower levels of manipulation which inturn control more and more of what the target is to do under our control.
With sine waves we have the control to push at the right point to achieve harmonic movement/pressure. Else noise just gives noise.

Currently at the frequencies we are talking about to drive the current coil configurations like 1k, 3k, 4k a magamp could be used to give sine output with an input of square waves. I'll check with Jason to see the status of the PC based sine sweepers. Or I'll have to build up some rig to gain some time back.


---------------------------
   
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Posts: 3048
A new movie from Thane

http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/2010/12/09/zero-power-factor-transformer-for-christmas-mov/

Any body know what he's claiming here ? [Still sound problems with My PC]

Chet
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I don't know what he is claiming, but that's been the case for me since the beginning anyway.

However, it appears his input power is about 130W, and output power about 15W.  :o

He doesn't speak in this video, so you haven't missed anything.

.99


---------------------------
Never let your belligerence get in the way of your brilliance!
   
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It's a strange clip.  You can see at the end of clip, at 3:49, that he is way over-saturating the primary core.  The supply current to the core becomes a triangle wave, and the moment the core gets saturated you see the voltage output from the variac shoot up because the core doesn't appear as a real load anymore.  So the voltage waveform across the light bulb load would be a square wave and not a sine wave.

He is using clamp-on current meters.  I don't know too much about them, but I would suspect that the vast a majority of them are "dumb" and only work with sine-wave current waveforms.  I think clamp-on current meters are used mainly by electricians, and they don't normally concern themselves with true-RMS readings (at least from what I can remember, before there were PCs everywhere with switching power supplies).

It looks like he is cranking up his source voltage to saturate the primary core even sooner to "fake" a 90-degree power factor.  His power factor formula doesn't even apply anymore because he is not working with voltage and current waveforms that are sinusoidal in form.

As Poynt previously stated, here is where a simple Kill-a-Watt meter would come in handy.  You assume that the Kill-a-Watt meter has a microcontroller inside it that can sample the voltage and current waveforms several thousand times per 60 Hz cycle and do a true wattage and non-standard power factor calculation.  In other words, it's almost like a dedicated DSO with built-in math processing.

The Kill-a-Watt meter would show real power being consumed as he changes the light bulb load configuration.

I will also restate that the power companies do not want to drive reactive loads.  The real current that flows through the mains supply transformer and the Thane-style transformer still burns off power in both transformer windings, so nothing is "free" at all.  That problem also gets reflected back to the high-tension lines and burns off power there also.

MileHigh
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Thanks for that ION.

I would expect the choke would also mitigate HF noise getting back into the meter, even though the variac would facilitate this function to a degree as well.

 :D

.99


---------------------------
Never let your belligerence get in the way of your brilliance!
   
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Just a comment that I forgot to mention about Thane's last clip.  At the very end he turns the variac way down and the voltage and current wave forms return back to being normal sine waves.  When that happens you can clearly see that the voltage and current waveforms are not 90 degrees out of phase, showing that real power is being consumed.  Thane doesn't say anything during this portion of the clip.

MileHigh
   
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Feynman posted this question on Thanes thread at OU

I'm interested if there were any successful replications of Thane's anomalous phenomenon; I saw pictures of tests with non-standard flux return paths in transformers on the other thread.
------------------------
I told Feynman I knew of one Fellow that was working on this and I would PM him for info!
Reply to PM

Teslaalset
Quote:

Hi Chet,

I noticed the recent postings of you and Feynman here at OU.
Indeed, I am (still) involved in Thanes work much of my spare time.
I have established a cooperation with Thane under NDA, so I can't speak too openly about our progress.

All I can say is, his findings are real and confirmed by himself and another evaluator (not me). I have confirmed his bi-toroid principle by FEMM modeling (also under NDA, so I can't share the model).
The principle has some critical issues, Power Factor = 1 can occur however under specific conditions.

This message may be freely distributed.

He also added this "Note"

"To avoid confusion, I may be a bit unclear in my message to Chet:

Under specific conditions:
Input: PF = 0
Output: PF = 1 (real power is delivered)

I am sure you understand what this means.
   
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I definitely believe Thane's phenomenon is real.  

I am not a free energy skeptic by any stretch... non-textbook electromagnetic/electrogravitic technology has been actively suppressed for many years, certainly at least since WWII.

The question regarding Thane for me, since he doesn't want to open-source (and I have other ways I KNOW will work, for example HHO gas is inherently over-unity), is more of an academic interest, rather than a replication attempt:

(1) Is he using partial-flux saturation of the core to change the hysterisis to get useable energy out during the AC cycle?
(2) Is he using a design which eliminates (or at least modifies , the back-emf flux return path)



Again, it could be individual, or a combination of (1) and (2).    My 2c anyways.


For more info, see Thane's patent, Canadian patent CA2594905
http://www.rexresearch.com/heins/heins.htm















   
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Feynman:

Welcome to the site.  I'm curious as to why you would say that HHO gas is inherently over-unity.

Thanks,

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Feynman:

Welcome to the site.  I'm curious as to why you would say that HHO gas is inherently over-unity.

Thanks,

MileHigh

Me too!
   
Group: Guest
This is off topic, but I'll post soemthing brief:

There's a youtube video on PesWiki of showing some guy in Texas running his car on a standard HHO setup.   Just water, no gasoline.  He injects the HHO directly into the fuel line or something like that, bypassing the air intake manifold.

There's also a second video on there of some guys in Germany closed-looping a generator and alternator (genset) with HHO gas fed into it.   Just look on the PESwiki energy 2011 article for these two videos.

Anyway , Both setups (the genset and the water-car) -- assuming both are legit, which I think they are -- are NOT using Stanley Meyer HV-type water splitting, nor Bob Boyce type resonant water splitting... yet still are producing 2-3L/min of high quality HHO. (This is from measurements).  If 3L-6L / min can run an engine under certain circumstances, we need to rethink our assumptions .  There are possibilities to why.... perhaps HHO is in a slightly different molecular configuration after splitting and recombination (perhaps it is some sort of linear, complex, or resonant ionic or hydrogen bonding of H2 and O2,  rather than the standard SP3 hybridized orbitals in source unsplit water, or the 2:1 molar ratio of diatomic gasses in the official knowledge)  .  It doesn't matter why if it works, assuming it does (as I have not tested personally, but am in contact with people who have).

For the electrolysis, the distance between plates should be 3mm.  Current density should be <30-40mA per cm^2 of the plates.  Voltage per cell should not exceed 2V.

A small 2.5HP genset can run on 3L/min hydroxy when of high quality and diluted with 99% air , 1% HHO.  The power consumption should be around 500-600W to split the water, but off a 2.5HP generator i think the output is more like 1kW.

 More info to come over the weekend, this is just a quick overview.  I haven't tested this method personally, but I will.

PS

That 3L-6L/min is from a 60cell /120cell series electroliser (fed from the 120VAC/240VAC mains through full-wave rectifier) is more than sufficient to run a small generator to close the loop.  HHO is burns 1000 times faster than gasoline -- it actually detonates.    

All that needs to be done apparently, to replicate these closed loop HHO setups, is to make modifications to cause the ignition spark to fire somewhere between -40% TDC and +40% TDC and remove the firing of the waste spark.   Thank you .
   
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I see. 

The guy that runs his car on 100% HHO is not by any chance the now, notorious, Fast Freddy is he?  If so you can scratch that straight away.

Quote
A small 2.5HP genset can run on 3L/min hydroxy when of high quality and diluted with 99% air , 1% HHO.

Is that loaded or unloaded?  Will 3 litre/min provide enough gas to meet a 99/1 air/gas ratio?

What do you mean by 'quality' of hydroxy gas?  That is, what in your view would be the fundamental difference between high and low quality hydroxy? 

   
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Feynman
I would like to introduce you to Farah Day,
She knows an awful lot about HHO,And sometimes she has an Opinion!

Chet
PS This could go long [HHO}
Farrah has a few threads for this ??
PPS
She's a Hugh asset to this community!
   
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I see.  

The guy that runs his car on 100% HHO is not by any chance the now, notorious, Fast Freddy is he?  If so you can scratch that straight away.

Yes, that's the guy I used as an example.  At least one of them. Why should we scratch him off?

The person I am talking to is not Fast Freedy btw.

Quote

Is that loaded or unloaded?  Will 3 litre/min provide enough gas to meet a 99/1 air/gas ratio?

Unloaded , at idle, 3L/min on 2.5HP generator into intake manifold , of 'high-quality'  (no definition exists yet of what this term means)  HHO.  Apparently that 3L per min is on the low side of the gas requirement, and won't power a load ;  you'd probably need to double it to 6L/min to do this 'for reals' with the same generator (this has also been done by some German guys)  

Quote
What do you mean by 'quality' of hydroxy gas?  That is, what in your view would be the fundamental difference between high and low quality hydroxy?  

I don't know.  First step , for me, is to build a 60-cell electrolysis unit run off 120VAC mains run through full-wave rectifier with no capacitor smoothing into my series cell, such that I get around 2V potential per cell.   Then I'll measure displacement.

In terms of the actual 'quality' of the gas, I assume this has something to do with quantum effects during gas production, but I really have no idea.   It could be something as simple as gas purity or as complex as quantum electrodynamics.

I'll start a new thread to discuss this .   I'm not making any 'claim' here -- rather I'm relaying very credible information from a new associate who has provided all this information for free.   I will not be making any claims on this phenomenon until I conduct my own experiments.   But this is at the top of my short list of things I will be building.

   
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Here is the link to the HHO thread I started to discuss the HHO Overunity, since we are getting off topic here from Thane's bi-toroid...

HHO Overunity Discussion
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=746.msg11583#msg11583
   
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Hey Feynman,
Where'd yah go?
Well the Gabriel Device is Makin Bacon [according to the inventor]
Here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10518.msg282755#new

Apparently it works along the lines of Thane's "Mary Joe" device.
Thane offered the inventor assistance with patents ,the inventor declined a patent assist and decided to open source!
This should get interesting..................

Chet
   
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Posts: 3048
1200% Overunity and climbing.............

A question from aaron 5120 to Mavendex [gabriel inventer]

 aaron5120 on Today at 06:58:43 AMHi,

 @Mavendex,
I have been reading quietly this thread so far, and did not post anything here. But I am very interested to try replicate your latest resuts of the Gabriel Device Version2.0
I have some crucial questions to ask before I proceed to buy the components for the replication, which are not cheap. If you don't mind, here they are:
1) The primary should be tin plated copper wire, insulated in plastic, AWG #24, one layer, wounded counter clockwise( from right to left, in opposite direction of the clock hands), right?
2) The primary core shoud be soft iron toroida halves, those used in the exhaust tubing( donuts) ?
3) These halves shoud be insulated one from the other i order to prevent arcing from the secondaries windings, right?
4) The secondary windings will be 300 turns of AWG24 magnet wire wounded clockwise( from left to right, in the direction of the clock hands), right?
5) How to calculate the proportion of wires used both in the primary and the secondary? How many turns in the primary for how many turns to the secondary?
6)The device operates basically in the 50Hz/60Hz frequency of the public grid, right?
7) The toaster's purpose is to limit current flow in the primary, as a resistive current limiting component, right?
 The secondary loading should be strictly resistive, such as common light bulbs, right?
9) There is no need for impedance matching for the secondary loading, right?
For the benefit of all the replicators in the thread, it would very nice if you can answer these questions openly in a public post in the Gabrial device thread.
Thanks a lot, and please keep on experimenting, and we appreciate you very much for open sourcing this discovery.
aaron5120


Mavendex
Answer
Quote:





Hello I will answer as best as I can,

This version with the new shell needs to be recalibrated for wire and what not I did change more than one variable and have to compensate for these changes, be assured for every 1 watt in we get 12 out thus far.

1)the primary I have found, should no longer be tin plated copper and normal magnet wire  will work better in this instance of the new shell, optimal sizing of wire is still being experimented with I have wound it counter clockwise and towards myself it does make a difference if you are winding away or towards your self, the toroidal halves
2) I am useing are mild steel or cold rolled steel, feel free to experiment with other metals as this is a cage.
3)yes the halves should insulate from each other other wise the effect is no longer present
4)The direction of the primary is the same as the secondary as far as winding, conventional winding ratios are out the window, how ever much is on the secondary has a ceiling applied and will always be present. currently I have 3.1 ohms of resistance 16 awg wire on the secondary which is yielding a ceiling of 180 volts
5)on this current size and still needs to be calculated and restructured as far as the math goes but as is with current setup 97 turns of the primary will get you to the sweet spot, again winding ratios calculations for conventional transformers are null
6)yes that is how I made it although I do plan to experiment with other frequencies for other projects
7)yes the toaster is my limiter, I will be changing that soon
8)yes to measure your output I would use light bulbs, wear sunglasses and have a meter (be advised if you turn off the secondary before the primary you will get a backspike)
9)impedance matching as far as I know there is no need, again the device is being recalibrated

I am posting these questions in good faith and hope everyone's replications can match or exceed what I have done.
Be aware patent application is being filed on this device for commercial benefit and to get the ball rolling a bit quicker I am doing this with Thane Heins, also be aware I believe everyone has the right to free energy, and if you replicate/duplicate for your own self and supply power for your own self and build it your own self  without making money and saving money doesn't equal making money, that is quite alright with me more power to ya. If you so choose that you would like to make money with these devices I would contact either myself or Thane to setup licensing which he has a well thought out agreement that is mutually beneficial for all parties involved.

Dave
Mavendex
   
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