EZ Spin motor - homebuild

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Author Topic: EZ Spin motor - homebuild (Read 55949 times)

TinMan	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #75 on: 2015-01-25, 23:41:18 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2015-01-25, 20:52:24 "Our OU toy"?? Now that's funny... TinMan - and Grum -- any photos of these pushing-the-envelope toys? Then we can shop around, see if we can get our ou toys on e-bay... That would be a hoot! Wife will be heading off to work shortly,and the video camera is alreading charging. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Chet K	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #76 on: 2015-01-26, 01:29:28 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4010	Oh man..... a family heirloom taken to the slaughter.... and you do remember rule number one in the OU builders hand book rule number 1] NEVER TAKE APART A WORKING OU TOY !! rule number 2] SEE RULE NUMBER ONE...

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #77 on: 2015-01-26, 01:33:39 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	@Gyula, thanks again...learning lots here. I had always thought that MOSFET diodes were around 1.2-1.5V and often higher. I'd certainly never considered them for anything but MOSFET work. Very interesting indeed. Will certainly peruse those datasheets. I did look at one just now and saw it's small signal transistor type of packaging. Makes me wonder about some unknowns seen on scrap circuitboards (the source for most projects parts). @TinMan, I find it hilarious how some fellas half a world away know what you're doing, but your own wife doesn't, AND that you are posting about it, with the camera charging up right when she's there ! LOL Have built the 2nd motor. 8 coils, 4000 ohms seemingly on the dot. Coils have read between 465ohms and 544ohms, as taken from the circuits. It's all completely rough, but that was the idea, to see the improvements based on the rough. The rotor is, get this, from one of my wife's old tobacco chew tins ! She was never much of a fan of cigarettes, so opted for the chew. Stored a bunch of them in a drawer in case I needed them for anything, such as Altoid tin projects. Hotglue has been used, it allows fine movements by remelting with the soldering iron (yep that old trick). Though, Fix-All and superglue don't seem to want to stick at the moment, warmer days needed. It did an hour on a 0.1F cap charged to 0.9V, not bad for a first run. It's really slow though, because of the ceramic magnet weight. But, at least we know that ceramics will do an hour, if you see what I mean [youtube]KQjBLgmBAmM[/youtube] --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #78 on: 2015-01-26, 01:45:00 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Hey Chet, let's just hope the video doesn't contain this line: "Oh cripes, she's gonna kill me" --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Chet K	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #79 on: 2015-01-26, 02:47:38 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4010	Wow talk about serendipitous moments... I was just thinking about a Frantic Brad trying to get things Back where they belong Ball bearings and springs flying out [the usual nightmares] and then a plea to the populous for a quick replacement _until_ he gets this one back together ... so I clicked onto this thread to see where he's at and there you were with the same thought.... funny stuff this OU Toy Biz... But knowing Brad and the seriousness of this operation,I'm sure he suited up in the white suit with the pressure mask and is working in his 1.5 atmosphere, clean .dustless and hermetically sealed safety room. this is a very touchy and sensitive area...taking apart the wifes historical [17 year] family heirloom for OU research wars have been started over lesser offences. « Last Edit: 2015-01-26, 03:45:26 by Chet K »

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #80 on: 2015-01-26, 04:07:17 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Well yeah, how do you think the Irish got jailed and then carted off to Oz Those wives wanted their fellas at more than arms length ! Only joking, of course. Here is the 'Spider Rotor'. The other is too heavy, i've decided, great low speed performance but that's not the idea. So, its spindly legged self is on test at the moment. Will probably have to grab some N52 5mmx3mm, similar to those on the first build. This was fun however, chopping up a hard drive magnet with pliers. [youtube]2L3FMKv05Ac[/youtube] Do let me know if anyone following has bandwidth issues, if on cellphones and the like for videos and i'll post pics of progress. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

TinMan	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #81 on: 2015-01-26, 04:46:46 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Well just joining all the videos together,and i managed to put it back together with no left over screw's-->which would have been preaty silly as it only has two screws in it Anyway-Slider,you will never guess as to what circuit this thing has in it lol. Will upload video,and then post here as soon as it's done. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #82 on: 2015-01-26, 05:02:02 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Quote Slider @TinMan, I find it hilarious how some fellas half a world away know what you're doing, but your own wife doesn't, AND that you are posting about it, with the camera charging up right when she's there ! LOL It is funny when you look at it like that,but my loving wife doesn't pay much attention to this crazy stuff i do-although she gave me a mouth full of disapproval when i electrocuted my self a couple of months back. After proof watching the video,i just realised that i never did the capacitor run time test lol,trying to get everything done quickly so as i could get it all back together before !she who must be obeyed! returned home. Ah-my wife isn't that bad,I'm sure she would understand . I remember some years back taking apart her electric cake mixer so as i could see how the speed controller worked. It all went back together,and worked just fine-except for that scraping noise when it was running. She of course took this opportunity to go purchase a new cake mixer,but on the up side of that,i got the old one --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #83 on: 2015-01-26, 05:27:18 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Quote except for that scraping noise when it was running You trapped the family cat in it ? Looking forward to the vid ! As a guess, I'd say a high ohm coil, run cap, pair of transistors Collector to Base, throttled heavily with a large value resistor. Or, something completely related to this thread project, like a high ohm coil and a reed switch. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

TinMan	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #84 on: 2015-01-26, 08:06:52 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9jj45CJsVk --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumage	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #85 on: 2015-01-26, 13:46:52 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2734	Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2015-01-25, 20:52:24 "Our OU toy"?? Now that's funny... TinMan - and Grum -- any photos of these pushing-the-envelope toys? Then we can shop around, see if we can get our ou toys on e-bay... That would be a hoot! Dear Steve. Photos attached. It seems ASDA, now part of Wall Mart, the term " Long Life " certainly lives' up to it's name !! Both cells read slightly > 1.5 VDC, 13 years on. This toy was bought for our first Grandson who is rapidly approaching his 16 th birthday !! Cheers Graham. Mark, I feel we are hijacking your thread, my apologies. ------------------------ EZ Spin motor - homebuild out1.JPG (229.45 kB, 960x720 - viewed 635 times.) EZ Spin motor - homebuild out2.JPG (297.69 kB, 960x720 - viewed 576 times.) --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

PhysicsProf	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #86 on: 2015-01-26, 17:48:29 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2993	Very interesting, Tinman and Grum Courageous of you to take the toy apart while your wife was out, Tinny -- made me laugh. VEry simple device indeed... but how did the cap increase in voltage with the swinging of the pendulum? that observation of yours, I don't understand yet...

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #87 on: 2015-01-26, 18:55:23 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Great video Tinman Was completely surprised to see that the transistor was a regular vanilla C945. A replication will be made, using 2 x 'dancing' coils on top of each other (likely a new thread). Oh no problems at all here Grum, all is related to efficiency. I'm delighted about the learning from all the great posts. Fun too Steve, I think this is the circuit operation (will draw it out at some point, have just worked it out in the mind): ETA, am editing this as I take another look at TinMan's video, because it seems that 2 wires connect to the Emitter ! Negative from battery goes through a coil winding to the Emitter of the transistor. Positive of the battery goes to the Collector. A connection goes from the Emitter as the 2nd coil, around to the Base. That's the full circuit. When the dolphin rocks, the energy that would be picked up by the Base of the transistor is induced into the first described winding, sending it back to the battery. The EB diode of the transistor works somewhat like the reed switch of the EZ Spin, completing the return circuit. So - when a pulse is fired through the transistor, it sends the dolphin rocking and when the dolphin comes back from the pulse and the transistor is off, the energy goes into the battery. On the next swing back down, the voltage is induced in the correct direction for the Base and the transistor fires again. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Grumage	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #88 on: 2015-01-26, 19:44:42 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2734	Dear All. So he, who shall remain nameless, or at least expletive deletive, got copied by the Chinese, who created an almost self running house decoration !! Irony ?? Brad, how do you think the decoration might run connected to a couple of 5 F 5V super caps connected in series ? Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

PhysicsProf	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #89 on: 2015-01-27, 01:09:11 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2993	Quote A replication will be made, using 2 x 'dancing' coils on top of each other (likely a new thread). Great! you're a mile ahead of me, Mark! We'll see what the circuit looks like as you get it (wish Tinman could have rotated that circuit a little more..) Note: From what Mark describes, it differs significantly from the Ber-dini SSG (IMO).

PhysicsProf	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #90 on: 2015-01-27, 01:48:57 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 2993	Mark - keep in mind while doing the replication, if you can think how any energy floating around can be re-captured, that's a good goal. IOW, the coil fly-back, is that being recaptured? perhaps the return swing of the pendulum also... I like the simple pendulum action... there is already a type of resonance there, as the period P is well defined and depends on the length L of the pendulum (from pivot point = low friction!) to the center of mass of the mass M (in this case, magnet). Note that the period of the motion T is simply: P = 2pisqrt{L/g} plugging in 9.81m/sec^2 for g, we find to a good approximation: P = 2*sqrt(L) in SI units. So if L=1m, then the period is P = 2 seconds! The period is the time for round-trip, out and back, returning to the same spot. The shorter the "string", the shorter the Period - but it does not depend on the mass of the pendulum at all! just depends on the length L of the pendulum.

TinMan	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #91 on: 2015-01-27, 01:58:41 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2015-01-26, 17:48:29 Very interesting, Tinman and Grum Courageous of you to take the toy apart while your wife was out, Tinny -- made me laugh. VEry simple device indeed... but how did the cap increase in voltage with the swinging of the pendulum? that observation of yours, I don't understand yet... Im not sure Steve, but I think its due to capacitive or inductive coupling between the two coils being in the bifilar situation. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #92 on: 2015-01-27, 02:06:09 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Quote from: Grumage on 2015-01-26, 19:44:42 Dear All. So he, who shall remain nameless, or at least expletive deletive, got copied by the Chinese, who created an almost self running house decoration !! Irony ?? Brad, how do you think the decoration might run connected to a couple of 5 F 5V super caps connected in series ? Cheers Grum. I did run it on the 2200uf cap with a starting voltage of 9.4 volts-same as the battery. But it only ran for about 4 minutes. I thought it would have done much better than this. Im going to have to put my hand in the fire here , and ask my wife if I can carry out some test on it, as there is something I want to try with it. 2.5F @ 9 volts would give a good run time I would think Grum --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #93 on: 2015-01-27, 03:13:19 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	To quote Steve: Quote it does not depend on the mass of the pendulum at all! just depends on the length L of the pendulum. I foresee an excellent use for the heavier ceramic magnets ! To explain, usually nowadays, the 'dancing' toys feature 5mm x 3mm neodymiums. Previously they had larger, heavier ceramics of rough equivalence magnetically. The store manager said on Saturday "last year we had 10 boxes of these devils and they all went in a day"...and there it is. Looking underneath, we see 2013 stamped and so they'll be to the ceramic spec. For the dolphin, the flyback goes through the circuit backwards, enabled by the diode inside the transistor (do correct me if wrong anyone). The very movement of forward and back creates that effect by default, with no extra components required. It's very similar to the EZ Spin and what we know of its ability to return energy. A mod to the dolphin, would be pickup coils up and down the travel distance, at least either side in the middle, where speed is greatest ! To quote Brad: Quote I did run it on the 2200uf cap with a starting voltage of 9.4 volts-same as the battery. But it only ran for about 4 minutes. Aha, good info and thanks for doing that. The first EZ Spin that I made did 1 1/2 minutes on a 1000uF charged to 1V. it's somewhat similar and i'm really wanting to try the 'dancing' coils idea for the extra resistance. Yeah, Brad, do you recall the actual circuit connections ? I'll wing it, as I think I know how it's wired, but would like your input --------------------------------------- Here we have the MicroEZ. It's as small as an 8 coiler can be, using these coils. It was tried as a build, to see if there needed to be a clear 1 coil space between coils, to allow for the phantom pole. As it happens, nope, runs ok lol Not very quick again and i'm really wondering now whether that first 4 coil build is the way forward. Many coils = sipping of voltage/current but slow speed. 1 or 2 coils = high speed, fast power usage....are 4 coils and 2 magnets the Goldilocks zone ? [youtube]4dlKa0xOaSY[/youtube] Edit: Fixed some spacings between coils. There were panel gaps that British Leyland would have been proud of ------------------------ EZ Spin motor - homebuild 102_0146.JPG (125.73 kB, 640x480 - viewed 554 times.) « Last Edit: 2015-01-27, 04:29:39 by Slider2732 » --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

JimBoot	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #94 on: 2015-01-27, 09:58:02 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1707	@tinman and @grum. Our wives should never meet!

TinMan	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #95 on: 2015-01-27, 12:16:31 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4600	Quote from: Slider2732 on 2015-01-27, 03:13:19 To quote Steve:I foresee an excellent use for the heavier ceramic magnets ! To explain, usually nowadays, the 'dancing' toys feature 5mm x 3mm neodymiums. Previously they had larger, heavier ceramics of rough equivalence magnetically. The store manager said on Saturday "last year we had 10 boxes of these devils and they all went in a day"...and there it is. Looking underneath, we see 2013 stamped and so they'll be to the ceramic spec. For the dolphin, the flyback goes through the circuit backwards, enabled by the diode inside the transistor (do correct me if wrong anyone). The very movement of forward and back creates that effect by default, with no extra components required. It's very similar to the EZ Spin and what we know of its ability to return energy. A mod to the dolphin, would be pickup coils up and down the travel distance, at least either side in the middle, where speed is greatest ! To quote Brad:Aha, good info and thanks for doing that. The first EZ Spin that I made did 1 1/2 minutes on a 1000uF charged to 1V. it's somewhat similar and i'm really wanting to try the 'dancing' coils idea for the extra resistance. Yeah, Brad, do you recall the actual circuit connections ? I'll wing it, as I think I know how it's wired, but would like your input --------------------------------------- Here we have the MicroEZ. It's as small as an 8 coiler can be, using these coils. It was tried as a build, to see if there needed to be a clear 1 coil space between coils, to allow for the phantom pole. As it happens, nope, runs ok lol Not very quick again and i'm really wondering now whether that first 4 coil build is the way forward. Many coils = sipping of voltage/current but slow speed. 1 or 2 coils = high speed, fast power usage....are 4 coils and 2 magnets the Goldilocks zone ? [youtube]4dlKa0xOaSY[/youtube] Edit: Fixed some spacings between coils. There were panel gaps that British Leyland would have been proud of It's just the cool joule circuit Mark, with both coils wound on the same former. What you didnt see was the small ferite rod that fited into the small hole in the coil former So start of one coil to base, and end to emitter.start of the second coil to battery +, and end of second coil to collector. Negative of battery to emitter. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #96 on: 2015-01-27, 17:14:30 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Thanks Brad...thought so, but also the Positive red wire seemed to have a thin wire connection within the solder and that confused. It is probably a loose strand from that battery connection I have my best version of your Cool Joule still running. It's right there on the table. Took some video a few days ago with various projects as an update, but didn't post it, the CJ was in that....kinda think I should have posted it, to link with the Dolphin. Speaking of wives, the table you see in these vids was 'new' to us last year and Julie wanted it kept clean and nice, with a vase and flowers. Errrrrm cough Question - after watching a video by Erfinder and considering the lack of speed etc of this latest MicroEZ build. Can I short every other coil and gain anything ? Edit - and the update. It's pretty funny, I linked every other one, therefore simply bypassing every other one. Spun it up by hand, with 0.855V on the cap and it slowed immediately to a crawl...and kept on going ! About 1 RPM. The 4 will now be tried as paralleled gen coils instead. « Last Edit: 2015-01-27, 17:45:38 by Slider2732 » --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Bob Smith	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #97 on: 2015-01-27, 17:55:40 »
Jr. Member Posts: 71	Quote from: Slider2732 on 2015-01-27, 17:14:30 Question - after watching a video by Erfinder and considering the lack of speed etc of this latest MicroEZ build. Can I short every other coil and gain anything ? I can't comment on the shorted coil question, however, the arrangement of E's coils is important to taking advantage of Lenz' law. I can't see a reason why it can't be incorporated into this setup. Bob

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #98 on: 2015-01-27, 18:37:51 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Thanks Bob. Maybe there are clues in the latest set of experiments this morning, because it's odd to me and at least needs clarification from others. All tests have been with approx 0.9V on the 0.1F capacitor, which has been connected throughout. The MicroEZ had 4 magnets, 8 coils and ran slowly. Shorting every other coil to basically remove every other resistance, resulted in 1 RPM running. Well, there were now 4 magnets and 4 coils, fair enough. 2 magnets were taken off - same thing, 1 RPM, yet it was exactly the same configuration as the 29hr original build ! I decided that it must be some kind of friction issue, because without the reed it still slowed itself rapidly to a stop. Adding graphite to the needle still resulted in a rapid slow and stop with no reed switch. I disconnected 1 coil, so the path was now open circuit and the rotor spun around very freely again, to a very gradual free running stop. In effect then, perhaps, these air cored coils are showing immense Lenz force, by simply being bypassed - the total opposite of what 'E' is showing ? Another question, and perhaps a silly one. If I connected the 4x shorted coils backwards, would anything change ? --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732	Re: EZ Spin motor - homebuild « Reply #99 on: 2015-01-27, 19:25:56 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	The set up of the MicroEZ, is now as follows. 4 compass point coils untouched, regular connections. SE coil disconnected completely. NE coil reverse connected. NW coil shorted to either side coil SW coil shorted to either side coil. The rotor pulls to one side, but runs at twice the speed as it did when all 4 minor compass point coils were shorted. Still very slow with rotation, but somehow has improved in this arrangement. Is this related to the way that a magnet will drop slowly down a copper tube ? Here's a brief video to hopefully explain. [youtube]XK3d5rPf8ns[/youtube] Update: With all 4 of the minor compass point coils completely disconnected, the motor runs freely and at similar speeds to the original build. « Last Edit: 2015-01-27, 20:24:14 by Slider2732 » --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

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