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The first TPU only had one toroid.

EDIT:

You all should really try a HV pulsed coil around/near a magnet...

Yes, the FTPU had one visible toroid.

Agreed, a HV pulsed coil will strongly interact with a magnet at a good distance.

My interest, however, is in the production of a continuous DC in a loop without rectifiers, even if the DC has a lot of hash on top. You will know you are getting very close when you can create this effect. I have not been successful in this....yet.

I believe that the electrons in the loop are kicked (accelerated progressively) way faster than normal drift velocity in a copper conductor, and that's when the "magick" begins, and why there is a "windup effect" i.e. it takes time for the accelerated electrons to find (or create) acceptable high speed preferred pathways through the conductor.

There are numerous unwanted collisions that result in the infamous "heating problem" which to me is not a problem at all, I'll take all the heat the unit can produce, especially in winter. In the summer, there are heat engines and Peltier modules and ammonia cycle refrigeration to our benefit from such a device with a "problem".  C.C

Normal Faraday induction is not what we are looking for, as every forward pulse has a reverse component that prevents an acceleration in one direction. The electrons wind up sloshing back and forth rather than being pushed in one direction. So my hunch is that the TPU has nothing to do with normal Faraday induction, and this has been the dead end for many researchers. The TPU is not an induction transformerIMHO

In a pump, we solve this problem with a one way valve, in electronics it is a rectifier, but that is on the back end of the problem after the electrons are still sloshing to and fro with no unidirectional acceleration.

We need to move the solution to the way we interact and couple to the electrons on the front end such that both edges of the pulse and both polarities of the pulse produce a rectification of electron motion.

We need to look for this method, and experiment to derive it. Smudge has been a great help in expanding our theoretical understanding of what might work, as you have with the many esoteric papers and research you have posted. Thanks for all of that.

Regards, ION


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ION

Here is a patent which is assigned to LM corp: which I have not played with, but find very interesting as it talks of accelerating electrons from perminent magnets and also hints to greater power (electron beam).

Now there just might be something in what is being done here :-\ especially if the beam could be sent around a toroid or focused into a coil as is talked about.

Patent number 5,929,732  (US)

Regards

Mike 8)

PS. Note that it is a monopole that is created.


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Yes, the FTPU had one visible toroid.

Agreed, a HV pulsed coil will strongly interact with a magnet at a good distance.

My interest, however, is in the production of a continuous DC in a loop without rectifiers, even if the DC has a lot of hash on top. You will know you are getting very close when you can create this effect. I have not been successful in this....yet.

I believe that the electrons in the loop are kicked (accelerated progressively) way faster than normal drift velocity in a copper conductor, and that's when the "magick" begins, and why there is a "windup effect" i.e. it takes time for the accelerated electrons to find (or create) acceptable high speed preferred pathways through the conductor.

There are numerous unwanted collisions that result in the infamous "heating problem" which to me is not a problem at all, I'll take all the heat the unit can produce, especially in winter. In the summer, there are heat engines and Peltier modules and ammonia cycle refrigeration to our benefit from such a device with a "problem".  C.C

Normal Faraday induction is not what we are looking for, as every forward pulse has a reverse component that prevents an acceleration in one direction. The electrons wind up sloshing back and forth rather than being pushed in one direction. So my hunch is that the TPU has nothing to do with normal Faraday induction, and this has been the dead end for many researchers. The TPU is not an induction transformerIMHO

In a pump, we solve this problem with a one way valve, in electronics it is a rectifier, but that is on the back end of the problem after the electrons are still sloshing to and fro with no unidirectional acceleration.

We need to move the solution to the way we interact and couple to the electrons on the front end such that both edges of the pulse and both polarities of the pulse produce a rectification of electron motion.

We need to look for this method, and experiment to derive it. Smudge has been a great help in expanding our theoretical understanding of what might work, as you have with the many esoteric papers and research you have posted. Thanks for all of that.

Regards, ION

Try looking at induction from another perspective. 
What is drift velocity measured against?  The conductor?  The space around the conductor?
Also consider that the wavefront that initially occurs when a circuit is powered is several orders of magnitude faster than drift velocity.

Before you answer, let's look at the hv pulsed coil and magnet.  The pulses from the coil make the magnet move violently with great force. 
Francis Nipher wrote of a similar effect when placing a lead from a Whimhurst generator to a magnet and the magnetic force increased.
Nipher concluded that the permeability of the space around the magnet was increased by the HV (either lead worked the same).

Rotating an electric field, through a magnetic field should produce a field of rotating higher permability, similar to a rotating magnetic field.
   
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@cheappower2012

If you want a pretty good diagram of the LTPU, I have put them on my ftp site located here;

http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Steven%20Mark/wattsup-tpu/

Look at the SM17 files. There is a whole load of stuff on my ftp site on SM to help you out.

@all

OK, OK, maybe someone can look at this idea.

We all know the dilemma after so many years of pulsing our coils. Anytime you get high enough volts, the amps are the shits. We rarely make anything that has any decent amp rating on the output. So here is an idea.

Let's say you have a primary/secondary/core setup that when you pulse 12 volts dc into the primary at a low enough frequency like let's say 100 hz, you produce an output of 480 volts. But the 480 volts has really low amps and that voltage level is not really useful in our devices.

So 480 volts at 100hz. This means you have 100 rising sine waves per second going up to 480 volts each. Now what if you could take that 480 volts at 100Hz and before you send it to a load, you pass the positive output through a PNP mosfet that is pulsed at 4000Hz. WHAT VOLTAGE WILL REACH THE LOAD? Technically it should be 12 volts. Technically that mosfet should never see anything above 12 volts because it is pulsing to the load 40 times for each one pulse of the primary. If someone can work on this idea and get it working on the bench, I think this will be a real avenue for OU furtherance.

This little idea is worth mountains more then all the time that will be spent on the GG device.

We need to master a few side issues that you cannot do in one single build after build. At one stage or another some people need to do side research. This idea is one of them. I do not have the acumen but you guys rock up there every day.

The relation between this small idea and the LTPU may be pertinent. SM was always cautious around the LTPU. If the LTPU was producing high voltage that was "cut back" as per above. This may be a road to OU because during the high voltage production, there may be OU already that we know nothing about because we only consume it as it is produced. If the cut down output was sent to a load like half a center toroid as a primary, then the toroid secondary is the output and again this would match the high amp reading he showed when passing his ammeter over the toroids.

The analogy is simple. Just think of a licorice extruder. The licorice comes out in a continuous stream and a knife just cuts them to size. As to is this new or not, I think it is. I have never seen anyone try such an idea. Produce high volts and cut it down before it becomes high volts. SM could have discovered such an effect with normal sound wavelengths during his works on 3D sound. To make 3D sound you would require to receive a signal and "cut it up" into at least three ranges.

Just putting it out there.

wattsup



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The electron velocity may be the key to this units operation. In AC it's moving both ways along the wire and DC is in one direction only. This is taken from a static reference point on the wire. If the reference point itself was moving at a high velocity then the AC waveform would be superimposed on a DC reference. Add a crap load of odd harmonics...
To get the reference point to move it requires a kick, in fact it requires many kicks and a little synchronicity.
The standard LC resonance doesn't apply here, the length of the cable itself is what's important.
Imagine for an instant that wire dipped into Mercury motor. It's pure simplicity, if we applied current the wire rotates if we stirred the mercury then applied the current, it's velocity from our viewpoint would increase.
There's a rotational medium being generated that affects the standard rest point to which we accept as stationary (field around a permanent magnet is spinning).
Remember that motor startup time experiment being faster after the first run up?
The normally static ground point is moving within the unit. This offsets the AC and may well have graviton side effects as moving the unit physically will cut across the ambient state of the surrounding ground point.
This explains many of the effects in a nutshell. HV biasing may play a role in 'loosening' the ambient ground state.
   
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One thing people forget is the clampmeter used in the video, where SM measures the current of the big tpu,is set to detect
a magnetic field,it reacts to the earths magnetic field,the hold button zeros this out.This clampmeter will detect a stationary magnetic field or a pulsing magnetic field but not an ac magnetic field on this setting.It is possible that the reading on the toroids were readings of magnets embedded in the wood to create the wash board effect.As I have said before you have to very careful about facts SM put out
he should have been a politician(a professional liar). Theres going to be a great amount of different views of the tpu, however unless you can show how a vibration
can possibly occur in a wire then its all speculation.Its necessary to understand why the tpu would vibrate at all
 and provide a possible cause, and demonstrate it as a starting point.My conclusion is current is generated in the bifular coil in the form of very low frequency ,high current
pulses ,by using a diode and a capacitor its possible to transfer these high current low frequency pulses to power things.
Heres  transfer of energy by a bifular coil using low frequency high current pulses,This set up requires a capacitor and a diode to to light a 100 watt compact florescent bulb,the pulse rate was around 20 Hz
The diode allows the capacitor to build a charge during the pulse,when the pulse stops the diode prevents  the capacitor from discharging thru the bifular coil,very simple stuff.
   
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Assuming fixed magnets and then the foam core, could this be a trick of inertial vibration?
A professional liar would add this if it throws replicators. The gyroscopic feel can be created to some effect the same way if quadrants are sequentially pulsed.
Unless the magic actually does this itself, perhaps this effect causes the gain and its mechanical in nature. It'd be missed from a totally electronic viewpoint.


   
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cheapower2012 said:

Quote
Theres going to be a great amount of different views of the tpu, however unless you can show how a vibration
can possibly occur in a wire then its all speculation.Its necessary to understand why the tpu would vibrate at all
 and provide a possible cause, and demonstrate it as a starting point.My conclusion is current is generated in the bifular coil in the form of very low frequency ,high current
pulses

I did experiments with 4 foot long parallel wires stretched tightly , pulsed with an SCR narrow pulse circuit and using an impedance matching toroidal transformer. Considerable vibration was shown. I've lost track of the original thread, but Peterae has a replication thread of my initial stab at it.
Modelling of a transmission line with dynamic properties (movement and vibration) can be challenging, easier to just try it. Maybe Smudge could handle that one, as I lack the analytical skills, being more of a intuitive, visual researcher.

szaxx said:

Quote
Assuming fixed magnets and then the foam core, could this be a trick of inertial vibration?
A professional liar would add this if it throws replicators. The gyroscopic feel can be created to some effect the same way if quadrants are sequentially pulsed.
Unless the magic actually does this itself, perhaps this effect causes the gain and its mechanical in nature. It'd be missed from a totally electronic viewpoint.

I've been promoting this line of thought for a long time i.e. that the TPU is an electro-acoustic device therefore it's operation is not easily grasped.

The mechanical rectification of motion of a pair of pulsed wires is very interesting and should be explored further.

BTW, you don't need magnets or quadrant pulsing, a ring resonator will work to create gyro and inertial effects.



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You have the advantage ION, a ring resonator using low frequencies is in the microwave frequencies afaik. Can you supply more info on the KHz aspect of the resonator. It's something I've not come across yet and it may aid my investigation along the kinetic interactions.
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Isn't it possible with a middle run of iron wire that core, being small in mass, would vibrate between two out of phase copper loops?
I worked in a transformer factory in my youth shelacing xfrmrs. I asked why do they need this? The plates vibrate and this stops them. The vibration will destroy the windings by the micro stress of the plates moving. That is why they are cushioned with paper wraps. Then I was put testing fluorescent ballasts. They hummed. This has stuck with me my whole life. When SM said these things vibrate I knew what he was talking about. Anything anybody else mentioned could not sway my belief in that experience. I felt it first hand. What is interesting there are so few people that have actually experienced that vibration based upon any other dissertation they might give. To me it is all talk. I know what I felt physically. With the ballasts it was weird. There was this quick acceleration like thump as the first part of the hum started.
No moving parts. And I tested unshelaced xfrmrs. They do exhibit a strange gyroscopic type unwillingness to be spun in space. I dont know if it the microvibration of the plates. As they are twisted in space when driven the vibrations change in their angular orientation to the planet's field. Just sayin' It might not sound sceintific but the experience never goes away.
Also when I put neos in the GK4 tests that too emitted vibration. Naturally this is a given. But I wanted to add vibration to see what the gyroscopic effect would be.
Call me ignorant but I have been there years before SM mentioned that.
The experience at the xfrmr factory put me in a very unique place in electronics to work with transformers in a pristine state where all components acted freely.


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Agreed GK, our early experiences with coils, laminations, vibration etc do give us a unique perspective over those that have not had such fortune. That's why hands on tinkering is so valuable. Recently I made a new friend with the owner of a transformer factory, and got an extensive tour of the facility.

My latest transformer side adventure was to wind a reactor core (big inductor) for a home made DC stick welder, the core without wire was about 50 lbs, and yes those laminations will buzz on AC.


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Quote
There was this quick acceleration like thump as the first part of the hum started

Indeed it is interesting.

I use a 10 amp variac at work, the inrush current knocks out the breaker sometimes, even though it has a very small load, but it only does it if it has not been used for a few hours, a few minuets unused and it does not do it, it's almost like it gets conditioned to accept an ac current but reverts to a non conditioned state after a short time.

and like you with the hum i also used regularly a Degaussing coil for demagnetising a tv crt screen, sometimes you switch it on and it hums, other times you switch it on and it tugs or jumps with quiet a force, again AC, there seems to be something very special at switch on time, maybe harmonic content from an arcing switch during first current flow, it appears to be a random event.

Tv's again a large percentage of tv faults stem from someone using an extension lead or multiple plug adapter, they make them cheaply and use sprung brass connections, the Uk plug pushes into this spring clip, but they loose their spring strength and start arcing(black spots can be found on the plug pin), there are some interesting consequences, most often the line output transistor blows short, sometimes the line output transformer suffers punch through, where the internal insulation gets punched through and an external path to earth is found, this is despite the fact that crowbars or similar and filters are in place to stop excessive +B volts which feeds the line stage, you don't want an excessive +B voltage as this translates into a higher EHT 30Kv at the CRT anode and increases harmful X-ray radiation, so designers are very careful to stop this rail voltage from exceeding it's set value by much. this then begs the question why some particular makes/models would punch through the tube neck and breaking the crt glass neck off.

Anyway my number 1 tip, is to always have a scope probe laying near your experiments and terminate the tip with a 100K resistance to the probe earth with as short wires as possible, if you start seeing DC bursts then you are close.
   
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Switch-on inrush current is usually determined by the remnant magnetism in the core from the last turnoff. Let's say you turned off at the peak flux of the negative cycle, then the core remembers this magnetization and  the input current must try reverse it when you switch-on especially if you happen to switch-on near the peak voltage of the positive cycle. In that case the inrush can be very high . If you switch-off near the flux zero crossing, there is little to no net remnant magnetization, so a switch-on will generate less severe inrush current, and no inrush surge if you should switch on at zero voltage crossing.

While there are some errors in my description regarding when flux is at min or max (phase lag), this site has a better description:

http://www.electrical4u.com/magnetizing-inrush-current-in-power-transformer/

and this: http://www.electrical-installation.org/enwiki/Transformer-energizing_inrush_current

So it is a random event based on several factors. Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: 2016-08-23, 00:11:12 by ION »


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Switch-on inrush current is usually determined by the remnant magnetism in the core from the last turnoff. Let's say you turned off at the peak flux of the negative cycle, then the core remembers this magnetization and  the input current must try reverse it when you switch-on especially if you happen to switch-on near the peak voltage of the positive cycle. In that case the inrush can be very high . If you switch-off near the flux zero crossing, there is little to no net remnant magnetization, so a switch-on will generate less severe inrush current, and no inrush surge if you should switch on at zero voltage crossing.

While there are some errors in my description regarding when flux is at min or max (phase lag), this site has a better description:

http://www.electrical4u.com/magnetizing-inrush-current-in-power-transformer/

and this: http://www.electrical-installation.org/enwiki/Transformer-energizing_inrush_current

So it is a random event based on several factors. Hope this helps.

An interesting read ION,as this seems to be saying the same thing i was trying to say at OU,on the MH ideal coil and voltage question--which of course i was laughed at for.

So switching the polarity instantly across an inductor can cause this !inrush! current to have a large peak. This makes sense to me,as it would be like trying to change the direction of water flowing through a pipe instantly.

The collapsing magnetic field would want to keep the current flowing in one direction through the inductor,where the !now! inverted voltage would want to get the current flowing in the opposite direction,and so we get this !inrush! current at the point of !the now! inverted voltage across the inductor.


Brad


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An interesting read ION,as this seems to be saying the same thing i was trying to say at OU,on the MH ideal coil and voltage question--which of course i was laughed at for.

So switching the polarity instantly across an inductor can cause this !inrush! current to have a large peak. This makes sense to me,as it would be like trying to change the direction of water flowing through a pipe instantly.

The collapsing magnetic field would want to keep the current flowing in one direction through the inductor,where the !now! inverted voltage would want to get the current flowing in the opposite direction,and so we get this !inrush! current at the point of !the now! inverted voltage across the inductor.


Brad

Yes and remember that the core can have a memory i.e. a magnetized state based on which direction the flux had when the transformer was switched off. This is remnant magnetism (memory), same as a PMH, can last for a long time, until it is reset. The effect was used as "core" memory for data storage of early computers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-core_memory


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By having small /mass/volume of core we lose the memory volume of the flux in the core at an elevated, expedient level more the normal. With no place to hide the inrush executes an emp of even more phenominal exercise. There by releasing more charge into the 'surrounding' environment. The environment could be a cage, a toroidal field, a tubular wrapping. The choice is the maker's. All the tests and results that we've and others have done are simply different wrappings of collections of this exertation. Nothing else. With this said one can easily see not just to but through the result of any configuration.

More than normal? Think about a timeframe of any length. A motor is the very slow exercise of flux movement. From there we can view other configurations of 'wire' and 'core' to make this flux transition happen. The next quantum leap past a motor coil is the ignition coil. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the end result. Next, the OU group goes to air core. But the air core relies on parallel coupling. 359 degrees at most is lost to mismatched coupling. Add a small ferro core and you get a possible bomb. The core can collect at any angle but too small a core will vibrate itself to death. Tis a fine balance tween collection and emission to control sustainability.


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Thanks ION for the explanation, i had never thought that remanence was responsible.
   
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Tinned flex as in litz or lamp cord is slightly magnetic, perhaps the 'collector' was a choice word.
   

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This is an interesting post from a newbie!



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Re: THEORY on TPU energy scource
« Reply #43 on: Today at 05:48:35 AM »
Well, you lot are so far from the truth its time you got a little help ! Some variable transformers hold a charge it all depends on the iron and the perfected length of wire. A resonance is set up and sustained in the core of the primary transformer and then its just a matter of harmonics . You increase the resistance without increasing the length of the coil in the secondary transformer where back emf serves as a field pump compressing the wave dynamic.

The more you take out the more it will pump up until it overheats and brakes down and stops..... SIMPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards S9
   
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This is an interesting post from a newbie!



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Re: THEORY on TPU energy scource
« Reply #43 on: Today at 05:48:35 AM »
Well, you lot are so far from the truth its time you got a little help ! Some variable transformers hold a charge it all depends on the iron and the perfected length of wire. A resonance is set up and sustained in the core of the primary transformer and then its just a matter of harmonics . You increase the resistance without increasing the length of the coil in the secondary transformer where back emf serves as a field pump compressing the wave dynamic.

The more you take out the more it will pump up until it overheats and brakes down and stops..... SIMPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards S9
[/quote

I wrote this guy a reply:

http://overunity.com/3605/theory-on-tpu-energy-scource/msg490364/topicseen/#new

We'll see what comes back.

Regards, ION



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Dear all.

Not too sure, but I'm pretty certain that the above has been quoted before.. Atomix??

We used Variac's a lot when I worked for the supply industry from 1 Amp up to 30 Amp. Current inrush was seen regularly. I do remember getting the the connections wrong on a 5 Amp unit and upon switch on all my tools leapt at the casing !! Luckily for me the fuse blew before any serious damage occurred.

Cheers Grum.


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Dear all.

Not too sure, but I'm pretty certain that the above has been quoted before.. Atomix??

We used Variac's a lot when I worked for the supply industry from 1 Amp up to 30 Amp. Current inrush was seen regularly. I do remember getting the the connections wrong on a 5 Amp unit and upon switch on all my tools leapt at the casing !! Luckily for me the fuse blew before any serious damage occurred.

Cheers Grum.

Dear Grum

That is an odd story about the Variac, because all of the B field should have been contained in the core and it should not have attracted your tools. Maybe you wired it such that the two ends were connected together and current was fed into the slider contact, which if at about  1/2 setting would have produced a bucking coil
arrangement, throwing the B field outside the core.

Interesting. Do you happen to remember how you wired it?

BTW, a Variac can make a dandy variable inductor by just using the slider contact and one of the end windings. You can tune the inductor to resonate with a series or shunt capacitor. Only real problem is they are limited to low frequencies and the carbon slider resistance drops the possible "Q" a bit.

Regards, ION

« Last Edit: 2016-08-25, 01:35:41 by ION »


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Dear ION.

My apologies for the late reply, busy day, yesterday.

The accident I had was well over 30 years ago but so bizarre, the memory has stayed fresh. The tools were heavy duty, electricians pliers, side cutters, box and flat spanners ( wrenches ). I'm unable to remember how I wired it but the noise was really loud.

I was explaining to Chet yesterday that our gear had to be portable so things like Variac's were put into wooden boxes. The substations we both commissioned and maintained were dotted everywhere over the 1500 square Mile area that was our patch. The Variac was our most used piece of test equipment, from testing Voltage transformers to pushing 1000's of Amps into the primary bars for Current indication and circuit protection.

Ah... those were the days. Looking back, probably the most enjoyable of my working life.

Kind regards, Grum.


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Dear ION.

My apologies for the late reply, busy day, yesterday.

The accident I had was well over 30 years ago but so bizarre, the memory has stayed fresh. The tools were heavy duty, electricians pliers, side cutters, box and flat spanners ( wrenches ). I'm unable to remember how I wired it but the noise was really loud.

I was explaining to Chet yesterday that our gear had to be portable so things like Variac's were put into wooden boxes. The substations we both commissioned and maintained were dotted everywhere over the 1500 square Mile area that was our patch. The Variac was our most used piece of test equipment, from testing Voltage transformers to pushing 1000's of Amps into the primary bars for Current indication and circuit protection.

Ah... those were the days. Looking back, probably the most enjoyable of my working life.

Kind regards, Grum.

Dear Graham

Thanks for replying. Ah! yes, the good old days.

Not to worry, we can always attempt to replicate a mis-wired Variac. I have a few rather large ones here. If you can remember the approximate size or weight that might be a good start.

Cheers, ION



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Dear Graham

Thanks for replying. Ah! yes, the good old days.

Not to worry, we can always attempt to replicate a mis-wired Variac. I have a few rather large ones here. If you can remember the approximate size or weight that might be a good start.

Cheers, ION

Dear ION.

Yes indeed, the good old days... Our department head who started his working life with the North Wales power company called them Halcyon days.  When asked how long he had worked there? His reply was..... My first job was to remove a Pterodactyl from the overhead line !!   :)

The variac in question was probably a 3 Amp version. We just bolted them onto a wooden plinth and fitted 4mm banana sockets for the test leads.

Big Bertha only came out on the odd occasion, it was literally a two man lift!! As were some of the Primary injection transformers we had.

Kind regards, Grum.   

 


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