partzmans board ATL

Author Topic: partzmans board ATL (Read 36202 times)

Topic Options

Centraflow

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #75 on: 2019-11-19, 22:52:35 »

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member

Posts: 3914

Gentlemen,

I have been very involved with patents in the past, they are very very expensive if you go down the line of using a patent agent, 30yrs ago it cost me 23,000 pounds sterling.

If you work within a small group and all in that group are privy to all the work and is available to all that group and can be proven, then there is prior art and it can not be patented by an another though it can be used by anyone who wishes to do so, is that not what we want?

Link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art

There are otherways, file for a patent 300$ you then have 1 year before paying more money which gives you time to find a money man to pay the mountain of bills that will start flooding in, or let the patent app: die which also gives you registered prior art and the only person that could reapply is you. The latter is used by many companies and why you see many applications for the same thing with reference to the "prior" application number, this will give you another year, etc.

Regards

Mike

---------------------------

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

partzman

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #76 on: 2019-11-25, 16:08:16 »

Group: Moderator
Hero Member

Posts: 2232

Quote from: Centraflow on 2019-11-19, 22:52:35

Gentlemen,

I have been very involved with patents in the past, they are very very expensive if you go down the line of using a patent agent, 30yrs ago it cost me 23,000 pounds sterling.

If you work within a small group and all in that group are privy to all the work and is available to all that group and can be proven, then there is prior art and it can not be patented by an another though it can be used by anyone who wishes to do so, is that not what we want?

Link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art

In general this is true however, there are certain qualifications. The main one is that the disclosure must qualify as "public" and the disclosure must be "enabling" that is, one skilled in the art must be able to replicate or otherwise make the info useful. This can become a slippery slope in view of the "doctrine of equivalence" if all aspects of the invention or concept are not fully understood and/or disclosed and someone else attempts to file the invention.

Quote

There are otherways, file for a patent 300$ you then have 1 year before paying more money which gives you time to find a money man to pay the mountain of bills that will start flooding in, or let the patent app: die which also gives you registered prior art and the only person that could reapply is you. The latter is used by many companies and why you see many applications for the same thing with reference to the "prior" application number, this will give you another year, etc.

I'm not sure if you are referring to a "provisional" patent application but these can be filed at a low cost but must be converted to a non-provisional prior to 12 months after filing. If not converted or abandoned prior to this, the provisional will remain unpublished and can not be used as prior art. The problem with a provisional is that it must be as detailed as the final application so one must have the knowledge to do this or a patent attorney is required to help in the filing.

A regular or non-provisional patent application will by default publish within 18 months (some claim this can be shorter) of filing (not considering continuations, etc). However, if the application is abandoned more than 4 weeks prior to the publication date, it will not be published and under these conditions would not qualify as prior art. Also, for any application filed only in the US, one can request "non publication" which then the application would only be published until the patent is granted.

Regards,
Pm

Quote

Regards

Mike

partzman	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #77 on: 2019-11-25, 16:13:41 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2232	All, I have decided to proceed into construction of an actual working device to prove the claims or not so I will not be posting any additional info on this thread until a device is built and can be demonstrated. I have no idea how long this might take. Regards, Pm

Centraflow

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #78 on: 2019-11-25, 18:59:54 »

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member

Posts: 3914

Hi PM

It does seem the US is a little different, also China and Russia in that they could not care a sh*t if you excuse my language. I now publish on Researchgate along with many in the scientific community here in Europe and at 69yrs of age in less than two months I really don't want any more patents, let's just take credit where credit is due and do some good before we snuff it

Best regards

Mike

---------------------------

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Peterae	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #79 on: 2019-11-25, 20:09:48 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4637	Good luck Partzman

partzman

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #80 on: 2019-11-26, 16:07:54 »

Group: Moderator
Hero Member

Posts: 2232

Quote from: Centraflow on 2019-11-25, 18:59:54

Hi PM

It does seem the US is a little different, also China and Russia in that they could not care a sh*t if you excuse my language. I now publish on Researchgate along with many in the scientific community here in Europe and at 69yrs of age in less than two months I really don't want any more patents, let's just take credit where credit is due and do some good before we snuff it

Best regards

Mike

Hi Mike,

I totally agree! I just hope there is enough time left to make an impact! I'm 78 and as I watch the wheels starting to come off those around me, I find it more difficult to focus on the mission.

Regards,
Pm

partzman	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #81 on: 2019-11-26, 16:08:28 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2232	Quote from: Peterae on 2019-11-25, 20:09:48 Good luck Partzman Thanks you Peter! regards, Pm

partzman

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #82 on: 2019-12-04, 23:01:02 »

Group: Moderator
Hero Member

Posts: 2232

Additional preliminary bench info on the RLE device.

These are actual bench tests and measurements for one cycle on a special core arrangement. The pre-existing condition is that a secondary Lb and a 6.55mH inductor Lc are charged to ~393ma prior to the cycle start. For a complete cycle, inductor Lc will see an increase in current while Lb will see a reduction in current and then for energy recovery, inductor Lc would be discharged to ~393ma and secondary Lb would be re-charged to ~393ma and the cycle would then repeat.

The first scope pix is the energy input to the primary and calculates to be 259uJ.

The second pix is the energy recovered back to the power supply from the collapsing primary and is 197uJ.

The third pix is the starting current of in Lc 393ma and the fourth pix is the ending current of 658ma. Lc is 6.55mH so the increase in stored energy in Lc = (.658^2-.393^2)*.00655/2 = 912uJ.

The last pix is the energy required to raise the current level in Lb back to 393ma and is 66uJ.

Therefore the total available energy for recovery = 197uJ + 912uJ = 1109uJ. The total input energy = 259uJ + 66uJ = 325uJ for an apparent COP = 1109/325 = 3.41 .

These tests were run with 50% core utilization and the current levels were reduced due to limitations of the mosfet switches and the layout.

Regards,
Pm

partzmans board ATL

AM200x3 Uin Input.png (24.88 kB, 800x480 - viewed 225 times.)

partzmans board ATL

AM200x3 Uin Recovery.png (25.14 kB, 800x480 - viewed 225 times.)

partzmans board ATL

AM200x3 ILcmin.png (21.38 kB, 800x480 - viewed 208 times.)

partzmans board ATL

AM200x3 ILcmax.png (21.45 kB, 800x480 - viewed 199 times.)

partzmans board ATL

AM200x3 ULb Recharge.png (27.05 kB, 800x480 - viewed 199 times.)

partzman

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #83 on: 2019-12-09, 00:22:50 »

Group: Moderator
Hero Member

Posts: 2232

All,

I'm sorry to report that my findings in my previous post #82 are incorrect. Coil Lc or the constant current sink inductor was missing a .010" spacer between the core halves which resulted in a much higher inductance
which would help the gain if it were not for the fact that the coil saturated far below the >600ma max current. So, the apparent COP is not accurately stated. There is still some gain with this configuration corrected but at levels around 1.1 or so which is probably not enough to overcome the additional switching requirements.

I've attached a pix of the core used for this test which includes an AMCC-200 core along with 1/4" ferrite control cores in the gaps. The ferrite cores are saturated to provide a variable reluctance for the metglas cores which were used with and without additional gaps. This setup was also used to check to see if the current in the metglas windings would remain constant with a constant current sink when the fields in the saturated control coils were released or collapsed. The bad news is, the current dropped in the metglas windings commensurate with the increase in inductance. However, the E cored control windings are for the most part cross flux coupled to the metgas cores but there is a small part of the ferrite cores that are coupled both in aid and well as buck so the jury is still out. The problem is, if this concepts doesn't work in this solid-state example, it will probably not work in a rotary reluctance type of generator IMO.

Regards,
pm

partzmans board ATL

AM200x3.jpg (90.15 kB, 800x450 - viewed 92 times.)

Centraflow

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #84 on: 2019-12-09, 17:04:00 »

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member

Posts: 3914

Some nice work there PM, a pitty atm the results were not as required

keep at it as we need some good results because we are killing the Earth.

Regards

Mike

---------------------------

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

partzman	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #85 on: 2019-12-09, 18:34:44 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2232	Quote from: Centraflow on 2019-12-09, 17:04:00 Some nice work there PM, a pitty atm the results were not as required keep at it as we need some good results because we are killing the Earth. Regards Mike Thanks Mike! Regards, pm

Itsu	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #86 on: 2019-12-09, 20:02:30 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4694	yes PM, a nice piece of work, it surely looks like an overunity device, now the results..... Would not smaller E-cored ferrites provide a stronger effect due to the metglas cores being closer? Itsu

PhysicsProf

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #87 on: 2019-12-09, 22:05:05 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member

Posts: 3230

Quote from: Centraflow on 2019-11-25, 18:59:54

Hi PM

It does seem the US is a little different, also China and Russia in that they could not care a sh*t if you excuse my language. I now publish on Researchgate along with many in the scientific community here in Europe and at 69yrs of age in less than two months I really don't want any more patents, let's just take credit where credit is due and do some good before we snuff it

Best regards

Mike

AND PM:
" I just hope there is enough time left to make an impact! I'm 78 and as I watch the wheels starting to come off those around me, I find it more difficult to focus on the mission.

Regards,
Pm"

I'm also in total agreement.. I'm 71 next March and hoping I can make three more discoveries before I pass over. That's my goal - basically outlined in my books on Amazon. I also publish on ResearchGate - need to do more there I think.

Good work, PM! More POWER to you!
=Steven Jones

PhysicsProf	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #88 on: 2019-12-10, 00:59:24 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3230	Let's suppose for a moment that Partzman has cracked the puzzle - but that if he goes for a patent (application even), that the USPTO will slap a "security classification" and gag-order on his idea. (As happened we know now, to Dr. Mitchell Swartz, many know the story.) What would be better approach to getting the IDEA out to the public, along with a fair return to PM??

PhysicsProf

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #89 on: 2019-12-10, 19:25:51 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member

Posts: 3230

My main question is this - Does writing and publishing a scientific paper in a journal prevent someone from filing a patent on the idea (thus stealing it from you)?

How about having several replications - all published in news media on the "same day" in different countries throughout the world - would that prevent someone from filing a patent on the idea (thus stealing it from you)?

Note - Dr Swartz gave a talk on his problems with the patent office - gag order! got it lifted after much effort and time. I was present when he gave this talk!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oab9COjOvM

swartz - censored by us govt upon patent filing.jpg

partzmans board ATL

swartz - censored by us govt upon patent filing.jpg (160.95 kB, 1237x741 - viewed 88 times.)

partzman

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #90 on: 2019-12-11, 15:49:05 »

Group: Moderator
Hero Member

Posts: 2232

All,

Thanks for your previous comments! This is the first chance I've had to post since returning from the hospital. On Monday morning, I suffered what was initially thought to be a TIA but was actually a mild stroke. Today I'm at home and have a full recovery of the use of my right arm and leg which IMO is miraculous. The blockage is in the inner-cranial carotid arteries which requires special procedures to correct so I'll have tests later this month to see what can be done.

This really put things into perspective for me and I've decided to open this thread to the public if Peter says it is possible to do so. If there is anything to this concept, then let it be pursued!

Regards,
Pm

Chet K	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #91 on: 2019-12-11, 16:42:36 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4725	Glad to read you are on the mend from a scary event [does sound miraculous] Thanks for all you do ,and I agree with your choice and perspective. Most of all your steadfast resolve to do the "next right thing". respectfully Chet « Last Edit: 2019-12-11, 18:16:40 by Chet K »

Itsu	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #92 on: 2019-12-11, 16:44:19 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4694	Partzman, that surely is a miraculous recovery from that mild stroke. Hopefully they can resolve that blockage if still needed as probably you are on blood thinners now. You concentrate on further rcovery for now, the rest will come later. Itsu

Grumage	Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #93 on: 2019-12-11, 18:34:32 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 3099	Just take things easy Jon. We're thinking of you here. I discovered that reducing my stress levels helped greatly after my near death heart do. Take care, Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Centraflow

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #94 on: 2019-12-11, 18:53:16 »

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member

Posts: 3914

Quote from: partzman on 2019-12-11, 15:49:05

All,

Thanks for your previous comments! This is the first chance I've had to post since returning from the hospital. On Monday morning, I suffered what was initially thought to be a TIA but was actually a mild stroke. Today I'm at home and have a full recovery of the use of my right arm and leg which IMO is miraculous. The blockage is in the inner-cranial carotid arteries which requires special procedures to correct so I'll have tests later this month to see what can be done.

This really put things into perspective for me and I've decided to open this thread to the public if Peter says it is possible to do so. If there is anything to this concept, then let it be pursued!

Regards,
Pm

PM, sorry to hear that, I had a similar thing which affected my eyes, I have now been on tromolite (kind of asprin) for some years now. Take it easy and don't get stressed.

Regards

Mike

---------------------------

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

partzman

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #95 on: 2019-12-11, 19:34:53 »

Group: Moderator
Hero Member

Posts: 2232

Thanks to all for your concerns! I see that Peter made the thread public so we'll continue on from here.

I had done some bench tests that used two coils connected in series and connected to a constant current source (inductor). By using a scope sweep on slow triggered roll while removing paramagnetic piece of aluminum, I could see no change in current with an inductance change of 200%. This leads me to believe that a reluctance generator could be built whose gain would be close to the ratio of the inductances.

Attached is a pix of this concept with an explanation.

Regards,
Pm

partzmans board ATL

Reluctance Gen Concept.png (32.18 kB, 916x758 - viewed 95 times.)

Smudge

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #96 on: 2019-12-12, 10:22:27 »

Group: Professor
Hero Member

Posts: 2332

Hi PM,

Sorry to hear about your health problems, and thank you for going open source on this project. You and I go way back to an earlier forum with MPI, I remember your MEG work from back then

.

With regard to your reluctance generator IMO you need to consider how energy is obtained from a constant current source. We are all familiar with (virtually constant) voltage sources as power generators. Of course the power obtained is then proportional to the current draw. If we had (constant) current power sources the power obtained would be proportional to the voltage draw. No-load is a dead short (zero voltage) but any resistance greater than zero puts a voltage there and the current source delivers power. My gut feeling is that the output energy will exactly match both the input shaft energy and the input energy from the current source. It is possible to simulate this in FEMM using its facility to have diamagnetic material with a mu less than unity as the rotor. I have a feeling I may have done this some years ago, at age 85 I am somewhat forgetful. I will have another go at it and see what happens.

Smudge

partzman

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #97 on: 2019-12-12, 14:27:36 »

Group: Moderator
Hero Member

Posts: 2232

Quote from: Smudge on 2019-12-12, 10:22:27

Hi PM,

Sorry to hear about your health problems, and thank you for going open source on this project. You and I go way back to an earlier forum with MPI, I remember your MEG work from back then .

With regard to your reluctance generator IMO you need to consider how energy is obtained from a constant current source. We are all familiar with (virtually constant) voltage sources as power generators. Of course the power obtained is then proportional to the current draw. If we had (constant) current power sources the power obtained would be proportional to the voltage draw. No-load is a dead short (zero voltage) but any resistance greater than zero puts a voltage there and the current source delivers power. My gut feeling is that the output energy will exactly match both the input shaft energy and the input energy from the current source. It is possible to simulate this in FEMM using its facility to have diamagnetic material with a mu less than unity as the rotor. I have a feeling I may have done this some years ago, at age 85 I am somewhat forgetful. I will have another go at it and see what happens.

Smudge

Thanks you for your comments!

Yes, you may very well be right in the energies cancelling each other. I have also considered losses from the fields generated by possible eddy currents in the rotor which would only further aggravate the situation.

If you already did a simulation in FEMM that would have shown a gain, you would have published that info and I don't recall any such paper from you.

Anyway, it might save time for those wishing to try the reluctance gen if you would do a FEMM simulation.

Regards,
Pm

Allcanadian

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #98 on: 2019-12-12, 16:31:53 »

Hero Member

Posts: 3064

Hello partzman

Quote

I had done some bench tests that used two coils connected in series and connected to a constant current source (inductor). By using a scope sweep on slow triggered roll while removing paramagnetic piece of aluminum, I could see no change in current with an inductance change of 200%. This leads me to believe that a reluctance generator could be built whose gain would be close to the ratio of the inductances.

I also built and tested a reluctance generator similar to the one you posted after seeing the concept on a bearden/bedini website. I also used an aluminum segmented disk between the induction coils to disturb the magnetic field. Unfortunately the greater the current in the coils the greater the magnetic field and the greater the eddy current drag on the disk.

I suspect the disk may have be a laminate or substrate in order to produce better results. Logically the disk should disturb the mutual magnetic field between the coils without the disk being effected by drag forces from the magnetic field.

Regards

---------------------------

Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

partzman

Re: partzmans board ATL « Reply #99 on: 2019-12-12, 17:01:38 »

Group: Moderator
Hero Member

Posts: 2232

Quote from: Allcanadian on 2019-12-12, 16:31:53

Hello partzman
I also built and tested a reluctance generator similar to the one you posted after seeing the concept on a bearden/bedini website. I also used an aluminum segmented disk between the induction coils to disturb the magnetic field. Unfortunately the greater the current in the coils the greater the magnetic field and the greater the eddy current drag on the disk.

I suspect the disk may have be a laminate or substrate in order to produce better results. Logically the disk should disturb the mutual magnetic field between the coils without the disk being effected by drag forces from the magnetic field.

Regards

Hi AC,

Yes, I think the eddy currents may be a factor that is not known at this time. I'm curious to know you if you were using constant current source for the coils verses constant voltage?

Regards,
Pm