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Author Topic: TPU Continuum  (Read 2770 times)

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There is also the fact that passing a magnet over a conductor results in an alternating voltage-but why ?.
Should it not result in a DC voltage half wave sine ? .
I know you asked about voltage, but...
If the wire has no resistance and is closed in a loop*, then the current induced in that loop never reverses ( e.g.:  it could have the shape of a half of a sine wave or half of a triangular wave, etc... )  :o

So in your "passing magnet" scenario, the voltage reverses across an open conductor, but in a perfectly closed conductor the current never reverses - Madness !!!


*Assuming there is zero current flowing in that loop, when the magnet is initially absent.



   

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I know you asked about voltage, but...
If the wire has no resistance and is closed in a loop*, then the current induced in that loop never reverses ( e.g.:  it could have the shape of a half of a sine wave or half of a triangular wave, etc... )  :o

So in your "passing magnet" scenario, the voltage reverses across an open conductor, but in a perfectly closed conductor the current never reverses - Madness !!!


*Assuming there is zero current flowing in that loop, when the magnet is initially absent.

Well we dont need super conducting wire or conductor to achieve a continual current flow in a loop,as we can achieve this with standard materials we have today--very easy to do.


Brad


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Nope, it is a T.O.E. after all...and a good one, too.

"Good" for what?

A theory is necessary to:
- explain observations that are not explained by current theories
- synthesize one or more theories into a more general theory that can predict new phenomena

What observations would be explained by this TOE and not by current theories?
What new observations verifiable by experimentation does this TOE predict?


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Yes, the video explains well what happens when the charges move, but I think what he is asking is what happens when the charges do not move with respect to the conductor thus there is no current flow in the conductor ...yet the voltage is still there at  its edges.  A Currentless voltage.

I know the answer is relative motion, but from the video it is not readily apparent motion of what, unless one is willing to accept the notion that motion does not require an object for its definition, as nothing of the sort appears in the basic equation of motion s/t.

Not clear to me, can you be more explicit if my answer is out of line?

The issue is not a current flow relative to a conductor, but the flow of charges relative to other charges, and we must take into account the two kinds of charge when necessary. An electron beam also creates a magnetic field due to current, seen as a transverse electric field by other charges moving with respect to the beam. But unlike a current in a conductor, there will also be the classical electric field due to the fact that the beam is not neutral, there are only negative charges.

If there is no current flow in a conductor and the conductor is neutral, there is no voltage relative to other neutral conductors. I don't see the point.
If a conductor is moving in a magnetic field and there is no circuit, the same electric is viewed from the charges in the conductor as in the case they are in a circuit. The charges will move but they will be quickly balanced and stopped by the coulomb field from the nuclei, and they will stay in a new equilibrium as in a polarized dielectric. So there will be a voltage between the two ends and no current.


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Going back to Brad's earlier remarks
Quote
We know how strong the magnetic field of a neo permanent magnet can be.
We also know that in order for us to create a field of equal strength to that of a neo permanent magnet,we would need a good size coil,and a lot of current. We also know that the flow current creates heat.
But not if you use a superconductor.  MRI magnets don't create heat.
Quote
So one has to wonder as to why,with a field so strong,the humble neo permanent magnet creates no heat what so ever  ???
  You can create a magnetic field if you had a charged sphere and you spin the sphere.  That does not in itself create heat if you ignore friction.  There are a lot of spinning charges inside the neo magnet that create the field.
Quote
We should also note that since the PM needs to have a continual flow of current in order for it to be a PM,that it must be creating it's own energy to do so. This would equate to a self running device
Indeed those spinning charges are a self running device.  It can be shown that those spinning charges can deliver energy (obtained from the active vacuum) but they can also feed energy back (into that active vacuum).  After many years trying to find ways of extracting energy from ferromagnetic spins and not giving it back I have reached the conclusion that it needs additional spins to be supplied and that takes us into the area of spintronics.  Magnetized Fe is one of the materials of choice for supplying spin-polarized electrons, so I have come up with a form of transformer that uses spin-polarized electrons obtained by the presence of permanent magnets, and injects these into the transformer laminations, that injection taking the place of the primary coil.  This seems to offer the possibility of an OU transformer, but that has yet to be determined experimentally.  The attached image shows the scheme.  I have a paper going into the theory that needs some correction, I'll publish that here soon.
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Some might be thinking-what has all this got to do with the TPU ?.
Well,we need to be looking for examples where a continual flow of energy can exist withon a system. Once that is found and understood,we then work out as to how it can be adapted to work and provide a continual source of energy.

So here is another example i consider to be a continual flow of energy--> the PMH (perpetual motion holder).

Some say it is just residual magnetism that is holding the keeper in place,which of course is wrong.

So who here wants to have a stab at explaning the workings of the PMH ?.


Brad


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Some might be thinking-what has all this got to do with the TPU ?.
Well,we need to be looking for examples where a continual flow of energy can exist withon a system. Once that is found and understood,we then work out as to how it can be adapted to work and provide a continual source of energy.

So here is another example i consider to be a continual flow of energy--> the PMH (perpetual motion holder).

Some say it is just residual magnetism that is holding the keeper in place,which of course is wrong.

So who here wants to have a stab at explaning the workings of the PMH ?.


Brad
I believe Russ' has the longest public record of holding a charge? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFycNY_mNBk
   

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I believe Russ' has the longest public record of holding a charge? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFycNY_mNBk

Yes he dose,although he mistakenly calls it the TPU .

I have carried out a lot of testing on the PMH.
Some things i have found--
1-the magnetic field strength holding the keeper on is the same with or without the coil energized.

2-ferrite that holds no residual magnetism works just as good as steel or iron--so that dismisses the theory of it being residual magnetism that keeps the magnetic field going once the current is disconnected from the coil.

What if we used SS,and found that the keeper was still magnetically attached to the U core ?--what would that mean ?.

Brad


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"Good" for what?

A theory is necessary to:
- explain observations that are not explained by current theories
- synthesize one or more theories into a more general theory that can predict new phenomena

What observations would be explained by this TOE and not by current theories?
What new observations verifiable by experimentation does this TOE predict?
In order not to stray off-topic, I have moved your question somewhere else.

We do not want to annoy TinMan with a talk about T.O.E.
Some might be thinking-what has all this got to do with the TPU ?.


   

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Well we dont need super conducting wire or conductor to achieve a continual current flow in a loop,as we can achieve this with standard materials we have today--very easy to do.
Do you mean by connecting a battery to the loop of resistive wire ?
If "yes" then the flow is not continual, but only as long as the battery lasts.
   

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Do you mean by connecting a battery to the loop of resistive wire ?
If "yes" then the flow is not continual, but only as long as the battery lasts.

No,i'm talking about the PMH.


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No,i'm talking about the PMH.
There is a continuous electric current flow in the PMH ?
   

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There is a continuous electric current flow in the PMH ?

No,a continuous magnetic current flow.

As the material used is ferrite,which is non conductive,then the flow must be magnetic and not electric.



Brad


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No,a continuous magnetic current flow.
Ah, please call it "magnetic flux" or just "flux" because every time you use the word "current" alone,  people (including me) will assume "electric current".

As the material used is ferrite,which is non conductive,then the flow must be magnetic and not electric.
Yes, it would figure...

What is this ferrite PMH holding?


P.S.
Some ferrites are electrically conductive...
   

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Yes, it would figure...




P.S.
Some ferrites are electrically conductive...

Quote
Ah, please call it "magnetic flux" or just "flux" because every time you use the word "current" alone,  people (including me) will assume "electric current".

Well as an electric current is needed in order to keep ferrite magnetic(which was not a PM to start with),then i guess an electric current must exist-right?

Quote
What is this ferrite PMH holding?

Not sure what you mean.
You do know what the PMH is-dont you?

I guess the keeper could be any magnetic material you like,which once charged,the PMH will hold.


Brad


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Hi Brad,

First I read about the PMH here:  http://www.keelynet.com/energy/emery.htm   What was strange for me is that Matt Emery placed the Ammeter directly onto the top of the transformer core.  See the photos on his setup near the very bottom of the link by scrolling down. 

When the meter is placed onto the wooden table (photo on the left), the needle is just in the center zero position as it should be (that meter has a center-zero mechanism, the zero Amper is in the middle of the scale).

He happened to place the meter onto the top of the transformer core and when he switched off the charger, the needle still showed 6 Amper current.

For me this means he was not aware of the sensitive nature of the magnetic balance such moving coil meters have in order to operate properly. To have a linear DC scale, a homogeneous magnetic field should be maintained in the gap where the moving coil turns and deflects the needle. When this magnetic field is influenced or disturbed from the outside as it surely happened in Matt's case from the very closeness of the iron core of the transformer, the needle did deflect without any current.  I found this behaviour with my such analog meters too.

So to say the least: there was no 6 A current flowing through the meter (hence no current in the circuit) when he disconnected the cables as he wrote. Should he has lifted up the meter from the top of the transformer core, the needle would have returned to zero.

Please watch these two videos, maybe you have seen them: Transformer core tests,  Part 1 and 2 and confront it with the PMH.  Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc     Part 2:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY   

What I think of the PMH: until further proof is shown on the contrary, it "works" due to remanent magnetism in the core. 

I think that so called magnetically good soft irons like ferrite or hipersil cores, when they are in a magnetically closed circuit, will have their domains maintain in the direction the huge input current pulse sets them.  Notice I write 'huge current pulses', meaning several Ampers like 6-10 A or higher because if a PMH has 1-2 Ohm coil winding and excited from a 12 V battery, about that high currents will be involved, this can be a heavy "shock" for the domains.
And when the keeper is removed the domains can return to their earlier position i.e. the core becomes unmagnetized (and the coil on the PMH senses the rearrangement of the domains, in the form of kinda flyback pulse). With ferrite or hipersil cores a PMH may not be able to keep magnetism as long as say a PMH made of normal transformer lamination or steel or cast iron can.

Gyula
   

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You do know what the PMH is-don't you?
"Permanent Magnetic Holder", which means that it is holding something, so  I am asking "what" is it holding?

I guess the keeper could be any magnetic material you like,which once charged,the PMH will hold.
Does it sill work if the "keeper" is a piece of another low-remanence ferrite?

Well as an electric current is needed in order to keep ferrite magnetic(which was not a PM to start with),then i guess an electric current must exist-right?
Not if the magnetic remanence of the PMH or the object that it is holding, is not eliminated as the cause of the attraction.

P.S.
Ferrites still exhibit remanence, albeit a low one.  The remanent field has a harder time sustaining itself, if it is not a part of a closed magnetic circuit. 
Breaking the magnetic circuit, such as removing the "keeper", in many cases is sufficient to demagnetize the remanent field, creating the illusion that this magnetic circuit did not exhibit any remanent field even when it was closed.
   
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So here is another example i consider to be a continual flow of energy--> the PMH (perpetual motion holder).

Some say it is just residual magnetism that is holding the keeper in place,which of course is wrong.

So who here wants to have a stab at explaning the workings of the PMH ?.
Brad
All magnetic materials, even ferrites, have hysteresis.  That is, when all the atomic dipoles are aligned due to H field from the current in the coil, when you turn the current off so that H becomes zero the dipoles remain aligned.  You have to supply some negative current to get the magnetic B field to drop and then reverse to the opposite polarity.  You will find many examples of the BH hysteresis loop so not worth putting one here.  What many people don't realize is that characteristic only applies to complete magnetic circuits such as ring cores, so all material measurements are done on such rings.  If the ring is broken (has an air gap) then there is a mmf drop across that gap, just like an voltage drop across a resistor.  That mmf drop yields a negative value compared to the positive Ni value of the driving coil.  So if a material with a very narrow BH loop (such as ferrite) suddenly gets an air gap (because the keeper has been pulled off) the negative H from that mmf drop takes the material into the second quadrant beyond that narrow loop so the magnetization drops off.   For materials with a wide BH loop (such as PMs) the mmf drop across the air is not enough to take the material to the point where magnetization drops, so they retain their magnetization (which is why they are called permanent magnets). 

The perpetual currents that supply the magnetization are the electron orbits and/or spins that are responsible for the magnetization.  Below are two pages taken from Nussbaum's "Electromagnetic Theory for Engineers and Scientists" showing the equivalent solenoid for a PM.  Also shown are internal current circulations, and for uniform magnetization the currents for adjacent loops cancel leaving only an effective surface current that can be modeled as a close-wound solenoid current.  Of course those currents are perpetual.
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Does it sill work if the "keeper" is a piece of another low-remanence ferrite


Yup.... ;)

https://youtu.be/dWXMxAOFW-w


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So if a material with a very narrow BH loop (such as ferrite) suddenly gets an air gap (because the keeper has been pulled off) the negative H from that mmf drop takes the material into the second quadrant beyond that narrow loop so the magnetization drops off.   For materials with a wide BH loop (such as PMs) the mmf drop across the air is not enough to take the material to the point where magnetization drops, so they retain their magnetization (which is why they are called permanent magnets). 
Thank you Smudge.
   

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Yup.... ;)

https://youtu.be/dWXMxAOFW-w

Hi Graham

The reason it kept dropping is not because the cores weren't ligned up properly,it was because you were using an AC current,where you were switching off the power supply when the current was at the zero point or close to. If you use DC, then it will still work even if the two core halves have only half there surfaces touching.

The fact that the bottom half of the core did drop sometimes is proof that it is not residual magnetism that holds them together,such as it might do using  steel cores,where residual magnetism is the steel retaining some magnetism after the loop is broken.


Brad


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Well Brad, here's the thing....

We could never get the two halves to hold using pure DC no matter the current involved!

I'm 100% with you on your explanation but we must have played with it for much longer than on video. Fact is, DC didn't hold whatsoever and AC only held if the two halves were perfectly aligned.

Cheers Graham.


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Well Brad, here's the thing....

We could never get the two halves to hold using pure DC no matter the current involved!

I'm 100% with you on your explanation but we must have played with it for much longer than on video. Fact is, DC didn't hold whatsoever and AC only held if the two halves were perfectly aligned.

Cheers Graham.

Ok,well that is odd,as the PMH in your video would have either been held together while the current was flowing one way or the other. So regardless of which way the current was flowing,it became stuck together with a current flowing in one direction only--DC.

Put 1 single diode on your coil,so as only a pulsed DC current flows,and see if the two halves will hold together.
There is no reason they will not if they held together using an AC current.

Im putting my boots back on,and heading out to the workshop,as im sure that i used ferrite cores all those years ago when carrying out tests on this for weeks on end.


Brad


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Well Brad, here's the thing....

We could never get the two halves to hold using pure DC no matter the current involved!

I'm 100% with you on your explanation but we must have played with it for much longer than on video. Fact is, DC didn't hold whatsoever and AC only held if the two halves were perfectly aligned.

Cheers Graham.

OK,a WTF moment here.

Seems you are correct Grum,and i was wrong,as i too cannot get the ferrite halves to stick together using a DC current,or a halve wave rectified DC current,but can using an AC current. ???

So,using a 50Hz AC current,it takes a few go's to get the ferrite halves to stick.
Raising the frequency to 100 Hz,it only takes a go or to at the switch to get them to stick.
At 200Hz,they stick together every time i turn the switch off.
So it seems the higher in frequency we go,the easier it is to get the two ferrite halves to stick.

Any of the EE guys want to explain this one ?

Good find Grum  O0


Brad.


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