Raymondslab new "no drag" device

PhysicsProf · 2020.04.20, 08:48:38

Good work, Luc and Mags! Thank you

I have invited Raymond to join in our discussion and quest here. We'll see if he responds...

Centraflow · 2020.04.20, 09:33:38

Quote from: Magluvin on 2020.04.19, 22:56:43
When I did some stuff with pulse motors that spun up to the resonant freq of the coil(and cap. large coil.) the rotor wanted to stick at that rpm. If you drive the rotor past that point, then it will accelerate onward.Had to deal with reed switches reaching their resonance also. So changing the cap would allow me to see that the LC held the rotor to a locked freq of rotation. As long as the LC freq is steady, so will the rpms be steady. Well pretty much depending on load characteristics.

I was thinking earlier that the lobing motor cam axial and the physical connection to the coil were hopefully of decent tolerance and strong enough for all of that physical happening going on, but there may be discrepancies we cant see from afar. His leds, if connected parallel but opposing polarity, say red led, 20ma, 2v at full power, then maybe a 100ohm coil and maybe 40mw P-P? . If in same polarity, 80mw . If in series then maybe a 200ohm coil, 80mw. Just possible guess. He wasnt smoking leds.
So we have to think, is 80mw enough to affect that moving system enough to cause what is happening? More info to clarify if there is any magnetic hardware near the coil on the arm.
Would need to try different motor rpms and test to eliminate any resonant effects that may be causing the result. Mike may be right. cant say unless its made the way the guy set it up, or we will need to try with and without mechanical resonance.

Has anyone asked him to come to the forum?

Mags

Thank you, Mags.

I think you will find I am right. and if nobody builds exactly as he has built it or at least with the movement variables that he has, you will never see what he has.

If your connecting rod is not flexible you have it wrong. It has to flex.

If the connection of the end of the rod at the coil is not loose, you have it wrong. It has to be able to move like your rist movement.

The connecting rod is like a delay line.

The closer the magnet is to the coil the bigger the Lenz effect and the stronger the standing wave which in this case decouples any resistance between the motor and the coil/magnet, the motor now runs in a no-load state as far as the BEMF from the coil.

Now where have I see that before

Regards

Mike

PhysicsProf · 2020.04.20, 16:49:18

Hello, Mike - good to hear from you!
You may be right again...

ronee · 2020.04.21, 15:16:34

Quote from: Centraflow on 2020.04.20, 09:33:38
Thank you, Mags.

I think you will find I am right. and if nobody builds exactly as he has built it or at least with the movement variables that he has, you will never see what he has.

If your connecting rod is not flexible you have it wrong. It has to flex.

If the connection of the end of the rod at the coil is not loose, you have it wrong. It has to be able to move like your rist movement.

The connecting rod is like a delay line.

The closer the magnet is to the coil the bigger the Lenz effect and the stronger the standing wave which in this case decouples any resistance between the motor and the coil/magnet, the motor now runs in a no-load state as far as the BEMF from the coil.

Now where have I see that before

Regards

Mike

A very positive and reasuring assement. Please let me know when you have this up to 500 watt output. I have a 500 watt windmill alternator that I would love to use. Living in the city I can't put that big a windmill on top of my house so this would be perfect.

Ron

Centraflow · 2020.04.21, 17:44:20

Quote from: ronee on 2020.04.21, 15:16:34
A very positive and reasuring assement. Please let me know when you have this up to 500 watt output. I have a 500 watt windmill alternator that I would love to use. Living in the city I can't put that big a windmill on top of my house so this would be perfect.

Ron

I gave my assessment right at the beginning and then left for others to look at it, then Luc "put it to bed", then Mag's made a comment that I may be right and I followed up on that.

I have at no time said I am 100% right only what I "think" is right, you can take it or leave it I really could not care less, and that is the last comment I will make on this thread and I let you get on or not as the case may be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAXx0018QCc&feature=youtu.be

Regards

Mike

ronee · 2020.04.21, 20:39:48

Quote from: Centraflow on 2020.04.21, 17:44:20
I gave my assessment right at the beginning and then left for others to look at it, then Luc "put it to bed", then Mag's made a comment that I may be right and I followed up on that.

I have at no time said I am 100% right only what I "think" is right, you can take it or leave it I really could not care less, and that is the last comment I will make on this thread and I let you get on or not as the case may be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAXx0018QCc&feature=youtu.be

Regards

Mike

Well pardon me... that was written tongue in cheek... mostly cheek.

Can't we have fun on here to?

Ron

gotoluc · 2020.04.21, 20:56:29

Quote from: Centraflow on 2020.04.21, 17:44:20
I gave my assessment right at the beginning and then left for others to look at it, then Luc "put it to bed"

Just to be clear, at no time or place in this topic did I put your assessment "to bed" as you wrote.
After doing further tests (deductive possibilities) it may have reinforced your original assessment could have more possibilities of being correct.
What Magluvin wrote was saying the obvious after all my tests failed to prove anything else, which BTW I thought of but didn't write for the very reason you just wrote, you cannot be 100% sure your assessment is correct.

That's all I can do with the available information at this time. There's no way of testing your assessment. Only the original device could be tested for this possibility.

I think your reaction to Ron's post is a little too much.

Kind regards
Luc

Magluvin · 2020.04.22, 00:07:07

Quote from: gotoluc on 2020.04.21, 20:56:29
Just to be clear, at no time or place in this topic did I put your assessment "to bed" as you wrote.

Kind regards
Luc

I think he meant you put it to bed by showing it doesnt work the way ray says, and didnt mean it was about his assessment.

Mags

Magluvin · 2020.04.22, 01:02:58

Hey Luc.

Just saw your second vid. I believe your magnet config with the single pole field fully cutting the windings are not the same as Rays. I wish I had time to play with this but I have been out of work and finally got a few decent jobs at the moment. In the first vid, it seems as though there is a similar thing happening when your coil moves over the N magnets and then the S magnets.

Below I have depicted what you are showing and what I believe the way it should be, in order. Is the rod the coil is mounted to magnetic?

Ill try to make some time this evening with my pendulum with a mod to try and duplicate what Im trying to convey here.

Not trying to insult what you did. Crazy nice setup there. Just think some things are not the same as Rays. Not enough to put it to bed yet I dont believe. Imagine the field from rays magnet and its position to the coil. The fields out of the magnet in the area of the coil, are more inline with the coils motion(not perfect but mostly) rather than directly 90 deg cutting the windings as in conventional current generation.

Ill see what I can do...

Mags

gotoluc · 2020.04.22, 02:40:48

Hey Mags,

Your first image is what I did in my first video and then again with a stronger 3 inch Neo in my second video.
Your second image is what I did in the third video and then again the same magnet poles but wider and surrounded (closed around coil) in the fourth video.

So, don't know what else you're talking about other then instead of only using the thin N-S sides of a magnet I'm using the N-S faces of magnets.
As far as I'm concerned it's the same but the way I did it the field strength (projection) is greater and the reason why I did it this way.

Regards
Luc

Magluvin · 2020.04.22, 05:27:46

Quote from: gotoluc on 2020.04.22, 02:40:48
Hey Mags,

Your first image is what I did in my first video and then again with a stronger 3 inch Neo in my second video.
Your second image is what I did in the third video and then again the same magnet poles but wider and surrounded (closed around coil) in the fourth video.

So, don't know what else you're talking about other then instead of only using the thin N-S sides of a magnet I'm using the N-S faces of magnets.
As far as I'm concerned it's the same but the way I did it the field strength (projection) is greater and the reason why I did it this way.

Regards
Luc

Ah. I missed 2 vids

Ok, the 3rd vid is closer. Im trying something here and prob wont have a vid till tomorrow as its late. Will see what happens.

Mags

Magluvin · 2020.04.22, 05:43:11

Here is a pic so far. The bottom coils will be the driver with adjustable AC sine, and the top is where I have a few coils to try. On the top ledge behind the top coil im making a platform for testing different magnets.

Mags

Magluvin · 2020.04.22, 07:51:00

Ok, time to go. Late. I got the thing hooked up. Function Generator Android app to my amp on my bench to the to lower coils. 4ohm coils series and 2 3/4x1/8 neo disks on the pendulum center of the 2 coils. 9.1hz with all that jazz on top. But it moves well at resonance and no coil heating.

Want to have resonance here. I can detune the input higher or lower and it doesnt take much to stop swingin and see how the loaded coil may change the resonant freq enough to put things in resonance again. And other reasons on my mind.

Night

Mags

gotoluc · 2020.04.22, 14:34:17

Hi Mags,

I remember that setup when you were doing some mechanical resonance tests with TinMan.
That may be a good idea to have the arm vibrating at resonance.
I wonder what would happen if both the arm and coil were at the same resonance, where mechanical meets electrical in natural harmony?

Makes one think

Regards
Luc

PhysicsProf · 2020.04.22, 17:17:54

Nice looking set-up, Mags!

Magluvin · 2020.04.23, 08:16:43

Ok, will have to do a vid tomorrow. So far all tests show that loading does not help.

Saw a vid from a Russian guy that Im going to make a thread for. His motor really speed up when output shorted.

Mags

gotoluc · 2020.04.23, 14:12:03

Quote from: Magluvin on 2020.04.23, 08:16:43
Saw a vid from a Russian guy that Im going to make a thread for. His motor really speed up when output shorted.

Mags

Hi Mags

Quite sure I've recently seen the Russian video you're talking about but I want to remind you that shorting a coil doesn't prove anything because if the core is made of some cheap metal it will produce much eddy currents losses and as a result when you short a coil with such a core those losses are released and you think you have a free lunch but you don't because those losses are there right from the start added to the prime mover even with coil unloaded.
So if a generator is not efficient from the start you're proving nothing. Plus, try to quantify how much power a shorted coil represents... it = nothing.

Many have been and are still fooled by this effect.
Over 4 years ago I took the time to make videos (two parts) to demonstrate and help educate the research community about this problem.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr3x0xTqM_k

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYGM4UlnqTM

Kind regards
Luc

Magluvin · 2020.04.30, 03:10:06

Ray has new vid, but no comments allowed

Now changed his conclusion on the cause of speedup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P38hLgXmA4k

Mags

gotoluc · 2020.04.30, 15:28:24

Thanks for the update Mags.

Well that's a turn in events. I'm at a loss as to what causes this

Usually when you place a solid Iron (non laminated) core in a moving magnet field the eddy currents causes a drag and don't assist as Ray is demonstrating.
However, as I've been pointing out the magnet never leaves the core.

Would be interested to get Smudge's view on what could be happening.
Unfortunately Ray did not adjust the input voltage to confirm if this happens at all frequencies.

Regards
Luc

Magluvin · 2020.05.01, 02:45:24

Quote from: gotoluc on 2020.04.30, 15:28:24
Thanks for the update Mags.

Well that's a turn in events. I'm at a loss as to what causes this
Usually when you place a solid Iron (non laminated) core in a moving magnet field the eddy currents causes a drag and don't assist as Ray is demonstrating.
However, as I've been pointing out the magnet never leaves the core.

Would be interested to get Smudge's view on what could be happening.
Unfortunately Ray did not adjust the input voltage to confirm if this happens at all frequencies.

Regards
Luc

Well as I mentioned before, I questioned if there was nay metal metalic parts in the area of the coil, and apparently there is. He doesnt allow comments on this one. But I suppose I can try some things with the pendulum. The coils did not work any which way I put them with the magnets in many different ways. I am limited to data on my hotspot so I didnt put a vid on YT that would show that it didnt work.

Mags

Smudge · 2020.05.01, 09:04:06

Quote from: gotoluc on 2020.04.30, 15:28:24
Would be interested to get Smudge's view on what could be happening.

I think the long connecting rod could have something to do with this. As Centraflow said earlier this can act like a delay line, not an electrical delay line but a mechanical one. For any force waveform applied at one end the (acoustic?) velocity for the stress waveform means that force does not immediately appear at the other end, it will be time delayed. And that time delay could be different between compression force and tension force, since under compression the rod can bend. Note that in both cases the rod is storing energy like a spring, in the bending case that energy could be quite significant. Note also that this cyclic stress will also lose energy in the form of heat. It is quite possible that his reduction in input power accompanied by a speeding up is merely the effect of reduced losses. But it may not be so, a mechanical delay might be the holy grail we are looking for to obtain OU.

I am reminded of the displays you sometimes see in shop windows where a small electric motor that is out of sight above the window drives a small crank to which is attached a very long thin coil spring hanging down. An object is attached to the lower end of the spring and that object moves up and down over a large displacement distance that is far greater than the crank throw. If you analyze the up and down time waveform of the object you find that it is not in phase with the up and down motion of the crank.
Smudge

Magluvin · 2020.05.01, 09:46:10

Well since Ray is not taking comments any longer, we cannot get any questions in for him to possibly answer. One question I would ask is for him to change the speed of the motor to see if there is any resonance happening at any point in the speed change, and or if it can happen without the magnet at all.

Like if what he shows affects the system the way he believes, then changing the speed should not really alter things much as the speed change should be able eliminate the probability of resonance as the culprit.

Mags

gotoluc · 2020.05.01, 12:08:13

Thank you Smudge for sharing your opinion which supports Mike's original suggestion of what could be taking place.

Like I've written before and now Mags, it's very sad Ray didn't vary the oscillation frequency to confirm if this is a delay line effect or not.
I'll see what I can do to ask Ray to check this.

Kind regards
Luc

gotoluc · 2020.05.01, 12:57:17

So I've posted a comments to Ray's first video (attached below) in hopes to get more answers.

I've also noticed that Ray's first demo https://youtu.be/MIbBaTf9m_M the voltage is set at 4 volts and in his second video https://youtu.be/P38hLgXmA4k his voltage is set at 3.3 volts, so we do have a small variation in frequency and the same effect still manifests.
If he does get my youtube message and further tests frequency variations we may get a 100% confirmation of what is taking place.

Regards
Luc

PhysicsProf · 2020.05.03, 03:30:57

Raymond has posted another video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMhuGEO2cUc&feature=em-uploademail

Interesting... hopefully more to come.