Oxygen generation using electrolysis or water fracturing.

[Paul-R]

With the mess India is in now thanks to the Coronavirus, mismanagement, a lack of ICU facilities and oxygen, I am wondering what can be suggested for a simple piece of kit to generate of the order of 10 litres per minute of oxygen.

I checked out Patrick's Chapter 10, but being geared to cars, it is mainly projects generating hydroxy gas, which is not readly separatable.

What suggestions?

[muDped]

That amount of Oxygen production via electrolysis would require a rather large group of cells.

Oxygen Concentraters  are available which will produce about 6 Liters per Minute of 30% Oxygen or 1 Liter per Minute of 90% Oxygen.

Banggood search result

An Ebay search would yield results as well.

Typical power consumption is about 100 Watts.

[Paul-R]

That amount of Oxygen production via electrolysis would require a rather large group of cells.

Oxygen Concentraters  are available which will produce about 6 Liters per Minute of 30% Oxygen or 1 Liter per Minute of 90% Oxygen.

Banggood search result

An Ebay search would yield results as well.

Typical power consumption is about 100 Watts.

Good ideas but this is a country full of abject poverty. I was aiming at a DIY home made device which is really inexpensive.

[muDped]

Some years ago Cody Reeder make a couple videos showing how he made his Electrolysis Cell to separately collect Hydrogen and Oxygen.

In this video he shows how he made his cell.

In this video he shows how he made his gas collection balloons with switched compressors to store the gases in tanks.

I think you'll get the gist of how he's done it and perhaps even come up with some improvements.

[Allcanadian]

All electrolyzers with separate electrodes produce O2 at the positive anode and H2 at the negative cathode.

If we want more gas we simply increase the plate surface area. The standard cell potential is around 1.23 volts.

One neat concept is the "battolyser" which uses the the hydrogen gas produced when charging nickel-iron batteries. So we could charge our batteries with solar for electricity and also get hydrogen for heating/cooking... win-win.

On a side note, this also proves simply charging a battery does not account for all the energy present. The gas production and heat is also energy.

Regards
AC

[Paul-R]

The only certain point is the requirement. The WHO suggest that 10 - 20 lpm is a good place to start.

We know the cell voltage. How does one work backwards to determine the size and material of the electrodes, the concentration and material of the electrolyte?

[muDped]

Much work has been done to identify the ideal metals or oxides to use for the Anodes and Cathodes of the cells.

It has long been established that for maximum efficiency the Plates must be as close together as is practicable and that the electrolyzing current should be quite small.

If the Electrolysis Cells are driven hard the IIR losses become very great and heating of the electrolyte is a problem.

Producing Oxygen by electrolysis is inefficient and costly unless very inexpensive sources of electricity are available such as Solar, Wind or Water Power.

Food for thought:

Efficiency of water electrolysis doubled

Oxygen plant

Top 5 Plants for Increasing Oxygen

[sollaris1989]

Hello Paul.
I can not talk about the CoVI or the problems in India , as I have seen the Administrator ,blocked these thing here on the forum , as it is a free energy forum.

I can tell you about the Hydrogen or HHO problem you have...because I have been in the HHO study / experiments for around 10 years.
You said you need 10 L / m , but for what purpose ? AirIntake manifold of your car or you want to build a HHO torch etc.
Can you please provide more information on your plans ?

Thank you.

[Paul-R]

You said you need 10 L / m , but for what purpose ? AirIntake manifold of your car or you want to build a HHO torch etc.
Can you please provide more information on your plans ?

I think the administrators were worried about potentially dangerous medical advice being dished out by unqualified people. This thread is about using tried and tested ideas but getting them availabe on a cheap DIY basis to everyone when the offically supplied cyinders are being stolen by thieves with 1" spanners, and people are dying at the rate of one every 43 seconds.

It is for people suffocating to death with covid. The WHO say that 10 lpm is likely to be OK for people who are not too seriously ill but really, 20 lpm is what one should aim for.

My idea is to produce a design which can be hammered together by anyone out there with a basic knowledge. Power is an issue but a secondary one. We might assume that they will be able to get hold of basic stainless steel, lead (as featured in mudped's video), and the fundamental acids and alkalis.

Gear which produces HHO is a hassle because I don't see a way of separating H2 and O2. It might be possible to use it "as is" but the chances of hospitals or care centres blowing up or catching fire is high. I'm sure they'd refuse HHO as a breathable gas. It might work fine - I doubt the H2 does much harm but this should be checked out. What is needed is a source of O2.

And as a by product, we may end up with an automoble turbo charger which will probably lunch the exhaust valves.

[muDped]

Sadly, the machinery which is capable of producing Oxygen at those volumes is quite expensive.

Even the Oxygen Concentrators used by one or two people at a time cost in the range of $400.00 each.

The advantage of the Oxygen Concentrators is that they obtain their Oxygen from the air and with special membranes to isolate it from the air.

They are inexpensive to operate once they are acquired, however.

Would it be possible to set up something like a gofundme page where people could donate towards the purchase of Oxygen Concentrators from China?

Putting together an Electrolyzer to produce such high volume of Oxygen is definitely "doable" but would require costly electricity unless the Hydrogen could be sold to offset operating costs.

[Paul-R]

Putting together an Electrolyzer to produce such high volume of Oxygen is definitely "doable" but would require costly electricity unless the Hydrogen could be sold to offset operating costs.

Their government is in a crisis. If such an electrolyser could be designed, they have the power to waive LX costs.

[Paul-R]

Putting together an Electrolyzer to produce such high volume of Oxygen is definitely "doable" but would require costly electricity unless the Hydrogen could be sold to offset operating costs.

Their government is in a crisis. If such an electrolyser could be designed, they have the power to waive LX costs.

[sollaris1989]

I think the administrators were worried about potentially dangerous medical advice being dished out by unqualified people.

It is for people suffocating to death with covid. The WHO say that 10 lpm is likely to be OK for people

Thank you for the reply.
When you try the Electrolysis experiment ,the output is WATER VAPOR. It is not H it is not O. (until proven otherwise )
WATER is a MEDIUM  , like AIR , EARTH , FIRE .

You CAN NOT inhale OXYGEN , because the body regulates the PH of the body different at certain periods of the day and different from human to human. ACID and ALKALINE ( Dr. SEBI )
If one person tries to inhale something , and the body can not regulate that something...it will SHUT DOWN aka DIE.

It is not about 10 l / m or 20 l / m ......What it does matter is the quality of the gas and how small the molecular structure of the vapor is.

You can do HIGH AMP Electrolysis  / High VOLTAGE or RADIANT ENERGY electrolysis.
Every method produces a different type of WATER VAPOR !!!

WHO is not your friend or anybody;s friend.
The Government is also not your friend.

In this situation you can not them in consideration.

I wish you well.

[Paul-R]

Thank you for the reply.
When you try the Electrolysis experiment ,the output is WATER VAPOR. It is not H it is not O. (until proven otherwise )
WATER is a MEDIUM  , like AIR , EARTH , FIRE .

You CAN NOT inhale OXYGEN , because the body regulates the PH of the body different at certain periods of the day and different from human to human. ACID and ALKALINE ( Dr. SEBI )
If one person tries to inhale something , and the body can not regulate that something...it will SHUT DOWN aka DIE.

It is not about 10 l / m or 20 l / m ......What it does matter is the quality of the gas and how small the molecular structure of the vapor is.

You can do HIGH AMP Electrolysis  / High VOLTAGE or RADIANT ENERGY electrolysis.
Every method produces a different type of WATER VAPOR !!!

WHO is not your friend or anybody;s friend.
The Government is also not your friend.

In this situation you can not them in consideration.

I wish you well.

If the voltage is right, I disagree. You get O2 and H2 off the electrodes. Pumping up the voltage simply heats the cell up and you would get vapour.

I don't know how you can imagine the body can't breathe O2. Ask your air force. Ask your hospital. Ask the ISS.

[Room3327]

Apparently no one has even checked OUR for info on this,  I posted a very good method of separating the gasses in a build I did years ago using a specially designed dry cell it can be scaled up or down depending on how much gas you need to produce.

It is in the thread 'Fuel Cell tech' under 'Gas seperator electrolysis dry cell'  It is cheap simple and easy to build and can produce as much gas as desired. Seperated into hydrogen and oxygen each with its own outlet.

Regards
Room

https://overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3380.0

[Paul-R]

Apparently no one has even checked OUR for info on this,  I posted a very good method of separating the gasses in a build I did years ago using a specially designed dry cell it can be scaled up or down depending on how much gas you need to produce.

Yours is a very impressive build but for this application, it is complicated. I was hoping to produce a solution involving a power supply, SS, a container, tubing, a plastic face mask, an acid or alkali, maybe salt, and not much more than that. Something that can be constructed out of a scrap merchant's SS cut up from an old commercial kitchen or medical apparatus.

A scrapyard build.

[muDped]

A scrapyard build.

Actually, that is perhaps the best possible idea!

In fact, I've often wondered myself how I might accomplish such a feat and have developed a plan.

Put together a great number of individual cells made to output the gases separately.

Cells made from readily available wide mouth jars of suitable size.  Jars of course recycled from some product purchase, cleaned and converted to an electrolyzer cell.

Cells that can be series connected as a battery of cells to some voltage that is non-hazardous such as about 25-35 Volts,

Groups of such cells and individual power sources with all of the Oxygen outputs tied together for input to a gas scrubber to purify the Oxygen.

All of the Hydrogen outputs tied together for collection of the Hydrogen for a suitable use or sale.

With a sufficient number of small cells properly connected for safe operation it should be possible to generate the amount of Oxygen needed.

For the electrolyte to be as non-hazardous as possible I'd use a solution of ether Potassium or Sodium Sulfate.

What are your thoughts Paul?

[Paul-R]

It is a long time since I've done this stuff.

The sulphates might emit SO2 if someone turns the voltage up either by mistake or because they think this will give more O2. NAOH is nasty but I can't see a bad gas coming off except "infected" vapour.

As I see it, one needs to start with 20 lpm. This implies so many moles of O2 which implies a need for so many coulombs or joules. This number is the multiplication of I x V x time. We know V. The balancing of I and T will be to do with the resistance of the cell. I don't see how we deduce the size of the electrodes, the separation, or the strengh of the electrolyte. It must be school syllabus stuff; any physics teacher should be able to fix this in less time than it takes to type it up.

[muDped]

As an Electrolyte for the electrolysis of water the Sulfates are very stable.

As electrolysis proceeds to produce Hydrogen and Oxygen, the intermediate byproducts are Sodium (or Potassium) Hydroxide and Sulfuric Acid.

These combine to reform the Sodium (or Potassium) Sulfate in solution so the only Output Products are Hydrogen and Oxygen.

It is very safe for use in situations where the personnel involved in operation and maintenance of the Electrolyzer are not highly skilled.

Attachment below is from this page.

[Paul-R]

As an Electrolyte for the electrolysis of water the Sulfates are very stable.

As electrolysis proceeds to produce Hydrogen and Oxygen, the intermediate byproducts are Sodium (or Potassium) Hydroxide and Sulfuric Acid.

These combine to reform the Sodium (or Potassium) Sulfate in solution so the only Output Products are Hydrogen and Oxygen.

It is very safe for use in situations where the personnel involved in operation and maintenance of the Electrolyzer are not highly skilled.

Attachment below is from this page.

This looks like a plan. Thanks for an interesting site. They look as if they know their stuff. I have asked them:
https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/150585/electrolysis-to-generate-oxygen-and-h2-how-to-calculate-electrode-size-and-ele

[sollaris1989]

If the voltage is right, I disagree. You get O2 and H2 off the electrodes. Pumping up the voltage simply heats the cell up and you would get vapour.

I don't know how you can imagine the body can't breathe O2. Ask your air force. Ask your hospital. Ask the ISS.

.......................................Thank you for the reply Paul-R.
I wish much success with your experiments and your goals ,
May you find the answers you are looking for one day.
I wish you well.

[Paul-R]

It looks as if electrolysis would work fine but is ruinously expensive. Mudped's link suggests 5,000 amps at 1.8v with 4kw of heat to be handled somehow and Quora proposes that 8 minutes of flow costs 1KWH.

Maybe oxygen concentrators could become a DIY project. In simplistic terms, it seems to be applying air at high pressure to a zeolite plug. The O2 goes through and the N2 is absorbed. Releasing the pressure allows the N2 to escape, and so the cycle repeats. (An oscillating IC engine like solution would be interesting).

[Leedskalnin]

Hi there!

Excuse me for the noise!

If in the bad corona situation lung is out of use then why we force ourselves using Ventilators?

isn't there any way to nutrient our blood with Oxygen intravenously?(for example using very diluted solution of H2O2 in distilled water)

[Paul-R]

isn't there any way to nutrient our blood with Oxygen intravenously?(for example using very diluted solution of H2O2 in distilled water)

The blood can be re-oxygenated in an external machine and this is being looked at. I reckon the cost and complexity will be way ahead of other methods. There might be mileage in a home made oxygen concentrator design. The suppliers of zeolite should point the way forward.

[Allcanadian]

Maybe splitting water to produce O2 isn't the answer...

https://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/ozone/OZONE2.html
Ozone Formation and Destruction

O3 + UV => O + O2
O + O3 => 2 O2

Net Reaction: 2 O3 + UV => 3 O2

The atmosphere is full of O2, it's simply a matter of separating the Nitrogen and Oxygen in the most practical way.

Regards
AC