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Author Topic: Faster than the wind that powers it  (Read 672 times)
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Posts: 10
I found this method of transport interesting, and im sure you will too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyQwgBAaBag&ab_channel=PaperSkiesPaperSkies

   
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Posts: 1419
When sailing, tacking into wind does it. (Remember that energy is a scalar quantity; a southerly wind can give you northerly motion).

   

Group: Tinkerer
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To see it without tacking though was slightly surreal.
   
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Now the challenge is how to convert this concept into creating more electrical power than you have coming in.   ;)
   
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Now the challenge is how to convert this concept into creating more electrical power than you have coming in.   ;)

This won't happen. The kinetic energy in the wind harnessed by the turbine is large compared to what is going on with the vehicle.
   
Group: Experimentalist
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Now the challenge is how to convert this concept into creating more electrical power than you have coming in.   ;)
This "challenge" would be a waste of time. This concept is the simple consequence of Newton's first law: we do not need energy to move (only to overcome friction, or accelerate).
Going faster than the wind with the wind energy, or even going against the wind, only surprises our common sense (including that of scientists, who denied the DWFTTW effect before they realized it  :) ), when it is perfectly understandable by the laws of physics.
The energy recovered from the wind can be used as you wish, including to go faster than the wind or against the wind, a question of engineering subtlety.
It is an amazing effect but it does not recover more than a wind turbine can.


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"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   
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Posts: 1996
What I found interesting was that the same arguments used against faster than the wind down wind are used against free energy. Don't be stupid, this all well understood, it's fake or it would be perpetual motion. Obviously it's not perpetual motion nor is free energy however it does show that a majority of people do not understand the concepts of relative motion or energy.

Regards
AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   

Group: Tinkerer
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Quote from: AC
What I found interesting was that the same arguments used against faster than the wind down wind are used against free energy.

There are numerous forms of "Free Energy."  Some are easily understood while others are not.

It seems that there are essentially two categories:  Those that are Possible and those that are Impossible.

Which forms of Free Energy do you have in mind?  Any specific areas?


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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Posts: 1996
F6FLT
Quote
It is an amazing effect but it does not recover more than a wind turbine can.

In fact, years ago I ran the numbers, did the experiment and it does convert more wind energy. However like many other turbines the problem is not efficiency but practicality and cost.

In my experimental setup I had a brushless motor and a prop connected to a shaft which rotated about a central shaft tied to a generator. Obviously the prop thrust acting against the wind can bring the wind to a complete stop in which case the air must give up all it's momentum, which is energy. The wind velocity is converted to pressure and this pressure acts on the prop causing the generator to turn. In fact the force produced is not comparable to a simple drag based device like a wind turbine blade because in this concept the wind gives up all it's momentum. In my simple experiment I proved the Betz limit is debatable because it only applies to "Drag" based devices and this design is not based solely on drag.

A conventional wind turbine is based on outdated thinking relating to sail boats in my opinion, drag based devices whirling in circles. I used to design and test wind turbine designs and model them in Solid Works Fluid, CFD. Most wind turbines suffer the same fate and the moment we try to divert the wind with a drag based device like a turbine blade 90% of the energy in the wind simply moves around the blade, the path of least resistance. So what the Betz limit actually describes is how wind energy diverts around drag based devices and nothing more.

While my tests did prove the concept is sound I have issues with it being impractical. It has too many moving parts, is overly complex and doesn't scale very well. However like most things my intent wasn't to prove it was practical but to show it works. It also proves what Viktor Schauberger was implying in that cyclic processes found in nature can extract more energy than simple drag based devices. It's actually kind of comical that were still using a simple variation of the same drag based technology used thousands of years ago in most of our flow based technologies. In any case, I find it strange that so many supposed experts can't seem to do much better than some guy a thousand years ago... doesn't instill a great deal of confidence they can think outside the box.

Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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