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Author Topic: Energy from phase change pressure of water electrolysis  (Read 505 times)
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As has been discussed on this forum as well as at overunity.com, i have simplified a proposed test apparatus
To determine a quantifiable unit of energy from HHO phase change expansion.

With modern technological advanced in the fields of both electrolysis and fuel cell technology,
We are able to achieve efficiencies of ~ 94 and 92% respectively.
Allowing for a closed system efficiency of approx. 86%

In the setup defined by the following test apparatus normal heat losses are in most, transformed into pressure.
This combined with the additional pressure of the liquid-to-gas phase change is provided completely to the output.
 
   

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As has been discussed on this forum as well as at overunity.com, i have simplified a proposed test apparatus
To determine a quantifiable unit of energy from HHO phase change expansion.

With modern technological advanced in the fields of both electrolysis and fuel cell technology,
We are able to achieve efficiencies of ~ 94 and 92% respectively.
Allowing for a closed system efficiency of approx. 86%

In the setup defined by the following test apparatus normal heat losses are in most, transformed into pressure.
This combined with the additional pressure of the liquid-to-gas phase change is provided completely to the output.

That is an invention of Evolvingape "Rob" here on this forum, it is called HOP, Grumage made a replication and has a video of it working as a pistonless pump

Regards

Mike  8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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That is an invention of Evolvingape "Rob" here on this forum, it is called HOP, Grumage made a replication and has a video of it working as a pistonless pump

Regards

Mike  8)

Well spotted Mike.  O0

I only gave the topic a cursory glance this morning.

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2288.0

Cheers Graham.


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   
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That is an invention of Evolvingape "Rob" here on this forum, it is called HOP, Grumage made a replication and has a video of it working as a pistonless pump

Regards

Mike  8)

That is an interesting device, and may also assist in understanding of this aspect of electrolysis.

The reason this research is important:

Consider a situation in which the device i show in the sketch above were connected to a fuel-cell,
in such a manner that our hydrogen cycle efficiency approaches the 86% current technology maximum.
Harvesting the hydraulic energy could bring this technology closer to Unity.
(a pre-condition for achieving OU)

For instance, once the piston F/T variables have been determined for a given system,
the piston can be geared to a rotary flywheel and generator, (or geared linear actuator/solenoid generator)
and the resultant electricity added back into the system.

This gathered my attention again (after being shelved for a few years) due to industrial applications and the energy offset claims that may imply overunity at first glance. This being the energy required to compress electrolysis hydrogen and oxygen gasses for industrial production. It turns out that allowing pressure to build up in the electrolysis chamber, can offset a great deal of electricity consumed by the compressors. When compared to the electrolysis cycle alone, which holds up to claims of 90% efficient, the energy ‘saved’ by not having to compress the gas exceeds 20% of the energy used to produce the two gasses.

It is difficult for me to imagine that our compression technology is that drastically inefficient.
Investigation of this has shown me that comprehension/release of gas by modern standards
can have total system efficiencies (when carnot energy is accounted for) of 87%.

after going over the numbers of liquid to gas phases of water under varying conditions of starting pressure and temps
it seems that there may be circumstances in which the increase in pressure may give a 2-fuel-cell system
(one being reversed for electrolysis) a total system efficiency greater than 100%

I will take a stance of relativism on this issue, by saying that it is our perspective reference of 1ATM that makes this possible.

I dont want to confuse this issue, but there is also a negative pressure (with respect to 1ATM) that can occur in the reservoir that feeds the electrolysis chamber that could be further taken advantage of hydraulically.
   

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Hi Smokey

I'm off to France early tomorrow so I can't give this a full justification now, only to say that a greater than 100% effective electrolysis is possible by reusing the oxygen to create additional power through oxidation, this I call SMD, switch mode drive electrolysis.

Regards

Mike  8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Oxidation of ??? the Hydrogen? Or something else?

(safe travels)
   
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Hi Smokey

I'm off to France early tomorrow so I can't give this a full justification now, only to say that a greater than 100% effective electrolysis is possible by reusing the oxygen to create additional power through oxidation, this I call SMD, switch mode drive electrolysis.

Regards

Mike  8)

  Thanks, Mike, for your insights through the years.
Which would you rate more highly at this time - the SMD or your more recent modified-TPU approach? 

I'm interested in which you would rate more highly.

PS -- happy travels in France!  je parle francais (un peu)
   

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Oxidation of ??? the Hydrogen? Or something else?

(safe travels)

While having breakfast in Nimes I will answer. The oxygen oxidizes an electrode like as in charging a battery.

Thanks Steve, arriving sometime this afternoon in the northeast near Strasbourg.

Regards

Mike  8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

Group: Experimentalist
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Posts: 2377


Buy me a beer
Steve

STEAP TPU, a huge potential, pun intended

Regards

Mike  8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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