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2021-10-23, 16:18:13
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Author Topic: Adams motor-generator build  (Read 603 times)
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I'm planning a new 3D printed Adams motor/generator build, here is good resource in Adams own words...
http://www.rexresearch.com/adamotor/adamotor.htm

A few quotes...
Quote
I must take Muller and his magnet manufacturers to task on their statement that "magnets can do a
tremendous amount of work" --- this is not so. In an over-unity rotary machine, the magnets are 'assisting'
to run the machine, but they are not generating the extra energy beyond the reaching of 100% efficiency.
The magnets are not doing actual work, as such, beyond that point.

Quote
In regard to another claim by Muller that he had to use powerful neodymium magnets, this also is
contrary to our findings. It matters not whether you use standard off-the-shelf 'alnico' magnets or
powerful magnets, the results are no different. It is not necessary to use powerful magnets to prove if a
machine can be constructed with over unity capability. This fact has been shown repeatedly with the
Adams machines, using small and weak magnets.

Quote
As for the establishment's texts stating that "magnets do NO real work", the establishment, for once, is
correct. It is, however, interesting to note that this is a very 'convenient' fact for the establishment to
expound upon - there could be an underlying inference here that magnets are useless for machines
designed to achieve beyond unity results.

Here Adams claims the magnets do no work, they can be almost any strength and the magnets are 'assisting'
to run the machine, but they are not generating the extra energy. I was also doing some more research and discovered that almost every replication we see on the internet was not even remotely close to Adams build specifications. Everyone was trying to build a pulsed magnet motor however Adams claims in his literature that's not what he invented. He invented a generator which uses magnets to "assist" in the generating process.

Regards
AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   

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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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Here is a good example of what not to do...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkcVtNjKY7k   

I mean it looks awesome however it's little more than a non-working toy and not an Adams Motor/Generator.

First, the coil spacing is not variable, the stator cores are too large and long, the coils are not the correct geometry, the timing is electronic and basically fixed, the rotor/coil gap is wrong and the output is not switched but instead uses a cap/diode. In essence it's a lesson in failure based on the operation of a conventional pulse motor and a standard induction generator.

Which begs the question... why even bother if they cannot even follow simple instructions?.

I'm presently working on a CAD model to 3D print a real Adams motor/generator for testing and maybe some kits.

Regards
AC
« Last Edit: 2021-10-09, 18:57:36 by Allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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I remember Patrick speaking very highly about this design at a meeting some time ago. He is very much missed and has left a gaping hole behind him. Who is looking after his site? It has been offline for some time.

What would be very useful would be a set of files for a 3D printer. Does anyone know what standards are in force and how to set about this? Even if we don't have such a device, it would probably be possible to go to a nearby town and find someone who would knock out the parts for a reasonable price.
   
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With respect to the Adams effect copied by Lutec I found this post by tinman interesting...

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3131.25
Quote
The LUTEC generator design was sold to MOBIL Australia,but the patent rights were listed under ENGEN HOLDINGS,which was a branch of company for MOBILin the 90's.-AFAIK.

What a great way to bury a device.
First you buy the rights to the device.
You then patent the device under your name.
You then stop paying patent fee's,so as not to waste any more money.

I will add, but cannot confirm, that John and Lou received 6.8 million for the design rights.

Millions of dollars paid to Lutec from an oil company for a supposedly non-working device, priceless. Of course it worked because nobody is silly enough to buy the rights to a non-working device. I think that's awesome and we should thank Mobil Oil Australia for proving it works and that it can be scaled, lol.

It's really neat that Lutec knowing they could not patent the Adams process chose to patent a switching controller instead. Hell, off the top of my head I can think of a hundred different switching configurations I could use.

Regards
AC





« Last Edit: 2021-10-12, 19:51:15 by Allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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Posts: 1419

With respect to the Adams effect copied by Lutec...


I don't think the Lutec 1000 is a copy of Adams but there may be other designs.

If you can give me a dimensioned sketch, AC, I'll see if I can convert it into a STL file for a 3d printer. (I have found a firm with a 3d printer but they haven't got a clue. They will need to be spoonfed but should get the job done).
   
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If you can give me a dimensioned sketch, AC, I'll see if I can convert it into a STL file for a 3d printer.


It seems that most CAD software can do the job with a built in utility.
   
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Paul
Quote
I don't think the Lutec 1000 is a copy of Adams but there may be other designs.

The Lutec device is definitely a copy of the Adams generator and I was going over the literature/patents again last night. It's strange because I have read all this stuff many times but I keep finding something new.

Quote
If you can give me a dimensioned sketch, AC, I'll see if I can convert it into a STL file for a 3d printer. (I have found a firm with a 3d printer but they haven't got a clue. They will need to be spoonfed but should get the job done).

I'm using Freecad and Repetier Host on a Prusa clone. I printed off version 1 which turned out good however it's needs some tweaking on the bearing supports and magnet holders. I also have to tweak the cooling fan settings and there was some slight warping. My machine was set up to print 2mm thin wall spiral forms for my Viktor Schauberger stuff. With thin wall prints the cooling has to be increased about 3X to prevent warping but over cools larger prints. So I'm in the process of building a better PWM cooling fan speed controller.

Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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I also have to tweak the cooling fan settings and there was some slight warping.

Could you programme in some cooling fins to increase the area radiating heat? And paint it black.
   

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This might help some experimenters who are pulsing inductors (e.g. motor windings) and later are trying to recover energy from them.

When a rectangular pulse transitioning abruptly from 0 to some voltage V is applied to a resistor in series with an ideal inductor (e.g. a coil) by closing the switch in the diagram below, then the following sequence of events happens:



  • 1) At the beginning (point A) no energy and no current is flowing (the switch is open).
  • 2) Shortly after the rising edge of the stimulating pulse (after the switch closes), the current increases linearly
  • 3) Some of the energy of the pulse is converted into the magnetic field in the inductor and some energy is dissipated in the resistance as heat. At this point the energy flows into the inductor faster than it is dissipated by the resistor.
  • 4) After the time equal to 0.69 Tau (point B) the energy flow (a.k.a. power) into the inductor reaches its peak and starts decreasing afterwards, eventually reaching zero power and magnetic energy equal to ½*L*(V/R)2, at Tau >> 5
  • 5) However the current through the resistor keeps increasing non-linearly but monotonically and asymptotically up to the V/R limit and the energy flow (a.k.a power), dissipated as heat in the resistor, increases similarly up to the V2/R limit.
  • 6) After time equal to 1.15 Tau (point C), the magnetic energy accumulated in the inductor reaches the break even point with the total energy dissipated as heat in the resistor up to that point in time. Continuing beyond point C guarantees that more energy is dissipated as heat in the resistor than stored as the magnetic field of the inductor.
  • 7) After a very long time the current reaches the V/R limit and the magnetic energy stored in the inductor reaches ½*L*(V/R)2 limit but the energy dissipated in the resistor increases ad infinitum at the rate (a.k.a. power) equal to V2/R.

For transformers, putting a load on the secondary winding (e.g. shorting it) has the same effect as decreasing the inductance of the primary winding (L). As a result of this, the Tau decreases and the current in the primary rises faster with time.


THE POINT:
If a constant and linear inductor is charged and later discharged at the same rate, then from efficiency point of view, it makes no sense to charge it longer than 0.5757 Tau (½ of the time C, see pt.6), because if you do, then the energy dissipated in the resistance will be higher than the energy recovered from the inductor during its discharge. 
For realistic good recovery efficiency from the above inductor, the charging time should be less than ⅛Tau.



LEGEND:
Tau = L/R (a time constant)
V = The high level voltage of the stimulating rectangular pulse.
ETOT = Total energy delivered by the supply to the series RL circuit.
EL = Energy stored in the inductor as magnetic field
ER = Energy dissipated in any resistance as heat
PL = Instantaneous Power (energy flow) flowing into the inductor
PR = Instantaneous Power (energy flow) dissipation in the resistance
iL = The current flowing through the inductor (and resistor)
       ( I can post the relevant time-domain equations on request )



« Last Edit: 2021-10-16, 13:23:09 by verpies »
   
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Verpies
Quote
THE POINT:
If a constant and linear inductor is charged and later discharged at the same rate, then from efficiency point of view, it makes no sense to charge it longer than 0.5757 Tau (½ of the time C, see pt.6), because if you do, then the energy dissipated in the resistance will be higher than the energy recovered from the inductor during its discharge.
For realistic good recovery efficiency from the above inductor, the charging time should be less than ⅛Tau.

I agree, an energy input to a coil not changing the magnetic field will generally be dissipated in the resistance. In fact this is what many inventors claimed was part of the problem with conventional systems.

This is only a small part of the problem which Adams and others go into. We should understand that Adams was the Chairman of the New Zealand Institute of Electrical Engineers. He wasn't some weekend warrior and had decades of hands on experience and knew all the theory behind it.

As Adams and others explained, a solenoid coil/core "A" produces a magnetic field which acts on a magnet "B".
1)However field B has already impinged on the core of A saturating it to some degree. This core field saturation then causes some of the input to be dissipated in the resistance of the coil as a system loss. Not an energy loss as energy is conserved.

2)So we must acknowledge there are always two fields A and B present. Not only does field B partially saturate core A increasing the power input but field B must also be removed from core A before A can act outward on B. I use hall effect magnetometers to measure the actual magnetic field density in the cores versus the energy input and external field density.

3)Thus the actual nature of the problem relates to the fact that it's not a simple matter of A acting on B. B has already acted on A creating conditions which require extra energy to overcome. This is part of the reason why the energy input to A will always be similar to the energy output of B.

In this respect most have the theory completely backwards. The COE doesn't demand things act a certain way, the action/reaction of things tends to prove the COE is valid. The COE is just a description or theory not a property or material thing. So the COE in a system is dependent on everything acting like it should and when it doesn't we run into problems. It's kind of bizarre and many tend to treat the COE like some kind of cult. This is why we should always do the experiments first and then see if it agrees with the COE not vice versa. In fact many do experiments using the COE as there premise automatically introducing a bias.

The mistake many seem to make is wanting to prove a given belief or theory is true. This is well enough however it's partially biased right off the bat. A better way is to be curious about stuff and want to see what the actual result is. What if I did X instead of Z, what would the result be?. Most suppose to already know the result without doing any experiments which isn't real science. Why even bother doing any experiments if we suppose we already know everything?. In fact most discoveries came about when an experiment went wrong, lol.

Regards
AC



---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
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With respect to the Adams effect copied by Lutec I found this post by tinman interesting...

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3131.25
Millions of dollars paid to Lutec from an oil company for a supposedly non-working device, priceless. Of course it worked because nobody is silly enough to buy the rights to a non-working device. I think that's awesome and we should thank Mobil Oil Australia for proving it works and that it can be scaled, lol.

It's really neat that Lutec knowing they could not patent the Adams process chose to patent a switching controller instead. Hell, off the top of my head I can think of a hundred different switching configurations I could use.

Regards
AC
Brad and I met with one of the original investigators on Lutec. That patent is a red herring. They had measurement errors.
   

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I agree, an energy input to a coil not changing the magnetic field will generally be dissipated in the resistance. In fact this is what many inventors claimed was part of the problem with conventional systems.

This is only a small part of the problem which Adams and others go into.
I agree that with a cored coil which is subjected to externally varying flux, my analysis refers to only a small part of the problem which Adams and others go into.
I just wanted to provide a useful tool to the builders who are designing their pulsing regime.

1)However field B has already impinged on the core of A saturating it to some degree....
The non-linear BH characteristic of the soft ferromagnetic core complicates the analysis immensely, especially if that core becomes saturated when the magnet on the rotor gets near it.

This is because a saturated core loses almost all of it differential permeability, and the loss of inductance goes with it.  If this loss is essential for the proper operation of the device then it should be verified with an inductance meter when the rotor magnet is nearest the coil.  This would be a useful engineering point on the builder's checklist.

P.S.
Perhaps you could tell me whether Adams recommends applying only enough of the current to the coil to overcome the attraction of its core to the rotor's magnet ...or he recommends applying much more current, so that the polarity of the core reverses and starts repelling the departing rotor magnet ?
   
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Verpies
Quote
I agree that with a cored coil which is subjected to externally varying flux, my analysis refers to only a small part of the problem which Adams and others go into. I just wanted to provide a useful tool to the builders who are designing their pulsing regime.

As usual your analysis was spot on. In reality there is a lot going on under the surface we don't normally see but we can measure. I like reading Faraday and Ampere's lectures because they knew how to do an experiment. It's all about removing all the noise and focusing on individual effects to figure out what's going on.

Quote
The non-linear BH characteristic of the soft ferromagnetic core complicates the analysis immensely, especially if that core becomes saturated when the magnet on the rotor gets near it.

This is because a saturated core loses almost all of it differential permeability, and the loss of inductance goes with it.  If this loss is essential for the proper operation of the device then it should be verified with an inductance meter when the rotor magnet is nearest the coil.  This would be a useful engineering point on the builder's checklist.

You nailed it, the measure of inductance relates to the coil/cores ability to generate a magnetic field which stores the input energy. If another magnetic field is already present in the core then we see the current flatline sooner which tells us the energy is being dissipated in the resistance. So on our DSO current probe were looking for the best vertical slope then a sharp cutoff before it starts going horizontal. Basically a sharp impulse at the correct moment in time to produce maximum efficiency.

Quote
P.S.
Perhaps you could tell me whether Adams recommends applying only enough of the current to the coil to overcome the attraction of its core to the rotor's magnet ...or he recommends applying much more current, so that the polarity of the core reverses and starts repelling the departing rotor magnet ?

Initially Adams claimed the rotor PM should be allowed to move to register (alignment of the PM and core) then a sharp impulse applied. Later he mentions a longer duration impulse to completely reverse the core polarity and repel the rotor magnet. I suspect that as he learned more about the effect he found that power could be increased with a minor drop in efficiency. Like any system there's always a sweet spot where power and efficiency balance giving us a best case scenario.

Regards
AC



---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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