The "Earthshot Prize". One winner is an electrolyser.

[Paul-R]

Prince William and Sir David Attenborough have just annnounced five winners of £1m each for projects to help the climate crisis:
https://earthshotprize.org/london-2021/the-earthshot-prize-winners-finalists/climate/#aem-electrolyser

One winner might interest us - an electrolyser:
https://www.enapter.com/electrolyser

https://handbook.enapter.com/electrolyser/el21/downloads/Enapter_Datasheet_EL21_EN.pdf

Comments invited.

[Allcanadian]

Paul

I think many new inventors are turning to prize competitions and enterprises like gofundme or kickstarter.

The old and corrupt paradigm of patents, investors and corporations is simply outdated. Hell, I could have my own tech company up and running selling globally before most could even get past the patent stage. It begs the question why anyone would think having droves of underachieving middlemen interfering in our business was a good idea, lol. The new model is small scale globally manufactured products sold directly to the consumer by the inventor.

I know a friend selling large cutting edge commercial drones at $20,000 a piece and making a killing. Everything is manufactured globally, assembly is in house and then sold directly to the consumer. No patents, no investors and he innovates so fast nobody could possibly keep up. This is the new business model everyone should be following in my opinion. 

Regards
AC

[Paul-R]

Paul

I think many new inventors are turning to prize competitions and enterprises like gofundme or kickstarter.

The old and corrupt paradigm of patents, investors and corporations is simply outdated. Hell, I could have my own tech company up and running selling globally before most could even get past the patent stage. It begs the question why anyone would think having droves of underachieving middlemen interfering in our business was a good idea, lol. The new model is small scale globally manufactured products sold directly to the consumer by the inventor.

I know a friend selling large cutting edge commercial drones at $20,000 a piece and making a killing. Everything is manufactured globally, assembly is in house and then sold directly to the consumer. No patents, no investors and he innovates so fast nobody could possibly keep up. This is the new business model everyone should be following in my opinion. 

Regards
AC

Yes, I'm with you on most of that. But, somehow, they've got a million in their bank account, for an electrolyser which needs 4.3 kwh to generate 1000 liters of H2, i.e 4.3wh per liter. And it weighs a ton. How does this line up with Bob Boyce's 101 plate device? (Separating the H2 and O2 shouldn't be that difficult).

[Allcanadian]

Paul

Yes, I'm with you on most of that. But, somehow, they've got a million in their bank account, for an electrolyser which needs 4.3 kwh to generate 1000 liters of H2, i.e 4.3wh per liter. And it weighs a ton. How does this line up with Bob Boyce's 101 plate device? (Separating the H2 and O2 shouldn't be that difficult).

There's a big difference between building something that works and something that lasts...

Regards
AC

[muDped]

Apparently the Hydrogen and Oxygen are produced as already separated gases.

This is easily accomplished and commercial electrolyzers are constructed to produce separated and highly pure gases for many decades.

While it is nice to obtain Hydrogen of high purity one must wonder about the Oxygen;  is it released into the atmosphere?

Their Datasheet makes no mention but the 35 bar output pressure for the Hydrogen is impressive.

But of course we all know the "secrets" and are able to replicate the functionality at a mere fraction of the price.

With a relatively small solar powered device one would be able to produce enough Hydrogen to obviate Natural Gas for heating or cooking.

[Paul-R]

1. Apparently the Hydrogen and Oxygen are produced as already separated gases.

2. With a relatively small solar powered device one would be able to produce enough Hydrogen to obviate Natural Gas for heating or cooking.

1. I was talking about the Boyce device

2. Please show us your workings.

[Chet K]

Mudped
Quote
"
With a relatively small solar powered device
one would be able to produce enough Hydrogen to obviate Natural Gas
for heating or cooking"
End quote

I would also like to learn how to do this!( so as to teach others ...

Respectfully
Chet K

[muDped]

1. I was talking about the Boyce device

2. Please show us your workings.

1.  The Boyce Device was designed to efficiently produce HydrOxy (mixed Hydrogen and Oxygen.)

2.  There are many possible "workings" which are easily constructed.

I have constructed several to test the principle and to determine the quantity of Hydrogen and Oxygen which can be produced.

My preference has been production of separated Hydrogen and Oxygen by Solar Power including storage capability for the generated gases.
.

[Paul-R]

My preference has been production of separated Hydrogen and Oxygen by Solar Power including storage capability for the generated gases.
.

Then let's see the numbers.

[muDped]

Then let's see the numbers.

My trials with the various configurations and material choices confirmed the already well-established-numbers.

I found no evidence of Over Unity nor any process that would produce the claimed Stanley Meyer Effect.

However, there are advantages to "Pulsing" the electrolyzers and feeding the pulses to the cells via Inductors with Free Wheeling Diodes.

The Plate Conditioning Process established by Bob Boyce with SS316L Plates has merit.

Neither Potassium Hydroxide nor Sodium Hydroxide is essential for the Electrolyte;  there are other safer options.

I found low electrolyzer current levels to be somewhat more efficient than high current levels.

To produce large quantities of the gases I found several electrolyzer cells operating together at low current levels to be significantly more efficient than a single cell at high current.

I did not construct any of the multiple plate versions of the electrolyzers.

Each of my electrolyzers had two plates of varying sizes and materials with provision to produce separated gases.

[Paul-R]

My trials with the various configurations and material choices confirmed the already well-established-numbers.

I found no evidence of Over Unity nor any process that would produce the claimed Stanley Meyer Effect.

However, there are advantages to "Pulsing" the electrolyzers and feeding the pulses to the cells via Inductors with Free Wheeling Diodes.

The Plate Conditioning Process established by Bob Boyce with SS316L Plates has merit....

Never mind all that stuff.

You said in your last line of post 4 : "With a relatively small solar powered device one would be able to produce enough Hydrogen to obviate Natural Gas for heating or cooking".

Which PV panels? What assumptions?

[muDped]

Which PV panels? What assumptions?

The choice of PhotoVoltaic Panels is not critical so long enough capacity is utilized to assure adequate gas production both day and night.

A PV system of several hundred watts devoted to electrolyzer operation during hours of sunlight.

A secondary PV system devoted to charging a battery system to enable reduced operation of the electrolyzer during nighttime hours.

A gas collection system which pressurizes the gases at moderate pressures into storage tanks which provide Hydrogen for cooking and heating.

Augmented by a Solar Heat Gathering and Storage Unit to provide heating of the home during daylight hours and nightime.

The assumption that enough Hydrogen can be collected and stored during the warm seasons to provide sufficient Hydrogen for the cold season.

The assumption that the home has been economically upgraded to retain warmth without excessive losses.

The necessary technical information to achieve the successful implementation may be found freely available on the web.

[Chet K]

Mudped
Not so easy peasy
Hydrogen
300 Btu per cubic foot ( or so ( generous))
28 liters per cubic foot

1000 wh electric heater 3200? Btu ( ten cubic ft hydrogen??)

I was hoping you might have some info on hydrogen and a catalyst ? Or ?( member ACCA at Stefan's had posted a tease with a catalyst from car catalytic converters and sand ( mixed with added hydrogen caused recombination plus much heat and no fumes or waste ( just back to water)
However I am not certain  if more btu"s released than energy  to electrolyze ??( However that is the/his claim ?)

Otherwise Very low calories for plain hydrogen ?

Chet K

[muDped]

Not so easy peasy

Agreed.

Those who advocate for the Hydrogen economy assure us that adjustments to "lifestyle" would be necessary.

Hydrogen as a fuel releases no toxic byproducts such as Carbon Monoxide and no Carbon Dioxide which requires venting or a chimney.

Hydrogen fueled heaters are re-engineered to accentuate Hydrogen advantages over the more wasteful Natural Gas heaters.

For example:  Hydrogen heating could be accomplished by a small heater in each room.

No central heating with heated forced air distribution required.

Very high efficiencies are possible.

It is not for everyone.  Only for those who are willing to use it creatively and effectively.