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Author Topic: STEAP and the TPU  (Read 86502 times)

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~Hmm well i'm not sure i would agree with you on some of your statements there is one video that explains some of it's inner workings or the guys name being real and in order to generate ions which is just an extra atom you need a spark generator not the sun and some kind of fuel source like aluminium or brass something rich in free electrons. One form of radiation it will produce is electro magnetic radiation impules, the same way ET gets here. Any way enough.

Sil

Ions are generated from plasma, and plasma is formed when one or more electrons are extracted. Plasma is extreamly easy to make even at atmospheric pressure and without heat, it is called a DBD or cold plasma.

Regards

Mike


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Ions are generated from plasma, and plasma is formed when one or more electrons are extracted. Plasma is extreamly easy to make even at atmospheric pressure and without heat, it is called a DBD or cold plasma.

Regards

Mike
The problem with ions and streamers is it produces ozone and it neutralises  static electricity.
the high voltage pure spike is used to do something else here (I wont go into) all this is down to timing and
going through the Don smith vids can help with the learning process.

More on ions can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_ioniser

My interest is purely educational (i don't build machines)

Sil
   

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This is not a generator, it is an atmospheric ion extractor, the medium is plasma. All around us are ions which are formed by the extraction of electrons.

Centraflow, is there possibly a simpler design/setup that would demonstrate a novel effect without necessarily producing significant power?
It seems you are working on jet engines while the rest of the world is still trying to master the first Wright Bros flight :P :P

I'm thinking of the simplest configuration that demonstrates a concept, like a model steam engine.


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   How simple do you have to get to be called simple? Take a look at this schematic and tell me where it is complicated.
Switching may have gave me a run, but it made me look at the whole picture. Three coils, three signals, some caps and
diodes. Consider that the grenade coil would generate hv. Just touch it in the wrong place and get an arc.
thay
   
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Centraflow
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Ions are generated from plasma, and plasma is formed when one or more electrons are extracted. Plasma is extreamly easy to make even at atmospheric pressure and without heat, it is called a DBD or cold plasma.

If the plasma electric universe theory is correct there may be no such thing as a plasma as we know it. Everything is plasma in one form or another.

We could think of it this way, if we were immersed in a plasma but at the same potential we would never know it. We only perceive and measure differences in potential just like a fish can sense currents but has no comprehension of the concept of water. Thus the universe could be immersed in a high density high energy plasma, the proverbial Aether/Dark Energy-Matter, and we would never know it. As such there is no need for any spooky actions at a distance.

I mean, nobody actually believes everything was created from nothing and Energy/Primary Fields/EM waves can travel through nothing do they?. It's a direct contradiction to all logic and reason. We cannot claim a space is devoid of all substance and then claim countless disturbances are traveling through that same space as we speak. That's a direct contradiction in terms.

So if we assumed the entire universe was a plasma then what were seeing as natural phenomena is little more than a rarefaction/concentration of something already present. In essence, nothing is ever created or destroyed only transformed...

Regards
AC








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   How simple do you have to get to be called simple? Take a look at this schematic and tell me where it is complicated.
Switching may have gave me a run, but it made me look at the whole picture. Three coils, three signals, some caps and
diodes. Consider that the grenade coil would generate hv. Just touch it in the wrong place and get an arc.
thay

The circuit is not the problem, but the core configuration is. I would love to replicate it because of its high promising operation, but the exact configuration of coils, seem like acting like inductors and capacitors at the same time is not obvious to me. A 3D cad model of the coil would be beneficial. I even would like to create a cad model of it or rather my understanding of it but I'm not trained in CAD tools.

For the circuit design: I would rather create an digital circuit based on FGPA. This avoids this messing around with digital logic gates and creates at sufficient clock speed very precise timing which the synthesis tool of FPGA can ensure.

So all in all, the circuit and timing is not the problem, the core is.
   

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A 3D cad model of the coil would be beneficial.

Maybe this picture will help...
Regards
Toni
   

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   How simple do you have to get to be called simple? Take a look at this schematic and tell me where it is complicated.
Switching may have gave me a run, but it made me look at the whole picture. Three coils, three signals, some caps and
diodes. Consider that the grenade coil would generate hv. Just touch it in the wrong place and get an arc.
thay

It took me a dozen test coils for me to to get enough information to accurate calculate the properties of a single air-gapped cylindrical inductor.  Adding two more sets of coils and near-field dielectric interactions and multiple interlaced harmonics makes the device very complex indeed. :o


The question of creating a plasma trapped by a magnetic field is always subject to the mean free paths of the particles, and the ability of the field to contain even particles that would tend to escape the field, through multiple collisions. A charged particle goes in a circular motion around the magnetic flux lines, and its motion parallel to the lines is only affected by an increase in the value of the magnetic field since this would cause the magnetic flux lines to come closer. When this happens, the particle is reflected. This configuration happens in the magnetosphere, the plasma around the earth trapped inside Earth's magnetic field eg. ( The Van Allen Radiation Belt ).
At atmospheric pressure, the particles undergo collisions in their motion around the magnetic flux lines, and each collision makes them "jump" from one "circle" to another, causing them to diffuse perpendicular to the magnetic field, and perpendicular to the ground core of our solenoids, a thing that was impossible without collisions because of the constraining property of the magnetic field. The electrons are not completely confined, their density in the region of containment is still orders of magnitude higher than outside that region, but may have been of concern when Steven Mark had a visit from the Nuclear agency in the USA.
 When particles are confined by a magnetic field, they circle in a characteristic radius equal to the gyroradius( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroradius )of that couple magnetic field/particle. Unless you have tremendously high magnetic fields, or impossibly small speeds ( to ignite a plasma, electrons need speed, or they recombine fast), this gyroradius will be a lot more than microns. This means, finally, that your particles are not at all contained by the magnetic field, but rather by the speed of the decay of the plasma, they will usually recombine faster than they will escape the field.
In the TPU application of plasma, this fast recombination is not the case, the Atmospheric Dielectric Plasma, or DBD, which is bi-temperature, non-equilibrium plasma, is a cold gas plasma. This plasma consumes a lot less energy than the hot plasma and has proven plasma lifetimes high enough to observe "balls" of plasma, drifting together with the gas flow (simple mechanical flow) until a few tenths of centimeters. These "balls" of plasma are mostly rich in radicals, i.e. species, created by the plasma, that "should not exist" in the neutral gas because they have very short lifetimes. These radicals are used in plasma chemistry, material transformation, and why it is used to treat anything that can be "treated" by such radicals.
I have shown in the TPU that the core of the solenoids is a plate of a capacitor “C1”, and that the inside surface of the solenoid coils is the other plate of “C1” (collector core is perpendicular to the solenoid coil, no induction, only capacitance). The way that the solenoid coils are connected to one another, a type of resonant delay line is created as the plasma on the surface of the dielectric passes through the solenoids. This delay creates movements of around a few Hz through the solenoids, this is the washboard effect that was talked about as movement felt within the TPU of Steven Mark.
See also   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetosphere_particle_motion

Absolute gold for me, thanks Centraflow.

I guess my open-ended question is focused to finding the absolute simplest embodiment that demonstrates capture/acceleration/manipulation/detection of cold plasma without necessarily producing energy.  Fewer parts makes the process easier to illustrate+understand as well as easier to model.

* High voltages (to liberate plasma from conductor)
* Magnetic field (to confine the liberated plasma)
* Complex/alternating waves/impulses (to accelerate the plasma?)

It might be possible to achieve all three of these within a pair of properly-wound coils, or perhaps even a single coil? ??? C.C


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  Put an L/C meter across a similar setup. Each coil will have an L value. Now read the C to the core. The large wire group of the core is as said, one plate of the C and the coils are the other. I have measured that on mine.
thay
   

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Gentlemen.

I have been away but am now back home.

Regards

Mike




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Here is how SM hid his explanation of the 3 frequencies and the X 2.1 and X 3.2.

The drive is very simple, it is why there was very little in the way of electronics. It is a master oscillator which is the running frequency, the other two are also running at that frequency but NOT THE DUTY, "B" is 180º out of phase with "C" and "A".

I hope you see what has been done.

Regards

Mike


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I think i have it, but to put it another way ...all at the same master resonant  frequency, but a and b are only duty cycle adjusted?

Thanks Mike

   
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Maybe this picture will help...
Regards
Toni

Who is this coming from? Is that generated by you? I am impressed!
Is it possible to make the individual coils successively transparent in the image or can you send me the CAD file somehow?

Thank you.
   

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I think i have it, but to put it another way ...all at the same master resonant  frequency, but a and b are only duty cycle adjusted?

Thanks Mike

Attached is how this is done. The "C" frequency, resonant frequency, can be made by any means, SG, crystal oscillator or another CD 4047 as in the attached.

Setting up should be done with an oscilloscope to obtain the right rising and falling edges as highlighted in color on the pulse drawing, this is where the tunning is required. The adjusting of the timing of the "one-shots" changes the ON time duration, it's that simple.

The outputs go to the MOSFET drivers and that's it. SM did not use opto drivers so he used buffers with a pull-up resistor to sharpen the pulse from his one-shots formed by gates. The CD 4047 sinks current, as well as buffers, do.

There now only remains how exactly the internal power loop and input are made, I have given all the hints but not the "exact" way.

Remember that a HV is needed across C1 (the core), this is where the electrons are extracted and positive and negative ions are formed, added and added.

Regards

Mike


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I understand the idea of what you're doing, but am still a bit confused on some of the specifics.
 1 - The core principle guiding the frequency mixing/parametrics/inter-harmonics.  It sounds like the interaction creates a net-motion in the ions liberated via the high voltage?
Would this then be a fitting analogy for the concept?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsd5bH0y8g4


 2 - Cold plasma interaction/acceleration/pumping via EM (or just magnetic) waves.  Thankfully this is much easier to experiment with and confirm on the bench.
It sounds like the 'capture' is relative to the field density, I wonder if the field has to be active/changing or if a static field from a simple magnet might suffice?
Also a question is whether the ion storage/acceleration process is occurring inside the dielectric of the silicone wire or in the space between conductors.  If it is inside the dielectric, then uncoated magnet wire might be completely unsuitable for these types of experiments.  That by itself narrows things down immensely.  It would also give us a clear list of materials as everything besides PTFE+HDPE+silicone tends to have fairly poor loss characteristics overall.


Thanks for sharing everything you have Centraflow ;)  I'm just trying to break the core concepts down into bite-sized morsels. :P


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I understand the idea of what you're doing, but am still a bit confused on some of the specifics.
 1 - The core principle guiding the frequency mixing/parametrics/inter-harmonics.  It sounds like the interaction creates a net-motion in the ions liberated via the high voltage?
Would this then be a fitting analogy for the concept?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsd5bH0y8g4


 2 - Cold plasma interaction/acceleration/pumping via EM (or just magnetic) waves.  Thankfully this is much easier to experiment with and confirm on the bench.
It sounds like the 'capture' is relative to the field density, I wonder if the field has to be active/changing or if a static field from a simple magnet might suffice?
Also a question is whether the ion storage/acceleration process is occurring inside the dielectric of the silicone wire or in the space between conductors.  If it is inside the dielectric, then uncoated magnet wire might be completely unsuitable for these types of experiments.  That by itself narrows things down immensely.  It would also give us a clear list of materials as everything besides PTFE+HDPE+silicone tends to have fairly poor loss characteristics overall.


Thanks for sharing everything you have Centraflow ;)  I'm just trying to break the core concepts down into bite-sized morsels. :P

Thank you for your interest.

If you think about a transformer, the medium of transfer is the core which is an alternating magnetic field within iron or ferrite. STEAP uses a core as well for its transfer, but it is in itself not only magnetic, it is also ionic because it is a plasma, it is only magnetic if it moves.

I'm getting bitten to death by mosquitos on a terrace atm, so I'm going to continue this probably tomorrow, it's the time of day when they get hungry at 7 pm.

This gets warm, most silicons have a breakdown voltage of around 600v, 200ºc, the plasma forms ON the dielectric, you also need TIN-coated multi-strand copper as the plasma will oxidise the copper, multi-strand for a larger surface area. Ordinary flex could be used but it will not last for long, that was SM's problem "heat".

Regards

Mike


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Kw61271Cs

I think a good proof-of-concept would be to build a Kundt tube and feed it the same harmonic series used by a TPU prototype.
If free ions/electrons are being 'pumped' harmonically then we might expect to see a similar pumping action with styrofoam beads. :P

An even larger+simpler version would involve a long chamber of water and a variable servo at one end to modulate wave action.


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Not sure I have posted this before, but this shows what is happening wave-wise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4y8zBGH0zY

The frequency is not really a mix, it is all the same frequency, it is multiple phasing created by a clever delay line. There is an ultimate frequency though, it is very slow, and it is in the moving wave action. This is all underlaying DC pulses which are formed from the two sources "A" and "C" which add up to near a 100% duty (DC).

Both "A" and "C" individually without the "toroid" coils are boost converters. The CMCs are just constant current supplies. The coils and the way they are connected form delays in the output pulses through inductance changes. The loop core is connected to the drain of "A" MOSFET and it is one plate of the C1 capacitor, the other plate is the "b" coils ground-referenced through the "B" MOSFET at a switching frequency which is the same as "A" and "C" but 180º out of phase. Why is this!! because the interest is the DISCHARGE area of "A" and "C", and not the charge timing. C1 (very complicated) and the coils are the resonant circuit which has a Fr resonant frequency which can be changed by the value of an added capacitor, C2.

The "B" mosfet acts as a resonant transition gate. Input power is only taken when the resonance is isolated. When "B" is ON the circuit is at full resonance with C1 and C2 in series. When "B" is OFF the frequency of resonance goes sky high because there are only the coils and their self-capacitance of them. This transition is the pump. With "B" OFF the chokes charge, you could say the front and back ends of the circuit do not see one another.

Regards

Mike


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To save a lot of work that has already been done, look at Naudins site here

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/plasma/html/s_gdp3.htm

Look through other parts as he delved into cold plasma quite a lot.

Regards

Mike


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This is caused by the delay formed by the coils.

I have posted this before, but it is important to understand that the resonance, albeit the same frequency, is multiple.

Regards

Mike


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you could say the front and back ends of the circuit do not see one another.

I would also consider how the impedance of the coil is changing with respect to time, as loading+unloading will change the characteristics of the system as a whole (intermittently turning a half-wave resonator into a quarter-wave resonator and vice-versa).
If this were the case, then it might be possible to precisely predict the COP by measuring the ratio between the 'high-water' impedance and the 'low-water' impedance.

I count 24 phase shifts within each long-wave period of your clip.  So, if the phase is continually advancing with respect to time, then every 23 natural cycles we would end up with 24 cycles of induction (buy 23 get 1 free ;D).   That would result in a smaller but directly-predictable formula.

And if the phase is also advancing physically with respect to time, it might also be acting as an 'ion accelerator' (as the Kundt tube analogy above).  That would better explain the need for HV in this configuration, but unfortunately leaves a bigger computational hole to model+predict the exact output in such a system.  At the least we would expect it to be proportional to the standing DC high voltage at the center of the coil.

I appreciate all the 'kickstarters' you post, it is such a breath of fresh air to see theory+practice at the same time ;D (so many posts are either 100% theory with no experiments, or clear schematics with no operating principle/theory). O0


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I would also consider how the impedance of the coil is changing with respect to time, as loading+unloading will change the characteristics of the system as a whole (intermittently turning a half-wave resonator into a quarter-wave resonator and vice-versa).
If this were the case, then it might be possible to precisely predict the COP by measuring the ratio between the 'high-water' impedance and the 'low-water' impedance.

I count 24 phase shifts within each long-wave period of your clip.  So, if the phase is continually advancing with respect to time, then every 23 natural cycles we would end up with 24 cycles of induction (buy 23 get 1 free ;D).   That would result in a smaller but directly-predictable formula.

And if the phase is also advancing physically with respect to time, it might also be acting as an 'ion accelerator' (as the Kundt tube analogy above).  That would better explain the need for HV in this configuration, but unfortunately leaves a bigger computational hole to model+predict the exact output in such a system.  At the least we would expect it to be proportional to the standing DC high voltage at the center of the coil.

I appreciate all the 'kickstarters' you post, it is such a breath of fresh air to see theory+practice at the same time ;D (so many posts are either 100% theory with no experiments, or clear schematics with no operating principle/theory). O0

You are welcome. It is a very deep rabbit hole, but there is light at the end of the tunnel if you keep at it.

HV is a must to create the DBD, no plasma no ionic interreaction.

Regards

Mike


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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HV is a must to create the DBD, no plasma no ionic interreaction.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Schematic-of-a-DBD-plasma-actuator_fig1_310632302

After cursory research, I think exploration of the properties of Dielectric Barrier Discharge plasma easily warrants its own thread and more detailed study.

Initial experiments would likely be geared toward static and applied magnetic fields to see if such cold plasmas can be accelerated, suppressed, or bent akin to what happens in a CRT.


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Seeing that schematic of a DBD plasma actuator reminds me of my time working with missile radomes where one source of noise in the radar was charge flowing across the outer surface of the radome.  This was called streaking.  Raindrop impact on the surface caused the charge in the form of electrons to be deposited there by the tribo-electric effect.  When sufficient charge was deposited there would be a discharge path across the surface to the missile metal skin. I was also involved with detection of explosives using ion mass spectrometry that used something like a cathode ray gun but unlike cathode ray electrons that travel in vacuum the ions travel in gas so the behavior is quite different.  Don't fall into the trap of believing the plasma will behave like cathode rays.
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Seeing that schematic of a DBD plasma actuator reminds me of my time working with missile radomes where one source of noise in the radar was charge flowing across the outer surface of the radome.  This was called streaking.  Raindrop impact on the surface caused the charge in the form of electrons to be deposited there by the tribo-electric effect.  When sufficient charge was deposited there would be a discharge path across the surface to the missile metal skin. I was also involved with detection of explosives using ion mass spectrometry that used something like a cathode ray gun but unlike cathode ray electrons that travel in vacuum the ions travel in gas so the behavior is quite different.  Don't fall into the trap of believing the plasma will behave like cathode rays.
Smudge

You are quite right, it is not like inside a cathode ray tube. DBD is even more special because the plasma forms between two plates of a capacitor, to be exact, on the dielectric. It is here that there is a huge charge buildup.

STEAP uses this to gain charge from the ion's within the atmosphere, that charge that always exists which was created by the Sun and resulting in the Ionesphere which safe guards extream radiation from the Sun, but still there is charge always.

The plasma is the vehicle to extract and add some of this charge, 24/7, not only during light hours. This is using the unique high ionic charge created within the capacitance and on the dielectric surface.

Recycling part of this charge in a particular way, keeps this system going. If a unit, for example, produced an output of 1kwhr but to start it 250w, 750w in 24 hrs would give you sufficient to run an average house when used with batteries for high consumption peaks.

This is the goal, and is in the hands of professionals at this very minute.

Regards

Mike


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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