Energy from electron spin

Author Topic: Energy from electron spin (Read 40766 times)

Smudge	Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #175 on: 2026-01-28, 10:15:48 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2332	Itsu, I did not answer your request for information regarding the Din interface on the amplifier. Graham Gunderson built that for me some 20 years ago and he did give me the circuit, but several computers later I can't find that data. I will try to contact him but he has gone through a number of email addresses over time. Smudge

Verpies

Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #176 on: 2026-01-28, 13:24:51 »

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Quote from: Smudge on 2026-01-28, 10:10:37

IMO that area will not affect the results, but that is easy to find out. Measuring DC microvolts is difficult due to noise (the amplifier Itsu uses has a low pass filter to suppress noise effects) and DC drift.

The loop area should not affect any DC effects but the ordinary low-frequency AC induction in that loop could confuse the x1000 µV amplifier.
I would not be surprised if that amplifier could not completely low-pass filter out the 50Hz powerline hum.

Itsu

Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #177 on: 2026-01-28, 13:31:03 »

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Quote from: Smudge on 2026-01-28, 10:15:48

Itsu,
I did not answer your request for information regarding the Din interface on the amplifier. Graham Gunderson built that for me some 20 years ago and he did give me the circuit, but several computers later I can't find that data. I will try to contact him but he has gone through a number of email addresses over time.
Smudge

Smudge, it is not that important, i guess it is to connect an external meter (+- uV meter) or so.

Concerning this:

Quote

Quote
Swapping the black side stack from N-pole to S-pole will show 4uV both with the black wire at the end or in the middle of the iron wire.

You say "will" show, but I assume you mean that was measured, in which case that is unexpected.

Yes, i mean i did measure this, somehow there is no difference in the data when attaching the black lead to the end of the iron wire or in the middle.

I will retest to confirm this and also retest the shorter wire with the longer connection leads as verpies mentioned it could be due to these longer wires (loop).

Itsu

« Last Edit: 2026-01-28, 13:32:20 by Itsu »

F6FLT

Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #178 on: 2026-01-28, 16:21:38 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2026-01-26, 15:45:36

Here my replication attempt with the equipment i got.

I measure some -4uV on this 1.5m long iron wire (garden binding wire) no matter what direction / pole i connect the magnets stack to the wire.

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGyDMttnRBk

Itsu

Hi Itsu,

I just did some tests with a setup similar to yours. I replaced the wire with an iron bar covered in stainless steel.
When I place the magnet at one end, I don't see much change. If I leave it there for 10 to 20 seconds and then remove it, I see an increase of between 20 and 40 µV, followed by a slow decrease. But this effect, which I've seen several times, doesn't seem to be systematic.
As in your configuration, there is indeed at times a clear signal of a current that appears to be abnormal. But there are several possible reasons and it is difficult to identify them (for example, contacts between different metals to establish the circuit, e.g. copper/iron, we know that these junctions create DDPs). It needs to be explored further.
I am lucky to have an old but reliable HP 3468A, which measures µV directly. In the photos, the white areas just hide the mess :-). We can see that we only had 2µV with the magnet, but 21µV just after I removed it and before the voltage slowly dropped.

Energy from electron spin

img.jpg (169.97 kB, 788x728 - viewed 40 times.)

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"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"

Smudge

Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #179 on: 2026-01-28, 18:48:35 »

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Here is an unfinished paper on this topic. Itsu's -4uV from his 0.5T magnets if of the right order compared to my calculated 10uV from 1T. That basic equation (1) is known but I can find no evidence of it being used other than in the Stern Gerlach beam splitting. I will continue with this paper to include a consideration where the electron dipoles are modelled as tiny current loops to show that the energy into a load comes from those current loops; as they move along the non-uniform field the voltage induced into those loops loads their current sources and that exactly accounts for the everlasting energy output.

Smudge

Everlasting Battery.pdf (241.27 kB - downloaded 5 times.)

Smudge

Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #180 on: 2026-01-28, 18:57:37 »

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Quote from: Verpies on 2026-01-28, 13:24:51

The loop area should not affect any DC effects but the ordinary low-frequency AC induction in that loop could confuse the x1000 µV amplifier.
I would not be surprised if that amplifier could not completely low-pass filter out the 50Hz powerline hum.

I am sure it does, I have used it attached to an oscilloscope and there is no sign of 50Hz hum. I think some of the drift being observed is due to the low-pass filter having sub hertz cut-off.

Itsu

Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #181 on: 2026-01-28, 19:53:00 »

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Quote from: F6FLT on 2026-01-28, 16:21:38

Hi Itsu,

I just did some tests with a setup similar to yours. I replaced the wire with an iron bar covered in stainless steel.
When I place the magnet at one end, I don't see much change. If I leave it there for 10 to 20 seconds and then remove it, I see an increase of between 20 and 40 µV, followed by a slow decrease. But this effect, which I've seen several times, doesn't seem to be systematic.
As in your configuration, there is indeed at times a clear signal of a current that appears to be abnormal. But there are several possible reasons and it is difficult to identify them (for example, contacts between different metals to establish the circuit, e.g. copper/iron, we know that these junctions create DDPs). It needs to be explored further.
I am lucky to have an old but reliable HP 3468A, which measures µV directly. In the photos, the white areas just hide the mess :-). We can see that we only had 2µV with the magnet, but 21µV just after I removed it and before the voltage slowly dropped.

Hi F6,

i was hoping that someone with a good uV meter would join in, so thanks for that.

I, too, see very little response (only +-1uV) on my short iron wire (30cm) compared to the earlier used 1.6m wire, even with longer connection leads to create a comparable "loop" length.

I also noticed that touching the wire and/or connectors/magnets with my fingers will cause a much bigger voltage swing (10 to 15uV) which stays on for several minutes then simply using the magnets only.
So therefor i carefully try to avoid touching anything with my fingers when working on the setup.

But the effect you mentioned of not seeing much change when connecting the magnet and only after removing the magnet to see a 20 to 40uV change, i have not noticed here.
(by the way, it can initially take up to 5 minutes for a reasonable change to be seen here).

Could it be that the makeup of your rod (an iron bar covered in stainless steel) has anything to do with this?

Anyway, perhaps you find the time to look for a 1.6m @ 1.5mm piece of garden iron wire to repeat your test.

Itsu

Itsu

Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #182 on: 2026-01-28, 20:43:52 »

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Quote from: Verpies on 2026-01-28, 09:15:41

Maybe it is not about the wire length but about the area of the loop that it forms together with the test leads.

I made the following test with the short iron wire, but with extended connection leads to have about the same "loop" length as with the longer wire.

It shows similar results (+-1uV) as with the short wire and short connections on the bench, but it seems to fluctuate more and shows a kind of rising first followed by a slow decrease, see video: https://youtu.be/EeNds3Q8-j4

« Last Edit: 2026-01-28, 20:44:52 by Itsu »

partzman

Re: Energy from electron spin « Reply #183 on: 2026-01-28, 21:24:30 »

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FWIW,

I have an HP3455A which has 1uv resolution. I tried various pieces including baling wire(soft iron), chrome plated steel, iron rod, etc, and found no abnormal measurements with a stack of 5 x 3/8" N52 neo pms. There were varying readings of +/- 2 to 3uv in all cases with both PM polarities. These same variations were seen with the copper connecting leads shorted. Yes I checked the continuity or resistance values of each piece with the connections made.

Pm

« Last Edit: 2026-01-28, 21:25:34 by partzman »