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2022-10-04, 22:09:41
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Author Topic: Inertial Magnetic Propulsion  (Read 464 times)
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Thought I'd spin this one off in its separate thread. This idea comes from the fact that the spin of an electron is not mechanically affected when a force is acting on it. In this the case the force would be caused by the moving charges in the Antenna which themselves feel a force forward. However due to this lack of reaction force the whole assembly should feel a mechanical force. I added a big of extra length to the Antenna so the antenna current has more chance to "work" as the antenna current is 0 at the ends.

But this can ONLY! work if the circuit is en OPEN circuit aka antenna. In a closed circuit, the other part of the circuit will exactly cancel all forces. The source of the magnetic field is also changing direction or else the force will just oscilate back and forth. Therefore a ferrite is used with a coil that changes it's field in sync with the antenna current. I'm no EM engineer but I'm not sure how realistic it is to get ferrite to work at RF frequencies and provide a sufficiently strong field. If we consider the simple F=B*I*L formula for the force we need at least currents of 10A to see something noticeable.  Do such high currents even flow in an antenna???
« Last Edit: 2022-08-23, 17:00:09 by broli »
   
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...we need at least currents of 10A to see something noticeable.  Do such high currents even flow in an antenna???

I'm just answering this point for now. Most antennas have a resistive impedance R of 50 ohms. A basic ham radio installation is 100 W, and often followed by an amp in the KW range.
The current can be calculated quite simply. P=R*I² so I=sqrt(P/R).
For 100 W : I = 1.4 A
For 1 KW : I = 4.47 A
This current is the one that really flows at the antenna connection point.
For 10A, a power of 5 KW would be needed, this becomes quasi-professional equipment.

But the current in an antenna of non-negligible size compared to the wavelength, and even compared to the quarter-wave, is not constant along the conductor. If the antenna is 1/4 wavelength long, the maximum current supplied by the transmitter will drop to zero at the end of the antenna.
The current distribution in a dipole antenna, as a function of its length: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edyFGAT_87o

To have a higher current without increasing the power, one would have to design an antenna with a lower impedance. With a 10 ohm antenna and 1 KW, one would have 10A, at least in a part of the antenna. Since the impedance of commercial transmitters is 50 ohms, a ferrite transformer or a tuner box will be needed to do the impedance matching. This may also answer your question about ferrites: yes, they can handle this kind of high RF current, with a proportional magnetic flux, but you have to choose the right size and type of ferrite for the frequencies used.
This is a difficult project.


---------------------------
"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   
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Posts: 194
 
Antennas

Antennas are used to convert the system impedance (typically 50 ohms or 75 ohms) to the
"freespace" impedance of typically 377 ohms. This free-space impedance is a result of physical constants
of nature (like the speed of light, etc.).

The simple goal is to match the device feed to free-space (aether). There are a multitude of ways of
accomplishing this match - narrow band generally follows a wave-length rule, while wideband generally
is based on the structures "Q".

The 50 ohm or 75 ohm or 300 ohm side of the receiver/transmitter device is (arbitrarily) set by the
electronic design requirements. Coax cable or twin-axial flat cable or whatever cable structure
generally sets this design requirement.


   
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I'm just answering this point for now. Most antennas have a resistive impedance R of 50 ohms. A basic ham radio installation is 100 W, and often followed by an amp in the KW range.
The current can be calculated quite simply. P=R*I² so I=sqrt(P/R).
For 100 W : I = 1.4 A
For 1 KW : I = 4.47 A
This current is the one that really flows at the antenna connection point.
For 10A, a power of 5 KW would be needed, this becomes quasi-professional equipment.

But the current in an antenna of non-negligible size compared to the wavelength, and even compared to the quarter-wave, is not constant along the conductor. If the antenna is 1/4 wavelength long, the maximum current supplied by the transmitter will drop to zero at the end of the antenna.
The current distribution in a dipole antenna, as a function of its length: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edyFGAT_87o

To have a higher current without increasing the power, one would have to design an antenna with a lower impedance. With a 10 ohm antenna and 1 KW, one would have 10A, at least in a part of the antenna. Since the impedance of commercial transmitters is 50 ohms, a ferrite transformer or a tuner box will be needed to do the impedance matching. This may also answer your question about ferrites: yes, they can handle this kind of high RF current, with a proportional magnetic flux, but you have to choose the right size and type of ferrite for the frequencies used.
This is a difficult project.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I knew this wasn't going to be an afternoon project. In fact the radiation is unwanted really. It's only with an open circuit (antenna/capacitor) that you can break the symmetry of a closed loop circuit. As for the current that is why I tried to bend some of the antenna on the edges of the ferrite. In fact now that I think about it you could probably even make this bend piece longer as it contains a smaller overal current anyway thus will contribute a small force on the top piece of electron spin current (which WILL feel a mechanical force).
   
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Since radiation is not really something that is needed here I have been brainstorming about potential ideas to reduce radiation. I came up with a design that was inspired by Steffen Kuhn's paper. However I'm not that sure whether this will reduce radiation that much as it will mostly depend on de frequency/wavelength especially if large currents are desired.

But even for smaller currents. Using simple F=B*I*L math a trust in milligrams range should be possible which is well within the sensitivity of commercial scales. The implications of that would make a bigger design a mere engineering challenge.

Even this design might not be optimal as we want the largest possible current to flow near the edges which the previous Z-design could offer. Another idea is just to use a mirrored Z-design version to reduce the radiation due to having two mirrored dipole antennas near each other.
   
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I made a youtube video explaining this concept for a more simple thought experiment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxRxXuiChr4

As I say in the description of the video. I believe the electron spin in ferromagnets allows us to interact with a relativistic system from a non relativistic frame which leads to this apparent disappearing of forces applied to the electron spin current. Which could be exploited to generate a non zero mechanical force on the entire system.

In case of this rotation example nothing useful can be done. However in the proposed linear example it means you can generate a potential lifting force. But again this is ONLY possible in an open circuit loop, a closed circuit loop will cause all mechanical forces to cancel out.

However as I stated energy is conserved. So probably the higher the velocity the higher the back EMF will be inside the antenna.
« Last Edit: 2022-08-24, 16:45:23 by broli »
   
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I believe I have resolved the "paradox" that was breaking my head.

If you consider a super conductor you can easily see how having accelerating charges above it will make it perfectly adjust to the change as to keep the field constant as well. In that case both a current and rotation of the bulk will arise.

However with a permanent magnet I kept looking at the positive and negative charges being bound to each other. So all the forces on the bulk would always cancel. Leaving only the force due to virtual edge electron spin current. This would lead to the conclusion that this force has no mechanical or electrical effect on the magnet as we don't see a magnet rotate when it's subject to a changing magnetic field due to a coil. But at the same time this would lead to the conclusion that any force acting to increase/decrease this current has no effect but its reaction force could have an effect (for instance on the antenna mentioned in this thread).

However an alternate explanation is that you cannot consider all the electrons to be part of the bulk and static in a permanent magnet. The small piece of spin of an electron that is on the outside edge of the magnet should no longer be considered part of the bulk. But must be seen to have a non zero velocity. And the second conclusion is that this force acting on this small piece of spin would also couple back to the bulk. This is the only explanation that would not break the conservation of momentum.

But this means that we have a unique property now too. That a force acting on the electron spin to decrease/increase the spin couples back to the bulk. Can we exploit this?
   
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