Clemente Figuera revisited

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Verpies

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #100 on: 2026-04-25, 16:04:51 »

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Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-22, 08:23:15

test
Coil turns 76.5 turns , 151 turns , 224 turns
R is 0.068 ohm , 0.152 ohm, 0.25 ohm
Total induction no core across all turns is 1.49mH
Induction with core plus shoe is 9.25mH if the other core is placed 7 mm opposite, then induction is 10.23mH

Air core 151uH , 647uH, 1.53mH
core and shoe 1.1mH , 4.28mH, 9.2mH
oposing cores 1.23mH, 4.75mH, 10.2mH
R 0.06 , 0.15, 0.25 ohm.

According to this data, the longest L/R time constant is 40.8ms when the inductance is 10.2mH and resistance is 0.25Ω.
This analysis demonstrates that when the current flows in such LR circuit longer than 0.5757*40.8ms=23.5ms then more energy is dissipated as heat in the resistance than is stored as the magnetic field of the inductor. Heat is irreversibly lost energy.

When using the 5Ω rheostat + the commutated variable resistance 1+1+5+5+5+1+1Ω, the break-even time shortens proportionally (up to 96x shorter when all these resistances are in series).
Thus any hope for high-efficiency through electromagnetic induction and magnetic energy storage and recovery is dashed.

https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/k7jsec.gif

Clemente Figuera revisited

Reciprocating bucking magnetic flux of
2 coaxial solenoids energized by out-of-phase currents.

https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/scalarbm3.gif

Clemente Figuera revisited

Other effects, like phenomena occurring in the arcing of the commutator are not so disqualified.
However there are so many arcing systems that have been built with a single contact or a single spark gap, that it is very implausible that multiple segment commutator would be any superior or involve a novel arc-based energy gain mechanism that a simpler single contact/gap did not. ...unless you are Rube Goldberg.

This points to the conclusion that the entire electromechanical commutator with the resistor ladder is just a slow low-resolution DAC and sequencer that modulates current flowing in these two sets of windings.
The way this DAC is connected points to an intention of creating a time-varying current that increases in one set of windings while decreasing in the other set of windings. Possibly to keep their sum constant ...and the fluxes that these currents generate, too.

Since any claims of energy efficiency of transformer-like induction are refuted due to dominating resistive losses at plausible frequencies, the remaining investigation of the gain mechanism should focus on the magnetic flux distribution (and its virtual movement) in the air gap of differently arranged windings. Not necessarily coaxially.

chief kolbacict	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #101 on: 2026-04-25, 17:28:19 »
Sr. Member Posts: 436	People usually try to get rid of sparking on the brushes of power tools. Because sparks are causing losses. What happens if we use a plasma switch with negative resistance instead of a collector and brushes?

Verpies

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #102 on: 2026-04-25, 17:35:59 »

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Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026-04-25, 17:28:19

People usually try to get rid of sparking on the brushes of power tools. Because sparks are causing losses.
What happens if we use a plasma switch with negative resistance instead of a collector and brushes?

Whatever happens with one switch, one contact, one spark-gap is enough for what is to be manifested.
Increasing the number of contacts/commutators to 8 will not change the effect.

CITFTA

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #103 on: 2026-04-25, 19:05:19 »

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Believing in something false doesn't make it true.

Here's a video I did that might interest you if you are working on the Figuera device. I'll try to answer any questions about what I have done if anyone is interested.

https://youtu.be/P6WswleHSzk?si=mM2XGjYxSiEVgPsJ

Carroll

PS: I later found out I could add voltage to the field coils and remove the drive motor. Then the 12 volts going to the brushes caused the motor to run and powered the coils at the same time.

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Just because it is on YouTube does not make it real.

Verpies

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #104 on: 2026-04-25, 19:46:31 »

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I noticed that some people believe in the following:

Quote from: Hanon

There is no mechanical dragging since nothing moves. Just the magnetic flux lines move back and forth. The wires are exposed to tension stress due to the Lorentz force created inside them, but as they are packed tightly this force is not creating and drag because no mass is required to be moving.

This is correct. No mass is moving there fore there is no mechanical drag anywhere to be identified.

Quote from: Hanon

The opposing magnetic field created by the induced current does not counteract the inducer field because this kind of manifestation of Lenz Law is found just in flux linking devices (transformers) and Figuera's generator is a generator based on flux cutting induction equations. Generators do not suffer this effect.

This is incorrect.
The distinction between flux linking and flux cutting devices is only nominative.

The Faraday disk (homopolar generator) is a historically famous case that exposed this nominative ambiguity.
A conducting disk rotates in a uniform axial magnetic field. Radial current flows due to the Lorentz force v×B on the electrons - a textbook flux-cutting device.

Yet the net magnetic flux through any fixed surface bounded by the external circuit does not change with time.
By the naive "flux-linking" paradigm, there should be no EMF.
This apparent paradox arises precisely because people tried to force a nominative distinction onto a single underlying phenomenon.
The resolution is to use the full motional-EMF integral ∮(v×B)⋅dℓ, which handles both cases uniformly.

Verpies	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #105 on: 2026-04-25, 20:06:31 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: CITFTA on 2026-04-25, 19:05:19 Here's a video I did that might interest you if you are working on the Figuera device. I'll try to answer any questions about what I have done if anyone is interested. So you are alternatingly pulsing the left and right coil with a rectangular waveform. Are these coils open-circuited between the pulses ?

CITFTA

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #106 on: 2026-04-25, 20:26:38 »

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Believing in something false doesn't make it true.

Quote from: Verpies on 2026-04-25, 19:46:31

So you are alternatingly pulsing the left and right coil with a rectangular waveform.
Are these coils open-circuited between the pulses ?

Hi Verpies,

Look at the scope shots again. You can see the steps of voltage change in the output. The slip ring is connected to one segment of the commutator. So as that segment rotates it comes in contact with the positive brush and then rotates to the negative brush but in between it is still connected because of the motor being a lapwound motor. So there is a gradual change from positive to negative and back again. When the segment is midway between brushes each coil is being powered by 6 volts. When the segment is at the positive brush the coil powered by the positive side is effectively shorted out and the other coil is now getting the full 12 volts and vise versa. Floodrod has the schematic on his website.

Carroll

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Just because it is on YouTube does not make it real.

Verpies

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #107 on: 2026-04-25, 22:27:48 »

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Quote from: CITFTA on 2026-04-25, 20:26:38

The slip ring is connected to one segment of the commutator. So as that segment rotates it comes in contact with the positive brush and then rotates to the negative brush but in between it is still connected because of the motor being a lapwound motor. So there is a gradual change from positive to negative and back again. When the segment is midway between brushes each coil is being powered by 6 volts. When the segment is at the positive brush the coil powered by the positive side is effectively shorted out and the other coil is now getting the full 12 volts and vise versa.

This would mean that the Left/Right coils are never open-circuited but they are shunted by the inductors comprising the armature.

CITFTA	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #108 on: 2026-04-25, 22:36:57 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 813 Believing in something false doesn't make it true.	Quote from: Verpies on 2026-04-25, 22:27:48 This would mean that the Left/Right coils are never open-circuited but they are shunted by the inductors comprising the armature. Yes that is correct. So why does that work so much better than just gradually feeding one coil and then the other? --------------------------- Just because it is on YouTube does not make it real.

Verpies	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #109 on: 2026-04-25, 23:11:55 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Inductors are not resistors. They store energy in the form of magnetic field. In ideal case - losslessly.

Lasco

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #110 on: 2026-04-26, 08:08:17 »

Newbie

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If we don’t try, we’ll never know.

Well… I think I’ve just successfully invented a new type of smoke generator 😄

Spent days carefully wiring the commutator, shaping resistors, tuning everything like a proper scientist…
Flip the switch → beautiful theory instantly converted into expensive smoke.

At first I thought:
“Wow, strong magnetic field!”
Then:
“Hmm… interesting smell…”
Then:
“Oh. That’s not flux… that’s my resistors leaving the chat.”

Turns out:
- Tiny resistors = great heaters 🔥
- Long wires = free inductors ⚡
- Copper brushes = arc welder mode enabled ⚡⚡
- Carbon brushes = work beautifully… until they turn your commutator into a coal mine 🪨

Best part?
My previous “mysterious success” was actually just a humble vacuum cleaner brush casually acting as a 5Ω ballast resistor + arc suppressor + waveform conditioner…
Who needs engineering when you have accidental genius?

Current status:
- Commutator: survived (mostly)
- Resistors: sacrificed heroically
- Confidence: slightly toasted
- Knowledge gained: priceless

Next step: rebuild, simplify, and try not to invent any more smoke machines.

If anyone needs advice on how to turn electrical energy into smoke with high efficiency — I’m now qualified 😄

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Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.

Lasco	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #111 on: 2026-04-26, 09:20:48 »
Newbie Posts: 14 If we don’t try, we’ll never know.	Perhaps some pictures of my set up Clemente Figuera revisited IMG_9616.jpeg (186.35 kB, 575x640 - viewed 136 times.) Clemente Figuera revisited IMG_9593.jpeg (158.36 kB, 675x607 - viewed 128 times.) --------------------------- Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.

Verpies

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #112 on: 2026-04-26, 10:15:14 »

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Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-26, 08:08:17

Flip the switch → beautiful theory instantly converted into expensive smoke.

At what current ? Flowing where ?

Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-26, 08:08:17

- Tiny resistors = great heaters 🔥

I thought you were using huge wirewound resistors.

Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-26, 08:08:17

- Long wires = free inductors ⚡

An often underappreciated phenomenon.
Wirewound resistors are inductors, too ...and their improper construction exacerbates their inductance.

This becomes more significant as the frequency climbs ...not only the intended switching frequency.

Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-26, 08:08:17

My previous “mysterious success” was actually just a humble vacuum cleaner brush casually acting as a 5Ω ballast resistor + arc suppressor + waveform conditioner…

What made you think it was a “success” ?

Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-26, 08:08:17

If anyone needs advice on how to turn electrical energy into smoke with high efficiency — I’m now qualified 😄

Perhaps some automotive fuses are in order. Sized slightly weaker than the components which have been damaged.

Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-26, 09:20:48

Perhaps some pictures of my set up

I noticed in your photo that your coils are in coaxial configuration, which is an indicator that you believe a reciprocating bucking field can induce more energy in the middle winding than it takes to create such field ...and that all transformer laws do not apply to such coil arrangement.

Also, does your oscilloscope display current or voltage waveforms in the photo? At what probe positions ?

Lasco

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #113 on: 2026-04-26, 15:10:45 »

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If we don’t try, we’ll never know.

Hi Verpies,

Thank you for the question — this capture shows both voltage and current behaviour.

Signals in this image:

Blue trace (CH4): voltage across the shunt resistor
→ this represents primary current (scaled from shunt voltage)
Yellow trace (CH2): voltage across one of the primary coils
→ measured directly at the coil terminals
Cyan trace (CH1): voltage across the opposing primary coil

Interpretation:

The yellow and cyan traces show the alternating excitation of the two primary coils.
The blue trace shows the corresponding current response, including spikes during commutation.
The spikes on the current trace coincide with switching events and are likely due to inductive transients.

Measurement method:

Current is measured via a shunt (20 A / 100 mV type) placed in series with the supply return.
Voltage probes are connected directly across coil terminals.
All channels share the same reference (scope ground).

I am currently working on improving the measurement setup (shorter leads, better grounding) to reduce noise and capture the transients more accurately.

If you see a better way to capture current during these switching events, I would appreciate your suggestion.

Regards,
Lasco

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Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.

Verpies

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #114 on: 2026-04-26, 21:11:38 »

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Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-26, 15:10:45

Current is measured via a shunt (20 A / 100 mV type) placed in series with the supply return.

Since inductors are current devices, I'd like to see 2 currents flowing in these Left/Right coils as functions of time - one trace for each coil's current measured with two separate shunts ...and these shunts must be non-inductive !
Voltage interests me only across the power supply and across the middle coil.

Lasco

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #115 on: 2026-04-27, 01:20:02 »

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If we don’t try, we’ll never know.

Quote from: Verpies on 2026-04-26, 21:11:38

Since inductors are current devices, I'd like to see 2 currents flowing in these Left/Right coils as functions of time - one trace for each coil's current measured with two separate shunts ...and these shunts must be non-inductive !
Voltage interests me only across the power supply and across the middle coil.

Hi Verpies,

That is a good point — I agree that current is the more relevant quantity here.

My approach in this setup was not ideal from a measurement perspective. I was focusing mainly on voltage waveforms, and the current measurements were not captured in a sufficiently clear and calibrated way.

In the next iteration, I will improve the measurements and provide more meaningful data:

I will measure current in each primary coil separately, using Hantek current probes on each coil lead.
I will ensure proper scaling and calibration so the waveforms represent real current values.
I will also include supply voltage and middle (secondary) coil voltage as you suggested.
I will document probe positions clearly and share scope captures.

I understand the importance of observing how the two primary currents evolve over time, especially during commutation, and I will focus on capturing that accurately.

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Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.

chief kolbacict	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #116 on: 2026-04-27, 08:30:24 »
Sr. Member Posts: 436	Quote from: Verpies on 2026-04-25, 17:35:59 Increasing the number of contacts/commutators to 8 will not change the effect. Yes, perhaps so.

panyuming	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #117 on: 2026-04-27, 23:25:44 »
Newbie Posts: 45	Hi！Allcanadian， Thanks for sharing! I still need to study this keyword first. Clemente Figuera revisited 1777326812677.jpg (61.15 kB, 767x636 - viewed 125 times.)

Verpies	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #118 on: 2026-04-27, 23:28:02 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: panyuming on 2026-04-27, 23:25:44 I still need to study this keyword first. That is why I wrote this.

Lasco

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #119 on: 2026-04-29, 11:26:33 »

Newbie

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If we don’t try, we’ll never know.

Hi,

this capture shows the present behaviour of the system with both primary coils and the secondary observed simultaneously. The yellow trace is the voltage across one primary coil and the cyan trace is the voltage across the opposing primary. Both are being driven by the commutator and you can clearly see the alternating excitation between them. The waveforms are no longer purely stepped, there is a noticeable rounding which indicates that inductance is now influencing the current flow rather than the system behaving as a simple resistive load.

The blue trace is the secondary output. It is relatively smooth compared to the primary switching waveform, which confirms that induction is taking place, however the amplitude is still quite low at this stage. There are visible disturbances in the waveform that line up with the commutation points, showing that switching transients are still present and affecting the system.

Overall this looks like a transition from a chaotic spike-dominated regime into a more controlled behaviour where timing and interaction between the two primaries starts to matter. It is not yet at the condition observed in the previous larger setup, but it is moving in that direction.

Clemente Figuera revisited

scope.jpg (187.52 kB, 500x666 - viewed 19 times.)

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Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.

Verpies

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #120 on: 2026-04-29, 12:16:12 »

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Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-29, 11:26:33

The yellow trace is the voltage across one primary coil and the cyan trace is the voltage across the opposing primary.

Voltage across coils is not very informative, i.e.: it contains no information about the timing of magnetic flux that this coil generates.

Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-29, 11:26:33

The waveforms are no longer purely stepped, there is a noticeable rounding which indicates that inductance is now influencing the current flow rather than the system behaving as a simple resistive load.

I agree.
You could illustrate this difference by posting two scopeshots of two current waveforms while the commutator is loaded by a simple resistive load vs. the inductive load.

Quote from: Lasco on 2026-04-29, 11:26:33

The blue trace is the secondary output.

A voltage waveform of an open coil carries the information about the rate of change of magnetic flux that threads it ...so it is useful.

Of course, the inter-turn and inter-layer capacitance perturb these measurements. It gets worse when we cannot account for it because we do not even know what that capacitance is.
This capacitance can be measured directly when the coil is wound like in Diag.3 or Diag.4 and afterwards reconnected for inductive operation as in Diag.1

Lasco

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #121 on: 2026-05-03, 11:45:41 »

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If we don’t try, we’ll never know.

Lasco Online
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Hi friends
I would like to share my work progress on Clemente Figuera Electrical Generator
There is a little progress with driving of primaries but still as single triplet.
Had to wind many different coils with different wire diameter and number of turns
Each coil differently effected the circuit . Each time circuit needed to be adjusted and modified accordingly to new working regimes. Just to go to the point big rheostats did not pay off due messy wiring and large resistance. What help was to use small resistors soldered directly on the commutator.

I have tried in secondary thin monofilament coil from wireless charging unit and I have managed to get 0.95mV from 34 turns in magnetic field of the primary coils. Some 0.028mV per turn if this formula works with 300 turns I should be able to get 8.3V . It will be interesting to subject this voltage to different types of load to see some interesting possibilities. Of course next step is to investigate if gap has detrimental effects on voltage and if yes to find compromise From preliminary test results it may be usable up to 8 mm. Will see…..

Now I have wound new secondary coil with 300 turns 70mm OD and 4. 4 mm thick
It is in epoxy therefore must wait till tomorrow for test ……. How annoying!!!

Some progress, perhaps tiny Voltage but hoping for more.

https://youtu.be/2qWLD6GBo8Q?si=Zc6D2mQCbbp2hVQd

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Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.

Lasco

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #122 on: 2026-05-14, 09:35:46 »

Newbie

Posts: 14
If we don’t try, we’ll never know.

hi all
After years of practical experiments, I no longer see the Figuera device as a simple transformer or just two electromagnets varying intensity. The behaviour is much closer to a resonant commutator flux redistribution generator, where magnetic continuity, inductive energy transfer during commutation, capacitor interaction, and timing of magnetic flux transfer all play major roles. The system appears to operate through controlled redistribution of magnetic energy rather than repeated creation and collapse of isolated fields.

Resonance itself now appears manageable; the more important challenge is how to efficiently harvest and transfer the energy from the secondary coils under load.

There is also still a lot of work required on the secondary system itself, particularly finding the correct coil dimensions, core material, and winding configuration to maximize usable output from the magnetic excitation system.

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Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.

Verpies	Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #123 on: 2026-05-14, 10:39:05 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: Lasco on 2026-05-14, 09:35:46 The system appears to operate through controlled redistribution of magnetic energy rather than repeated creation and collapse of isolated fields. Have you considered the Lorentz force as the magnetic flux is moved (redistributed) without being collapsed and recreated and without changing its collective magnitude ? A + B = const

Lasco

Re: Clemente Figuera revisited « Reply #124 on: 2026-05-14, 22:54:29 »

Newbie

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If we don’t try, we’ll never know.

Hi Verpies

Yes, I have considered that possibility. My current experiments suggest that the important part may not be repeated full collapse and recreation of magnetic fields, but rather controlled redistribution and transfer of magnetic energy within the magnetic circuit. In practice the total magnetic energy may remain partially continuous while the flux density and magnetic path through the secondary region are changing rapidly enough to induce output. The challenge then becomes achieving strong dB/dt and efficient energy transfer during commutation while minimizing destructive losses in the switching process.

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Practical experimenter interested in electromagnetic systems and induction, focusing on measurement, repeatability, and careful evaluation of historical concepts.