Oil Furnace Ran On Water In 1950

Started by russwr, 2023.09.05, 16:30:34

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russwr

2023.09.05, 16:30:34
Have you heard about the used oil furnace from 1950's that ran on water? Patent was issued to army service men in Texas THAT SAID, adding the initial water line to T fitting for used oil burner on used jeep engine oil, to get 50% increase in efficiency. That was NOT, what was written in their application for Patent. SS coil tubing in brick highly insulated firepot of oil burner hooked to input common water line. Oil furnace started. Temperature gauge monitored for temp up to 1500 degrees F. Then valve opened so as superheated ONLY steam is allowed in T fitting with oil to tiny nozzle. Nice burn flame runs constant. Then oil line was quickly shut off. Furnace still runs. Shock wave from 90 lbs pressure to zero AMBIENT in fire-pot forms Hydrogen and Oxygen torch flame that also heats heat ex changer. Normally water molecules separate at about 3000-6000 degrees which is too much energy. The vibration shock wave allows for disassociation at lower temperature. Electric motor with dual shafts ran 2 oil pumps at 90lbs. If input water shut off, and cooled down, then furnace has to be restarted on oil. A much smaller unit in crate was shown to a US senator in Washington building underground parking , as an open trunk display. This was somewhat similar to the propane operated camping stove with circular pores, vertical round fire brick insulated chimney, and interior SS tubing of initial water. When steam introduced to T fitting, the fuel used was shut down leaving burning circular torch flames. It probably used minerals free distilled water so as nozzle would not clog. (US Patent office not allow for over unity for public.- Free Energy is eliminated in issued US Patents. US- 1958, 2,863,499.
The water furnace did not have water or steam mixed with fuel oil. The heat ex-changer in brick highly insulated fire pot , was brought up to =/> 1500 degrees F. Oil removed when steam valve was opened. This was a new science phenomena when the shock wave broke up the H20 molecule at the unusual lowered temperature. Read paragraph again. The US Patent issued was NOT what was asked for in the complete application manuscript in 1950. Patent said steam mixed with fuel oil.

Smudge

#1
2023.09.06, 13:45:41
Quote from: russwr on 2023.09.05, 16:30:34
The US Patent issued was NOT what was asked for in the complete application manuscript in 1950. Patent said steam mixed with fuel oil.
How do we get sight of the original application manuscript?  The patent mentions application number 291691 but the USPTO classification system requires two more numbers preceding that 6 digit number.


Smudge

russwr

#3
2023.09.06, 21:55:29 Last Edit: 2023.09.07, 00:01:26 by russwr
 The US Patent issued was a 7 digit number only, For the so called Jackson  water burner -as it was called.  2,863,499  Paper does not include any over unity data , or self running mode, or mention of free fuel .  They don't allow that for the public.  The Patent examiners reworded the tech data to suit them, for a 50% increase in efficiency of fuel oil with added steam, and decreasing size of pin point oil spray nozzle. You would also have to figure out how to get free quantities of mineral free distilled water. (non clogging of heat exchanger and small orifices) Waste heat to distill plain water, solar energy with Fresnel lens concentrater, or or obtain the waste water from commercial refrigeration systems building that runs distilled water drippings line down the drain.     

Grumage

#4
2023.09.07, 15:01:25
I wish I had more time to look at this.

The problem of distilled water is easily solved by having a second SS coil in the heat exchanger. Plain water, turning into steam and then condensed would provide the fuel. In the 1950's most automotive engines were running on straight oils, average viscosity of SAE 30.

1500 degrees Fahrenheit is approximately 815 degrees Celsius. Most modern Diesel engines can develop around 500 degrees Celsius during the compression stroke. I'm wondering if by reducing the compression space we could get a similar phenomenon going on within a reciprocating engine?

Can you " Diesel " a water droplet? Too many questions.... :D

Cheers Grum.
Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)

Chet K

#5
2023.09.07, 17:24:12
Playing with a drop
Or tiny samples ... mech better idea for testing
Sam leach claim for running ICE on water
Below
Johan told us years ago
Lithium cuts water thermolysis temperature in half
Maybe lithium nitrate
Does some Stoichiometry beyond that ?

Would seem it would have to ?( Sam Leach claim at 500 psi

MerLynn

#6
2023.09.10, 01:45:49
ONE of the 'secrets' to water as fuel in an ICE is the same as the 'secret' to why one doesnt add water from a fire extinguisher to an OIL fire.

Water easily 'burns' under the 'right' frequency. ( the opposite and equal effect we already know)

Any one here actually applied water to an oil or petroleum (plastics based) fire? I have on several occasions. If the water is 'sprayed' onto an oil fire the 'mist' or droplets will actually 'explode' before it even comes near the 'fire'.

You see if you want to understand the secrets of the Universe, you gotta think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration. This is why some water injectors in an ICE work quite well.

Gas or petrol provides the 'frequency' for the 'oxygen' to combust or release its magnetic energy (only 2 forces in the universe says Russell, Expansion and Compression) to expand the Nitrogen in the atmosphere to drive the piston down. Once the process is 'started' then water can replace the fuel but only up to a certain %

some more on Thermodynamics.
At low compression pressures, petrol will release the magnetic energy of 'oxygen;.
at 20:1 compression the Air and fuel mixture 'spontaneously' combusts. Much like the MAUI fires of DEWS. No spark needed in a diesel motor as the Compression takes the WIND to the next 'phase' or FIRE.
At 27:1 and above compression rates, NO FUEL is NEEDED as the Wind is spontaneously combusted or the 'oxygen' releases its (South pole positive) heat energy and expands the nitrogen in the air without a 'catalyst' which is all the 'hydrocarbons' are in real scientific terms. To call them a "fuel" will keep you ignorant of the real science of Energy, frequency and vibrations.

Catalysts only provide FREQUENCY to facilitate or modify6 a 'reaction'. 30:1 compression is like a CATALYST for energy conversion.

this forums addiction to false energy theories and false physics is whats keeping any success or understandings of Energy generation techniques from being REDISCOVERED.

Grumage

#7
2023.09.10, 12:37:36
Quote from: MerLynn on 2023.09.10, 01:45:49
some more on Thermodynamics.
At low compression pressures, petrol will release the magnetic energy of 'oxygen;.
at 20:1 compression the Air and fuel mixture 'spontaneously' combusts. Much like the MAUI fires of DEWS. No spark needed in a diesel motor as the Compression takes the WIND to the next 'phase' or FIRE.
At 27:1 and above compression rates, NO FUEL is NEEDED as the Wind is spontaneously combusted or the 'oxygen' releases its (South pole positive) heat energy and expands the nitrogen in the air without a 'catalyst' which is all the 'hydrocarbons' are in real scientific terms. To call them a "fuel" will keep you ignorant of the real science of Energy, frequency and vibrations.

Catalysts only provide FREQUENCY to facilitate or modify6 a 'reaction'. 30:1 compression is like a CATALYST for energy conversion.

Dear MerLynn.

With the greatest of respect, surely after 150 years development of the ICE, the phenomenon you describe would have been exploited ? I have been involved with the preservation of vintage machinery all my adult life, most of which included research into the inventions and patents. I have never come across a single mention of such a phenomena.

Cheers Graham.
Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)

Classic

#8
2023.09.10, 13:11:08
Petrol engines with carburettor can run on water 100% pretty easy, precisely on water vapours where you need to attach a simple device that will drop water on exhaust when engine has reached normal working temperature than just drive the water vapour to the carburettor intake and cut off petrol.

This is already a patent in Romania from 1980-1990 I think and the inventor has shown an old Dacia 1300 with petrol engine driving on water vapours on the road ... but nobody wanted to use.

Need to mention that this invention was mostly driven by restricted access to fuel for personal usage due to gov wanting to use everything for export to pay off all national debts which they did at the cost detrimental to population. Romania is the only country in the world that has ever paid all national debts and was on +.

But honestly, ice are the most inefficient for transport mean and huge source of pollution.

The only hope is bigoilco will become more greedy and will push people to find real solutions

Grumage

#9
2023.09.10, 13:56:18
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.10, 13:11:08
Petrol engines with carburettor can run on water 100% pretty easy, precisely on water vapours where you need to attach a simple device that will drop water on exhaust when engine has reached normal working temperature than just drive the water vapour to the carburettor intake and cut off petrol.

This is already a patent in Romania from 1980-1990 I think and the inventor has shown an old Dacia 1300 with petrol engine driving on water vapours on the road ... but nobody wanted to use.

Need to mention that this invention was mostly driven by restricted access to fuel for personal usage due to gov wanting to use everything for export to pay off all national debts which they did at the cost detrimental to population. Romania is the only country in the world that has ever paid all national debts and was on +.

But honestly, ice are the most inefficient for transport mean and huge source of pollution.

The only hope is bigoilco will become more greedy and will push people to find real solutions

A little more information would be useful Mr Classic. Patent number etc.

Surely an ICE that runs entirely on water, no matter how inefficiently would be a great step forward technologically? Zero pollution!
Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)

Classic

#10
2023.09.10, 16:44:56
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.10, 13:56:18
A little more information would be useful Mr Classic. Patent number etc.

Surely an ICE that runs entirely on water, no matter how inefficiently would be a great step forward technologically? Zero pollution!

Searching for a patent in Romania is like trying to find a needle in a haystack ... it was on their national TV station 30 years ago.
And than was little concern for someone trying to steal or replicate ... it was like 30 minutes documentary where the inventor himself has described how it work and what modifications needed to make that ancient engine to work on water vapours were a some kind of Bernoulli effect was employed to release a drop of water or kind of small amount on exhaust pipe which was hot, than just drive the vapours to carburettor intake ... and I remember that he said that very large amount of water is used for about 50 km travel ... probably much of it being wasted. Certainly wouldn't work on injection, at least not the setup he described at that time ... Most likely the patent or brevet for innovation/invention is already expired and the inventor passed away in meantime.

www.osim.ro ... you can try to ask them if you wish.
I can understand their secrecy about any patents after I learned that all paper work and materials and devices of Henri Coanda have been "exported" in USA few years ago and nobody can say where they can be seen if ever again.

I'm still surprised that we are trying to look at 150-50 years old inventions at a time when we can have a shuttle to the Moon, and most of people struggle to understand simple principles that were explained almost to detail very long time ago.

I'm not sure if this is brainwash or conspiracy or simply mankind experiencing a huge involution.

I am working on a little device to power a washing machine for full heavy cycle from few aa rechargeable batteries using inventions and tech that are +100 years old and if I am successful I wonder the heck are doing those people at NASA, MIT CERN or whatever else where they announce 2-3 breakthrough every year but I can't see anything on the market or any improvement in mankind lifestyle, but just being sold fake food and fake products and nobody is made jobless being an scientist or supervisor/funding provider.

Chet K

#11
2023.09.10, 17:09:19
Classic
Quote
Petrol engines with carburettor can run on water 100% pretty easy
End quote
Please teach us .

Classic

#12
2023.09.10, 21:18:36
Quote from: Chet K on 2023.09.10, 17:09:19
Classic
Quote
Petrol engines with carburettor can run on water 100% pretty easy
End quote
Please teach us .
I think that I already described how it work, but I can try again.

From all I can remember the engine start on petrol and is run until reach normal working temperature I think is around 70-90 degree Celsius, than from a pipe or tank small amount of water is released on heated surface which is in contact with exhaust pipe right at the exist from combustion chamber were maximum temperature is reached to meet the right condition for water to enter in gaseous form as vapours. Transformation of water needs to happen in an enclosed space were a 1 way valve will allow some air intake to be absorbed in combustion chamber with vapours of water.
I don't have the detail of how much water need to be droped on hot surface but I can imagine it would be few drops at a time, were water vapours needs to be ready for every 3rd time when mixture of air and fuel is introduced before valve close ready for compression and explosion, as there is 4 times action in each combustion chamber for 1 cycle.

So, after water circuit is open and vapours start, petrol is cut off and a fine mixture of air and water vapours is delivered to combustion chamber.

In that type of engine (basically is a Renault 12) is an easy access to cam axle that commands valve opening and close need to be made an adapter to mechanically command water drop at the right time, but I guess this stage can be easily done by electronic means without any other mechanical modification.

Obviously a water tank of +50 litres need to be installed on the car, the inventor choose to install it in luggage compartment and used hoses to connect.

Things to consider: large scale deposit is formed from heated water were vapours form and also fast degradation if a tin can is used. Or it can be an open system where we have a constant supply of water on hot surface without the risk of over pressure from steam and the car may look like is running on steam ... many were laughing at the inventor because of that.

Anyway I need to mention that output power wasn't significant affected and these old engines weren't anywhere as performant as nowadays ... i think I they used to have less than half of what can be delivered today by an 1.3 litres German petrol engine (VW, Audi, Mercedes, BMW).

Also it was impossible to use water as fuel during winter as everything was frozen and tank+pipes/hoses cracked at -10 constant outside temperature.

I hope it help to understand as I'm not happy to see prolonged use of internal combustion engines and I'm not in favour of use them even as a part in a power generation system even it is less polluting.

Chet K

#13
2023.09.10, 21:24:49
Quote from: Chet K on 2023.09.10, 17:09:19
Classic
Quote
Petrol engines with carburettor can run on water 100% pretty easy
End quote
Please teach us .

I apologize
I am not familiar with persons "here" who are 100% certain
And have never done their own work to verify?
Or even write something which makes any sense to those who know
Just how hard this must be ..

Not a good thing to write here (" 100% pretty easy
It places all your "claims" in a completely different perspective!

( btw ,I answered your confusion on your battery topic)


MerLynn

#14
2023.09.10, 23:40:33
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.10, 12:37:36
With the greatest of respect, surely after 150 years development of the ICE, the phenomenon you describe would have been exploited ? I have been involved with the preservation of vintage machinery all my adult life, most of which included research into the inventions and patents. I have never come across a single mention of such a phenomena.

Grumage
With great respect

I am impressed that you have learned all there is to know about ICE development and operational parameters regarding Thermodynamics.

It should be clear by now that 'your' science and 'my' science are diametrically opposed. My science says yours is fake and false and out right lies in some of its theoretical hypotheses. If this point escapes your view, then your position is honestly come by. I particularity take exception to the Atomic Theory of marbles of varying charges constituting the atomic structure with 'electrons' in particular being the sole source of energy in the universe. If 'science isnt challenging or questioning everything like it is fundamentally designed to do, then falsities will emerge according to the Powers that be to CONTROL the scientific community and thus INVENTIONS. If this isnt evident in a world where they did a slow train wreck Mass Genocide by VAXX because they really care about you, then I recommend you get boosted as you are the carbon they want to eliminate. All jokes aside, it would be naive to think all that is known is available for study. My writings just on this site will not convince anyone of anything. The indoctrination is too strong. I speak from experience and this knowledge can only be gained by experimentation. We could start by adding more electrodes in the high school electrolysis experiment to begin this dismantling of indoctrinated lies.

Petrol engines cannot maintain 'integrity' at too high a compression ratio and REQUIRE a spark to make that frequency change to release energy going into the next Phase of energy manifestation. (fire)

The MERE FACT that at 20:1 compression spontaneously combusts Diesel without a 'spark' is the Clue that this may be the 'first' of such Frequency changes of the thermodynamics of Air or WIND. Real science questions everything and doesnt make excuses for lack of historical documentation.

Im not here to prove anything but to provide info on what I have learned regarding Energy, Frequency and Vibration in a Non Physical Phenomena universe. It is important you do question what I say.  There are no stupid questions, only dumb answers.

This Level Up of Phases of Energy or the 4 Elemental States of Matter can be likened to breaking the Sound Barrier. It is speculated one cant break the Light Speed Barrier. You may find in your NASA Lies Files that there is another Level Up at 8000 mph as the Second "sound Barrier" that Accelerating objects are subjected to.

All is not as it seems in a world of Illusions. Do not believe what I say but go out and prove it to yourself than you will believe.

Grumage

#15
2023.09.11, 11:50:57
Dear MerLynn.

You flatter me, but I was referring more to the history and development of the ICE and not the thermodynamics area.

The point I was making is that in a time when communication was much slower than it is today an engine running on water only surely would have been reported in the press of the time?

Putting that aside, it is my intention to put together a test rig and " see for myself " what will happen when we try out much higher compression ratios than that used currently in an ICE. I will be placing my observations here.... Your observations and or advice would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4423.0

Cheers Graham.

Attached is a photo taken at the engine museum that I am affiliated with showing some of the scale models that I have made over the last 40 years or so. My son Mathew posing in the background....

Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
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