What is wrong with science today

[TinMan]

Still so badly wrong how are you people working on FE with such narrow vision and grasp on reality. You cannot cheat the universe with your manmade schemes and "plans".

You must live on another planet.
How exactly are you cheating the universe by using what it gives freely?

I am often confused as to how some people think.
AC is correct in everything he said.


Brad

[TinMan]

Finally some reason in here. Thank you 

I believe ALL ideas should be open source and their applications left up to anyone willing to APPLY them in the world.

And what do you think would happen to some poor guys invention once some one with wealth and power get hold of it.
They would patent the design under some other design description, and shelve it.
Then no one could mass produce it.
Do you really think the governments and the elites are going to let some free energy device into the world, and make the fossil fuel industry, the renewables industry-solar, wind, etc, just become obsolete?
I bet it would be made illegal, due to some national/global security bullshit.

Something like this takes careful planning, and being involved with powerful people who want this to happen.


Brad

[broli]

And what do you think would happen to some poor guys invention once some one with wealth and power get hold of it.
They would patent the design under some other design description, and shelve it.
Then no one could mass produce it.
Do you really think the governments and the elites are going to let some free energy device into the world, and make the fossil fuel industry, the renewables industry-solar, wind, etc, just become obsolete?
I bet it would be made illegal, due to some national/global security bullshit.

Something like this takes careful planning, and being involved with powerful people who want this to happen.


Brad

Why do you people keep dragging me out of my cave, I just want to stay in it in peace and spread useful ideas. These "speeches" are mentally draining.

I dont want to give another speech on the nature of open source, the legal protection that comes with it and all the case laws in favor of it. you can easily prove your idea came before the application of the patent in court, because when its released in the wild on the internet it will stay online forever. Many BIG corporations have been successfully sued before over using open source ideas in their closed source applications and in fact many will avoid such risks by avoiding open source in general (ask ChatGPT). Then no matter how "powerful" the power may be, you will hold the legal upperhand by proving the idea was open sourced before the application of any patent. And trust me there is an army of good spirited young hungry lawyers that are willing to jump in the fire with you to protect such cases pro bono free of charge. As good will always trumps bad intent or greed. Dont limit yourself to constrained thinking and trust the universe and the universe will provide.

However I agree with you on planning and pace, having structure, a good approach and most importantly a good set of people around you is important in order to successfully spread such idea as far and wide as you possibly can not out of self interest or intellectual "property" more so to battle the wave of resistance and friction that will be coming your way after such information enters the real world. No single person can handle such burden, but a good spirited team there to lighten that burden expecting nothing in return helps a lot.  After that no amount of science, theory, money or law can deny or suppress a working machine that even a child can build at home if you did things right and well intentioned free of your own ego.

The biggest fear of the FE tinkerer seems not whether or not his idea will work but whether or not he can make money out of it. As the parent of such ideas your only purpose is to protect and nurture your child when its still young but to let go when its mature so it can freely wonder and explore the world FREE of constraints, "contracts" or "laws".

My suggestion is:

• Come up with an idea so simple and cheap even a child can build
• Validate the sh*t out of it
• Involve few trustworthy people with the right mindset and proven reputation, and avoid people with "power"
• Send a few prototypes out
• Perpare a "theory" or paper on how or why your idea works for the academic world
• Publish your theory and launch a media campaign using social media platforms that made ideas go viral at the press of a button: YouTube, Rumble, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter... (for once these abomination will be useful). Countless tinkerer and "science" youtubers that would love to build such a machine have millions of followers that can amplify your idea greatly and inspire a whole new generation of young explorers that will take and improve your idea and come up with so many different and new things. THIS is the true priceless joy of sharing ideas openly and freely, seeing the wonderous things and derivations other will come up with.

After that brace yourself for the ride of your life. Preferably even disappear out of sight and become part of the noise or the pleb that is just building the machine locally and making an honorable living for yourself so you can survive instead of drown in earthly pleasures.

Bitcoin became the most powerful crypto currency in the world not because of IP protection or investors, but because it was a liberating idea shared with the whole world at the right time in history. Right now we are facing the same "right time" moment as the world and its powers are shifting greatly.

I also find it funny how the whole system is on the verge of a complete collapse and yet here we are discussing how we can gain a seat in it. Widen your mind and imagine a better and different future for yourself and loved ones rather than limit yourself by imagining how you can gain a seat in a broken system that is about to collapse.

Its not going to be easy and you will only have one shot at it so do everything in your might to not mess it up.

Timing is key but you cannot wait too long either for obvious reasons.

[Havercake]

Open source is the way around this. The Internet is built on it and people profit from it. Linus Thorvald he came up with Linux is not a poor man.

I use Linux all the time - and love it.  But don't forget that Linus wrote the original kernal as a "free/libre" alternative to Minix - and Minix was a microcomputer implementation of mini & mainframe Unix systems.  So the equivalent commercial OSs came first.  The Linux Foundation, however, will still sue you if you don't follow the "free/libre" licensing rules.

But yes, a technology only really "takes off" after people can copy it without legal encumbrance. Patents on the IC engine ran out over a century ago, but plenty of companies still make money selling engines.

Actually, George is a sincere and open source kind of guy - although possibly a little naive.  He's been working in the field for over 40 years, has written for (and even guest edited) Infinite Energy magazine, and would be happy just to see people using any OU technology he comes up with or uncovers.  We all build on the discoveries and developments of the past - and George would be the first to acknowledge that.  It's the financiers that take a different view.

I remember reading a quote from one electrochemist researcher, from the early days of 'cold fusion', who divided all the "investors, entrepreneurs, & businessmen", that he ever had contact with, into two categories:
(a) Crooks
(b) Lesser Crooks

But as AC says, if you need money to develop your ideas, and you don't have lots of money in the bank, your options can be quite limited. Unlike software, that can be multiplied infinitely and at little cost, hardware needs physical resources.

[TinMan]

author=broli link=topic=4629.msg111320#msg111320 date=1712219763

The biggest fear of the FE tinkerer seems not whether or not his idea will work but whether or not he can make money out of it.

Or a little money and backing, so as they can be built in house for those that don't have the means to build their own.
Shipped at cost--non profit.

My suggestion is:

• Come up with an idea so simple and cheap even a child can build
• Validate the sh*t out of it
• Involve few trustworthy people with the right mindset and proven reputation, and avoid people with "power"
• Send a few prototypes out
• Build a "theory" on how or why your idea works
• Publish your theory and launch a media campaign using social media platforms that made ideas go viral at the press of a button: YouTube, Rumble, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter... (for once these abomination will be useful). Countless tinkerer and "science" youtubers that would love to build such a machine have millions of followers that can amplify your idea greatly

Agree with that, except it would have to be a pretty crafty child 

if you did things right and well intentioned free of your own ego.

Anyone who invents such a device, deserves some self pride i would think.


Brad

[/list]

[broli]

Agree with that, except it would have to be a pretty crafty child 

Never underestimate the next generation as they will surprise you in ways you could never imagine. They are the true geniuses that will make us look like fools and the ones we will entrust with our rusty ideas to take them beyond our limited old slow brains.

Anyone who invents such a device, deserves some self pride i would think.

I hope you have a well written speech prepared when you receive that glorious "Nobel" price. On the other hand you could always use such platform to clown the premise of such ridiculous pride stroking event and give the shiny golden medal to the first homeless person you pass

Oh snap, now my own ego is raising, time to beat it down into submission.

[TinMan]

Oh snap, now my own ego is raising, time to beat it down into submission.

Never underestimate the next generation as they will surprise you in ways you could never imagine. They are the true geniuses that will make us look like fools and the ones we will entrust with our rusty ideas to take them beyond our limited old slow brains.

I have seen some examples of the generation after me, and the one after them, and i hold little hope.
Being able to use an iphone, and play computer games, is hardly genius to me. Half of them don't know if they man, woman, or sheep.

I hope you have a well written speech prepared when you receive that glorious "Nobel" price. On the other hand you could always use such platform to clown the premise of such ridiculous pride stroking event and give the shiny golden medal to the first homeless person you pass

There will be nothing like that.
I'm not interested one bit in any public fame.
I just want to be left alone, building in my workshop, holidaying with the wife, and spending time with my family--thats what i'm interested in.


Brad

[broli]

I have seen some examples of the generation after me, and the one after them, and i hold little hope.
Being able to use an iphone, and play computer games, is hardly genius to me. Half of them don't know if they man, woman, or sheep.

iPhones and most of today technology was not brought by the next generation into the world but by the careless previous ones that put profit over morals and human value. Dont blame the ideas of greed and their applications that the previous generations brought and their disastrous effects on the current generation. Will you blame a baby for consuming mercury that you as an adult have carelessly put next to it? No you dont, you are to blame for that.

Its up to the previous generation to provide the best and safest environment for the next generation to thrive in and we have but ourselves to blame for not delivering such environment.

I am no longer pessimistic about the future of the next generation. The advantage of a young mind is that it can recover quicker from the damage that was imposed upon it unlike the old rigid stubborn mind that is better off out of sight and influence and preferably a few feet under ground to not waste any more space in the energetic space of ideas.

Our only job as "parents" is to provide the best possible environment, ideas and stories to leave behind for the next generation in hope that they dont repeat our stupid mistakes so they too can leave behind a better environment and future for their next generation.

If you can live with such ideals then at least you can die in peace knowing you did the best you could do to ensure a better future for your children and hopefully surrounded by them and the people that you love, rather than old, grumpy, alone and bitter regretting your life choices chasing "wealth" and influence, and all its disastrous consequences, your legacy will be one to warn the next generation of rather than to inspire.

I would rather choose to live modestly and humbly, "owning" very little and on my last hour be surrounded by my family with a smile of content on my face rather than despise the life I have lead and leave my family fighting over the wealth and estate I have amassed.

I know you are not this man but this is a warning and reminder for others who do think such ideas and goals are worth chasing.

[TinMan]

iPhones and most of today technology was not brought by the next generation into the world but by the careless previous ones that put profit over morals and human value. Dont blame the ideas of greed and their applications that the previous generations brought and their disastrous effects on the current generation. Will you blame a baby for consuming mercury that you as an adult have carelessly put next to it? No you dont, you are to blame for that.

Its up to the previous generation to provide the best and safest environment for the next generation to thrive in and we have but ourselves to blame for not delivering such environment.

I am no longer pessimistic about the future of the next generation. The advantage of a young mind is that it can recover quicker from the damage that was imposed upon it unlike the old rigid stubborn mind that is better off out of sight and influence and preferably a few feet under ground to not waste any more space in the energetic space of ideas.

Our only job as "parents" is to provide the best possible environment, ideas and stories to leave behind for the next generation in hope that they dont repeat our stupid mistakes so they too can leave behind a better environment and future for their next generation.

If you can live with such ideals then at least you can die in peace knowing you did the best you could do to ensure a better future for your children and hopefully surrounded by them and the people that you love, rather than old, grumpy, alone and bitter regretting your life choices chasing "wealth" and influence, and all its disastrous consequences, your legacy will be one to warn the next generation of rather than to inspire.

I would rather choose to live modestly and humbly, "owning" very little and on my last hour be surrounded by my family with a smile of content on my face rather than despise the life I have lead and leave my family fighting over the wealth and estate I have amassed.

I know you are not this man but this is a warning and reminder for others who do think such ideas and goals are worth chasing.

Sorry, not going to agree.
The smartest members on this forum, are the older generation.
This generation has decided that there are some 86 genders-so far, and counting.
Us older generation live in a land of reality, where there are still just two genders-proven fact by science since the beginning of time.

You think this generation is going to change the world, start a revolution.
Hell, they can't even start a lawnmower.

No, change is going to come from the older generation, as this generation is still trying to work out which one of the 86 genders they are.


Brad

[broli]

Sorry, not going to agree.
The smartest members on this forum, are the older generation.
This generation has decided that there are some 86 genders-so far, and counting.
Us older generation live in a land of reality, where there are still just two genders-proven fact by science since the beginning of time.

You think this generation is going to change the world, start a revolution.
Hell, they can't even start a lawnmower.

No, change is going to come from the older generation, as this generation is still trying to work out which one of the 86 genders they are.


Brad

I choose not to enter such debates because only time will tell who is right and you must always respect your elders. But I urge you to strongly read the following thread:

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4616.msg111305;topicseen#msg111305

You will perhaps come to understand why the non-binary nature of the universe is maybe what makes up for everything we perceive. And perhaps you will also come to realize the true nature of your own brain child and become more tolerant to ideas you currently dont understand as often our children teach us more about ourselves than we teach them.

For me now its time to shut up and build because the mail man just delivered a machine from the future.

I wish you good luck and try to keep up wise old man because things will only accelerate from here   

[Allcanadian]

Broli

The biggest fear of the FE tinkerer seems not whether or not his idea will work but whether or not he can make money out of it.

This highlights a common misconception. Business and money are not inherently bad they just tend to attract bad people like flies to a manure pile.

This is why people tend to equate wealth with psychotic behavior and greed. There is a disproportionate number of psychotic people associated with business, money and politics. However wealth and money are not bad, they are inanimate concepts, only people who abuse them can be bad. So like many you seem to be confusing the actual nature of the problem.

Ironically, it's the rich and powerful who tend to spread the lie that being poor somehow makes you a better person, lol. They do this to control people and avoid competition. Cesspools like Russia, China and Iran virtually invented this concept. They promote the false belief that being uneducated, poor and powerless is somehow a virtue... obviously it's not.

AC

[TinMan]

A good video explaining one of the biggest problems with science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PsbgZvcjl8

[JimBoot]

Couldn't have said it better my self.


Brad

Having seen so many promising (in its most literal sense) tech get fanfare and then disappear over the years including one that I was a consultant on, I came to the conclusion long ago that a clean, cheap, safe, 'free' energy tech had to be open sourced for humanity and the planet. Being honest with myself though there has been at least one occasion when I thought I had "something" and I thought .. "maybe I COULD get a patent on this"... ! That is the modern mindset.
Being older and more experienced in business now, I know there are plenty of ways to make a comfortable living where I don't need to own a patent but I DO have to produce value for others. None of the ecommerce businesses I work with have patents but they do 100s of millions in sales.

If I developed say a working negative resistor tomorrow I would get a book written, an ecommerce store and a subscription service up  before I released to the public.  I would not have to manufacture, I would give the ideas away for free and sell other related materials.  If  I simply gave away the plan without having a strong support network in place first, it may benefit humanity but there would be a lot of mis/dis information in the short term.

Even with $ aside though, there is also the matter of feeding my ego. If I just gave this away how would the world know I was responsible for this gift to humanity? The answer for me would be, to get involved in educating the market. As we know nature abhors a vacuum and someone, possibly someone who I don't respect would fill that role. I'd hate that.

Remember Solar Freaking ROadways? It was not about the sausage they were selling it was the sizzle. Sure the tech was doomed but they got funded because of the marketing even though they were deluded not dishonest.  If my negative resistor worked, there would be plenty of noise to support it. That would be my approach and I'd help anyone else do it as well. I'm always talking with clients about JV ideas Others would try to shut it down.  When you threaten existing markets they will respond by attacking you and your claims.   By the way in an unrelated matter I hear vitamin D is pretty good.

[TinMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKiBlGDfRU8

[Allcanadian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKiBlGDfRU8

This theme is similar to my observations and the longer science, religion, politics, economics etc... go on the more corrupt and divisive it becomes.

For example, economics used to be based on the production and trade of goods and services. However today most economics revolves around betting some dupe is willing to pay more for something than we did which is in effect a grift or gambling. 30 years ago cryptocurrency which is a ponzi scheme would have been deemed illegal and everyone involved sent to prison. 30 years ago anyone who was a compulsive liar who assaults women would not be a politician they would be in prison. 30 years ago people had the common sense to keep there beliefs to themselves and privacy was a virtue most respected.

My current philosophy follows the picture below. As Nikola Tesla implied, if mankind is broken and going sideways anyways why not go for it?.

AC

[TinMan]

This theme is similar to my observations and the longer science, religion, politics, economics etc... go on the more corrupt and divisive it becomes.

For example, economics used to be based on the production and trade of goods and services. However today most economics revolves around betting some dupe is willing to pay more for something than we did which is in effect a grift or gambling. 30 years ago cryptocurrency which is a ponzi scheme would have been deemed illegal and everyone involved sent to prison. 30 years ago anyone who was a compulsive liar who assaults women would not be a politician they would be in prison. 30 years ago people had the common sense to keep there beliefs to themselves and privacy was a virtue most respected.

My current philosophy follows the picture below. As Nikola Tesla implied, if mankind is broken and going sideways anyways why not go for it?.

AC

Yes.
Those that think science is the same today as it was yesty year, simply do not understand what is actually going on.
Science today is not about discovering something different, it's about-how many papers can i get out, how much funding can i get, and how much fame can i create using word salad.

True science is about finding flaws in accepted academia, and discovering new ways things can be done.
It's not about carrying out a few experiments to confirm what we already know, it's about carrying out experiments and finding things we don't know.

Science does not dictate what is possible--mechanics and engineering does.
All mans scientific limitations can be overturned with engineering.


Brad

[F6FLT]

Educational levels have fallen in the West, and the young people who have graduated are now engineers, less competent than their elders.

In France, the Flamanville EPR nuclear power plant, scheduled for 2012, is still not up and running. There's always something going wrong, and it's postponed year after year.
Even the weather forecasts aren't as good today as they were 10 years ago!

If we keep smoking cannabis, which causes people to lose 3 to 5 IQ points, if we keep brandishing the precautionary principle, which doesn't encourage anyone to take risks in innovation, if we keep repeating the environmentalist message that man is the worst species, always polluting the earth, if we keep repeating that we work too much, why should young minds invest in science and technology? They're conditioned to vegetate, to celebrate themselves as saviors of the planet by sorting waste, and to contemplate nature like prehistoric man.

Unfortunately, Elon Musks are on the verge of extinction. We can be pessimistic, very pessimistic.

[F6FLT]

For the moment, technology only comes from academic science.

When FE enthusiasts get the hang of it, they'll be able to teach scientists a thing or two.

The thoughts of many of them on science and scientists are of a level I would describe as pathetic. They should read a bit more philosophy of science to understand what they're talking about and talk about it more intelligently.
It smacks of frustration, complexes and revenge, but as long as they want to eliminate everything that comes from science and that works, and replace it with illusions, they'll remain losers.

[broli]

For the moment, technology only comes from academic science.

Both Wilbur and Orville did well in school, although Orville was known for getting into mischief. Orville and Wilbur were the only members of the immediate Wright family who did not receive a high school diploma, attend college, or marry.

[broli]

I dont do what I do out of revenge, hate or malice, my main motivation is sharing ideas openly and freely so the people around me can have a better tomorrow where they also can live more openly and freely.

Although I must admit, my ego does show itself from time to time, but so far I manage to tame it. "Science" is not some holy matter that is immutable, it must follow the same laws of nature, namely evolution. If it does not evolve then it becomes useless and is discarded by nature itself. Evolution happens when new discoveries are made improving old ones or making them obsolete. I thank evolution for not still being a cave dweller not "science".

I look forward to the day where all sides can join the round table, "academics" and "crackpots", to freely and openly discuss ideas without ridicule or bad intention. Sure there will be extremes on both sides but why does it have to be binary, there is a whole spectrum in between too of people finding common ground with their ideas to test and validate them. And yes that even includes you, surrounding yourself with yes men only serves to build cults which I want nothing to do with.

If circles and lines can come together to create a whole universe so can we. Sorry I had to interject my crackpot theory 

[Allcanadian]

F6FLT

If we keep smoking cannabis, which causes people to lose 3 to 5 IQ points, if we keep brandishing the precautionary principle, which doesn't encourage anyone to take risks in innovation, if we keep repeating the environmentalist message that man is the worst species, always polluting the earth, if we keep repeating that we work too much, why should young minds invest in science and technology? They're conditioned to vegetate, to celebrate themselves as saviors of the planet by sorting waste, and to contemplate nature like prehistoric man.

For a moment I thought you were talking about the Vietnam War era from the 50's to 70's. Ever watch a documentary on that era?, it seems most were wasted or drunk, one big party like Woodstock, laying around doing nothing, hair down to there waist, protesting everything and warning everyone about polluting mother Earth. So it's more than a little hypocritical that the boomers are now judging the younger generation.

Unfortunately, Elon Musks are on the verge of extinction. We can be pessimistic, very pessimistic.

You mean rich kids who got millions from daddy, overworked and underpaid people smarter than they could ever be, milked the taxpayer subsidy train and creating multiple insolvent companies. Were now seeing many of his supposed companies have grossly overinflated evaluations and are not worth 1/10 what Musk claims. Elon even said he takes after Edison, 99% hot air and 1% invention.

Apparently Elon did very little, a minor shareholder in most companies and it was his employee's who made some minor improvements to EV's, rockets and internet micro satellites. Coincidentally, China is now producing better EV's at half the price so Tesla is basically a dead horse without even more taxpayer subsidies. So no, entitled rich kids bankrolled by there parents who grift and manipulate others for profit are hardly on the verge of extinction.

AC

[Allcanadian]

I was once again doing the impossible this morning.

Many people are conned into buying a "maintenance free lead acid battery" when in fact there is no such thing. By maintenance free they mean putting a large sticker over the fill/vent caps so the battery fails prematurely due to a low acid level. So this morning I was popping the vent caps and topping up the electrolyte level with deionized RO water in all my equipment batteries. My riding mower with a smaller utility battery had a low level just barely above the plates.

Low electrolyte levels are caused by evaporation over many charging cycles ie. time but it can also be overcharging. Overcharging is why many smaller cheaper vehicles like riding mowers, motorcycles and ATV's tend to "boil out" there batteries and fail more often.

Contrary to popular belief there are many things we can do to extend the battery life well beyond 15 years.
1)Check the electrolyte level every year.
2)Place some medium density foam under/around the battery to soften hard bumps which tend to break up the internal plates and bus bars.
3)If a battery constantly boils out check your charge voltage and regulator.

I think this is another good example of how many people believe false popular opinions and things which are just not factually true. Like when an supposed expert tells them there $200 battery must be replaced when there's a 80% chance a half litre of RO water could solve the problem.

AC

[broli]

Something useful to share with the group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11lPhMSulSU

This crackpot physics PhD lady sure sounds like a lunatic.

[Allcanadian]

Something useful to share with the group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11lPhMSulSU

This crackpot physics PhD lady sure sounds like a lunatic.

Those are wonderful theories however in the real world experiments always reign supreme.

For example, a magnet can move in any direction and induce currents but never on rotation. This is a demonstrable fact which when coupled with Faraday's claim there are no real lines of force renders most current theories a mute point. This is not a crackpot theory it's a valid experiment even a six year old can perform and it requires no math whatsoever.

Let's put this fake science to bed...
Question to Chat GPT:
-Are Faraday's lines of force real or imaginary?.

Answer:

-Faraday's lines of force, also known as magnetic field lines or electric field lines, are a conceptual tool used to visualize the direction and strength of electric and magnetic fields. They are not tangible physical objects themselves but rather a representation of the field's behavior.

Question:
-Why do so many people think these imaginary lines of force are real?.

Answer:

-The confusion may arise because the concept of field lines is a powerful and intuitive way to visualize electric and magnetic fields, and it's often taught in introductory physics courses as a fundamental concept. When students first encounter these concepts, they may interpret the representation of field lines as physical entities rather than abstract representations of the field's behavior.

Overall, while field lines are not tangible physical entities, they are a useful and widely accepted tool for understanding and describing electric and magnetic fields. However, it's essential to recognize them as conceptual aids rather than physical objects themselves.

Oh dear now were in big trouble. So in effect countless physics students have been falsely taught many imaginary things are real. In effect the foundation they are basing many other effects on like closed loops, rotations and vortexes which are also imaginary is also a lie. Could it get any worse?, I'm not sure how.

AC

[bistander]

So in effect countless physics students have been falsely taught many imaginary things are real. In effect the foundation they are basing many other effects on like closed loops, rotations and vortexes which are also imaginary is also a lie. Could it get any worse?, I'm not sure how.

AC

Show me a reputable source of mainstream science or conventional physics that teaches magnetic lines of force are real physical entities or that a magnetic field rotates on its NS axis.

Thanks,
bi

ps. Physics students are taught about conservative forces, still, I hope, which it seems is a theory to which you don't subscribe. Ref. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_force