Nilson Barbosa: On the extraction of electrical charges through resonance

[Jose Antonio]

BACKGROUND

Back in 2012, Nilson Barbosa and Lea De Moraes Cleriston from Brazil had everyone buzzing about a new motionless OU generator that looked a lot more professional than Tariel Kapanadze's units. At the time, they put out a few patents on the discovery and a few YouTube videos. People immediately got to work on attempting to duplicate the device. There was even one person on OU.com who claimed to have created a replication, but it was never clear if he actually really discovered their secret. There was even one person who was able to get their hands on a small unit and disassemble it. This didn't yield many clues and after seeing the pictures myself left me wondering if this person got part 2 of 2 and was missing another section.

Like others before Barbosa and Lea, their patents had been hard to follow and filled with basic theory with a good amount of BS. Reading their patents gave everyone the thought that they had no clue what was happening. That might have been reality at the time back then. After about a year, they fell out of the spotlight, and I recall they had been embattled in a few lawsuits and accused that their device stole power from the local power grid.

I commented in my Figuera thread that Barbosa and Lea had stumbled upon Figuera's secret. In their patent, they even use the same phrase Figuera used, "Universal Energy," to describe their machine. Barbosa is a very religious man and was determined to get his device to the people as stated in one interview I came across. But I think the pressure got to them and they decided to pull away from the spotlight to better study the device.

PRESENT TIME (2024)

Over a decade has passed since the first patent, and by chance, I found that Barbosa kept his dream alive. It appears that Lea is not associated with the new energy company that Barbosa started and Barbosa appears to have submitted a new patent for the device with a WIPO date of June 2024, and it is no longer called an Earth Electron Captor. The name of the patent is called "RESONATING COMPENSATING SYSTEMS FOR ELECTRICAL LOADS AND USAGE METHOD FOR BOTH." This time it is a lot more informative and provides more realistic information that should lead to entertaining conversation. The focus of the device operation is the extraction of energy through resonance.

I have attached the patents along with an English translation. This is interesting, and hopefully, we can engage in a productive (and realistic) conversation that will provide insight and a path to experimentation. I have stated numerous times that I believe that Mr. Barbosa and Mr. Leal stumbled upon Figueras's lost technology on the grounds that they both use the terminology Universal Energy and describe the output of the device in an identical way.

Let's review and engage in productive conversation that leads to a real path forward to finally solving the riddle.

Some Housekeeping

Please refrain from posting convoluted theories that do not fall inline with the spirit of the patent. The theory is already developed and we should converse on how best to implement and fill in any missing pieces. If you are not 100% sure about the physics, best to phrase your post as an inquiry and not copy/paste some internet BS claiming facts. This generally leads to pages of back-and-fourth with no real value.

This and other forums have some talented people. There is no reason that if we apply level logic, we can certainly get this completed. Remember, Figuera completed this with no fancy electronics, and Barbosa and Leal are talented but everyday humans like us. Here is a drawing and the abstract of the patent. I highlighted what could amount to a thesis statement.

-JA

[Jose Antonio]

Take a look at the picture below.



I am not sure if it is a bad image but it looks like the windings on the coils are not connected. This is interesting if it is open because the electromagnetic field generated would resemble the output of an antenna, although not a very good one. Would like to hear thoughts on this.

Obvious the patent does not represent an As-Built drawing, but this should be a good start. It is interesting on how they speak about the grounding circuit. really brings to mind the Tesla Magnifying Transmitter.

-JA

[chief kolbacict]

BACKGROUND
Barbosa is a very religious man and was determined to get his device to the people as stated in one interview I came across.

In Brazil, some Christian churches use ayahuasca. This drink expands consciousness.
If I had access to this, I would have invented more than this! 

[Jose Antonio]

An Important Update on Nielson Barbosa.....

Back after the original posting this I worked on tracking down Nielson Barbosa. It didn't take too long to discover physical addresses, businesses and his personal email address. Using Google street view I was able to pinpoint one of his more successful businesses in Brazil. My goal is not harassment, or to disclose his personal contact information but I wanted to make contact with him to hopefully get an understanding of what happened and learning about the device.

I was 100% confident that I had his personal email address but despite many emails I was not getting a reply. Finally, after writing another email today, explaining myself better, I received a response. This is the first communication from him and I plan on following up with him tomorrow.

Response from Nielson Barbosa

I hope this message finds you well. First and foremost, I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
I am excited to share that we are currently in the refinement phase of our development, with a new launch scheduled for November 2025.
We have recently filed with the National Institute of Industrial Property (INPI) a scalable version of our invention, aimed at reducing the dependence on the primary energy source. This advancement will allow the invention to be fully transparent and accessible to society through specialized companies, enabling electrical energy to become more accessible to everyone.
We firmly believe that we have achieved the solution to meet the growing demand for energy alternatives, providing a technology that is not only innovative but also sustainable and viable.

In the context of the Addition Certificate application, registered under the number BR 13 2024 023919 8, we have introduced the **RESONANT SYSTEMS FOR CAPTURING ELECTRICAL CHARGES FROM THE EARTH** and the **METHOD FOR TRANSFERRING ELECTRICAL CHARGES FROM THE EARTH THROUGH POWER ELECTRICAL CIRCUITS**. This document clarifies not only the proposed innovations but also the potential applications and benefits they can bring.

We are confident that these new guidelines and the progress made will significantly contribute to the development of more accessible and sustainable energy solutions.
Should you have any further questions or need additional information, please do not hesitate to contact me. I am here to help.

Best regards,

Nilson Barbosa



This is certainly a well thought out email and I believe he has this as a template ready to go when people inquire. His first email had the wrong year for release and he corrected himself about 20 minutes later when he replied again this time changing the date to November 2025. I started off my email by wishing him a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and on his second replay, as seen above, he added well wishes.

Hopefully this is a start of many communications and that he is successful with delivering this amazing device to market. It will certainly not be easy.

-Jose Antonio

[JimBoot]

An Important Update on Nielson Barbosa.....

Back after the original posting this I worked on tracking down Nielson Barbosa. It didn't take too long to discover physical addresses, businesses and his personal email address. Using Google street view I was able to pinpoint one of his more successful businesses in Brazil. My goal is not harassment, or to disclose his personal contact information but I wanted to make contact with him to hopefully get an understanding of what happened and learning about the device.

I was 100% confident that I had his personal email address but despite many emails I was not getting a reply. Finally, after writing another email today, explaining myself better, I received a response. This is the first communication from him and I plan on following up with him tomorrow.

Response from Nielson Barbosa

I hope this message finds you well. First and foremost, I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
I am excited to share that we are currently in the refinement phase of our development, with a new launch scheduled for November 2025.
We have recently filed with the National Institute of Industrial Property (INPI) a scalable version of our invention, aimed at reducing the dependence on the primary energy source. This advancement will allow the invention to be fully transparent and accessible to society through specialized companies, enabling electrical energy to become more accessible to everyone.
We firmly believe that we have achieved the solution to meet the growing demand for energy alternatives, providing a technology that is not only innovative but also sustainable and viable.

In the context of the Addition Certificate application, registered under the number BR 13 2024 023919 8, we have introduced the **RESONANT SYSTEMS FOR CAPTURING ELECTRICAL CHARGES FROM THE EARTH** and the **METHOD FOR TRANSFERRING ELECTRICAL CHARGES FROM THE EARTH THROUGH POWER ELECTRICAL CIRCUITS**. This document clarifies not only the proposed innovations but also the potential applications and benefits they can bring.

We are confident that these new guidelines and the progress made will significantly contribute to the development of more accessible and sustainable energy solutions.
Should you have any further questions or need additional information, please do not hesitate to contact me. I am here to help.

Best regards,

Nilson Barbosa



This is certainly a well thought out email and I believe he has this as a template ready to go when people inquire. His first email had the wrong year for release and he corrected himself about 20 minutes later when he replied again this time changing the date to November 2025. I started off my email by wishing him a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and on his second replay, as seen above, he added well wishes.

Hopefully this is a start of many communications and that he is successful with delivering this amazing device to market. It will certainly not be easy.

-Jose Antonio

It's written by an LLM. Hopefully we can all buy one.

[maxmalone]

Will Santa bring us all an answer regarding the FE device this year? How long can we wait still? 

[Jose Antonio]

I can certainly appreciate your sarcasm because for the last 10 years the only potential disclosure came from a toothless Georgian who supplied you nothing but second-hand smoke. Do I really think that come November 2025, you're going to be able to buy a 15Kw unit on Amazon? Nope, and never, because I am sure most of you know what disruptive technology is and how special interest groups work.

I stated in my post I uncovered numerous businesses in which he is either a majority stakeholder or a minor partner.  So he is not some dude experimenting in his bedroom, he is very much into the research end of this and certainly has a VERY strong interest in renewables. Also understand this is not the only renewable he is vested in. He is a seasoned businessman (for many years), and if you are thinking that he (his organization) will post a schematic on a napkin and pass it off on X or Reddit, then you are better off placing your hopes on the toothless Georgian.

Here is my guess. There is a huge demand for power in the emerging AI market. Billions of parameters and calculations are performed to operate the models, and these data centers need a tremendous amount of cooling and power for processing. Imagine a business model that partners with industries to deliver scalable power under proprietary technology, exclusively to the AI data center development. In this model, you would lease the equipment, and the cost of the lease would be a percentage of the dollars saved on legacy energy systems. Even better, because you are leasing the technology the maintenance and service on the equipment is handled exclusively by a few companies. This model is not new, and I have already dealt with a similar one in the installation of natural gas fuel cells.

Regardless, we can sit and wait for the toothless one to bless us with his second-hand smoke or wait for a wiring diagram of Nielson's device to break on Reddit. Or do nothing and keep yapping about some magical Free Energy.

A better option is to engage in a discussion based on the patent WO2024130362A1 and start understanding, from a non-magical perspective, what needs to be developed to move charge from Point A to Point B. Of course the patent "Resonant systems for capturing electrical charges from the earth and use of a method for transferring electrical charges from the earth through electrical power circuits." doesn't explain everything, but it is a reasonable starting point.

BTW.......  I followed-up on their claim of filing with National Institute of Industrial Property. They did just that about 45 days ago. To put this timeline into perspective, understand that they started researching before 2000 and had a basic (ruff) model by 2003 that was installed in a house by sometime around 2004-2007. Patent application started afterward, but it appears the initial business model was not suitable and created unwanted attention and some legal issues to overcome. Here we are now in 2024 and it is slowly moving forward under a different model that benefits emerging technology.




-Jose Antonio

[Chet K]

In Brazil, some Christian churches use ayahuasca. This drink expands consciousness.
If I had access to this, I would have invented more than this! 

Chief
What is really interesting in Brazil is their ( many areas of country) single wire earth return (SWER) electric grid.
And The ability to harvest ( utilizing a really interesting ground array)
Energy from SWER grid ...
I remember many played with this in years gone bye,

quite certain there were many business opportunities ..( money changing hands (looks like magic until SWER vulnerabilities are understood ))
For clarity even modern grids have "harvesting issues" ( some unaware and some ...??

the world could use a true open source  "over unity" napkin drawing...

FE Patents ...and other pending FE business "opportunities " ....Not so much...(are they still a dime a dozen?( with inflation??))

Not just one mans opinion!

Respectfully
Chet K

[maxmalone]

BR 10 2023 026639 8
Here is the original application. Unfortunately, there is no patent documentation here.


BR 10 2022 026022 2 A2...
RESONATOR SYSTEMS FOR CAPTURING ELECTRIC CHARGES FROM THE EARTH and USE OF A METHOD FOR TRANSFERRING ELECTRIC CHARGES FROM THE EARTH FOR TRANSMISSION, DISTRIBUTION AND SUPPLY OF ELECTRIC POWER CIRCUITS. The present invention relates to the improvement of the circuits of the objects of patent application BR 10 2021 019838-9. The present application includes in the electrical circuits the use of the circuits of the objects of the present application and reveals one of the alternatives of the non-limiting variants of the circuits of the objects of the present patent application that strongly contribute to the generation of green energy using the perfect mastery over the resonance effect that naturally resonates at the fundamental frequency and now achieves the effect of electrification and polarization of the electrical charges of the earth, and provide the transfer of electrical charges from the Earth as reverse active power to the electrical power circuits, consuming only the excitation energy from the primary source. And alternatively they can be designed through the addition of suitable devices that hinder the passage of energy to cause resonance at negative frequencies of up to at least -70 GHz and/or resonate at a positive resonance frequency of up to at least 7.8 GHz. The aforementioned application also refers to a method that makes use of independent grounding structures, making these grounding structures operate in a permanently energized manner, uninterruptedly transferring electrical charges from the earth to the electrical power circuits through the circuits of the EARTH ELECTRIC CHARGE CAPTURE RESONATOR SYSTEMS.
...

..positive resonance frequency of up to at least 7.8 GHz...


You criticize me for Kapanadze, and meanwhile you don't know who this Barbosa is and what he lives off of. Maybe from promises. Today it's easy to find people who want to invest even a lot of money. It's enough to show them that they can earn billions of dollars on this and they will agree to all concessions.

I don't expect anyone to give a real scheme or even a principle. We've seen and heard a lot. Let me remind you that none of these inventors have kept their promises of a working device for others. I don't know of a single such real case, do you?

I can name a few right away that you also know, but it doesn't change anything.

Where is the previous B&L device? Capptor? Why don't we know how it works and why couldn't anyone repeat it? just like Kapnadze, Steven Mark, Don Smith, Morey, SweetFloyd, Grey, Colman, Hans Coler, Newman and companies... Lutec, Innovatechno, infinitysav, , N.Machine, Testatica, SEMP etc..

I don't believe that this is a big secret and it is hidden from our eyes.
You have everything to repeat it but nothing comes of it and I know that you know no one who has even 1W more if it is not a lemon or a potato.

Yes, I am suspicious but not skeptical because I know that there is a way and that is why I am here and writing. I am not waiting for a ready device from Amaz.. although I am 1000000% sure if tomorrow someone shows it, sooner or later it will be on Ali.. and then on Amaz. Unless they are afraid of it that they will ban what I doubt. It depends on the scale. Let's think: are PVs available everywhere!? yes, you can make a 100% self-sufficient source of energy for yourself and even your neighbors. What's the problem? Will someone come with electronics and break your solar panels? possible, but it will probably be an angry neighbor.

I'm curious what will come out of it.

[Jose Antonio]

BR 10 2023 026639 8
Here is the original application. Unfortunately, there is no patent documentation here.

I linked the patent in my original post.

You criticize me for Kapanadze, and meanwhile you don't know who this Barbosa is and what he lives off of. Maybe from promises.

My comments about a toothless Georgian who supplied you nothing but second-hand smoke was directed at Tariel not you, but if you do have those issues now is a good time for that New Year Resolution. 

Correct, I originally didn't know who Nilson Barbosa is and still don't. But I do know a few facts about him like that he owns one of the largest electrical supply shops in Brazil and also provides installation of industrial control systems. He is involved with PV technology to a very large extent and is a minority owner in a few other businesses. I do not know him, but my research has suggested that he is a serious business man that has invested hundreds of thousands on his business whereas TK is a scam artist.

Today it's easy to find people who want to invest even a lot of money. It's enough to show them that they can earn billions of dollars on this and they will agree to all concessions.

You are correct. Just last week Softbank committed 100 Billion investment in the US to startup companies that don't currently exist. Investment money and people willing to give it away is everywhere.

I don't expect anyone to give a real scheme or even a principle. We've seen and heard a lot. Let me remind you that none of these inventors have kept their promises of a working device for others. I don't know of a single such real case, do you?

Don't know of any case and agree with you.

Where is the previous B&L device? Capptor? Why don't we know how it works and why couldn't anyone repeat it? just like Kapnadze, Steven Mark, Don Smith, Morey, SweetFloyd, Grey, Colman, Hans Coler, Newman and companies... Lutec, Innovatechno, infinitysav, , N.Machine, Testatica, SEMP etc..

It is my understanding the current device is the original Captor. I specifically asked questions regarding Leal and the Captor but have not gotten a response yet. Regardless, I am going to keep asking those questions and when I get answers I will pass the information along.

I don't believe that this is a big secret and it is hidden from our eyes.
You have everything to repeat it but nothing comes of it and I know that you know no one who has even 1W more if it is not a lemon or a potato.

I don't disagree with you, and like many I need to see it for myself, but more importantly I want to know how the energy is transferred because it may unlock new technology in my area of expertise, and that is mechanical HVAC engineering.

Yes, I am suspicious but not skeptical because I know that there is a way and that is why I am here and writing. I am not waiting for a ready device from Amaz.. although I am 1000000% sure if tomorrow someone shows it, sooner or later it will be on Ali.. and then on Amaz. Unless they are afraid of it that they will ban what I doubt. It depends on the scale. Let's think: are PVs available everywhere!? yes, you can make a 100% self-sufficient source of energy for yourself and even your neighbors. What's the problem? Will someone come with electronics and break your solar panels? possible, but it will probably be an angry neighbor.

I'm curious what will come out of it.

I agree with you here too. I spent some time tracking him down, getting his home address, phone numbers, places of business not because I am a stalker, but because I am like others who are interested in understanding the science and what can be made of it. Of course, I want to uncover real data that can point us to the correct direction.



Let me ask you a question. what are your thoughts on the below.

..positive resonance frequency of up to at least 7.8 GHz...

-Jose Antonio

[maxmalone]

..częstotliwość rezonansu dodatniego do co najmniej 7,8 GHz..

I don't know and at first I thought it was a 7.8Hz error, but there is also another value in GHz, so it's probably not an error.

[Jose Antonio]

Not necessarily off-topic.

Take a good look at the below picture. This picture is meant to provide inspiration. This is a picture of New York City in the mid-1890s. During this time, an individual in the Canary Islands named Clemente Figuera had been experimenting with a device that delivered 100 watts for every 1 watt of input.

Maybe there is something we are completely overlooking.

[maxmalone]

First Electric Taxis, 1896

[maxmalone]

What is presented in the documents corresponds to the movement of the magnetic field in the coils according to the pattern of growth. I do not think that this is enough to obtain growth.

From what various sources write, the generator and the engine are one and the same. This can be understood literally, i.e. the output energy powers the same device. Is it so strange? That is exactly the point.

The issue related to the atmosphere is apparently refuted by Clemens himself, who categorically denies that the energy comes from the atmosphere. He points to the energy particles that are in iron.

There are many devices where the authors emphasize that iron is the basis of their devices. However, we do not know what kind of iron they are talking about. We know that in 1900 iron was not like it is now, but what kind? In my opinion, it is simply pure iron. Soft iron is pure iron. Without any other additives. We now know that such iron is not as effective as transformer steel or special alloys such as perrmaloy, etc. Have we thereby blocked the possibility of FE?

Possible.
Pierre and I made a DZ generator and several versions based on the Figuera project. Several versions of coils and entire blocks on the engine body in different configurations. We did a lot of work, including gentle changes in the magnetic field described in Clemens's documents. We did not receive any positive results. NOTHING.

Therefore, if this device is possible, there is certainly no information about something important. Maybe it is iron. We used transformer steel and ferrite blocks specially ordered from China.

As you know, recently there was a company from Korea SEMP that also refers to an iron core with properties for FE. I do not know why it disappeared. Their device resembles Figuera very much.
However, very strong current pulses are given there, which are supposed to induce current in the coils.

There are many such examples ... unfortunately and it does not change anything.

[Jose Antonio]

What is presented in the documents corresponds to the movement of the magnetic field in the coils according to the pattern of growth. I do not think that this is enough to obtain growth.

Ahh..... yes my confirmation bias is kicking in. I have suspected this, that the shape and frequency of the magnetic field is at the fundamental of all these devices. Checkout their website https://evolucoes.com Look at the rotating gold graphic moving in one direction and the light blue one oscillating back and forth. Think about this, one magnetic field is oscillating while the other is being influenced to move in one direction. As I am writing this, a Figuera quote popped into my head, to paraphrase "A switch can be used to change direction"  FYI..... as you look at that picture, understand that Nilson owns businesses in solar, wind, and commercial energy control systems. All three are pictured, so what do those moving graphics mean?  Hmm.

From what various sources write, the generator and the engine are one and the same. This can be understood literally, i.e. the output energy powers the same device. Is it so strange? That is exactly the point.

Yes, Figuera also states that design of the exciting electromagnets is COMPLETELY irrelevant of output. So that is to say that what creates the magnetic field is divorced form the needs of the secondary side. Part of the primary side (for lack of a better phrase) powers the input.

The issue related to the atmosphere is apparently refuted by Clemens himself, who categorically denies that the energy comes from the atmosphere. He points to the energy particles that are in iron.

I am not familiar with this, however I have speculated this based on the teachings of Ed. L. Any reference you have would be interesting.

Possible.
Pierre and I made a DZ generator and several versions based on the Figuera project. Several versions of coils and entire blocks on the engine body in different configurations. We did a lot of work, including gentle changes in the magnetic field described in Clemens's documents. We did not receive any positive results. NOTHING.

Therefore, if this device is possible, there is certainly no information about something important. Maybe it is iron. We used transformer steel and ferrite blocks specially ordered from China.

I have no data here. I also believe iron is important but many patents claim with or without cores. Not sure if that is BS.

As you know, recently there was a company from Korea SEMP that also refers to an iron core with properties for FE. I do not know why it disappeared. Their device resembles Figuera very much.
However, very strong current pulses are given there, which are supposed to induce current in the coils.

I don't know anything about this. Truth is I am extremely busy at work as I work for a well known global company and tasked as a subject matter expert in HVAC and BMS systems. I would love to have more time to experiment and even work on OUOcafe.net but at this time it is not happening. Now with Trump in office it is expected that industry will grow and all of our business indicators point to that so I don't expect to have too much free time in 2025 and beyond.

Trying to help where I can

- Jose Antonio

[maxmalone]

Here is the SEMP patent. If you familiarize yourself with it, you will also see the similarities to Figuera.

https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2021201518A4/en?oq=WO+2021%2f201518+A4

and pdf

[chief kolbacict]

Now with Trump in office it is expected that industry will grow and all of our business indicators point to that so I don't expect to have too much free time in 2025 and beyond.

It turns out because you  there is no certainty of success of spend of time.
Because otherwise the profit would exceed any salary. 

[F6FLT]

...
As you know, recently there was a company from Korea SEMP that also refers to an iron core with properties for FE. I do not know why it disappeared. Their device resembles Figuera very much.
...

I've already answered this: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4563.msg110031#msg110031
Why did it disappear? Quite simply because it only ever existed in the imagination of con artists.

Their group claims that their system is backed by 70 patents. Which ones are they? It's up to you to answer since you're talking about SEMP.
Their group claims that a "bandwagoning theory" would explain how it works. Where is the scientific document for this theory? You answer.
In an older version of their site, a member of their research group was claimed to be a professor at Seoul University. Really? No Korean university refers to SEMP and no SEMP researcher is referenced by a university.
If you had studied the subject at least a little like me, you would have understood that their file is completely empty. Talking about it is promoting these crooks, in addition to wasting our time.

As for claiming that the Figuera device "resembles" the SEMP, here we enter into the complete absurdity of appearances alone: ​​as we know nothing of the supposed functioning, never demonstrated moreover, speaking of resemblance here is like saying that a cooling water coil "resembles" a Tesla coil! 

[maxmalone]

I've already answered this: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4563.msg110031#msg110031
Why did it disappear? Quite simply because it only ever existed in the imagination of con artists.

Their group claims that their system is backed by 70 patents. Which ones are they? It's up to you to answer since you're talking about SEMP.
Their group claims that a "bandwagoning theory" would explain how it works. Where is the scientific document for this theory? You answer.
In an older version of their site, a member of their research group was claimed to be a professor at Seoul University. Really? No Korean university refers to SEMP and no SEMP researcher is referenced by a university.
If you had studied the subject at least a little like me, you would have understood that their file is completely empty. Talking about it is promoting these crooks, in addition to wasting our time.

As for claiming that the Figuera device "resembles" the SEMP, here we enter into the complete absurdity of appearances alone: ​​as we know nothing of the supposed functioning, never demonstrated moreover, speaking of resemblance here is like saying that a cooling water coil "resembles" a Tesla coil! 

You are trying to be a judge in a lost cause. Neither you nor I have any idea what is true. I only pointed out the similarities I see looking through my eyes to Figuera. How do you know if Figuera is real!? Nothing more comes of it. I agree that SEMP looks more like a fraud than it is a real device. If you have a problem with that, all FE devices should be considered frauds and forums writing about it should be closed. I am also annoyed by the fact that the same thing is repeated every now and then. SEMP is somehow documented like other similar devices and it is not a motor with a spring or a magnet on a spiral. Every now and then you come back to it and you know why? Because no one has proven that it is a fraud. If I said that I would never go back to a device because it seems to me that it is a fraud, I would lose optimism and faith that it is possible. Do you know how many times I had to change my mind!? and I still do. You don't?

[F6FLT]

... all FE devices should be considered frauds...

That's right. Frauds, or mistakes.

and forums writing about it should be closed

Certainly not. Free energy forums, at least this one here, is a research forum. Research in science is about presenting facts and trying to explain them.
If there is nothing to observe, nor any refutable theory, then there is nothing to say, the case with SEMP.

SEMP is somehow documented like other similar devices

That's right: we've got nothing. I'm still waiting for the list of 70 patents supporting their machine. Have you read them? Can you tell us about them?

...Because no one has proven that it is a fraud...

You're reversing the burden of proof, which shows a lack of understanding of rational method.
"The burden of proof is the obligation on a party in a dispute to provide sufficient warrant for its position.
The burden of proof lies with the one who speaks, not the one who denies."

No one has to prove that it's a fraud or not. It's up to those who claim to have created a machine that would defy the laws of physics to provide proof commensurate with their claim. If not, yes, we can claim it's a fraud or whatever, as long as proof to the contrary hasn't been provided.

To be able to experiment with anything or discuss it operationally, which is the point here I remind you, the subject must be refutable in the sense of Poppers ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability ). SEMP is not refutable due to the complete absence of experimental facts or theoretical evidence. It is therefore of the same nature as a religious theory such as reincarnation, or a superstition such as the existence of leprechauns. Do you seriously believe that you could experiment with leprechauns? Then why did you bring up SEMP? I can't think of any other reason than to think that the FE is ultimately a matter of beliefs, like the one about leprechauns, and that anything can be evoked on the pretext that anything hasn't been proven false. And this is all the more absurd given that a non-falsifiable subject like SEMP cannot, by that very fact, be proven false.

Imho the purpose of the forum is not for everyone to rehash vague claims or raving stories without contributing anything logic or factual. We're here to experiment, not to promote or parrot what crooks and incompetents say about their unproven pseudo inventions.

[chief kolbacict]

That's right. Frauds, or mistakes.

Is the existence of human on earth a fraud or a mistake ?
Because the one and another is doing only human. 

[F6FLT]

Is the existence of human on earth a fraud or a mistake ?
Because the one and another is doing only human. 

Surely a random event, since nothing on earth works properly (or god's mistake)

[Thaelin]

Pandora's Box with a great big can of worms inside. No end to the arguments that it can cause.

[Jose Antonio]

Gents, please take your ridiculous off-topic posts elsewhere. 

Mod, please delete these off-topic posts (including this one). On this thread, we will converse about the device utilizing the many patents available. You are entitled (and encouraged) to start your own thread about whatever crap you want.

Not Here.

- Jose Antonio