Will it spin?

[broli]

This community is slowly going comatose so here is a new thought experiment to perhaps wake it up. Will the below assembly start to spin (maybe accelerate) as a whole when the motor starts to spin?



Your average skeptic will obviously say no and lecture you on Newton's third law because the motor is part of the assembly. However the motor's torque vector is also at an 90 degrees angle so any counter torque will be collinear with the motor axle not with that of the assembly. So that becomes a head scratchier. Something something, friction, turbulence, tangent forces....

Any fence builders willing to build the experiment and see what happens?

[Smudge]

Is the large disc a conductor like copper, is it magnetic like ferrite or is it both like iron?

Smudge

[broli]

Is the large disc a conductor like copper, is it magnetic like ferrite or is it both like iron?

Smudge

It has to at least be conductive for it to interact with the magnets, not so much magnetic but it wouldn't hurt either. However the magnets could just as well be friction pads rubbing against the bottom plate same result and interaction but wasteful.

It's really about how a linear tangential force at the axle can give rise to a rotational force off axis. Here is an another way to look at it using friction only. In this case the friction due to the roller bearings interact with the larger plate causing it to rotate whilst the forces that are causing it are stationed at the center of the whole. The air gap can be arbitrary small and in this case we want to maximize friction rather than lower it for higher torque.

[Magluvin]

This community is slowly going comatose so here is a new thought experiment to perhaps wake it up. Will the below assembly start to spin (maybe accelerate) as a whole when the motor starts to spin?



Your average skeptic will obviously say no and lecture you on Newton's third law because the motor is part of the assembly. However the motor's torque vector is also at an 90 degrees angle so any counter torque will be collinear with the motor axle not with that of the assembly. So that becomes a head scratchier. Something something, friction, turbulence, tangent forces....

Any fence builders willing to build the experiment and see what happens?

yes it will spin.  better to have the disk a ring instead of the outer dia so you have less drag on the rest of the disk.  this is how old speedometers worked

mag

[broli]

yes it will spin.  better to have the disk a ring instead of the outer dia so you have less drag on the rest of the disk.  this is how old speedometers worked

mag

This reminds me that even a flexible shaft can do the trick.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL4z7pnJ418

However if I may be the devil's advocate, wouldn't it start spinning perhaps even accelerating under a constant RPM of the motor be a paradox? How can a 'closed' system exhibit a constant torque more so when the driving torque is at 90 degrees angle of the entire assembly.

[broli]

I am curious when people are going to wake up. 'Free energy' if it exists must be reduced to something as simple a child can understand. Everything interesting in nature seem to be a surface level effect from trees to heck the human skin which defines our appearance and the way we interact. ALL physics is trying to do is figure out what happens when two particles interact at high velocity aka when they nearly 'touch'. Seems like all we are trying to do is figure out the tangent problem. Whether it's nature or computer simulations, all are solving the tangency problem of  when two bodies 'touch'. Feynman diagrams anyone? And what happens when we try do so? Huge amounts of energy is liberated among a whole sea of new particles and fields. It's endless people like a Mandelbrot fractal that keeps spewing infinite complexity the deeper you go due to a simple edge approximation.

It's all energy and information processing of edge/tangency effects. Imagine a Finite Element Method (FEM) that keeps refining itself to approximate the answer, the question is how low of a mesh refinement do you need to go to figure out the 'truth', the Planck scale? Who cares as we can literally create our own tangent force simulator essentially for free and turn it into rotational kinetic energy as the 'byproduct'. 





Wake up people, it's a simple friction problem, it's child's play.

[broli]

Shear stress occurs when two bodies move/slide relative to each other, sure sounds like the most basic application of friction.



Friction, resistance, induction. All happens when there is relative motion between two disjoint bodies. Even mister Onestone's general relativity equation has shear stress terms in it. Friction IS the magic force/interaction/equation of how anything interacts and exchanges momentum and energy.

Now lets continuously exchange rotational momentum using friction. How? Insert a smaller disc within a larger disc and start spinning it, the friction will impart torque onto the larger disc.



As long as there is a constant relative velocity between the two discs there will be a constant torque acting on the bigger disc ie. a constant momentum exchange due to F=ma. So the whole assembly will not only keep spinning but be under a constant rotational acceleration, but the kicker is the fact the smaller disc is off center meaning it will be dragged ALONG by the larger disc and thus they will never find equilibrium in their velocity.

But how do you provide the constant driving power to keep the small disc spinning in the rotating frame? Well you could add a motor in the rotating frame and place it exactly above the axis of rotation. This eliminates any back torque/force too.



So a constant power input of P = F*v gives you a constant torque a constant acceleration or put simple a constant exchange of angular momentum.

Now for the skeptics. What if you allowed it to accelerate to some arbitrary angular velocity and decided to extract this rotational power. The output would be P_output=F(constant)*v(variable). The output thus depends on the variable RPM of the large disc you wish to extract power at.

Note the INTERNAL rpm of the motor does NOT change it keeps pushing along that internal disc at the same RPM the entire way. The other interesting question is, is the internal motor even needed at all with some simple gearing setup.

[panyuming]

 
Is it equivalent to a planetary reducer?

[F6FLT]

...
Friction IS the magic force/interaction/equation of how anything interacts and exchanges momentum and energy.
...

Harry Potter quote?

Friction connects two moving parts, like a gear or a belt. The difference is that a gear or belt is much more efficient, with fewer losses, unlike friction.
I don't understand this profession of faith in friction, when there is no experimental or theoretical evidence to show that it has any benefit.
You should build something rather than images and speeches, to understand why it's a dead end. Of course I'd be delighted if you could prove me wrong.