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Author Topic: Free energy is easy, ask an intelligent question...  (Read 16493 times)

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Buy me some coffee
... ok ... first things first. This is an attempt at a replication, as I have stated on the build thread at mooker.com. Hubbard built this, not me, I'm copying what Hubbard did based on a very small amount of information that we were left. If you believe I've made a furnace, then by extension Hubbard made a furnace...

Secondly, the secret to OU is to understand that Howard Johnson was right. There is a second inverted magnetic field operating within a magnet, both inner and outer magnetic fields spin in opposite directions. Get past the native outside N|S field and you get the underlying S|N field (with it's opposite spin) - this is where gravitic properties exist as well. Counterwound coils are the chief differentiators, and feature in almost every design that reportedly yielded OU results... Robert Adams, Floyd Sweet, Don Smith, etc... If you can get past the S|N barrier, the reward is zero point.

Hubbard (I believe) was able to create a square wave by combining resonant wire lengths in the centre, middle and outer coils. This square wave effectively turns on and off a magnetic field in the middle coils over the output tube at a precise moment - some degrees after the centre coil peaks, that results in a growing North field (outer coils) and a shrinking North (South) field (centre coil), which then reverses for a South field and repeats ... the output coil being sandwiched between inner and outer tubes, senses the fields moving in two different directions, and with equilibrium upset, we get access to the underlying S|N field to harvest power - as that underlying South field is implosive, it also explains why successful inventors talk about their systems running cool.

So how does your interpretation of the Hubbard work?















   

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... ok ... first things first. This is an attempt at a replication, as I have stated on the build thread at mooker.com.
...and I want your build to succeed. I am contributing to this by pointing out rookie theoretical and engineering mistakes to you based on the component phenomena that I am familiar with. I don't claim to know all of the phenomena that go on in this device, but I do know some of them.

Hubbard built this, not me, I'm copying what Hubbard did based on a very small amount of information that we were left.
Exactly, this device was built 106 years ago in times when clear photographs in newspapers were minor miracles.
These grainy photos show us only the outermost coil.
There is a professionally made sketch from these times that depicts 9 coils inside this device (in addition to the outer coil). The newspaper of the time named it the Hubbard coil (note the singular) because that is what was visible on the outside.


Since this is a sketch and not a photograph, its subject matter was first processed by a human brain.
Sketches can, by their very nature, depict simplifications and interpretations of their maker.
If the sketcher is not the inventor, the potential for misinterpretations is huge.

For example, the sketch depicts one central object surrounded by a circular pattern of 8 other cylindrical objects.
These objects are assumed to be "electro-magnets" or helical coils wound on some kind of cylindrical formers (or cores) on the basis of the following newspaper quote:

"In general, he says, it is made up of a group of eight electro-magnets,
each with primary and secondary windings of copper wire,
which are arranged around a large steel core. 
The core likewise has a single winding.
About the entire group of cells is a secondary winding."


Note, that the passage "each with primary and secondary windings of copper wire" implies that these "electo-magnets" are in fact transformers and practical transformers don't work with DC so the current flowing through these windings must be PDC or AC.
Also, the phrase "electro-magnets" imply that there is some kind of magnetic field generated by these objects in response to the flow of electric current.  This implies magnetic interaction.  ...and because the windings are in such proximity - near-field magnetic interaction.

Because the sketch is so grainy, you assume that the coils' formers are steel tubes since the sketcher has drawn circles where their ends would be.
Since DC is practically excluded and PDC or AC is implied, the steel tubes/pipes seem to be only your misguided interpretation.  I write 'misguided" because you are not "guiding" your interpretations with physical knowledge, i.e. you are not considering the physical effects of steel tubes inside of windings carrying PDC or AC, such as the eddy currents and hysteresis losses.
Furthermore, the higher the frequency of current flowing in these windings, the smaller the probability that these coils are wound on solid steel tubes because of these losses (these phenomena were all alive and well in 1919).
To mitigate the eddy currents, slots could be cut in the steel tubes but that does nothing to mitigate their hysteresis losses.

So what were the copper coils wound on ? 
There are two groups of answers depending whether the inventor wanted to maximize or minimize the magnetic flux generated by these "electro-magnets"/transformers:
  1) If he wanted the magnetic flux to be minimized while retaining low losses at high current frequencies, he would have made them air-core coils ...or coils wound on non-conductive paramagnetic or diamagnetic materials such as Bakelite or glass or even cardboard or dry wood.
  2) If he wanted to make good transformers, he would aim to maximize the flux and flux amplitude by using highly permeable cores of low conductivity.

A boy in 1919 would have only three classes of materials at his disposition that meet the latter requirements: Steel/Iron laminations, wire or powder since contemporary ferrites have not yet been discovered in 1919.

Out of these 3 forms of steel/iron, enameled wires or laminations are the easiest to deal with.  Binding and insulating from each other the individual grains of iron powder is a major hassle that is sometimes justified by the isotropicity of the resulting material.  Otherwise iron powder yields cores of inferior permeability if high pressure sintering is not used without binders.
Since laminations are hard to form into cores of circular cross sections, this leaves enameled steel/iron wires as the prime candidate for fashioning highly permeable cylindrical cores which are anisotropically non-conductive.

If you look at this grainy sketch again you might be able to see the ends of a bundle of small wires protruding out of the coils ...or just a scanning noise.

Using iron wire bundles for fashioning cylindrical permeable cores does not preclude the existence of thin coil formers made out of non-conductive paramagnetic or diamagnetic materials such as plastic, ceramic or glass.

NOTE: If in your rebuttal of the analysis above you are intending to use the drawings or words from the 1983 replication of this device, don't even start because this replication was subject to the same misinterpretations of the source material.

If you believe I've made a furnace, then by extension Hubbard made a furnace...
Not at all because the key ingredients necessary to make an inductive furnace (i.e.: eddy currents and hysteresis losses) would only be created in a build based on your misguided interpretation of that sketch.

Secondly, the secret to OU is to understand that Howard Johnson was right.
How do you know ?

There is a second inverted magnetic field operating within a magnet, both inner and outer magnetic fields spin in opposite directions.
This is an ambiguous statement because it is not clear from it whether it is the entire magnetic field that spins, like this:

...or individual flux lines that spin (J.Newman style) like this:
http://rexresearch.com/newmanpatents/wo8300963b.JPG
Free energy is easy, ask an intelligent question...


Which one did you mean ?

Anyway, according to mainstream science, magnetic field does not spin by itself but it does influence the spin of material particles, e.g. electrons.

Get past the native outside N|S field and you get the underlying S|N field (with it's opposite spin) - this is where gravitic properties exist as well.
I don't know what you mean.  I think it's time to make a drawing of the fields in your theory. e.g. like this:


I've been hearing for years now that a coil wound as follows has some gravitic properties ...but I have never seen it confirmed.



Counterwound coils are the chief differentiators, and feature in almost every design that reportedly yielded OU results... Robert Adams, Floyd Sweet, Don Smith, etc...
If you can get past the S|N barrier, the reward is zero point.
This makes no sense - flux lines form closed loops that do not intersect, not a barrier.
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/solenoid-field-magnetic-field-lines-direction-flow-d-render-illustration-isolated-black-background-maco-magnified-view-angled-185806505.jpg
Free energy is easy, ask an intelligent question...


Anyway, when you write "counterwound", which of the following coils do you mean  ?



How do these coil topologies make a difference ?  It's time to stop speaking in generalities without explaining them !

Hubbard (I believe) was able to create a square wave by combining resonant wire lengths in the centre, middle and outer coils.
Wave of what ?
Wires of any length do not create any square waves by themselves, so how is any wave generated by this device ?
Wires of some lengths interact with some wavelengths of electric field like this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Dipole_antenna_standing_waves_animation_6_-_5fps.gif
Free energy is easy, ask an intelligent question...


This square wave effectively turns on and off a magnetic field in the middle coils over the output tube at a precise moment
First explain, what generates the magnetic field that is interrupted ?


So how does your interpretation of the Hubbard work?
You are not ready for it.  First you have to muddle through what you came up with.


This time answer all of my questions directly.  It is easy to identify them because they have question marks at their ends.






   
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You forgot some nuances of this period :
-  Tesla was experimenting with radio waves transmitting energy
-  Hubbard was experimenting with radio transmitters (later he was involved in commercial radio station)
-  Amman brothers created similiar device and it was said it worked within the range of kind of activator or  transmitter
-  Lester Hendershot has device with tuned radio frequency circuits

my thought : it was all tapping energy sent by Tesla device or an unknown effect was used to amplify radio frequency energy (probably from interfacing with Earth magnetic field0.
   

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"In general, he says, it is made up of a group of eight electro-magnets,
each with primary and secondary windings of copper wire,
which are arranged around a large steel core.
The core likewise has a single winding.
About the entire group of cells is a secondary winding."


but in the drawing, I see only 4 wires.  Maybe 'he' said some of this to keep the secret of what is reality going on inside..  Maybe....   

Im thinking that 2 wires go to the outer coils, from other depictions it looks to be series, and 2 wires go to the middle winding...

for only 4 wires coming out of the device, I fail to see that there is a rotating field of the outer windings.

Mags
   

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You forgot some nuances of this period :
-  Tesla was experimenting with radio waves transmitting energy
-  Hubbard was experimenting with radio transmitters (later he was involved in commercial radio station)
-  Amman brothers created similiar device and it was said it worked within the range of kind of activator or  transmitter
-  Lester Hendershot has device with tuned radio frequency circuits

my thought : it was all tapping energy sent by Tesla device or an unknown effect was used to amplify radio frequency energy (probably from interfacing with Earth magnetic field0.


hey Forest

I havnt seen anything that indicated radio freq, circuitry, related to the hubbard coil.  do you know of any?

mags
   

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You forgot some nuances of this period :
-  Tesla was experimenting with radio waves transmitting energy
-  Hubbard was experimenting with radio transmitters (later he was involved in commercial radio station)
-  Amman brothers created similiar device and it was said it worked within the range of kind of activator or  transmitter
-  Lester Hendershot has device with tuned radio frequency circuits
All of that implies that high frequencies were more likely to have been used in this device.
The higher the frequency of current flowing in these windings the less likely it is that the windings contain any bulk metal inside them.
Slotted metal tubes might be acceptable at low frequencies but at the stipulated power levels and high frequencies (even kHz) any bulk metal in these "electro-magnets"/transformers = inductive furnace.

I wrote "transformers" because only transformers have primary and secondary windings and that newspaper quote mentioned two windings in one "electro-magnet" and explicitly named them "primary" and "secondary".  Such arrangement constitutes a transformer.
   

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but in the drawing, I see only 4 wires.  Maybe 'he' said some of this to keep the secret of what is reality going on inside..  Maybe....   
...for only 4 wires coming out of the device, I fail to see that there is a rotating field of the outer windings.
from other depictions it looks to be series, and 2 wires go to the middle winding...
You see four cables.  Who knows how many wires were in each cable.  It all depends on the interpretations made by the author of that sketch.
Also, these wires don't have to be connected directly to the internal windings - they can be supply wires to some kind of internal circuitry (e.g.: LC phase shifter) that branches out and powers the satellite transformers individually ...or in 2 quads.
Anyway, 2 phases are enough to create a rotating field and only three direct wires are required for that.

I'm thinking that 2 wires go to the outer coils,
Let's get the naming normalized:
a) One inner central coil (one winding).
b) Eight satellite transformers (two windings each, 16 - total)
c) One outer coil (one winding).
   

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ok, i see. 


Mags
   

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Buy me a cigar
Hmmm….

A nest of DM Cook coils.

Cheers Grum.


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... the secret to OU is to understand that Howard Johnson was right. ...

Claiming to know the “secret to OU” without being able to provide even a single example, it’s about people becoming too big for his boots. The only secret to know is that Howard Johnson is part of the urban legends — a hoax or a scam. No one was able to produce a working model based on his patent—not even he, most likely. That’s why throughout his life he kept paying his electricity bill or had the gullible investors who believed him pay it for him. It’s time to move on instead of rehashing these old crazy stories.



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Quote
Phase changes to date, regardless of their field, have not been able to provide free energy
Really, what about Heat Pumps??Well that Korean Company have produced notarial certificated data of exactly this even though they don't really know how their system works.

Smudge

What do you see as “free” about a heat pump? You have to pay for the electricity. I'm in the process of replacing a boiler for a vacation home, and I'm going with a gas one, because even though gas is expensive, it still costs less than an electric heat pump.
And even if we recover more thermal energy than electrical energy, the system is incapable of sustaining itself. If it could sustain itself, it would be a Maxwell’s demon. We can’t rule out that possibility, but so far no one has succeeded. So we still have nothing for free, not even by drawing on thermal energy from the environment.
Given the number of announcements made in the past —similar to this one from the Korean company— that came to nothing, do you really think it’s reasonable to treat it as if it were a supporting argument?
« Last Edit: 2026-03-13, 20:29:44 by F6FLT »


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All of that implies that high frequencies were more likely to have been used in this device.
The higher the frequency of current flowing in these windings the less likely it is that the windings contain any bulk metal inside them.
Slotted metal tubes might be acceptable at low frequencies but at the stipulated power levels and high frequencies (even kHz) any bulk metal in these "electro-magnets"/transformers = inductive furnace.

I wrote "transformers" because only transformers have primary and secondary windings and that newspaper quote mentioned two windings in one "electro-magnet" and explicitly named them "primary" and "secondary".  Such arrangement constitutes a transformer.

Ok, now my theory, or at least a part I can tell you.
Yes, you are completle right . Those groups of 8 electromagnets are self-sustained air core transformers. In other way it has no sense. Like in Tesla notes his receivers were simple coils or transformers. That statement about 8 of them is a trick to hide the principle IMHO. Not group but 8 groups. They produce pulsating magnetic field. In fact it is similiar to TPU. Lots of them. Dig the available documentations. Well, you didn't find the correct article....
   

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Those groups of 8 electromagnets are self-sustained air core transformers.
Yes, according to that sketch they could be air-core or Bakelite-core, too ...but not bulk steel pipe cores nor steel rod cores (...unless DC).




Well, you didn't found the correct article....
What is the correct one ?
I was using this.
   

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A nest of DM Cook coils.
How are they supposed to work ?
   
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Verpies

All those documents from 1956 or 1983 are attempts to replicate Hubbard device. For me they are hoaxes. In those periods there were no Tesla transmitters, and I'm pretty sure Hubbard device (as he had said also) is based on radio principle but using Tesla radio waves with energy. Just find press articles from 20-ties when Hubbard presented his device. All is there to support or decline my theory. His device just amplified energy from Tesla radio waves.
   
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I have seen Tesla notes about his receivers and some of them were tuned circuits but some were just a coil connected to ground in two places. Something I guess about tapping longitudinal waves in Earth.
   

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All those documents from 1956 or 1982 are attempts to replicate Hubbard device. For me they are hoaxes.
These are strong words which do not account for replications based on benevolent misinterpretations.  They could be no more malevolent than Unimmortal's misguided attempt.

Just find press articles from 20-ties when Hubbard presented his device.
What's wrong with the Seattle Post Intelligencer article to which I had posted the link ?

His device just amplified energy from Tesla radio waves.
...I have seen Tesla notes about his receivers and some of them were tuned circuits but some were just a coil connected to ground in two places. Something I guess about tapping longitudinal waves in Earth.
Longitudinal waves of what ?
Amplify how ?
   
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These are strong words which do not account for benevolent misinterpretations.  They could be no more malevolent than Unimmortal's attempt.
What's wrong with the Seattle Post Intelligencer article to which I had posted the link ?
Longitudinal waves of what ?
Amplify how ?

The amplification is the secret behind Hubbard (and other) devices.Those Tesla radio waves are in fact disturbances in Earth magnetic field. That's why "the priests" of free energy movement like Tom Bearden called it longitudinal waves. Again I urge you to find other articles, they prove my theory.Not 8 coils. Lot's of coils, air core.
   
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Today I know only one person who recreated Hubbard technology. Zimbabwe inventor.  O0
   

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Those Tesla radio waves are in fact disturbances in Earth magnetic field.
Any disturbance in Earth's magnetic field would induce EMF in any loop or helical coil.
I have receivers sensitive down to nV - loops/coils connected to it pick up only radio stations and in urbanized areas - EMI and ENFs.

Again I urge you to find other articles, they prove my theory.
There are no other articles from these times to be found besides the one I had posted the link to.
   

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Really, what about Heat Pumps??Well that Korean Company have produced notarial certificated data of exactly this even though they don't really know how their system works.

Smudge
What do you see as “free” about a heat pump? You have to pay for the electricity.
Indeed you do pay priced at some unit cost per unit of electrical energy.  You can convert said unit of electrical energy into a unit of heat energy at close to 100% efficiency to heat your house.  Or you can drive a heat pump with COP>1 to get more heat energy where the excess can be considered as "free". 
Quote
I'm in the process of replacing a boiler for a vacation home, and I'm going with a gas one, because even though gas is expensive, it still costs less than an electric heat pump.
You say gas is expensive but here in the UK it is a quarter of the price of electricity.  And the installation cost for a gas boiler is far less than that for a heat pump, so if I were faced with your problem I would do what you are doing.
Quote
And even if we recover more thermal energy than electrical energy, the system is incapable of sustaining itself. If it could sustain itself, it would be a Maxwell’s demon.
Yes, because the heat pump only gives out thermal energy.  But if we had an efficient means for converting environmental thermal energy into electrical energy would that be a Maxwell demon?
Quote
We can’t rule out that possibility, but so far no one has succeeded. So we still have nothing for free, not even by drawing on thermal energy from the environment.
Given the number of announcements made in the past —similar to this one from the Korean company— that came to nothing, do you really think it’s reasonable to treat it as if it were a supporting argument?
I see nothing wrong with the concept of a system that extracts environment heat energy, converts it to electrical energy, with a COP>1.

Smudge
   
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Smudge
Quote
You say gas is expensive but here in the UK it is a quarter of the price of electricity.  And the installation cost for a gas boiler is far less than that for a heat pump, so if I were faced with your problem I would do what you are doing.

What are your gas and electrical rates where you are?. AI say's the UK is around $0.4167/kWh for power and $27/GJ for gas. I find this hard to believe and in Alberta I'm paying $0.12/kWh for power and $3/GJ for gas. All prices are in CAD dollars and 1 GigaJoule = 277.78 kWh.

Where I am natural gas is about 91% cheaper than power when comparing costs per kWh. Which sounds about right and my guesstimate was 10:1 before checking the prices.
« Last Edit: 2026-03-15, 21:24:29 by Allcanadian »


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   

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Smudge
What are your gas and electrical rates where you are?. AI say's the UK is around $0.4167/kWh for power and $27/GJ for gas. I find this hard to believe and in Alberta I'm paying $0.12/kWh for power and $3/GJ for gas. All prices are in CAD dollars and 1 GigaJoule = 277.78 kWh.

Where I am natural gas is about 91% cheaper than power when comparing costs per kWh. Which sounds about right and my guesstimate was 10:1 before checking the prices.
My latest bill shows gas at 6.02p/kWh and electricity at 22.39p/kWh so a ratio of 3.72 there (100p=£1).  Those prices are capped by the UK government.  I am on a fixed rate contract that expires in June and the big concern here is the UK reliance on imported gas that is severely affected by the war in the Middle East.  Also the UK store of gas is measured in days so it seems a crisis is looming.  Our government is trying to move everybody away from gas, pushing households towards heat pumps.  My granddaughter does not have a gas supply and is reliant on oil deliveries where the war has caused her oil costs to more than double.

Smudge
   
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Smudge
Quote
My latest bill shows gas at 6.02p/kWh and electricity at 22.39p/kWh so a ratio of 3.72 there (100p=£1).  Those prices are capped by the UK government.  I am on a fixed rate contract that expires in June and the big concern here is the UK reliance on imported gas that is severely affected by the war in the Middle East.  Also the UK store of gas is measured in days so it seems a crisis is looming.  Our government is trying to move everybody away from gas, pushing households towards heat pumps.  My granddaughter does not have a gas supply and is reliant on oil deliveries where the war has caused her oil costs to more than double.

Thanks, so the AI estimate at around $0.4167/kWh for power and $27/GJ for gas was pretty close.

I'm not a big fan of air-air heat pumps but did a lot of calculations and design on enhanced heat pumps. For example, we cover a southern exposure with flat black vented soffit and the heat pump pulls intake air from behind the soffit. The sun heats the air on the surface of the soffit, is pulled through the holes in the soffit and this solar heat is added to the heat pump input. Extra heat can also be added by pulling warmer air from an attic space. It only works during the day but can easily double the COP.

I have no problem with alternative energy and I was into it before it became fashionable. My father built our house on the farm with a Trombe wall 45 years ago so I grew up with alternative energy. He used eight 4'x8' solar thermal panels using flat black soffit under double pane glass. The hot air was blown through 4" ducts in the concrete floor/thermal mass which kept the house warm all night. Our heating bill was 95% less than everyone else running a gas forced air furnace. I thought it was normal to have a $100 annual heating bill, lol.

I suspect my experience growing up is why I never found alternative or free energy all that difficult. The notion of environmental energy was normal and natural to me from a young age.




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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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...
I see nothing wrong with the concept of a system that extracts environment heat energy, converts it to electrical energy, with a COP>1.

Smudge

I agree in principle. The problem is that you cited the heat pump as a source of free energy, yet this energy is not currently free; you have to use electricity to extract energy from the environment, and the COP is currently so poor that it works out more expensive than gas. The theory, even though it has not proven that all Maxwell’s demons are impossible (only certain types), has not proven their possibility either, so the whole thing remains highly hypothetical.
« Last Edit: 2026-03-16, 15:53:35 by F6FLT »


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"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   
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