Air Coils

[aussieaussieaussie]

Just interested in your thoughts here:

What if you removed all the iron from a motor, aka removed the iron cores from all the windings?

What would happen if you tried to build a TPU type system with an Air core instead of micrometals iron powder core?

What are the main differences between Air/plastic/ceramic VS Iron Core in both motors and toroids?

What happens when you build a transformer with no Iron?

Your enlightenment on this subject would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Ozy

[poynt99]

 

You may want to start with some transformer theory.

.99

[Chet]

Funny thing Ozy,

I had someone say the very same thing recently,She intimated that this was a big deal aircores
And no iron?
Chet

[giantkiller]

Tesla coils are empty.

[aussieaussieaussie]

Ok Thanks so far, but was hoping someone would take the time to explain fully.

The whole principle of no iron, doesn't work in my mind, but I wanted someone to tell me for certain - I thought this would be the place.
When I first had a read, it sounded good - as of course there are many air core coils around. But why wouldn't it be used often in TPU, Bedini etc?

@Ramset,
I think we have been talking to the same lady.. haha!

@Giantkiller,
I know Tesla coils are empty... so why all these people who say they are following tesla put a lot of iron inside?


What problems would arise if you used a 12v motor to drive a generator that was all air coils?


Any help would be great!

Ozy

[aussieaussieaussie]

You may want to start with some transformer theory.

.99

I had a good read already and another quick one. I think my question still remains valid.

TPU's are using higher then 20khz, therefore why would they use iron cores?

I think Bob Boyce recommended a Micrometals Iron powder core with Silver / teflon coated wires.

What am I missing?

ozy

[gyula]

Maybe pondering on permeability values of different matters could give some approach to your questions?

An air core coil 'sees'  matter inside and outside with a permeability of 1, hence flux has no reson to attract or repel to anything.
Here you may consider using iron wire instead of copper: then the very vicinity of the air coil includes a ferromagnetic material with permeability much higher than air, flux will be very much confined with respect to copper wire air core coil, no?

And then you put low permeability powder iron into the air core coil, you get again a flux-collected situation because most of the flux would prefer to 'propagate' inside the soft iron core and much less flux will be 'strayed' if you compare this to air core coil.

Now all this influences the quality factor, Q of the air core coil, meaning here the use of silver coated wire: the goal is to reduce losses.
(Notice that the more flux goes outside of the air core coil i.e. gets strayed', the less Q you get, if you lose flux you get more loss.)

On the other hand, air cored transformers do exist and used anywhere from some MHz frequencies up to microwaves, mainly for power transfer,  and in these cases resonance for such coils are often utilized too (I am not an expert on these, sorry). A google search with HF air core transformer brings many hits.

[Chet]

Ozy
Yes I believe you are right [lady],I see you got as far as I did.

Confused ,actually a state of mind that comes easy to me with these matters!

I asked ION some things about this {privately],and he felt she is Confused [measurements]
But it still nags at me.
She said we could share this with peeps we trust,[some  of those here]
Perhaps if we could understand WTHeck she's talking about ,we could actually share it?

Gotta go .....................
Chet
PS
I did have one idea about asking her how she "tests",so we can use the same "technique" to see
the goods in our experiments ,and then bounce her Technique off the fellahs here.

[poynt99]

I had a good read already and another quick one. I think my question still remains valid.

TPU's are using higher then 20khz, therefore why would they use iron cores?

I think Bob Boyce recommended a Micrometals Iron powder core with Silver / teflon coated wires.

What am I missing?

ozy

ozy,

I believe the first part of the confusion lies in the use of the acronym "TPU". I believe I speak for most folks here involved in TPU research at some time in the last 4 years or more, when I say that "TPU" refers only to Steven Mark's devices, and as far as is known, they were all air-core, except for the toroidal component used in 2 or 3 of the units.

Bob's devices are different, and I personally don't refer to them as "TPUs".

That should help clear up some of your questions.

.99

[Chet]

Ozy
This Air core/coil thing and claims of OU ,We need to pursue this ![with you know who]
If for no other reason than to get the measurement issue resolved,
And if its real ,to get busy!

Chetkremens@gmail.com