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Author Topic: Simplicity  (Read 39023 times)
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However, if your cylindrical magnet was actually a can containing a motor driving a charged sphere, then the field magnitude at any point around the magnet would change value as the magnet's rotation speed adds to or subtracts from the internal motor's speed!!

Smudge

I agree and have already thought about this question, thinking that rotating a magnet around its magnetic axis could increase or decrease the magnetic field, depending on whether the rotation was in the same or opposite direction to the spin.

This is the result of an oversimplification.

Firstly, spin is not a classical rotation. You can't mechanically generate a spin 1/2. And if we model the electron by a rotation of charges, given its radius, the charges should move faster than light.
But let's suppose that, despite this, we insist on making the analogy with a rotation. Then spin would appear as a rotation at billions of rd/s, making the effect of any mechanical rotation completely negligible and inaccessible to measurement.


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Firstly, spin is not a classical rotation. You can't mechanically generate a spin 1/2. And if we model the electron by a rotation of charges, given its radius, the charges should move faster than light.
But let's suppose that, despite this, we insist on making the analogy with a rotation. Then spin would appear as a rotation at billions of rd/s, making the effect of any mechanical rotation completely negligible and inaccessible to measurement.
Agreed.  Atomic orbital electrons do have a calculable rotation rate and they also create some of the magnet's field.  They don't move faster than light but again the effect of any mechanical rotation is completely negligible.  One can ask the question, are there slower electron circular orbits, like cyclotron generated, that would allow the mechanical effect to be present?
   
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If the electron travels along a circular path of greater radius than its own, the tangential velocity of the charge will predominate in generating the magnetic field.
We wouldn't be testing a variation in the electron's rotation on itself, but a variation in the rotation on this circular path. This is where we enter classical physics. Since we know that a rotating charged ring generates a (measurable) magnetic field, it's clear that a mechanical rotation would increase or reduce the magnetic field of a coaxial circular current. If the circular current is not coaxial with the mechanical rotation, the calculations would be more complex, but the effect would most likely still be there.


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Firstly, spin is not a classical rotation.
Notice that you take the spin for granted without an explanation, i.e. magically.

You can't mechanically generate a spin 1/2. And if we model the electron by a rotation of charges, given its radius, the charges should move faster than light.
Notice that you take charges for granted without an explanation, i.e. magically, too.
How do you explain the mechanical torque in Einstein de Haas effect and this ?
   
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@Verpies

Your comments are really bizarre. On the one hand, they have nothing to do with what I've written, which is conventional, even spin is defined mathematically, and on the other hand, evoking one subject is not the same as denying others that are more or less related, such as the conservation of angular momentum and the Einstein-de Haas effect.

I only said that the mechanical rotation of a magnet added to the electronic spin would not be detectable, assuming that this addition of a classical effect to a quantum effect makes sense, which is doubtful.
And then I said that the rotation of a current loop would change the magnetic field it generates. In fact, I realize that this is only true if the mechanical rotation involves only electrons, not positive charges, otherwise the effects would cancel each other out. It's a truism.

All physics is surprising, but that doesn't make it magic. If there is magic, it doesn't come from me, but from those who suggest it in the unknown or in reinterpreted conventional phenomena.


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@Verpies
Your comments are really bizarre. On the one hand, they have nothing to do with what I've written, which is conventional, even spin is defined mathematically,
It might seem that way to you because you conflate mathematical coherence with conceptual correctness.

However the fact is that you use certain crutch ideas just like other members of this forum whom you have criticized for using other crutch ideas, such as the magnetic flux.
   
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@Verpies

These are not crutch ideas, but those linked to what we know. What would be contrary to the basics of physics in what I've written? What would be wrong?
A current is charges that move, whether by mechanical or electrical means: they are C/s. By definition.
As for spin, it's "a Hermitian vector operator with three components, usually noted Ŝx, Ŝy, Ŝz by reference to the three axes of Cartesian coordinates usable in physical space. These components are observables verifying the commutation relations characteristic of a kinetic moment...". Spin is nothing else. Don't expect me to elaborate, it's beyond me, but when we talk about spin, that's what we should master. What's certain is that it's not a simple current loop. By definition.

Unlike free energy, which in theory is always at its starting point, nothingness (and in practice, too), science is knowledge that is built up. This doesn't mean that there are no unknowns, but that we make progress by building on what we know. I've only used what's known, and what I've written is refutable.


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A current is charges that move, whether by mechanical or electrical means: they are C/s. By definition.
Here you are defining current in terms of electric charges and motion, but you are treating these two concepts axiomatically (i.e. on faith and magically).  You also establish a relationship between them using the mathematical division operator ...but this mathematical relationship in no way explains what a charge is (nor motion) ...even if the relationship is correct.  Oh, you can quote me Lorentz equations and Maxwell equations that quantitatively define the behavior of these charges in electric an magnetic fields more precisely, but that increased mathematical correctness in no way explains what a charge is and additionally you are forced to drag in auxiliary crutches such as force fields - consequently you are not any better off conceptually.  Making "conventional" statements according to the Standard Model does not help either.  This is especially evident when considering the irreducible units of the SI system, The SM's "fundamental" forces and particles as well as the physical objectification of space that is endowed with bendable properties.


Unlike free energy, which in theory is always at its starting point, nothingness (and in practice, too), science is knowledge that is built up. This doesn't mean that there are no unknowns, but that we make progress by building on what we know.
I realize that every theoretical system needs to rely on a set of magical assumptions (axioms) but the more of them you allow, the less that theory elucidates.
Scientific knowledge, indeed is built up on these axioms but I see no effort from you to reduce their number ...and you cannot progress. 

I've only used what's known, and what I've written is refutable.
It's excellent that what you've written is refutable but notice that it is also not progressive.  You are stuck in the ruts of the Standard Model, taking the "conventional" concepts like: charge, mass, "fundamental" forces (and the spatial fields of theses forces), motion, objects (particles) and building on these concepts using mathematical relationships between them which seem to justify to you the conceptual fundamentalism and correctness of these concepts.

I have observed you criticizing other members of this forum for using other conceptual crutches, often leading to their resignation, so when I see you doing the same under the umbrella of towing the conventional "Standard Model"'s line, I can't help but notice the parallels between the pot and the kettle calling themselves black.  I usually keep quiet and let them defend themselves but eventually I can't help but notice that you are better educated and more intelligent than the members you criticize and they don't stand a chance against you.  That does not makes you right, but it does make them quiet.

As for spin, it's "a Hermitian vector operator with three components, usually noted Ŝx, Ŝy, Ŝz by reference to the three axes of Cartesian coordinates usable in physical space. These components are observables verifying the commutation relations characteristic of a kinetic moment...".
That is the raw mathematical model that relies on the presupposition of the Cartesian reference system and kinetic moment and as such it does not explain much without the origin of these concepts.

Don't expect me to elaborate, it's beyond me, ...
I do not expect you to elaborate mathematically, but I do expect you to elaborate conceptually.

Spin is nothing else.
If it is nothing else than it is purely mathematical, has no origin nor physical significance, in other words - a virtual crutch, similar to virtual particles and dark energy (which come with a lot of math attached, too).

What's certain is that it's not a simple current loop.
I also think it is not a current loop ...but what is it then?  Providing the mathematical expression does not elucidate it conceptually.
I could give you an answer on a plate but I don't think you will accept it without coming to the same conclusion yourself.

   

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Here you are defining current in terms of electric charges and motion, but you are treating these two concepts axiomatically (i.e. on faith and magically).  You also establish a relationship between them using the mathematical division operator ...but this mathematical relationship in no way explains what a charge is (nor motion) ...even if the relationship is correct. 

Definition :
"An electric current is a flow of charged particles"
"In the International System of Units (SI), electric current is expressed in units of ampere (sometimes called an "amp", symbol A), which is equivalent to one coulomb per second."
These are definitions, and I use them. I don't have to specify that every current is accompanied by a magnetic field, which I use implicitly, because it's all part of the basics of physics.
I'm talking to people who speak of “magnetic field” or “spin”, so a priori they know the definitions, the context and understand me, otherwise what are they talking about? If they don't know the basics of physics, they shouldn't talk about “magnetic field” or ‘spin’ but about “snake oil” or “spinning top” and define their objects themselves.

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Oh, you can quote me Lorentz equations and Maxwell equations that quantitatively define the behavior of these charges in electric an magnetic fields more precisely, but that increased mathematical correctness in no way explains what a charge is
...

Let me stop you right there. What a charge "is" is not a scientific question. This idea is based on two errors of reasoning that the philosophy of science explains very well.
The charge IS only the scientific concept that defines it. To impose an imaginary object on it, supposed to be real, independent and possibly different from the definition, is unscientific and, I would add, illogical, since the concept of charge comes only from those who have characterised and defined it.
Physics characterises or models observations, never what things would really be, assuming they exist, since outside of observations, whether direct or indirect, we have no access to them!

So when there is ambiguity, the mathematical definitions that you criticise me for using instead of concepts take precedence over the concepts. The proof is in quantum mechanics, where the concepts compatible with the theory are multiform (Everett theory, ITQM, MQR, Copenhagen interpretation, etc.) whereas the mathematical formalism is unique and works perfectly well for describing observations.

As we are looking here for a technology, free or cheap energy, and as I know of no technology without science, and as I see everyone using concepts from science, such as ‘field’ or ‘spin’, I also place myself in the domain of the physical sciences when I answer. I therefore ask everyone who uses scientific terms to justify what they claim is contrary to what is known in science. Conversely, I don't demand any justification if what I'm told is already well established in scientific knowledge and I'm not asked to do so either - I'm not a teacher.
We can, and indeed must, make hypotheses that may even be extravagant in order to move forward, and discuss them, but which are not incompatible with what we already know, a matter of pure logic.
That's what I'm trying to do here


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It's excellent that what you've written is refutable but notice that it is also not progressive.  You are stuck in the ruts of the Standard Model, taking the "conventional" concepts like: charge, mass, "fundamental" forces (and the spatial fields of theses forces), motion, objects (particles) and building on these concepts using mathematical relationships between them which seem to justify to you the conceptual fundamentalism and correctness of these concepts.

You nailed it imo.
Many people use the fallacy fallacy or argument for normalcy to justify their perspective. This also relates to the bandwagon fallacy or appeal to popularity. However new scientific discoveries are being made every day which are not normal or popular. As such the argument for normalcy doesn't hold water.

I realized the science was flawed early on when my research specialized around very high voltage, electrostatics and plasma effects. This area is basically a black hole and 99% of people don't understand it. It made sense to me that the least understood area could produce more new insights. Now I'm consulting and when all my EE friends have HV problems they come to me.

AC



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https://brilliantlightpower.com/reactionless-propulsion/
What the strange site is? :D

Randell Mills, I used to follow him because of his promising hydrino theory. And here he is, switching to reactionless propulsion, even though he still hasn't marketed a single electricity generator in over 15 years?! I'm very disappointed in this guy. And his investors too, no doubt. They need something new to motivate them, I guess.


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...
I realized the science was flawed early on when my research...

[irony on]That's probably why everyone today uses NNTT (New Nikola Tesla Technology) electric generators, the result of a revolutionary new technology based on a new science, and not coal-fired power plants, solar panels, wind turbines, hydroelectric generators or atomic power plants, the result of the science of those idiots like Newton, Ampère, Carnot, Kelvin, Einstein, Bohr, Maxwell, Schrödinger or Dirac.[irony off]. ;D

To show us that science is flawed, you'd have to show us right science, and what you can do with it. For the moment, all I see is blah, blah, blah.



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The answer to this question has been known for a long time. By definition, a field is only a vector at one position in space.  If its intensity and direction are constant, by definition it does not rotate, since it is static. This is the case when a cylindrical magnet rotates around its magnetic axis; the field remains constant everywhere.

...

Quote
With a magnetic field, it's the same thing. The field is created by the magnetic dipoles of its source. As with the lamp, there is a source. It can be modelled as an emitter of virtual photons that mediate the field. The virtual photons originate from the source, so they do not rotate tangentially somewhere in space.


I agree that if the magnetic field of a magnet rotating on its magnetic axis is modeled (defined) using vectors, and if those vectors remain constant (static), one might consider the field to be stationary.  This is similar to looking at an optically perfect mirrored sphere while it is spinning on an axis, as just looking at that sphere would offer no sense of its rotation. 

However, I disagree with your statement that "a field is only a vector at one position in space".  A magnetic field (or any field) is a modified region of space that can be described using vectors, but that modified region of space is not made up of imaginary vectors anymore than a mountain is just a sheet of paper with contour lines drawn upon it.

I am amazed by the advancements achieved in all fields of science and engineering over my lifetime.   With regard to the study of magnetic fields and particle physics, the ability to predict and design based on the mathematical models currently in use is simply amazing.  I make no argument against that math, nor am I even qualified to do so.  That the mathematical models are correct, for the most part, is readily proven by the ability to predict and design based on those models.

However, just as a mountain is not a contour map, the world is most likely not just a bunch of math on a chalkboard.

The current, rather layman like, understanding of the world around us is that the “empty space” we are surrounded by and immersed in is actually a world filled with quantum fields.  The “real” particles we observe within those fields are said to be specific excitations of and within those fields.  The “virtual” particles you mentioned, which are in many ways similar to their “real” particle counterpart, are also just specific excitations of the same fields, but they are deficient in one or more aspect of the excitations of “real” particles.   The greater these deficiencies are, the shorter the lifetime or effectual range these virtual particles will possess. 

Virtual particles may not even exist, as no one has detected or observed one to date.  They are, for the most part, a convenient mathematical tool, and in some ways are similar to renormalization.  Lattice theory or QCD appears to do just fine without invoking virtual particles, but for now, let's assume that “something” similar to virtual particles actually exists.

So, based on the above, and again in rather layman like terms, we live in a universe where empty space is actually said to be filled with quantum fields.  The particles we observe sparsely scattered about within that “empty space” are merely specific excitations of those quantum fields and those particles can themselves produce (reflect or re-radiate, if you will) additional excitations of the quantum fields from which those particles are constructed by way of what we call virtual particles. 

The matter we observe that is constructed from these particles is said to contain only a tiny volume of the total volume of space occupied by that matter, with the bulk of that volume (to a very high percentage) being just “empty space”, or, as defined above, the quantum fields.   

An electron, for example, could be considered a point in space where specific excitations of the quantum field converge in such a way as to produce a region of space that produces, via virtual particles (reflections or re-radiations), modification of the surrounding space (quantum fields) such that we observe the characteristics we assign to that electron (spin, charge, etc).  It is also believed that, in agreement with the uncertainty principle, that point in space where the fields converge to produce that electron are not static, but rather noisey in that the electron may or may not actually exist in any specific location at any point in time.

With regard to a magnet, we can invoke all manner of discussion with regard to unpaired electrons, domains, virtual particles, dipoles and the like, but it may be wise to consider that what is “inside” the magnet and what is “outside” the magnet are in reality the same thing, differing only with regard to specific excitations of that same thing (ie, the quantum fields).

It is difficult to not visualize the quantum fields as being a multitude of sine waves of various frequencies, phases and amplitudes radiating through space from all directions such that they constructively add or destructively interfere with each other to the degree that what remains is just a backround noise floor we might refer to as zero point energy.  Those sine waves could contain all manner of frequencies and amplitudes (energy) such that with a sufficient, or near infinite, amount of constructive or destructive interference, could appear as just a low level background noise or an undetectable bias which may actually contain a large, possibly infinite, amount of “energy”.   

It is also difficult to not visualize the convergence of a specific set of those sine waves of specific frequencies, phases, and energies (quanta) forming a region in space that defines a particle (electron, etc) which is able to re-radiate or reflect surplus (or unneeded) energy impinging on that defined area of space (electron. etc) such that the space surrounding that defined region of space (electron, etc) is modified to produce the properties we observe when other similarly defined regions of space are brought in proximity to the original region.  The empty space surrounding these defined regions of space (particles, etc) are the source of “energy” that both creates and sustains these regions with the re-radiations or reflections by these regions (virtual particles) themselves also modifying the surrounding space.  We detect these modified regions of space when we attempt to position two such regions in proximity (ie, two particles brought into proximity for example) and observe phenomena we define as being the various forces (for example).

When I consider a magnet and its surrounding field, it is difficult to not visualize a mostly “empty” region of space which is locked in a convergence of the fields within that empty space such that the “sources” of the magnetic field and the “magnetic field” itself are locked together in a sort of feedback loop or standing wave that both sustains the “source” and produces the properties observed external to that “source”. 

To me, a simple layman, the above discussion makes more sense than to model a magnet (or dipole) as if it were some sort of isolated or independent “thing” itself possessing unlimited energy capable of forever radiating virtual photons in a fashion similar to a lamp's filament emitting photons.

In my imagineering, the magnet and its surrounding field are locked together in an inextricable fashion such that whatever changes within one affects the other. 

Given that there is a lot more “empty space” then there is “matter”, it seems naive at best to ignore “empty space” and consider “matter” as being the major contributor to all that is.  To me, it seems as though we have learned to define the world as one might the negative of an image, such that the math is wholly (or mostly) quite accurate in describing the interactions of the minor players while ignoring "empty space" as one might the so called elephant in the room.

We assign physical properties to "empty space", such as its permittivity and refractive index, but tend to ignore it as a real entity.  The pre-Einstein world seemed mostly concerned with what makes up "empty space" while the post-Einstein world decided we could describe everything mathematically without needing whatever "empty space" actually is.  But now, as we have defined "empty" space as being filled with "something", and with the apparent puzzle of missing energy and matter (as in dark), perhaps we are coming full circle.


Having spent my single digit years (a long time ago) concurrently reading science texts from both the 1800's and 1950's, in response to a 6th grade quiz regarding what matter is according Bohr's model of the atom, I responded with the following:

“Everything” is made of “nothing”.  All “nothing” is almost “something”.  There are two kinds of “nothing”, organized “nothing” and disorganized “nothing”.  Everything I know may be wrong...

Apologies for the long winded response,

PW
   
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[irony on]That's probably why everyone today uses NNTT (New Nikola Tesla Technology) electric generators, the result of a revolutionary new technology based on a new science, and not coal-fired power plants, solar panels, wind turbines, hydroelectric generators or atomic power plants, the result of the science of those idiots like Newton, Ampère, Carnot, Kelvin, Einstein, Bohr, Maxwell, Schrödinger or Dirac.[irony off]. ;D

I'm surprised you don't see the connection of plasma physics and clean energy to Nikola Tesla. The name tends to come up because Tesla was a pioneer in HV electricity ie. Plasma science, electromagnetic fields and resonant systems. Also because Tesla was a firm believer in clean, limitless energy. This is literally what the best plasma and fusion scientists on the cutting edge of technology are trying to do.

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To show us that science is flawed, you'd have to show us right science, and what you can do with it. For the moment, all I see is blah, blah, blah.

From ChatGPT, Plasma physics is full of unknowns and one of the most complex and least understood branches of physics, especially when applied to fusion. Even though we've made major progress, there are still many unknowns that scientists are actively working to unravel. Plasma is a highly nonlinear system.
It behaves more like weather than a solid or liquid — turbulent, unstable, and sensitive to tiny disturbances. Plasmas can spontaneously develop instabilities.


Which agrees with what I said earlier. HV and plasma physics is the most complex and least understood branches of physics. So it only makes sense that this area of science would relate to many new technologies and discoveries.

AC





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As food for thought regarding my last post, or just some fun entertainment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odJxJRAxdFU

PW
   
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I'm surprised you don't see the connection of plasma physics and clean energy to Nikola Tesla.
...

Well I'm not surprised you see what I don't see. I'm not very sensitive to illusions.


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...
Apologies for the long winded response,
...

Don't apologize, I find your response very interesting, stemming from a curiosity of mind quite in line with the philosophic and scientific spirit, and I share many of your points of view, for example particles such as the electron as quantum field nodes of a vacuum that is not empty.
I'm only going to respond to the possible points of divergence. I see two categories:
1) the question of map and territory
2) the question of mathematizing the theory to compare it with measurements.

In case 1, I put your statement:
"A magnetic field (or any field) is a modified region of space that can be described using vectors, but that modified region of space is not made up of imaginary vectors...".

Mathematical definitions are the only operational data. What we do know is that by modeling electromagnetic effects with vector fields, we can predict events and quantify them. This is the "map". These fields are well defined on the map, and only they are defined. What the influenced space is "really" made up of (and assuming the existence of a reality independent of what we see of it), we don't know. You're talking about the "territory". That the region is "modified", as you say, is possible, but the field model doesn't say so, and we don't have any others. On the other hand, it does say that the fields simply superpose, and that's enough to correctly describe what we're observing.

Having said that, of course you have the right, as does every physicist, to go beyond the field model, in which case you can improve the map, but without ever having access to the territory. A small step was taken with the notion of the virtual photon, notably with Feynman. Virtual photons are not radiated, but exchanged. If, as you say, they are not directly detected or observed, they are indirectly, and necessary to explain phenomena such as the tunel effect or to calculate light/matter interactions, a question of energy levels. If you're interested in the constitution of the quantum vacuum, the appearances and disappearances of particle/antiparticle pairs in the vacuum are perfectly consistent with the notion of the virtual photon. Just because they're “virtual” doesn't mean they're not real.

Now we come to case 2. Even if, as you say, and everyone agrees, a region of space is not a field of mathematical vectors, it is through these fields that science models what we observe, and in a precise way, i.e. through calculations that we can confront with measured values. One of the rules of science is to take the trouble to verify the theory by comparing it with observations and measurements. Math is therefore unavoidable when it comes to verifying a theory, since you have to put numbers to it. You can imagine anything to describe a region of space or quantum vacuum “modified” by the field of a magnet, but if you don't provide anything to quantitatively verify your idea, it will remain vain, unfounded, in short a simple hypothesis like hundreds of others. Imagining, as Einstein did, what he would “see” if he were moving at the speed of light, can be a contructive starting point, just as with your “modified” space. But you have to go far beyond the idea. As long as you haven't succeeded, for Einstein's idea, in establishing the constancy of space-time intervals for all observers, and the evidence of the Lorentz transforms that follow from this and enable relativistic effects to be verified by calculation and comparison with measurements, it will have been useless, and nothing then authorizes you to suppose that your idea of a modified space would be more relevant than that of vector fields.

Finally, to return to the subject at hand, even if you managed to produce a mathematical and quantized theoretical version of a quantum space “modified” by a magnetic field, you'd still have a lot of work to do to demonstrate the rotation of the region when the magnet influencing it rotates (if that's what you're assuming).

One last remark about the permittivity you mention. It's attributed to the vacuum, but to the classical vacuum. Here again, there's nothing to criticize, since the permittivity included in the equations makes it possible to calculate what we measure from observations. It works, so the goal is achieved. Now that we know from QM that the vacuum is not empty, we can go further with the idea that permittivity reflects a certain internal state of particle/antiparticle fluctuations. But as in the other case, the idea is not enough. The idea of the atom appeared centuries before Christ, and was useless for almost 2 millennia. Of all the ideas that appear at any one time, statistically there will always be a few good ones. In science, you have to demonstrate the relevance of the idea and verify it. You've probably got some good ideas, it's just a question of making them operational. In this field, I've never succeeded.  :(




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...is actually a world filled with quantum fields.  The “real” particles we observe within those fields are said to be specific excitations of and within those fields. 
These "quantum fields" are are objects, distortions, turtles, ...what ?

The current, rather layman like, understanding of the world around us is that the “empty space” we are surrounded by and immersed in
That's understandable, that's what human senses indicate to our brains.

Is this "empty space" a real object ?  Is it an object at all ...or is it merely a geometric reference system ?  Can it, does it exist without an observer and observee ?
Can observed angles and delays give us an illusion of this "empty space"  ? 
Notice how the deception of our senses (measurements) gives the appearance of space in games like Call of Duty, No Man’s Sky and GTA, despite that this space does not objectively exist inside the computers that run these games ...and a larger volume of space does not even have to occupy more memory.
   
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These "quantum fields" are are objects, distortions, turtles, ...what ?

Logically, particles, fields and EM waves cannot move through a space without occupying said space. Thus we must conclude space cannot be empty and must be seething with energy in translation. To claim otherwise makes a mockery of the conservation of mass and energy. This is why intelligence is superior to our very limited senses.

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Is this "empty space" a real object ?  Is it an object at all ...or is it merely a geometric reference system ?  Can it, does it exist without an observer and observee ?

AI claims,
Quote
Space is a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction. It can also refer to the area around us that allows for movement and interaction, as well as the region beyond Earth's atmosphere known as outer space.

One clue may be that things on small scales or moving at very high velocity are invisible to us. A bullet sitting on a table is easy to see yet hundreds of bullets flying all around you are invisible. The fact remains that as technology progresses, the closer we look at smaller scales the more we see. Thus we already know the direction this concept of space is going.

As well, the more primitive the person or culture the less they observe and understand. 500 years ago most had no clue anything smaller than a speck of dust could exist and they understood very little. Then as they evolved and developed better technology they learned new things. So again, we already know the direction we are headed based on what has already happened.

Ironically, every generation claimed they understood everything and technology had peaked. As we know, they were just as wrong as most are today. Weird how most keep making the same mistakes as in the past.

AC

 


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Logically, particles, fields and EM waves cannot move through a space without occupying said space. Thus we must conclude space cannot be empty and must be seething with energy in translation.
...

Obviously, if waves are moving through space, it's no longer globally empty. This is a meaningless truism  C.C that scientists understood even in the 19th century.
The question is only whether waves, and perhaps particles too, moving through space, need this medium, i.e. whether they are not in fact what waves generally are: a disturbance of the medium that propagates, so a medium that is obviously not empty even in the absence of waves.
In the 19th century, this medium was called ether. Today, we can imagine that the quantum vacuum is a kind of ether, but we have no serious model of electromagnetic waves as a disturbance of the quantum vacuum.


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Obviously, if waves are moving through space, it's no longer globally empty. This is a meaningless truism  C.C that scientists understood even in the 19th century.
The question is only whether waves, and perhaps particles too, moving through space, need this medium, i.e. whether they are not in fact what waves generally are: a disturbance of the medium that propagates, so a medium that is obviously not empty even in the absence of waves.

I'm not really concerned whether particles and waves need a medium only the total energy density and any possible interactions within a given space. It follows a logical progression of thought.

1)Space cannot be empty because we know it is full of particle and field energy in translation.
2)Since space is saturated with particle and field energy there should be some interactions with matter we can capitalize on.
3)What are the possible ways and means to convert said particle and field energy to a more practical form.

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In the 19th century, this medium was called ether. Today, we can imagine that the quantum vacuum is a kind of ether, but we have no serious model of electromagnetic waves as a disturbance of the quantum vacuum.

In other words, down the rabbit hole. I try to remain focused on energy and energy conversion.

AC


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1)Space cannot be empty because we know it is full of particle and field energy in translation.
...

Once again, either this sentence makes no sense or it's a truism. Obviously, where there are waves or particles, it's no longer a vacuum. A 7-year-old understands that, so there's no need to repeat it.
The relevant questions are: do particles and waves occupy 100% of space, thus constituting themselves a "non-empty vacuum"? If not, is the remaining percentage a real empty vacuum or is there an underlying fabric where there are no particles or waves (but virtual particles, for example)? If this fabric exists, which is probable according to QM, are the waves and particles a disturbance of it?...


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Once again, either this sentence makes no sense or it's a truism. Obviously, where there are waves or particles, it's no longer a vacuum. A 7-year-old understands that, so there's no need to repeat it.

"Space cannot be empty because we know it's full of particles and field energy in translation" is a scientific fact. This may be a truism to you but not to a greater majority of people who believe space/outer space is empty. Many like to deal in absolutes I do not.

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The relevant questions are: do particles and waves occupy 100% of space, thus constituting themselves a "non-empty vacuum"? If not, is the remaining percentage a real empty vacuum or is there an underlying fabric where there are no particles or waves (but virtual particles, for example)? If this fabric exists, which is probable according to QM, are the waves and particles a disturbance of it?...

You need to be more specific, your using the term "vacuum" as a general term but it's implied your referring to an absolute vacuum. Most wouldn't understand the context of what your trying to say.

I think your also confusing the issue of particles and fields/waves. A particle occupies a given space but charged particles have fields which extend much further.

Let's ask an AI. Question, do fields occupy all space beyond matter?.
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Answer, fields do occupy all of space, even the "empty" space beyond and between matter. Fields are not limited to where matter exists. They are defined at every point in spacetime, even in deep space where there is (nearly) no matter.

So we can assume, while particles may not occupy every space the fields related to them do. Ergo, the fabric of all space is the Primary Fields (Electric, Magnetic, Gravic). As T.H.Moray put it, matter floating in a sea of energy.

Logically...
1)All space is full of fields relating to the material source which produced them.
2)All material things are in a state of change.
3)If the material source is perpetually changing then so must the fields radiating from said source.
4)All space constitutes energy because the fields found everywhere in every space are always changing with the source.
5)Ergo, the fabric of space is Field Energy.

The key concepts are, fields do occupy all of space, even the "empty" space beyond and between matter. A field change constitutes energy.

AC



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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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