I started this topic as a holder for the general information on the TPU from Steven and the videos.
Dr. Roland Schinzinger:
http://www.onlineethics.org/about/history/advisory_group_bios/schinzinger_bio.aspx
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/senate/inmemoriam/RolandSchnizinger.htm
TPU - Info from Steven Mark:
http://www.thewaterengine.com/pdf/stevenmarktpu.pdf
I've done some research on Roland Schinzinger. He was mentor to the electric vehicle study group at UCI. he must have known about energy densities kW/kg. He would have been knowledgeable enough to sniff out a fraud in the TPU.
Nevertheless, he ran at least two tests on the device, one at his lab and one at the inventors home. In each case he was mystified and wanted to study the device further.
So much for power line coupling theories or hidden batteries.
From what I can determine Dr. Schinzinger had outstanding credentials, wrote many engineering texts, including a book on "Ethics In Engineering" and seemed to be a very honorable fellow.
We should all make an effort to revive this subject, specifically the two tests by Schinzinger and the engineering report by Michael Fennel.
Then perhaps we can tune in on some of the correspondence of SM to Lindsay.
A little refresher couldn't hurt and might spark some new insights.
Thanks to Grumpy for the kickstart
I hope to rekindle some interest in the device. We know enough now to build it, and also discover some very interesting things along the way.
However, not much is being built and few experiments are being performed.
There are a handful of Michael Fennell's in California.
EDIT:
Michael is a physicist, not an EE. I think I have located him and will call tomorrow.
@Ion
QuoteI've done some research on Roland Schinzinger. He was mentor to the electric vehicle study group at UCI. he must have known about energy densities kW/kg. He would have been knowledgeable enough to sniff out a fraud in the TPU.
Nevertheless, he ran at least two tests on the device, one at his lab and one at the inventors home. In each case he was mystified and wanted to study the device further.
Does it surprise you that most all of the supposed experts are mystified? Does it surprise you that most all of them have literally no idea of how any FE devices could work? I read a neat statement the other day from a PhD---- For every PhD there is an equal and opposite Phd, lol. This should tell you a great deal of the state of what we call science, for instance how can two experts of unquestionable knowledge,experience and credentials (men of science) draw completely different conclusions from identical data and experiments?. If one single person of unquestionable knowledge,experience and credentials is wrong then any one of them can be wrong in which case all their knowledge,experience and credentials count for little as any fool can be wrong about anything. The real issue here is egotism and what we could call the god complex, that is silly delusional people who honestly believe they could not possibly be wrong about anything. It would seem the only people who have found success in this field are the ones who are willing to admit they do not know everything and have an open mind in this regard. Curious people who question everything and anything and who take nothing for granted, I believe milehigh calls them anarchists,lol.
Regards
AC
The Toroidal Power Unit (TPU) is a real device that produces REAL power from the "earth's" magnetic field, which has an inherent magnetic frequency and we tune into it.
Ion, Grumpy:
The TPU section is quite large on this site, I imagine there is much more info elsewhere. Can either of you give me a link to a clip(s) that you think is a good demo and/or explanation? Or perhaps a good link with a digestible amount of text, say less than five pages. If there is a preferred thread around here for talking about this, let me know. I know that Ion has made reference to unexplained anomalies also.
I think I have seen most of the old Steven Mark clips that you can see were done way back on videotape. About two years ago I watched lots of free energy clips.
Please be forewarned, I may not get engaged in the debate. I'm not impressed with the original Steven Mark clips and when I hear people say they can tap into the "energy in the earth's magnetic field" my eyes tend to glaze over. When I see light-bulbs light up, it seems I always see a place to hide the battery. I am quite good at deconstructing clips like that on YouTube.
Thanks,
MileHigh
EMdevices:
I suppose I am executing my programming here, but about your comment:
QuoteThe Toroidal Power Unit (TPU) is a real device that produces REAL power from the "earth's" magnetic field, which has an inherent magnetic frequency and we tune into it.
Can you elaborate on the magnetic frequency statement? What do you mean by "tuning into it?"
The earth's magnetic field relative to an observer on the surface of the earth is for all practical intents and purposes stable and unchanging for both intensity and direction. A DC magnetic field is not very exciting in terms of energy generation, you can't extract any energy from it.
There is a Youtube clip where a guy has a big "earth magnetic field motor":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0RUzDtdZR0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0RUzDtdZR0)
MileHigh
For me the most interesting thing that was given to us was the movement of the Valve filament when first switched on, it tugs, this tug causes premature mechanical failure of the filament.
So why does the filament tug?
Following Spherics instructions on how to find the kick, i have explosion noises from a wire, to me this is the same as the tug on the filament.
Why is the earth magnetic field important, well it's a reference frame.
If you put your hand on a door knob and pull, 2 things can happen, if the door is locked you move towards the door, if the door is unlocked the door moves to you.
Think about the wash board effect of the TPU, all thats happening here is when the kick occurs it locks to the earths reference frame.
The earths magnetic field is locked in place, if a low energy way can be found to cause a very fast moving ripple that tugs against the earth magnetic field then there should be a way to extract this energy, the problem is that i don't think the fast moving ripple is actually a pure magnetic field.
The above is only my view of how i see it, forget about trying to work out how the TPU works or how it was faked, we need to move past that and look for things Physics cannot explain.
I suggest you clever guys concentrate on my explosion in a wire experiment, to do this lets develop a simple circuit that reproduces the effect, build a number of the boards and all study it on our benches.
The effect doesn't need high voltage or high current, the key is 2 fast switched pulses connected to one bifilar coil, i have already found the effect can easily be reproduced by injecting 2 white noise signals in to two nS pulse switches connected to a bifilar coil.
To make this available for all we need a circuit that takes a ttl level pulse from a white noise pic processor converts this to as short as possible low side driver which can switch 50 volts at a max of 2 amps.
I currently use a digital monostable which can vary the pulse width and phase using delay lines, this gives me 0-255nS for width and phase, but using the whitenoise drivers the phase is not needed and because the pulse width does not need to be variable we can do away with this module, so all we need is the switch stage for you all to study the effect i am seeing.
If i can build the boards up for
Poynt,Grumpy,Milehigh,Ion, EMdevices and anyone else interested and start a thread to converse on, maybe we could make some progress, but there is one catch this needs to be open source.
offcourse you all may not be interested.
Just as a reminder here's the video again of my first discovery of the kick.
Note in the above discovery, i was using random triggered fets to create the white noise, i didn't know this at that time.The fast switched transients were causing retriggering of my fet stages.
It is also very likely SM used white or pink noise in his tests of his 3d spacial speaker system, i believe he discovered the kick using these tests on a spectrum analyser.
Quote from: Peterae on 2010.08.20, 09:19:51
For me the most interesting thing that was given to us was the movement of the Valve filament when first switched on, it tugs, this tug causes premature mechanical failure of the filament.
So why does the filament tug?
Following Spherics instructions on how to find the kick, i have explosion noises from a wire, to me this is the same as the tug on the filament.
Why is the earth magnetic field important, well it's a reference frame.
If you put your hand on a door knob and pull, 2 things can happen, if the door is locked you move towards the door, if the door is unlocked the door moves to you.
Think about the wash board effect of the TPU, all thats happening here is when the kick occurs it locks to the earths reference frame.
The earths magnetic field is locked in place, if a low energy way can be found to cause a very fast moving ripple that tugs against the earth magnetic field then there should be a way to extract this energy, the problem is that i don't think the fast moving ripple is actually a pure magnetic field.
The above is only my view of how i see it, forget about trying to work out how the TPU works or how it was faked, we need to move past that and look for things Physics cannot explain.
Einstein–de Haas effect ???
http://www.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de/Studium/F-Praktika/Downloads/Einstein_de_Haas_Juli08.pdf
http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/EinsteinDeHaasEffect/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%E2%80%93de_Haas_effect
or :
http://www.leonardo-energy.org/webfm_send/51
QuoteThe earth's magnetic field relative to an observer on the surface of the earth is for all practical intents and purposes stable and unchanging for both intensity and direction. A DC magnetic field is not very exciting in terms of energy generation, you can't extract any energy from it.
People have claimed that the "Field" is stationary in a axially spinning magnet.
If this is true, then as the as the earth spins , we on the surface, are moving at approximately 1000 mph at the equator through a stationary magnetic field cutting flux linesBut you cannot measure this with a loop, since the signal will be nulled by each half of the loop. A wire vertical antenna at the equator might have a voltage appear at it's ends, but you can't measure it or close the loop, any attempt to do so creates an equal voltage in the measuring device, so we see a null.
SM may have figured out a way to create a spiral vortex of this magnetic field, which then allowed him to tap it's energy.SM said he did not know why his unit (FTPU) would not work upside down. It would seem the impulses to create the vortex were fighting the "coriolis" (if I may use the term loosely) within the device when it was upside down.
As I said before, the implications of this are enormous. Even though it is a weak field, the velocity we are moving through this fixed field is quite fast.
But I'm still on the fence concerning the claim of a static field with axial rotation of the magnet.
QuoteIt is also very likely SM used white or pink noise in his tests of his 3d spacial speaker system, i believe he discovered the kick using these tests on a spectrum analyser.
Back as far as the 60's I did some experiments with slight movements in the frame of a loudspeaker. I noticed an immediate widening of the sound field with a single speaker. The sound field could no longer be localized and seemed to be coming from everywhere in the room. Certainly not 3D, but nevertheless a pronounced spatial effect. Minimizing standing waves in a room certainly creates spatiality.
I then theorized that it would not be necessary to move the frame of the loudspeaker if an additional winding on the voice coil could be arranged to provide a "wobble" to the cone in addition to the normal piston motion.
I believe that SM may have theorized along these same lines, and was experimenting with "
specially made dual voice coil loudspeakers" when he discovered "the effect or kick". (Spheric spoke about this).
I believe what we call the FTPU was perhaps his very first embodiment to explore the anomolous energy. I believe he chose a wire spool and supported the windings on the rim because he expected some flexing or freedom of movement to get the effect, as in a voice coil.
But this was not needed as he later learned it was all happening at a high enough frequency (5kHz) that the wire insulation allowed for tiny movement.
The SM17 core appears to be toroidially wound over two wooden hoops with cork like material sandwiching poloidial wires. The height to width ratio would allow for considerable vibration or "banjo string effect"* of the vertical wires.
These are just my thoughts, not facts.
*I first heard of this descriptive term (LOL) in an engineering reference with regard to potentiometers in the several watt class that were wound with fine wire, an hysteresis effect as the wiper plucked or moved the windings.
I think precise phase delay is more predictable than random noise.
Explosions were also experienced by my 10kv dual gap pulser - very strong and loud but not easy to reproduce.
No offense, but I don't buy the powerline theory and I think the earth's magnetic field was used in early devices, but replaced by coils that generated the necessary bias field. Anything with a magnetic moment will attempt to align with a magnetic field. If a current is present then the "anything" will experience a force perpendicular to the current and the mag field - the Lorentz Force.
If you want to jump in the TPU foray fast, then read the pdf I posted at the beginning and view the long video that has U.E.C letters.
The documents I have found and experiments I have done to date point to a medium underlying everything. Call it "aether", or Dirac's Sea, or just "medium". Regardless of the name, it exists. It can be contracted or expanded. Yes, I am saying that the properties of "vacuum" or "space" can be changed and also that it is not hard to do.
Presume I am correct for the sake of humor if nothing else and ask yourself: What could I do if I could change the properties of space?
Ion:
QuoteIf this is true, then as the as the earth spins , we on the surface, are moving at approximately 1000 mph at the equator through a stationary magnetic field cutting flux lines
But you cannot measure this with a loop, since the signal will be nulled by each half of the loop. A wire vertical antenna at the equator might have a voltage appear at it's ends, but you can't measure it or close the loop, any attempt to do so creates an equal voltage in the measuring device, so we see a null.
As we turn on the earth we may indeed cut magnetic flux lines. But it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is if there is a change in the total magnetic flux going through your loop of wire. In engineering or physics talk, there is no change in flux through the surface integral defined by the loop of wire. A half-loop of wire or a vertical antenna will not produce any EMF either because there is no changing flux.
Peterae:
I haven't really followed the "explosion noises" thread and I am not 100% clear on what your clip is showing. There is a lot of ghostly noise that seems to be superimposed on the top trace and much less on the bottom trace. It looks like a digital scope with digital display also so I find what appears to be some sort of noise on the display very puzzling.
Is it possible that the "explosion noises" are simply related to the fact that when two parallel wires conduct current there can either be an attraction or a repulsion force between the wires? That's why some coils sing and 60 Hz power transformers can hum.
MileHigh
I believe SM said that one important aspect of TPU operation related to the sudden and brief spike you get when current first starts flowing in a wire
That said though, I think, (aside from contacting grumpy's witness) If we wanted to take a fresh look at the TPU, we could consider starting from scratch and looking at things theoretically instead of attempting to follow clues and replicate a pre-established design.
Essentially, we could ask:
What are some candidate energy sources/fields
What frequency do they operate at
What vector of motion
And then think practically - what device can harness small amounts of energy, additively, so as to perpetuate its operation via our candidate energy source.
I'm very confident that if the construction is approached this way (instead of replicating an existing device) - we have MUCH less risk of being mislead or duped
MH
QuoteAs we turn on the earth we may indeed cut magnetic flux lines. But it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is if there is a change in the total magnetic flux going through your loop of wire. In engineering or physics talk, there is no change in flux through the surface integral defined by the loop of wire. A half-loop of wire or a vertical antenna will not produce any EMF either because there is no changing flux.
I understand the concept of a change in flux as
one method to induce a current flow. What is perplexing is the homopolar generator/motor, where a loop that exits the pole and enters the equator will have a current induced in it. Since it can be made axially symmetrical and lie directly on and conform to the fictitious "field lines" where is the change of flux?
Phantasm: some good points
Grumpy: Agreed later units used a bias field and were not at all position sensitive, further devaluing power line coupling effects.
Just to play the bad guy with respect to the old Steven Mark TPU clips and explore possible fakery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvLuQOKOVXQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvLuQOKOVXQ)
The old "two lamp" clip. The lamps could easily have held some batteries and circuitry to light up the bulbs.
I'll throw in the Agent Gates clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdrHAttl-ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdrHAttl-ro)
Are people still excited about this clip, I don't know? I assume that we are talking about 90 volts DC here? If I really wanted to hunt I would figure out what multimeter he was using to see if it was set on AC or DC. I am assuming that it is set on DC because I think the guy hid 10 9-volt batteries inside his big toroid. But, I assume that everything to do with a TPU is normally supposed to be AC-based right? Of course I realize that he could be rectifying the output. Notice the clip was posted in January 2010 but Agent Gates is sticking to the old outdated YouTube video format where the clip resolution is poor and there are no options to view it at higher resolutions. I am going to assume that it's not because he has a crappy video camera, but rather this was intentional on his part.
What's the deal with the 3 V @ 0.2 A in and 90 V @ 4 A out? One more time, this dude is not indicating AC or DC, what gives? I don't see anything in the poor-resolution clip that looks like a 3-volt battery. Why would he not show that? 90-volts at 4 amps out, in that clip? That's 360 watts! No way Jose! Those are probably two 15-watt 120 VAC light-bulbs. Note that they are a low enough in power consumption so that chances are ten 9-volt alkaline batteries in series will make them pretty much look fully illuminated as far as making this clip goes. They would probably be moderately brighter if you plugged them into 120 VAC. If you tried to truly draw 360 watts from that setup, the 10 hidden alkaline batteries would croak!
Back to a Steven Mark "small device" clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk)
62 volts is HIGHLY suspicious. That's one-half of 120 volts. When the chassis of an electronic device powered by 120 VAC is floating, you will typically measure 62 volts AC between the chassis and the mains neutral connection. I am rusty here and Poynt or someone else might need to correct me. The most important point being that you can easily measure a 62-volt AC "tingle voltage" with respect to some electronic equipment without having to do anything.
It may be like this: If you have a 2-prong non-polarized plug for a piece of electronic equipment, you are really Old School here. It may be between the third-prong ground (a true earth ground) and one of the two polarities that will consistently show 62 volts of potential. This is all high-impedance potential, there is no closed-loop path for the current to flow.
The whole business of him flipping the thing over and seeing the voltage drop is a parlor trick. I mention above that the tingle voltage is high impedance. He could be grounded, and when he flips the device over he touches it, and the chassis of the device starts to slowly "short out" through his grounded body and that makes the tingle voltage start to decrease.
Note also that Steven Mark is measuring voltage ONLY, so he is not worried about demonstrating any POWER output for the device. That makes his life so much simpler! He could easily hide a 3-volt button battery and a little circuit to generate the 62 volts also, and use a mercury switch to cut the power when you turn it over. A capacitor on the far side of the mercury switch would continue to power the circuit for a few more moments and give you the declining AC voltage that you see on the multimeter. But my bet is on the tingle voltage because that's so much easier!
Call me Archie Debunker! lol
MileHigh
Ion:
I agree that the homopolar generator is perplexing. The entry on Wikipedia is there for all to read, as a first step. I don't have all the answers.
I guess that I have a question, it goes against what Phantasm said. Does anybody claim to have one working and also is willing to share the plans? If yes, someone should replicate and test it.
Honestly, I don't believe that any combination of transformer windings or any exotic transformer configurations can produce free energy. So I am going to be a very hard egg to crack here. When people look at transformer-based designs, you can argue that all they have to look at is the generation of changing magnetic flux and the path that flux takes, and the reception of that changing magnetic flux with the "catcher's mitt" of the secondary coil. They also have to look at the energy carrying capacity of the medium for the flux, i.e.; the core(s). Beyond that, almost everything else is irrelevant.
MileHigh
In regards to the device turning off, stopping, or reducing output when flipped over:
If you look at a pictorial diagram of the Lorentz Force, the force reverses if the magnetic polarity is reversed. If you somehow applied a force to a conductor in a static magnetic field, just like the Lorentz force diagram or a generator, the current will have a polarity determined by the direction of the magnetic field. Now reverse the field, keep the force the same direction, and the polarity of the current reverses. If you oscillation circuit only works with a supply with a certain polarity, then it will stop because you reversed the supply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-hand_rule
So, if the device relies on "gravity" or "the earth's magnetic field" or some other field or force outside the device that is not flipped when the device is flipped then the output reverses polarity and the device stops working as if you started rotating the generator backwards (remember that he looped part of the output back to the controller for self-running mode).
Then there is the issue with the rotating compass in the center of the TPU and SM said that the direction of rotation is opposite in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres (CCW and CW respectively). I'm waiting to see this with powerline coupling or batteries.
There are several means of induction beside varying magnetic flux. The Rowland Effect, Roentgen Current, and Wilson Effect are use spin coupling between a rotating element (conductor or dielectric) and a static magnetic field.
Another issue realte to the above effects/currents and the homopolar generator is that SM stated that the voltage goes up by 1/3 when the device is unloaded. He called this spinning up and to me this indicates the rotation may have also increased. If that is the case, then to me this is indicative of "back torque" from the load and is known in homopolar generators.
MH
We covered all similar debunking probably four years ago: Batteries hidden in the lamps, showing some small voltage, not power, hollow base on Large TPU with hidden batteries etc. on and on ad nauseum.
I played devils advocate for along time using another name on another forum and raised many arguments as to how it could be faked.
That first youtube clip you mention is probably the easiest to debunk: The wall outlet could be a fake and merely closes the circuit of a relay and batteries hidden in the lamp bases. The TPU also closes the same circuit. The illusion being that the lamps were powered by the outlet and consequently by the TPU.
As for the other video of the "thumbs up dude" that is a known fake. There are many such fakes by attention seeking experimenters that flat out failed to actually create anything.
The whole TPU enigma has become so polluted with fakes and misinformation that it will be very difficult for you to find the jewels amongst all the trash that has been posted.
I agree that no amount of plain old transformer action will get you anything....this is well known science.
Read Dr. Schinzinger's test reports first, then the Michael Fennell report. Then download the video torrents I posted earlier, they are fairly high quality. The UEC video is not in that pack. Someone else can point to a good quality version of that one.
Then maybe read some of the early SM communiques with Lindsay. Even if it may be some disinformation, you will know where to not look.
Finally, forget most of the crap on youtube claimed to be working replications. They are shoddy at best and prove nothing.
I think there are a few here that are still open minded about the TPU and as presented by SM to be one of the most interesting devices to appear in the last decade or so. (enigma wise )
There are also those that have performed many experiments and have given up and now call it a fake.
I am on the fence, open minded, and find the SM17 to be of interesting construction. I find some of the SM videos convincing, others are easy to point to a source of trickery if in fact there was any.
Perhaps others can chime in with a vote of ay, nay or on the fence.
QuoteIs it possible that the "explosion noises" are simply related to the fact that when two parallel wires conduct current there can either be an attraction or a repulsion force between the wires? That's why some coils sing and 60 Hz power transformers can hum.
MileHigh yes this is very possible, so explain to me how many watts of energy would it take to make 2 parallel wires clonk together fast enough and with enough energy to produce an explosion noise that can be heard from 5 feet, also it's not possible to see the wires move, and the other problem is i can also produce the explosions in a single wire coil(monofilar), but i guess each single turn could clonk against it's adjacent turn.
I don't even know if it's even possible to get a bifilar to draw much current when being pulsed with nS pulses, Ive always had to use bursts and time the burst correctly to get the coil to even think about taking anything more than 30mA.
Guys you've got to move past it's a fake, if thats your view why spend any time on it.
You need to be a believer or move onto another device.
What causes an explosion, isn't it something moving faster than the speed of sound, if so then we can say if i am banging two wires together then i am moving them fast, how much energy does it take to accelerate 2 wires fast enough to do this, why can i not see them move.
Grumpy you were talking about a dscharge in your explosion, this is not a discharge i am only using 35 volts.
Quote from: Peterae on 2010.08.20, 19:17:49
What causes an explosion, isn't it something moving faster than the speed of sound, if so then we can say if i am banging two wires together then i am moving them fast, how much energy does it take to accelerate 2 wires fast enough to do this, why can i not see them move.
Grumpy you were talking about a dscharge in your explosion, this is not a discharge i am only using 35 volts.
It was similar to a rifle crack. Loud as Hell. No visible flash. No movement. Hard to tell where it was coming from. By listening for a few minutes, I concluded that it was at the output terminals of my 10kv ignition transformer (240mA) and placed a piece of very thick PE there and it stopped occuring. I have not been able to reproduce it, but can not remember the exact setup. The explosions occured at steady intervals of several seconds - maybe the "pressure" had to build up.
Some of us have covered a lot of ground if anyone is interested and wants to build and experiment. Peter can get you the explosions. Myself and others can get you space with altered properties, attractive coils (physically attract objects), and show you tounge-in-cheek ways to explore these things. The most important thing is to experiment.
I say "experiment" because if you build a finished device straight away, then it will probably not work and you will get discouraged. Say you are pulsing away and your field drops off before the collector...you got nothing...only you don't know that because you don't know how to probe the field.
There will also be some configurations that produce no sound at all. Unless you record all your high-points with video and audio.
I'm sure Peter's reports of such audio are for the same reason I've found.... electret microphone. Then there is the video problems... usually do to the Super-8 loosing sync - or - as in later years.... camera reboots and CCD sensitive to more than visible light.
All are nothing more than annoyances and gave folks a reason to cry 'foul' or 'lousy test methods'.
As far as mis-connected transformers... This is not something to overlook. Everything about a so-called 'TPU' reeks of perpendicular windings, out of phase signals and an induction lover's worst nightmares.
When it comes to the magnetic flux not rotating about the axis... I'll draw a picture because recent comments indicate many of us still don't see it for the simplicity it is.
The sound my coil was making in the video was audible to my ear without a microphone from upto 5 feet away in the room, but yes an electret does pick up the sound, and also i have heard the strange sweep audio noises when i sweep through the phase delay settings, this sweeping noise is picked from some distance, it can be heard in many of my videos, but not to the ear, it's only when i play back some videos i did there very spooky sounds in the recordings.
Quoteit can be heard in many of my videos, but not to the ear, it's only when i play back some videos i did there very spooky sounds in the recordings.
You may not have mentioned what you are using to record the videos and audio. Sounds like aliasing in the audio codec. This can also be heard in analog tape methods when a HF signal beats with the bias oscillator...very interesting sweeping sounds.
Peterae:
I apologize if I am asking questions that you have already answered, buy what is driving your coil when you get the clicking? In other works are you giving it an on-off signal of 12-volts, 100 volts, etc?
Any chance you are driving it with a discharging coil?
[EDIT: I just recalled in your clip you mention you are using a white noise source or something like that. But what about the energy/power level associated with this white noise source. Is it being amplified, etc?]
I am just guessing a sharp high voltage transition and/or a sharp transition to a discharging coil might have enough energy to make the coil snap.
What I might do is put on a pair of gloves (assuming high voltage may be present in the coil) and handle it while it is clicking to see if you can pinpoint the source of he sound by applying pressure with your fingertips.
This is a variation on a standard trick when you debug circuits. You touch parts of the circuit with your fingertips to see what happens. Or, you wet your fingertip and then touch the circuit. The "laying on of hands" is a very good investigative tool sometimes in conjunction with your scope.
MileHigh
the terminals of my hv ignition transformer are about 2 inches apart - nothing there to click or hit anything else
If SM used the two bifilar wires, and HV, what did he use as a switch?
Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.08.21, 03:03:55
the terminals of my hv ignition transformer are about 2 inches apart - nothing there to click or hit anything else
If SM used the two bifilar wires, and HV, what did he use as a switch?
SM may have achieved HV, but it didn't come from HV. That might lead you to an answer about the switch.
Quote from: ION on 2010.08.20, 23:36:36
You may not have mentioned what you are using to record the videos and audio. Sounds like aliasing in the audio codec. This can also be heard in analog tape methods when a HF signal beats with the bias oscillator...very interesting sweeping sounds.
Hi ION
I was using the built in web cam in my notebook and just sat the notebook in front of the digital scope, the internal mike picked up the sweeping noise many times.
You need to remember i am using low volts 25-50 for most of my tests, all i do is pulse the coil for 60-100nS wait a while then pulse again with another 60-100nS pulse.
I have seen a number of strange effects happen. In the explosion video at certain phase settings i would get RF/EM bursts these caused my digital scope to crash sometimes and also cause my fet modules to false trigger, it was during these phase settings that i first noticed the explosions noises. now from memory i think it was 187nS gap between the 2 pulses that caused the explosions in the video.
There was also a setting that would cause the coils to draw no current and then suddenly 3 amps, it would cycle randomly at a few hertz totally random burst of false triggering in my fet modules.
In the explosion video, the top trace was chaotic because of the false triggering of both fet stages, but something was occurring in this false triggering to cause the explosions very occasionally, if i held a magnet near to the coil i could hear constant whitenoise with the occasional explosion, this lead me to build 2 whitenoise drivers, i was working on the principle that the 2 random triggered fet stages were producing 2 Chanel's of white noise and it was this white noise that was causing the conditions to be right for the explosion to occur, it proved fruitfull, now i can use 2 white noise Chanel's without phasing or the nS gap between the pulses to induce the false triggering to cause the explosions.
I could do away with the white noise generators if i knew exactly how to produce the explosions, there must be a set of parameters/ timing that causes this, and infact Spheric told us this was the case.
OK here's the challenge
I want to be able to drive a coil, this coil can vary in length and inductance so the circuit should work for all coils, the coil has a diode across it, one side of the coil is connected to 35 volts, i need a low side driver that will switch from 10-50nS in an ideal world.
Should be able to tolerate 1-2amps switching current and work up to 2Mhz and be driven from a TTL pulse.
I would be willing to go lower on the voltage if it means i get a faster low side drive.
Anyone able to post a circuit or design Please.
Quote from: Peterae on 2010.08.21, 13:41:52
OK here's the challenge
I want to be able to drive a coil, this coil can vary in length and inductance so the circuit should work for all coils, the coil has a diode across it, one side of the coil is connected to 35 volts, i need a low side driver that will switch from 10-50nS in an ideal world.
Should be able to tolerate 1-2amps switching current and work up to 2Mhz and be driven from a TTL pulse.
I would be willing to go lower on the voltage if it means i get a faster low side drive.
Anyone able to post a circuit or design Please.
Several avalanche transistors fit this bill, but 2 MHz range is a tall order, but 1 MHz is doable. Might need to run them in parallel for 1-2 amps.
this doc has a long list but all are over 100v
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=318.msg4476#msg4476
you can always limit it
Look for a fast swtching transistor. One you can put a good heatsink on.
Quote from: ION on 2010.08.20, 14:54:49
Back as far as the 60's I did some experiments with slight movements in the frame of a loudspeaker. I noticed an immediate widening of the sound field with a single speaker. The sound field could no longer be localized and seemed to be coming from everywhere in the room. Certainly not 3D, but nevertheless a pronounced spatial effect. Minimizing standing waves in a room certainly creates spatiality.
I then theorized that it would not be necessary to move the frame of the loudspeaker if an additional winding on the voice coil could be arranged to provide a "wobble" to the cone in addition to the normal piston motion.
I believe that SM may have theorized along these same lines, and was experimenting with "specially made dual voice coil loudspeakers" when he discovered "the effect or kick". (Spheric spoke about this).
I believe what we call the FTPU was perhaps his very first embodiment to explore the anomolous energy. I believe he chose a wire spool and supported the windings on the rim because he expected some flexing or freedom of movement to get the effect, as in a voice coil.
But this was not needed as he later learned it was all happening at a high enough frequency (5kHz) that the wire insulation allowed for tiny movement.
The SM17 core appears to be toroidially wound over two wooden hoops with cork like material sandwiching poloidial wires. The height to width ratio would allow for considerable vibration or "banjo string effect"* of the vertical wires.
These are just my thoughts, not facts.
*I first heard of this descriptive term (LOL) in an engineering reference with regard to potentiometers in the several watt class that were wound with fine wire, an hysteresis effect as the wiper plucked or moved the windings.
I wonder how SM went from a voice-coil to a ring shape. What gave him the thought necessary to even try this? The toroidal section of the open-TPU aren't even continuous, but he obviously had done a lot or experimentation by this time since the controls are in the center and the device is looped to self-run. Also, he said he started with tubes.
SM's comments about UEC owning the technology seem contradictory to the US Government taking ownership. Maybe this means if the technology was ever public, then UEC could sell devices or license the technology.
Hi All,
If the above mentioned polloidial winding could vibrate from a bloch wall to a higher magnetic saturation, then, positioned correctly wouldn't the output be DC ?
If made to 'vibrate' at 5KHZ it would be somewhat hashy too.
thoughts?
Steve.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.08.22, 15:45:42
SM's comments about UEC owning the technology seem contradictory to the US Government taking ownership. Maybe this means if the technology was ever public, then UEC could sell devices or license the technology.
This doesn't surprising me. Even when I had the 'need to know', there were several 'fronts' using very well known names. These 'fronts' were listed as subsidiaries or isolated branches of a company. In fact, your company ID would never get you in the door, even if you owned the company. It was so bad, any reference to the real entity was spoken as "The Company".
Bendix, Lockheed Martin, Kraft Foods, National Science Foundation, .......... it went on and on.
As for the jump from a voice coil to a ring..... He didn't. He jumped from the sequentially delayed ring elements of the ESL speakers to the collectors of the TPU. At least, that is my take on it.
QuoteAs for the jump from a voice coil to a ring..... He didn't. He jumped from the sequentially delayed ring elements of the ESL speakers to the collectors of the TPU. At least, that is my take on it.
Fair enough...quite possible....but could you expand on this with a simple drawing or more detailed text explanation. Everybody seems to have a theory but are only dangling pieces of it.
If anyone has a working theory, it would be nice if it could be put together in a .pdf so some of us could try to replicate.
Except for the Acoustic Resonator Theory, posted on OU, I have no new working theories.
QuoteHi All,
If the above mentioned polloidial winding could vibrate from a bloch wall to a higher magnetic saturation, then, positioned correctly wouldn't the output be DC ?
If made to 'vibrate' at 5KHZ it would be somewhat hashy too.
thoughts?
Steve.
Perhaps again a simple drawing would help. not sure I know exactly what you mean and don't want to assume.
p.s. WW will you be adding anything to the "small toroid" thread?
A voicecoil is a ring.
Quote from: ION on 2010.08.22, 19:20:43
Fair enough...quite possible....but could you expand on this with a simple drawing or more detailed text explanation. Everybody seems to have a theory but are only dangling pieces of it.
If anyone has a working theory, it would be nice if it could be put together in a .pdf so some of us could try to replicate.
Except for the Acoustic Resonator Theory, posted on OU, I have no new working theories.
Perhaps again a simple drawing would help. not sure I know exactly what you mean and don't want to assume.
p.s. WW will you be adding anything to the "small toroid" thread?
I will be adding to my ST thread. When it is complete, that will be my complete TPU theory.
I don't recommend replication of anything unless it is working or you have some interest in a particular function.
Here is a schematic of one of the ESL speakers. Note how delay to each concentric ring is handled by a stage of an all pass filter. Also, see the shorted-loop-core coil of each filter element. The concepts were developed in the 50's. I can't imagine SM being part of it.
My definition of a ring is a single turn or loop. Anything with more than one turn is a coil.
The first and most basic test that anyone can try is this:
Wind up a coil from some HT magnet wire, 1200 feet of wire or longer with longer being better. Wind it on a form that is short so the coil is fat. Doesn't have to have Brooks Coil dimensions. Use plastic for the coil form, and the core can stay in the coil but the sides have to be removed. I pot my coils as I wind them with a mixture of styrofoam dissolved in MEK (I brush it on with a small nylon brush).
Pulse this coil with HV DC through a spark gap, or other suitable switch. For an intial test you can just let the pulser free-run.
This coil will produce a "field" around itself. The field can extend out from the coil from a few millimeters to a meter (probably more).
Within this field, conductive objects gain a slight surface charge.
Google the properties of vaccum such as permittivity and permeability, speed of light, etc and see if these "constants" change within this field.
My thinking has been the kick is the quenching caused by the magnetic field. The cutoff spikes also jack the field. The magnetic field always wants to maintain some complacency. So when it is disturbed it has power to return or maintain a certain level of equilibrium in its North / South field pole structure. Now if there is a monopole in a ring the echo will ring around and around. I also see this as the same charge pumping that the Don Smith used to ac charge the batteries using the DC supply line field. The conductor is used in two opposite directions. Now if there is DC going one way around the ring and the AC going the opposite way this could cause the gyroscopic motion with the AC field motion circulating. These field collapses overlapping in revolutions could amplify activity.
Above my ankles in alligators the past few months...
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.08.22, 18:41:46
This doesn't surprising me. Even when I had the 'need to know', there were several 'fronts' using very well known names. These 'fronts' were listed as subsidiaries or isolated branches of a company. In fact, your company ID would never get you in the door, even if you owned the company. It was so bad, any reference to the real entity was spoken as "The Company".
Bendix, Lockheed Martin, Kraft Foods, National Science Foundation, .......... it went on and on.
As for the jump from a voice coil to a ring..... He didn't. He jumped from the sequentially delayed ring elements of the ESL speakers to the collectors of the TPU. At least, that is my take on it.
The design didnt originate with SM -- pity someone smater wasnt chosen.
Quote from: marksnoswell on 2010.09.04, 13:56:24
The design didnt originate with SM -- pity someone smater wasnt chosen.
How far back does it go? Who was involved in the original idea and design?
Is the "energia celeste" related?
I wonder if someone "smarter" would have had this handed to them, if we would have seen any videos and been given any insights, for what they're worth?
.99
Quote from: marksnoswell on 2010.09.04, 13:56:24
The design didnt originate with SM -- pity someone smater wasnt chosen.
Hendershot's first device was around 1928.
Tesla's Pace Arrow automobile was 1931.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.09.04, 16:01:52
Hendershot's first device was around 1928.
Tesla's Pace Arrow automobile was 1931.
Often, I wonder if any of these exhibited characteristics of an OAUGDP.
I'm pretty sure the biggest secret, for the Pace Arrow, was in the motor, or should I say "motor-generator"?
The information was given to over 100 smart people. Most did nothing with it. What a waste.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.09.04, 19:29:07
The information was given to over 100 smart people. Most did nothing with it. What a waste.
Any idea of names for those doing something with it, besides the elite just saying nothing so profits won't drop?
From what I've read Einstein wasn't one he considered 'smart' except during public comments.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.09.04, 20:32:17
Any idea of names for those doing something with it, besides the elite just saying nothing so profits won't drop?
From what I've read Einstein wasn't one he considered 'smart' except during public comments.
I was referring to the Spheric'c info, which I accept as valid.
I know of a few "groups" of people that were provide information and instructions over the years. There was the TVQ Group, the one in Ohio that contacted Hendershot, the one in Mexico that Hendershot instructed, one in the 1990's that had terrible accidents (lightning strikes, tornadoes, etc.). The Testatika inventor too.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.09.04, 14:40:44
...
Is the "energia celeste" related?
...
Appears to be -- but there are no certanties and those dissemenating working designs covered their tracks well.
Quote from: marksnoswell on 2010.09.05, 03:47:57
Appears to be -- but there are no certainties and those disseminating working designs covered their tracks well.
There "poynt" is simple: try to profit and reap the whirlwind...SM knows..."tigers have sharp teeth and claws".
Maintain good manners and reap the benefits.
Instead, everyone sits around talking and doing nothing.
http://depositfiles.com/files/ikf1lrek8
Quote from: marksnoswell on 2010.09.05, 03:47:57
Appears to be -- but there are no certanties and those dissemenating working designs covered their tracks well.
Hey there Mark, just found this forum today.
Bob
Quote from: Bob Boyce on 2010.09.20, 22:30:22
...just found this forum today.
Welcome. Good to have you here. :)
Most of what Steven Mark said about the TPU indicates it is a regenerative AM receiver.
It's a tuned coil that feeds the output back to another coil magneticaly coupled to the first, so positive feedback.
He used a 9V battery in some units, then learned how to start the regeneration with just a flick of the magnet.
EM
more like a nuclear battery
actually something like this.
Notice the red colored connections, they are for voltage extraction to raise the voltage on the electrolitic above 9V after which the battery is not needed and ineffective due to the diode. The signal feedback coil is above the main antenna coil (L) and together with the capacitor (C) and the small inductance of the transformer, form the main tuning tank. The power comes by tuning into a magnetic frequency present at your location. This active device is high Q due to the feedback mechanism which has been employed in AM receivers since the early days. Notice there is no provision for over voltage protection, a zener diode might do the trick, but I leave that up to you to implement. The beauty of this device is that it will build up in voltage quickly if tuned to a signal and it does not require a mixer architecture with an LO oscillator and other harmonic issues. I belive this was SM's original design, which later progressed and evolved.
EM
Hi,
What do you mean on 'magnetic frequency'?
Is it the electromagnetic field of power lines?
Thanks, Gyula
This is a loop antenna and it works with magnetic fields not electric.
So, if you detect a magnetic frequency at your location, and you want to extract energy from it, then this is a way.
This architecture can work from low frequencies up to MHz and higher, all depends on the tank circuit design.
EM
EM, are you thinking the later units were super regenerative to get the noise out and thus a higher q.
I believe some of the latter units did away with the transistor and the battery, and instead used direct phase shifted feedback, by utilizing his "turbine effect" found in toroids. I've wrecked my brain for months now trying to eliminate the active components and finaly I had a break through.
EM
Then the whole story of meeting with the FBI and a Scientist from the Atomic Energy Commission would be BS.
How much output could you expect from this AM method?
The output can be as high as we let it build up. The furnace feeds itself, like we were told.
The circuit above will auto distruct when bathed in a strong signal. The voltage needs to be limited to prevent dangerous build up. It's the same like with the Tesla plate we were discussing in the other thread, the higher the voltage the higher the power flow since the current is almost constant. However, here, we are dealing with a magnetic antenna that "sucks" in more energy the more current flows in the windings, i.e., it's effective aperture increases quite a bit. The trick is for the phase to be locked, and it could wonder and fall out of lock, as Steven hinted. He said he found ways to keep it locked, a phased locked loop perhaps?
But this is old technology.....
EM
Hello. Please forgive me. I've been watching the TPU threads first from 2006 at overunity.com and now here. May I ask a few questions for my own clarification? Please be gentle.
I have heard Richard Willis over at Magnacoaster found a way to pulse a permanent magnet in a certain way to "switch off" the field around a set of coils for a short time. Then after the pulse stops and the magnetic field comes back, it has a little something "extra" with it, more than it started with. Sounds almost like a "kicker" to me. It's almost like there's an inherent frequency that a "static" magnetic field around a permanent magnet interacts with. I wonder if a cap has the ability to start this interactive process. A cap, a crystal oscillator, some coils in a proper configuration wrapped by Nd magnets... So is this how a permanent magnet can be made to interact with the Earth's magnetic field?
Possibly related, one day I was also looking over at hyiq.org (great website btw) and found this page: http://www.hyiq.org/Library/15-05-05.html Is it possible, with the proper composition of a permanent magnet, to imprint upon it an AC sinewave frequency using a variable transformer? How long would that field remain? Or, would it even be possible to imprint both AC AND DC patterns on a magnet at once?
And from the same webpage, is it possible to actually power a reasonably large load (say 25 watts) using a bifilar wound coil? Can high frequency AC, masquerading as DC voltage on the voltmeter, cause that interesting arc-like effect that Steven shows us in his videos? Are we looking at high frequency AC, DC, or... something else? A combination of AC and DC?
There was a message from Steven IIRC where he mentioned Tesla noticing his magnetometers being usually sedate, but sometimes they would jump. Tesla found that he could tune to specific frequencies and tap into REAL magnetic power. EMdevices. :)
But no doubt I'm way off on all this stuff. I haven't been keeping up with every thread about what's known about the TPU. I'm just curious if any of this makes any sense to you, if it's even applicable here.
Thanks for listening to me ramble on.
Quote's from SM
QuoteThe frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil.
Did anyone ever work this out, if the collector was 1 turn then the coils resonant frequency would be related to the circumference of the coil, but previously he has mentioned that a collector can be in series with a control coil, and we have mentioned low frequency control, so the right combination of low frequency's on the control coils causes the effect to manifest in the collector coil and these low frequency's are directly related to the circumference of the collector.
QuoteI made an amp and had a really difficult time with a 35K resonance.
I had so much trouble with it that I finally left the resonance there.
I last measured it at 35.705K at a really high level.
It is a good thing that I can't hear that high.
But it does prove that my output transformer is capable of going up to 245K HZ.
Whats the relationship between 35KHz and 245KHz it's not a multiple so how can an amp have a resonance freq of 35.705KHz anyway, if an amplifier had been tuned to resonate at 35K then you would call it an oscillator not an amplifier, and whatever is resonating at 35K.
QuoteListen, you need to make three coils or so one on top of the other.
But the important thing is to wrap thecontrol coils perpendicularly around the collectorcoils.
There need to be three of them all the wayaround.
Start them up one at a time each.
Firstfrequency then second harmonic component into thesecond, then the third.
So then i guess if the fundamental freq is 35K then the second harmonic freq would be 70K and the 3rd harmonic would be 105K and to get good reproduction the the amp bandwidth would need to be greater than 105K, and if he was sweeping the fundamental frequency and building an amp to test different coil sizes then he would be able to sweep up to 81KHz on the fundamental before he reaches the transformers max for the 3rd harmonic.
Maybe the load to the amp was not resistive or inductive but capacitive, this could then be tuned to produce the resonant frequency in the amp.
Anyone got any idea's
here's another observation:
The large TPU powering all those lights on the table, was said to have cork material inside and perhaps some wires which we can see him cutting with the wire cutters. The question now becomes, is there still a heating problem with this TPU? Because if there is, the cork is an insulator and any heat generation in a wire will only build up the temperature higher due to the insulating properties of the cork. Perhaps any wire that is inside the cork material, which we call the collector coil, might not be carrying the large currents the control coil seems to be.
On the topic of DC production, it should be clear that DC currents will not produce VIBRATIONS, yet all the TPUs vibrate - it is almost a defining characteristic for them. I think that's why he says they are DC devices with AC waveforms superimposed, and it is the AC that produces the vibrations, but somehow this AC get biased upwards developing a DC, perhaps from a phenomena like saturation of a ferrite core configured correctly for the task.
EM
EM
Consider this: Parallel currents flowing in opposite directions cause a repulsion effect between the wires.
Therefore it is possible to produce vibration with a pulsating DC drive (non-alternating)
SM hinted at this with the "battery jumper cables" remark.
Note that even when driven with AC current the wires will always be repulsed in the same direction (2 repulsions per cycle). The wires are always repulsed even when the AC changes polarity.
This is an interesting mechanical rectification of motion from an AC source, but will work equally well with pulsating DC.
This should be a huge clue, and not require a saturating ferrite material.
The question then remains: how was the mechanical vibration able to interact with the environment to produce a net gain in DC production?
Quote from: ION on 2011.04.17, 05:18:02
The question then remains: how was the mechanical vibration able to interact with the environment to produce a net gain in DC production?
vacuum polarization leading to energy creation
Attached is the quote extracted from a pdf of emails between Lindsay and SM.
The use of a length of zipcord which has one end twisted and soldered together is a common motiff of the open tpu, and is also evidenced in the larger units as I have pointed out in the past. It satisfies the jumper cables quote from SM i.e. paralel conductors with opposing current flow. It may have been used in all TPU's, but we cannot tell for sure.
The importance of the electromechanical rectification cannot be overstated, however one must ponder this to fully get it.
Grumps...could you explain how this motion could create vacuum polarization and energy creation in more detail?
From SM to LM Feb 19, 2006:
Quote from: ION on 2011.04.18, 18:58:50
Attached is the quote extracted from a pdf of emails between Lindsay and SM.
The use of a length of zipcord which has one end twisted and soldered together is a common motiff of the open tpu, and is also evidenced in the larger units as I have pointed out in the past. It satisfies the jumper cables quote from SM i.e. paralel conductors with opposing current flow. It may have been used in all TPU's, but we cannot tell for sure.
The importance of the electromechanical rectification cannot be overstated, however one must ponder this to fully get it.
Grumps...could you explain how this motion could create vacuum polarization and energy creation in more detail?
From SM to LM Feb 19, 2006:
Isn't the rectification electromechanical via orientations of the inducing fields? Positive pulses. Gravitational orientation requirement for earlier units. Coriolis Effect same as direction of field rotation in different hemispheres (early units).
Regarding vacuum polarization, the virtual particles are separated and made "real" by polarizing the virtual pairs and separating them with a sharp impulse.
Maybe ionization slows down the effect that we are all looking for.
Lightning, travels from a cloud and pauses at different stages as it heads to earth, it reaches a point where streamers come from the ground upwards to meet the bolt of lightning and completing the circuit for the baulk of energy to travel down to earth.
what if this happens in a wire as well, but much faster, so at the moment of initial conduction something is happening from each end of the wire and meets in the middle, if what ever it is that travels from each end maybe causing opposing magnetic fields for a fraction of an instant, enough to cause a twisting tug on a valve filament, the jump leads have each other to tug against but the filament only has the earth's magnetic field, unless the tug is the result from 2 opposing forces around the filament.
same thing is causing the crackling i produce in my coils
here's the video where i had the wires ratling around an Agent Gates coil
ionization influences charges
you can cause a charge imbalance that redistributes the charges (reformation) (includes charge injection)
or
you can push, pull, or drag the charges around with other charges, which is also reformation, but by external influence.
If you can produce charged particles or a moving magnetic field with very little expenditure of energy, by some natural mechanism, then you have a generator that runs with gain. Static and dynamic charge effects point to production of charges as the underlying principle in the TPU. This shines a different light on "why" people would want to suppress TPU technology. You can "create" all of the energy you will ever need for free. Many formidable tasks suddenly become viable, but there is a new set of problems if everyone has it, then some will misuse it.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.04.18, 23:24:19
...
If you can produce charged particles or a moving magnetic field with very little expenditure of energy, by some natural mechanism, then you have a generator that runs with gain.
...
"if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle" ^-^
W=int(q.E.dL) whether charges move in a field or a field source moves near charges.
"Natural mechanisms" prevent aunt from having balls.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2011.04.20, 10:41:36
"if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle" ^-^
W=int(q.E.dL) whether charges move in a field or a field source moves near charges.
"Natural mechanisms" prevent aunt from having balls.
ever hear of a hermaphrodite? How's that for a "natural mechanism"?
@exnihiloest,
comments like that got a few people baned from forums. Are you here to discourage any creative thoughts?
EM
If Dirac's "sea of virtual particles" is a "sea of potential energy" then all we have to do is "convert" the potential energy into kinetic energy.
There are many ways to look at it, all equally valid from different perspectives.
You can also say that the virtual particles are left virtual, but caused to move. Roentgen performed an experiment that showed that virtual particles in motion perpendicular to a magnetic field produce an electric current perpendicular to the direction of rotation and the mangetic field. This current is proportional to the velocity of rotation and the strength of the magnetic field, so you can guess that it can easily be very high when rotating a field rather than a mass. You can also guess that feeding the output to the magnetic field (via a coil) would result in a runaway condition as the output is proportional to the magnetic field and it will rise until it self-destructs.
I jump around between related ideas because I don't know exactly what is going on and keep changing my perspective, but the idea of virtual particles in motion generating an electric current seems most correct so far. I do not know for certain if particles are actually "created" or just somehow "converted".
Some of the interesting features are that the TPU "runs with gain", and that an inductive or capacitive collector can be used, based on statements by Spherics and work by Tesla and Kapanadze.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.04.20, 22:07:53
I jump around between related ideas because I don't know exactly what is going on and keep changing my perspective, but the idea of virtual particles in motion generating an electric current seems most correct so far. I do not know for certain if particles are actually "created" or just somehow "converted".
I am growing more comfortable with the idea that there are no particles, only standing waves of aetheric energy. Still, I find it difficult to imagine the details of exactly how standing aether-waves might behave and interact with the many other varieties and types of waves moving about cohabitant within our local aether.
For instance, there are a bunch of these tiny little wavelets raining down upon Earth from the sky, day or night; cosmic rays. If we knew more about these cosmic aether-waves and how they interacted with other aether-waves, such as what we call electron-waves, and copper-waves, and magnetic fields, then we might be able to design many varieties of aether-wave energy gathering devices.
The key cycle concept of 'intake-compression-power-exhaust' works for internal-combustion engines and jet engines alike, although they each work in a unique way to achieve the same cycle. Perhaps energy devices have a similar cycle; maybe something like, 'magnate-impulse-rotate-collect.' ...someday.
QuoteIf you can produce charged particles or a moving magnetic field with very little expenditure of energy, by some natural mechanism, then you have a generator that runs with gain.
SM
The technology is not magic and is in fact uses simple electronic
concepts to achieve the demonstrated results.I don't see how could be a TPU a generator. It must be a receiver, or if you like converter, which converts motion to electrical form, by electromagnetic induction as all our generators do. The amount of energy which could be converted by the receivers, depending on the source of motion, and on the losses of the system. In ideal case, all the energy which we put in to spin the generator could be converted to electric form. I think we may don't need over complicate things, and hunt for virtual particles to become real. ( I don't understand a word anyway about that :D)
However more SM
It is very possible to generate electric power from the earth's magnetic
field.
Think about the fact that in just one revolution, the Earth generates
enough electric power to supply North America with all it needs for over
100 years!
All we have to do is tap into that energy and all our energy wishes come
true.
In my location the speed of on I moving across the earth magnetic field is around 231m/s. (depending on the altitude and on the circle of latitude) Free motion, and natural magnetic field, anyone? :)
I don't know how much we may could load the source of the earth rotation, but my guess is a LOT! C.C
There are some very serious looking problems, which we must be overcome to tap into that potential, but it look like it's very possible.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.20, 21:22:23
@exnihiloest,
comments like that got a few people baned from forums. Are you here to discourage any creative thoughts?
There is not one "creative thought" in wishful thinking wanting laws of nature to be different from what they are.
I'm not discouraging anyone, I'm just suggesting to not let waste our time with laws of nature from fairy tales and to keep the aim of the forum in focus. Question of method.
Sentences summarizable as "if no work was needed to move charges in a field then we would have easily free energy" are completely empty and vain. In scifi and poetry we can dream a new reality. In science we can imagine hypothesis but we must face reality, we can't invent laws of nature, we must work with them and possibly discover (not invent!) these that are not yet known.
Well said exnihiloest:
however a large amount of the membership here
believe that SM can't lie and wants them to be able to build a tpu.
A lot of the information put out by SM are lie's done to fool
and send people in different directions.One member here (a very smart one) believes
that SM can't pretend to be scared of ,getting shocked ,feeling heat or vibration in the videos.
Jack Durban that knows SM said he faked heart attacks and illness
to not give the technology to investors he took money from.Jack Durban also said of SM, "He lies even when he doesn't need to".
Some believe that all the tpu's are real and will not accept that 2 can be faked easily.
Some worship SM like a sports hero or like christ.
One thing about people sometimes you can not change there opinion with facts,
only get away from them.
Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2011.04.21, 12:14:32
Some believe that all the tpu's are real and will not accept that 2 can be faked easily.
Some worship SM like a sports hero or like christ.
One thing about people sometimes you can not change there opinion with facts,
only get away from them.
Who will not accept? I saw your videos, look like it took a lot of time to build those replicas, but still don't see your point, why did you do them. :-\ You know exactly, a video can't prove anything.
There are not many facts about the SM story. What Jack Durban said could be easily a lie, as all things what SM said. I don't say it was, but you see the possibility is the same. If you are Jack Durban, don't take that as an offense. ;)
If SM was a lier, an actor, which could be possible, I don't see how that changes the story, and those some facts,what we have. As I understood from your last post in the other forum, you believe too, there was some working model, which was not faked, so what's your point?
Jack Durban made SM out to be a fool, read SM's patent from Spheric Lab's, this clearly shows he was no fool.
Hermaphrodites exist in defiance of natural laws.
Together with the four species of echidna, the platipus is one of the five extant species of monotremes, the only mammals that lay eggs instead of giving birth to live young.
Richard Clark patented a rotating dielectric generator. If the dielectric was not solid then inductive collector could be used. Look at the images and you'll notice that the rotating dielectric is perpendicular to the static magnetic field, and that the current is generated perpendicular to the rotating dielectric and the magnetic field. This is known in physics as the "Wilson Effect", and is the inverse of Roentgen's experiment which applied an electric field and produced a magnetic field. It is curious that he never mentions these inventors.
6000 to 15000 rpms
Energy generated is determined by: E=vBk
B = the magnetic flux
v = rotational velocity
k = dielectric constant of rotating dielectric
This device is the mechanical equivalent of the TPU.
EDIT:
this article purports that the Clark Device is OU:
http://www.gocs1.com/gocs1/Psionics/Tesla-High-DC-Generator.txt
guys, I think the Steven Mark videos of the various TPUs speak for themselves. Jack Durbin and the emails Mannix posted are additional information that may or may not help you in desciphering the secrets, I find some good stuff in both.
But over all, I for one use my enginering training to deduce what is the most likely phenomena at work, and I go from there. I listen to Steven Mark say in the videos that his device is a tuned device to a magnetic frequency, and then I can plainly see that his TPUs are loops, so I know what they are roughtly and I'm experimenting in that direction. They were not claimed to be "free energy" devices but rather "conversion" devices, and that makes me even more confident that this is not a "hocus pocus" type of device or something "fake". All this means to me is that the TPUs are basicaly inductively coupled tuned receivers.
There are basicaly two general near field coupling methodologies for power transfer:
1) Capacitive coupling like Tesla's experiments.
2) Inductive coupling like SM's experiments.
Magnetic coupling, and especialy at low frequencies, is the best because it can penetrate through most objects and even thin faraday cages (less then skin depth which can be quite large at low frequencies). It is also better for the human body as opposed to strong electric fields, at least for me because I get such strong headaches around Tesla coils one or two minutes after it is turned on.
EM
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.04.21, 15:15:21
Hermaphrodites exist in defiance of natural laws.
Hermaphrodites exist because of natural laws.
So do new understandings of, and creation of new physics laws. It has happened in the past. It will happen again.
Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2011.04.21, 12:14:32
... a large amount of the membership here believe that SM can't lie and wants them to be able to build a tpu.
A lot of the information put out by SM are lie's done to fool
and send people in different directions.One member here (a very smart one) believes
that SM can't pretend to be scared of ,getting shocked ,feeling heat or vibration in the videos.
Jack Durban that knows SM said he faked heart attacks and illness
to not give the technology to investors he took money from.Jack Durban also said of SM, "He lies even when he doesn't need to".
Some believe that all the tpu's are real and will not accept that 2 can be faked easily.
Some worship SM like a sports hero or like christ.
One thing about people sometimes you can not change there opinion with facts,
only get away from them.
Thanks for the information, cheappower. I was not aware of this context. It doesn't surprise me. What I saw about the TPU is:
- fuzzy videos which don't describe accurately neither the setting nor the functioning
- a toroidal thing which is connected to a light bulb and whose the volume is compatible with a battery able to light it for the time we see it lit
- many people playing with toroidal coils whose the many possibilities of resonance and coupling seem to astonish them when this kind of effects is commonplace in RF engineering (they don't take into account essential parameters which explain the effects, such the capacitive coupling between windings or between wire turns)
- consequently no proper measurements of in/out power, due to the absence of cautious and careful methods by lack of competences in the RF field and of dedicated equipments to deal with the wide spectrum of the signals
This is for the newbies:
1. Videos of Steven Mark's Toroidal Power Units (TPU) appear online for viewing. (youtube, google video, etc.)
2. Lindsay Mannix manages to get a hold of Steven Mark (a.k.a. SM) and begins email correspondence with him.
3. Mr Mannix begins to post at overunity.com, and a lot of people get involved in trying to figure out how this devices could function.
4. Over all, Steven Mark is NOT trying to help us build TPUs because he is restrained by legal matters, he only is talking about his discovery process as he is being asked by Mr. Mannix, which by the way did a fantastic job.
5. All the correspondence between Mr Mannix and Steven Mark is compiled into a PDF file available online.
6. One of Steven Mark's assistants from back in the 1990's shows up, his name Jack Durbin, He is interviewed by the peswiki.com website
7. Jack Durbin provides better quality videos (higher Res) than what is online, but does not know how the device operates, however he vouches for it and says it is real and not a fake. He personally witnessed it in operation. (also indicates SM is a shady character, etc..)
8. A few other people surrounding Steven Mark are contacted by Stefan Hartman of overunity.com, and their correspondence was or is still available at his website. Nothing extra or noteworthy was disclosed, just bits and pieces of circumstantial information.
9. Lots of people have and are attempting to replicate the devices and have tried various things, but nobody has managed to duplicate the TPUs to date, (my opinion)
10. A psy-op campaign ensues and a lot of people claiming to be Steven Mark or hinting they know the secrets begin posting on the forums, causing confusion.
11. A forum member and ardent TPU researcher from Croatia, our dear friend Otto, has a heart attack (cardiac arrest) and dies while experimenting in his lab. People are shocked and for a while it seems the fervor of research stops.
12. Stefan Hartman at Overunity.com rearranges his forum, and the original special area for TPU research, where it all began, is now absorbed and merged into the larger more general area of solid state devices.
13. Very few people still experiment or rather post on the forums in the Steven Mark threads, perhaps we gave it our best shot and we failed, but a few still persist behind the scenes.
Note: The original video demonstrations were performed in front of qualified engineers and professors, and their reports are available online. Over all, this device is real, and produces a lot of power by receiving it or "converting" it like Steven Mark likes to say. It is not a perpetual motion type of device, and in fact uses simple electromagnetic principles of magnetic induction. My personal take on this is that it is a resonant inductively coupled coil to external magnetic fields in the 5 kHz region most likely originating from the global power grid or other planetary standing waves which couple to the grid, because his house known as the "mansion", where the videos were filmed, is meters away from a high voltage power line. I was the first to go there and film it and take magnetic measurements. However, the exact details of how the TPU's are built, and exactly how they work, still eludes me, and apparently this device is so sensitive and of such a high Q, that he was able to take it up in an airplane at 15 000 ft altitude and still produced significant power. This device is presently deemed critical US technology and all patents on it have been pulled from the public registers. I personally did not believe this claim until I talked to an engineer that had received a patent and shortly after the letter informing him that he was granted the patent, a letter arrived from the pentagon informing him that his invention is now classified Top Secret critical US technology and he is not to disclose it to anyone without the proper clearance and NEED TO KNOW.
Happy Earth Day!
Sincerely,
EM
P.S. Fishing with Steven, that was classic ! 8)
Here's the magnetic spectrum at the so called "MANSION", where the Steven Mark videos were taken back in the early 1990's. Steven Mark has moved on since then. The spectrum was taken in the 2008-2009 time frame by myself with an amplified coil sensor, and the exact frequencies may or may not be the same as when he was living there.
EM
P.S. The second image PLH_mansion02, is a spectrogram of the audio track on one of the videos I believe, not from my sensor measurements. (my memory is fading a bit.)
Thanks for the summary and information, EMDevices.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.22, 17:36:45
This is for the newbies:
1. Videos of Steven Mark's Toroidal Power Units (TPU) appear online for viewing. (youtube, google video, etc.)
2. Lindsay Mannix manages to get a hold of Steven Mark (a.k.a. SM) and begins email correspondence with him.
3. Mr Mannix begins to post at overunity.com, and a lot of people get involved in trying to figure out how this devices could function.
4. Over all, Steven Mark is NOT trying to help us build TPUs because he is restrained by legal matters, he only is talking about his discovery process as he is being asked by Mr. Mannix, which by the way did a fantastic job.
5. All the correspondence between Mr Mannix and Steven Mark is compiled into a PDF file available online.
6. One of Steven Mark's assistants from back in the 1990's shows up, his name Jack Durbin, He is interviewed by the peswiki.com website
7. Jack Durbin provides better quality videos (higher Res) than what is online, but does not know how the device operates, however he vouches for it and says it is real and not a fake. He personally witnessed it in operation. (also indicates SM is a shady character, etc..)
8. A few other people surrounding Steven Mark are contacted by Stefan Hartman of overunity.com, and their correspondence was or is still available at his website. Nothing extra or noteworthy was disclosed, just bits and pieces of circumstantial information.
9. Lots of people have and are attempting to replicate the devices and have tried various things, but nobody has managed to duplicate the TPUs to date, (my opinion)
10. A psy-op campaign ensues and a lot of people claiming to be Steven Mark or hinting they know the secrets begin posting on the forums, causing confusion.
11. A forum member and ardent TPU researcher from Croatia, our dear friend Otto, has a heart attack (cardiac arrest) and dies while experimenting in his lab. People are shocked and for a while it seems the fervor of research stops.
12. Stefan Hartman at Overunity.com rearranges his forum, and the original special area for TPU research, where it all began, is now absorbed and merged into the larger more general area of solid state devices.
13. Very few people still experiment or rather post on the forums in the Steven Mark threads, perhaps we gave it our best shot and we failed, but a few still persist behind the scenes.
...
With so many people around the TPU for years, you surely know where are the measurement protocol and the data supporting OU in the TPU?
I'm talking here about technical and scientific matter, not rumors.
Ex, "newbie" :)
@exnihiloest
not sure if you seen this but I'm posting these txt files in case you haven't.
If you ask is there hard proof that the tpu is over unity the answer is no,its faith based.
Yeah EX
"it's Faith based"
Just like the 747's flying over your head..............,Oh we could pull one out of the sky and "TEST" it [just to be sure there's no Tomfoolery going on].
Chet
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.22, 18:52:16
Here's the magnetic spectrum at the so called "MANSION", where the Steven Mark videos were taken back in the early 1990's. Steven Mark has moved on since then. The spectrum was taken in the 2008-2009 time frame by myself with an amplified coil sensor, and the exact frequencies may or may not be the same as when he was living there.
EM
P.S. The second image PLH_mansion02, is a spectrogram of the audio track on one of the videos I believe, not from my sensor measurements. (my memory is fading a bit.)
Hi EM,
I found two interesting links on power line radiation I was not aware of earlier at overunity.com from user wings in this thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3455.msg282648#msg282648
So the links are: http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/Magnetospheric-Power-Line19may78.htm
and http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/exclusive/wireless_transformer/
rgds, Gyula
A lot of good ground was covered in this thread and others.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=403.0
It is important to read a lot of this and get a good feel for the timeline, which seems to hold up.
The early letters from Prof Schinzinger to Steven seem to jive with the dates of the testing.
that's a great link ION, I'm glad you started that thread and put all those reports there. I enjoy reading those every time.
and in fact, reading them again today, I realized something new.
The large TPU, only produced 614 volts over at University of California in Irvine, where the professor had his office. But at the mansion, where it's really close to the power lines, it produced over 800 volts.
Of course, we don't know what additional power regulation circuitry he might have in there, if any, so all we can deduce is that power varies with location.
These TPUs are so amazing!
EM
I think all this is pointing to the TPU not being an OU device after all!
MB, this is most certainly an OU device, if I ever saw one, he is not putting in any energy but getting out amazing amounts of power, it is an OU device with a COP of INFINITY !
So, just because we have some idea of where the power might be coming from does not make this not an OU device.
Would you say a solar panel is not an OU device? I would then have the same comment for you. It is most certainly a OU device, since the power is not injected into it by the user.
Devices which are not OU are things like: LIGHT BULBS, MOTORS, HEATERS, etc.. devices which consume electricity.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.24, 17:36:45
MB, this is most certainly an OU device, if I ever saw one, he is not putting in any energy but getting out amazing amounts of power, it is an OU device with a COP of INFINITY !
In this case, TPU must be Rosie invention! C.C ;D
How could it be infinity cop device anyway? :o
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.24, 06:16:26
Of course, we don't know what additional power regulation circuitry he might have in there, if any, so all we can deduce is that power varies with location.
These TPUs are so amazing!
EM
One should study how compound wound generators provide excellent regulation without highly dissipative circuitry, then work this methodology into the TPU design. This method was developed well over 100 years ago.
Yes, the TPU is an amazing device but will be discarded by the uninitiated as a hoax or charlatanism and I'm glad of that.
Remember most of the important documents and tests occurred in late 1995, then was buried. A lot of misinformation has been injected since then.
The good detective will not throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater.
I have some trivial thinking.
I think SM may have used special order room temperature superconducting wire. If this is the case, it's very little chance replicators would success with normal wire. We can test this by submerging a LC tank into liquid nitrogen then measure the oscillation strength. However, I would consult the experts first because it just sounds like...operation deep fry chicken. Happy holiday :)
@EM
Here are two patent numbers that may help:
US1287982 and US2266262
@cheappower2012
"it is faith based". Thanks for having confirmed my impression.
After such a long time and no third party data supporting OU, it has become obvious.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.24, 17:36:45
...
it is an OU device with a COP of INFINITY !
...
There is a challenge of humor?! I must confess I have not better.
C.C ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2011.04.25, 10:36:39
@cheappower2012
"it is faith based". Thanks for having confirmed my impression.
After such a long time and no third party data supporting OU, it has become obvious.
What an amazing impression. :P Is there any not "faith based" devices which claimed to tap to some unseen power source, we know about? I don't know any, and never met anyone who seen one.
All that hunt for an "overunity" device is faith based! As in the history all great invention was before somebody built the first one, and shared the technology!
@MB,
thanks for the patent #s, I find the Hartley patent interesting. A modulating scheme based on magnetic cores.
@EX,
Are you familiar how we define the coefficient of performance (COP) ? COP is equal to the ratio Pout/Pin, i.e. the ratio of Power output over Power input for a particular device, So let me ask you. If I have a Pout of 100 watts and Pin=0, what is the COP? Can you do the math? or are you too humored up to think straight?
@ all,
The reality of the TPU's performance is far from that based on "faith". Faith is a form of trust in unseen things, but when it comes to the TPU we see the videos, hear Steven Mark talk about it, and read the professors reports.
EM
SM stated that the TPU's had been tested to 15000 feet in aircraft and that they operated normally. If true, this doesn't jive with collection from power lines or other electronic equipment.
G, I know we hold differing views, but consider this. Whatever magnetic frequency he is using, I would think that the power grid would trap this energy and conduct it more readily. There are articles out there that talk about all this global energy coupling to the power grid.
For curiosity sake, I found another article that specificaly mentions Steven Mark ;)
VANCOUVER, British Columbia, Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Steven Mark, president of Spheric Audio Laboratories Inc., a subsidiary of Extreme Technologies Inc., formerly International PcBX Systems Corp. (OTC: IPCBF, Vancouver) reports that since receiving the Innovation and Design award for its "K" Series and "Krystol System Series" at the Chicago Consumer Electronics show, the company has received purchase orders for almost US$2,000,000 for delivery over the next year. The "K" Series and "Krystol System Series" were recently featured in Popular Mechanics, New York Magazine and Stereo Review magazine.
Furthermore, the company is currently in negotiation to encode its ...
I think the process of discovery for the TPUs stemed from the fact that these people were in the Speaker business, and their goal was to make the best speaker possible and also attractive. I think at some point, Steven discoverd that his speakers had an audible hum that was anoying to him and he tried to see why he was getting this hum in his amps and hearing it in his speakers, was the source the speakers perhaps? the amp? the power source for the amps bleading through?
EM
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.04.25, 19:35:20
SM stated that the TPU's had been tested to 15000 feet in aircraft and that they operated normally. If true, this doesn't jive with collection from power lines or other electronic equipment.
?
power lines are just the signal modulator of earth energy flow:
"Harmonic radiation from power lines in the range of several kilohertz penetrates the ionosphere and is guided by the earth's magnetic field to the equatorial region where it can strongly interact with counter-streaming energetic electrons. This wave-particle interaction leads to the amplification of PLR and the triggering of emissions whose power level typically exceeds the input level by a factor of about 10^3. The same interaction scatters energetic electrons and causes some of them to precipitate into the upper atmosphere with estimated energy fluxes that are 10^6 or more times the input wave power."
from:
http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/Magnetospheric-Power-Line19may78.htm
TESLA'S COLORADO SPRINGS LIGHTNING OBSERVATIONS ?
http://www.antennex.com/preview/Folder03/Oct2/elf2.htm
http://www.listenersguide.org.uk/vlf/
thanks wings, that ariticle is dynamite!
I wonder if outside the atmosphere, processes similar to those inside a vacum tube might not be taking place. Meaning, amplification of weak signals, and perhaps rectification.
EM
I tried again in vain to find a speaker mounting ring or hardware image that resembles the rings we see in the open TPU (see the previous fishing with steven photo)
Did anybody find such a pice of hardware?
We can plainly see the audio connector like in this photo below. I also added a picture of a speaker mounting ring, made of steel.
And speaking of materials, those rings would have to be made of metal since he says in the video that the device gets hot, and if he used plastic it would melt and deform. What do you guys think?
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.25, 21:05:08
thanks wings, that ariticle is dynamite!
I wonder if outside the atmosphere, processes similar to those inside a vacum tube might not be taking place. Meaning, amplification of weak signals, and perhaps rectification.
EM
combination of earth magnetic field and electrons can have much strong effect:
http://www.eastlundscience.com/HAARPMEVELECTRONS.html
http://www.eastlundscience.com/HAARPASAT.html
similar effect in your body when you stay close to high voltage lines
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.26, 03:04:35
I tried again in vain to find a speaker mounting ring or hardware image that resembles the rings we see in the open TPU (see the previous fishing with steven photo)
Did anybody find such a pice of hardware?
We can plainly see the audio connector like in this photo below. I also added a picture of a speaker mounting ring, made of steel.
And speaking of materials, those rings would have to be made of metal since he says in the video that the device gets hot, and if he used plastic it would melt and deform. What do you guys think? EM
@EM
Some said the OTPU rings came form the round speaker cover of a Spherics Labs Speaker System. Jack Durban had a photo of one and also he said he should have a few left over in his famous messy garage. I had asked him to try and find it and take a top view photo of it but he never did. The existing photo only was a side view so no way of checking the existence of the magnet openings. But from the side view photo, it is pretty clear that each layers was much thicker then the OTPU rings.
JD also had a beta copy of one of the videos in his garage. He finally found it and wrote to me saying it is not any better then what he already had given to us.
In the OTPU video, it is evident by the way and ease he handles the device in one hand, quickly turning it over with one hand, that the rings are not metallic. There would be no advantage to having so much metal mass around so few wire winds.
I for one think they are made of black semi-opaque plexiglass. I showed once a photo grab of his thumb that was clearly visible through the plexi-glass.
wattsup
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.26, 03:04:35
I tried again in vain to find a speaker mounting ring or hardware image that resembles the rings we see in the open TPU (see the previous fishing with steven photo)
Did anybody find such a pice of hardware?
We can plainly see the audio connector like in this photo below. I also added a picture of a speaker mounting ring, made of steel.
And speaking of materials, those rings would have to be made of metal since he says in the video that the device gets hot, and if he used plastic it would melt and deform. What do you guys think?
EM
Dear Em
I have lots of photos of the rings stacked on plastic spacers to form the grille of the transmission line "tube" speakers produced at Spheric Labs. I built many similar "T" line designs in the early 70's, but without such grilles. Back then, it was an inexpensive way to make a reasonably good sounding speaker system that was not a box, and superior to a closed box in many ways. Like all speakers there are tradeoffs, and getting a good impedance match to the surrounding air was a bit of a problem with these.
Jack Durban PM'd me about the speakers and the rings:
"Great to hear from you. I had no idea that we sold enough speakers to have some wind up on eBay after all these years. To be honest they were just run the mill speakers and those rings in the shot you put up...well they are trimmed in cheap plastic and they begin to spring open over time. I had nothing to do with designing them just the audio processing stuff."When Spheric Labs went out of business they threw out tons of these things according to Durban. I'm sure everyone grabbed a few as tokens, including SM.
The shape of the open TPU, wound on that plastic ring has i
n my opinion very little to do with the operation of the device. It was just a convenient form to wind the zipcord, and they were stacked to house the inductors and other circuitry. The real key is in the sections of zipcord we see with the ends soldered together.
If you want more info please PM me.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.25, 19:42:28
G, I know we hold differing views, but consider this. Whatever magnetic frequency he is using, I would think that the power grid would trap this energy and conduct it more readily. There are articles out there that talk about all this global energy coupling to the power grid.
There is no "magnetic frequency". This is just misinterpretation. SM states clearly at the end of the UEC video that the energy is created "within" the device and that it is not tapping into some other source.
Per Relativity and experiments by Rowland, Eichenwald, Roentgen and Wilson: it is possible to produce the same magnetic field by conduction current, or by the motion of a charged body, or by the motion of a polarized body.
Reference: Electromagnetic fields and interactions, Volumes 1-2 By Richard Becker, Fritz Sauter, page 300)
(Magnetic storms are clouds of ions moving about.)
What is moving in the TPU to produce the magnetic field that SM measured in the videos?
thank you so much for those images, Ion, I'm glad you tracked that down.
So can we say with certainty that the rings are made of plastic, and they are used just as a form to wind that zipcord onto it?
I wish somebody would have purchased one of these speaker towers and pulled out the ring for absolute positive proof, that it looks the same like the one we see in SM's video. Maybe I'll buy one myself off Ebay...
@G, my take on the strong magnetic fields inside the TPU is that they are produced by the resonant Currents that make the device work. the strong fields basicaly imply strong currents in those wires. That is similar to a loop antenna which has higher currents in it then what an external signal can produce in a simple loop. That's why I keep saying the TPU, generaly speaking, are Resonant Inductively Coupled devices. Resonant because SM tells us they are tuned implying resonance, Inductively because we are dealing with loops and he talkes about magnetic fields, and obviously we are coupling to these external magnetic fields being in phase with them at the same frequency. When a loop antenna goes resonant the effective area of the loop expands to 1000's of times it's actual physical area. Loops are unique in this respect.
EM
SM made the statement that the energy is created within the TPU's before his emails to Lindsay which made the analogy between the TPU's and a radio receiver.
I posted an excerpt from experiments by Francis Nipher where he was able to increase the strenght of a magnetic field by applying either positive or negative potential from an influence machine. He attributed this to an increase in the permeabiltiy of the space around the magnet. I wonder if he was able to gain anything by doing this...
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=363.msg13320#msg13320
G, in the first video SM tells us about tuning and tapping into the magnetic field of the earth, "which has an inherent frequency, and we basicaly tune into this and...." so he is not talking about the DC or static magnetic field of the earth, obviously. I would say that this revelation precedes anything else he says later through Mannix, and yes maybe he got smarter along the way, and I think he did as he keeps designing new TPU's of various shapes, but overall the principle remains one of tuning into a particular magnetic frequency. About the Nipher stuff, I don't know, too sensitive of a phenomena. It could be electrostatic attraction that diflects the niddle. Anyway, I'm not sure why you are looking for all these obscure explanations when the main pehnomena is starring us in the face. :) but it's good to look and explore, nothing is settle for sure untill we have a working unit in hand.
@ ION,
from his patent drawings, I only see two supports, but the rings in the video have 4 tabs and associated square holes.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.26, 21:26:31
G, in the first video SM tells us about tuning and tapping into the magnetic field of the earth, "which has an inherent frequency, and we basicaly tune into this and...." so he is not talking about the DC or static magnetic field of the earth, obviously. I would say that this revelation precedes anything else he says later through Mannix, and yes maybe he got smarter along the way, and I think he did as he keeps designing new TPU's of various shapes, but overall the principle remains one of tuning into a particular magnetic frequency. About the Nipher stuff, I don't know, too sensitive of a phenomena. It could be electrostatic attraction that diflects the niddle. Anyway, I'm not sure why you are looking for all these obscure explanations when the main pehnomena is starring us in the face. :) but it's good to look and explore, nothing is settle for sure untill we have a working unit in hand.
If the TPU is tuned to a magnetic frequency, then why has no one determined what the freq is? Such a profound source of induction shoudl be easy to determine. TPU produced hundreds of watts. In the UEC video, the TPU is further developed and there is no mention of tuning to a magnetic frequency.
The phenomenon that Nipher studied is thought to be "too sensitive", but can produce thousands of amperes of current. Not so sensitive after all.
@ION
Do you have a photo of the underside of the grill. We cannot ascertain if the middle portions have the four openings, two of which were used to place his magnets. That would close the question on this for good, phewww.
The thickness of the OTPU is less then the thickness of the grill levels but this could be explained simply that the ones SM would have used were taken before the parts were chrome plated, thus adding more thickness to the disks.
wattsup
I found another patent drawing, and this one does have the four posts, but they seem to be round not square.
EM
and what about the zip cord soldered at the end?
It might be a modified aluminum bicycle gear bash guard:
(http://www.cambriabike.com/Images/product/raceface_atlas_light_guard.jpg)
http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?Item=100032752 (http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?Item=100032752)
just clever use of known effects...
Here's a picture of the Krystol System II speakers from Spheric Audio Laboratories, Steven Mark's company. Pretty nice looking. What about those rings? Could it be them? (picture from New York Magazine September 12, 1994)
EM
http://www.earmarkcaraudio.com/Xcart/product.php?productid=16141&cat=254&page=1
I have attached Otto's paper on the TPU.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.27, 02:45:35
Here's a picture of the Krystol System II speakers from Spheric Audio Laboratories, Steven Mark's company. Pretty nice looking. What about those rings? Could it be them? (picture from New York Magazine September 12, 1994)
EM
The rings are irrelevant, and a waste of time and bandwidth. SM could have used anything and those rings do not appear in other TPU's.
I mentioned the Richard Clark dielectric homopolar generator and an article that claimed this device exhibits no back-torque. Did anyone bother the read this? What is the significance of a generator exhibiting no back-torque?
In the TPU's, rather than rotate a material dielectric, the polarized condition is rotated, emulating a rotating dielectric. The rest is just clever use of the Wilson Effect. The so-called "cold current", is just the polarization current caused by the pulsed coils interacting with the collector - quite a pain in the ass too. I've had this feed back to power supplies that were not grounded and then ground through my body - not a nice feeling.
There are people out there that can support what I am stating.
Attached is a document that discusses several forms of rotating disc devices such as typical Faraday homopolar generators and the Wilson Effect. The analysis of the Wilson Effect indicates that rotation results in an apparent increase in magnetic permeability. Sounds like an emulation of a magnet rotating.
(Section V, page 266)
Hi All
I'll be posting more on the TPU in the next few days as time permits. Glad to see this jewel resurrected.
It is my opinion that the plastic wire spool and the plastic speaker grilles were just convenient wire holders for the lengths of parallel conductors in the form of zipcord. It could have been wood or anything non-metallic.
The larger TPU's 15 and 17 seem also to have used zipcord.
Not sure about the 6" and 3" units. Why zipcord?.... go back and read what I posted on this earlier in reply #65.
Reply #65:
Quote from: ION on 2011.04.17, 05:18:02
EM
Consider this: Parallel currents flowing in opposite directions cause a repulsion effect between the wires.
Therefore it is possible to produce vibration with a pulsating DC drive (non-alternating)
SM hinted at this with the "battery jumper cables" remark.
Note that even when driven with AC current the wires will always be repulsed in the same direction (2 repulsions per cycle). The wires are always repulsed even when the AC changes polarity.
This is an interesting mechanical rectification of motion from an AC source, but will work equally well with pulsating DC.
This should be a huge clue, and not require a saturating ferrite material.
The question then remains: how was the mechanical vibration able to interact with the environment to produce a net gain in DC production?
I'm guessing that the repulsive force is somehow circumvented or even reversed to become additive.
On second thought, the HV spike at "make" would increase the strength of the magnetic field for an instant, just as Nipher found when he connected either lead of an influence machine to a magnet.
The magnet, though stationary is inductive during this time since the magnetic field is changing. So, with only an electric pulse of very little energy, you can magnify a magnetic field for an instant. The simplest way to explore this might be to wrap a coil around the magnet and try to collect by induction.
I ran across this in 'The body electric' really struck me as relevant:
The picture on page 113:
Also that lighting an incandescent bulb only shows the excitative state and not current. Connection at this stage is too early to power a load but can be used as part of the feedback.
This also Magnacoaster and Kunel:
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.04.27, 18:31:29
On second thought, the HV spike at "make" would increase the strength of the magnetic field for an instant, just as Nipher found when he connected either lead of an influence machine to a magnet.
The magnet, though stationary is inductive during this time since the magnetic field is changing. So, with only an electric pulse of very little energy, you can magnify a magnetic field for an instant. The simplest way to explore this might be to wrap a coil around the magnet and try to collect by induction.
Quote from: wattsup on 2011.04.26, 21:56:13
@ION
Do you have a photo of the underside of the grill. We cannot ascertain if the middle portions have the four openings, two of which were used to place his magnets. That would close the question on this for good, phewww.
The thickness of the OTPU is less then the thickness of the grill levels but this could be explained simply that the ones SM would have used were taken before the parts were chrome plated, thus adding more thickness to the disks.
wattsup
I do not have a picture of the ring with four square holes, but it is easy to see that as the diameter of the ring increased, it would be necessary to add four plastic spacers per layer instead of two as used on the smaller diameter speaker designs. This would prevent the rings from cocking and providing an unsightly cosmetic design.
As for the chrome, this was chromed plastic "C" channel that was glued to the rings as an after operation, again for cosmetic purposes. Durban explained this to me and you can see the channels peeling away in some of the photos.
Here is a photo showing the chrome trim peeling away on a smaller, perhaps 6" diameter ring:
and what about the zip cord...
Thank's for the picture Ion, I'm now 85% sure that's what those rings are. It's so encouraging to see the Chrome trim peel away and reveal that slight lip on the ring.
This really reinforces for me the need to focus on the toroids and coil interaction.
EM
PS. Can somebody please get on an audio forum and ask if anybody has a Krystol System 2 speaker and if they can remove the top rings and take a picture of the inside shape. That would be teriffic!
Here's an explanantion of how the speaker system works
Oct 1994 Popular mechanics
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A-QDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=Krystol+speaker+System&source=bl&ots=wVaF_KugE4&sig=E150DW-k7_HuMUEqSaBYhikvzvQ&hl=en&ei=6QW5TZ_-D8-JhQfH8pD_Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CGAQ6AEwBw
Marketing Manager 'Michael Robbins', Glass is a great reflector for high frequencies...
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/SPHERIC+AUDIO+LABS+ANNOUNCES+MARKETING+TEAM+TO+DISTRIBUTE...-a015500134
SANTA ANA, Calif., June 24 /PRNewswire/ -- Spheric Audio Laboratories Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of International PCBX Systems Inc. (OTC: IPCBF; Vancouver), announced today that it has assembled a team of representatives to market Spheric's three speaker lines: the Krystol, the "K" and the Mark Series. Spheric's speakers, the recipient of special industry awards, are finished with a futuristic look which incorporates special technology that provides high quality sound with reduced listener fatigue.
"We looked for, and found, a team of representatives known for their successes and progressive approach to consumer electronics marketing," said Gary Tsukuno, Spheric's marketing and sales director. "We selected established companies with track records that match the Spheric philosophy, companies that understand the distinct advantages of Spheric loudspeakers -- a great look and superior sound."
In a related development, Spheric Audio Laboratories Inc.'s "K" Series and Krystol System Loudspeakers were each selected as recipients of the Design and Engineering Awards by the International Summer Consumer Electronics Show Innovations '94. Winners were selected on value to users, aesthetics and the product's innovative qualities. The Spheric loudspeakers selected for Innovations '94 can be seen at the CES show in Chicago from June 23-25. Spheric Audio Loudspeakers are now available nationwide at mid-sized audio stores. The loudspeakers, ranging in price from $99.95 to $849.95, come in a variety of finishes designed to complement a room rather than hide in a corner like the standard rectangular box styles.
Spheric Audio Labs Inc. operates a separate research and development company which recently developed SphericSound(TM), a proprietary technology for producing extraordinary three-dimensional sound effects. Spheric Sound requires only a left and right channel to produce full three-dimensional effects that are more vivid and realistic than existing Surround Sound Systems.
-0- 6/24/94
/CONTACT: Thomas P. Madden, investor relations, of International PCBX, 206-946-5161/
(IPCBF)
Looks like they have 6 patents in total
http://www.patentgenius.com/assignee/SphericAudioLaboratoriesInc.html
(http://static3.patentgenius.com/17172/48032/D362441-2.gif)
William Winnick worked for Spheric labs as the purchasing manager
looks like he maybe contactable
http://visible.me/william_winnick_2873363
I have also found Gary Tsukuno who was Spheric's marketing and sales director. He's the Santa Ana one
http://www.mylife.com/garytsukuno
TPU's
Quote from: Peterae on 2011.04.28, 08:51:27
Looks like they have 6 patents in total
http://www.patentgenius.com/assignee/SphericAudioLaboratoriesInc.html
(http://static3.patentgenius.com/17172/48032/D362441-2.gif)
Peterae:
The patent drawing is a good representation of how the plastic rings and spacers were used to provide a stacked grille system. Although it appears from the drawing that there are only two spacers per ring, there are actually four as would be necessary, especially at the bottom, in order to provide a rigid support.
By increasing a magnetic field (flux compression) with an electric potential (see reference to Nipher in previous posts), a small amount of work is performed, but the reaction of the magnetic field change (Lenz's Law) is equal to the change of the total magnetic field.
So, I input 1 and get 10 out. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Here's some blow up pictures of what Ion posted.
EM
Large Arbor Fly Fishing Reel
http://www.google.com/search?q=Large+Arbor+Fly+Fishing+Reel&tbm=shop
Lets not get too hung up on the coil form that SM used, as I said before it could have been anything non-metallic or not subject to eddy current loss.
We have been down this road before many times, it is irrelevant.
Here, in my opinion, is the relevant stuff from "Spheric".
QuoteAs part of experiments, associated with what would become his 3D spacial control patents, he was using these delay elements with custom made bifilar wound voice coils (i.e. air coils) and unexpectedly detected an anomolous signal on his spectrum analyser.
Steven Mark created his own delay elements using iron wire after several years of intermittent experimentation. The technique was to carefully wrap a bifilar air-coil using copper wire. The longer the length of copper the better but using identical lengths. The two coils were connected to the SAME pulse waveforms in parallel so that the magnetic field is additive NOT cancelling. The delay element was added in series to only one of the coils that made up the bifilar coil. The delay coil was made from insulated iron wire wound into an air coil. An oscilloscope was connected to both COPPER coils. The setup would be pulsed with a dc offset square wave (i.e. 0 to 20V not -10 to 10V) at the resonant frequency of the bifilar coils. The tuning consisted of cutting the iron wire down in length until an unexpected pulse/signal appeared. This pulse is the kick. I will refer to these tuned bifilar coils as kick coils.
G, you asked about the zipcord. It is easy to make a bifilar coil with zipcord that will act like a uniform transmission line, with uniform capacitance between the wires. Note that there are two coils used.
Peter has done some excellent work with delayed signals. .99 simulated the resulting pulse in Spice, indicating the the compressed pulse that results is actually as expected.
What is the connection between the compressed pulse and an indication of "extra energy"? Like I said above, you increased the strength of the magnetic field by applying an electric pulse.
Any thoughts on "why" the presence of unmagneized ferromagnetic material negates the compressed pulse?
Well G i may well have a clue
remember the pulse i had with this single turn coil being driven by 2 whitenoise generators, well there is a clue because it turned out the copper conductor that was from a piece of aerial coax and after the tests i mentioned to you that a magnet stuck to it, indicating it was not copper after all, well it turned out when i rebuilt the coil using copper wire i could not get the pulse.
So maybe the iron stops the expansion of the surrounding field pattern and instead the energy gets sucked up by the iron instead, well that's my uneducated guess.
(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=272.0;attach=1650)
Yeah, Peter, I think the reason is something along those lines. The permeability of space around the coil is increased, compressing the field lines, increasing the field density.
If you apply HV pulses to any solenoid coil, and hold a magnet near the coil, you will feel the increased magnetic field (it's like a strong pulse or throbbing). You can see it on the scope with a coil around or near the magnet. It si a much lower beat than the pulse rate.
continuing with the compressed pulse produced in the bifilar "kick" coils:
Quote
From traditional electrical engineering view point the kick coils for a particular
quantity of energy now put out the expected magnetic field but also put out the
COMP field which has effects like a magnetic field. In a world that excludes the
ether, these coils are overunity. If the world took into account the ether, then the
coils would not be thought of as overunity.
The magnetic field is now larger than expected. All that needs to be done is to rotate
this field in a circle and intercept the field with an output coil. The captured energy is
greater than the input energy because of the energy apparently created by the COMP
field.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.04.28, 20:45:20
Any thoughts on "why" the presence of unmagneized ferromagnetic material negates the compressed pulse?
Such material means massive quantities of magnetic domains polarized in random directions. A rotating electric field will loose energy when ferromagnetic material is too close. Some of that energy is lost as heat in the nearby metal (yes, this means it is minutely non-conservative).
The magnetic field of the moving charge has no large effect until those magnetic domains begin to agree upon a general direction(mass alignment begins).
@Grumpy, and all,
Jason and I have both experienced the 'Extra' return with the dual pulse protocol on the bilfilar, speaker cord on an air core toilet roll coil. All it is 'is' the timing with pulse width. My suspicion is the straight tube is just a test platform and that a ring is necessary. @G, you stated put in a ring also.
And that would stipulate a circumference control of the frequency to get the previously created 'Extra' pulse to travel the ring and then additively collide with the newly generated 'Extra' pulse magnetically by jumping the gap of the coil start with the coil end. This gap also acts like a buffer and virtual diode due to the precession direction of the applied signal. The gaps are apparent in the open tpus and the SM17. This action also aligns with Don Smith's charging the source where an ac signal is sent back to the battery on the DC line using the external magnetic field.
If the applied energy is not enough to saturate the iron then the iron becomes a flux sink. Magnacoaster got around this by biasing the ferrous core with an added magnet. Then the field can be jacked in air easier and at different frequencies. The core matter controls the frequency due it a permiability and nuclear magnetic resonance.
At a speed slower than the circumference you also have a magnetic bias to work with. Coordinated with the circumferal pulse the whole ring would excite with the 'Extra' pulse. Sounds like the process to enable the thumping.
I'll tell you guys why I don't get excited anymore about all the pulsing coils research that so many of you have done and are doing as a way to achieve a functional TPU, and I don't mean to belittle the experiments or the efforts, I'm sure they provide and have provided useful insight into electrodynamics, but when you inject power into the coil you are now in the Joule Thief territory, a territory where you have to measure power in and out and do computations trying to prove whether the device is OU or not, and measuring error comes into play and in the end, at least from what I have seen, Pout = Pin just about. So, I'm not excited by this anymore even though it's a lot of fun to get 555 timers going, or micro-controllers programed etc.. To me the only worth while thing to do is develop a high Q receiver of energy I KNOW it's there. I'm fully convinced that SM is tapping into AC magnetic fields and I want to know the mechanism that is used by SM in his TPUs, and the best lead that I had is that the magnetostriction phenomena is at play and facilitates magneto-acoustic resonance in the iron wire, or perhaps the toroid inductors we see in the center of the TPU's. The DC phenomena I understand as occurring due to saturation propagating along the iron wires or alternating in the toroid cores.
But now, if those rings in the OTPU are made of plastic I'm forced to rethink my whole approach. I'm wandering what are the key elements in these TPUs? I just want to be sure of only one thing, is that too much to ask? Somebody just tell me, is it the center toroid, perhaps the toroidal winding, or maybe it's the iron wire being "squeezed like a hose". This stuff is getting way to frustrating for me. I'm the type that wants to understand something before I build it, and I'm afraid this is not the right endeavor for me.
Take a look at the FTPU picture. This one has two large loops, and a center toroid transformer as the prominent features (never mind the fact that I see a capacitor in there etc..) The two loops seem to have poloidal windings on them (to use WW's terminology) so this characteristic seems to not be present in the OTPU if the rings are plastic. Do you see what I mean, these inconsistencies are driving me crazy.
I want absolute proof the rings are made of plastic or as far as I'm concerned this whole TPU could be made of bubble gum.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.30, 07:17:18
I'll tell you guys why I don't get excited anymore about all the pulsing coils research that so many of you have done and are doing as a way to achieve a functional TPU, and I don't mean to belittle the experiments or the efforts, I'm sure they provide and have provided useful insight into electrodynamics, but when you inject power into the coil you are now in the Joule Thief territory, a territory where you have to measure power in and out and do computations trying to prove whether the device is OU or not, and measuring error comes into play and in the end, at least from what I have seen, Pout = Pin just about. So, I'm not excited by this anymore even though it's a lot of fun to get 555 timers going, or micro-controllers programed etc.. To me the only worth while thing to do is develop a high Q receiver of energy I KNOW it's there. I'm fully convinced that SM is tapping into AC magnetic fields and I want to know the mechanism that is used by SM in his TPUs, and the best lead that I had is that the magnetostriction phenomena is at play and facilitates magneto-acoustic resonance in the iron wire, or perhaps the toroid inductors we see in the center of the TPU's. The DC phenomena I understand as occurring due to saturation propagating along the iron wires or alternating in the toroid cores.
But now, if those rings in the OTPU are made of plastic I'm forced to rethink my whole approach. I'm wandering what are the key elements in these TPUs? I just want to be sure of only one thing, is that too much to ask? Somebody just tell me, is it the center toroid, perhaps the toroidal winding, or maybe it's the iron wire being "squeezed like a hose". This stuff is getting way to frustrating for me. I'm the type that wants to understand something before I build it, and I'm afraid this is not the right endeavor for me.
Take a look at the FTPU picture. This one has two large loops, and a center toroid transformer as the prominent features (never mind the fact that I see a capacitor in there etc..) The two loops seem to have poloidal windings on them (to use WW's terminology) so this characteristic seems to not be present in the OTPU if the rings are plastic. Do you see what I mean, these inconsistencies are driving me crazy.
I want absolute proof the rings are made of plastic or as far as I'm concerned this whole TPU could be made of bubble gum.
EM
Making an electric field interact with a magnetic field is not "joule thief" territory. It is Wilson Effect territory and has nothing to do with the joule thief circuits. It deals with using an electric field to increase the flux density of a magnetic field.
SM stated early on that the TPU has no "core", that the devices created the energy within themselves, and that they were not "receivers".
Squeezing the hose is altering the permeability around/along the collector as if you are moving a magnet. It is another form of induction and it is known in physics since relativity, but it is under-explored. You create the compressed pulse and move it through a magnetic field, the magnetic field is magnified, and induction occurs. If you apply a static field, then you do not get an inductive effect, just the higher flux density, as Nipher discovered. I suspect permittivity is also increased. All very interesting.
One large inconsistency is that in the early TPU's the magnification appears to be utilized in the bifilar wires, and not in a a separate collector.
http://www.energeticforum.com/showthread.php?p=138912#post138912 reply 122
I believe that contains the full secret of the Steven Mark TPU.
QuoteOne large inconsistency is that in the early TPU's the magnification appears to be utilized in the bifilar wires, and not in a a separate collector.
This is why it's so frustrating, the "key phenomenon " must be common to all TPUs.
EM
EM,
This is one thing I find common in all TPUs (at least it seems likely in all of them).
If a signal is applied to A-B, what comes out of C-D? Reverse the idea. Then bend that circuit into a circle.
Yes, I'm sure the 'controls' are only controls and not a power source. How else can you avoid the generation of harmonics unless the process doesn't use switching devices except to throttle the operation.
The only time there can be no harmonics is when there is no switching device. Forget filters and rectifiers. I'm certain neither is required.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.04.30, 15:55:08
It is Wilson Effect territory and has nothing to do with the joule thief circuits. It deals with using an electric field to increase the flux density of a magnetic field.
Don't we already doing that? ???
QuoteSM stated early on that the TPU has no "core", that the devices created the energy within themselves, and that they were not "receivers".
If what SM wrote in the emails was true, these are receivers, as he stated very clearly they working like a radios!
QuoteSqueezing the hose is altering the permeability around/along the collector as if you are moving a magnet. It is another form of induction and it is known in physics since relativity, but it is under-explored. You create the compressed pulse and move it through a magnetic field, the magnetic field is magnified, and induction occurs.
Another form of induction? :o Where? I trying to understand what may you think, but still don't get it, where do you think the gain would come in these situations?
The thing about the power conversion, there are no free runs. If you want to convert one form of energy to an other one, you have to introduce resistant! If there is resistant, there are losses, so you can't have gain.
To have free power, you need free motion. The truth is, the challenge is very simple. You have a mass which is in rest in your reference frame, and until it will not move, there is no free energy. So if you think about that simple example, tell me how would it be possible to that mass to gain speed in your reference frame, without any added momentum from the outside. If may we think, we could get free motion from the atom itself, it would come from the outside, hence the atom constantly absorbing and radiating waves. I could be wrong, but I think there is NO OTHER WAY to have free energy devices, just building receivers,which are tuned to some "free motion source".
I have a theory, when he talks about valve amps and driving the TPU coil's, he speaks about a new channel opening up, this would also be matched back to the primary of the output transformer, this explains why his output transformer is good for 245kHz, he doesn't mention the valve stages being good for 245kHz, so the new channel is reflected back to the primary of the driving transformer and extracted from each driving channel, this is why the collector and control can be in series because what ever is happening in the coil chain gets directly matched back to the primary of the transformer.
The transformer is a voltage to current converter while driving, we already know he talks about a large current kick, going in reverse the transformer becomes a current to voltage converter, to stop the primary stage running with gain he would need to divert voltage and power away from the primary drive circuit supply rail.
This is only with regard to the valve stage, he has to be doing things differently with all the models we see, as there are no valves or large output transformers in sight. In the models we see, there should be something obvious that can convert current to voltage and also the thick current carrying wire that feeds the converter
@ EmDevices said: Do you see what I mean, these inconsistencies are driving me crazy.
I want absolute proof the rings are made of plastic or as far as I'm concerned this whole TPU could be made of bubble gum.
=================================================================================================
The FTPU Coils were wound on the outside of a PLASTIC form.
.
Upside Down View.
.
Side view.
.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.30, 18:31:59
This is why it's so frustrating, the "key phenomenon " must be common to all TPUs.
EM
The "key" is common, but the application of it varies. Look at all of the TPU's and compare to both Spherics devices. They all use the same "key" process, but in different ways.
My WILD THEORY is:
1. The center Toroid is a 2 Winding Ferrite TRANSFORMER with 32 turns of copper magnet wire on each side (T1 & T2).
2. The Transformer is used as an Isolation Device between the 5 Khz Osc & the TPU Coils.
3. The two Black T1 Wires (on the left) go to the 4 TPU Control Coil Quadrants, which are in series.
4. The two T2 White Wires (on the right) go to the Circuit Board 5 Khz Oscillator.
.
Quote from: Chef on 2011.04.30, 20:55:01
Quote from: Grumpy
It is Wilson Effect territory and has nothing to do with the joule thief circuits. It deals with using an electric field to increase the flux density of a magnetic field.
Don't we already doing that? ???
No. We typically increase a magnetic field with another magnetic field produce by conduction current. This method, which Francis Nipher experimented with, increases the magnetic field by application of an electric potential.
Quote from: Chef on 2011.04.30, 20:55:01
Quote from: Grumpy
SM stated early on that the TPU has no "core", that the devices created the energy within themselves, and that they were not "receivers".
If what SM wrote in the emails was true, these are receivers, as he stated very clearly they working like a radios!
He used "radio" as an "analogy" to try and explain the aspect of tuning the device.
Quote from: Chef on 2011.04.30, 20:55:01
Quote from: Grumpy
Squeezing the hose is altering the permeability around/along the collector as if you are moving a magnet. It is another form of induction and it is known in physics since relativity, but it is under-explored. You create the compressed pulse and move it through a magnetic field, the magnetic field is magnified, and induction occurs.
Another form of induction? :o Where? I trying to understand what may you think, but still don't get it, where do you think the gain would come in these situations?
The thing about the power conversion, there are no free runs. If you want to convert one form of energy to an other one, you have to introduce resistant! If there is resistant, there are losses, so you can't have gain.
To have free power, you need free motion. The truth is, the challenge is very simple. You have a mass which is in rest in your reference frame, and until it will not move, there is no free energy. So if you think about that simple example, tell me how would it be possible to that mass to gain speed in your reference frame, without any added momentum from the outside. If may we think, we could get free motion from the atom itself, it would come from the outside, hence the atom constantly absorbing and radiating waves. I could be wrong, but I think there is NO OTHER WAY to have free energy devices, just building receivers,which are tuned to some "free motion source".
Yes. A different form of induction where a dielectric or other entity of permittivity greater than 1, is rotated in a magnetic field and current is induced. This was first proven by H. A. Wilson. (predicted by Relativity as I recall.) Here, we polarize the vacuum, and pulse it sequentially to emulate a rotating dielectric.
All energy that we use is converted from "potential" energy into kinetic energy. This process is no different.
Back-torque in a typical homopolar generator results from the load taking the momentum from the disc. I can spin my vacuum dielectric disc at 70,000 rpm.
Grumpy
We have different views for sure.
QuoteHere, we polarize the vacuum, and pulse it sequentially to emulate a rotating dielectric.
Does that make sense to everybody, except me? Hands up, who understand what he mean! :)
QuoteBack-torque in a typical homopolar generator results from the load taking the momentum from the disc. I can spin my vacuum dielectric disc at 70,000 rpm.
Well, to convert, you need resistant, that's why I don't get it, what is strange about a rotating dielectric disc in a vacuum container for example,when the rotation was added by you, and if you want it back, you still experience some losses, and can't get back what you put in, not talking about more.
You can't see it but my hand is up :)
Conversion doesn't require resistance it requires cancellation. Resistance is just a form of cancellation.
Why is changing flux density directly over a changing magnetic field so hard to understand? This is what happens, in the view of the conductor.
It all boils down to the definition of induction, magnetic fields and charge. If you believe making charge move in a wire is due to a changing magnetic field then I can see where you can't make the connection. If you can visualize a magnetic field as being more than just magnetism then there may be some hope.
We are back to definitions, I'm afraid.
@allphase,
thanks for the pictures, I agree that the FTPU is supported by a plastic spool, that's not what concerns me. I'm really confused about having spiral windings on a plastic ring like in the OTPU. Why do it? I thought the principle expounded by SM was that there are control and collector windings, a "squeezing the hose" type of action. So the OTPU does not seem to have collector windings, just plastic rings. The reason that this is concerning to me now is because I'm starting to realize that ION is right, those rings most likely are plastic as we saw in the pictures, why would you build a speaker grill with metal rings? it's just more expensive! So if they are not metallic, then my theory of acoustic standing waves inside the ring no longer holds (this was my high Q resonator principle). Now it appears that what Spherics was saying might be applicable here, i.e. bifillar coils, and iron delay coils somewhere in the circuit, and perhaps some spacial vortex that develops.
But, the other TPU's do certainly seem to have collector windings wrapped with spiral control windings. examples FTPU, LTPU
So was Spherics right? Was he there in the beginning when Steven discovered the "phenomenon"? I thought only Steven knew the secret and never told anybody not even his closest friends.
EM
@Chef,
I too do not use those terms.
But when I see instructions that I can follow and add to I jump on it.
My latest is Magnacoaster with HV and Aiding the flux.
Marco once said that it is easier to aid the flux than to kill it. My suspicion is when SM said 'cancel the flux' it was a snippet of 'cancel the previous state of the flux by aiding it'. With two rings this would create 2 transformers in close proximity that could be made to resonate with each other each 180 out of phase. This would create a magnetic flip flop. With a sense coil reading this motion then he could drive the circuit. The Kunel patent also complies with the statement of 'cancel the flux' and 'squeeze the hose'. My current setup can be manipulated to do both aiding and canceling.
And if it seems like I am making shit up to stay in the conversation then let me know and I'll excuse myself. I suffer from fustration too. I see the same or close processes in all the devices and talks.
It works.
The rest is up to you.
;)
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011.05.01, 05:17:28
You can't see it but my hand is up :)
Conversion doesn't require resistance it requires cancellation. Resistance is just a form of cancellation.
Why is changing flux density directly over a changing magnetic field so hard to understand? This is what happens, in the view of the conductor.
It all boils down to the definition of induction, magnetic fields and charge. If you believe making charge move in a wire is due to a changing magnetic field then I can see where you can't make the connection. If you can visualize a magnetic field as being more than just magnetism then there may be some hope.
We are back to definitions, I'm afraid.
Well, I must be that stupid. However I think I have a good understanding on why charge moving in the wire, and how could be that movement diminish from different view points, I still don't understand why polarize the vacuum and pulse it sequentially to emulate a rotating dielectric, lead to free energy. It must be me, who can't have enough imagination to figure it out from one well explained sentence.
It look like as he state, it's an already proved working mechanism, and You and Him know that very well, built devices based on these principle, but sadly Grumpy and You can't tell more about that, we have to figure it out by ourself.
Well, and Grumpy have to add:
It works!Ohhh my, I see where it going again......
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.04.30, 18:31:59
This is why it's so frustrating, the "key phenomenon " must be common to all TPUs.
EM
The open TPU uses zipcord terminated at one end.This is clearly seen from the video clips. Possibly there are four of these or maybe just one continuous length.
In my opinion, the other TPU's must have a variation of this zipcord terminated at one end. (We do see this in the SM17 See reply #6 in this thread http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=360.0 )The zipcord is clearly seen in this video capture of the SM17.
This is the key in my opinion, and can be applied to all the other TPU's. This is the bifilar kick coil. But what is the kick?
Consider that the dielectric between the (zip cord) wires must decrease capacitance slightly due to the repulsion effect between the wires.
This is a parametric pumping of the capacitance.
Consider also that the repulsion causes a slight opening and closing of the distance between the wires. How this interacts with ambient or artificial external magnetic fields is to be determined by experiment. Is this a magnetic gating effect?
So in my opinion, the OTPU is the key to all the others. As Spheric said "The longer the length of copper the better but using identical lengths."
The bifilar zip cord is just a lot longer in the larger TPU's.
I believe the saturable inductors are used to create high peak currents of short duration from a small oscillator in order to create the required repulsion effect between the zipcord wire pairs.
The OTPU was wound on discarded plastic spacers from speaker grille assemblies. The FTPU was wound on the rim of a plastic wire spool.
The evidence overwhelmingly supports this, no need to go down that rabbit hole looking for exotic core materials. There was no core. All of the TPU's were very light in weight for their size.
The only devices with cores were the saturable reactors.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011.04.30, 20:33:15
EM,
This is one thing I find common in all TPUs (at least it seems likely in all of them).
If a signal is applied to A-B, what comes out of C-D? Reverse the idea. Then bend that circuit into a circle.
Yes, I'm sure the 'controls' are only controls and not a power source. How else can you avoid the generation of harmonics unless the process doesn't use switching devices except to throttle the operation.
The only time there can be no harmonics is when there is no switching device. Forget filters and rectifiers. I'm certain neither is required.
I'm sure you are on to the right idea here. Perhaps a long length of zipcord wound horizontally in solenoid manner around a form, with a toroidal overwinding as a control for the magnetic alignment. Or reverse this winding method.
Here's a quote i made when i looked into using Saturable Inductors to narrow the pulse width.
QuoteSo i can use decreasing inductance along the chain with the same capacitance and achieve 100% energy transfer with a decreasing pulse width but the peak voltage will remain the same on the output pulse.
The other way is to have the same inductance but decreasing capacitance, this will give me increasing peak voltages and the decreasing of the pulse width with an efficiency of 3.6% in the example provided.
So it's very unlikely an OU device would use a SI chain to increase peak current and shorten the pulse as93.4% of the drive energy would be wasted in the process.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=565.msg8866#msg8866 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=565.msg8866#msg8866)
Quote from: Peterae on 2011.05.01, 16:09:05
Here's a quote i made when i looked into using Saturable Inductors to narrow the pulse width.
So it's very unlikely an OU device would use a SI chain to increase peak current and shorten the pulse as93.4% of the drive energy would be wasted in the process.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=565.msg8866#msg8866 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=565.msg8866#msg8866)
There are many other ways to use the saturable qualities of an inductor to create high currents in a resonant circuit. This is what I am talking about.
Not talking about using an SI chain for pulse sharpening. That would be the wrong approach and inefficient as you stated.
Be careful what you rule out and what you include. Spherics was attempting to familiarize people with saturable inductors. The paper he referenced was not to be applied literally. There is another way.
And it has been shown many times the parallel wires terminated at the ends or connected together inside another perpendicular winding.
That sinking feeling occurs when I look at some of the complex coils I have that have a core of 1 run and not bifilar.
I post these pictures.
The one with the bursts is what Grumpy had posted about the 22 awg gauge performing and not the 28awg.
The gk4 wiring is what I saw SM talking about. If you have a piece of iron 'WIRE' in a magnetic field in any angular direction you have a collector. It will collect and then its parallel brother of copper can show current. So if you have a copper biased run it too will pickup any angular magnetic perturbation.
If any of this does not apply please comment. I don't think I am shooting blind.
Quote from: Chef on 2011.05.01, 13:12:36
Well, I must be that stupid. However I think I have a good understanding on why charge moving in the wire, and how could be that movement diminish from different view points, I still don't understand why polarize the vacuum and pulse it sequentially to emulate a rotating dielectric, lead to free energy. It must be me, who can't have enough imagination to figure it out from one well explained sentence.
It look like as he state, it's an already proved working mechanism, and You and Him know that very well, built devices based on these principle, but sadly Grumpy and You can't tell more about that, we have to figure it out by ourself.
Well, and Grumpy have to add: It works!
Ohhh my, I see where it going again......
The Wilson Effect is already proven to generate a current. If you can not bother to look it up in literature, then that is your problem.
You still have not tried the experiment that I gave you, where you pulse a coil and hold a magnet near it to feel the change in the magnetic field. Yet you still press for more explanations and more information.
No amount of explanation will help people that will not help themselves.
Quote from: ION on 2011.04.28, 00:43:47
I do not have a picture of the ring with four square holes, but it is easy to see that as the diameter of the ring increased, it would be necessary to add four plastic spacers per layer instead of two as used on the smaller diameter speaker designs. This would prevent the rings from cocking and providing an unsightly cosmetic design.
As for the chrome, this was chromed plastic "C" channel that was glued to the rings as an after operation, again for cosmetic purposes. Durban explained this to me and you can see the channels peeling away in some of the photos.
Here is a photo showing the chrome trim peeling away on a smaller, perhaps 6" diameter ring:
@ION
Thanks for that photo. If those are the disks, then they would have to be modified with the magnet squares, plus the outer diameter would have had to be trimmed down to about 1" wide for the rim where the coils are wound. Of course he could have had them custom made but it is obvious the influence of the OTPU disk design stems from his speaker grills.
Don't forget, FTPU(1), OTPU(1), MTPU(1) , LTPU(2) all have one or more toroid coils as the numbers indicate. Also, I know this is going back to the beginning but them damn toroid dimensions where never found to exist in any standard line of toroidal cores. You will never see a regular toroid core with those dimensions. Also, for such a massive core dimension, it is totally crazy to think a one layer 32 something coil turns will be able to effectively transfer anything from one coil to the other without major losses. But the dimension of the toroidal core falls in perfectly with dimension of standard speaker magnets on the market. I had researched that also.
Ha. Does anyone know why speakers use the magnets that they use since generations, we still use the same magnet types. Have you ever seen very big speakers using a 16oz. neo-magnet? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Not really.
So what if the toroid was not used for half/coil to half/coil coupling so let's just turn the theories completely on their heads once again.
What if the toroidal core was made of hard plastic having no coupling ability at all. Maybe a static deflection quality of a non permeable core. That would explain why the toroid coil wires sink into the core material. That would make the toroid a simple air core where any pulsing would be then available outwards and into the center of the toroid. Why? It would act like a smart or virtual speaker magnet.
Maybe that's why SM spent so much money on magnets, trying to find the perfect already available flux density that he could manipulate with a coil, but then realized it is very hard to do (I have tried it many times wrapping coils over magnets to deflect the field to then catch the deflection with another coil and it is very difficult to do and requires endless R&D), why not just make your own smart magnet that can deliver exactly the flux needed for the effect required.
But what is the effect required?
Let's go on, but, before that remember this one important thing. SM never showed anyone the toroids from underneath. Even in the OTPU, we can see the front or top of the toroid held vertically behind the circuit board, but we never see behind or under the toroid in all cases. What is constant in the toroids is that metallic bracket with the connection stubs. Now why would you build a toroid with two half coils of one layer, then go to all the trouble of mounting it on a metal bracket? Well, brackets are usually used to hold things together meaning in plural sense more then one thing is held with a bracket. But we only see one thing, the toroid. But there could easily be something under the toroid. In the FTPU, there is more then ample room for his first cruder build. Then in the OTPU it is hidden behind the circuit board, then in the MTPU and LTPU they were safely mounted on black boxes again offering room below the toroid.
You all know what SM flat out said "you can move a magnet a foot over one wire, or a foot over 1000 wires" and this is true when you do it 5 times per second or 100 times per second. Yes indeed. But you can also do the same thing by moving the magnet only 1 mm over a wire, 5000 times per second. SM was refering to the distance/time/frequency factor. He says it in feet, but it could be only mm's.
Now, think of how a speaker works. Speakers that he was working with for years. We all know how a speaker works, right. Outer magnet, speaker coil, inner metal core. So what if the SM Toroid is a smart speaker magnet, a speaker coil and an outer pickup coil all working in feedback mode.
I think the FTPU, OTPU, MTPU and LTPU produces their outputs 100% via the Toroids and what was under the Toroids. Everything else was distractions. At best the outer coils were acting both like a capacitor and an inductor for the sole purpose of storing gain, but the same coils could be made in so many ways.
I will stop here because those that will catch this post will understand I don't need to say much more because they have now caught onto a new line of thinking. Part of the TPU is real, the other parts are decoys, and knowing SM's high level of paranoia against industrial espionage, he would not have it any other way. I have prepared a diagram to show you guys what I am thinking. In the FTPU where SM put the magnet, then in the LTPU there were the same bracket terminals on the toroids but he never placed a magnet there. In the FTPU, the magnet was pre-biasing the center core as in the diagram, since the outer toroid was not a magnet from which a regular speaker core uses to be semi-magnetic.
wattsup
Good points WattsUp. I too was wondering about the strange dimensions of the toroids.
The Toroids also look EXACTLY LIKE VHS Tape painted white. Look at the white toothed plate under each toroid in the LTPU.
It looks exactly like a VHS tape removed from its case. He probably pulled out some tape in the center to make the ID larger.
What say you WattsUp? Could it be VHS or Beta magnetic tape used as a Toroid?.
Quote from: AllPhase on 2011.05.02, 00:20:10
Good points WattsUp. I too was wondering about the strange dimensions of the toroids.
The Toroids also look EXACTLY LIKE VHS Tape painted white. Look at the white toothed plate under each toroid in the LTPU.
It looks exactly like a VHS tape removed from its case. He probably pulled out some tape in the center to make the ID larger.
What say you Wattsup? Could it be VHS or Beta magnetic tape used as a Toroid?.
First of all I am sorry to distract from the present line of thinking.
Regarding tape as a toroid material, I don't think VHS or any other video tape material could be used since it is definitely not hard enough to support the amount of stress that is obviously inherent with winding the coils on the toroid. Painted or not, the tape would have given way much more then as seen. I think the toroid core is hard plastic
or another hard material, maybe semi-permeable but not ferrite or iron. It could be an aluminum toroid, but I would put my money on hard plastic or even wood. But plastic like plexi-glass either one thickness or several layers would do the trick.
wattsup
Added: Also as seen on the diagram I made, the pick up coil leads and the bucking coil leads exit from the toroid center and since both are from different sources, that would explain why the 4 wire of the toroid are not identical in color and in gauge.
Lastly, when you really think about it, how many times did SM mention anything about the center toroids. Now what does this tell you. Now how many times did he talk about his outer windings. Now what does that tell you. Coul dit be that the more he talked about something, the less important it was, and the least he talked about something, the more important it was. from what i know, he never said anything about the toroids themselves.
@Wattsup!,
Excellent sleuthing!
SM did put the clamp meter by the center toroids.
And the under coils you have would fit down the center of the otpu.
So what you presented definately redraws the line in the sand as far as the previous explanations go.
He let the speaker work as normal but without the paper cone?
This design would be easily enabled by a 555.
IMO the most important clue to the nature of the TPU is the reported heat generation. It is a fairly well known fact that most battery types can be made to perform more efficiently when operating at an optimal temperature. To achieve this a process known as core preheating is used, whereby an AC pulsed current is applied to the battery for a period of time to increase its internal temperature, which in turn reduces its internal resistance and overall improves the working capacity of the battery. Most hybrid cars adopt this technique to improve battery performance, especially in cold weather conditions. I have seen the effects of this in EV race competitions where cars using 'doctored' batteries consistently outperform the rest of the field by a huge margin. This process works very well using Nicad batteries.
Its possible that SM knew this and employed a hidden Nicad battery set split into two halves whereby he used two separate say 10-20Khz heavy duty oscillators working in tandem, such that each oscillator output pulse current heated its partners battery in addition to driving the load to boost performance. This could easily generate the heat reported, especially if SM had found that high levels of core heating resulted in even higher capacity yield. The pulse frequency used is typically 0.5HZ at 50% duty. Most people studying the TPU had ruled out battery power on the basis of manufacturers capacity specification at normal working temperatures but I have always suspected that SM could have had a trick up his sleeve and this may have been it!
I intend to carry out some experiments along these lines as I really do not believe that 'free' aetheric energy is the prime mover here..
Hoppy
Quote from: Hoppy on 2011.05.02, 13:12:20
IMO the most important clue to the nature of the TPU is the reported heat generation. It is a fairly well known fact that most battery types can be made to perform more efficiently when operating at an optimal temperature. To achieve this a process known as core preheating is used, whereby an AC pulsed current is applied to the battery for a period of time to increase its internal temperature, which in turn reduces its internal resistance and overall improves the working capacity of the battery. Most hybrid cars adopt this technique to improve battery performance, especially in cold weather conditions. I have seen the effects of this in EV race competitions where cars using 'doctored' batteries consistently outperform the rest of the field by a huge margin. This process works very well using Nicad batteries.
Its possible that SM knew this and employed a hidden Nicad battery set split into two halves whereby he used two separate say 10-20Khz heavy duty oscillators working in tandem, such that each oscillator output pulse current heated its partners battery in addition to driving the load to boost performance. This could easily generate the heat reported, especially if SM had found that high levels of core heating resulted in even higher capacity yield. The pulse frequency used is typically 0.5HZ at 50% duty. Most people studying the TPU had ruled out battery power on the basis of manufacturers capacity specification at normal working temperatures but I have always suspected that SM could have had a trick up his sleeve and this may have been it!
I intend to carry out some experiments along these lines as I really do not believe that 'free' aetheric energy is the prime mover here..
Hoppy
@Happy
I don't know that much about the subject but generally when I try to postulate a theory of TPU operation, I will always try to make the theory link with components that both link with the physical reality of the devices. I would say your theory could fit the STPU and 6TPU devices since these two units do not follow the standard SM toroid usage obviously because of the device form factor makes it ideal to think they were battery driven.
Also, just think of the illogical progression of device conceptions. 4 devices use the SM standard toroid. The first two devices are the FTPU and OTPU. Then SM miraculously comes up with the STPU and 6TPU that both deviated from the original first two designs. Now both of these were true winners since they were totally self contained, compact, see through centers and both had impressive output production that in themselves would solved a great many of the worlds energy needs.
But then, we see SM with his MTPU and LTPU devices which are much higher power output but what do we see again, the same SM standard toroid(s) sitting right there in the middle again.
Now logical design progression would indicate that when you have an advancement of one design (STPU/6TPU), you use that and then work out better designs that provide the same or improved technology but with greater output. But in this case while the greater output is true, the design seems to be in regression. He goes forward with more output power but he also steps backwards by using again the design strategy of the first two devices.
So the question is if you had the STPU and 6TPU now on hand both working without the SM standard toroids, then why the hell would you then go back to the toroid designs. Surely the STPU and 6TPU technology could have been upsized to provide both, more output power and no toroid usage. There is something very unnatural about this and because of this, we have trouble trying to make the operational link between all the TPUs.
So then the next question is "what in the Toroid makes it usable in the four TPUs", that was not required in the STPU and 6TPU. To answer this, I have to go back to the first device where SM says "there is no major circuitry in this device....". This is where we can maybe think that the four TPUs were using the Toroid to create both an action of gin and also a self-pulsing via a more passive or non-intrusive method then the pulsing used in the STPU and 6TPU. Basically he was using Toroid coil and internals to create gain and a pulse, whereas the STPU and 6TPU were using pure solid state components. If this is correct, he may have gotten away with his STPU and 6TPU devices and for sure they would produce heat enough to start melting the outer tape wrap, and, for sure those TPU were limited because the components could not handle much more throughput.
So once the STPU and 6TPU were done and SM then went on to his bigger devices, he quickly realized that the main limitation in making them with the Donut Technology was the actual lack of available components that could both handle the pulsing stresses while lasting long enough to do a demo. This for me is why he then used the Toroids again in the MTPU and LTPU. These are providing the required passive switching that sort of isolated the power production and power pulsing sections, hence this is why we see the greater amperage over the toroids. The fact that he had to use two toroids in the LTPU indicates that even the passive switching has its limitations and logical progression of design would indicate that his next TPU after the LTPU would have used three toroids and produced 1200 volts output.
wattsup
I have just early this year experimented with using VHS tape cores as inductive cores material. I was extremely disappointed to find that with 10 turns of wire through the center, I only had about 1 to 2 uH of inductance.
This is not much more than an air core winding of ten turns. I had high hopes the tape could be recycled as a core material, but this shot down those hopes.
@wattsup,
Can we be sure that smaller toroids were not concealed in the STPU and 6TPU and later removed because of serious heating problems within a confined space, restricted perhaps by batteries?
Hoppy
The TPU powering the inverter in the U.E.C. video, weighed in at "only" 12 oz.
Have you placed anything on a scale lately to see how "heavy" 12 oz. realy is?
I have, it's about the weight of my office stapler, or a ceramic mug for coffee. I was under the impression for years that this is a very small weight, maybe not much than just wires and a capacitor or two, but it's a lot heavier than that.
For comparison a 9V alkaline battery is about 1.6 oz. so if you have 10 of them then you're in the ball park. And since I don't belive he had a number of batteries hidden in there, then the question is what gives it the weight? It can not be plastic rings and some wire, it has to be something heavier, or lots and lots of wire perhaps?
EM
P.S. The center toroids seen in the 17" TPU on the table, are not made of plastic or anything else that is not ferromagnetic. To be induced to belive such things is sheer foolishness IMO. C.C
Good points EmDevices about size & weights.
I watched & listened to all of SM's videos & wrote down the size & weights.
========================================================
12 Ounce Open Unit in the 38 Min Film.
OD = 6 inches.
Height = 2 inches.
Thickness = 1 inch.
Output = 186V @ 5 Amps. 7 Amps with a Heat Sink.
============================================
Small 1 Pounder, Open Coil. Took Magnet from his pocket.
OD = 4 inches.
Height = 1 3/4 inches.
Output = 100V @ 1 Amp. 7.3 Hz & 5 KHz.
=================================
5 Inch Unit evaluated at U of C, by Dr Schinzinger
Date: 12-12-95
OD = 4 ¾". ID = 3 "
Thickness = 7/8 "
Height = 2"
Weight = He said Very Light.
Output = 137 V at 1 Amp through a 100 W Bulb.
Luminescence Meter Measured = 2.5
==================================
17 Inch Unit evaluated at U of C, by Dr Schinzinger
Date: 12-12-95
OD = 17". ID = 15 "
Thickness = 1 "
Height = 4"
Weight = He said about 6 pounds.
Output = 614 V
==================================
Small Open Coil, 1 1/2 Pounder:
OD = 6 inches.
Height = 2 inches.
Thickness = 3/4 inches.
Output = 120V @ 5 Amps. 7.3 Hz & 5 KHz.
=================================
Large 17" Open Coil TPU in video.
OD = 17 inches.
Height = 4 inches.
Thickness =
Weight = 6 Pounds.
Output = 830V @ 10 Amps.
=================================
.
The bracket plate that houses the center toroids has the male side of bayonet connectors. Could it be that he simply cannibalized the backside a speaker system? Speaker magnets are heavy.
But I want everyone to look harder! The core of the bucking pair of the center toroids has the wires embedded in the edges. These cores look like they are molded so that they could be hand wound by spec. In other words the grooves would facilitate hand winding to exact specifications. They could still be ferrite and inclusive of what Wattsup said. That would make them heavy as needed to match the weights we are talking about.
Or they could be ferrite with a soft vinyl outer coating.
Quote from: ION on 2011.05.01, 14:15:32
This is the key in my opinion, and can be applied to all the other TPU's. This is the bifilar kick coil. But what is the kick?
Consider that the dielectric between the (zip cord) wires must decrease capacitance slightly due to the repulsion effect between the wires. This is a parametric pumping of the capacitance.
Consider also that the repulsion causes a slight opening and closing of the distance between the wires. How this interacts with ambient or artificial external magnetic fields is to be determined by experiment. Is this a magnetic gating effect?
Parametric amplifier with varying capacitance attached. Reducing the capacitance increases the voltage.
Does reducing permeabilty increase current?
According to the basic operating principle of the magnetic amplifier, reducing permeability increases power. This reminds me of SM's comments about allowing electrons to flow easier.
And this is why Bolt introduced heterodyning. The implications are inherent. It includes multiple signals, mixing strategies, standing waves, feedback and harmonics.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.05.02, 20:56:52
Parametric amplifier with varying capacitance attached. Reducing the capacitance increases the voltage.
Does reducing permeabilty increase current?
A Page (http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html) with numerous links which may shed some light onto
the workings of the TPU.
For what it's worth and to put this to bed, I have done countless hours of research on those white cores used in the SM TPU's.
Believe what you will, but common mode chokes are used in the audio industry in combination with dual voice coil woofers to cancel out the high frequencies common to the left and right channels.
We know that SM worked with dual voice coil woofers, as some of the SPHERIC LABS designs used a central woofer in combination with satellite speakers. The high frequency information for channels left and right are cancelled in the CMC and LF information fed to the dual voice coil woofer.
From Spheric:
QuoteAs part of experiments, associated with what would become his 3D spacial control patents, he was using these delay elements with custom made bifilar wound voice coils (i.e. air coils) and unexpectedly detected an anomolous signal on his spectrum analyser.
A bifilar voice coil is a dual voice coil.
An efficient way to prevent high frequencies from being absorbed by the central woofer would be to use a common mode choke.
Attached is a paper from the audio industry showing how this is done.
We should be considering the unique properties of a common mode audio grade choke
i.e galvanic isolation and pulse mirroring.Endless speculation will get us no where, we need to use common sense and consider the industry SM was involved in, what he might have been experimenting with, and what might have been on hand.
Additionally I have seen common mode chokes very similar to what SM used in a surplus store that I used to frequent in the 80's and 90's. It is unfortunately out of business.
I'm with you on your line of thinking ION, but just to play a bit of Devil's advocate, one could argue that the cross-over would take care of most of those high frequencies before they got to the woofer, then the woofer itself (considered part of the cross-over) would take care of the rest.
Perhaps though from a purist perspective, if the HF can be canceled rather than filtered, that may be a better option.
Just my 2c.
Regards,
.99
Quote from: poynt99 on 2011.05.03, 14:41:51
I'm with you on your line of thinking ION, but just to play a bit of Devil's advocate, one could argue that the cross-over would take care of most of those high frequencies before they got to the woofer, then the woofer itself (considered part of the cross-over) would take care of the rest.
Perhaps though from a purist perspective, if the HF can be canceled rather than filtered, that may be a better option.
Just my 2c.
Regards,
.99
Yes, the inductance of the woofer is part of the filtering process, but a speaker is also a generator and with lower powered amps, Damping Factor comes into play which can muddy the highs.
The CMC is just a more efficient way of doing the crossover function, which would otherwise require large separate coils for each of the left and right channels. Note that the data sheet showed -3db @ 636 Hz.
Nowadays, with so much power available in amps, people don't really care and drive the voice coils directly from the amps.
It is still not a perfect solution as bi-amping would be best, eliminating any possible saturation problems.
But purists would care.
Quote from: SphericsAs part of experiments, associated with what would become his 3D spacial control patents, he was using these delay elements with custom made bifilar wound voice coils (i.e. air coils) and unexpectedly detected an anomolous signal on his spectrum analyser.
How did SM conclude that he had discovered a source of additional energy?
Spherics mentioned a couple of different methods to see what he termed and ether oscillation, but is there an easy way to show extra energy?
@Ion,
Amazing...
Are you invisible guys guys looking over my shoulder?
I reread the AVEC document last night and found Spherics description and specifications for the aether return energy. Having reproduced this with Jason I know that all the devices and attempts are based upon this process. How exact do we want to get? The more exact the closer to drawing lightning to the coils as mentioned by Spherics about one of Bob Boyce's tests.
I also ran across that speaker picture and documentation also. The magnetic assembly looks akin to the description that Wattsup gave about the voice coils.
After I saw the intermittent slight ringing in the Magnacoaster setup I realized there is a better way to get this so I switched focus to the last build I have of the 3 layer rings from SM in the brown paper schematics. This description is in Grumpy's last set of posts of SM and in Spheric's AVEC documents.
This build is also a full circumerence wind whereas the ECD is a partial circumference wind. And we have all seen the eclipsing event that Jason accomplished. My ECD build was a more exacting build directly from the Ottos and Ronotte's document. I am hestiant to turn it on. But the brown paper schematic is an even more exacting specification. I was curious about the cmos buffers pointing into the coils from both sides. They are facilitating two artifacts. Because they are facing each other as the 2 frequencies are driven against each other this will cause very, very fast eclisping events as the buffers alternate between sink and source operation while conducting very small amounts of current. The voltage is also low. This is the control I was looking for. It is my belief, based on the coils pulling in lightning, that this type of coil can be a veritable bomb if indescrimitantly pulsed in the correct sequences. Like the ECD only more so. Instead of a light bulb becoming the fuse the coil becomes the fuse. And since the conductor is larger than an incandescent filament the conduction window would remain longer therefore enabling a larger event. Why is this a concern? I have no trouble blowing shit up. It is my nature.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.05.03, 16:22:12
How did SM conclude that he had discovered a source of additional energy?
Spherics mentioned a couple of different methods to see what he termed and ether oscillation, but is there an easy way to show extra energy?
I would guess we have to get hold of some dual voice coil speakers that are bifilar wound, add some delay elements and do some careful snooping with a good spectrum analyzer.
Remember the coils in a speaker are immersed in a magnetic field. Perhaps SM also tested them independent of a mag field, as the soft iron magnetic return structure might have nullified the effect.
Possibly a weak magnetic DC bias field was necessary so small weak magnets (like those thin rectangular ones Radio Shack sold) were placed in the vicinity to help start the effect.
In my opinion, this is the area we need to pursue (as Peterae and Grumpy have). I lack a really good spectrum analyzer. Maybe I can borrow one. PC software versions probably won't do it.
Again in my opinion, the Ronnette/Otto document is inconclusive, plus we should not have to build such a complicated structure to show the "effect". A simple lab experiment following the leads given by SM and Spheric should be enough.
If anyone has conclusive evidence otherwise, let him post it in a pdf document that can be tested and replicated by others.
@ION,
I wound a bifilar, zip cord, on a toilet paper role, and drove that with two of Jason's SSR boards. The event appeared on a 20mghz scope. Grumpy then posted 'put it on a ring' configuration. That is what I have on the bench now. I believe Groundloop is the person whom has posted this event and setup on youtube.
Quote from: ION on 2011.05.03, 17:33:22
I would guess we have to get hold of some dual voice coil speakers that are bifilar wound, add some delay elements and do some careful snooping with a good spectrum analyzer.
Remember the coils in a speaker are immersed in a magnetic field. Perhaps SM also tested them independent of a mag field, as the soft iron magnetic return structure might have nullified the effect.
Possibly a weak magnetic DC bias field was necessary so small weak magnets (like those thin rectangular ones Radio Shack sold) were placed in the vicinity to help start the effect.
In my opinion, this is the area we need to pursue (as Peterae and Grumpy have). I lack a really good spectrum analyzer. Maybe I can borrow one. PC software versions probably won't do it.
Again in my opinion, the Ronnette/Otto document is inconclusive, plus we should not have to build such a complicated structure to show the "effect". A simple lab experiment following the leads given by SM and Spheric should be enough.
If anyone has conclusive evidence otherwise, let him post it in a pdf document that can be tested and replicated by others.
JDO300, myself, and others have experimented with pulsed electric field and permanent magnets. From the violent magnet movement, and strong pumping of the magnetic field that results, I expect that SM encountered some serious thumping in his speakers. I don't mean a typical bass thump, I mean more like a tear the cone thump. "Holy Crap!" thumping.
Peter, if you read this, wrap a bifilar coil for a speaker and apply your delayed pulses. Bada-BOOM!Now, spectrum analyzer or not, when I apply a small audio signal to my speaker and I get KA-BOOM out of it, I am inclined to think that something anomalous has occured, and ask myself: "Where did all of that energy come from?".
Dual voice coil assemblies can be had on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-D2-VOICE-COIL-Alpine-TC-Sound-Splinter-Pulse-RU-/220651530902?pt=Car_Subwoofers_Enclosures&hash=item335fdb2a96
or you can wind your own.
It comes from the inherent atomic magnetic domain we are in. It is like existing inside a bell or balloon. A strike of a certain speed returns an echo from the whole inside surface to the center. In otherwords it is an event that the surrounding forces cannot permit to exist for a slow amount of time therefore the tear is closed quite rapidly. Bam! The event is dimished at a very high speed. And the ripple can be felt.
Now in my tests the bifilar was interleaved. SM stated this permits a partial cancelling. Spherics stated the multiple paths must be overlayed and not comingled.
@ION,
ordered 2.
Bibhas De called it a companion wave and explained how the electric field, and it's velocity interact with a magnetic field to amplify magnetic flux.
Its only a companion when you can view it safely. :o ;D
I can say that it would be very interesting to drive one of these fitted in the speaker and see the result of my crackling then, are all speakers bifilar or just some.
Not all. You could tell by the number of terminal connections. Is this what you mean?
Quote from: Peterae on 2011.05.03, 20:33:33
I can say that it would be very interesting to drive one of these fitted in the speaker and see the result of my crackling then, are all speakers bifilar or just some.
i see, so you are saying a bifilar wound voice coil and speaker has 3 terminals, if so then that makes it easier to spot them on ebay Thanks O0
some have four terminal, positioned on opposite sides of the magnet
From Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk/16-5cm-Voice-Ceiling-Speaker-Tweeters/dp/B000NVUF1K
Hmm
some are wound in diferent ways:
Sequentially wound:
http://www.mobilefantasy.com/images/faqs/dvc.bmp
I got hits for bifilar wound dual voice coil speakers but no images of one.
Might be best to wind your own.
Hey, couldn't we just hold a magnetic speaker near a pulsing coil, or near the bifilar coil? The pulse form the coil will still amplify the magnetic field and this will be converted by the speaker.
OUR web site invents the speaker generator. News at 6:00
Thanks G
The one on amazon seems to have 2 separate speakers built in as well.
Although i have never been exposed to professional sound equipment, i am surprised i have never seen these before.
I take it each bifilar coil is driven using a crossover or something of the like from a single amp channel
it would be a good way for sniffing out power levels using a spectrum analyser i would think, our main problem is being able to spot more energy out, so if we were to measure the dB across a spectrum and compare the energy in the driven frequencies to those that appear across the band then we may be able to spot this new channel that opens up and see instantly how much power it contains by remotely listening to the spectrum.
how is audio power measured in a room, is it just a case of a mike driven amp and calibrating for dB
News? Well well well..........
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8003.msg199820#msg199820
???
Spider
I ordered those specified and I see four leads at the top. That tells me 2 winds.
Quote from: Peterae on 2011.05.03, 21:44:50
how is audio power measured in a room, is it just a case of a mike driven amp and calibrating for dB
The audience will stay for the whole show. ;D
@ Spider,
In the first page of that thread where the picture is, the side windings are the exact same thing that Marco showed on his notched PVC coil. There was a top one and a bottom one. The horizontal core that had the spaced winding was insulated in black so that is what Jason and I did. But later on I felt this could have been steel wire. Also Bruce_tpu sent me two 18"coils where the spaced winding was iron wire.
Geza Korcsmaros states on page one in a letter to Lester Hendershot that magnetic fields have a resonant frequency and that they can be put in a state of resonance with pulsed DC. As you recall, we have mentioned that pulsed DC may amplify a magnetic field.
How could an "aether vortex" be related to the resonant frequency of a magnetic field?
Korcsmaros mentions an EM Shift at Paricutin (Mexico)
Quote
Paricutin
The story of the volcano of Paricutin in Michoacán State, Mexico, is a curious one - one that explains how a volcano literally appeared on the face of the Earth overnight. In February 1943, the community of Paricutin, who were accustomed to the occasional tremors that the seismically active sub-geology created, witnessed a cornfield literally crack open in front of them, with an accompanying deafening rumble. Witnesses spoke of the very strong smell of sulphur that escaped from the crack in the earth, followed by billowing grey ash-laden smoke.
The villagers fled the cornfield, realising that something sinister was about to happen, although upon returning the following morning, instead of seeing the same crack in the ground, they saw a large volcanic cone sticking out of the ground (about 4 metres tall). Within the next 12 hours, the cone protruded further out of the ground, and started to expel rock, ash and lava. Soon the entire cornfield had vanished, leaving nothing but a mass of molten lava.
Although the volcanic eruption was minimal, seeing as the actual volcano was relatively tiny, the fascinating factor about this volcano is that it continued to grow over the following weeks, months. Damage to crops, houses, livestock and other property was extensive, but no one's life was directly taken as a result of the eruption.
One year later, the volcano was a mountain with a height of just over 400 metres. The volcano seemed to stop growing and stop showing signs of activity in 1952, although an eruption in 1949 took the lives of approximately 1 000 people.
The reason why Paricutin has a respectable spot in the top seven natural wonders of the world is because it is the most recent volcano to have formed in the geologic history of the planet. It has therefore provided geologists and vulcanologists with ample material for studying the origin and behaviour of newly-formed volcanoes.
The magnetic fields of flowing lava are random and then coelesce into parality of a larger magnetic bonding as it cools producing a encompassing magnetic field. Which is portrayed in its crystaline like structure. PALEOMAGNETISM...
Bibhas De:
It represents a spatial and temporal oscillation of the magneteic pressure or magnetic energy density in the medium, the energy being transported back and forth with velocity of c, and parallel to the direction of wave propagation.
Iron cores of any type in a TPU?
Every opinion stated about those thinking the small toroid is anything but a CMC or not containing a ferrite core... back at those thinking it is anything but iron-less...
Really! Am I the only one seeing that the visible winding is ONE winding with reversed wrap direction in the middle?
How many are aware the top of the line audio systems will not use an iron core cross-over coil because of the noise inherent from the Barkhausen effect?
Testing the idea of it being a CMC is an easy task if you can make the use of a CMC work in your TPU concept. I have nothing to offer on that idea except I've wasted enough time trying to make a CMC fit in any TPU concept.
Ok, since opinions are free....
I think it is an increductor. Yep, the name is worth Googling. This is an inductor with a semi-saturating core, using a high impedance winding with DC current in it to change the inductance. Or the winding is very low impedance and used high current for control of inductance of cross-over 'air' core coils.
It's an old technique (usually nowadays this kind of thing is only used for flux-gate magnetometers) but a goodie. Also used in early television sets.
Built with some imagination it can also act as variable signal delay line :)
For those thinking about eBay'ing a bifilar voice coil - go ahead and grab the one most common... the ones that were used in the speaker basket with the radial magnetic field setup. The only bifilar dual voice coils I've ran into were two separate bifilar coils in one radial magnetic speaker basket. One of the coils was used as an output.
I never bothered to find out what the output was for and doubt the information would be useful.
In reference to the toroidal core things, say you had a working generator that had an output proportional to it's input or some aspect of the input. You feed too much back and you get too much out.
So how might you limit the fed-back power to keep the device in a safe operating range?
QuoteReally! Am I the only one seeing that the visible winding is ONE winding with reversed wrap direction in the middle?
Nope. Moab and Otto had displayed too.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.05.04, 00:06:28
In reference to the toroidal core things, say you had a working generator that had an output proportional to it's input or some aspect of the input. You feed too much back and you get too much out.
So how might you limit the fed-back power to keep the device in a safe operating range?
Well, if the toroidal core things were built the way I suspect I would simply shunt some of the current away from that reversed outer winding. There might be a better way but the more current going through them the stronger the 'squeezing the hose' would be. I would just wire a big wire-wound rheostat in parallel with that outer winding and use that for adjustment.
It would need to be high wattage as the load current (DC) would be going through it and the outer winding of the small TPU.... I mean small toroid 8)
The OTPU has no "collector coils".
Based on what is known about the effect of HV DC pulses amplifying a magnetic field, and Spherics' details on DC bias, was can be fairly certain that the OTPU used biased DC or AC (with the bifilar coil method) and that the "gain" appeared as "bias amplification". So, SM could have smoothed out the biased pulsed output to get a fairly smooth DC and ran this back to the control circuits.
The patent of Energia Celeste utilizes this same effect. Note that they state that the resulting magnetic field is several thousands times greater in amplitude than the static field of the magnet.
Do any here comprehend how deep the rabbit hole goes? You can apply the basic principle of these devices to make motors far more efficient than any conventional method. Electric vehicles are just the snow-flake on the tip of the iceberg.
In the Energia Celeste Patent they claim 20kw equivalent shaft horsepower with only 0.84 watts input. That is phenomenal!
are there any known examples of a replication, or a working device that can be seen.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.05.04, 15:03:38
Do any here comprehend how deep the rabbit hole goes? You can apply the basic principle of these devices to make motors far more efficient than any conventional method. Electric vehicles are just the snow-flake on the tip of the iceberg.
You must be know how deep it is, hence you claim know how free energy devices works. All of them.
However I think, there is no way, you share with us a proof of concept experiment, or any where measurable energy gain appear.
So in the end, you can continue posting any informations what you think is relevant, you will not help much in others thinking process in most of the time,just drive their attention away from their works, or make them more confused.
Good work Grumpy, at least you still have the most posts in the site.
If you think I want more information from you,you are wrong, I just had enough of your claiming and linking crap. :-X
Why is it that some people cannot perform the simplest of experiments, yet continually press for more "proof"? I know there is never enough proof for some people. They will always discount the proof and explain it away.
1. Wind a solenoid coil of any dimensions, with at least 1000 feet of wire, or use the entire spool.
2. Pulse this coil with HV DC pulses of at least 2kv, any repetition rate
3. Using your calibrated "hand", hold a magnet near the coil while it is pulsing.
You will feel very strong pulsing from the magnet and it will try to move in your hand. My claim is that the magnetic field amplitude is increased by the HV pulse electric field. In my humble opinion, this is the basic principle of all perported OU devices.
Here it is again, Chef. Are you going to try it, or just talk about "no proof" and "no experiments"?
Will anyone try it, or am I on my own here?
Another experiment that does not require pulsing the HV coil is to connect one terminal of a HV DC power supply to a magnet and measure the magnetic field in some way with and without the HV. Franicis Nipher claimed that the magnetic field is made stronger and that the permeability of space around the magnet was increased.
To measure is very simple:
Perform the test Grumpy has mentioned. Without any power take a hall effect at a certain distance lets say 2 inches.
Measure the spike while passing the hall past the magnet.
Power on the coil.
Take measurement at same distance.
But wait! How does one measure just the magnet flux with the hall being effected by the HV coil flux?
Separate the coil and the magnet. So now we have a three stage linear setup.
At a prescribed distance of the hall in this set up remove the magnet, power on the coil, and measure the hall effect.
Now we have the basis of the coil.
Power off coil.
Put magnet back in middle stage of set up.
Measure the hall effect.
Power on coil.
Measure hall effect.
Is the hall effect ceiling greater than the sum of the two prior stages of the set up?
Instead of using a hall effect one can use a color EGA monitor.
@ Grumpy,
Yes, the same process is all over the place.
The current build I have matches close to the Energia Celeste.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=369.msg5365#msg5365 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=369.msg5365#msg5365)
Even since 1928...
Had the disbelievers played connect the dots over the years they too would be at place that gets the bigger view from atop the shoulders of those greater...
And then a graduation occurs...
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.05.04, 17:34:14
3. Using your calibrated "hand", hold a magnet near the coil while it is pulsing.
You will feel very strong pulsing from the magnet and it will try to move in your hand. My claim is that the magnetic field amplitude is increased by the HV pulse electric field. In my humble opinion, this is the basic principle of all perported OU devices.
I don't see how can you be sure, if there is some added momentum...
I'm sure there are some guy here, who could prove to you by common science there isn't any. :P
@Chef,
Well what else could there be that anybody for the last 120 years couldn't see in Tesla's work. As far as I am concerned the disbelief has presided over the group mindset propogated by the disbelievers or some overarching controlling group that has purposefully kept the process under wraps.
The different levels of the involved from the bottom up:
MIB, TROLLs, Trollers, Nay sayers, Disbelievers, Noobs, amazed, astonished, curious, questioners, posters, experimenters, librarians,extolers, pontificators, pontifs, minor popes, small gods, oldheads, suspects.
If you are to disbelieve these people(Mark Twain,Robert Underwood Johnson,Katharine Underwood Johnson,and George Westinghouse, Paderewski, Roentgen, the discoverer of x-rays and Tesla. All these men became friends and became famous.) then your back is against the wall.
If you have the audacity to not believe then you are up against the many and mighty pens of these people. And that makes you 'alone'.
Only the foolish argue with history.
Quote from: Chef on 2011.05.04, 19:10:21
I don't see how can you be sure, if there is some added momentum...
I'm sure there are some guy here, who could prove to you by common science there isn't any. :P
The trick is produce slow energy, like we use these days, from the highly excited ejective output that is easy to do.
Lookie here:
It took a long time to reach this conclusion, but these devices alter the density of fields by changing the scalar gradient, resulting in amplification of magnification of the energy. No hocus pocus.
I don't care what others think.
I noticed Grumpy's posting:
Quote1. Wind a solenoid coil of any dimensions, with at least 1000 feet of wire, or use the entire spool.
2. Pulse this coil with HV DC pulses of at least 2kv, any repetition rate
3. Using your calibrated "hand", hold a magnet near the coil while it is pulsing.
If I may say so you guys should talk about the basic "mechanics" with respect to pulsing a coil with high voltage. I think it's really important to understand that.
It's no different for lower voltages also in terms of the basic mechanics so you could do some basic bench experiments without having an insanely dangerous high voltage source to worry about. You can even "slow down time" and run experiments with longer lower voltage pulses and extrapolate how that applies to shorter higher-voltage pulses.
The coil performs voltage integration. The signal that's generated from the integration process corresponds to the amount of current flowing through the coil. That's it in a nutshell.
But once the pulse is over what happens? It depends on the load. If the load is air you get a spark.
Anyway, don't let me stop your speculative discussions. My suggestion deserves a thread by itself. You guys should go on that journey together. You are all fascinated with pulsing coils with high voltage, so why not talk about a very basic setup and understand all of the dynamics. Find good links and post them. You can then apply that knowledge to your own research.
I will cast out the first link! lol
http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_rlc-l.htm (http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_rlc-l.htm)
Quote from: MileHigh on 2011.05.05, 03:03:33
If I may say so you guys should talk about the basic "mechanics" with respect to pulsing a coil with high voltage. I think it's really important to understand that.
The effect that I am referring to is totally unrelated to "basic mechanics" of inductors. I think it's really important to understand that.
The only thing that I have found in literature that appears related are Francis Nipher's experiments, Tesla's measurements of storms with magnetometers, and experiments regarding the Rontgen Current and Wilson Effect.
@Grumpy,
Yes. It relates closer to magnets as a fuel source. Focusing more on the flux like Leedskalnin was pointing towards.
An excellent mechanical model is Smith's and Muller's wheeled generators where there is an alumium plate with holes in it to spin between two plates of energized coils. This looks like Magnacoaster and Kunel also.
Quote from: MileHigh on 2011.05.05, 03:03:33
You are all fascinated with pulsing coils with high voltage, so why not talk about a very basic setup and understand all of the dynamics.
I wouldn't paint everyone with that broad brush.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2011.05.05, 15:54:42
@Grumpy,
Yes. It relates closer to magnets as a fuel source. Focusing more on the flux like Leedskalnin was pointing towards.
An excellent mechanical model is Smith's and Muller's wheeled generators where there is an alumium plate with holes in it to spin between two plates of energized coils. This looks like Magnacoaster and Kunel also.
It's using what has always been there, but pretty much ignored.
The diagram I put up is only to show you guys there is more to the toroid then meets the eye. Remember one day I showed something under the FTPU center that resembled the diaphragm of a microphone. Well imagine that whitish spot is the underside of the core material in my diagram. Like a rivet holding speaker core to a plate.
Also, I think I know now why the TPU had the shapes they have.
What happens if you run a wire around the four walls of your office making a loop that you pulse to let's say 50,000 hz. We already know that any pick-up coil inside the loop with the same resonance will respond but the same pick-up coil outside the loop will not. This is what SM is doing with his outer rings. I would call them energy delimiters because they produce a space inside the TPU that becomes highly charged with any pulsing activity.
The FTPU had two rings of approx 2 1/4 turns and the toroid pick up was located center on top.
Now take the four OTPU rim wound coils and straighten them out and put them in one length. Could you make at least 2 1/4 turns of the rim with that one total length. Or close to it. Now if that length of wire had two conductors in it, this would equal the FTPU with the exception that the rings are close coupled and for this SM put his Toroid vertically behind the circuit board. The OTPU rings produce a more planner field because both rings are coupled together, whereas the FTPU rings are apart about 1.5 inches providing more physical space between them.
Now go to the LTPU. The toroids are much further from the outer rings and to compensate for this distance SM raised the outer walls to arrive at the same or almost same diameter to height ratio as the FTPU. The LTPU is a supped up version of a DUAL FTPU.
Now look at the MTPU with its outer wall ring that I had always thought to be so inordinately high compared to the LTPU. I think because of this, once SM made the LTPU and realized the MTPU walls were way to high for nothing, he did not mind at all using it in the cut-away sequences.
When you start to finally pull away the fat from the friction, the bacon starts smelling really nice.
wattsup
PS: At OU in the Energy Magnification thread I recently showed some coil diagrams and an animation of how I finally realize the pulsing happens in a coil or even a loop. It shows that there is really only the pulsed side half that is really changing from positive to negative at each pulse. The same applies to a ring. That is why you have 2 1/4 turns of a loop so you at least have one complete loop that is pulsing.
Quote from: MileHigh on 2011.05.05, 03:03:33
If I may say so you guys should talk about the basic "mechanics" with respect to pulsing a coil with high voltage. I think it's really important to understand that.
MH,
I'm just curious - not trying to start something....
You seem to only use the mobility analog or think of RLC circuits as always being in parallel.
You must be aware that an inductor does not fit the spring analogy in all cases. Even when it does the analogy is inverse, the spring has no mass, there can only be one current flow and one end of the coil must be at ground or a non-varying potential.
Surely, in an equal number of cases a capacitor is analogous with a spring (also inverse) and the inductor with mass - as in the impedance analog.
Maybe you are keeping it simple for us?
Lots more work to do, but I have concluded that feeding magnified energy back through the magnifier (so to speak), magnifies the energy again. I had always thought that the feedback issue was just a lack of regulation, but this is not the case.
SM holds the 4" tpu down by his side and the light is on.
SM flips the OTPU and says it doesn't work upside down but doesnt know why.
SM never flips the bigger ones over.
So what do I think of the statement about the OTPU? The open TPU has the first center toroid thingy.
The 4" unit does not. The center toroid thingy is a smaller model of the 4".
In a speaker coil the coil is suspended by the paper cone. The TPU doesnt have a paper cone. So in the CTT the coil is suspended/held aloft from below on a repulsion magnet. Flip it over and the magnet is laying on its top unable to move.
But then how does the 4" do its job? Is the voice coil in the circumference to move freely?
In the square is the voice coil? The bifilar wire goes into it.
The magnetic wave is the after effect of kinetic transmission of the aether shock. That would make the concentric flux fields/spheres standing waves of a polarized medium.
@GK
Regarding your questions about the STPU and 6TPU donut TPUs and their differences from the other TPUs, mainly the central toroid, I have posted at EI on the 6TPU today and will also post on the STPU more things.
There is one key question to answer: "Is the STPU center in fact open or not".
If I remember in the past I noticed it was not but did not make such a big thing of it. If it is not, then we can easily presume that SM made the STPU using the center toroid as the main active component since it is very close to that diameter. This would also confirm him using a toroid in the 6TPU as well and thus remove any other mystery regarding a common link between all devices.
I will let you know about this soon enough.
Also, your post in the companion wave thread was top notch and explains very well the intricate balance between measuring and being measured. It is like jumping in a lake and trying to measure which part of your body is the wettest. If ether is part of everything, then it is a part of the measurements ever since Faraday and others set the standard, which includes the ether in the final results. Reality plus ether = present day results. The object is to better understand what the ether play is in order to fashion our devices to increase its focus at will. How ether plays in the coil, in the coupling process, how to use a coil as bait and what nets to use to catch the ether in a way that is manageable and not create runaway conditions. Even if we had OU today, these questions would still require answers in the years to come to better master its usage otherwise our OU TPUs of today will resemble the ramming clubs of our cave dwelling forefathers.
wattsup
Quote from: ION on 2011.05.01, 14:15:32
The open TPU uses zipcord terminated at one end.This is clearly seen from the video clips. Possibly there are four of these or maybe just one continuous length.
In my opinion, the other TPU's must have a variation of this zipcord terminated at one end. (We do see this in the SM17 See reply #6 in this thread http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=360.0 )The zipcord is clearly seen in this video capture of the SM17.
This is the key in my opinion, and can be applied to all the other TPU's. This is the bifilar kick coil. But what is the kick?
Consider that the dielectric between the (zip cord) wires must decrease capacitance slightly due to the repulsion effect between the wires. This is a parametric pumping of the capacitance.
Consider also that the repulsion causes a slight opening and closing of the distance between the wires. How this interacts with ambient or artificial external magnetic fields is to be determined by experiment. Is this a magnetic gating effect?
So in my opinion, the OTPU is the key to all the others. As Spheric said "The longer the length of copper the better but using identical lengths."
The bifilar zip cord is just a lot longer in the larger TPU's.
I believe the saturable inductors are used to create high peak currents of short duration from a small oscillator in order to create the required repulsion effect between the zipcord wire pairs.
The OTPU was wound on discarded plastic spacers from speaker grille assemblies. The FTPU was wound on the rim of a plastic wire spool. The evidence overwhelmingly supports this, no need to go down that rabbit hole looking for exotic core materials. There was no core. All of the TPU's were very light in weight for their size.
The only devices with cores were the saturable reactors.
Physical motion of an object creates scalar waves. This exact means of scalar wave production and many others have been investigated by Gregory Hodowanec. He has a good article out on the web since the 1980's. I had dismissed it before, but a sequential physical motion around a coil formed into a loop could create a rotating scalar field. Of course these are fast movements of low mass and I would guess that the parametric pumping of the capacitance would produce denser scalar waves.
Hi G
Glad you found that piece of info interesting.
I will continue to research how to pump the bifilar with high current pulses.
The zipcord can be viewed as a transmission line terminated at both ends. The length would be critical. The impedance of the pumping circuit would be critical also, which is why I believe he used the saturable inductors forced to saturation at resonance and real short circuit (Lo Z) at one end, virtual short at the driven end. This creates maximum reflections trapping the energy in the line.
The effect would be lost if the open end of the line went hi impedance during the non pulsed time periods.
This is why voltage pulsing doesn't work well, you need current injection. Think Lo Z at the driven end also. Like a laser with mirrors at each end. The energy is allowed to build by reflection.
Quote from: ION on 2011.05.18, 19:37:12
Hi G
Glad you found that piece of info interesting.
I will continue to research how to pump the bifilar with high current pulses.
The zipcord can be viewed as a transmission line terminated at both ends. The length would be critical. The impedance of the pumping circuit would be critical also, which is why I believe he used the saturable inductors forced to saturation at resonance and real short circuit (Lo Z) at one end, virtual short at the driven end. This creates maximum reflections trapping the energy in the line.
The effect would be lost if the open end of the line went hi impedance during the non pulsed time periods.
This is why voltage pulsing doesn't work well, you need current injection. Think Lo Z at the driven end also. Like a laser with mirrors at each end. The energy is allowed to build by reflection.
Transmission line theory for EM waves may not apply to scalar waves. Propagating the scalar wave in a circle is the key. This way they can reinforce themselves.
High voltage does work well in the right setting.
What is the working fluid of a capacitive pump?
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.05.24, 03:49:03
Transmission line theory for EM waves may not apply to scalar waves. Propagating the scalar wave in a circle is the key. This way they can reinforce themselves.
High voltage does work well in the right setting.
What is the working fluid of a capacitive pump?
I'm mostly out of the loop on this but I found my way to this older thread by way of some current discussion and had a thought about something I don't recall seeing before in TPU discussion. Relating to Grumpy's post above when I hear 'scalar' I think Cauduceus winding. Has anyone every tried a TPU with the control windings wound Caduceus style?
Hi Folks,
Look what are in the news:
http://www.columnpk.com/shahzaib-hussain-invents-worlds-cheapest-way-to-produce-electricity-from-magnetic-field/
Islamabad: 17 Years Old Pakistani College Student Shahzaib Hussain from Quetta figures out a away to produce electricity with Earth's Magnetic Field. He said that this is the world's cheapest way to produce electric from earth's magnetic field. Shahzaib Hussain also invited in the US in World's 1500 Intelligent students competition. Shahzaib Hussain studying in Army Public School & College Quetta.
This news turned out for me when I searched for the name Shabzaib Hussain, mentioned by a member in the Kapanadze thread:
http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg311238/#msg311238
Gyula
Thanks for that heads up gyula
Here is the sim from ali ....his friend with a modification of a switch by me
Some of you guys should try it ... Just download multisim .. trial is free . He says that the circuit works the same !
3 parallel hexfets a tuned circuit and a float cap ...with a 5v 1 khz dds drive surely it cant possiby be this simple !
I found rise times of the generator to be critical ..as did Ali
Its well worth discussion even if just in sim mode
I'm pretty sure it is off this threads topic .. just not completely sure ..yet
Hi gridbias,
In the past I used to do several circuit simulations by very expensive circuit simulator softwares I had had access at my work but I did not have any success in finding a circuit that would produce any extra output beyond the input. Ali wrote at overunity.com that NI's Multisim or Orcad shows extra output but LTSpice for instance does not.
My opinion is that circuit simulators are very good tools for somebody wishing to "perfect" a certain circuit setup, to check many "what if" questions etc but I do not believe in simulations showing more output over the input because I have not managed to achieve any extra output over the input with any such fancy simulated circuit, not to mention looping in practice. What is even more important, I have not seen anyone building a electrical circuit in practice that measurably gave higher output vs input. Possibly there are some such circuits like Steven Marks TPU or that of Kapanadze but until a third or fourth party replicates and confirms the COP > 1 we are in the believe state...
I do hope Ali is going to show a video on his practical circuit which is already built from off the shelf components and not built from software modelled ones in his computer. Hopefully his practical results will reflect back to his simulations in the output / input power ratio too...
Ali's circuit simulation is probably an off topic in this thread, hopefully Grumpy forgives us for mentioning this here, though my news link on getting electricity from the Earth's magnetic field may not be off topic, lol.
Gyula
The sims cannot show junction surface or batch impurities. When 2 or more devices are connected together the junction variables can perform disfunctions.
I.E. Are conduction or field harmonics in the sims?
1. download multisim 11 , it is free for a period long enought to try this , other wise torrent it
2. load sim
3. switch on and you wont believe what you see
4. alter values at will , even a single irf 540 shows self run phenomenon
5. scratch head
6. conclude that it is a sim error ( and it realistically should be)
7. decide that ali was lying about building it in practice and having his globe run for many days
My initial conclusion is that when the mosfets are ideally switched ( rise time ) the phenomenon simulates well ... something worthy of investigation by the members here in any case
300 uh is a value used by all expensive pi metal detectors
I'll try playing with the FG rise time again and see if I can get sustained oscillation. Right now, only for about 20ms, then it falls off with 100 Ohm load.
The first, and possibly most important "problem" with Ali's simulation, is he is NOT using any resistance in series with the inductor! This is a MUST if you are to expect realistic results. Even as little as 0.01 Ohm could mean the difference between something that appears to be OU and something that clearly is not OU.
I would suggest you try inserting some resistance in there Lindsay.
.99
yes ..resistance there does indeed make it reasonable ... thanks ..still fiddling though
edit .1 ohm and it still runs
Ok.
Out of curiosity, see what power the 4700uF capacitor is delivering. Are you getting 800W in the load resistor?
Darren,
The origional sim already has this part covered .
Have you looked at this in multisim? If not, please do so. Your experience is valuable.
I am so surprised that this could even be simulated so well even if it only when collection of errors make it so.
Many people will be convinced by this impressive error congregation.
That would mean that the origionator was lying about it ..that would be a sad conclusion, but if so then the sooner we know the better.
Building might be the quickest way to be almost sure.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.02.03, 22:14:05
The sims cannot show junction surface or batch impurities. When 2 or more devices are connected together the junction variables can perform disfunctions.
I.E. Are conduction or field harmonics in the sims?
Hi GK,
I have not used Multisim Ali uses but it is surely a conventional Spice based circuit simulator so the answer to your questions is surely no.
Gyula
Quote from: gyula on 2012.02.04, 21:09:41
Hi GK,
I have not used Multisim Ali uses but it is surely a conventional Spice based circuit simulator so the answer to your questions is surely no.
Gyula
Exactly...
The very, I mean very!, high speed switching that takes place hits the coil. It's like the pumping action of a Tesla coil secondary. It looks like a bias field to the spark gapped strike of the primary.
Is there a simulator that will actually take into account the mobius connected coils with the field effects other than normal transformer coupling?
I will make an attempt to use the sim file in multisim. Maybe Ali was alluding to the sim shows the start of the process but the rest of the work has to happen in real time in a circuit.
something to play with that is more like a build ..play with the switches ..there is a "turbine effect"
Something to shoot for on the bench regardless of the non reported effor in simulation .
Trouble is, if this simple circuit can be made to work anything like the sim then we are all idiots
Quote from: gridbias on 2012.02.04, 23:42:06
something to play with that is more like a build ..play with the switches ..there is a "turbine effect"
Something to shoot for on the bench regardless of the non reported effor in simulation.
Trouble is, if this simple circuit can be made to work anything like the sim then we are all idiots
Quoteidiots. We are...
The companion wave generation is the specific timing for this switching / non conduction process in which everyone seeks.
The actual key is linking the compwave generation to a configuration which enables resonance.
It produces traveling waves at a very high frequency. This level is at the production of where coils operate differently. I have had the trumpet wave form many times until finally it filled the scope screen solidly. I did not tap it. That test consumed current. I want to see if I can get something to tap of off using the compwave instead of pure magnetic flux. Mag flux is easily derived by using current. If one were to be adverse to current then raise the voltage.
These are the minimal parameters I have collapsed this down to.
My thinking lately has been the secondary or trinary coils with high inductance, like small video transformers. When verticle they would look like the open TPU legs. When horizontal they would fit neatly into a slim box.
I don't think the sims would clearly encompass the switching effects that the multi-connected conduction devices exhibit in reality or real time. This process / effect is non standard. So how could it be in a simulator? Since when would an inexpensive electronics simulator include traveling wave theory? Even if the program designer knew of this advanced effect / process?
Earl had given us circuits where the design was reliant on the switching of two cmos devices in parallel. I even posted a schematic from SM that showed this same type switching battle of timing with 3 stages of cmos into voice coil drivers facing each other headon into a coil. This model is partially current and high speed switching.
In other words... You hit a coil faster that it can conduct. Something that I believe Grumpy touched on many, many times using other examples and terms.
In any new process individuals go through the process of [wrapping their minds around it] to claim territory by applying their knowledge and experience. This leads to alot of rabbit holes or dark corners. Surely no one knows it all. So instead of trying to trick an older process to [perform] based on the [wrapping] why not cross the barrier of individuality and accept a tried and true step to advance this beast with what each and everyone knows through their experience?
This compwave process always shows specifically and repeatedly the anamolies you all are chasing in a myriad of long paths, dark alleys, and very excellent experiments.
I should add this also. This compwave pulsing scheme only works on very low inductance. Meaning 4 turns of wire is just great. I have tried this on inductive windings, like regular coils we are used to and the process does not happen. So I am striking a wire very fast and shutting off before conduction occurs. I believe this was stated by SM using jumper cables. This also looks like [Cancelling the flux].
The magnets utilized in TPUs need to be present, unlike what SM said that they learned how to start the device with a flick of the magnet. A "flick" of a magnet induces a quick voltage spike, but having the magnet present is different, I think of it as needing a magnet in order for a audio speaker to function, if you remove the magnet you no longer have a functioning loudspeaker.
So why would SM mislead us by the "flick" comment?
EM
Why think it is misleading?
Isn't it just as possible the flick of a magnet is needed to start the process and the others are needed to maintain it?
Could this be the single most important statement made by SM regarding the operation of the TPU and in relation to the collector.
The hotter it gets the more fuel it gives itself to burn.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.14, 15:00:46
Could this be the single most important statement made by SM regarding the operation of the TPU and in relation to the collector.
The hotter it gets the more fuel it gives itself to burn.
Is that a quote?
I still haven't located it.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.02.18, 16:41:04
Why think it is misleading?
Isn't it just as possible the flick of a magnet is needed to start the process and the others are needed to maintain it?
[the others] create a bias field which constitutes a static mode.
[The flick] rings the bell.
http://www.thewaterengine.com/pdf/stevenmarktpu.pdf
Page 2
QuoteOK let us compare this story of the common radio.
Think of the power unit as a device similar to a radio receiver.
No I do not want to hear feed back informing me that I am trying to convince the world my unit works on radio waves!!!.
But it behaves very much like a simple radio receiver except for the fact that radio waves need to be amplified before they can be of any use to us.
My units behave as though they are variable tuning devices, and we are tuning them to a frequency just like a radio.
The closer you get to the center frequency the more power you permit the collector to dissipate into a load.
the important difference here is that in the case of the radio, you tune into the frequency and amplify it for use.
In the case of my power unit, you create several frequencies within a space of the collector coil's circumference.
The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil.
You can begin to collect the current and dissipate it with no need for amplification because the signal source also becomes the feed for the power source and has the natural tendency to run with gain.
It is important that you note that you can never tune too closely to the exact frequencies of power conversion because the power received by the collector will instantly destroy it.
We instead must deliberately tune off the frequencies of conversion in order to make the thing properly work.
Remember that it is like a furnace which feeds itself.
The hotter it gets the more fuel it gives itself to burn.
That is why the control units are so very important.
Without the control unit constantly monitoring the frequencies of operation and making the necessary changes to keep the whole thing off exact conversion frequency, then the unit would very quickly destroy it's self.
QuoteThe destructive heating caused by the eddy currents become the problem we face when we make a really large powerful coil.
The reason i highlighted the heating element is that he got the original idea from the valve rectifier, he tells us that the heater phase of the rectifier valve against the phase of the HT transformer creates the kicks,the power in these kicks will increase in relation to the heater voltage of the rectifier valve, the heater electron stream is only the catalyst to allow the harmonics to be generated not the source of energy used to create them, he is in effect creating the environment to which the kick can be produced, once he understood exactly what the kick was then he must have found another way of creating them.
I will try to reproduce this experiment, anyone ever heard of a rectifier tube going into scream mode ^-^ does a tube that's screaming get hotter or to put it another way is there a possibility for a tube to suffer runaway.
Peterae,
If I remember correctly, screaming tubes were caused by plate potential starvation, metal bases or poor tube manufacturing processes.
There is a way to obtain amplification in a tube, even a diode tube, without applying cathode/plate current. This does require the use of an open heater filament used as the cathode (5U4-GB) or a directly heated cathode (5AR4). On first realization of this possibility, one would think, if this was true, that adding feedback could be a fire-feeds-furnace scenario. It hasn't worked that way for me :(
Hi all:
Been kind of lax lately but have been working a lot. I have run into a situation
that needs clarified. If a dc cap has a diode across it properly oriented so as to
feed the cap with the correct polarity, this would be considered as half-wave
rectification...right? One diode would only let half the wave through. I know this
is right but this is just to set it straight.
Then in the large TPU, the caps there would be with a diode and be performing
half wave rectification. That is if that is in fact a diode. Still up in the air there. Whats
the call?
thay
Quote from: thaelin on 2012.04.15, 23:41:47
Hi all:
Been kind of lax lately but have been working a lot. I have run into a situation
that needs clarified. If a dc cap has a diode across it properly oriented so as to
feed the cap with the correct polarity, this would be considered as half-wave
rectification...right? One diode would only let half the wave through. I know this
is right but this is just to set it straight.
Then in the large TPU, the caps there would be with a diode and be performing
half wave rectification. That is if that is in fact a diode. Still up in the air there. Whats
the call?
thay
As far as I'm concerned, it is a diode. There is a slight chance that it is an inductor but there is absolutely no way it is a resistor or molded cap.
"If a dc cap has a diode across it "?
The diode isn't across the cap but I get your idea. The component electrically 'across' the cap (in parallel with) is an Epcos voltage suppressor, or similar.
Yes, you would think one diode means half-wave rectification. It could also mean the diode is used as a detector. The color banding layout would reflect that the diode is of the type capable of radio 'type' detection.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.15, 13:19:35
The reason i highlighted the heating element is that he got the original idea from the valve rectifier, he tells us that the heater phase of the rectifier valve against the phase of the HT transformer creates the kicks,the power in these kicks will increase in relation to the heater voltage of the rectifier valve, the heater electron stream is only the catalyst to allow the harmonics to be generated not the source of energy used to create them, he is in effect creating the environment to which the kick can be produced, once he understood exactly what the kick was then he must have found another way of creating them.
I will try to reproduce this experiment, anyone ever heard of a rectifier tube going into scream mode ^-^ does a tube that's screaming get hotter or to put it another way is there a possibility for a tube to suffer runaway.
I thought SM said that in the initial turn-on of a valve, the current interacts with the earth's magnetic field and you get a kick. This is the same as saying that the initial turn-on of a circuit will interact with a static magnetic field. Simple enough for anyone to test. O0
Hi G
The 2 are related, the Valve power ON tug appears a mechanical tug i have seen this myself.
I think the whole idea of the valve rectifier is to allow us to find the frequencies needed to create them, he says that all sorts of hash and noise will be seen and occasionally they will meet and produce one large kick, we know he used expensive equipment to study this, from some of my previous experiments i have been able to hear and feel the mechanical tug which has been the result of what i believe to be mixing of certain harmonics creating a large tug.
I have tried to establish how to isolate whatever the circumstances are to create this tug/kick/em energy burst.
You see when i used 2 white noise generators i would occasionally produce one big kick they were not necessarily that frequent in some cases, but every now and then the conditions were right and it is these conditions that when we know what they are will enable us to produce the large kicks not only when we want but also as many and as frequent as we require.
He also went on to ponder the magnetic field from a nuclear explosion, this all points to the valve tug,combined small kicks meeting to produce one large kick, as being pulses of EM and my view is that EMP is radiant in nature, from EM rules on PCB ground planes, you have a copper plate that allows EM to dissipate across the ground planes surface and therefore the ground plane must attain a charge from the dispersion of the em in the smaller tracks, the fact the ground plane receives and disperses em noise due to capacitive coupling, sounds very similar to the metallic shields used by Tesla as he walked around the room to detect the blast of radiant energy, and the metallic shields acquired a charge.
We can all produce EM noise but there's more to creating the correct conditions to get a strong tug.
If EM noise is required to create a tug then why does the valve filament tug at power up, i believe the reason for this is at power up you have had to switch current on, it is the switch that momentarily causes the conditions for the tug, this can be proven by constantly switching the valve on and off, i bet every now and then the valve filament will tug even though the filament is still hot,same goes for Tesla's power lines again it's the switch on that causes the deaths, keep switching on and off fast, i bet more deaths would occur not just switch ON from cold.Think of the harmonics that are produced in an arc, as SM stated most engineers placed caps across the relevant points to stop the switching noise, i even understand Tesla introduced similar devices across the HV DC power lines to suppress the switching noise and stop the deaths and arcing over, which is quiet interesting because i also believe that with Tesla's power lines there was more power once the switching transients had dispersed down the length of the power lines than there was at the switch creation point.
I am guessing that the current down the entire length of wire is the same but the voltage climbs due to capacity of the sourounding air hence the blinding killer arcs which were obviously much higher in voltage than at the switch on point, in rush current would be the same down the entire length would it not? with asymmetric capacitors ION movement gets the blame for the small extra thrust produced so i will also blame ION dispersion results in increased power production C.C
Man. I don't know what to say.
When you switch the circuit "on", the current, or what we call current, flows outside the conductor. The electrons do not start to drift until they have aligned to the potential, which takes a few ns, and even then not all of them drift instantly.
So, is the energy transfered by the electrons or are the electrons pulled along by the energy?
If "by the energy", then what is the nature of this "energy"?
An asymetric capacitor creates a radial current and this is one of only two ways to make "the effect" evident, the other is a unidirectional HV pulse - per Vlaenderen, Tesla, and Steinmetz.
It is very spooky to use a dual switch pulser and reflect this energy back to an ungrounded power supply. The space around the supply changes and it becomes highly charged, but the supply works the same or appears to. When you touch it, you will get pin-prick shocks. If you are grounded, a strong wave of energy will flow across you to ground, and this may blow the regulating transistor in the supply. (It will short when this happens.) Very easy to verify this yourself.
The test SM suggests with the rectifier valve and out of phase heater must have been tried by some? Mannix must have tried this
It's the main thing to confirm the kick surely.
QuoteIf the plate voltage is not rectified then it is AC with a potential 60 Hz frequency.
That combines with the 5 volt 60 Hz in the coil of the htr transformer and generally amounts to nothing. In fact the power of the 5 volt transformer amounts to nothing.
It is an insignificant power supply except when the two transformers get slightly out of phase with each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another.
Then you can measure all kinds of things going on.
You can generate all kinds of hash and multiple frequencies, and I do mean all kinds.
I wonder if this simulates in spice
QuoteWhen you switch the circuit "on", the current, or what we call current, flows outside the conductor. The electrons do not start to drift until they have aligned to the potential, which takes a few ns, and even then not all of them drift instantly.
Before the drift starts the static potential would be very high. This shows up on the scope as a tall and very sharp spike.
Also instead of a perpendicular primary the primary could be wound as a parallel collar. The sharp spike would simulate a spark gap discharge albeit low power transfer but very fast kinetic power. The Secondary would be very high impedance to this kinetic impulse.
So I see all this happens before conduction reaches a static level after the conduction ramp up.
The coils [would act naturally] and we get a [new type of induction].
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.16, 21:50:12
The test SM suggests with the rectifier valve and out of phase heater must have been tried by some? Mannix must have tried this
It's the main thing to confirm the kick surely.
I wonder if this simulates in spice
It will if you program it to do so. I think the filament energy is only a small thing simply because we calculate it using the energy applied minus the energy radiated in heat. Particular folks would consider the charge (shooting pin-pong balls or electrons, make your choice) leaving the anode to balance out with the cathode as part of that heat loss. I don't think it is.
I've performed the tests. The 5u4 wasn't used to rectify. It was used as the subject. The upstream rectifiers mentioned performed the rectification.
Nothing interesting happens unless the filament supply transformer is separate from the plate supply transformer. If you use the plate and heater windings from the same transformer the worst you can have is 180 deg. out. That does nothing interesting.
Run the plate transformer off of mains and the filament transformer off of a controllable frequency source not synchronized with mains and don't use the tube as a rectifier..
That is my take on it and I'm still not sure what SM meant by 'kick'.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.04.16, 23:10:28
It will if you program it to do so. I think the filament energy is only a small thing simply because we calculate it using the energy applied minus the energy radiated in heat. Particular folks would consider the charge (shooting pin-pong balls or electrons, make your choice) leaving the anode to balance out with the cathode as part of that heat loss. I don't think it is.
I've performed the tests. The 5u4 wasn't used to rectify. It was used as the subject. The upstream rectifiers mentioned performed the rectification.
Nothing interesting happens unless the filament supply transformer is separate from the plate supply transformer. If you use the plate and heater windings from the same transformer the worst you can have is 180 deg. out. That does nothing interesting.
Run the plate transformer off of mains and the filament transformer off of a controllable frequency source not synchronized with mains and don't use the tube as a rectifier..
That is my take on it and I'm still not sure what SM meant by 'kick'.
He has been on about this for 6 years ...
Buy a geiger counter
this must be what it is like when sailors in the Philadelphia Experiment were stuck in the flow.
The initial change in energy is the aether redistributing. You can see kicks all day long with hv and a magnet. For an instant you are magnifying the permeability, scaling the magnetic field, making it stronger.
You don't need tubes to see it, just hv and dc bias. It ain't rocket science!
I'm glad to see this TPU discussion going. Ive been very sick and stressed out lately but I want to comment on the heat buildup, which stops the operation of the TPU by changing the dimensions of the coils due to thermal expansion, and so the TPU detunes. Remember it has a high Q, and it's tuned slightly off frequency ON THE LOW SIDE, because the detunning lowers the frequency and we don't want a thermal runaway device that will melt.
EM
WW interesting, i will indeed drive the heater transformer with a sine generator circuit which will be phase adjustable, but it will be phase locked to the mains that drives the plate transformer at first.
EM Sorry to hear about your health, Stress is very difficult to avoid these days, specially when the candles are burnt both ends on OU research and trying to maintain normall family life.
So did gridbias do the experiment with the valve rectifier?
Geiger Counter oh no not another box to buy :(
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.17, 09:25:12
WW interesting, i will indeed drive the heater transformer with a sine generator circuit which will be phase adjustable, but it will be phase locked to the mains that drives the plate transformer at first.
EM Sorry to hear about your health, Stress is very difficult to avoid these days, specially when the candles are burnt both ends on OU research and trying to maintain normall family life.
So did gridbias do the experiment with the valve rectifier?
Geiger Counter oh no not another box to buy :(
Or ..you could use a some kind of amplifier.
Quote from: gridbias on 2012.04.17, 12:01:05
Or ..you could use a some kind of amplifier.
Or....
He could just perform the experiment as close to the original description as possible.
I have a geiger counter. It said nothing during the experiment. Likewise, using the GM tube in place of the 5U4 showed nothing extraordinary, except that the GM tube still works O0
I would not think the valve type is critical or the ht transformer voltage, but i could be wrong.
and here we go again...
I think the valve type is important.
Note the cathode differences. I believe only 'A' or 'B' can show the intended results, whatever those are.
If anyone has a means to show a 'kick' that could be part of the TPU function, please do so.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.04.17, 13:59:53
If anyone has a means to show a 'kick' that could be part of the TPU function, please do so.
Do we all agree on what constitutes a "kick"?
Spherics said that the pulse created by the interaction of the bifilar coils when both are pulsed and one is delayed, is the "kick":
QuoteSteven Mark created his own delay elements using iron wire after several years of intermittent experimentation. The technique was to carefully wrap a bifilar air-coil using copper wire. The longer the length of copper the better but using identical lengths. The two coils were connected to the SAME pulse waveforms in parallel so that the magnetic field is additive NOT canceling. The delay element was added in series to only one of the coils that made up the bifilar coil. The delay coil was made from insulated iron wire wound into an air coil. An oscilloscope was connected to both COPPER coils. The setup would be pulsed with a DC offset square wave (i.e. 0 to 20V not -10 to 10V) at the resonant frequency of the bifilar coils. The tuning consisted of cutting the iron wire down in length until an unexpected pulse/signal appeared. This pulse is the kick. I will refer to these tuned bifilar coils as kick coils.
SM mentioned the kick occuring in a tube when it is first turned on:
QuoteIf you look in Morgan Jones book, Valve Amplifiers, 3rd edition, on page 262 he says,The inrush of current through the filament interacts with the earth's magnetic field to produce a small kick.
WW that's interesting i see what you are saying about the valve types.
I was hoping to use a low power and low heater current version, mainly to ease the design of the heater driver circuit.
Here's 2 pictures of the 2 different tubes that SM suggests
and here are the 2 choices i was going to try, I was trying to take the cheaper route
Do both tubes spike when first turned on? I have read that the 5U4 does.
I am pretty sure all valves do this, i can certainly remember seeing this on more than one occasion when working on valve TVs many years ago
I also believe that some bulbs can exhibit the same tug.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.17, 15:54:23
I am pretty sure all valves do this, i can certainly remember seeing this on more than one occasion when working on valve TVs many years ago
I also believe that some bulbs can exhibit the same tug.
Maybe that is why SM recommended tubes and spoke of the kick when they are first turned on.
Tesla also noticed a strange surging energy moving along wires when DC dynamos were first turned on.
The tug of the valve filament caused by inrush current is quiet slow, i mean you can see the tug pull and then let go, it's a phenomenon that seems to last ages in the world of hash/harmonics etc, but he does say that once in a while the hash creates a big kick, so the question to be answered is how can random hash sometimes create a big kick, I think SM gave us the valve rectifier information to lead us to this answer.
Peter
Do you have or can you hash together a HV Pulser?
Pulse a large air-core inductor and hold a magnet near it. The magnet will tug and move violently.
Do you have a HV supply (any DC type will do)?
Connect one of the terminals to a magnet and the magnetic field will appear to increase in magnitude. Francis Nipher discovered this and concluded that the permeability of the air (or space) around the magnet was increased when either terminal was connected to the magnet.
What is a magnet? a means to polarize and increase the permeability of space!
What is a dielectric, but a means to increase the permittivity of space!
QuoteDo you have a HV supply (any DC type will do)?
Connect one of the terminals to a magnet and the magnetic field will appear to increase in magnitude. Francis Nipher discovered this and concluded that the permeability of the air (or space) around the magnet was increased when either terminal was connected to the magnet.
I have the equipment at work to do this one, and thanks to Romero i can monitor the field strength using a hall sensor but it's a bit off topic for this thread
and i am just off home
Your first experiment i have done with 25V but using delayed pulses
The delayed pulses allow this to happen at low voltage, with a single pulse controller it is not possible to do the 2 above experiments without very high current, and in the first video even high current would not work because of the very thin wire would just burn out.
Ah dam i just remembered you cannot see videos, oh well
I can see vids at home now, but not at work.
I consider the two different experiments related, but making the region of increased permeability "move" can't be accomplished with static fields as they are homogenous. If I had a homoplar motor, I'd connect hv to the magnet to see if the output changes. Would be interesting if it increased.
So, what do you think of the pusles interacting with the magnet (first experiment)?
Provided the Lorentz force action seen when applying current to a wire (current to a tube heater) is crucial, the 5U4-GB would be more likely to have more action. The reason is that the heater filament is helical and isn't physically well supported. (I found that the GB version may come with thoriated tungsten oxides as a filament coating. This may be required or not. I don't know.)
The 5AR4 also has this problem but the heater is inside the cathode sleeve.
Provided the tube in-use has a poorly supported heater filament it should be similar. I would imagine using a tube with an isolated cathode would only require connecting the cathode to one side of the heater filament to make it more similar to the tubes above.
G,
I know what you're saying related to high voltage, applying electric charge to a magnet, etc. are true. I have confirmed such myself. I just haven't been able to fit the idea into a TPU theory.
The delay effects are also confirmed on my bench. I have the impression it is like shooting one bullet after another into ballistic gelatin. The first makes way for the second and the velocity of the second is so fast it destroys the first.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.04.17, 17:13:53
.... but making the region of increased permeability "move" can't be accomplished with static fields as they are homogenous
This thought will crash most ideas and I find it incorrect.
Static fields are just vector measurements of variations in one singular medium which is the stuff that makes up all fields of a type and perhaps all types. If this wasn't true a compass would not work. Adding a magnet to a ferrous cored coil has definite and undeniable effects upon the properties of the coil. Bringing a magnet near an air-cored coil while current is pulsed into that coil causes the conductors to move farther and with more force.
Using FEMM just increase the surrounding plotted space. You will see that any good FEMM program will link the so-called 'magnet's field' to any nearest magnetic field and continue to connect filed lines to the planet's poles and those to the Sun and beyond. A magnet just focuses flux no different than a lens focuses light. It isn't the source of whatever it is focusing. It is just the source of that mathematical construct we call a field.
If you use the compression effect between pulses of different velocities you create a third pulse of the same polarity as the colliding pulses but with much higher amplitude. Should this stronger resultant pulse be in a static magnetic field the motion and force of movement is multiplied magnitudes higher than either of the generated pulses.
It cannot be denied that a TPU was connected to the Earth's magnetic field. That doesn't mean it was powered by the planet's field.
How is my statement incorrect? To induce change, something has to change. You cannot induce a current from a static magnetic field. You ahev to move it or change it's magnitude.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.04.17, 17:48:19
How is my statement incorrect? To induce change, something has to change. You cannot induce a current from a static magnetic field. You ahev to move it or change it's magnitude.
Now, that is correct :)
The mistake folks make is they think a static magnetic field is frozen in space and not under the possible influence of anything else.
There aren't many differences between it and a bubble. It can be deformed in almost any fashion but not easily punctured.
SM's kicks must induce a current in a way that it gives us an advantage.
A current as we know takes a certain time to flow from switch on, what happens if the current can be made to flow much faster
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.17, 21:44:55
A current as we know takes a certain time to flow from switch on, what happens if the current can be made to flow much faster
What if we miss the forest for the trees?
I.E. What if the true current is not the drift of electrons, and the electrons are just along for the ride?
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.04.18, 02:16:16
I.E. What if the true current is not the drift of electrons, and the electrons are just along for the ride?
What do you propose is driving those electrons then?
Well, apparently there is an aether after all. Maybe aether drags them along.
http://proceedings.aip.org/resource/2/apcpcs/504/1/1004_1?isAuthorized=no
Quote
The Trouton and Noble experiment, which was initially performed (and fiascoed) in 1903, has only been questioned recently. When correctly performed, this very simple electrostatic ætherdrift experiment gives unambiguous positive results: a suspended, parallel-plate capacitor charged at high voltage by means of lateral feeding wires exhibits a stimulated torque and tends to line up its plates in the East-West direction. Other tests by means of vertical feeding wires exhibited continuous rotations. This new class of elementary EM phenomena is described in the present paper. As far as it relates to the state of motion of the vacuum, it is our understanding that: (i) it serves as the physical basis for another class of electrostatic phenomena involved in the generation of linear thrust and technically referred to as "Biefeld-Brown effect" drives; (ii) it might be of tremendous importance for implementing "future flight" propulsion systems; (iii) it might add a new dimension in space weather. The present paper aims at clarifying these concepts. We shall only present the exploratory side of a wider, proprietary research and development effort, so as to encourage the replication of Trouton-Noble's experiment by academia and other members of the scientific and engineering community. © 2000 American Institute of Physics.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=aether%20drift%20szames&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFAQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpsroc.phys.ntu.edu.tw%2Fcjp%2Fdownload.php%3Ftype%3Dfull%26vol%3D48%26num%3D4%26page%3D427&ei=Vz6OT9jtCOWKiAKQ7MXpAg&usg=AFQjCNFtc77Bj-7bt8AKYGUiJigXGJohJw&cad=rja
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=aether%20drift%20szames&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CFoQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjnaudin.free.fr%2Fhtml%2Ftroutnbl.htm&ei=Vz6OT9jtCOWKiAKQ7MXpAg&usg=AFQjCNHaqNuIgM3gdBZefVXA_UVmis4nmQ&cad=rja
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.04.18, 05:13:08
Well, apparently there is an aether after all. Maybe aether drags them along.
http://proceedings.aip.org/resource/2/apcpcs/504/1/1004_1?isAuthorized=no
...
I'm afraid when I read the name of the authors: "Patrick Cornille, Jean-Louis Naudin".
Although I consider Jean-Louis Naudin as an interesting experimenter, his site is full of errors and bad interpretations whose some of them are well known, even by him, and have never been corrected. Many experiments are also correct but conventional. It is funny to see that one of them dismissed the "Patrick Cornille's pendulum" related to BB effect and to thrust without reaction, proving that Patrick Cornille doesn't make serious studies before publishing his theories (it should be obvious for a skilled physicist that the measurement of a current in an electrotatic experiment is incompatible with the
electrostatic nature of the experiment! C.C). We can't trust such people. And it's a pity for me to say that, because JLN is the guy who has let me renew with physics after many years of interruption, thanks to his site and the lifter, so I have indeed regard for him!
Under high vacuum conditions, there is no thrust (see Nasa experiments. Their conclusion: "we find that their operation is fully explained by a very simple theory that uses only electrostatic forces and the transfer of momentum by multiple collisions."
Oh no not again. Asymmetric thrusters have indeed been proven to work in a hard vacuum.
Anyway it's common knowledge since a NASA employee spilt the beans on a cover up at NASA regarding this.
Then there's the experiment i did, a solid block of epoxy encasing an array of asymmetric capacitors does indeed produce measurable thrust, and also as we know TT also showed a block of plates would move.
If a solid block can move on earth why would it not move in a vacuum, we are now not talking about the dielectric being hard or soft in this case.
Even Brown tested in a vacuum.
Most of Browns work is still classified so why would NASA be allowed to reveal the truth that would be against national interest and break the classification.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.18, 12:03:06
Oh no not again. Asymmetric thrusters have indeed been proven to work in a hard vacuum.
...
References?
It's a classified effect, use a bit of logic
Work done by TT Brown you will see many vacuum chambers and very expensive equipment, now why would you spend a large fortune building all this equipment if it did not work in a vaccum. Seeing all this vacuum equipment of TT's should ring alarm bells.
Theres a NASA video showing it works in a vacuum as well OOPS
Then theres a guy who started a company to prove it works in a vacuum, he did the test and got movement, yet all the scientists and NASA will not go near him/speak to him or are even bothered about his results.
Cannot remember his name but there are videos around made by his company which show it working.
INTRODUCTION TO PROJET MONTGOLFIER REPORTS
QuoteThe Final Report for the Projet Mongolfier, April 15, 1959, outlined these five tests confirming, as in the prior tests, that there was a definable force. At this point our team was scattered, the project shut down and we were unable to make the further tests to further refine and quantify the results.
http://projetmontgolfier.info/INTRODUCTION.html
http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0211/0211001.pdf page 28
QuoteThese experiments were explained by scientific community as due entirely to "ion-momentum
transfer", or "electric wind". It was predicted categorically by many "would-be" authorities that
such an apparatus would not operate in vaccum. The Navy rejected the research proposal (for
further research) for this reason. The experiments performed in Paris several years later,
proved that ion wind was not entirely responsible for the observed motion and proved quite
conclusively that the apparatus would indeed operate in high vacuum.
page 27
QuoteIn the Paris test miniature saucer type airfoils were operated in a vaccum exceeding 10-6mm
Hg.Bursts of thrust (towards the positive) were observed every time there was a vaccum spark
within the large bell jar.- These vacuum sparks represented momentary ionization, principally of
the metal ions in the electrode material. The DC potential used ranged from 70kV to 220kV.
Again if it works in epoxy why would it not work in epoxy inside a satelite.
There is one very important paper i was looking for from many years ago i think from Parnell university which had it working in tests a long time before Nasa said it does not, unfortunately this seems to have been wiped from the net, maybe someone has a copy.
Let's skip arguments and say that there is an aether.
Ok, we attribute the properties of "vacuum" to "aether":
intrinsic impedance (Z0) = 377 ohm
permittivity (ε0) ≈ 8.854187817620... × 10−12 farads per metre (F·m−1).
permeability (μ0) = 4π×10−7 V·s/(A·m) ≈ 1.2566370614...×10−6 H·m−1
Let's hypothesise that these properties are variable.
Does this help us generate electricity?
Ampère's Force Law states that the force per unit length is given by:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/math/e/6/2/e62cd8fa5fe70dcacf92d1c95a5ccb4c.png)
Ampere's Force is proportional to permeability.
Wow i never realized the impedance of free space was that low, an area of space that has nothing in it has a low impedance :o
Has anyone tried to confirm this by measurement?
EDIT
You need a sink and source for energy to flow, in free space we only have the source.
In lightening energy in the clouds arcs to earth, but what is earth connected to that allows the circuit to be closed for lightening to work, earth must have a different potential than where the lightening came from, so if we use a small metallic ball to represent earth and fire hv at it, lightening wont happen once the ball is charged to the same potential because the ball is floating, so why is the earth not floating, there has to be something that closes the potential, but what ever it is it cannot conduct electricity otherwise that would arc instead.
If earth is one half of a capacitor the atmosphere is the dielectric then why does the charge in the sky not increase the charge the earth has, if it did then earth would have an ever increasing higher potential.
So the secret is to find the sink and how to establish it in the same way earth does.
The answer maybe this low ohmic impedance, AC flows but DC arcs
remember what SM said about more than one current in a wire, well maybe it's possible for one current to be a source and a totally separate current to be a sink one Dc one AC, only when the conditions are right can they annihilate each other, even Tesla mentioned you need to find the potential or sink(Something like that you get my point hopefully)
QuoteYou're right that with the Earth's large size, you might expect a slight
over or under abundance of electrons. However, even a small net charge
would quickly draw an opposite charge from the regions around us (there are
plenty of charged particles in the solar wind, for example). So the Earth
is, for all intents and purposes, charge neutral. If there is a net
charge, I doubt if it would be measurable given the Earth's large size and
the tiniess of the charge. In addition, we are constantly being bombarded
with particles of various types, many of which carry charges, so the exact
number, being small, is likely to fluctuate.
By the way, this arguement for charge neutrality holds for pretty much any
large object in the universe, from comets to galaxies.
How can the earth not have a net charge and yet it can still be a sink for lightening.
When the lightening strikes it still cannot charge the earth even thought there's a potential difference between the 2 so how does charge from a strike get used up by the earth, whats the return path to give a neutral net charge after many thousands of strikes.
Put it another way why is the earth a sink, solve this problem and there should be no problem capturing the Aetheral energy.
That's only one form. Any charged conductor will balance when connected to ground and it is not always positive to negative. Charged dielectric however tends to hold the charge. This was a big problem years ago when I worked with sensitive things that didn't like static. (safe-arm devices, detonators, initiators, etc.) The charges on the dielectric have trouble getting to the conductor to discharge, so the best solution to static is conductive materials or high humidity.
We want to keep the current moving, so we have to keep influencing it to move to ground (Kapanadze, Tesla) or we move it repetitively (TPU, AVEC, etc.).
A very basic analogy is a ball. Kapanadze throws the ball (green box device). SM spins the ball round and round. Both move the ball in different ways. O0
The videos are useless if the vacuum conditions are not given. From what I have read elsewhere, when a high vacuum is done, the air molecules are still ionised but their kinetic energy is much higher because there is much less collisions with other molecules than at atmospheric pressure or in a not too high vacuum.
This means that a ion wind due to a lesser density of molecules is (partly) compensated by a much stronger kinetic energy of each molecule, and even in a very high vacuum, the ion wind remains the likely cause of motion. I remember that I have seen a test from Nasa or from a military lab where the rotation stopped completely in a very pure vacuum (µPa?), but I don't retrieve the paper.
OK let's say this does not work in a vacuum, can you explain to me how the encapsulated devices work, i have run experiment myself on this and i could never work out how they thrusted as there was no moving air external to the device, although i must say the thrust was very small it was indeed there at all times the device was powered, no matter which orientation or how close/far it was from sourrounding objects.
When I see TT Browns work I am reminded of this figure 4 on page 170 in Maxwell's paper: On Physical Lines of Force (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/On_Physical_Lines_of_Force.pdf) (note that the paper starts on page 161)
Maxwell's work did not depend on ions and ultimately led physicists the world over to conclude that EM radiation would propagate freely through a vacuum thus dispensing with the notion that a medium was necessary. And of course the Michelson Morely Experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson%E2%80%93Morley_experiment) was intended to end the debate.
However, Nikola Tesla raised a very interesting hypothesis by stating that the Aether would be and is dragged along with the Earth as it rotates. In this case the Michelson Morely experiment would fail even when an Aether was present. It is very interesting that recent tests such as Gravity Probe-B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Probe_B) and The Earth Drags Space and Time - NASA (http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/earth_drag.html) show that Space-Time is dragged along with the Earth similar to what Tesla indicated.
I have come to believe that what the scientific community now refers to as Space-Time is the same stuff that Tesla called the Aether.
If so, then the force we see in a narrowing field, whether Electrical or Magnetic, should exist anywhere Space-Time exists regardless of vacuum or high pressure gasses.
As regards the Earths charge see How Does The Earth Benefit From Lightening (http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/faq/faq_ltg.php) six questions down.
As regards Steven Mark's TPU - one thing I find interesting is the gyroscopic effect that it exhibited. While Einstein's Mass Energy equivalence is broadly accepted I have always had a reservation regarding the interplay between gravity and energy. I have always viewed massless energy to be unaffected by gravity because it coexists with Space-Time in a non-displacement manner. Since inertia and thereby gyroscopic effects are a form of artificial gravity I am inclined to believe that Mark's TPU is moving mass, aka electrons or some other particle around the loop. Unless of course the effect is only something else that mimics gyroscopic activity. :P
In looking at his setup, especially the exposed videos where the wiring can be seen, I am inclined to think that he has a round robin configuration where the final stage is re-entry in phase with the first stage. So all that is needed is a small battery or magnetic pulse to get the system into resonance. If that resonance is sympathetic to any of a multitude of power sources, man made or natural, then the oscillation would continue and any excess energy could be extracted. It would be nice to see if the external source could be identified. Whatever it is, it must be operating at some harmonic of Steven's frequency of operation. I've read about the imploding TV sets etc. and having a deep background in that technology I cannot discount his claims. I can't help but wonder if there was a Piezo effect in play as many of the older tubes had a high concentration of Quartz in their makeup. Nevertheless Steven eventually moved to Solid State AFAIK so that wouldn't explain his source.
Look for commonality between Moray, Tesla, Marks & Schwartz. That commonality will no doubt point to the source. Each device is different, but each device has something in common with all the others.
8)
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.19, 16:01:52
OK let's say this does not work in a vacuum, can you explain to me how the encapsulated devices work, i have run experiment myself on this and i could never work out how they thrusted as there was no moving air external to the device, although i must say the thrust was very small it was indeed there at all times the device was powered, no matter which orientation or how close/far it was from sourrounding objects.
In matter of assymetric capacitor, there is
not one experiment that works with a null current. There is always leakages and current flows. Even only 100µA at 30 KV means 3 W, which is a well enough power to move a device.
For me the problem is less a question of pressure than a question of current. If you could run your experiment in air but without current, it would be conclusive.
Of course the current diminishes with the pressure but never enough to show a motion with zero current, which is the only condition to speak of "electrostatic". So until proof of the contrary, i.e. a demonstration of motion without current (or at least with a voltage x current product much less than the mechanical energy to fight), Okkham's razor says that the ion wind is by far the more likely cause of motion.
Quote from: Harvey on 2012.04.20, 04:53:57
...
It is very interesting that recent tests such as Gravity Probe-B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Probe_B) and The Earth Drags Space and Time - NASA (http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/earth_drag.html) show that Space-Time is dragged along with the Earth similar to what Tesla indicated.
...
Gravity probe B experiment confirmed only predictions of general relativity. Contrarily to GR, there is no possibility to verify "what Tesla indicated", for the reason he didn't provide a theory with quantifiable predictions.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.04.18, 15:15:33
Let's skip arguments and say that there is an aether.
Ok, we attribute the properties of "vacuum" to "aether":
intrinsic impedance (Z0) = 377 ohm
permittivity (ε0) ≈ 8.854187817620... × 10−12 farads per metre (F·m−1).
permeability (μ0) = 4π×10−7 V·s/(A·m) ≈ 1.2566370614...×10−6 H·m−1
Let's hypothesise that these properties are variable.
Does this help us generate electricity?
Surely. For example take a plane capacitor. Its capacity is C=ε
0*S/d. Charge it at U=Q/C=Q/ε
0*d/S. Decrease ε
0: you increase U, you get extra energy.
The remaining question is: how? :(
OK i have it C.C all we need to do is get an electric field to interact with the aehter, this will change the permittivity of free space.
spheric already told us how to do that, it's all in the timing of 2 sharp phase delayed pulses, this would result in a higher charged area of space, which would explain the nature of the TPU's output which appears as a Capacitive discharge with hash, the hash being required to cause the change in permittivity.
This could also explain the sharp tall pulse i get by phase delaying, and also explain why my fets die when i hit the critical phase delay, the increased charge being received increases the voltage across the FET and causes Avalanche and re triggering and final destruction.
I also know that at the same time this happens there is also an accompanied magnetic pulse, how can changing the permittivity create a magnetic pulse?
this would also mean a nuclear explosion would also change the permittivity of free space.
More importantly we now know why my condenser mike was picking ghostly sounds when ever i ran the pulse experiments O0
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.04.20, 11:13:17
Surely. For example take a plane capacitor. Its capacity is C=ε0*S/d. Charge it at U=Q/C=Q/ε0*d/S. Decrease ε0: you increase U, you get extra energy.
The remaining question is: how? :(
Yes, how do you decrease the permittivity of space or any other dielectric?
Can't we increase permeability as another option?
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.20, 11:46:41
OK i have it C.C all we need to do is get an electric field to interact with the aehter, this will change the permittivity of free space.
spheric already told us how to do that, it's all in the timing of 2 sharp phase delayed pulses, this would result in a higher charged area of space, which would explain the nature of the TPU's output which appears as a Capacitive discharge with hash, the hash being required to cause the change in permittivity.
This could also explain the sharp tall pulse i get by phase delaying, and also explain why my fets die when i hit the critical phase delay, the increased charge being received increases the voltage across the FET and causes Avalanche and re triggering and final destruction.
I also know that at the same time this happens there is also an accompanied magnetic pulse, how can changing the permittivity create a magnetic pulse?
this would also mean a nuclear explosion would also change the permittivity of free space.
More importantly we now know why my condenser mike was picking ghostly sounds when ever i ran the pulse experiments O0
Spherics said that the electric pulse had to interact with a magnetic field to expose the aether and gave some specific guidelines.
Good time to refresh on the definitions of permittivity and permeability.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.04.20, 10:11:42
In matter of assymetric capacitor, there is not one experiment that works with a null current. There is always leakages and current flows. Even only 100µA at 30 KV means 3 W, which is a well enough power to move a device.
For me the problem is less a question of pressure than a question of current. If you could run your experiment in air but without current, it would be conclusive.
Of course the current diminishes with the pressure but never enough to show a motion with zero current, which is the only condition to speak of "electrostatic". So until proof of the contrary, i.e. a demonstration of motion without current (or at least with a voltage x current product much less than the mechanical energy to fight), Okkham's razor says that the ion wind is by far the more likely cause of motion.
I think we can prove the aether through logic. First, I would argue that vacuum is an insulator. Yes, it's not even a dielectric. So in theory, if you have a capacitor with vacuum as a separator, it wouldn't work. Second, current cannot flow through a vacuum. The reason being vacuum doesn't have free electron to conduct current. So in theory, current can't flow through a vacuum tube. I think vacuum is a dielectric and capable of break down to conduct current. But then, it wouldn't be vacuum anymore by definition. lol One thing I always wonder is how in the world does vacuum has permeability and all other stuff. Vacuum means nothingness, how nothingness has properties. lol
Currently the 2 models I am working on are:
The TPU as an arced or semicircular Tesla coil (the snake bites its tail). The gap between the starting point and the ending point is similar to the Kunel patent to be exercised accordingly. This motion mimics the self destructive resonant transformer but with the added safety of the gap that acts as a shock absorbtion or suppression device. The activity at this point can be read or siphoned.
The TTBrown model can be reproduce very easily by making a domed shape capacitor of 2 aluminum plates with a Tesla coil under this with the discharge going in to the center to the bottom plate. What is needed is HV and sharp pulsing with a shape reflective echo impacting back to the aether. The aether becomes noticable when the very high speed and potential are shot to a reflective scattering which creates more surface of impact instead of just a stream breaking through the space looking for a sink.
The spark gap for both of these experiments is the low inductance primary driven by the comp wave / dual pulse protocol that Spherics mentioned.
This mimics the spark gap normally on the primary. TTBrown used HV transformers.
We need to devise an experiment to prove permittivity changes, as you know i am setting up to do the valve rectifier experiment, if i can get the occurrence of hash by altering the phase, SM measured all kinds of things, maybe one of them was altering permittivity, so how do we detect altering permittivity in the presence of hash/em noise, maybe using a polyprop cap with the outer foil grounded or the cap placed in a screened can connected to a screened BNC lead to scope.
Would a varying permittivity penetrate a Faraday shield? I guess it should.
I found certain hashed based tests would penetrate the shield. Certain spikes get through.
There are 2 kinds of hash I saw. One was erratic noise (variable spikes) and the other was non erratic, high frequency, full scope waveforms.
Now since SM couldnt show oscope shots we can only surmise that the hash could be a technical explanation or a moniker for some thing he is not allowed to mention.
Look at what a spark gap on the primary puts out compared to the ringing on the secondary of a Tesla coil.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.20, 16:35:14
We need to devise an experiment to prove permittivity changes, as you know i am setting up to do the valve rectifier experiment, if i can get the occurrence of hash by altering the phase, SM measured all kinds of things, maybe one of them was altering permittivity, so how do we detect altering permittivity in the presence of hash/em noise, maybe using a polyprop cap with the outer foil grounded or the cap placed in a screened can connected to a screened BNC lead to scope.
Would a varying permittivity penetrate a Faraday shield? I guess it should.
An air cap in an oscillator circuit will change frequency if the properties of the dielectric change.
If the magnetic field was changed by the HV, didn't the permeability change?
A quick and simple test 4 the 5ar4 or 5v4
light up the filament. I used dc but ac is the same
measure the resistance between each plate and each filament (cathode)wire .. in both polarities.
Perhaps somebody here could make some sense of the reading.
Quote from: gridbias on 2012.04.21, 02:38:52
A quick and simple test 4 the 5ar4 or 5v4
light up the filament. I used dc but ac is the same
measure the resistance between each plate and each filament (cathode)wire .. in both polarities.
Perhaps somebody here could make some sense of the reading.
GB,
You do know the 5AR4 base diagram has never been exactly correct?
Pin 1 can be considered the center-tap of the dual filament and the actual direct connection to the cathode.
The 5U4 doesn't have a filament center-tap.
Other than that, the resistance measurements you suggest are voltage measurements. A potential should be read between cathode and plate when the only power applied is to the filament.
'5v4' is a typo?
GB,
i just took a moment to obtain actual numbers for you.
With rated voltage and current applied to pins 2&8 and positive on 8....
Pin 6 is negative wrt pin 8 and measures 1.70V between 6&8.
Pin 4 is negative wrt pin 8 and it measures 3.96V between 4&8. 3.96 was a cold filament. After measuring other points this value is 4.96V (filament drive is 5.02V @ 3.05A)
Any voltage or resistance between pin 2 & pin 4 is outside the range of the meter I used.
Is this what you are questioning?
This may seem like an anomaly to many but is confirmation of comments from SM and quite normal.
Edit>>
Yep, the 5R4 is almost exactly the same except the lower voltage is 2.4V
So, what is the deal?
Wave, Agreed
but
Just resistance ..fluke dmm, nothing on the plate and completely isolated filament (battery if you like )
Don't change the scenario to volts just yet ..but you will find a negative value in one position only . Enough to raise a few questions on what is happening in the bottle.
You ever tried to measure ohms across a live battery?
You'll get nothing but flaky readings on one plate and infinity on the other.
Have you tried loading that plate potential, yet? ;)
I think it is only questionable if you don't know how tube rectifiers with directly heated cathodes work. That potential is the kick that starts conduction in the right direction during rectification.
We are only interested in the secondary emission from the tube .
I think of it in terms of particle flow from the cathode to the plate ....you know "the other way round" "for this example of my thoughts"
read the golden words again ..it is all there ..just not in context .
I would expect diversion posts on this
Quote from: gridbias on 2012.04.21, 04:35:06
We are only interested in the secondary emission from the tube .
I think of it in terms of particle flow from the cathode to the plate ....you know "the other way round" "for this example of my thoughts"
read the golden words again ..it is all there ..just not in context .
I would expect diversion posts on this
No doubt. It has happened every time I mention a similar effect.
'The other way round' O0 Maybe even to the point where the diode can be the heart of an NRO ;)
Maybe I should look at it all from the perspective of a digital person. Plenty should stand out then to peak my interests :D
gridbias a couple of questions.
Can i use a ez80 valve for my rectifier tube and a lower HT tansformer maybe 270-0-270.
I'm in the UK and it's very expensive to find a 500-0-500 i can get 5U4 or 5AR4 but these are about £18 each, i can get these if you feel it's critical for the test, the reason i ask about the ez80 rectifier is because i can buy the Transformer already wired with base for ez80
valve for a cheap price.
A 500-0-500 transformer are expensive when they come up they can go between £50 and £100 and i have not seen many around, if anyone in the uk knows of a reasonable priced source then please let me know.
Maybe i can go for a lower volts transformer but using the correct valve 5U4 or 5AR4.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.21, 09:22:18
gridbias a couple of questions.
Can i use a ez80 valve for my rectifier tube and a lower HT tansformer maybe 270-0-270.
I'm in the UK and it's very expensive to find a 500-0-500 i can get 5U4 or 5AR4 but these are about £18 each, i can get these if you feel it's critical for the test, the reason i ask about the ez80 rectifier is because i can buy the Transformer already wired with base for ez80
valve for a cheap price.
A 500-0-500 transformer are expensive when they come up they can go between £50 and £100 and i have not seen many around, if anyone in the uk knows of a reasonable priced source then please let me know.
Maybe i can go for a lower volts transformer but using the correct valve 5U4 or 5AR4.
read up on "secondary emmision" its from 1-30 kv and you wont be using much current.
OK i get the message, if I'm going to do it, do it right O0
5U4G is on it's way.
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.04.20, 14:33:25
I think we can prove the aether through logic. First, I would argue that vacuum is an insulator. Yes, it's not even a dielectric. So in theory, if you have a capacitor with vacuum as a separator, it wouldn't work. Second, current cannot flow through a vacuum. The reason being vacuum doesn't have free electron to conduct current. So in theory, current can't flow through a vacuum tube. I think vacuum is a dielectric and capable of break down to conduct current. But then, it wouldn't be vacuum anymore by definition. lol One thing I always wonder is how in the world does vacuum has permeability and all other stuff. Vacuum means nothingness, how nothingness has properties. lol
We could call "aether" the quantum vacuum, which is not empty but full of virtual particles. Among them, there are creation of positron-electron pairs out of the vacuum. This could be the cause of the vacuum permittivity (which supports your argument of capacitor working with vacuum between plates) and of all properties allowing for the propagation of displacement currents and of electromagnetic waves.
This thread is once again a writhing sea:
"Virtual particles"
"secondary emission"
"diversion posts"
use of tubes (to see what?)
I suggest someone with tubes use their turn-on spike as a pulse generator into SM's bifilar wires, one delayed as per spherics' instructions, with dc bias or the ol' speaker magnet, of course. Should be very loud every time you turn it on.
Like I tried to convey, the potential derived from thermionic emission is well known in tube-land and should be well known in solid-state-land but quick to be denied by those only trained in the digital world.
This is easily seen with any thermionic valve having only a filament for the cathode or the cathode sheath a physical part and connected to the filament. No special tubes are required.
The effect is even well pronounced in the well known 1AX2.
The 500-0-500 transformer was readily available in the TPU days. This is probably the only reason those specifications were mentioned.
Pulsing a cold filament on the 5U4GB with easily obtainable rise times yields nothing of interest. Biasing the filament so it is producing thermionic emission and then pulsing it yields very short bursts of cathode-anode decreases (reverse polarity swings) on the previously unproductive anode magnitudes stronger than the thermionic emission potential generated on the previously productive anode. So, this reverse anode-cathode pulse is not directly due to thermionic emission. Perhaps, the thermionic emission is the catalyst and this reverse pulse is the secondary emission.
The most interesting part, for me, is the fact that the anode indicating highest potential is the one physically associated with the heater wire connected to the negative polarity of the power supply and referenced from the positive terminal of the power supply, while there is no thermionic emission potential built-up on either when referencing from the negative terminal of the power supply.
Now, if you can make something useful from those actions, please share.
My best guess is the dual-rectifier/transformer/filament story was only a starting point to seeing something useful. I very seriously doubt the circuit activities are core to the operation of a TPU.
Right now, I believe the story is just an example of proving that things exist when everyone else denies there existence. Hopefully, there is more to it.
When I used the term 'nothing of interest' I'm talking about my interest. The speaker thumping at power-on is one example of this potential build-up without the standard thermionic emission. It happens before the heater becomes hot. Yet, current flows when the rectifier shouldn't be conducting - and it flows the opposite direction of normal operation. Of course, this action is denied to exist because today's engineers would not know a hot 5U4-GB even if it was shoved up their back-side.
The way i read it, is that when i alter the phase of the filament we should be seeing hash, and once in a while we should see a big kick when the hash occasionally combines, not sure about you guys but just for clarification at what we are looking for this experiment should be interesting because if i see hash, and also see it combine to produce a large kick then we will all be able to see what a kick looks like in real life and have confirmation that this really is the kick and we will then know for sure what we have been looking for, we can all then say wow i have had that using semiconductors :) we should then in the future be able to know exactly when a kick occurs.
Why are transformers so dam expensive these days, i know copper wire has soared in price but Christ, i am tempted to buy a pile of lamination iron and a winder and start up selling on eBay making Valve transformers, kick the day job.
No one seems to make anything in the UK anymore.
I was told a story the other day, in the 50's there was a sawmill about 20 miles from where i live, it was a century old business and run in a very traditional Victorian way, they would buy up estates strip the trees, sell the wood and then move onto the next estate, in the late 50's they started importing the timber because it was cheap, then the importers realized they could setup the saw mills and export the wood to the UK, this wiped most saw mills out as the imported wood was cheap, then once all the saw mills were wiped, they could put the prices up and start making furniture and export that to the UK which in turn wiped all the furniture manufacturers out, then the prices of quality furniture went up, we seem to be seeing this with everything now in the UK.
wind a transformer wow that's old school.
Didn't Mao Tse-Tung say something like - defeating capitalists from within without firing a shot?
I build my own Mag-Amps and have wound a few odd-ball transformers for home projects. Never use used wire!
According to my understanding the thermionic emission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_emission) will occur regardless of how the material is heated - AC - DC - Solar or any means you choose provided the material has reached an emissive state - which usually coincides with exceeding the Draper Point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draper_point).
The problem with nonelectrical emission is that it leaves the filament charged and theoretically would result in a condition where the charged filament would be devoid of any new carriers and current would cease to flow. But when supplied with new carriers via an electrical connection the filament can allow current flow across a vacuum for many years. Such is exactly the case in CRT type Televisions and monitors where the screen is the HV Anode and the filaments are called the Electron Guns (where generally there are three - one each for Red, Green and Blue in color sets and only one in single trace sets like our analog oscilloscopes or black and white TVs and monitors).
Grids exist in the vacuum path near the Guns to affect the flow rate. By altering the voltage on the grid we alter the intensity of the electron beam that passes through the grid and on to the Anode. The more intense the beam, the brighter the dot produced by the phosphor coating on the screen.
Is it possible to encourage electrons to emerge from a vacuum to keep the filament full of new carriers? I think it is. But my hypothesis would need to be proven and following is a description of the apparatus setup to accomplish that goal. It is based on the theory that metals only have a finite quantity of free electrons and once they are siphoned off no new carriers can be produced within the material.
Construct a small generator with a magnetic coupling on the shaft to drive the generator. The generator must supply enough energy to power the filament under test. Encase the generator in an ampule with a vacuum so no external charges can interfere with its operation directly (hence the magnetic coupling). Attach the generator to the filament (Gun) of a CRT and seal the connections so no external charges may be introduced to the connections. Apply the necessary HV to the anode of the CRT.
Now drive the generator with an external mover that is coupled magnetically. The system is a closed system electronically. The generator cannot provide any more electrons than are available in the metal materials. Therefore, as the electrons are siphoned off to the anode one of two conditions will emerge in the test. Either the thermionic filament will become positively charged and no new electrons will be found so that current stops flowing, or nature will balance the deficit by extracting new electrons from the vacuum via the magnetic field within the generator and the CRT will continue to function.
The Kick:
When an electrical current flows - regardless of the medium, vacuum or otherwise - a magnetic field exists around that current. Each carrier has it's own field, but if there is a sufficient line of carriers in close proximity, the fields will merge into a single field. Such is the case within tubes. Just as a straight wire has inductance (http://www.consultrsr.com/resources/eis/induct5.htm) so the path of the vacuum also will exhibit some value of inductance. When a sizable current is flowing in the vacuum and it is abruptly stopped, the collapsing magnetic field will 'Kick' to keep it going and not necessarily at the same consistent flow rate. Instead it could come crashing in as a major surge of current at the end of the cycle - depending of course on the amount of electrons available and the energy density of the field.
If charges can be extracted from the vacuum by deep, sharp magnetic spikes, then perhaps the 'Kick' is doing just that - maybe.
8)
QuoteIf charges can be extracted from the vacuum by deep, sharp magnetic spikes, then perhaps the 'Kick' is doing just that - maybe.
I agree.
Quote from: Harvey on 2012.04.21, 22:39:57
The problem with nonelectrical emission is that it leaves the filament charged and theoretically would result in a condition where the charged filament would be devoid of any new carriers and current would cease to flow.
In theory, perhaps.
In reality, you can build a gas (open flame for the tube heater) powered triode - not apply anode-cathode current and you should still register a cathode-anode potential.
I wonder what goes on here?
http://ebookbrowse.com/otto-ronette-tpu-ecd-v1-0-1116660126-pdf-d224017554
Copywrite violation?
Prairie dog shoot...
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/game/default.htm (http://www.cci-ammunition.com/game/default.htm)
http://www.hampsterdance.com/classics/originaldance.htm (http://www.hampsterdance.com/classics/originaldance.htm)
And so it starts...
I'm looking over the patent again.
I am very surprised. This is the first civilian documented evidence I've seen that someone understands induction using a single layer planar coil. O0
Ah! They have done their homework on the acoustic principles related to conduction.... combining acoustic principles with electrical activity to produce electricity using acoustic & EM principles.
I think the best are the facts they've learned that superposition can provide results magnitudes greater than the sum and using such methods allows the collection of energies of all frequencies generated.
They've included lanthenide in the core :o
The more I read the more I'm impressed but I don't see any evidence they have free energy.
I wonder....
If a valid request for review to the examiner is filed due to lack of proper references to concepts and methods already existing on prior valid patents, and those prior valid patents are sealed for perpetual renewal under Title 35, U.S.C. 181 -- what would happen to this patent?
???
QuoteThe more I read the more I'm impressed but I don't see any evidence they have free energy.
Maybe that is how this one got published.
Thought I have is Chava put this out there with no claims in hopes that this would be a catalyst or key item for the free energy pursuers to use.
Interesting snippet...
Sounds like OU.
Has Keely written all over it.
Yes.
After reading it again I could almost swear that I caught a whiff of a TPU running longer than it should :o
Physical vibration of current carrying conductors, especially oscillatory ones of similar frequency, opens up the possibility of extracting energy from the earths electromagnetic gravitational field, which is what it is in the first place. Frequencies we set up, as were moving through space with the earth, affect its field, and vibrating through this field, potential differences manifest themselves in surplus energy in our movin frame of reference, but their source is primordial. The guardians of this energy source employ all the latest detection methods and have a distributed network that can pinpoint the location of any active TPU with an accuracy less than 10 meters. It is no trifle thing to mess with the globe!
EM
In astronomy calculations, gravity has to be assumed to act instantly, or else energy increases due to the time delay. These concepts are quite exciting to ponder and here's some great reading. http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/speed_of_gravity.asp
At the heart of this dilemma is conservation of energy, but this "conservation" has an underlying assumption, and that is, the assumption that all the energy can be accounted for else how are we to say all energy is conserved if we can't account for all of it in the first place?.
The assumption that we can account for all the energy underlines the foolishness of the self deluded human mind. when we confidently recite this "law" we imply that we know "all" the ways that energy can manifest itself in this universe, so we claim the status of GOD! How foolish and deluded man has become!
Let me leave you with this thought to ponder!
The use of electromagnetic time delay and instantaneous acceleration of the ring in a TPU, is simply the energy generating principle of the stars, of the universe!
A divine gift for mankind? or a curse that will bring about its demise?
EM
Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.04.23, 21:04:50
Interesting snippet...
Sounds like OU.
Has Keely written all over it.
It is a general principle applying to all the kinds of fields, including static fields, when they interfere. In the area where two identical fields add constructively, the energy quadruples because it is proportional to the field amplitude squared. We only double the field but quadruple the energy. This is well known with radio waves but it is valid for all the fields, including sound waves which are propagating pressure fields.
This has surprised many people and some have imagined that this would be a way to produce free energy. Of course not. It sounds like OU but it's not OU. When fields interfere, there are as many areas where fields add constructively as destructively. In some places the energy quadruples, in some others, it nullifies. When you integrate the energy all over the space, energy is conserved (the calculus is easy to do when the field sources are isotropic).
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.04.24, 09:18:24
It is a general principle applying to all the kinds of fields, including static fields, when they interfere.
I'm only recording this statement for reference O0
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.24, 07:30:30
Physical vibration of current carrying conductors, especially oscillatory ones of similar frequency, opens up the possibility of extracting energy from the earths electromagnetic gravitational field, which is what it is in the first place. Frequencies we set up, as were moving through space with the earth, affect its field, and vibrating through this field, potential differences manifest themselves in surplus energy in our movin frame of reference, but their source is primordial. The guardians of this energy source employ all the latest detection methods and have a distributed network that can pinpoint the location of any active TPU with an accuracy less than 10 meters. It is no trifle thing to mess with the globe!
EM
Be aware, this topic isn't in your bench, so you can't delete the posts here! C.C
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.04.24, 09:18:24
It is a general principle applying to all the kinds of fields, including static fields, when they interfere. In the area where two identical fields add constructively, the energy quadruples because it is proportional to the field amplitude squared. We only double the field but quadruple the energy. This is well known with radio waves but it is valid for all the fields, including sound waves which are propagating pressure fields.
This has surprised many people and some have imagined that this would be a way to produce free energy. Of course not. It sounds like OU but it's not OU. When fields interfere, there are as many areas where fields add constructively as destructively. In some places the energy quadruples, in some others, it nullifies. When you integrate the energy all over the space, energy is conserved (the calculus is easy to do when the field sources are isotropic).
What if you extract energy at high amplitude and add energy at low amplitude?
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.24, 07:30:30
The guardians of this energy source employ all the latest detection methods and have a distributed network that can pinpoint the location of any active TPU with an accuracy less than 10 meters. It is no trifle thing to mess with the globe!
EM
How sensitive are these detection methods?
Looking over the latest Gunderson patent, I don't think it is OU, but just another means to separate investors from their money.
The Gunderson device resembles a TPU, uses wires and magnets like a TPU, but it is a pretending TPU devoid of the magical "turbine" effect. This device is simply a non functional MEG, configured in a circular fashion. If it worked it would have been detected at it's first activation and the patent pulled from the registers or not even granted. So just because a cat straps on fake wings does't mean it's now an eagle.
EM
G, enough sensitivity to accomplish the task. Ironically one network started out as a detector of electromagnetic granitic aircraft intruding in our airspace, but that was years ago. Things have improved tenfold since and knowledge and the administration increased. In the past when you broadcast without a FCC license you could be discovered by triangulation eventually but that was communications and SIGINT is still practiced, quite alive and well. but here were dealing with another phenomena and it is detectable just as easily. Will "they" show up for 1 mili watt of extraction or for 1 watt? don't know, but I assume they are fighting a noise floor and the earth itself produces these votices all by itself, but they will investigate eventually. Best thing to do is extract energy from electromagnetic sources like the PLH, the more noise the better. You know how much I love that PLH spectrum!
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.04.24, 13:44:40
What if you extract energy at high amplitude and add energy at low amplitude?
I'm not sure to understand what you mean. If you want extract energy at places of maximum field to replenish places where energy is lacking due to destructive interferences, you must change the field amplitudes at each place. There is no gain. Energy and field amplitude are completely linked. Energy being proportional to amplitude squared, when fields from different sources superpose, field amplitude is not conserved but energy in whole space is.
D=k*A² where D is the energy density, k is a constant and A the amplitude of the field. For example for the electric field, A=E and k=ε
0/2, for the magnetic field, A=B and k=1/(2*µ
0), for a sound A=p (pressure) and k=1/Z*v (Z acoustic impedance, v speed of sound)...
Removing energy somewhere decreases the amplitude of the field (or implies that the sources provide more energy to maintain the field).
The aspect of sensitivity falls in:
Effective Aperture:
http://vk1od.net/antenna/concepts/Ae.htm (http://vk1od.net/antenna/concepts/Ae.htm)
Could not find the main paper from my library.
It talks about the blood pulsing in the ear drum that transmits a field of the outer ear thereby making a huge spherical listening antenna several meters out. When other frequencies hit this spherical envelope those pressures make it to the cartlidge of the outer ear which then are converted into mechanical vibrations to the cochlea. And then into nerve patterns.
Same in the metal antenna world.
You can hear this transmission spectrum by putting you fingers in your ears and listening to the dull throbbing amidst the white noise.
Some would say that is just the pulse in the brain. Exactly!
QuoteRemoving energy somewhere decreases the amplitude of the field (or implies that the sources provide more energy to maintain the field
Yes! This is the [Not spot on] frequency coelescing that SM talked about. Bleed the self destructive resonance to a manageable level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlUY3snoWI8
Regarding the turbine, this video has stuck in my mind ever since I saw it.
If the magnetic flux doesnt exert any torc in that direction, then maybe the field can rotate without any losses or drag in a stationary magnet or coil. If we can get it to do so.
But, maybe a small imbalance in the fast rotating field can induce current in a coil. That way making it an efficient energy storage.
Didnt Spherics say that it is important not to switch of the bias in the AVEC instantly, or else things would go very wrong?
Quote from: Spider on 2012.04.24, 16:55:16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlUY3snoWI8
Regarding the turbine, this video has stuck in my mind ever since I saw it.
If the magnetic flux doesnt exert any torc in that direction, then maybe the field can rotate without any losses or drag in a stationary magnet or coil. If we can get it to do so.
But, maybe a small imbalance in the fast rotating field can induce current in a coil. That way making it an efficient energy storage.
Didnt Spherics say that it is important not to switch of the bias in the AVEC instantly, or else things would go very wrong?
A compass will also align to strong electric fields.
Spheris said not to turn off the bias field suddenly or the sudden change could cause an explosion.
We were talking about what the "kick" is several days ago, so I went back to the Holy Scriptures as delivered to gridbias on the Mount. No one else seems convinced that the "kick" is the same as what Tesla termed RE (radiant electricity), but SM states this is so.
QuoteSome people just sit back and say, well that isn't very much power, we want to make much more.
In order to run you must walk first.
I told you that the simplest form of over unity is a piece of wire and a voltage source.
Anyone can actually connect it and measure.
See for yourself the kick. NO coil no xmrs, just a kick.
That should tell you learned gentleman that there exists a form of energy convertible and useable which is directly related to a simple piece of wire and instantaneous electron flow..
You know it is common knowledge in the electron tube world that aside from the fact that a cold filament conducts more electricity then when hot, one of the things that destroys the filament in electron tubes for that matter is this kick when you first turn on the juice.
The kick is there wether the filament is hot or cold.
The kick helps destroy the filament and cathodes integrity.
So everyone knows about the kick and accepts that it somehow comes from the earth's magnetic field.
So do something with this information!
Not even Edison explained what this means!
In his memoirs he said that it was a fact that we all had to contend with, but that he did not understand why it happened.
If you call yourself experimenters then start to experiment.
I had only this to go on when I started and little by little I figured out how to make many several thousands of kicks per second. . . AND YOU KNOW WHAT, IT ISN"T DIFICULT AT ALL.
QuoteLets talk about the 'kick.'
When the old Edison DC generators were turned on, back in the day, they released this 'kick' and killed many workers in the process.
A man by the name of Tesla had seen this.
He wondered how and why this 'kick' would occur.
So he experimented with wire and disruptive discharges from capacitors.
It was found by him that this kick could be made so powerful that it could explode wires instantly.
This kick came out of the wires perpendicularly.
He discharged capacitors into stout wire and through a spark gap.
The key to the kick's strength and appearance was in how fast Tesla discharged the capacitors into the spark gap AND how fast Tesla STOPPED the flow of current AT the spark gap.
Tesla used all types of devices to stop this flow of current, magnets, a flame, counter-rotating engines.
His goals were to get the time in which the discharge is STOPPED to be much quicker.
As Tesla did this he found that the perpendicular radiations, the ones from the wires, caused electrical effects to appear in wires and other copper/metal materials near the STOPPED current/discharge.
These electrical effects could be made to create electrons on other wires and copper around his STOPPED current/discharge wire.
Combine this with the info Spherics privided, and take a tour of DS' bench if you have forgotten his results and you will see that SM did indeed give us all the secret.
SM spoke of 6BQ7-A tubes in his amplifier and how clear it was:
QuoteI am using 6BQ7-A tubes for the input and phase inverter because they are VHF amplifier triodes designed to operate in Color TV at very high frequencies and so you can imagine how crystal clear my high frequencies are in my stereo amplifier.
I am not that familiar with tubes, but I found a 6BQ7A used in a Schmitt trigger:
http://www.hparchive.com/Manuals/HP-211A-Manual.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmitt_trigger
So, I would expect he used a sharp rise/fall signal.
EDIT:
DS' experiment with the "stinging field":
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=561.0
G
I have been banging on for years that the kick is radiant in nature and so is what is termed to be EM pulses/noise it's all the same thing, each one dissipates to a metal plate as does some rays from the sun hence Tesla's radiant collector, hence the ground plane in a multi layer PCB and hence a screened coax, these are all plates sourounding conductors that carry radiant pulses/noise and each time the energy dissipates to the screen/metal plate/large cross sectional area, which would leave me to believe that a radiant event can be a ripple in the vacuum that moves like a ripple in a pond, EM pulses seems to manifest in many places and radiate outwards.
I bought some 6BQ7A valves i have 5, and my next big project was to do exactly what SM suggested but my lack of experience with valves and lack of £100's of pounds to throw at it have delayed me.
The next best thing is to try the valve rectifier circuit to start with O0
Good luck getting a European EMC stamp of approval on a TPU and thus you could never sell a TPU legally.
Every device built these days does everything it can to stop EM noise.
I am having endless trouble finding a 500-0-500 transformer for a good price, so am stuck right now, although hopefully this will give me time to build the adjustable phase heater filament driver while i look.
QuoteGood luck getting a European EMC stamp of approval on a TPU and thus you could never sell a TPU legally.
The revolution will not be televised...
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.24, 20:41:02
I am having endless trouble finding a 500-0-500 transformer for a good price, so am stuck right now, although hopefully this will give me time to build the adjustable phase heater filament driver while i look.
I really doubt that specific voltage is required. I think the important facts are the center tap and the mentioned external rectifiers. If those rectifiers are placed in series with each 5U4 plate with one polarity rectification happens like normal. If they are reversed (against the polarity) to the 5U4 the tube turns on in each half cycle but doesn't conduct. Hell, with the description given he may not of even lit the filaments. Maybe the whole concept was supposed to be with a cold tube.
As far as radiant energy goes, that is what makes tubes conduct even when there is no potential between cathode and plate.
No mention of other rectifiers in the test that i am doing, just connect the valve to the plate transformer and vary the phase of the filament.
QuoteI originally got the idea from electron circuits which use vacuum rectifiers like the 5U4 GB or 5AR4 etc.
The plate has a high voltage potential with lots of useable power available.
You cant get to it or use it for anything without applying a heating voltage to the cathode or what is the cathode potential of the tube.
So, you put in a small voltage of 5 volts AC 60 Hz which heats up the cathode and welcomes the electron stream from the plate.
Or actually the other way around, but not important for this example of my thoughts.
Now the high voltage power goes through the cathode and travels through the coils of the 5 volt transformer along with the 5 volt AC.
If the plate voltage is not rectified then it is AC with a potential 60 Hz frequency.
That combines with the 5 volt 60 Hz in the coil of the htr transformer and generally amounts to nothing. In fact the power of the 5 volt transformer amounts to nothing.
It is an insignificant power supply except when the two transformers get slightly out of phase with each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another.
Then you can measure all kinds of things going on.
You can generate all kinds of hash and multiple frequencies, and I do mean all kinds
This is the test i intend to perform
PS hopefully a transformerwill turn up, i missed one on flee bay due being in the pub DAM still the pint was nice :)
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.24, 20:41:02
G
I have been banging on for years that the kick is radiant in nature and so is what is termed to be EM pulses/noise it's all the same thing, each one dissipates to a metal plate as does some rays from the sun hence Tesla's radiant collector, hence the ground plane in a multi layer PCB and hence a screened coax, these are all plates sourounding conductors that carry radiant pulses/noise and each time the energy dissipates to the screen/metal plate/large cross sectional area, which would leave me to believe that a radiant event can be a ripple in the vacuum that moves like a ripple in a pond, EM pulses seems to manifest in many places and radiate outwards.
I bought some 6BQ7A valves i have 5, and my next big project was to do exactly what SM suggested but my lack of experience with valves and lack of £100's of pounds to throw at it have delayed me.
The next best thing is to try the valve rectifier circuit to start with O0
Good luck getting a European EMC stamp of approval on a TPU and thus you could never sell a TPU legally.
Every device built these days does everything it can to stop EM noise.
I am having endless trouble finding a 500-0-500 transformer for a good price, so am stuck right now, although hopefully this will give me time to build the adjustable phase heater filament driver while i look.
Why don't you just try the pulsing protocol that Spherics stated? The requirements are straight-forward:
1. Air-core brooks-wound coil of 1000 ft or more copper magnet wire
2. the induced emf after pulse rise must be small enough that there is at least a 1000v drop across the coil
3. longer wire produces a stronger effect
4. a straight up straight down pulse will create plenty of current, even of coil placement is not perfect
So, rounding things off for simplicity and you need at least a 2kv supply at a couple mA's of current, a fast hv switch, and a means to adjust the rate.
DS used an ignatron and stated that a properly tuned magnetically quenched spark gap will also work. Suitable transistors are available for a few cents each, even in the UK.
http://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/2n5551/bipolar-transistor-npn-180v-to/dp/4642480
(£0.129 each)
Quote
I originally got the idea from electron circuits which use vacuum rectifiers like the 5U4 GB or 5AR4 etc. The plate has a high voltage potential with lots of useable power available. You cant get to it or use it for anything without applying a heating voltage to the cathode or what is the cathode potential of the tube. So, you put in a small voltage of 5 volts AC 60 Hz which heats up the cathode and welcomes the electron stream from the plate. Or actually the other way around, but not important for this example of my thoughts. Now the high voltage power goes through the cathode and travels through the coils of the 5 volt transformer along with the 5 volt AC. If the plate voltage is not rectified then it is AC with a potential 60 Hz frequency. That combines with the 5 volt 60 Hz in the coil of the htr transformer and generally amounts to nothing. In fact the power of the 5 volt transformer amounts to nothing. It is an insignificant power supply except when the two transformers get slightly out of phase with each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another. Then you can measure all kinds of things going on. You can generate all kinds of hash and multiple frequencies, and I do mean all kinds.
What I measured during this process was very interesting. All these frequencies occasionally met at the same time with a much larger kick at the output.
Anyway, I have taken a high voltage power supply as follows: 500 v-0-500 v 300 mV plate transformer run it through a full wave silicon circuit then run it through a 5U4 electron tube rectifier. Now you know that the 5U4 requires 5 volts AC at 3 amps for its heater to gather the electrons and complete the circuit. Well, I measured the output from the tube and the result is 500 volts DC at 250 mV. The loss is due to the high impedance of the tube and its limited ability to dissipate more than 250 mA.. The point I wish to make here is that also along with the 500 volt DC is, yes, you guessed it, the 5 volts three amp AC current! They are both completely independent of each other except for some very interesting things I will mention to you some other time.. First of all, obviously you can have several different output components in the power output signal. You can have DC and AC together without any problem.
I was working at a laboratory at the time with much more sophisticated equipment then is available to even most manufacturing companies. I was able to analyses everything coming out of this simple two transformer AC high voltage circuit.
In most power supplies there is lots of hash coming out and designers use a .05 or so to short out as much as possible before it gets to the smoothing capacitors. This hash comes from the mains supply and especially from the transformers themselves. Then the smoothing capacitors take out the rest of the multiple frequency hash along with the gigantic 60 Hz ac left in the B+. I became interested in the interaction between the two AC transformers. The interaction can be very reveling, trust me. Also, there is another interesting analogy. We seem to overlook so many things in our society. They are right in our faces but we just look around them without interest at all. When I began to study the effects of multiple frequencies combined together I found out that when you deliberately strive to create the worst case scenario of frequencies you start to get some very measurable kicks. In themselves they are not much. But if you make enough of them fast sendoff, you get a collectible power spike that is more then the power available to begin with. The destructive heating caused by the eddy currents become the problem we face when we make a really large powerful coil. Now you understand more about the heating problem and why using a fan does not work.
Doesn't sound like the radiant energy used is anything more than the energy radiated by the filament. The solid-state rectifiers are there.
I wonder how sophisticated the equipment needs to be to see an example of these kicks.
If the equipment was so fancy then someone mistaking mV for mA and saying that current is dissipated instead of carried/conducted probably isn't capable of running it. Were those mistakes intentional?
500VDC @ 250mA output with 5VAC @ 3A on top of it?
5VAC on top of it - the 3A will never show - unless that was another mistake or a hint.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.04.24, 15:29:18
I'm not sure to understand what you mean. If you want extract energy at places of maximum field to replenish places where energy is lacking due to destructive interferences, you must change the field amplitudes at each place. There is no gain. Energy and field amplitude are completely linked. Energy being proportional to amplitude squared, when fields from different sources superpose, field amplitude is not conserved but energy in whole space is.
D=k*A² where D is the energy density, k is a constant and A the amplitude of the field. For example for the electric field, A=E and k=ε0/2, for the magnetic field, A=B and k=1/(2*µ0), for a sound A=p (pressure) and k=1/Z*v (Z acoustic impedance, v speed of sound)...
Removing energy somewhere decreases the amplitude of the field (or implies that the sources provide more energy to maintain the field).
It probably not the same. I was thinking there are certain points that we can add energy and certain points that we extract energy that give us advantages. I think the TPU is about resonance. When you speak of resonance, you cannot exclude some form of LC circuit. All can be describe with a magnet motor for me. Let's say a magnet passing through a coil. The open coil will have a sinusoidal waveform. Let's say you want to accelerate the wheel, there are certain position on the waveform you want to inject the current. The picture below shows the waveforms if you were to inject at different position. As you can see, which waveform would you prefer for input? On the energy extraction, would you rather extract 10V @1A or 1V @10A . They are the same power, but Lenz would murder you in one case.
I see.
You gentlemen have not witnessed the true "radiant electricity" effect.
I'll help you guys out if I can.
Here is a conversation with myself and DS regarding RE:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=175.msg1556#msg1556
There was some other goods stuff, but seems some benches are gone now.
QuotePulsing a high voltage dc over a bias dc.
This ties quite nicely into the [Shorting the coil] thread.
QuoteIf the equipment was so fancy then someone mistaking mV for mA and saying that current is dissipated instead of carried/conducted probably isn't capable of running it. Were those mistakes intentional?
500VDC @ 250mA output with 5VAC @ 3A on top of it?
5VAC on top of it - the 3A will never show - unless that was another mistake or a hint.
I am sure they were intentional.
Quotecurrent is dissipated
And here is exactly what we wanted to hear, you see as soon as current is conducted then we loose efficiency due to losses.
QuoteBut if you make enough of them fast sendoff, you get a collectible power spike that is more then the power available to begin with.
To make his words clearer for you 'current/power is radiated'/ fast sendoff
Quote5VAC on top of it - the 3A will never show
3A does not need to show, it's already flowing through the heater.
See diagram below
The Rectified HT comes out of the heater, so we have 5VAC @3A through the heater along with rectified HT do we not?
The 5UG4 only has 4 pins, 2 heater and 2 anodes
Grumpy
Lets just concentrate on seeing SM's kicks, i have built Spherics tetra but my electronics were not fast enough, this is why i designed and built my digital mono's, i did see kicks on the donut coil though O0
Quote from: Spider on 2012.04.24, 16:55:16
...
There is nothing astonishing if one understands what is a field.
In physics, a field is a physical quantity associated with each point of spacetime.
The magnet rotates around its axis of magnetic symmetry. In other words, there is the same magnetic field at each point of space whatever the angular position of the magnet. Therefore the field remains the same at each point when the magnet rotates. If the field is the same at each point of space, it is foolish to expect that something would move or rotate, and surely not the magnetic field!
"Moving field" or "rotating field" don't exist as physical reality: it is just a way of speaking, meaning that the field decreases at some places and increases at others, giving the illusion of the motion of the field amplitude. This is true even when the field comes from a moving source.
Although it is possible to use this effect to move a real object, the field is exactly like a spot light projected onto a wall: the light seems to slide along the wall while it is only some places on the wall that are lit and then extinguished, and nothing is really moving along.
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.04.25, 01:55:43
...
let's say you want to accelerate the wheel, there are certain position on the waveform you want to inject the current. The picture below shows the waveforms if you were to inject at different position. As you can see, which waveform would you prefer for input? On the energy extraction, would you rather extract 10V @1A or 1V @10A . They are the same power, but Lenz would murder you in one case.
There are methods for energy extraction or supply, and instants of time, more favorable than others but for practical reasons, none for questions of principle. If you add or subtract a certain amount of energy in the system, there is no logical reason to think it would disappears or on the contrary be multiplied.
In a LC circuit, energy of current flowing in L, linked to the magnetic field, is exchanged with energy of the charges separation in the capacitor, linked to the electric field. It is like a pendulum exchanging kinetic and gravitational potential energy. The total energy in the oscillating system increases of the same amount as the work you add in the pendulum by increasing its potential or kinetic energy any where and at any time.
Ex, you dont know what you are talking about. Read up on Harold Aspden and his experiment. Spherics mentioned it.
The video is not related to Aspden but to Faraday. It is absurd to show an experiment perfectly according to conventional physics while suggesting exotic causes for common effects!
On the discussion about kicks and tubes...
Quote
500 v-0-500 v 300 mV plate transformer run it through a full wave silicon circuit then run it through a 5U4 electron tube rectifier.
Why is the underlined part never discussed? It is an extreme oddity.
this can be taken in another way as well, maybe i am wrong but this has always meant to me, first try silicon diodes, then try a tube, he is getting us to compare the differing results from each case.? It does not clearly say but what would be the logic behind using the 2 in series. I think it is much more likely for us to compare both results.
i needed to think on this a bit more, if i switch to road directions :) turn right then go straight on looks like you maybe right, but there is no mention of diodes in the test i am doing this comes a little later, so maybe he is asking to try it with just a valve and afterwards try it with both to see what difference the silicon makes, from other things he says, maybe the diodes cause noise as well which interferes with the hash the valve creates, we know we need a certain type of hash, and i am guessing the diodes does something to the hash to destabilize it and make it useless.
Only experimentation will tell us.
First things first let's get the valve up and running O0 and then get the experimental proof
Would you believe I never thought of it that way?
A comparison? Logical.
I suppose I jumped right on the idea of the two sets in series because I knew the silicon bridge would introduce noise. The only noise from the 5U4 would be thermal noise, far less than anything created by the silicon junctions.
So, the obvious difference would be the addition of the emission potential of the heater while using the tube to rectify. C.C
What else is new? :-\
I suppose I should re-run the experiment.
Looks like i posted before you had a chance to see my 2ND post, you may still be right. O0
I think he's trying to teach us the difference between silicon hash and valve hash.
or what happens when you introduce silicon into the equation, maybe giving us some insight into what we need to know to ultimately being able to use silicon to built an equivalent semiconductor circuit.
QuoteSo, the obvious difference would be the addition of the emission potential of the heater while using the tube to rectify. Roll Eyes
What else is new? Undecided
I think it's much more likely that we need to try without silicon, just valve, get the hash and analyze it.
Then introduce silicon as well as the valve and see what the difference is, we know he does not like silicon because of the noise introduced so chances are it will interfere with the hash from the valve and create a non usable resulting hash.
Again we can test all this.
To do the experiment you need to first be in a position to vary the phase of the heater, are you able to do this? because this is what is needed to create the hash in the first place
I think i can say i have seen the kick using fast rise time pulses, but this is not the same as creating kicks from a clean sinewave, hash from a clean sinewave should have a defined set of harmonics devoid of all the switching harmonics produced from a fast pulse.
He is teaching us which frequencies we need to combine to generate the kick at will. chances are they will be a set of phase aligned harmonics devoid of any other interfering harmonics.
Once we know what they are we can mix them into a coil and collect the radiated energy.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.04.25, 08:52:30
There are methods for energy extraction or supply, and instants of time, more favorable than others but for practical reasons, none for questions of principle. If you add or subtract a certain amount of energy in the system, there is no logical reason to think it would disappears or on the contrary be multiplied.
In a LC circuit, energy of current flowing in L, linked to the magnetic field, is exchanged with energy of the charges separation in the capacitor, linked to the electric field. It is like a pendulum exchanging kinetic and gravitational potential energy. The total energy in the oscillating system increases of the same amount as the work you add in the pendulum by increasing its potential or kinetic energy any where and at any time.
I don't know. I'll have to question this. Suppose If I have an inductor at constant current state (probably when Cap at 0 volts and current max). I inject an additional current of the same magnitude. KCL looks fine, but when I disconnect the injection, the energy in the coil is now 4 times its original. Did I inject 3 times the energy more or is this impossible scenario?
QuoteThe only noise from the 5U4 would be thermal noise
I think you missed the point here, the noise will appear in the 5U4 but only when the phase of the heaters differs from the phase of the HT, the noise or hash as SM calls it will appear, he made a point of studying it when occasionally the hash meets, it creates a kick
SM states the noise comes from the transformers themselves, it is only when the kick and hash is radiated that a net gain occurs, and we know this net gain feeds itself.
I recommend using the easiest method to achieve the desired results, lest you never finish at all. The easiest metod is not tubes unless you already have tubes and power supplies available. If you use a magnetically quenched gap, then all you need is a power supply and your coil. DS used a commutator to set the rep rate. SCR's and avalache transistors can be setup on prototype boards (not perfect, but it does suffice for quick tests).
If you would like to see the effect that I believe was first noticed by SM, then setup a bifilar-coiled speaker, with it's magnet and delay (per spherics' directions) for one of the coils, then turn on the amp. The amp privides a pulse at turn-on, and the coil responds with an unusually large thump, much larger than without the delay. Hmm. Why is it so much louder when the delay is in place?
G i agree a magnetically quenched spark gap will produce a radiant event, but the whole point that SM got to understand is how to create a pure radiant event, you see a spark gap has unwanted constituents as well, these mix to bring the correct harmonics off tune, we need pure ingredients to make the perfect harmonics. I will strive to create a well tuned kick even though i know the dangers.
You can throw an endless amount of energy at creating a kick, but we don't want to do this, we want to use the minimum ingredients, when we have this right we will have one massive big kick that when the radiation is collected will contain much more energy than was used to create the ingredients.
The kick is like a women, one cracked tooth and it no longer looks good ;D
Forget all the stuff about harmonics and resonance.
You do not need large amounts of energy or perfectly tunes harmonics of some unknown frequency. Use the information that someone took great risk to provide, and you will be better for it.
Quote
BBB_AAA_correspondence 04-17-08 – how to see ether oscillation
If the steady field is from a battery you'll be able to see on the terminals of the battery.
OR
Charge a 100V cap to 50V. Cut two separate pieces of wire around 8 feet long that has good insulation. Connect one wire to one terminal and the other wire to the other terminal - no circuit!. Curl the wires up into two rough cylinders, diameter unimportant. Place near the CCU. Now pulse the coil whilst measuring the
voltage on the cap, and scoping the cap. On the scope it looks like a very short burst of sustained oscillation. voltage on cap will steadyly rise. Cut wire down to get best pulse definition.
The part about "steady field is from a battery" refers to using a separate coil around our pulsed coil and applying DC to this separate coil from a battery. I saw a small pulse and the voltage on the battery, as viewed on a scope, increased by a couple of volts (2 to 3 volts, as I recall). So, do not expect a significant change at the battery, to charge the battery, or light your home with this simple test. You have to build it up to do anything with it.
QuoteTo detect cold current look for a small over voltage on the batteries. It doesn't seem to cause a surge in over volts. We haven't been able to work out any method of detecting raw cold current flow other than it will light light bulbs and charge caps and batteries, which are all secondary events.
G
I am not working on Spherics device right now i am working on SM's TPU, i am only repeating what SM says.
As far as i know you are trying to steer me down a path that has lead many to have no results? how many tried building Spherics device with no luck.
Well i would prefer to at least find out exactly what the kick is and how to create it.
Your quote only tells you how to detect the kick not how to produce it in the first place.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.25, 16:01:01
G
I am not working on Spherics device right now i am working on SM's TPU, i am only repeating what SM says.
As far as i know you are trying to steer me down a path that has lead many to have no results? how many tried building Spherics device with no luck.
Well i would prefer to at least find out exactly what the kick is and how to create it.
Your quote only tells you how to detect the kick not how to produce it in the first place.
The only person who semi-publicly completed an AVEC and shared results was Roberto. Look at what he actually did, the voltage levels he used, and it appears he did not achieve the 1000v drop requirement, which negates the possibility of an RE effect.. No one has ever shown that the AVEC does not work as designed by Spherics. All we have is opinions and assumptions.
I have already posted what Tesla, DS, SM, and myself have used to see kicks (the RE Effect).
Peterae,
I have the means to vary phase relationship between the heater and plate supplies. I have a small variable frequency drive powering a vacuum cleaner motor. The motor had a generator output winding. I rewound that output winding some years ago to give me higher current with lower voltage.
The speed control isn't as good as an FG so I'll be ready to provide better control.
I have what I need from the other tests to try different scenarios.
SM was correct about phasing of the heater. Problems are fewer when the center-tapped 2.5-0-2.5 winding is used. There were still fewer problems when each leg of the heater had a bypass capacitor between it and B- (cathode-plate negative side or chassis ground). Phasing remained a potential problem until an isolated cathode was used. Now that I think about it, that was probably the main purpose of isolating the cathode - less coupling for the heater to the main current path.
The Spherics discussion isn't my bag. I wasted more money and time on that than most of my projects.
I can't disagree with 'The RE Effect' as I know energy is indeed radiated outward from a conductor during a very fast turn-on. I have succeeded in charging metal objects and easily penetrating the best of Faraday cages. I'm not talking about cages made from chicken wire in someones basement, either.
It is all real. What isn't real are practically all claims of generating the effect that I've read. It isn't magic. It just isn't conventional. I've learned a lot from it but paid the price by destroying my most valued equipment that wasn't even plugged into power or connected to the experiments.
Please, no advice on protecting equipment. I know more about that than most.
There seem to be a few interpretations of what a kick is, and that's because of the context in which it was mentioned.
1) the rectifier tube and filament breaking from the kick discussion seems the most clear to me, and it clearly denotes the kick as being a physical jerk of the wire due to high inrush curent producing a force in the presence of a magnetic field, whether it comes from the earth, a magnet, or the one generated by the current itself.
2) the discussion about the hash noise that occasionally combines to produce a big kick is also spot on but it describes HOW the strong current pulse can be generated differently than just flipping a switch, like described in point #1 above. However, the kick should not be confused with the current that causes it. I would encourage referring to the current spike as an impulse. So, the current impulse in the presence of a magnetic field produces the physical kick, but it's not the kick. The TPUs do not work when the magnet is removed, so it's vitally important to understand this subtle difference between cause and effect.
3) there's some other references like talking about tesla, etc, and each needs to be scrutinized too see if it's talking about the current or the result of the current. In my opinion there are many ways to create sharp rise time current waveforms, and of high levels too, so we should keep this in our minds as we read SM letters.
I'll leave you guys with one admonition, ignore the physical movement aspect, or the kick, and you will not succeed. If you leave it out you will still have fun building tesla coils etc, but it will not be a TPU with it's gyroscopic properties and power conversion capability.
Respectfully,
EM
Hello,
I do not know much about the TPU threads or what has been discussed. But I thought I would share some information which may be of use. This stands IF the TPU is an antenna of sorts.
Imagine a metal sphere, as a free space capacity, acting as an antenna. Its surface area (capacity) dictates its coupling to the environment. A 1 volt change in potential in the surrounding environment creates a 1 volt disturbance
in the sphere which is referenced to ground. Now if this sphere were charged to a high voltage, the surrounding field "reaches out" and interacts with the environment to a greater degree. For example, if you have the sphere charged to 64 volts, then take a probe at 2 times the radius, you will find on a 16 volt potential (law of inverse squares). If you double your radius again you will feel 4 volts, and again you will feel 1 volt. you now have a sphere of potential with a radius 8 times larger than the metal sphere, with a potential of 1 volt. If there is a 1 volt change in the environment, per the law of inverse squares the sphere in the center (charged to 64) will feel a 64 volt change. It is as if we have drastically increased the surface area of our antenna, and its ability to couple to the environment.
Lesson to take from this example, a charged object, (either electric or magnetic) couples to the environment better than a non charged item.
How do we create a field, which interacts well with our environment?
One way to do it would be to create a ring circuit.
Imagine a toroidal coil, and treat it as a transmission line, so it is a continuous loop. If we hook a single wire up to any point on it, and excite it at a harmonic of the fundamental, we will set our coil into resonance. The single point excitation will propagate around the coil in two separate directions, one left hand wise of our input point, and one right hand. This is a standard resonant mode in such a coil, two waves propagating in two directions, the summation of which is our standing wave. The problem with this setup is the polarity constantly changes. Above the coil you will have a positive potential, beneath a negative, and these will alternate polarity per your frequency. Also your magnetic field will alternate its direction in the same way.
There is a way however to get the wave to propagate in one direction only around the coil, making it a one way transmission line. The wave will travel circularly around the coil in ONE direction only. This is done through directional coupling, or 1/4 wave interference. Excite the ring circuit at TWO spaces separated by 1/4 wave. All wave components traveling one way will cancel, and all wave components traveling in the opposite direction will double. You now have a unidirectional wave propagating around our toroidal circuit. You can using this method create standing waves which will grow until the physical properties of the coil break down causing destruction. (this would be a parametric approach to excite the coil) This is how "diodes" are made in microwave and RF engineering to get unidirectional wave propagation. These ring circuits were once used in industry to test very high power components, when you did not have access to a very high power, power supply.
If a person were to use a ceramic core, which had either piezoelectric or magnetostrictive properties, we will note that a mechanical resonance will also be set up in the core of our toroid. If we can match the frequency of the transmission line to the acoustic mechanical resonant frequency of the core we would be playing with a very interesting device. We are causing a unidirectional spinning field around a toroid, with an accompanied acoustic unidirectional wave. Gyroscopic effects may apply.
http://www.energeticforum.com/187349-post3877.html
http://www.google.com/patents?id=I-OsAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=false
:)
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.04.25, 17:01:49
I can't disagree with 'The RE Effect' as I know energy is indeed radiated outward from a conductor during a very fast turn-on. I have succeeded in charging metal objects and easily penetrating the best of Faraday cages. I'm not talking about cages made from chicken wire in someones basement, either.
It is all real. What isn't real are practically all claims of generating the effect that I've read. It isn't magic. It just isn't conventional. I've learned a lot from it but paid the price by destroying my most valued equipment that wasn't even plugged into power or connected to the experiments.
Ah, you have seen it!
Let's talk about the "kick":
From SM:
Quote
Lets talk about the 'kick.'
When the old Edison DC generators were turned on, back in the day, they released this 'kick' and killed many workers in the process.
A man by the name of Tesla had seen this.
He wondered how and why this 'kick' would occur.
So he experimented with wire and disruptive discharges from capacitors.
It was found by him that this kick could be made so powerful that it could explode wires instantly.
This kick came out of the wires perpendicularly.
He discharged capacitors into stout wire and through a spark gap.
The key to the kick's strength and appearance was in how fast Tesla discharged the capacitors into the spark gap AND how fast Tesla STOPPED the flow of current AT the spark gap.
Tesla used all types of devices to stop this flow of current, magnets, a flame, counter-rotating engines.
His goals were to get the time in which the discharge is STOPPED to be much quicker.
As Tesla did this he found that the perpendicular radiations, the ones from the wires, caused electrical effects to appear in wires and other copper/metal materials near the STOPPED current/discharge.
These electrical effects could be made to create electrons on other wires and copper around his STOPPED current/discharge wire.
From Spherics:
---->>>The initial ether responce is Tesla's radiant energy.<<<----
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.04.25, 17:39:44
Ah, you have seen it!
Yes, quite often.
The truth be told, the rise-time is barely important. It is the off-time, the ramp from switch-off to ambient levels, that matters. I'll concede that rise-time is important only because if you have that you probably have good decay time. I know of no way to produce the effect pulse by pulse. The effective energy isn't what you put into a device. It is what comes back after you device steps out of the way.
Once you have charged adjacent loops you still have problems. That charge is useless unless it is moving at a very high velocity. Whatever comes back must be manageable and useable. I can destroy circuits all day. That is useless.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.04.25, 18:15:45
Yes, quite often.
The truth be told, the rise-time is barely important. It is the off-time, the ramp from switch-off to ambient levels, that matters. I'll concede that rise-time is important only because if you have that you probably have good decay time. I know of no way to produce the effect pulse by pulse. The effective energy isn't what you put into a device. It is what comes back after you device steps out of the way.
Once you have charged adjacent loops you still have problems. That charge is useless unless it is moving at a very high velocity. Whatever comes back must be manageable and useable. I can destroy circuits all day. That is useless.
We may be talking about different effects then.
Come on, what is a fast transition, remember me talking about feeding a sine into a 4 diode bridge, what the difference between the 2, one has only a fundamental frequency, the other has a rich assortment of harmonics, the fast the switch on the higher the harmonic content, ring any bells, have you heard about me talking about harmonics before.
G one minuet you say don't get involved in harmonics then the next you start talking about a fast switch on.
Remember me speaking about the inductor in the leg of the OTPU, he places a magnet on top, well i did the experiment and the difference is that with the magnet on the inductor the sine get square shoulders, the stronger the magnet the squarer the shoulders the more harmonic content there is.
Is anyone hearing me >:-)
Thanks for posting Armagdn03 very interesting O0
WW,
from your description I agree with what you are saying. A magnetic field builds up slowly due to inductance, but interupt the curent suddenly, after it is already present, and the magnetic field will decay rapidly and induce huge voltages, that can easily damage ESD sensitive semiconductor circuitry.
This voltage amplification method, or better know as inductive kickback, is the basic principle utilized in automotive induction coils, in voltage boosters, HV generators, etc...
All,
However, the principles utilized in the TPU, are not simply electromagnetic phenomena, and this is the point I want to drive home.
If I were to rank the importance of the principles utilized in the TPU, I would rank the VIBRATION as number 1, not because physical vibration is anymore magical than electromagnetic oscillations in a circuit, but because people tend to ignore this principle. If there were no electromagnetic interactions to play a role, then vibration by itself is not significant at all. The combination of vibration and electromagnetic oscillations is what gives rise to the turbine effect which converts energy.
Think of the TPU as a sort of loudspeaker which is a vibrator which moves the air particles so we can hear the music, however, the TPU is not designed to make music audible, but is simply a resonating ring that develops circumferentialy traveling waves that interact with the magnetic field. Its acoustic impedance is very high, and as a result it only produces a "slight sound" as has been testified. The important principle is the interplay of the rotating magnetic fields and the ring motion that gives rise to a unique dynamo effect which extracts energy from the relativity of it all, from eather, and as you'll see later from the earth itself.
The best illustration I can think of to help you guys is a hula hoop. I have mentioned this before. If you ever watch a child swing their hips to keep a hula hoop going, it is this same dynamic that occurs in the TPU. The force that keeps the ring going, however, is not provided by a child, but by the magnetic field and the current that flows. It is simply the Lorentz force, and since the rotating magnetic field and the currents change, this force rotates around the TPU, but its electrical phase relative to the motion of the ring is critical. Just like a child needs to be SYNCHRONIZED with the hulla hoop, so the rotating magnetic field and the current needs angular synchronization relative to the traveling motion of the ring which is vibrating and worping in a similar circular fashion. Specifically, the Lorentz force needs to be 90 deg ahead of the vibratory wavefront on the ring.
The magic of the TPU, if one realy ponders the intricacies of it all, and may I add that not even the famous Dr Swinzinger and not even the inventor itself properly discovered hence the energy comes from, but it is a well kept and guarded secret as we learned from his visit to his attorny's offce, is the VORTEX phenomena that occurs. This is not a simple concept to grasp and involves the CORRIOLIS effect on the surface of this planet. In the south, the TPU operates in reverse, meaning the spin is the other way. So, indirectly, the TPU taps into the ROTATIONAL KINETIC energy of the earth, with a complex interaction via the magnetic field of the earth, and this is VERY VERY DANGEROUS TO THE EXISTANCE OF MANKIND ON THIS PLANET. How would you like it if the earth slowed down and stoped and where you live you would be FACING THE SUN 24 HOURS A DAY! But wait there won't be 24 hours in a day any longer, a day would become the duration of a year, or 365 days. Or you would be in the DARK for 365 "days", freezing your ass off? Or you were in between, and tornado like winds would be ripping your houses appart due to the tremperature differences between day and night! But all of this is not as bad as what I'm about to say. Imagine that our MAGNETIC SHIELD, went down, and the earth magnetic field collapsed due to lack of motion and rotation, and all the solar flux would be blowing away the atmosphere slowly reducing this wonderful blue globe full of life and water to a desolate planet like MARS!
Get the picture?
Initially it is tempting to think a little power extraction is ok, but once the secret gets out, and everybody extracts energy, we will bring the earth to a standstill in our LIFETIMES!
So be carefull what you wish for, not all technology is beneficial!
EM
QuoteI would rank the VIBRATION as number 1
Again i have done the experiments, remember the crackling from the wire i had been getting, it's the result of an enormous sudden magnetic pulse (EMP), you hold a magnetic close you feel the tug, it results from timing 2 sets of harmonics, when they combine correctly you get a large kick/tug/EMP/Magnetic pulse.
SM tells us to create a large amount of these and collect the radiation/pulses during this process there is a net gain, do it correctly and it will feed itself, but to do it correctly you need the harmonic recipe this is where i have failed so far, my best results were by combine fast transition's created by 2 white noise generators, i used whitenoise because i did not know the correct harmonics to use, i proved that once in a while the 2 sets of harmonics were indeed corrected, i was getting 80 watt pulses in a single wire loop.
I am now moving on to track down what the recipe is.
Think about the tug on the filament, it an EMP/Momentary magnetic pulse which is large enough to tug on the earths magnetic field causing an alignment.
It has been known sometimes to get the tug from a degauss coil, a momentary alignment with any sourounding metal(Tube Shadow Mask) i have felt this many times, it only happens at switch on, and the degauss offcourse is AC
You know....I have yet to see ANYBODY with possibly the exception of Rodin make an electrical "vortex" This is because almost all designs alternate polarity, you cannot have a tornado which switches one direction then the next millions of times a second. You need a sustained unidirectional polarity. This takes one way transmission lines and directional coupling, something which has not been played with. Similar story with the cores. These have multiple resonant points, some related to electrical properties, some related to the elasticity of the material and its deformation under electric or magnetic stresses. When you play with the acoustic side, you can match the acoustic and electric within the same structure.....This is very very damn similar to what Frank Znidarsic is talking about.
suit yourselves
I am not dismissing what you are saying, i have chosen my path and explained why, when i am ready i will know for sure
I am sure theres big holes in what i say but that's because i am not there yet.
Quote from: gridbias on 2012.04.21, 04:35:06
We are only interested in the secondary emission from the tube .
I think of it in terms of particle flow from the cathode to the plate ....you know "the other way round" "for this example of my thoughts"
read the golden words again ..it is all there ..just not in context .
I would expect diversion posts on this
related ... warning on WHITE SPARK PROBLEM Some not so perfectly designed amplifiers can cause a power triode or rectifier to spark.
http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/articles/white-spark.htm
http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/articles/Manufacturer-white-spark.htm
Thanks for posting this wings O0
It's good RCA are on the ball, maybe they learnt their lesson from imploding TVs >:-)
Think how can a tube allow excessive current to flow from the plate during power up when the filament is cold DOH, related to the tug on the filament, all the explanations apart from RCA are just mentioning the result not the cause, they are vacuum tubes they have vacuums, why would a vacuum allow a high current at switch on, they suggest using external resistors to limit this, they blame the amp design and say it's not the tubes fault, WRONG
This again proves to me the tug is being caused by the harmonic transients at power up which is what i have been saying
Hot switching transients ^-^
Wow!
I remember reading those warnings but never could find a copy. Thanks!
------------
Is it getting a little warm in here? I thought it might be because the tubes are heating up again but I have the feeling the heat isn't from the tubes :D
Now i was never that hot on tubes ;D but when you get a shorted turn on the loptx the efficiency diode valve glows red hot O0
I mention this because from my experience which is long ago, from what i remember is that excessive current cause over heating of the valve body, that may have been the construction of the valve, but my point is that it happens over a short time while hot, not at power up.which is totally different to the white spark which some manufacturers blame excessive current.
My early TV career nearly ended short, i was working on a valve TV while on and hot, the back of my hand hit a hot valve, my hand jerked upwards and the middle joint of my finger touched a pin on the scan coils, there was a path to earth via the dag which my finger nail was near, i can tell you the RF burn hurt for months, a black hole drilled down to the bone and exited through a hole in my nail, i can still feel the pain now, needless to say i never did this ever again.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=306.0
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=562.0
Quote...but to do it correctly you need the harmonic recipe this is where i have failed so far, my best results were by combine fast transition's created by 2 white noise generators, i used whitenoise because i did not know the correct harmonics to use, i proved that once in a while the 2 sets of harmonics were indeed corrected, i was getting 80 watt pulses in a single wire loop.
I am now moving on to track down what the recipe is.
The addition of harmonics is just the way that SM chose to utilize in producing many kicks per second. Can the kicks be generated by other means? absolutely! He tells us to inject the fundamental, its second harmonic and its third harmonic. Those who are familiar with Fourier series, they already can guess what waveform that is. What hasn't been specified is the phasing, and one can add cosines, sines or a mixture.
By adding cosines in this harmonic sequence we get the famous, IMPULSE function, and this is the one that I'm convinced SM used.
By adding odd harmonic components of the sine waveform, we get the famous SQUARE wave function.
The graphs below illustrate these waveforms that I generated for you guys.
In the last graph, I zoom in and plot the f1,f2,f3 cosines and their sum. Notice how the slope of the sum is much steeper than even the steepest f3 component. If this waveform represents a current waveform, than the magnetic field associated with it would have a steep change in time, or dB/dt, and so it would induce a high voltage in any loops of wire, much higher then otherwise!
Let's ask the question:
is this sumation of magnetic fields the secret of free energy in and of itself? I believe the answer is no, not really, it is only a part of the "turbine" effect. When all things come together just right, with the correct phasing, and at the correct frequency, than the magic occurs!
Enjoy!
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.25, 23:23:58
But, let's ask the question: is this sumation of magnetic fields the secret of free energy in and of itself? The answer is no, not really, it is only a part of the "turbine" effect.
Enjoy!
EM
Shouldn't the energy of individual waveforms are : f1^2 + f2^2 + f3^2 ?
And the energy of the resultant waveform is : (f1+f2+f3)^2 ?
yes that's correct Gibbs, but you see, we are only focusing on the OUTPUT.
When we focus on the INPUT, or the feedpoint of those harmonics, that's when we realize the energy balance holds. If we could create those frequencies in the absence of the influence of the other harmonics, than we could achive extra energy.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.25, 23:48:44
yes that's correct Gibbs, but you see, we are only focusing on the OUTPUT.
When we focus on the INPUT, or the feedpoint of those harmonics, that's when we realize the energy balance holds. If we could create those frequencies in the absence of the influence of the other harmonics, than we could achive extra energy.
EM
I don't really see it but okay, thanks EM. I drew a picture below. Let's say we have a wire and a magnet on the bottom. We inject f1 into the wire. The wire would move back and forth with the current we inject. If we add an addition harmonic f2, it would oscillate with the resultant function, right? If it works, maybe we should make magnet motors with frequency control. lol
Gibbs, in the TPU ring, as the frequencies resonate, each frequency is present at each of the 3 feed points, so each feedpoint sees 3 frequencies.
But forget about the TPU for a second, and let's concentrate on something more simple. I've studied these concepts in depth a while back and realized I can't generate extra energy. You see, when the waveforms add up, the POWER increases, but the time duration might be shorter, so the ENERGY that was disippated stays constant. That's one problem. In another conceptual test with transmission lines, we can introduce pulses without one pulse influencing the other at the source or at the time of insertion on the line, and the pulses can travel and interfere with each other and superimpose later in the middle of the line.
In the graphic below, I simulated a simple transmission line, formed of two tline elements, with two pulse generator voltage sources at the ends. The pulses are identical and begin from both ends and meet in the middle. When they meet they superimpose and the voltage increases by a factor of 2. Contrary to what I said earlier, the pulse keeps its pulse duration, so we might be tempted to jump up and down at this point and say we have free energy because obviously:
2 * (1 volt)^2/50 is less than (2 volts)^2/50 = 4 * (1 volt)^2/50, so twice the power and the same DURATION of time, so TWICE THE ENERGY, right?
One practical problem with this scenario is energy extraction. If you tap into the line you change it's impedance, and the voltage will not be twice anymore. Moreover, the pulse wavefronts don't care wheather the other pulse is present, they march forward and see a constant 50 ohm impedance of the t-line, and power flow is constant.
I still brainstorm once in a while along these lines. I've tried so many things in the past, but once in a while something new captures my attention.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.26, 01:21:24
Gibbs, in the TPU ring, as the frequencies resonate, each frequency is present at each of the 3 feed points, so each feedpoint sees 3 frequencies.
But forget about the TPU for a second, and let's concentrate on something more simple. I've studied these concepts in depth a while back and realized I can't generate extra energy. You see, when the waveforms add up, the POWER increases, but the time duration might be shorter, so the ENERGY that was disippated stays constant. That's one problem. In another conceptual test with transmission lines, we can introduce pulses without one pulse influencing the other at the source or at the time of insertion on the line, and the pulses can travel and interfere with each other and superimpose later in the middle of the line.
In the graphic below, I simulated a simple transmission line, formed of two tline elements, with two pulse generator voltage sources at the ends. The pulses are identical and begin from both ends and meet in the middle. When they meet they superimpose and the voltage increases by a factor of 2. Contrary to what I said earlier, the pulse keeps its pulse duration, so we might be tempted to jump up and down at this point and say we have free energy because obviously:
2 * (1 volt)^2/50 is less than (2 volts)^2/50 = 4 * (1 volt)^2/50, so twice the power and the same DURATION of time, so TWICE THE ENERGY, right?
One practical problem with this scenario is energy extraction. If you tap into the line you change it's impedance, and the voltage will not be twice anymore. Moreover, the pulse wavefronts don't care wheather the other pulse is present, they march forward and see a constant 50 ohm impedance of the t-line, and power flow is constant.
I still brainstorm once in a while along these lines. I've tried so many things in the past, but once in a while something new captures my attention.
EM
Okay, I've just read up on transmission line. I think I have an idea of your simulation. Now for the part of shorter time while energy increase, I don't think it's true. If you have two identical wave, you can just add them up and the time duration would still be identical for higher peak. I agree with the simulation about time duration.
Yes, I would jump down and say we have extra energy because obviously...we do. Your concern about energy extraction is exactly my concern yesterday. Tapping into this energy would change impedance and reduce voltage. However, we must take into consideration the function of impedance and voltage change. This is why I posted the question to Exn. about high current low voltage or high voltage low current. Seems like the voltage change depends on how much impedance you disturbed. This is why radiant energy makes sense for the mode of energy extraction because it does not disturb the impedance while still can extract considerable amount of energy in the form of high voltage.
Well, the final problem I see is. Am I making sense... ;D
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.04.25, 22:58:31
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=306.0
G, I just looked at this thread, and I have to say that a lot of people can get confused when they take Stevens words out of context, and I'm sure we can all agree about that. Steven said a lot and usually it is to make a point and if that is missed we could get absorbed into the wrong area of research.
I would like to clarify his tube discussion that is mentioned in the first link. SM's main point is that DC and AC can coexist just fine, and he gives the example of his circuit. There is nothing magical in that circuit, in fact it is a useless circuit, just a rectifier which acts like a resistor and dissipates energy.
1) He rectifies the 500-0-500 voltage from the transformer with silicon diodes, or any diodes for that matter, and gets a 500 volt DC voltage.
2) He takes this voltage and applies it to a rectifier diode, but doesn't mention a load, so we assume the 5u4GB tube drops the whole voltage, but the current runing through the tube is limited to 250 mA, because the tube has a nonlinear resistance curve, it is not an IDEAL DIDODE with zero forward resistance by any means. The resistance at the operating point is actually, 500/0.250 = 2 k ohms
3) The 250 mA DC current flows through the cathode filament and is superimposed in the filament to the 3 amp AC current that heats up the filament. So yes, the two currents can coexist just fine, both AC and DC currents.
That's all he was trying to say, very simple. There is nothing magical with the silicon diodes, no mysterious "hash" that produces some weird additions in the tube, nothing like that.
For your enjoyment, I put together some images for you. The first shows the 5U4GB tube and I show you how a schematic on the side of how the filament is placed inside the square tube plate elements. this tube is a "full wave rectifier" because it is meant to be used with a center tapped transformer, so it only needs 2 rectification units, not 4 like we are acustomed with these days. Four rectification elements, in a bridge configuration, are only needed when we have a regular transformer.
The second image shows the circuit that SM used for his analogy of DC and AC flowing together through the cathode filament.
I hope this dispells any confusion, and I certainly hope it does not add to any confusion that might be present already.
EM
SM's quote:
Anyway, I have taken a high voltage power supply as follows:
500 v-0-500 v 300 mA plate transformer run it through a full wave silicon
circuit then run it through a 5U4 electron tube rectifier.
Now you know that the 5U4 requires 5 volts AC at 3 amps for its heater to
gather the electrons and complete the circuit.
Well, I measured the output from the tube and the result is 500 volts DC
at 250 mA.
The loss is due to the high impedance of the tube and its limited ability to
dissipate more than 250 mA..
The point I wish to make here is that also along with the 500 volt
DC is, yes, you guessed it, the 5 volts three amp AC current!
They are both completely independent of each other except for
some very interesting things I will mention to you some other
time..
First of all, obviously you can have several different output
components in the power output signal.
You can have DC and AC together without any problem.
QuoteIs anyone hearing me
In regards to the GK4:
It had horizontal iron wire cores with vertical coppers. Otto had me not only square pulse the verticals but then feed the other ends back into the cores, one pair in the forward direction and the other pair in reverse. Just like Tesla's version. The iron wire became the pulsating bias while the verticals became like the Tesla coil primary. So the secondaries (iron wire core) didn't need tuning because the magnetic field was there at some point when the square pulse came in. This achieved the shorting input into the magnetic field. While the core was biased always in 1 direction the bucking of the primaries exhibited a spark gap type impulse onto the secondary. Only when the frequencies were correct for the circumference and the bias field available would this thing magnetically explode. Purely random in fashion which made it nasty. But basically I had a spherical Tesla coil that fired from the inside out when the input pulses on the primary aligned with the hysterisis or latency of the lagging magnetic field in the core.
Quote
...
So, indirectly, the TPU taps into the ROTATIONAL KINETIC energy of the earth, with a complex interaction via the magnetic field of the earth, and this is VERY VERY DANGEROUS TO THE EXISTANCE OF MANKIND ON THIS PLANET. How would you like it if the earth slowed down and stoped and where you live you would be
...
;D ;D ;D This is really to put the cart before the horse.
The annual mankind's need of energy is less than 2 thousandth of a billionth of the ROTATIONAL KINETIC energy of the earth. Even with strongly increased needs, we would have for millions years of energy without significant earth slowing. And this would apply only if the TPU worked (and worked according to this theory), which is a rash gamble when there is not one confirmed selfrunning TPU.
https://www.cbrniac.apgea.army.mil/Products/Documents/USANCA%20Journals%20and%20Reports/NBC_Report_Fall_Winter04.pdf
page 50
Explanation of what causes the EMP during a Nuclear explosion.
QuoteTo look into this possibility, the system contractor formed a committee, of which Benjamin Sussholz was the secretary. Its membership included a general, several colonels, corporation vice presidents, many engineers, and some experimental physicists, all very practical and responsible people who could fix the system if they knew what the threat to it was. There were also three theoretical physicists—Richard Latter and William Karzas of the Rand
Corporation's Physics Group, and myself. Practical is not an adjective often applied to theoretical physicists, who may not be able to make any real apparatus work. But we knew enough atomic physics to estimate the currents and electrical conductivity that would be induced in the air by the gamma rays from a nuclear burst, and we knew how to solve Maxwell's equations for the electric and magnetic fields that would be generated. Latter and Karzas, working together at Rand, and I at Los Alamos, came to the same conclusion: an outward flux of Compton recoil electrons driven by gamma rays from the burst would indeed tend to push the geomagnetic field out, but the electrical conductivity resulting from intense ionization of the air would oppose and greatly reduce the movement of the geomagnetic field. Widespread burnout of the inter-site cables should not occur. However, there would be some leakage of signals through the cable shields to the inner wires, which could cause damage or upset to sensitive circuitry, a
problem the system's electrical engineers should be able to handle. In this connection, the peak-current data obtained by Haas in PLUMBBOB was useful. I presented an analysis of this data based on the assumption that the current was driven by the radial electric field generated by the Compton current, rather than by geomagnetic field changes. From this model it followed that the peak current was approximately proportional to the square root of the gamma-ray dose. This result was in agreement with the experimental data, and provided a rule for scaling to higher yields.
Quote from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse
QuoteThe Earth's magnetic field acts on these electrons to change the direction of electron flow to a right angle to the geomagnetic field. This interaction of the Earth's magnetic field and the downward electron flow produces a very large, but very brief, electromagnetic pulse over the affected area.[18]
So we now know how to create radiant energy, all we need is a spiraling electron and a gamma ray, so the next question is how do you make gamma rays.
Hang on gamma rays are produced in valves, that's why they would use heavy screening around the horizontal stage of a TV encasing the valves, and that's also why a CRT tube has large quantities of lead mixed in.
So to generate gamma rays we need energetic electrons, so to close the loop, we need to use the EMP to create fast moving electrons to again create more gamma rays, we now have tapped the earths field(by Excluding it?) and also now have a system that fuels itself.
The only problem with all of this is i don't see any heavy screening in the tpu :o
maybe you get the same effect with less energetic particles, Tesla used a UV ray on his radiant collector and had good results.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.26, 11:14:55
https://www.cbrniac.apgea.army.mil/Products/Documents/USANCA%20Journals%20and%20Reports/NBC_Report_Fall_Winter04.pdf
page 50
Explanation of what causes the EMP during a Nuclear explosion.
Quote from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse
upside-down
http://d1027732.mydomainwebhost.com/articles/articles/HAARP%20Heating%20Electrons.htm
It may be easier than seems.
According to discussion, a charging and discharging of a capacitor yields OU.
q=CV for charging and discharging capacitor
i=q/t
The difference between discharge and charge is time to give different current .
Wilhelm Röntgen performed two experiments, between 1885 and 1888, that confirmed both the existence of "displacement current", and that moving charges, real or virtual, are equivalent to electric current in wires (Röntgen current).
Ref: http://bjr.birjournals.org/content/70/836/809.full.pdf
Definitions:
conduction current: motion of charged particles in a conductor
convection current: motion of charged particles in free-space (vacuum)
convection: Convection is the concerted, collective movement of ensembles of molecules within fluids (i.e. liquids, gases) and rheids. Convection of mass cannot take place in solids, since neither bulk current flows nor significant diffusion can take place in solids. Diffusion of heat can take place in solids, but is referred to separately in that case as heat conduction.
If we consider the aether a medium of virtual particles, Dirac's Sea, it seems plausible that moving these virtual charges would produce a "virtual convection current".
QuoteThe annual mankind's need of energy is less than 5 millionth of a billionth of the ROTATIONAL KINETIC energy of the earth.
EX,
You apparently have not done any calculations have you? I have, but I'll agree with you, it does sounds ridiculous at first glance and perhaps worthy of a good laugh, because the rotational kinetic energy of the earth is huge, on the order of 1e27 Joules. However, let's do a simple calculation of energy usage.
Assume an average consumption of 1000 watts per person on the earth, at times a lot higher, at time much lower. If these devices find their way into automobiles, then the usage could skyrocket. However, as bad as that sounds, the energy consumption in a magnetic vortex triggered by a simple TPU could be orders of magnitude larger, as I'll explain later.
Here's the basic rough consumption just so we get a handle on the magnitude of these numbers:
(6 billion people)x(1000 watts)x(365 days x 24 hr x 60 min x 60 sec) = 2e20 Joules
So, every year we would be consuming on the order of 1e20 Joules, ignoring everything else, and so to deplete the rotational energy of the earth it would take around a billion years!
However, what is missed in this assumption is the fact that once a magnetic vortex is established to power a TPU, that same magnetic vortex induces currents in everything it crosses, from the earth's crust to the ionosphere. Since there is a lot of charge in the air, in the soil, and certainly the ionosphere, this same vortex that's powering a tiny little TPU on the surface of the earth could in actuality be delivering a million or billion times more energy unbeknownst to us. The most frightening scenario is a self sustaining vortex, like a hurricane, that feeds itself and grows through dynamics that we yet don't understand. If that were to happen, we could jerk the earth to a standstill in seconds, can you imagine? God have mercy! We could have earthquakes and tsunamis that would obliterate life on the planet in an apocalyptic fashion.
So whether we deplete the earth's rotational energy in one second or in a billion years, it is still very dangerous and very risky undertaking to activate a TPU that taps into the energy of the earth, because WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND ALL THE IMPLICATIONS. A lot is not known and is only approximations at this point. My immediate concern is really with the magnetic field of the earth, if we kill that and cause an instability in it, than we would be losing our atmosphere slowly due to the solar wind, and in time we would go extinct, regardless if we are still rotating or not, just like planet Mars.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.26, 17:45:18
EX,
You apparently have not done any calculations have you? I have, but I'll agree with you, it does sounds ridiculous at first glance and perhaps worthy of a good laugh, because the rotational kinetic energy of the earth is huge, on the order of 1e27 Joules. However, let's do a simple calculation of energy usage.
Assume an average consumption of 1000 watts per person on the earth, at times a lot higher, at time much lower. If these devices find their way into automobiles, then the usage could skyrocket. However, as bad as that sounds, the energy consumption in a magnetic vortex triggered by a simple TPU could be orders of magnitude larger, as I'll explain later.
Here's the basic rough consumption just so we get a handle on the magnitude of these numbers:
(6 billion people)x(1000 watts)x(365 days x 24 hr x 60 min x 60 sec) = 2e20 Joules
So, every year we would be consuming on the order of 1e20 Joules, ignoring everything else, and so to deplete the rotational energy of the earth it would take around a billion years!
However, what is missed in this assumption is the fact that once a magnetic vortex is established to power a TPU, that same magnetic vortex induces currents in everything in crosses from the earth crust to the ionosphere. Since there is a lot of charge in the air, in the soil, and certainly the ionosphere, this same vortex that's powering a tiny little TPU on the surface of the earth could in actuality be delivering a million or billion times more energy unbeknownst to us. The most frightening scenario is a self sustaining vortex, like a hurricane, that feeds itself and grows through dynamics that we yet don't understand. If that were to happen, we could jerk the earth to a standstill in seconds, can you imagine? God have mercy! We could have earthquakes and tsunamis that would obliterate life on the planet in an apocalyptic fashion.
So whether we deplete the earth's rotational energy in one second or in a billion years, it is still very dangerous and very risky undertaking to activate a TPU that taps into the energy of the earth, because WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND ALL THE IMPLICATIONS. A lot is not known and is only approximations at this point. My immediate concern is really with the magnetic field of the earth, if we kill that and cause an instability in it, than we would be losing our atmosphere slowly due to the solar wind, and in time we would go extinct, regardless if we are still rotating or not, just like planet Mars.
EM
I don't know about any of the rest of you but this sounds like disinformation to me. NO ONE knows how the TPU works but we are being warned off of building them because it may destroy the earth??? Did Steve Marks destroy the earth?
If EMdevices knows how to build a real TPU then please tell us, we are all waiting to know. Oh thats right he can't tell us because it will destroy the earth. LOL
Quote from: Room3327 on 2012.04.26, 18:07:05
If EMdevices knows how to build a real TPU then please tell us, we are all waiting to know. Oh thats right he can't tell us because it will destroy the earth. LOL
LOL ;D
Steven already said too much.
EM
;D I thought it was pretty funny, so whats it going to be?
You going to give real information or just the BS?
The two young men in the tpu cutting videos are ~40yrs age now. I wonder what they are doing? If I had seen the TPU at that age my life would be different.
It is very simple:
At the ratio of human to planetary scale we don't think it matters. Especially if stupidity rules. Aside from our frailties the volume of a slower mass moving through a thinner mass at a high rate of speed is an interaction that produces friction, everywhere and at any size. It is only when we choose or identify a component do we fall into a category of thought that excludes the rest of the equation. And this is 'Always'. Unless you can hold a universe in your hand like a puddle of water and cease to wonder at the complexities there will never be an allowance of free thought to embrace an encompassing paradigm of motion of entities.
I wake up on the wrong planet everyday to hordes dividing into groups of pride.
@Room3327
Do you not believe what I said about the TPU and how it operates? Do you not believe Steven about the magnetic vortex, the "turbine" effect, the gyroscopic effect, the killowats he is extracting?
@GK,
very poetic!
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.26, 18:24:03
@Room3327
Do you not believe what I said about the TPU and how it operates? Do you not believe Steven about the magnetic vortex, the "turbine" effect, the gyroscopic effect, the killowats he is extracting?
@GK,
very poetic!
EM
I'm sorry EM I don't believe much of what you are saying, I personally do not believe that any kind of mechanical or physical vibration is used in the operation of the TPU. If you have a working TPU that does utilize that mode, more power to you, but again I see no working TPU's of any kind you certainly have not disclosed any working TPU. As far as I know you have no better idea for a TPU then anybody else in the picture, but you are warning us off even trying to build one based on conjectures on your part. I for one will continue to work on them regardless of what you say!
It stands to reason that if 200w of audio can flex standing waves at the correct vector to shake walls of an ediface and a 6" piece of wire can eject emmissions to cripple cable boxes 2 doors away then I believe [We] can shake the living tar out of anything till it vibrates into a readable form or disassociates into a less complex form. Paraphrase of Keely.
Ok Room3327, I'll come clean, .....
the TPU extracts energy from the Power Lines ! >:-) ;D ;D :D 8)
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.26, 21:48:19
Ok Room3327, I'll come clean, .....
the TPU extracts energy from the Power Lines ! >:-) ;D ;D :D 8)
EM
That sounds like more disinformation to me. ;D
QuoteI personally do not believe that any kind of mechanical or physical vibration is used in the operation of the TPU.
What if it is NMR? Resonate a magnetic field just like on the secondary of a Tesla coil only our coil is a ring instead of a vertical post. The discharges are fed back into the primary. A thumping would be present. Gyroscopically speaking? Maybe it wants to stay static in a static field.
GK,
I believe you are spot on.
Imagine taking a toroidal core, finding its acoustic resonant frequency around its circumference. What frequency cause a full wavelength to be setup around the ring.
Now around it place a winding (transmission line or wave guide) and matching its electrical frequency to the mechanical frequency. This is macroscopic NMR.
Now start a unidirectional wave propagation using directional coupling, so you only have a wave spinning in ONE way.
Once you have established your one way wave, pump it parametrically with a perpendicular control coil (yellow)
See attached drawing. The acoustic and electrical frequencies are matched within the structure. The structure has its permeability switched at 2x fundamental frequency.
A one-way wave of "what"?
A one way wave of acoustic and electrical propagation around the ring structure. If you were to excite a ring circuit (tesla coil built into a toroid) with a single primary coil at 1 point (a single tangent), you will have two wave components which travel down the toroid in two directions, one clockwise, one counter-clockwise. This creates polarity reversals, it is like a tornado that spins two directions at once, no good.
However If the structure is a full wave multiple (whole multiples of full wave resonance fit within the structure) you can excite it at two tangents separated by 1/4 wavelength.
This causes 4 total wave components. The first primary has two counter rotating wave components, and the second primary has two counter rotating wave components. All of the wave components going clockwise will cancel each other out, you have made clockwise rotation null. the two wave components going counter clockwise will add, creating a wave with double amplitude going counter clockwise ONLY.
All other forms of resonance within a ring structure have POLARITY REVERSALS which shows the two counter rotating components. This is more of a soliton wave traveling in one direction ONLY. This applies to acoustic wave guides as well. Therefore if you have a core which has a wave guide around it, and you treat the core as an acoustic wave guide, you can match the two. Now you have an acoustic and electric propagation around a ring guide, in one direction only. The original paper and proof is attached.
here is a patent which capitalizes on this concept, HUGE amounts of power may be stored within such a structure, well beyond a normal resonant tank circuit even of extremely high Q.
Parametric Power Multiplication
http://www.google.com/patents?id=7PGhAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Armagdn
The coil in this post has 2 coil wound axially around the circumference of a single copper coated iron wire(turned out cheap coax LOL)
I injected 2 channels of white noise into the biflar or 2 coils, i place a low ohm resistor at each end of the 1 loop coil and was occasionally getting about 80 watt pulses, bearing in mind i always use low voltage low current to drive my 2 coils.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=272.msg3740#msg3740
Watch the video in the next post to see the results, now what i have been trying to track down is what happens once in a while to cause such large bursts of energy.
Please note i get mechanical crackling noises from the coil while it runs and get tugging on magnets if i place them close
Yep. I have gotten those many times. Usually the more frequent then the USB connection to my controller goes Kaput.
Quote from: Armagdn03 on 2012.04.27, 18:37:29
A one way wave of acoustic and electrical propagation around the ring structure. If you were to excite a ring circuit (tesla coil built into a toroid) with a single primary coil at 1 point (a single tangent), you will have two wave components which travel down the toroid in two directions, one clockwise, one counter-clockwise. This creates polarity reversals, it is like a tornado that spins two directions at once, no good.
However If the structure is a full wave multiple (whole multiples of full wave resonance fit within the structure) you can excite it at two tangents separated by 1/4 wavelength.
This causes 4 total wave components. The first primary has two counter rotating wave components, and the second primary has two counter rotating wave components. All of the wave components going clockwise will cancel each other out, you have made clockwise rotation null. the two wave components going counter clockwise will add, creating a wave with double amplitude going counter clockwise ONLY.
All other forms of resonance within a ring structure have POLARITY REVERSALS which shows the two counter rotating components. This is more of a soliton wave traveling in one direction ONLY. This applies to acoustic wave guides as well. Therefore if you have a core which has a wave guide around it, and you treat the core as an acoustic wave guide, you can match the two. Now you have an acoustic and electric propagation around a ring guide, in one direction only. The original paper and proof is attached.
The wave will not propagate that way. The entire coil responds as a whole, so a single coil does not induce rotation even if formed into a loop. The desired wave is not the same as an EM wave, which does rotate in devices such as a ring resonator.
In the patent posted you are storing power, not creating or converting it.
The wave does propagate in this way, the coil does not respond as a whole because we are at a multiple of the fundamental. This is not theory, I have done this. This technique has been used in microwave engineering for a long time, dates back to the 50s. The patent IS for storing power, I know this, i was simply pointing to an application.
This technique is used all the time in linear (non circular) systems also, the pre-made device is called a directional coupler. This is how you cancel propagation in one direction. This also has applications in optics, one of which is thin film directional canceling used in non reflective optics.
Quote from: Armagdn03 on 2012.04.27, 19:30:09
The wave does propagate in this way, the coil does not respond as a whole because we are at a multiple of the fundamental. This is not theory, I have done this. This technique has been used in microwave engineering for a long time, dates back to the 50s. The patent IS for storing power, I know this, i was simply pointing to an application.
You are referring to an EM wave, hence MW engineering principles and directional couplers apply, and I am referring to an aether wave.
If you can rotate an aether wave that way, then I would like to see it. Both SM and Spherics used coil segments fired sequentially (see open tpu and spherics TPU explanation) The only person that I know of, claiming to rotate aether without sequential coils was Jeff Hazelton. (Dan Anderson claimed to replicated the Hazelton device, but this is unconfirmed.)
EM brought up directional couplers a couple of years ago, ring resonators were posted about four or so years ago. These are fine and dandy, but offer no mechanism for creation or conversion of energy.
In my first post on this thread, I started with how this applied if it were an antenna. Larger field equals greater coupling to environment. This is your mechanism. I stated its limitations, and it may not apply to the original TPU.
I disagree with the assertion that this will not rotate the aether, as this is fundamentally connected to the EM wave. But we can be happy to disagree. I have NEVER seen anybody even try to play with this, just talk about parts of it. Things get particularly interesting when you macroscopically match the acoustic and electric within the same finite space (the core). People I have never seen a single person make a unidirectional wave in a TPU like device on these threads, but I may have missed it, also, never have I seen anybody match the acoustic, EM and permeability characteristics (for parameter variation) within one structure.
Quote from: Armagdn03 on 2012.04.27, 21:26:41
In my first post on this thread, I started with how this applied if it were an antenna. Larger field equals greater coupling to environment. This is your mechanism. I stated its limitations, and it may not apply to the original TPU.
I disagree with the assertion that this will not rotate the aether, as this is fundamentally connected to the EM wave. But we can be happy to disagree. I have NEVER seen anybody even try to play with this, just talk about parts of it. Things get particularly interesting when you macroscopically match the acoustic and electric within the same finite space (the core). People I have never seen a single person make a unidirectional wave in a TPU like device on these threads, but I may have missed it, also, never have I seen anybody match the acoustic, EM and permeability characteristics (for parameter variation) within one structure.
The inventor was often reffering to speed and it is clear that an accelleration mechanisin is at work "turbine effect" .
FWIW it think you are on topic.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.26, 17:45:18
EX,
You apparently have not done any calculations have you?
...
Your question is a sophism suggesting that I have not done calculations. I did, unlike you. I never affirm something without solid arguments, unlike you.
I just made a small mistake, the annual energy need is around 2 thousandth of a billionth, not 5 millionth of a billionth, but the tremendous order of magnitude doesn't change the conclusions about the total absurdity to assert that massively using TPUs would slow and stop the earth!
If you don't know how to calculte, ask it, instead of spreading disinformation! C.C
Rotational kinetic energy of earth is Ek=1/2*I*ω
2 where I is the moment of inertia and ω the angular velocity: ω = 2*π * 1turn/24h = 2*π/(24*3600).
The moment of inertia of a solid sphere is: I=2/5 * M * r
2 where M is the earth mass (around 6 * 10
24 Kg) and r its radius (6,38 * 10
6).
In 2008, total worldwide energy consumption was 474 exajoules = 4,74*10
20 J (wikipedia).
You can now calculate what you should have calculated before posting. I'm not infallible, an error is possible in my calculus, but certainly not the order of magnitude which discards any inconvenient in using an energy device that would take energy from the earth rotation, due to its kinetic energy representing many billions times the annual energy needed on earth.
Even if the extravagant idea supported neither by facts nor logic that the TPU, a not confirmed OU device, would use energy from the earth rotation, a more astonishing thing is the need to emphasize by red and capital letters a real bullshit as "TPU taps into the ROTATIONAL KINETIC energy of the earth, with a complex interaction via the magnetic field of the earth, and this is VERY VERY DANGEROUS TO THE EXISTANCE OF MANKIND ON THIS PLANET" or "you would be in the DARK for 365 days, freezing your ass off" .
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This is beyond hair-splitting.
It is molecular disintegration :D
:D ;D
This reminds me of the time a huge amount of money was spent to study a means to prevent simultaneous flushing of toilets throughout New York city. Someone was worried that such an act would cause damage to the water supply system.
I have an idea!
Let us pick an exact time to jump to the East! Provided we have the cooperation of the whole Human Race, we could stop the Earth!
Wadda ya think, Ex? Maybe you could check the theory on that dusty chalkboard of yours?
Never mind. It was just a fun idea that should be taken as such by anyone with an IQ over 60.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.04.28, 13:28:26
:D ;D
This reminds me of the time a huge amount of money was spent to study a means to prevent simultaneous flushing of toilets throughout New York city. Someone was worried that such an act would cause damage to the water supply system.
I have an idea!
Let us pick an exact time to jump to the East! Provided we have the cooperation of the whole Human Race, we could stop the Earth!
Wadda ya think, Ex? Maybe you could check the theory on that dusty chalkboard of yours?
Never mind. It was just a fun idea that should be taken as such by anyone with an IQ over 60.
You think it's crazy huh? It is crazy. I saw activists trying to get everyone to turn off their light for a couple of hour on certain day. Such an act would save millions of dollars... Or if everyone on earth jump at the same time, a massive earthquake would produced. A joke was that if everyone in China urine at the same time, it's enough to flood a small country. lol Don't underestimate the power of macro. :D
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.04.28, 13:44:30
lol Don't underestimate the power of macro. :D
Yes :)
I never do.
In fact, I've replace more than one person with a bash script. ^-^
Armgdon03, don't tell them too much or the'll build one and ruin my "day". lol
Seriously, that's the mechanism, one way traveling electromagnetic and acoustic waves around the circumference of the TPU, with the proper phase.
EM
EX, careful what you wish for. It will be a cold day in Italy when the earth stands still!
Your username, EXNIHILOEST, is a Latin phrase, EX NIHILO EST, which means: OUT of NOTHING IS, which refers to the act of creation by God, in the beginning. So, do you believe in the creation of energy, is that the hope that has brought you to these forums? Do you endorse messing with the earth, God's creation?
EM
PS. For those that have not read some of the letters from Steven, here's a paragraph where he addresses the energy from the earth. Of course, his numbers are off, and the earth "does not generate" energy per se, but has the energy which can be disippated.
Here's what he said:
Dear Lindsay,
...
My device is compared to batteries in order to give an idea of the power
available and also to show how impossible it is to assume that I may have
hidden batteries inside the unit to make the power.
You would be surprised how many idiots thought that batteries could be
inside making all that electric power!
It is very possible to generate electric power from the earth's magnetic
field.
Think about the fact that in just one revolution, the Earth generates
enough electric power to supply North America with all it needs for over
100 years!
All we have to do is tap into that energy and all our energy wishes come
true.
Notice the generation mechanism: It is the magnetic field primarily, but he understands that ultimately the energy comes from the earth's rotation. Notice that he allows for only 100 years, then what? "all our wishes come true" ? yeah right, my wish is not to disturb the earth, we must take these concepts very seriously. We have a tendency to plunder natural resources and our civilization just expands and requires more and more energy, when is it going to stop? when are we going to learn that we need to do everything in a renewable way. Taking energy from the earth's dynamo, that powers and generates our precious magnetic field, is not a renewable energy strategy.
Here's another quote, speaking about Tesla:
He found that the measurement of the earth's magnetic field was fairly
straightforward.
You have a device, which measures a very small magnetic force which
comes from the generation of magnetic waves as the big iron ball we call
the earth rotates.
If you look at a scientific display of the earth you see that it resembles a
big power generator.
It has poles, a magnetic field, rotation, everything.
Now you know that anytime you have a magnetic field moving past a
wire you have electron flow in that wire or more precisely on the surface.
So the earth is generating the most unbelievably huge amount of power
all the time and we can't tap into it?
I don't believe it!
Neither did Nicola Tesla.
I'm not sure if I should show you these calculations, but they won't help you design anything, but they should convince you that SM meant what he meant, about the rotating magnetic field, or the "turbine" effect as he called it. He had this to say to Norbert:
YES THERE IS A ROTATING FEILD WHICH CAUSES ELECTRONS TO
FLOW IN COPER WIRE AND BE USED TO PROVIDE USEFULL WORK
FORCE. THERE ARE MANY WIRES PERPINDICULAR TO THE MAIN
COLECTOR. THIS IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE DEVICE.
We know from the videos that his frequency of operation was somewhere between 5.5 kHz and 6 kHz, dependent on the design. With a simple 2-pole design, the angular velocity of the field would be:
w = 2 * pi * 6000 = 37700 rad/s
The velocity of the rotating field depends on the radius of the TPU, and for a 10 cm diameter TPU, one of the small ones, we would have a velocity of:
V = w * R = 37700 rad/s * 0.05 m = 1885 m/s
That is a high velocity, and if you remember SM talked about moving a weak magnetic field across wires to produce a lot of power. So let's calculate how weak this magnetic field really is. Let's assume the magnetic field cuts across an effective length of wire of about 20 cm, just to approximate, and ask the question: how strong would the magnetic field have to be to induce 100 volts? we'll assume the magnetic field cuts at 90 degrees to simplify the calculations (sorry WW, I know how much you love the sin(theta) factor) LOL
Volts = speed * B * length, or
B = volts / (speed * length) = (100 volts) / (1885 m/s * 0.2 m) = 0.265 T
This magnetic field is obviously not the magnetic field of the earth, which is much weaker, so it is the magnetic field generated by the TPU itself! However, the magnetic field of the earth does contribute to the vortex, since the magnetic field generated by the TPU can not have an over-unity behavior. We can also take this a step further, and calculate the amount of current required for a particular TPU size to generate this magnetic field, and we realize that the numbers mentioned by Steven during the demonstration are accurate (a few amps) One of the most insightful things he said is the following:
So, it aint batteries and it aint radio waves, but it is electron flow
of a high order creating a large magnetic field. Or vice versa? Ha,
Ha!!!
His "or vice versa" comment is dynamite!
EM
..useless dribble removed.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.04.29, 12:34:49
..useless dribble removed.
Sorry to have already replied. I'm not sure it was useless, the understanding of the question of the method is helping to share a proper working referential. I spent time, so I keep my post. ;)
(But I can remove on request your previous reply from the quotes, ww).
The ants in an ant farm have no concept of the other side of the glass.
But within their confines have built mighty works of their own understanding.
A toroidal winding with dc will create a flux field in one direction which will cause motional drag. A pmh like device. Breaking the circuit creates a discharge.
Each ant is not far from each of our neurones, individually almost unconscious. A possible question is whether the ant farm has a conscious like a brain. This is very disputable. Their collective work doesn't come from a global understanding or intent but from invidual respons to external stimuli that gives a global result.
Experiments were made with simple mechanical robots obeying basic rules. It was toy cars able to push cubes randomly scattered on a limited area. Each time one car encounters a cube, it was programmed to push it one time forward and one left. After some time during which cars were left at random on their area, one observes that all cubes are well stored in a corner of the area.
Is there a conscious saying them to put all cubes away, or an understanding of the work? There is not. This proves that an ensemble of individual basic actions can lead to an apparent concerted goal. The man has a propension to give systematically sense to anything when he sees some regularities. This is an error of reasoning. For the same reason, the building of our universe doesn't imply an intelligent designer.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.04.29, 14:27:16
Sorry to have already replied. I'm not sure it was useless, the understanding of the question of the method is helping to share a proper working referential. I spent time, so I keep my post. ;)
(But I can remove on request your previous reply from the quotes, ww).
No need.
Your logic and reasons are sound.
My point was that ALL is relative. Zero is a place holder and commonly a reference point, that is all. It is defined well in math only by 'nothing' but even then nothing can be none zero.
This from GK applies well:
"The ants in an ant farm have no concept of the other side of the glass.
But within their confines have built mighty works of their own understanding."
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.29, 07:38:04
This magnetic field is obviously not the magnetic field of the earth, which is much weaker, so it is the magnetic field generated by the TPU itself! However, the magnetic field of the earth does contribute to the vortex, since the magnetic field generated by the TPU can not have an over-unity behavior.
Sure it can. If our model is incomplete, then the missing part can appear as OU.
G,
creating a rotating magnetic field and than using it to generate current, is like collapsing a motor and generator into the same unit with the same windings. It is not OU. Many people have tried these concepts, and they don't work in the absence of external "influences"
However, when deformation of the winding is taken into account, and there is proper synchronicity, an "overunity" operation is manifested, but the reason for it is ultimately the fact that we are moving through the earth's magnetic field, and we are extracting energy from it.
EM
PS. Will a TPU still work on a spacecraft sent out into interplanetary space, far removed from any influence?
I am sure the earth's magnetic field is not required, that the rotation of the earth is not in fear of being slowed or otherwise altered, and that these devices work just fine off-planet. Like the many discoveries before it, the operating principle of the TPU will eventually usher in a new era.
G, What about the upside down behavior, or the Coriolis effect? How do we explain that? Or his coments to that effect? I have no doubts it will usher in a new era, but are we positive we want to be a part of it?
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.04.29, 23:51:53
G, What about the upside down behavior, or the Coriolis effect? How do we explain that? Or his coments to that effect? I have no doubts it will usher in a new era, but are we positive we want to be a part of it?
EM
Look up the "Aspden Effect" - explained by the ambient aether having rotation.
EDIT:
http://www.aetherscience.org/www-energyscience-org-uk/le/Le30/le30.html
QuoteThe experimental evidence is that there is something spinning of an ethereal nature coextensive with the machine rotor. That 'something' has an effective mass density 20 times that of the rotor, but it is something that can spin independently and take several minutes to decay, whereas the motor comes to rest in a few seconds.
When you try to explain the flipping it over turns it off effect, remember that the direction of compass rotation (at start-up) is opposite in the southern hemisphere. I've never heard of an antenna that was hemisphere-specific, but that may be possible.
Yes, positively part of the new era.
Talking of compasses, in SM's text he says to mannix about seeing a compass spinning in a video, did i miss this one? is it available.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.04.30, 19:15:08
Talking of compasses, in SM's text he says to mannix about seeing a compass spinning in a video, did i miss this one? is it available.
I've never been able to find it.
Only Manix has that tape, and I have not seen it either.
However, Steven Mark's description of how the compass behaves, is tremendously important and sufficient to understand the construction of the TPU.
You see, if the TPU was designed like a regular AC 2-phase induction motor, to create a rotating magnetic field, the compass would start up rotating instantly when the frequencies are injected, and especially since the compass does not have a high rotational inertia it would accelerate almost instantly. However, that's not what happens according to SM. It gradualy increases in speed then stops. When the TPU is shut off, then the compass begins to move again but in the opposite direction and then also comes to a stop. These behaviors conclusively rule out a winding configuration similar to Tesla's AC induction motor! So anybody who advocates that is misleading folk, wheather intentionaly or unintentionaly.
EM
That missing video leaves even more questions unanswered.
Does he shut the TPU off by flipping it? If so, then being wound similar to a motor may not be ruled out.
Exactly what does the compass do when running speed is reached? Does it just stop or does it stop because it is trying to point in a vertical direction? Even if the rotation speed was too fast for the compass it would continue to turn, unless there was a strong vertical magnetic OR electric field generated at running speed.
I have no doubts it is not wired like a motor. At least, not like a single or conventional motor.
.
the quote:
QuoteBy the way, have you seen the video of the compass turning violently in the center of the
unit while in operation? Notice that when I first turn the unit on that the compass starts to
spin very slowly. it speeds up faster and faster until it just stops. When it stops the unit is
always operating at about it's design maximum. We never found out why any of this
occurred. It tended to reinforce what I observed as the turbine effect. When the unit is shut
off the compass starts to revolve again and slowly comes to a rest.
By the way, the fire discharge everyone sees in the video is after the output of the device
is switched through a large high value resister! I hope that will wake up a few of you to the
danger potentials.
thanks G, I was under the impression the compass rotated the other way when the shut off occured, but that's not correct.
Do you remember who it was that demonstrated this phenomena over a pancake coil?
nope, never seen the pancake coil / compass exhibition
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.05.01, 00:11:54
thanks G, I was under the impression the compass rotated the other way when the shut off occured, but that's not correct.
Do you remember who it was that demonstrated this phenomena over a pancake coil?
Hmmm?
Never heard about that.
I know a compass will rotate above/below (with reversal from above to below) a pancake coil if it is a single layer (1 layer thick along the central axis ). It won't rotate if centered on the coil but only over the windings. The coil drive must be AC to cause rotation, in that case. This is no different than a compass along the side of a solenoid coil fed with AC.
QuoteThe bifilar is what SM was using. Because he didn't have the equivalent of a SEP coil powered from
the start, the initial output from his output coil was small. He then fed part of this back into the TPU
(VERY BAD IDEA) and had it wrapped around every input coil. This puts a SEP coil around the
bifilar. The combined effect of the bifilar and SEP around the coils gives the same effect as you'll get
from applying the waveform in the diagrams to one input coil. He also had the equivalent of a main
SEP coil but with only 4 turns around the toroid. He connected an input coil then wrapped right round
past the input coil and connected to the next input.
Popcorn time again! :D I love when EM, and G talk about the TPU technology, as all what they say are proven facts. Like the imaginary Spheric device, which should work,because as G said: "My point is that the information has not been disproven" . Oh mighty.... C.C
Just to add some more craziness to the topic, maybe some of you remember, I posted a video around two years ago from a setup, where the rotation of the plasma arc was orientation dependent. It took lot of time for me, to perfect the setup to create the necessary condition, and understand more about the cause. I'm still far from the full understanding, maybe I missing the whole point, because of my lack of education, but I can produce the effect anytime. At low speed, the rotating plasma arc stop, when flipped. It stops, when the angle to the horizontal is the same as the true north angle to the horizontal. Putting the arcing tube to a magnetic field cage, to eliminate the earth magnetic field influence, make no change. Flipping the whole setup, still influence the rotation.
There is also an inertial effect, which take place when the rotation speed is higher, and the whole setup was running for several minute and then flipped. I let it run for several hours in the past, have a lot of footage, and I noticed a rotation speed changing in time. I didn't found any pattern yet, or explanation. Who knows, what this extremely sensitive antenna picking up. :D
Which direction does it rotate?
Chef,
that was a great video, I remember. Sometimes making it work without knowing why it works, is all that matters! When you've spent 6 years thinking about the TPU, everyday, you can understand why we're so polarized on this subject. Let the show begin! :)
EM
.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.05.01, 04:51:02
Which direction does it rotate?
When the rotation is slow, looking down on the arc channel it rotate counter clock wise, when flipped the rotation stop. When the rotation speed is right, the setup is so sensitive, it sense one degree of movement over the flipping arc. Very interesting...
Quote from: Chef on 2012.05.01, 20:42:34
When the rotation is slow, looking down on the arc channel it rotate counter clock wise, when flipped the rotation stop. When the rotation speed is right, the setup is so sensitive, it sense one degree of movement over the flipping arc. Very interesting...
Interesting. Several people are familiar with the principle of arcs rotating in a magnetic field and this effect is used in rotating arc switches to limit erosion of the contacts. The rotation is determined by the magnetic field direction. The rotation does not stopped when flipped. It is also interesting that your arc stops rotating when flipped, and does not reverse direction.
When you flip the tube, are placing it in the same area as it was in when rotating, of moving it when flipping it?EDIT:
Just some thoughts, but the electric field aligns the particles in the arc in the vertical direction, so, let's guess that their spin axis is vertical. Venturing a guess at a mechanism for the arc rotating, I suggest that in this orientation, the spin of the particles in the arc is coincident with the spin of space around it. Thus, when you flip, the tube, the spins are not coincident and no rotation occurs. Accordingly, this application of an electric field does not flip spins in space, but there is a subtle interaction between the spins of the two when coincident.
A magnetic field imparts it's own influence and aligns spins accordingly and when the magnet is flipped, the spins are also flipped.
If correct, this simple tube with an arc allows one to detect the orientation of the spin of the constituents of space (aether, ether, Dirac Sea, medium, virtual particles, etc.), and that is something everyone should be interested in.
A sure test of this hypothesis is that the arc will rotate the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere.
Quote from: Chef on 2012.05.01, 20:42:34
When the rotation is slow, looking down on the arc channel it rotate counter clock wise, when flipped the rotation stop. When the rotation speed is right, the setup is so sensitive, it sense one degree of movement over the flipping arc. Very interesting...
interesting PHASITRON
http://www.tubecollection.de/ura/phasitron.htm
http://www.w9gr.com/phasitron.html
http://www.w9gr.com/adler.pdf
....
http://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/vm_tubes_magnetrons_and_similar_devices.html
test with magnet spark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA8ejIuZYwA&feature=related
God is off topic on a TPU thread, i have removed most of it, if you have to either join a religious forum or start another thread O0
Wings, that PHASITRON stuff looks interesting! O0
EX,I'm glad your jumping in the quantum world of the tpu,first rule
the inventor of the tpu can't lie,second rule, the inventor of the tpu wouldn't lie
third rule ,he wants you to make a tpu to power your house.There are no plans to make any tpu,
only a hope that the inventor doesn't lie.These rules are known and believed
by the majority of the members here,critical thinking has no place in the world of the tpu
only endless speculation without real facts just remember that.A person that knew the inventor(SM),Jack Durban, said of him
if he wanted you to know how to build a tpu he would simply tell you how to build it.
Jack Durban also said
of SM,"he Lie's even when he doesn't need to",in otherwords hes a pathological liar.
Does the tpu work unknown ,however theres a good chance it does,two of the devices can be duplicated
exactly so it is very possible there fake,the others can not be duplicated in any way,using
parts available from radio shack ,in the time period of the video's 1996 to 1998.The inventor of the tpu is a spin master ,can fool anyone,and does.
Thanks for the information, Cheap.
"If he wanted you to know how to build a tpu he would simply tell you how to build it": this is the most sensible sentence that I have read about the tpu. ;).
I see in your method of thinking applied to the tpu, something known as "zetetic", a skeptical inquiry which is an efficient way to dismiss lies and falseness without having all the details about their object.
If an astonishing device works, according to a known schematics, then it is extremely rapidly spread and duplicated all over the world. A typical example was the lifter.
If an extraordinary claim is not documented, or if there is not many successful duplications within one or two years after the first documented announce, we can consider it is a fake or a mistake. Applying such simple rules now confirmed by the absence of any counter examples, avoids us to waste our time with devices from liars, morons, or con men.
Ah! Clearly members of the (I)nterrupt (D)issuade (I)nsult (O)bject & (T)aunt league.
Like mosquitoes homing in on the thermal signature of a warm body......
We know certain subjects are taboo.
EM compression waves, vacuum tube experiments, magnetic vortexes, aether, TPU, etc.
We apologize and promise to not do it again. C.C
Now, please go away. :D
When spewing logic it is best to avoid illogical acts, like joining a discussion about something that may be far beneath or above you.
All efforts to replicate the TPU, or discover an alternate means to generate electricity are plagued by human traits, such as greed, pride, and fear.
It's easy to say SM is a liar and some of the TPU's are fake when your own best efforts failed, while never admitting that you actually "failed".
We can efficiently eliminate lies and falesness, without all the details, only if we consider the details unimportant. In reality, all you can eliminate is what you actually know. For example: you can dismiss the existence of God because you can not see a physical representation, but you cannot admit that you really don't know if there is a God, or other intelligent beings in our vast universe, or other means to generate electricity.
Here is a thought experiment for anyone interested in the TPU.
Everyone has heard the claims of Tesla's Radiant Electricity charging capacitors that are not connected to anything. Eric Dollard showed this in one of his videos with Borderlands Research. He held it near a bulb that he said was being lit by RE, and claimed that the capacitor was charged and gave a spark when shorted. The video is inconclusive, in my opinion, but I cannot state his claim is false.
Spherics claimed that you can connect two short coils to a capacitor (one to each leg, open circuit - like antennas) and the caapcitor will charge when held near a CCU coil (described in his information).
My question is, what physics is requried for these claims to be possible? i.e. What has to occur between the source and the capacitor for the capacitor to be charged in this way?
Disreguard accepted models and rules that say this doesn't even work at all. That is not the point. The point is that some aspect of our accepted model has to change in order for this to be possible. If it can be done, then our currently accepted model is incomplete.
Consider the capacitor is already charged to 50v and then the source (Tesla coil or CCU) is turned on. Then voltage measured across the capacitor increases steadily using a high-impedance meter.
G did you know Tesla's radiant collector collects both positive and negative charges at the same time with respect to earth, so it is totally plausible to connect 2 diodes each connected in opposite direction to the plate collector, each diode going to a cap and the other caps legs to ground each capacitor will charge at the same time but one will be positive and the other negative. O0
I have not built this or tried it, so i guess it's possible they were mistaken and charging from the mains power field around the collector, it's one of those things that needs verifying.
So with the device you show i am to presume each coil is coiled in a different direction(CW/CCW) this is the only way a potential could build in your device, and this should be telling us something about the nature of the thing that charges it, i would think it's circularly polarised or something like this, just like what happened to SM's imploding TV and the nails around it.
Maybe the TPU does not tap into the Aether but maybe it creates it C.C or concentrates it/focuses it
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.05.03, 18:46:49
So with the device you show i am to presume each coil is coiled in a different direction(CW/CCW) this is the only way a potential could build in your device, and this should be telling us something about the nature of the thing that charges it, i would think it's circularly polarised or something like this, just like what happened to SM's imploding TV and the nails around it.
Maybe the TPU does not tap into the Aether but maybe it creates it C.C or concentrates it/focuses it
The coils are about 8 to 10 feet long and wound same direction, loosely.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.05.03, 18:46:49
So with the device you show i am to presume each coil is coiled in a different direction(CW/CCW) this is the only way a potential could build in your device, and this should be telling us something about the nature of the thing that charges it, i would think it's circularly polarised or something like this, just like what happened to SM's imploding TV and the nails around it.
Maybe the TPU does not tap into the Aether but maybe it creates it C.C or concentrates it/focuses it
I've always wondered if a charge and the field around it are truly inseparable or independent.
When considering the "how to charge this capacitor" question, keep in mind that connecting one side to a source of potential will not charge the capacitor. So, I think you are correct that the source must suffice for completing the circuit, i.e. that both positive and negative are there in some form.
Quotekeep in mind that connecting one side to a source of potential will not charge the capacitor
AC potential i agree and DC potential i agree, but pulsed DC i disagree, which brings us back to a radiant pulse/emp it's a one directional impulse that has has a rise time and fall time which is relatively steep, whats the difference between shooting an alternating pulse at one plate of a capacitor than shooting pulsed DC at one plate of a capacitor, well it has to be harmonic content ???
yet just this harmonic content can itself allow longitudinal coupling, if you control the harmonic content of the rise and separately control the harmonic content of the fall, it might be possible to push longitudinally whitout the accompanying pull.
I'll post my disagreement with harmonic content as being an important ingredient.
IMO, it is momentum. A bad word relating to electricity, I know. For these matters, I think it is good to think in terms of fluid dynamics.
The coil handedness doesn't matter because the coil isn't the coupling to the media. It is the end of the wire. The coil and cap store the energy.
No problem there WW.
So lets try and understand what we have here.
Here's a sketch of 1 cycle of AC mains with some hash superimposed, just as we have all seen at various times.
We have a (UK)50Hz sine and random induced hash which can go positive or negative at any point on the sine cycle.
Now we know we can use the power of the sinewave by using a rectifier, but the rectifier does not see any net power gain induced by the hash.
So we have hash which we have no way of obtaining any power.
If the hash is induced because of radiant events and i think we can agree that radiant energy is longitudinal in nature and we know the sinewave is a transverse wave then how can a longitudinal event tag onto a transverse wave and also how can we get access to the power of the hash.
We know a pulse is rich in harmonic content, does the hash add to the sinewaves harmonic content and can we access this energy through this harmonic noise.?
We know that we should kill all hash at source before it propergates using caps, SM mentions 0.05uF, this is because once it propergates it's not so easy to kill unless we start using ferrite to soak up bursts of magnetic energy from it's wake or large surface area ground planes.
ww and petare .......sounds about right from here
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.05.04, 11:40:23
IMO, it is momentum.
Does the Poynting Vector include all of the energy? It's the cross product of the electric and magnetic fields, but is that all there is? Is the scaling factor just left out, or thought to be included in E and H? So, how are E and H determined?
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.05.06, 16:08:26
Does the Poynting Vector include all of the energy? It's the cross product of the electric and magnetic fields, but is that all there is? Is the scaling factor just left out, or thought to be included in E and H? So, how are E and H determined?
I did a little reading up on the Poynting Vector and it assumes vacuum permittivity and permeability to be constants. What if they are not?
Well in that case G maybe we should concentrate on measuring the vacuum permittivity in a shielded box that is placed near a hash generating device, i am pretty sure my microphone noises also point to this changing.
So what if a radiant event ripples permeability of vacuum and a solid material, i mean in an instant a wire suddenly exhibits a 100 fold permeability change, then what would we see, would it be a sudden appearance of a hash spike, which as the permeability returns back to normal would disappear just as fast as it came, no new energy was created or destroyed or dissipated.
The next question would be why are permeability and permittivity both changed, what links this will point to the true origin of the effect that causes it, which i would imagine would be what we term Aether.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.05.06, 21:00:33
Well in that case G maybe we should concentrate on measuring the vacuum permittivity in a shielded box that is placed near a hash generating device, i am pretty sure my microphone noises also point to this changing.
So what if a radiant event ripples permeability of vacuum and a solid material, i mean in an instant a wire suddenly exhibits a 100 fold permeability change, then what would we see, would it be a sudden appearance of a hash spike, which as the permeability returns back to normal would disappear just as fast as it came, no new energy was created or destroyed or dissipated.
The next question would be why are permeability and permittivity both changed, what links this will point to the true origin of the effect that causes it, which i would imagine would be what we term Aether.
Yes, a single kick is not usually of much use. I don't know that they are both changed.
Permeability and permativity do chage anomously in certain places, like the Oregon Vortex.
QuoteIn a good conductor, skin depth varies as the inverse square root of the conductivity. This means that better conductors have a reduced skin depth. The overall resistance of the better conductor remains lower even with the reduced skin depth. However this means that there is less reduction in A.C. resistance when substituting a metal of higher conductivity, compared to the reduction of D.C. resistance, when its diameter is larger than the skin depth for that frequency.
Skin depth also varies as the inverse square root of the permeability of the conductor. In the case of iron, its conductivity is about 1/7 that of copper. However being ferromagnetic its permeability is about 10,000 times greater. This reduces the skin depth for iron to about 1/38 that of copper, about 220 micrometres at 60 Hz. Iron wire is thus useless for A.C. power lines. The skin effect also reduces the effective thickness of lamination's in power transformers, increasing their losses.
Iron rods work well for direct-current (DC) welding but it is impossible to use them at frequencies much higher than 60 Hz. At a few kilohertz, the welding rod will glow red hot as current flows through the greatly increased A.C. resistance resulting from the skin effect, with relatively little power remaining for the arc itself. Only non-magnetic rods can be used for high-frequency welding.
Ah Ah
SM talked about the problem of eddy currents in his device and how that limited their running time, we also seem to have the introduction of iron wire but not sure where the iron wire in a TPU came from, i don't think it was mentioned by Sm, but i could be wrong.
If we have 2 different types of current, AC and DC in a single conductor, the DC will carry in the whole area of the wire, but AC on the skin, that would mean there would be a gradient of DC, from the center which is not mingling with the AC all the way to the skin where DC and AC current would exist.
QuoteSkin depth is due to the circulating eddy currents (arising from a changing H field) cancelling the current flow in the center of a conductor and reinforcing it in the skin.
but then we have this quote cancelling the current flow in the center of a conductor, so i wonder what would happen to the DC in the center of the conductor under the condition of AC and DC both flowing at the same time.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.05.07, 09:54:12
Permeability and permativity do chage anomously in certain places, like the Oregon Vortex.
Details?
Everyone is familiar with "displacement current", exaplained by Maxwell as the storing of energy, via an electric field, by the physical stretching of the medium, be it aether, vacuum, or another dielectric.
I guess that there is a threshold where this strecthing becomes "separation" and the separate entities can move over a distance rather than just move slightly apart and back together.
The big question is what does this mean?
(I read a long time ago, regarding virtual particles, that the particles become "real" when separated. Seems plausible. This would account for the "hits" you get on an RE detector and the resulting accumulation of charge (like beta particles but much lower energy), as well as switch triggering in other detectors.)
QuoteAh Ah
SM talked about the problem of eddy currents in his device and how that limited their running time, we also seem to have the introduction of iron wire but not sure where the iron wire in a TPU came from, i don't think it was mentioned by Sm, but i could be wrong.
I had copied one of Tesla's patents with the GK4 giving it an iron wire core. SM mentioned using a snippet of iron wire as a delay for the compwave generation. Things could have built up from there.
Also,
Using a DC charged air core toroid winding sends the flux in the center as a ferrite ring would do.
I came across a post recently that mentioned if you hook up a coil of iron wire to a battery that the flow will be the exact opposite direction of a same coil wire of copper. Not sure if that's anything new but may be of some interest with the TPU.
I watched the UEC video last night, and here's a quote from Steven:
QuoteThese devices are inherently high voltage devices, and they produce DC with a slight frequency of around 5000 Hz ...
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.05.07, 18:56:28
I watched the UEC video last night, and here's a quote from Steven:
SM also stated that the US NAvy had a similar device in the 1950's. Curiously, nuclear batteries were developed in the 1950's, patents assigned to the US Navy. Nuclear batteries are also inherently hv devices.
EDIT:
filed in 1952, patented in 1958:
http://www.google.com/patents/US2847585?printsec=abstract&dq=beta+particles+battery+navy#v=onepage&q&f=false
modern version:
http://www.google.com/patents/US6911711?printsec=abstract&dq=beta+particles+battery+navy#v=onepage&q&f=false
Moving forward...
A charged particle, virtual or real, creates a magnetic field when it moves. So, if my coils pull particle pairs apart or just fire them outward (or both), I get a strong magnetic field from the moving particles. However, this is a radial current. What am I supposed to do with that?
In the two devices detailed by spherics, this radial current has a circular magnet field that is perpendicular to the collector coil. All you have to do is rotate it to simulate a rotating magnet of sorts.
In the TPU, your coil section produces the radial current pulse, and the collector can be toroidal. SM spoke of circular collector wires, but spherics said they were vertical. Being a radial current, it is on all directions, so some of it would be aligned with a circular collector as well.
I agree that it does not make a lot of sense at first, but it get's more clear when you think about it.
So, anyone got a HV pulser that can be triggered by a frequency source so you can sweep through a range to find a good pulse rates?
Hi guys,
Can I interject on something you guys had talked about a page back or so about the TPU using the Earth magnetic field.
What is required is to look at this with some "regressive" logic.
So, the Earth's magnetic field is generated by the Earth with one polarity on the northern hemisphere and another polarity on the southern hemisphere as we usually have seen on most all "official" depictions up till now. So if this depiction of the Earth field is correct, then you and I can only be in one field at a time. So if you are standing anywhere on Earth, you will never be in both fields simultaneously. So how can you then say you are drawing from the Earth magnetic field. Seems to be a checkmate situation from the start.
But now, let's say you are in the north ambient polarity. This would infer that all conductors when not energized should already have an ambient bias to the north field. Just as if you approach the north side of a magnet to the wire or like why your compass points north or south.
So let's say you wind one coil of 100 turns and you wind a second coil of 100 turns over it. You have an inner and outer coil set-up for which you let the outer coil only be impressed by the Earth's north field polarity. Let's make a hard right for a second now.
In a regular one layer coil that is energized, you will have two distinct polarities, one per each end. Now if you wanted that physical length of one coil to only have one polarity, what you do is double the coil length so the half length is now the full length of the physical one polarity you wanted. The second half that you added is there simply to permit the first half to be completely one polarity. So let's go back to where we were.
OK, so you have an outer coil that is biased by the Earth field let's say north and this coil is also your output coil that is rectified so energy cannot return back to the coil once it have exited it. That outer output coil is 100 turns just like the inner coil and it is all north polarity. Now you energize the center 100 turn coil but you find there is a major problem. That inner coil is producing two polarities, one south polarity that is useful to influence the outer coil in the opposite way, but half of the inner coil is also the north polarity that is totally useless. So what do you do? Well simple. You add another 100 turns to the inner coil that is just protruding out from one end of both coils. So you now have one inner coil of 200 turns and one outer coil of 100 turns that is wound on the inner coil from turns 1 to 100. That means what?
Well, now you pulse the inner coil in the direction that produces a south field in the half of the now 200 turn coil on the side that is completely under the outer coil that is north polarized by the Earth's magnetic field. This for me would be the only way to capitalize on the Earths field.
Now to finalize this idea, the coils can be coils, or loops, or a coil and a loop or whatever you want. If you extend this basic principle throughout all the SM TPU's I think there may be a good relation that binds them together as we have tried for so long to find what principle holds all of the units together, regardless of the topology of the device. Hehehe.
But what is the advantage of such a scheme. Well you have half the battle already won. You do not need to produce a north field that works against the already existing north field. This makes like the Earth's magnetic field becomes a monopolar power supply. All you need is to provide the complimentary opposite polarity. I don't know the Lenz Laws enough to state the ramifications but if only a positive is impressed to an output coil where the negative if the same coil is not used at all, then what kind of Law applies would remain to be seen.
This could be testing in small scale very easily to see the effect and to better understand and find the right mix, the right pulse frequency to maximize the Earth field presence, etc.
Sorry for budding in and hope this is not too off topic.
wattsup
PS: When SM said wind 1 coil, then another over it, then another, making three coil layers, the above idea would mean the 1st and 2nd layers are one coil with the 2nd layer being the south side of the two layers being pulsed. The outer coil would be both the Earth biased coil and output coil.
@wattsup, interesting thoughts.
@ Grumpy, in my em book, the magnetic field of a moving point charge has way more terms, the equation you posted must be some simplistic formula that has the "free energy" terms stripped from it! :o
@All,
Ok, this is serious, (EMDevices is now putting on his "serious hat". :D )
DC creation mechanism
In one of the longer videos (the UEC one I believe) SM is starting to talk about his little TPU that is powering a TV on the table, for about 20 minutes or so. The audio is blanked out to protect the infomation, but what he says, or tries to say, is quite clear. He basicaly says that he is using a magnetic field to create curent in a wire, plain and simple, and this has been known for hundreds of years, so he is talking about the generator principle of moving a wire through a magnetic field, or vice versa, but he says this principle is applied in a new way in the TPU.
Would you like to know what the "new way" is? I'll tell you.
Instead of building a generator with a moving rotor inside a stator, the TPU that SM has built is very similar to a generator and still has all the parts and functions of a conventional generator:
1) The "rotor" is the collector wire, that vibrates in a circular way and elastic or acoustic waves travel one way around the perifery of the collector, constantly cutting a magnetic field that also ROTATES WITH IT. This ensures a constant POLARITY of DC current.
2) The "stator" is the control winding that produces the rotating magnetic field that the collector cuts through, and because it rotates in synchronism with the collector deformation or elastic waves, the generated voltage and current inside the TPU is a direct current and voltage. the synchronicity ensures a direct current, it basicaly removes the need for brushes and contacts in a DC generator.
You see how simple that is, the DC current production should not be a mystery anymore. Like I said before, a rotating magnetic wave in synchronism with an acoustic or elastic wave deforming the collector.
In his own way, Steven is telling us this when he talks about the "kick" and how the fillament in the tubes would move becasue of the high inrush current through them and because there is a magnetic field present around, that of the earth he says. So we need movement and a magnetic field!
The turbine effect
I already mentioned the rotation of the magnetic field, and this is the "turbine" effect, because according to Steven it takes a while for the "turbine to spin up, or down" so that's why he called it the "turbine" in the first place. He also talks about the compass rotating, etc..and of course, about the magnetic field rotating and inducing current in the collector. He is very certain of it.
So, let me ask you guys a question:
Do I have a TPU if I build a rotating magnetic field (RMF) device? The answer is not yet. The RMF is a needed component but there is more to it, namely the "rotor" or collector, which needs to start vibrating. Vibration is the other "key" ingredient.
How do we build a RFM? Let me say that SM did NOT wind his TPU to mimic a typical 2-phase induction motor stator, because he say's that "he observed" the turbine effect, he talks about it as if it's something he did not expect. Moreover, he talks about injecting a number of frequencies, and their result happens to be a rotating magnetic field. However, the OTPU is sure making me doubt this theory. It seems very plain that the device has 4 quadrants and I can't escape the impression that he is doing a classic 2-phase RFM.
So, in conclusion I want to point out that we should keep in mind the bigger picture when we read what SM had to say. He is explaining the small parts and concepts but lets not lose sight of the big picture, the RMF and the VIBRATION, which produce the DC current generator function of the TPU, not to mention it's gyroscopic behavior.
EM
PS, there are obviously different types of TPU that Steven built, and this principle of generation is cetainly adaptable. Studying the OTPU makes me realize that we do'nt even need a collector coil, the control coils can do everyting, both creating the rotating magnetic fields, and moving with the ring they are wound around when it deforms, thus inducing a DC current in the same windings. The magnets and the two vertical coils are part of the equation obviously, but I think these are peculiarities of how Steven implemented his TPUs in the begining.
Comments from Steven:
Lindsay, I have just received your second letter where you start off with:
OH MY GOD!
I am pleased that you can clearly see the turbine...
The interesting thing is how with the right combination of
frequencies, you can actually create a revolving field with inertial!
After re-reading what SM had to say about the collector and control windings, and specifically that the control winding are wound in 3 segments, with each segment being fed a separate frequency, it is now clear to me that he is creating a rotating magnetic field on purpose, not as a byproduct. What he is a bit unclear about is how the DC is created, and offers his suggestion that it is something like "squeezing the hose", and its pretty close, but the actual physics are more involved as I tried to describe.
For the practical person:
No need to wrap your mind around such complicated ideas of how this thing operates, just input three frequencies into the 3 segments wound around the collector coil(s), which by the way are also connected to the control winding in series, something that often it is missed. So when the frequencies flow through the control coils, they also flow though the collector coils, and the magnetic field that is produced creates electrodynamic forces on the collector coil and it begins to vibrate and resonate and ultimately, the DC producing dynamo effect or turbine effect develops. That is the condition when everything is operating in synchronicity and the frequencies mix or add just right to create the rotating field or turbine effect, and the whole thing starts "converting" energy. you don't have to understand how the "RADIO" works, just have to know how to turn it on and tune in. Just be ready with a "kill" switch.
Ok.
So, did he know the difference between 'revolve' and 'rotate'?
You can create a revolving field. Good luck on create a rotating field.
Creating a revolving field, which encompasses a ring conductor (in the same way a magnetic field encompasses a current carrying wire) should certainly create DC current.
To do so, you need three frequencies...
----
| . |
----
One for the inside diameter ( left '|')
One for the outside diameter(right '|')
One for top and bottom (----).
Why was the cross-section so tall and thin? Because, the frequency for the top/bottom was not injected but the result of the inner and outer frequencies AND the top and bottom fields had to be radial.
These are all great and fun tangents to think about but the problem remains. Unless these devices made use of external energy they would be limited to designs including micro-switches and hidden batteries with the energy controlled or stored within them.
I don't think these devices use Faraday induction.
I don't think anything will come of a device using a single dimension rotation-like field.
I do think the vibration is a secondary effect. Somewhat like the rudder of a small sailboat in a good wind. When things are moving along well the rudder will hum or buzz like you have a hidden motor in the boat ;)
I don't think the earth's magnetic field is utilized in the TPU as it does not require orientation to the earth's magnetic field. ;D
I think vibration is an effect and not a cause. :D
Neither use of the earth's magnetic field, or accustic, or vibrational theories offer a mechanism for gain - >:-)
The million dollar question:
Where are the north and south poles of the magnetic field around a wire? :o
The method that I mentioend above is synonymous with rotating a monopole magnet... O0
WW, yes the field is "revolving" not "rotating" if that's a more appropriate word. I like your 3 frequency concepts, unfortunately, Steven said they are harmonics of each other and depend on the circumference, so your take on it is unique, however, if they varied based on the geometry as you suggest, wouldn't the TPU ring than have to be very thick? ie, R3 = 3R1 and R2 = 2R1, where R1 is the inner radius. So you see that's not it. The harmonics produce different wavelengths along the circumference, not across it.
Both you and Grumpy think vibration is not important for energy generation? :-\
Consider again what he said: "you can actually create a revolving field with inertia" you think the inertia is a product of the fact that a magnetic field revolves or rotates around the ring?. Last time I energized an AC 2-phase stator winding, I couldn't tell any difference in how it behaved as far as turning it, there was no gyroscopic effect or inertial effect difference from its unenergized state. In fact, the momentum carried by electromagnetic fields is very very small, orders of magnitude smaller than what matter offers. I'll tell you where the inertia comes from, the inertial properties and the gyroscopic properties both originate from the VIBRATION of the ring, which has mass and inertia, and this vibration is just not back and forth, or a bending of the ring at a set angular position, although this will produce the gyroscopic effect as well, but it begins to REVOLVE around circumference of the ring, or collector coil, due to the Coriolis effect, and also the phasing and rotation of the electromagnetic field, but the EM field rotates at an unbelievable fast speed, and the ring's mechanical vibration can not catch up instantly, so it takes a while for it to rev up, hence Steven observed this delay in time and called it the "turbine" effect.
yes friends, there is mechanical vibration in the rings which is quite necessary to its operation. If we stifle that vibration, the device will stop producing extra energy.
@ G,
if the "magnetic field of the earth" is not required, than why would SM tell us that it has "an inherent frequency and we tune into it" ? Or that he found a way to make the TPUs not be orientation dependent? We have to look at his TPUs and how they evolved from the simple ones to the complex one. The only one that seems to not be orientation dependent is the 6" one that he holds 90 deg to the gravitational vector and they still work (when demonstrating it on the glass table) even the little one, when he is done with it he turns it up-side-down to stop it. Why would that be? ???
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.05.08, 15:12:05
Both you and Grumpy think vibration is not important for energy generation? :-\
Consider again what he said: "you can actually create a revolving field with inertia" you think the inertia is a product of the fact that a magnetic field revolves or rotates around the ring?. Last time I energized an AC 2-phase stator winding, I couldn't tell any difference in how it behaved as far as turning it, there was no gyroscopic effect or inertial effect difference from its unenergized state. In fact, the momentum carried by electromagnetic fields is very very small, orders of magnitude smaller than what matter offers. I'll tell you where the inertia comes from, the inertial properties and the gyroscopic properties both originate from the VIBRATION of the ring, which has mass and inertia, and this vibration is just not back and forth, or a bending of the ring at a set angular position, although this will produce the gyroscopic effect as well, but it begins to REVOLVE around circumference of the ring, or collector coil, due to the Coriolis effect, and also the phasing and rotation of the electromagnetic field, but the EM field rotates at an unbelievable fast speed, and the ring's mechanical vibration can not catch up instantly, so it takes a while for it to rev up, hence Steven observed this delay in time and called it the "turbine" effect.
yes friends, there is mechanical vibration in the rings which is quite necessary to its operation. If we stifle that vibration, the device will stop producing extra energy.
Where does SM state that "vibration" is required or used to create an overunity effect?Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.05.08, 15:12:05
@ G,
if the "magnetic field of the earth" is not required, than why would SM tell us that it has "an inherent frequency and we tune into it" ? Or that he found a way to make the TPUs not be orientation dependent? We have to look at his TPUs and how they evolved from the simple ones to the complex one. The only one that seems to not be orientation dependent is the 6" one that he holds 90 deg to the gravitational vector and they still work (when demonstrating it on the glass table) even the little one, when he is done with it he turns it up-side-down to stop it. Why would that be? ???
EM
SM thought, at the time, that the extra energy came from the earth's magnetic field. At the ened of the UEC video, he states the the energy comes from inside the device!
Early TPU's stopped when flipped for the same reason that Chef's arc rotates and also stops when flipped: that constituents of the medum have an inherent spin direction and this is what is rotating. Review virtual particles and you will find that they are the force carriers of EM fields. Where is the inertia? With the force carriers!
Here are SM's answers to some interesting questions:
Quote
I would like to answer a few questions I have read on Stefan's web site..
I would like to mention Stefan and Freedom fuel and Bushwacker and Mica individually but
instead I will just make statements that can be relevant to whomever as needed.
First of all:
- 1 There are several parts of the power unit which have patents. Remember that the
power unit technology is owned by the UEC corporation and I have to be very careful
about not stepping on their toes. I am not afraid of them or anything like that. It is just that
they are the legitimate owners of the patents and most of the research ect. I would not like
to break my trust with them.
However, I can, and will give to all of you as much information as I can. I believe that I will
be able to give you enough information to begin research on your own. I just have to pass
it in front of my attorney first so I do not get myself into trouble, that's all.
- 2 I will in time give out a basic Hardware diagram which you may find helpful.
- 3 No, I will not publish a schematic diagram of the control circuit. It is proprietary
information owned and controlled by the UEC Corporation, so I won't go there.
- 4 I will tell you about my initial experiments and what Electron tube circuits I used to
control the frequencies that gave us our significant breakthroughs way back when.
- 5 Yes, Stefan I do intend to point you in the right direction. You deserve at least that
much for all of the good effort you have put forth for so long. And especially your
kindness to me.
- 6 About the Flame like Discharge. Yes it does cause RF burns. I was going to tell about
that, but I decided to wait and see how long it would take one of you to realize this on your
own. Bravo!
- 7 The patents are in several segments pertaining only to the control units not the
collector coil itself, so I will send you examples of the hardware diagrams. however, I do
not have access to a PC at all times so it will take some time for me to be able to scan
things and send them off, be patient please. Also I am not spending all my time sitting in
front of a PC reading and sending. I must travel to a public place in order to safely send
any information at all.
- 8 YES, toroidal transformers have some very weird factors.. Study the strange factors.
- 9 Your interest in the harmonic resonance is also stepping toward the right direction of
things. But then again it depends on your viewpoint about exactly what harmonic
resonance is and how it relates to mag fields and converting energy as does my power
unit.
- 10 We have done a great deal of experimentation with permanent magnets with some
very astounding results.
I could stop now and start over again with that subject alone. Has anyone ever read any of
the reports about our experiments with what was called, the Magnetic shadow casting
material? No it wasn't some kind of paint. But you would be fascinated with the amount of
renewable energy you can extract from a permanent magnet! We went through about ten
thousand dollars worth of Neodymium and Super Cobalt 404 magnetic material in our
experiments. I could write volumes of information about that stuff. Those experiments tie
in to our development of the power unit.
- 11 Yes, I agree, why does everybody assume that magnetic fields are so single
dimensional?
they are not . . .they can't be.
- 12 Who ever it was that said there might be possibly military applications for this
technology is a very wise man. We believe that is probably the primary government
interest followed by the ever popular oil industry trying to stop it.
- 13 I am sorry, they are not piezo stacks. However, they do look like it. And some of what
you said is not far off at all.
- 14 Both Freedomfuel and bushwacker have good and relevant points. (what are they?)
- 15 Yes there is inertia.
- 16 Yes there is a genuine gyroscopic effect when the units are on. Everybody has
noticed that when held and in operation, the units have a definite vibration and have a
gyroscopic effect. They seam to resist being moved through the air. When placed on a
smooth surface it is very pronounced. Some of you should think about that.
- 17 Rotation of field. . . How many people think about that. If you could have a field that
you could think of as a big ball. And you could rotate it in two directions what would the
ramifications be?
I hope some of you will appreciate this info, my direct response and the spirit in which it is given.
Sincerely,
SM
EDIT: another comment from Lindsay:
QuoteWhen it is unloaded the voltage climbs substantially and I do not mean a spike. it lasts for several seconds and is a good third higher.
Steven calls it the turbine effect.
Sounds like the load draws on the ability of the field to rotate. (slows it down)
A Semi circular Tesla coil would create the necessary action in a very simple way. Low component count and HV generation from a small power supply. The windings would look like a Don Smith or SM ring with the outer winding on it. This configuration is super simple. The thumping would also arise from the hv discharge affecting the resonant ring magnetic (bias) field. The snake bites it tail syndrome. Would you not hold this between your fingers gingerly? This configuration also sets up a mobius feedback.
Like Gridbias stated: the loop and cap are the end of the wire. So basically we have a tank circuit at the end of the Tesla coil. Same as it ever was. Alot of common devices have the stungun circuit with a differing output stage. But the TPU folds the output process back into the driving process. This duplicates the self destructing transformer. The transformer is inside the oscillating field. Don Smith also stated the ac pumping charge back through the DC supply lead. DC current flows out and the AC goes in along the magnetic field. Genius, absolute genius. Put this in a ring and call it a TPU.
I have seen all the specifications of electronics components, field vectors, and material physics. But does no one touch the spark gap impact on a coil from the initial strike to the start of conduction to the oscillating field wrapped around the device? In a ring the North pole chases the South forever. Sound like revolving to me...
But wait... There's more:
If three semicircular Tesla coils are put in a ring then we get 3 frequencies. 3? A very simplistic way to avert an NDA disclosure item. 3 separate frequency channels and not 3 distinct frequencies.
In the OTPU the red exposed wires could be the top of each output from 1 of three transformers.
QuoteBravo!
Been there, got the tee shirt.
Tesla would demonstrate that high levels of current were flowing in the space around his transmitter by placing a piece of aluminum on a stick, and then it would vaporize when place in the field of current.
Spherics said you can place two copper rods in the rotating field and measure substantial voltage and current.
My best guess (assuming the TPU is genuine) is that SM found a way of extracting energy from magnets within the TPU by vibrating many wire strands he talks about, in the strong magnet fields. Some of this energy created could then have been used to further strengthen the magnetic field. Simplistically, I envisage a toroid of strong permanent magnets around which is wound an energising coil(s) which starts the magnets revolving at extremely high speed freely within a carrier tube, which in turn cut many strands of short collector wire massed around the magnets to produce high current, which in turn is then stepped-up in voltage. The mix of frequencies may be necessary to tune the energising coils to achieve maximum / optimum magnet rotation speed. Some of the The heat produced may be the result of frictional losses incurred from the spinning magnets. This arrangement is more likely for the big TPU. I regard the small TPU as a fake to introduce confusion in that it is harder to envisage a common modus-operandi for all TPU's. The spinning magnets could account for the observed vibration. The biggest clue for me is that he says a lot of money was spent on magnets and research on them.
Hoppy
If you have a resonant field wrapped in a toroid the oscillations will cut the outside winding.
Worked in the GK4...
Still pretty simple whether large or small. And can be made in a delightfull array of configurations. Can be purchased as kits from Radio shack per SM in speaking of the components. In fact if you open a stun gun you will see the Radio shack audio transformer as the coupler from the oscillator to the spark gap.
Per the picture the blue winding acts as a pancake type coil when viewed how the pulsed charge from the red Tesla coil secondary becomes resonantly charged and EMPS the blue which then further EMPS to the final feedback loop.
This would get very nasty quickly. Hardly any circuitry like SM said. And the coils work naturally in a new way.
OBTW the blue wire is speaker wire. And we incorporate eletrostatics in a new way. SM showed the white sparks.
G, I'll have to see where SM mentioned a few things about vibration, but I don't think he specificaly said that, that's my take on it, because we know that without vibration, it is just another coil. I've proved this to myself.
Inertial, like I said, comes from matter moving or vibrating, not from the rotating fields, that have insignificant momentum. I've worked with mega watt radars that pulse rapidly, and I never saw any recoil, like from a gun that is fired. But yes, fields do carry momentum, but it's very tiny.
@all,
This is the configuration of the TPU that SM mentioned. 3 sectors of the collector coil, that are also wired in various ways to the collector coil inside of them. He obviously is talking about his later units here, becasue some of the earlier ones seem to be totaly passive coils.
So, why is this so hard to test? Get a frequency, double it, and also tripple it, and use a buffer stage and than inject those into the 3 segments. Than adjust just the fundamental to match it to the respective coil, and the other two frequencies will change automaticaly since they are derived from the fundamental.
EM
Whatever is rotating or revolving is not doing so around one axis. Every time someone posts the quote about rotation I look for bulbs to light but it is still dark.
The discussion always goes back to a single axis of rotation.
Then, the quote about the gyroscopic action.... It is clearly said that there is more to it than the action like a single gyroscope. The thing prefers a station-keeping action. Try that with a loop of vibrating wires.
Why does the discussion never go beyond a gyroscope and a single axis of rotation?
I like EM thinking about the necessary vibration. What if.... and now rant mode is on!
Current carrying wires are creating magnetic fields. The amount of DC current flowing in a wire could be calculated by the ohm's law, knowing the RESISTANT of the wire segment. Placing a wire to an external magnetic field (90 degree), and switching on the flow, the result will be the magnetic force will appear, which will MOVE the wire. The strength of magnetic force on the wire will depending on the current strength, the length of the wire segment, and the strength of the EXTERNAL FIELD. Basically we can increase the force by introducing bigger external fields.
We usually carry currents to the loads from the sources,which currents dissipated as converted work in time, and cost us real work in time, or from sources to sources! In the latter case, the flowing currents are recoverable, except the loss caused by the circuit resistant. In the ideal circuit, we could transmit energy from one point to another without any losses. In the real word circuits, the resistant of the wires will dissipate some of the work, creating HEAT! Wait, not magnetic fields? So a superconductor wire could carry DC current from one point to another, without any losses, and in the meantime still generating magnetic field. Sometimes, when I step up from the reality like EM do :), I'm thinking because of the AC currents came in to the picture, we missed the whole point about the power generation by magnetic fields, and wires, and....
Please follow this example: a very big rod magnet floating in the space, and we imagine ourselves in a big glass ball with some charged battery, cap, and wires, and we start to play. We use a short wire, and discharge a cap to it in our hands, and we will see the movement imparted on us, and if our legs touched the ball, on the whole. If we would have a thousand source, and we discharge all at the same time, each one to a short wire, the movement would be bigger. This movement in our reference frame, in the glass ball, was not convert able, hence we just moved freely in space! If we would do the same, in the earth gravity field, and the force was directed upwards ( yeah, would require a LOT of current), we would float the same, on the magnetic field of the big magnet, but when the cap discharged fully, the inevitable will come, and we will FALL BACK. The gravity was necessary to convert the resultant movement of the ball, to recoverable work! I guess, any material could do the same, make this force recoverable.
So, educated guys here, please correct me! Tell me why the amount of LOSS in a short wire which carrying DC current changing when subjected to different strength external magnetic fields?
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.05.08, 20:46:42
@all,
This is the configuration of the TPU that SM mentioned. 3 sectors of the collector coil, that are also wired in various ways to the collector coil inside of them. He obviously is talking about his later units here, becasue some of the earlier ones seem to be totaly passive coils.
EM
the actual quote about the three collector coils:
QuoteAbout the collector:
It is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on top of the other, not
interleaved. Three is important. You can do many things with three coils. You can run
them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in parallel, or etc.
You can run a separate frequency into each coil for better control on large power units if
need be.
The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around each of the horizontal
collector coils. Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal collector coils
together.
G, you underlined another frustrating aspect of this whole saga, the athenticity of SM's emails. I have a document with slightly different verbage, and there is always the confusion between the CONTROL winding, and the COLLECTOR winding. >:(
EM
I had mentioned this multiple times before that SM seems to jump to different devices without telling us he switched. His explainations at any given point point to any device or a particular one without designation.
Any way that is what I surmised as I tried to follow.
@Grumpy @GK @EM
"you can run two in series and one in parallel, or etc."
This concords with my last post. Why else would you put two layers in series but to have each layer as a separate polarity.
But as @GK and @EM have just said, SM is jumping all over the place. If you try and analyze what you just posted, taking each line and try to plan out a build, you will quickly realize this is totally illogical. It is as if for each clue, he lays down a few bummers just to clean the slate with the Bigs.
What he is saying there first about the "collector coils" is making three layers of wound coils. He does not say they are horizontal. Then when he talks about control coils, these are wound vertically over EACH of the horizontal collector coils.
Well make up your mind. He says wind the collectors 1 on 2 on 3, but then he says the controls go vertically over EACH of the collectors. So now he says wind collector 1, wind control over it, then collector 2, wind control over it, then collector 3, wind control over it, then wind some more controls over all of them.
If this was true, then when he did the cut-away video we would have seen wires being ripped away from so many angles that is should have made a total mess. That is impossible because there was no mess. Only one white wire about 2 inches longs fell to the ground after he did the cut. Also his build depiction would make 6 to 9 layers of wires that woudl be much thicker then the walls of the LTPU. Not logical again.
If you ask me, the only real verbiage that can be trusted is whatever he said in the FTPU video. This was device no. 1 that he made way before the days of total paranoia and deception and investors sunk it deep enough. When SM came to the forum, it was during those hard times with the Bigs so he must have been in total paranoia mode. He put on a nice sincere and calm face of someone who is all knowledgeable when he was discussing with Mannix but during that time he must have felt like there was a knife at his throat. So he gave some and took some. The problem is which is which.
wattsup
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.05.08, 15:12:05
, wouldn't the TPU ring than have to be very thick? ie, R3 = 3R1 and R2 = 2R1, where R1 is the inner radius. So you see that's not it. The harmonics produce different wavelengths along the circumference, not across it.
My bad. You didn't understand my meaning. The train of thought was just another variation on the multitude of opinions about the TPU.
One point you may wish to look into.... Most will never create DC output using any Faraday induction, vibrating wires or otherwise. I've seen it show on simulators before. That means almost nothing.
Here's a micromachined "TPU", O0
http://www.ee.gatech.edu/research/integrated-mems/publications/journals/Ayazi_JMEMS_Gyro.pdf
Quote:
... when the device is subjected to rotation around its normal axis, Coriolis force causes energy to be transfered from the primary mode to the secondary flexural mode, which is located 45 deg apart from the primary mode...
PS. Here's another paper: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a439267.pdf
I like this concept of a gyroscope, no moving parts, just vibration. This is just a sample to hopefully cause you to realize that the dynamics that go on in a TPU are quite complex, even though we try so hard to make it sound simplistic. Also, the gyroscopic effect is due to vibration, that's the main point I want to make.
I recall SM stated that the ones cut up didnt work. Maybe because they didnt have the outer winding.
Quote from: wattsup on 2012.05.09, 02:29:26
If you ask me, the only real verbiage that can be trusted is whatever he said in the FTPU video. This was device no. 1 that he made way before the days of total paranoia and deception and investors sunk it deep enough.
wattsup
Good point. I wish I had an unedited copy of the UEC video. He said some things at the end that were important enough to remove...
Quote
Yes, I agree, why does everybody assume that magnetic fields are so single dimensional?
they are not . . .they can't be.
Which one do I take to narrow my view to single axis rotation, pseudo generators and circuit sims with the math dummied-up to make things work?
Is it the red one or the blue one?
The title of this thread is wrong.
I thought that it was common knowledge on these forums by now that magnetic fields are 3D. When one direction is saturated, they are still active in the other directions. A couple of patents using this property were posted a long time ago.
Here are short transcripts from two of the TPU videos:
Transcript of video when the washboard effect was demonstrated: (EMDevices)
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=403.msg16771#msg16771
Transcript of video when SM is explaining that the operating principles are not magic, and the energy comes from within the device: (ION)
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=403.msg8474;topicseen#msg8474
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_jJExZ1mBE&playnext=1&list=PLB1B2087E4EC1AB40&index=51 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_jJExZ1mBE&playnext=1&list=PLB1B2087E4EC1AB40&index=51)
@ 30:40
The audio blinks out as the camera is close and almost over head of the tpu.
@30:35
Different sine wave
@31:35
Not displacement sensitive, but responds when moved.
@33:00
Frequency sensitive. The generated field acts like a bias to external stimuli
@32:40
6inches, 12ounces, 7Amps.
And
@34:48
You can hear the start of 'self contained' before the audio is cut.
Not collecting energy from [outer] space.
He states it is not a technology equivalent to perpetual motion. Uses electromagnetic fields.
I still say dual resonant transformers held off point by a safety factor.
It produces power, heat, gyro-vibration, yet doesn't self destruct.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.05.09, 18:41:25
@33:00
Frequency sensitive. The generated field acts like a bias to external stimuli
"The generated field acts like a bias to external stimuli" I am really surprised this was not edited out. This is almost the definition of a "magnifier" or an "enhancer".
Here is what I know about a TPU...
Behold! The control schematic:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/circuit_diagram.png (http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/circuit_diagram.png)
Plug that into your simulator and see what you get ;D
I've mad a start building it WW but i am stuck on how the wire connects to the sun >:-)
I do believe the 1 Ohm resistor network will work well, i tried something similar after a few beers a couple of days ago. :P
Quote"The generated field acts like a bias to external stimuli"
Nice catch GK
Quote"The generated field acts like a bias to external stimuli"
This is the same protocol as Hutchison where he interferes in the bias area of 2 Tesla coils with a High Frequency transducer. As we know this alters the construct of matter.
The configuration that SM uses has a very narrow bandwidth of control. He warns it jumps to self destruct very fast. The Hutchison protocol has a wide bandwidth or an area to excite on purpose. We see John claiming this to be random. So he has an greater window to work in. The difference between Steve and John is the distance of the 2 coils. SM has them in very close or uncomfortable proximity. John has them separated by variable space. In that open space is the weak field that is controllable to a finite degree. Steve has the field compressed. No wonder it can self detonate.
Magnacoaster also uses the weak field.
Don Smith also stated applying an ac charge pulse to the dc power lead field to recharge the power supply whilst drawing dc current.
TTBrown applies a High Voltage to an aluminum surface and gets thrust. In this case the secondary field is the reflection off the aluminum surface. So again there is a secondary field impacting a primary field.
Bingo! Buddies.....
Instead of using a coil to transmit a field to another coil this new process uses 2 coils to transmit into a interactive space. This space can be used in a myriad of ways.
This is the
new type of induction.
[Conjugated resonant structure] That's Bearden speak for [Free energy]. ^-^
.
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.
—Francis Bacon
Tool Candy...
http://www.resonantmachines.com/?gclid=CMfH36ns9K8CFWrptgodB2DiXA (http://www.resonantmachines.com/?gclid=CMfH36ns9K8CFWrptgodB2DiXA)
GK, where did you hear the bias statement in the video? It's not at the 33rd minute.
When he stated the device is 'effected by frequency'.
This is equivalent to the [shorting coil] thread and numerous other examples of non-phased, non-harmonic vector manipulation.
The goal in any true performing device is [Phased Harmonic Vector] control. [Phased conjugate] in other terms.
As an example:
http://sharp.bu.edu/~slehar/PhaseConjugate/PhaseConjugate.html (http://sharp.bu.edu/~slehar/PhaseConjugate/PhaseConjugate.html)
The total google thread:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=Phased+conjugate&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC (http://www.bing.com/search?q=Phased+conjugate&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC)
Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.05.10, 16:35:22
When he stated the device is 'effected by frequency'.
This is equivalent to the [shorting coil] thread and numerous other examples of non-phased, non-harmonic vector manipulation.
The goal in any true performing device is [Phased Harmonic Vector] control. [Phased conjugate] in other terms.
As an example:
http://sharp.bu.edu/~slehar/PhaseConjugate/PhaseConjugate.html (http://sharp.bu.edu/~slehar/PhaseConjugate/PhaseConjugate.html)
The total google thread:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=Phased+conjugate&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC (http://www.bing.com/search?q=Phased+conjugate&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC)
How is the statement 'effected by frequency' equivalent to the shorted coil thread, or related to phase conjugation? (phase conjugation is so "Bearden-esque" that I found it painful just to type the word on my keyboard)
Without further explanation, 'effected by frequency' is just an ambiguous observation.
The process is 2 Tesla coils in the vicinity of each other. Then between the two we inject a frequency. The target object is also in the bias area. This is what Hutchison has done but announced the effect is produced in a random way. I say that is the same babble speak as SM where there is obfuscation, i.e. talking about one thing yet implying another with no clue or direction given.
Look at the LTPU/SM17 there are top and botton rings with a ring between them. There are two generators in the center that resemble voice coil drivers.
What is guaranteed is that Hutchison and SM both have produced anomalous results. Hutchison showed standard devices, Sm showed a rabbit in the hat device which men of all levels have tried to explain and or reproduce. The argument of a rotating field is still conjecture. I say it is like EM mentioned and is the flux circulating in a magnetic wave guide. Marco submitted numerous diagrams of this.
The reproduction will not come from a white paper, complex calculations or 6 years of conversations.
What I can guarantee is to take 2 Tesla coils and a transducer mounted in a frame for exact angular position and distance. Fire away at the target with varying power settings and see what happens. Then fold this design back on itself in a calcualted way to permit recycyling of a tame process.
QuoteA technique has been developed and tested for achieving phase conjugation in the microwave and millimeter-wave regime. The effective nonlinearity required for this phase-conjugation process is provided by electronic mixing elements feeding an array of antennas. Using these balanced mixing circuits in conjunction with a one-dimensional array antenna, we have demonstrated two-dimensional free-space phase conjugation at 10.24 GHz. A critical factor of this technique is the delivery of a 2ω pump signal to each array element with the same phase. Two types of interconnects, electrical and a more versatile optical technique, have been implemented to distribute the pump signal in our demonstrations. In both systems, two-dimensional free-space phase conjugation was observed and verified by directly measuring the electric-field amplitude and phase distribution under various conditions. The electric-field wave-fronts exhibited retro-directivity and the auto-correction characteristics of phase conjugation. Furthermore, these experiments have shown amplified conjugate-wave power up to ten times of that of the incoming wave. This amplifying ability demonstrates the potential of such arrays to be used in novel communications applications
QuoteMaxwell, however, was careful to point out the ad hoc nature of assuming the stress in the vacuum, and that no mechanism for it had been discovered, nor was such a mechanism contained in his theory. Specifically, Maxwell said:
"It must be carefully borne in mind that we have made only one step in the theory of the action of the medium. We have supposed it to be in a state of stress, but we have not in any way accounted for this stress, or explained how it is maintained. This step, however, seems to me to be an important one, as it explains, by the action of the consecutive parts of the medium, phenomena which were formerly supposed to be explicable only by direct action at a distance. ... I have not been able to make the next step, namely, to account by mechanical considerations for these stresses in the dielectric. I therefore leave the theory at this point, merely stating what are the other parts of the phenomenon of induction in dielectrics."
Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.05.10, 17:35:35
The process is 2 Tesla coils in the vicinity of each other. Then between the two we inject a frequency. The target object is also in the bias area. This is what Hutchison has done but announced the effect is produced in a random way. I say that is the same babble speak as SM where there is obfuscation, i.e. talking about one thing yet implying another with no clue or direction given.
Look at the LTPU/SM17 there are top and botton rings with a ring between them. There are two generators in the center that resemble voice coil drivers.
If you mix a bunch of loosely investigated or explained effects together, you will never make sense of the mess.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.05.10, 17:35:35
What is guaranteed is that Hutchison and SM both have produced anomalous results. Hutchison showed standard devices, Sm showed a rabbit in the hat device which men of all levels have tried to explain and or reproduce. The argument of a rotating field is still conjecture. I say it is like EM mentioned and is the flux circulating in a magnetic wave guide. Marco submitted numerous diagrams of this.
Last I heard, Marco was working on something else.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.05.10, 17:35:35
The reproduction will not come from a white paper, complex calculations or 6 years of conversations.
What I can guarantee is to take 2 Tesla coils and a transducer mounted in a frame for exact angular position and distance. Fire away at the target with varying power settings and see what happens. Then fold this design back on itself in a calcualted way to permit recycyling of a tame process.
Good luck with that.
Its a mess anyway. What progress has been gained so far?
I ask this with investigative intent.
@All
PJKBook has been updated.
Relevant part starts on page 3-107
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.05.10, 17:06:17
...
(phase conjugation is so "Bearden-esque" that I found it painful just to type the word on my keyboard)
...
excellent. ;D
Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.05.10, 21:27:24
Its a mess anyway. What progress has been gained so far?
I ask this with investigative intent.
a few interesting things but I set it aside to race ATV's instead - more fun!: >:-)
G, make sure you accelerate the same duration going EAST, as you do going WEST, in order not to disturb the rotation of the earth! :D
sounds like fun, enjoy!
EM
I found this brief discussion of producing current without using an EMF.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=250863
After discussion of what EMF is and superconducting loops, the question of how to start the superconducting loop arises, and the answer is to use a magnet to start the current.
I think this is what SM may have been doing with his magnet: starting the device by inducing an initial current. Use of a battery would produce unwanted distraction from the unique properties of the device, questions, and doubts.
We may be able to avoid some common limitations by driving a current without an EMF.
Any thoughts?
From G:
QuoteI think this is what SM may have been doing with his magnet: starting the device by inducing an initial current. Use of a battery would produce unwanted distraction from the unique properties of the device, questions, and doubts.
Swiping a magnet cannot induce a DC flow. It will always give an AC component as the magnet is moved towards then away from the wire or across the wire, or as the magnet velocity increases then decreases. Try it and watch the e.m.f. on a scope or suitable meter. It will create both polarities of current flow vs. time.
e.g as a magnet approaches a coil the generated e.m.f is registered in one direction, as the magnet slows to a stop, the opposite polarity e.m.f. is registered.
Another point, supposing SM wanted to induce an AC current, he is swiping the magnet the wrong way, should be across the wires.
In my opinion, must be a different reason, like aligning domains. This is more in agreement with the direction of magnet swipes vs. wire winding.
I've just done this experiment. Attach a coil to a permanent magnet. Move them together through the air. A signal is read. First, I'd like to know if this is due to control experiment error. If not, then is it possible to have a signal?
The swiping is also parallel to an iron wire core as noted by EMD in a previous post. The iron wire gets biased or magnetized.
Quote from: ION on 2012.11.27, 02:57:21
From G:
Swiping a magnet cannot induce a DC flow. It will always give an AC component as the magnet is moved towards then away from the wire or across the wire, or as the magnet velocity increases then decreases. Try it and watch the e.m.f. on a scope or suitable meter. It will create both polarities of current flow vs. time.
e.g as a magnet approaches a coil the generated e.m.f is registered in one direction, as the magnet slows to a stop, the opposite polarity e.m.f. is registered.
Another point, supposing SM wanted to induce an AC current, he is swiping the magnet the wrong way, should be across the wires.
In my opinion, must be a different reason, like aligning domains. This is more in agreement with the direction of magnet swipes vs. wire winding.
You are correct. Didn't think about that.
In that large coil with the non-toroidal windings, did he ever say if it turned off when flipped over?
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.11.27, 02:59:48
I've just done this experiment. Attach a coil to a permanent magnet. Move them together through the air. A signal is read. First, I'd like to know if this is due to control experiment error. If not, then is it possible to have a signal?
As the coil cuts through the earth magnetic field, you will get a signal. You don't really need the magnet, a high inductance air core coil will show a fluctuation. I tried this with a 9 Henry air core and with a magnet in the center, results the same each time. Best to put a small cap across the coil to reduce some of the stray noise pickup, then it is easier to see the low frequency signal from movement.
The signal is most pronounced when rotating the coil left and right on a vertical axis. It is a weak generator, just as you would expect from the weak excitation of the earth field. Moving linearly along any axis produces no signal.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.11.27, 03:12:19
You are correct. Didn't think about that.
In that large coil with the non-toroidal windings, did he ever say if it turned off when flipped over?
I don't think he said anything to that effect. To my understanding, there are only two instances of this, one during the description and operation of the FTPU, and in a separate video, during the demo of the smallest unit 3" across. He turns that unit over as he goes to the next room to demo the large unit.
Quote from: ION on 2012.11.27, 03:18:05
As the coil cuts through the earth magnetic field, you will get a signal. You don't really need the magnet, a high inductance air core coil will show a fluctuation. I tried this with a 9 Henry air core and with a magnet in the center, results the same each time. Best to put a small cap across the coil to reduce some of the stray noise pickup, then it is easier to see the low frequency signal from movement.
The signal is most pronounced when rotating the coil left and right on a vertical axis. It is a weak generator, just as you would expect from the weak excitation of the earth field. Moving linearly along any axis produces no signal.
if you flip this coil, doesn't the polarity reverse?
SM found a way to substitute EMF, and his early devices used the earth field, but was it the earth's magnetic field or gravitational field?
Quote from: ION on 2012.11.27, 03:18:05
As the coil cuts through the earth magnetic field, you will get a signal. You don't really need the magnet, a high inductance air core coil will show a fluctuation. I tried this with a 9 Henry air core and with a magnet in the center, results the same each time. Best to put a small cap across the coil to reduce some of the stray noise pickup, then it is easier to see the low frequency signal from movement.
The signal is most pronounced when rotating the coil left and right on a vertical axis. It is a weak generator, just as you would expect from the weak excitation of the earth field. Moving linearly along any axis produces no signal.
Thanks ION,
I did detect a weak signal as you described about the earth magnetic field. With the magnet, I can do it linearly along an axis. It doesn't work without the magnet. Then again, It may be an error. Besides the error, the reason maybe I'm cutting the magnet through the air and the air induce a signal into the coil.
Quote from: ION on 2012.11.27, 03:18:05
As the coil cuts through the earth magnetic field, you will get a signal. You don't really need the magnet, a high inductance air core coil will show a fluctuation. I tried this with a 9 Henry air core and with a magnet in the center, results the same each time. Best to put a small cap across the coil to reduce some of the stray noise pickup, then it is easier to see the low frequency signal from movement.
The signal is most pronounced when rotating the coil left and right on a vertical axis. It is a weak generator, just as you would expect from the weak excitation of the earth field. Moving linearly along any axis produces no signal.
These are the principles roughly of the induction compass that Hendershot improved upon to make his generator.
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.11.27, 02:59:48
Attach a coil to a permanent magnet. Move them together through the air. A signal is read.
...
Absolute motion comes back! The end of relativity! Einstein will turn in his grave.
Quote
First, I'd like to know if this is due to control experiment error. ...
Yes it is, for example because the voltmeter is not co-moving or the earth field not taken into account.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.11.27, 02:09:01
I found this brief discussion of producing current without using an EMF.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=250863
After discussion of what EMF is and superconducting loops, the question of how to start the superconducting loop arises, and the answer is to use a magnet to start the current.
.....................
Any thoughts?
A true superconducting loop is not subject to Faraday induction as far as ... loop crossing magnetic field lines or relative changes in magnetic flux density induce a current around the loop.
Any such attempt would only create eddy currents on the surface of the superconductor(current consensus).
A superconductor is diamagnetic and will reject magnetic field lines and flux density changes from external sources. The only exception is allowed by imperfections in the superconductor material which allows 'flux-pinning', the reason why a magnet will appear to be 'station-keeping' while influenced by the superconductor.
I don't see how the TPU can be related to a superconductor.
Quote from: ION on 2012.11.27, 02:57:21
............ It will always give an AC component as the magnet is moved towards then away from the wire or across the wire...
At this point it isn't an A.C. component. It is A.C.
Quote...... or as the magnet velocity increases then decreases. Try it and watch the e.m.f. on a scope or suitable meter. It will create both polarities of current flow vs. time.
e.g as a magnet approaches a coil the generated e.m.f is registered in one direction, as the magnet slows to a stop, the opposite polarity e.m.f. is registered.
What?
Then, my DC generator should reverse output polarity when I decrease the RPM?
If you consider a reduction in DC potential to be a reversal of polarity then I understand. A reduction in DC potential is not a reversal of polarity unless that reduction crosses relative zero voltage.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.11.27, 10:29:23
Absolute motion comes back! The end of relativity! Einstein will turn in his grave.
Yes it is, for example because the voltmeter is not co-moving or the earth field not taken into account.
You may have missed my post on relativity and earth field.
Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.11.27, 04:32:59
Thanks ION,
I did detect a weak signal as you described about the earth magnetic field. With the magnet, I can do it linearly along an axis. It doesn't work without the magnet. Then again, It may be an error. Besides the error, the reason maybe I'm cutting the magnet through the air and the air induce a signal into the coil.
I did tried to move the coil and magnet pass another coil, surely strong signal was read.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.11.27, 11:19:55
A true superconducting loop is not subject to Faraday induction as far as ... loop crossing magnetic field lines or relative changes in magnetic flux density induce a current around the loop.
Any such attempt would only create eddy currents on the surface of the superconductor(current consensus).
I don't think the TPU uses Faraday Induction.
Ok, found something, old comments , maybe you knew that or not, that is not my thought but I found it truly resonable and explaining very well,that TPU is just EMP weapon based with a lot of coils wrap around to collect induced current. Ferrite or iron core required.
First comment;
"I have a guess on how a imploding crt could generate magnetic fields way above the usual levels associated with normal tv operation. Of course my theory is about as scientific as discussions of the star ship Enterprize's warp drive. In a article of Popular Mechanics magazine Sept 2001 issue. They discussed how a Electro Magnetic Pulse EMP weapon would work. It requires a collapsing magnetic field, usually you have a coil of superconducting wire, that is energized, and then you have a small explosion which forces a copper tube to progressively short out the length of the coil which causes a induced pulse to emerge from the other end. It sounds far fetched but their illustration kinda looks like a long deflection coil. I know a deflection coil isn't a superconductor but maybe it was struck by lightning at the moment it happened."
Second comment :
"Actually, these TV sets have a flawed design that under the right conditions inverts magnetically. Since they are plugged in when this happens, it causes the usual polarity of the wires running through the walls --which, like everything else, is normally aligned with the fundamental electro-harmonic resonance of the Earth's magnetic field, and therefore causes no problems-- to reverse itself. As soon as this polarity reversal occurs, the wires in the walls REPEL the nails, pushing them out of the walls at high speed, like bullets. This requires less energy than pulling them out would, since you are just reversing the direction that the nails were put in, using a reversed polarity. Since the wires are connected to the city's electrical grid, they have plenty of power available to do this; it is not dependent on what is inside of the TV; all that does is initiate the reversal. Then the power of the city's electrical grid provides the rest of the energy needed. Sometimes when this event occurs, the neighbors' electricity supply "stutters" a little. Ever had your lights flicker or your TV set stutter a bit? It was probably due to this happening somewhere nearby in your city. So you see, the nails don't get sucked into the TV, they get pushed out of the walls.
Once any one of them touches the TV, though, it discharges the imbalance and stops the process, much the way a spark from your hand to a doorknob discharges a static buildup. The kid was just unlucky enough to be in the path of one, before the first one hit the television.
At the risk of oversimplifying, perhaps the easiest way to explain this comes out of the movie "Young Frankenstein": You connect the plus to minus, and minus to plus..."
A question to all you guys:
Do we know if the small magnet used to "start up" the FTPU are also used in the LTPU near the small toroid coils?
Or does the LTPU run without these?
There is no sign of magnets in the LTPU, but with the OTPU there are magnets embedded in the legs so on this basis it is possible there are magnets but are inside the black box attached to the bottom of the toroid s. In other words take your pick C.C
Has anyone else put a timeline together for the technology prior to SM's reverse engineering? -- if so please point me to it or contact me privately. thx.
It's strange, maybe I've missed talk about the TPU \ Hendershot device link.
SM referred to the Compass video
Here's some info on the timeline for the Hendershot device
http://www.rexresearch.com/hendershot2/hendershot.htm
Here's a picture of an early TPU O0
(http://www.rexresearch.com/hendershot2/hendershotgener.jpg)
Has anyone tried building the Hendershot device from his patent, or does anyone know of a replication.?
Could you tell me what this guy from last video talked about ? Something about TPU being mostly made by cork and the possibility of ceramics usage ? What ceramics ? Ordinary ceramic or high inductance ceramic core ?
Mark Snoswell should be familiar with the Hendershot device. He has visited with the group in Mexico who Hendershot taught to build the device.
Output of the Hendershot device is AC, by the way.
I'd like to take another look at it with my new-found insights. I like the AC aspect.
AC Indeed although DC is not that hard to produce from AC ;D
posts about Hendershot device:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=79.msg5354#msg5354
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.12.18, 15:08:05
AC Indeed although DC is not that hard to produce from AC ;D
It's AC because it has two halves alternating. You drive one and then drive the other.
TPU is contiuous drive in a circle, so it's DC.
Hmm.... how to produce DC from AC pulsating at 40 khz with 10-50Amps ? I don't see it's easy
forest why such high current? which TPU demo did you watch?
I dont think i have ever seen a TPU run over 1amp
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.12.18, 15:46:23
forest why such high current? which TPU demo did you watch?
I dont think i have ever seen a TPU run over 1amp
Right, but mine version will run on 100Amps or... explode..... :D
A number of things seems to fit in with this device, a nuclear detonation causes an area devoid of magnetic field, the earths field lines bypass the area and concentrate around the periphery area, this is how his generator works.
The device looks like it fits to me
Then we have the discovery using a rotating compass.
The early device uses a solenoid and switch to switch the device and the field in the solenoid core is also used, this is interesting because we could say there appear to be 2 of these in the legs of the OTPU, a solenoid if driven by battery will build a field in the core, but if a field is imposed on the core then we have a solenoid that generates power.
The solenoid switches off at maximun current or when the magnetic core field is strongest to pull the contacts open, where as if a spark gap was used to switch, it would switch at maximum voltage not current, so we should be switching at max current not voltage.
Is there any diodes capable of rectifying many amps at 40khz frequency ? :(
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.12.18, 20:21:10
A number of things seems to fit in with this device, a nuclear detonation causes an area devoid of magnetic field, the earths field lines bypass the area and concentrate around the periphery area.
The device looks like it fits to me
Then we have the discovery using a rotating compass.
The early device uses a solenoid and switch to switch the device and the field in the solenoid core is also used, this is interesting because we could say there appear to be 2 of these in the legs of the OTPU, a solenoid if driven by battery will build a field in the core, but if a field is imposed on the core then we have a solenoid that generates power.
The solenoid switches off at maximun current or when the magnetic core field is strongest to pull the contacts open, where as if a spark gap was used to switch, it would switch at maximum voltage not current, so we should be switching at max current not voltage.
both create a high voltage pulse
QuoteIs there any diodes capable of rectifying many amps at 40khz frequency ? Sad
Most switched mode power supplies like your pc psu can operate at 200kHz
Careful study of the patent that goes with this attached diagram will give some good clues as to the possible working of this early machine.
This device had to be aligned along the N-S and you can see from items 18 and 27 there were two paths the magnetic flux could take. It would oscillate between the dual paths provided in each of the iron core plates once a resonance was achieved. The core design of 18 and 27 is clever.
Very ingenious, may be worthy of a build. More info on the Rexresearch site, and the 36 mb download has clearer drawings.
Why would he put large coils inside laminated cores (18 and 27)?
Which coils had to be oriented north-south?
Quote from: Grumpy on 2012.12.18, 23:01:49
Why would he put large coils inside laminated cores (18 and 27)?
Which coils had to be oriented north-south?
The coils inside the laminated cores steer the flux through two different paths of the laminated cores. This is part of the oscillation process. (my guess)
The entire assembly was oriented N-S along it's length.
Greater detail in the 36 mb download.
interesting diagram in the 36meg file of the mark 1 device:
I am glad there's some interest, at least we have some information on this one.
Here's another go at the compass video by the same bloke.
I couldn't help but wondering about the protocol for spin echo in relation to the TPU thumping.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.12.19, 09:32:13
I am glad there's some interest, at least we have some information on this one.
Here's another go at the compass video by the same bloke.
Why surprising? With the bar, the magnetic flux is closed. When the bar is removed, the compass lies in a magnetic field that prevents the needle to turn, due to the counter-torque that it exerts.
ex
It's not a compass, it 2 compasses and each is responding differently, with a reversal in reaction when the electromagnet is reversed.
I would expect both compasses to react the same, are you saying it is normal for them not to?
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.12.20, 08:23:58
ex
It's not a compass, it 2 compasses and each is responding differently, with a reversal in reaction when the electromagnet is reversed.
I would expect both compasses to react the same, are you saying it is normal for them not to?
The situation is not symmetrical: the compasses are not the same, the wires enclose the right compass and not the left one, the earth magnetic field relative to the magnets field is not specified, and we saw that even a slight difference can make the needle to turn or not (some attempts failed) so this experiment is inconclusive, we are inside the experimental uncertainty.
One of the most disturbing point is that the horse magnet is (theoretically) on the axis of the coil magnet, and consequently its flux through the coil should be strictly null. Now the least deviation from the perfect axis, or the least difference in the left and right poles, will induce a field through the coil, which can be in a direction or the opposite. I defy any one to correctly draw the line fields of such a setup...
Maybe there is something but the experiment should be much more mastered to draw some conclusion.
He reverses the polarity and the effect swaps between each compass.
QuoteMaybe there is something but the experiment should be much more mastered to draw some conclusion.
This is exactly my point that's all.
This is meant to be the starting point for the Hendershot generator, it's the primary principle and needs looking at.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.12.20, 09:54:31
...
This is meant to be the starting point for the Hendershot generator, it's the primary principle and needs looking at.
Ok. After some thinking, I guess that the point about the horse magnet positioned on the coil axis is a key point. Like an inverted pendulum that can fall left or right from its top equilibrium due to subtle mechanical imperfections, the horse magnet can induce a field that adds/subtracts/nullifies this one from the coil at the position of the needle, depending on subtle parameters that are not more accessible than those which would allow an inverted pendulum to stay vertically without falling.
So if we think that there is a new phenomenon here, its principle should be first guessed in order to build a very different experiment, avoiding the likely volatility of this one.
18th and 19th century electromagnetics investigators would not have produced so clumsy an experiment.
If they were trying to form a hypothesis, their test setup and layout would have been positioned on a precise grid with an identical compass on each side.
Excitation would be in the vertical plane from a battery so that it would affect each side in a like manner. (not clip leads hung to one side)
Adjustment screws would be provided to precisely tilt magnet and or coil in an attempt to null the experiment.
Data would be provided of position vs. effect.
Youtube videos are often extremely unscientific and disappointing. Good scientific method gets my attention.
The experimenter misses at least one or more variables, i.e., removing the horseshoe magnet altogether or replacing it with an equal mass / shape of unmagnetized iron.
Also note that the iron bar will become magnetized and affect the experiment. An air core coil should be tried to eliminate this variable.
The effect, if can be proven, may be related to the Hendershot device, this is to be determined.
@GK, thanks for that NMR video, great stuff!
@all,
I have some comments about the the compass spinning video. I remember that in my Physics class I took many years ago, we had a lab assignment to map the magnetic field around a bar magnet. The bar magnet was laid on the table and we placed small compasses around it and market the direction that it pointed and made a drawing of it. As you can imagine, the earth magnetic field plays a role and skews the magnetic field of the magnet, or vice versa, so that we don't get a symmetric pattern. However, the amazing thing that we all found out, and the teacher pointed it out, was the precise location where the two magnetic fields cancel, and at that location a compass would spin! I can see it now, just sat there spinning like crazy! You had to have it just right.
Now, I don't know if that represents free energy, because the compass had some energy as it was moved to that location, but if we could stop it from spinning while placed at that location, would it start spinning again by itself?
The reason the compass doesn't spin in a stronger field, even though it is jerked into the field, is because there are losses, and they depleate the kinetic energy it has, but at the null location, those losses are minimum, (the compass is not pulled heavily one way or another so the frictional losses in its bearings are minimal)
So to experiment along these lines, do the following:
1) get a bar magnet and place it on a large sheet of paper
2) take a small compass and move it around it and record the orientation
3) soon enough you will get a picture of where fields (earth and magnet) begin to be equal and perfectly cancel, so place the compass at this location
4) stop the compass somehow, and see if it picks up its spinning all by itself. If it does, then we have something worth pursuing.
EM
PS, see this link: http://www.wonderwhizkids.com/popups/1014.html (http://www.wonderwhizkids.com/popups/1014.html) the small compass would spin at the neutral points marked with an (X).
I thought of something today: Reciprocity
Think about this, if reciprocity holds and is applicable to the TPU, than we can feed it DC on it's output and it will resonate, which is the opposite of how we think about it now, meaning it resonates and by some process it creates a DC output.
So what does this mean? Well It fits the description of a negative resistor with a tank circuit in series. I have an idea on what to try.
EM
Quote from: Peterae on 2010.08.20, 09:19:51
It is also very likely SM used white or pink noise in his tests of his 3d spacial speaker system, i believe he discovered the kick using these tests on a spectrum analyser.
or "grey noise"https://www.google.com/patents/CA2135721A1?cl=en&dq=ininventor:%22Steven+D.+Mark%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CYLGU5KqJMKOyATDr4GQAQ&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBg
https://www.google.com/patents/US5487113?dq=%22steven+d.+mark%22+grey+noise&hl=en&sa=X&ei=e4LGU4uhGoaSyASovIJo&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAA
https://www.google.com/patents/EP0653897A2?cl=en&dq=%22steven+d.+mark%22+grey+noise&hl=en&sa=X&ei=e4LGU4uhGoaSyASovIJo&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ
Quote from: EMdevices on 2012.12.22, 16:28:52
PS, see this link: http://www.wonderwhizkids.com/popups/1014.html (http://www.wonderwhizkids.com/popups/1014.html) the small compass would spin at the neutral points marked with an (X).
In the picture with the magnet having its N pole pointing to geomagnetic North, on the lines running from the magnet's N pole to its S pole the arrows are the wrong way round. But the picture is correct in regard to its null points, just a silly drawing error. On the other picture the arrows are correct.
Smudge
Hallo to all,
I am new here to this forum but know the story of the TPU from the beginning on in overunity.com
The member Bruce_TPU of overunity.com built his own forum where members had to pay a monthly fee for about two years. I was one of them. The beginning looked good but in the last half year it was clear that he lost himself. He showed us the "brown paper" which is here also known. Among those drawings he showed us also pictures of the winding which he said came from SM just to get a glims how they could be coiled. Me my self never saw them before but he mentioned that this where tested from some members of overunity.com with no success.
They seems made 2009 somwhere in CA. So there is a possibility they came really from SM.
(https://s19.postimg.org/47nzzobyr/2009-12-22_17.11.29.jpg)
(https://s19.postimg.org/pk03b3lar/2009-12-22_17.11.46.jpg)
(https://s19.postimg.org/vjj910gpf/2009-12-22_17.11.37.jpg)
(https://s19.postimg.org/y3jh8utn7/2009-12-22_17.11.51.jpg)
(https://s19.postimg.org/ldf8vrloz/2009-12-22_17.12.20.jpg)
Is this picture known to you?
Best, rensseak
Welcome to the forum rensseak
Thanks for posting the picture of the coil, i have not seen this before.
I can't see the picture.
You cannot see the picture, strange
I will upload here
Thanks Peter.
I don't recall ever seeing these pictures.
JDO300 and I worked on these. It was another version of the ecd that did not work. It was another lead into the configuration.
See the wires wrapped around? These are actually flux field analogies of multiple frequencies.
As the two frequencies intermingle one gets nodes and antinodes.
While everyone is chasing the science and actual configurations, SM was escaping dissemination by mixing physical objects with operational features of the configuration.
He even gave very simple examples of what he was doing by talking about bullets, kicks, coils wrapped over each other.
We all got played. But he did spell out everything. Just replace items of the model with other labels and it becomes clear.
I broke the starting part of the code by identifying the stun gun operation and the iron wire cores publicly in 2006 when the fervor was just started taking off.
There were some things that were so blatantly clear it is pathetic. At that time we all had a sneaky suspicion that SM was viewing his handy work and the TPU puppets.
Bruce saw that I had garnered a following and he deemed he could too and make money. Unfortunately he does not know the TPU.
I have posted everything I know about the configuration. All the pieces and parts that Humpty Dumpty's men could not put back together.
The ECD was the model to show what different colliding and comingling frequencies can do. It was a more exact model of what Otto's one wire loop was showing.
That was all I needed to see to know what was being taught. The creation of the ECD pushed the model further into the public's view.
JDOs ECD blew a light bulb and astonished every viewer. This was mere a parlor trick. From other tests I had done we both knew the push from the scalar waves could be felt. Hell even doing personal destruction. Jason blew a light and some equipment. I burnt body parts and blew equipment.
This little cat and mouse game of SM sure did separate the creative learners from the poachers. The obfuscation led to SM being labeled a charlatan. Perfect. The idiots and poachers didn't get the answer for free and hung on doing their selfish damage.
Remember the pix of SM cutting coil sections out? How could such a low wire count been misconstrued to the number of wires that everyone was winding?
The Yellowstone caldera is going to erupt any time soon. No one has enough time...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4624494/Swarm-464-earthquakes-hits-Yellowstone-National-Park.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4624494/Swarm-464-earthquakes-hits-Yellowstone-National-Park.html)
Hi all
last conversation with SM in overunity.com ended in 2007, nearly 10 years ago but this picture was made in 2009.
Before "otto" a member of overunity.com died he gave me a text file with all the conversation between Mannix and SM. There it is stated that in 2009 Jack Durban cames forward with more info on August 20, 2009.
Also SM tried to replicate the TPU just to demonstrate it in a video. But he faild mainly because in lack of equipment.
Best Norbert
Bam... Right in the beginning he tells a major operational point:
QuoteIt seem to cancel as soon as it peaks
Can anybody see the 1/4 wave implication?
The TPU puzzle is only for those that know electronic areas of waves, antennas, audio, radio and tuning.
Otherwise the simplest of examples slide right on by.
Let me explain my SM logic rants from history to prove a point?
This statement
QuoteIt seem to cancel as soon as it peaks
And now say it in reverse logic:
QuoteAt the highest peak we cancel the flux
How is this done(for those who are not versed in electronics)? We stop the signal at the 1/4 wave or 90 degree mark.
The public release of the TPU puts George Soros bankrupt in an instant. There will be hell to pay.
A short pulse (spike) cancels as soon as it peaks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYepn6QDaTI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYepn6QDaTI)
@1 hour 0-20 seconds.
So here is a link to the book SM mentions.
http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/files/literature/Morgan_Jones_Valve_Amplifiers_Third_Edition.pdf
and here is an image of the text on page 262
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.06.22, 05:17:53
JDO300 and I worked on these. It was another version of the ecd that did not work. It was another lead into the configuration.
Hello giantkiller
do you have still pictures of your other version or just a drawing how it was coiled? I just want to compare. Thanks Norbert
Here ya go.
These are EMP generators just to let you know. You can bust incandescents and digital equipment easily.
If you make one and power it up. Dont grab it. that is why I made those stands.
And there are many more ways to make EMP generators.
Hello giantkilla
thanks for showing your work.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.06.25, 06:37:04
These are EMP generators just to let you know. You can bust incandescents and digital equipment easily.
If you make one and power it up. Dont grab it. that is why I made those stands.
But then you have also to know how to fire it up.
I can not remember seeing these pictures on overunity.com.
If this is your replication of the original seen in SM pictures, what makes you sure that your model would be the same? I meen, what I can see is 3 coils in series for the 3 frequencis and that maybe 3 times in 120°.
Best Norbert
Each coil layer is wound completely around the circumference.
The brown paper schematic uses cmos ICs to produce a very high turn off event in the switching due to exclipsing frequencies.
I left OU when a number of things happened that I did not like, i.e.:
The increase in bloat ads,
my posts that exposed alot of the TPU were pushed to the background. New content permits new ads,
Steven Greer contacted me and said he would like to be a representative to the public for me and my work. (Really? I don't need no steenking badges.)
All this represented three types of control that I did not and still don't agree with. I know what I did. I know what I know and I know what I got. I raised alot of eyebrows and the poachers were shopping. So I bailed on O.U.
The tests and information here, on O.U.R. are by far more impressive than the O.U. tests. Stephen would be extremely envious over the content here produced by all here.
When JDO300 got me onboard here I found a better home with a greater indepth knowledge and commitment. And a greater support level of experienced people.
Just that gave me the next mindscape to do even more adventurous experiments. And that led to even more. Its been great all along.
Free time equals free space equals free mind. The journey is not over yet.
My coils and I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atxUuldUcfI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atxUuldUcfI)
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.06.25, 17:38:50
Each coil layer is wound completely around the circumference.
Hello giantkiller
but that is not what I can see in the picture of SM. IMO it would be wrong to argue that what SM showed did not work.
This is what I see in SM picture and it could be that there is a third segment in the middle.
(https://s19.postimg.org/jzplsdvv7/coil-sample.jpg)
Cheers Norbert
Hello.
concernig Hendershot-setup there is another intersting demonstration of the same guy morpher44:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsT3KLZ0d2g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsT3KLZ0d2g)
Now what if earth-resonance-frequency 11.7728 Hz is used which this guy found who is persuing the replication of the wardencliff-tower ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJylD7xpEiU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJylD7xpEiU)
Mike
It is time for "Brutally honest listening".
SM stated he did not want to deal with copy cats(poachers) so he purposely changed the field descriptions to wires. Pure genuis. He gave away the farm! Many masses have fallen into the wiring scheme because that is all they understand (How many wires in the cut coils?). Many places where wires are mentioned is merely a depiction of field lines / flux lines. SM shows many, many things in a simplistic form knowing the poachers would emphatically wire something up only to be disillusioned. Again, perfect.
Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJsVSMQqCOM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJsVSMQqCOM)
If one can not work out a design or see the many possible configurations then sit on your hands and watch. It is that simple.
Here is your fortune cookie: Two sets of flux lines intersecting at < 90 degree incident angle, but not parallel.
This is the best I can do at this time. Otherwise all hell breaks loose.
This is the wrong house to find persons who sit on their hands,
very busy hands here...and very good at finding errors too
and not wasting time...
some of the best fellows a man could ever hope to find.
respectfully
Chet K
Hello giantkiller
SM did not tell so much about fields, not in overunity.com. I do not know what was going on since they left overunity.com to another forum.
We know that SM had to be carfull of what he gave away of information, not only because they observed him but also he doesn't want simple copying because of the danger of this thing. How could he be certain which member is experienced enough? And not to forget his experience in the past what people claimed about the TPU. Of course, there is a lot of space for everyones own interpretation given.
Best Norbert
Guys,
I'm not familiar with the reference to "brown paper" drawings. Anyone care to elaborate?
poynt99, hope this helps.
Thanks.
So, which TPU unit are these drawings supposedly of, and who drew them?
And where did they come from, Lindsay?
I can not remember the guy's name but JDO300 contacted me and asked for my insight on the schematic. The story goes that SM gave this schematic to the visitor while SM was on his death bed. I reversed engineered the schematic and came to the conclusion that this was a description of using cmos switching to achieve high speed shut off in a coil akin to what we use FETS for nowadays. Which is true beholding our past conversations about this subject. The field collapse is extremely fast. When the field collapse happens in a resonant field we witness anomalous results akin to quick discharges in a Tesla coil resonant field. To this day no one no where can dissertate whether the event happens when the discharge starts or when it ends. But the spark gap discharge gets amplified in the resonant field. Like T. T. Brown had shown, he capitalized on the pressure against an aluminium plate(massive belly flop off a high dive comes to mind).
I was thinking at the time this schematic and coil would be the end all to end all but it was only another example of extreme switching speeds. This little gem shows the field switching and collapse that is apparent in the TPU by the show of white sparks in the one demo video which is why I came up with my avatar of the circular Tesla coil. Don Smith's cart coil showed this also. Something about canceling the flux, no? Which could be another way of exposing pumping the field.
From the audience's final view we can only make headway by the physical measurements of height, radius, number of exposed components and the visible connection points which strictly leads to the math. SM did a wonderful job at focusing the audience on the measurements. He only hid the schematic even unto death, if he has died as of yet.
I will proceed forward with exposure of the T.P.U. given the time left.
There is a link in my signature. Wattsup has made a perceived wiring assembly graphic. Get it and we will traverse some new ground.
I will give steps to follow as to not be seen 'giving away the farm'.
The TPU as we have seen it is a horizontal Helmholtz of sorts.
The horizontal loops are 2 to 3 windings. I prefer two as the 15 inch diameter loop in series with one half of a center toroidal unit give us a resonant frequency of 5khz. Just like SM said.
The distance of the top and bottom loops apart from each other is a quarter distance of the diameter or 1/2 the radius.
The middle loop can be used to receive or excite the resonant Helmholtz loop.
The middle loop is part of the a Q multiplier circuit. Hence:http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi_w_X8wvjUAhXo8YMKHasNDDAQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uydudoktoru.com%2Fdosyalar%2Felektronik%2Ffmvericiarsivi%2FYeniArsiv%2F%3FSA&psig=AFQjCNEtKVw6FUQC22xWizbNxXPGNePsaA&ust=1499563302499025 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi_w_X8wvjUAhXo8YMKHasNDDAQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uydudoktoru.com%2Fdosyalar%2Felektronik%2Ffmvericiarsivi%2FYeniArsiv%2F%3FSA&psig=AFQjCNEtKVw6FUQC22xWizbNxXPGNePsaA&ust=1499563302499025)
I am sure you antenna freaks which find this quite an eye opener.
One can see instantly how the TPU and stun gun fit in with this.
Caveat: Nothing i post has not already been posted in the past. I will just pull things together so as to not be seen as pulling things out of thin air.
My assertion is that the q multiplier will cause an additive feedback mechanism to a circuit that will pump itself to a discharge level to cause a disruption in the middle of the Helmholtz resonance. When the discharge is over the Helmholtz will resume resonance. Balance. ...gnipmuhT
Part of the middle loop structure can be used to harvest the shaking going on. So too can any of the center toroids left over.
The TPU is one noisy structure. SM was able to peek and poke his way through all the twists and turns of the configuration. But the audience can not simply take his structural demo and 'WIRE' another based simply on visual. The final product is extremely measured and the audience has to approach their build with extreme accuracy. Or do as the previous builders, such as myself, and break apart the design and plow through the specifications of that part of the circuit / configuration. Which for the large of part the players no one was willing to do or they simply were lost in their abilities.
I eventually found the overwrap coil as twin lead. This fits the bill perfectly as seen in my last video. It is very apparent in some of SM's pictures. It performs as a wave guide funneling a pulse charge around the circumference of the whole unit, A circular Tesla coil too.
Like I previously posted, Extremely measured in physical stature, field configuration, resonance, and power withdrawal.
SM also added a cabinet magnet to the operation. This adds a greater weak field like a battery would do to make a field around a wire. But SM used iron wire in his units to transfer the bias field around the unit. The iron wire also lends itself to be a core that can be 'fished' anywhere in and around the unit. That is why he watched me in earnest. This was a real advancement in the breakdown of the configuration.
So the simplest, undeniable take away at this point is: cabinet magnet, iron wire, stun gun, q multiplier, Helmholtz resonance.
The one rule to rule them all is: Make no advertisements.
Many will argue but few will succeed.
This was back in 2009 with no message.
I took the wire pair to be speaker wire or twin lead.
This then substantiated specific connections of either the horizontal loops or the overwrap twin lead.
I saw the genius of it being both. Pretty simple, actually.
Which then lends itself to a helical antenna:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helical_antenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helical_antenna)
I loosely follow that but it strike my interest when you posted pair of wires connected to capacitor. Do you think it would be used as standing wave transmission line or antenna highly radiating to space (if so what is radiated ? radio or scalar waves ?)
Imagine that after that antenna (maybe in loop or loop-loop) there is a precious part you want to protect from the omnipresent oscillations going everywhere (no matter the conductor or dielectric) - what is proper way to suppress it ? Balun ? Damn, I'm not radio engineer.
I was recently asked 'How far have I come to completion?'
I responded that if an object in reality has 10 steps any designer will tell you the order of those steps and what transitions of step to step progress he has made.
When all steps are completed he has successfully completed wrapping the main engine of his thought in a complete transfer process that can then be given to users.
I stated that I had connected certain pairs of the design steps in a fashion of 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 5 to 6, and so on and that I would no way make all ten connections in a total serialized fashion. The breakdown of the T.P.U. as I have stated in all my posts over the years have specifically acknowledged any of the previously mentioned connections with none left out. The coup de gras would selling the units for big bucks. How foolish that would be, no?
So now I take the connection pairs and reproduce them in this Large unit I have made including Wattsup's wiring diagram as a whole unit. There will still be experimenting to weed out any misgivings about the protocol transfer between steps to be maintained. The previous step connections were done as an isolated test bed, i.e. Fast switching, resonant field manipulation, iron and copper wire coupling, stungun/q-multiplier/helical antenna circuit testing(this was the most fun I ever had).
How serious am I? Well the antenna tests cost me $250k. Thats right. A quarter of million in my last divorce. I EMP'd the neighborhood cable routers and wifi routers. Comcast reports ten homes that needed service. As the technician stated 'Odd too. There were no storms in the area'. Sometimes we ARE the fly on the wall. I told the ex-wife that maybe we should sign a prenuptial agreement after the fact. She in turn filed for divorce. Women hate these coils. So I had to take a hiatus to get situated and rethink my progress to presentation. I have nothing that does not make sense or is not realistic in my tests.
Enuff of the blather now. I gotta get my coil switcher up and running again for the umpteenth million time. At certain times it fails to work...
Quote from: forest on 2017.07.08, 20:25:52
I loosely follow that but it strike my interest when you posted pair of wires connected to capacitor. Do you think it would be used as standing wave transmission line or antenna highly radiating to space (if so what is radiated ? radio or scalar waves ?)
Imagine that after that antenna (maybe in loop or loop-loop) there is a precious part you want to protect from the omnipresent oscillations going everywhere (no matter the conductor or dielectric) - what is proper way to suppress it ? Balun ? Damn, I'm not radio engineer.
Finally! A bite on the hook without loosing any bait.
Quotemaybe in loop or loop-loop
As it has clearly occurred to you we got magnetic activity going on in the unit that has got to be channeled and not suppressed. Remember the amp meter SM stuck in the middle. He clearly did not close it on any specific wire which only points to the cacophony inside. Look up Otto's one wire loop example.
A review of the information might be in order.
In it I give an insight when the unit is cut in half vertically and horizontally to show the parallel coupling through out the unit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36RGonC_Zgs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36RGonC_Zgs)
I am in no way trying to gather a following or tout my skills. I am just putting the obvious two and two together.
MY D.O.D. top secret clearance is up May 31st, 2018. Until then I can not be implicated in W)renches of M)echanical D)illusion(that is code). So I will bide my time correctly as to not implicate myself. But I will continue throwing shoes in the gear works.
giantkiller
Don't be afraid, I'm not interested in TPU. I've got results in 2005 and it scared me so I turned it off for the next 12 years. Fortunately it was low power radiation like in Otto experiment. It all starts with Tesla method of conversion.
What I found is something discovered by Elihu Thomson in 1872, Edison in 1875 (etheric force) and used by Tesla to build his wireless transmission. I'm still trying to understand if this is radio waves or not. What do you think ?
I agree with co degare O0
Quote from: forest on 2017.07.08, 21:53:55
giantkiller
Don't be afraid, I'm not interested in TPU. I've got results in 2005 and it scared me so I turned it off for the next 12 years. Fortunately it was low power radiation like in Otto experiment. It all starts with Tesla method of conversion.
What I found is something discovered by Elihu Thomson in 1872, Edison in 1875 (etheric force) and used by Tesla to build his wireless transmission. I'm still trying to understand if this is radio waves or not. What do you think ?
You can have 30khz pulses which would been seen as radio waves. But the etheric force would be seen at the high transition of on/off state. That is what the gk4 did for damage. I was only running 40khz but the state transition is what smacked so hard.
Doesnt matter how many times per minute you jump in the water that kills. It is the landing straight out on the surface that can break a body.
Maybe I should make a statement here concerning the TPU and my involvement. I could care less about laying claim to the design or operation. At first I wanted just to have a running unit until I realized the danger it could bring. Just to get this thing out there is all I want. Having been involved with most everyone I was just cherry picking to solve the problem. Concerning my statements here about the operation: If it could be anything else then I am simply dumb founded and stupified then. The steps I have pulled together point to a circular Tesla coil where the balanced resonant fields are disrupted by another driving protocol. The resonance then pulls everything back into balance and the whole process starts over again.
It must be my English as i have a hard time following what you guys are saying.
What are these dangers and damage done you are talking about?
Is it the radiation (X-rays?) from this device or the sheer power it puts out (HV RF, HV DC)?
Could it not be scaled down to provide lower power initially?
Itsu
The risk of being electrocuted from thin air by thunderbolt. Didn't you read about Edison problems with turning on large DC generators ?
comment below the gk youtube video
"
co degare 3 years ago
offcourse tesla observed all of the things in his laboratory charged up but we now know that these things were charged up already because they exist in the earth's electric field but it became visible because he created potential differences between the charge on the metal and the voltage potential of the earth's electric field.
"
something like this
Here is the Wattsup wiring diagram.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KCwYSxcpjU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KCwYSxcpjU)
Using iron wire lets the core assume any shape. The iron wire loop shows this. So now there is a another way to store a charge and to pass this between the different transformer layers.
So certain parts were an air core and other parts a ferrous core. SM could have used steel sheeting in the small tpu and the large tpu. He certainly could have used steel spools on the open one. He did place magnets on all units.
In the small one the core would go all around. In the large one we see a cut in the back but in the rear shot we can not see all the way through the torn covering. The lack of view could have been caused by sheeting. He stuck a cabinet magnet on the side. As we can not see underneath the wrapping on the inside circumference there could have just as easily been iron wire looped. The steel sheeting would have been alot easier. I used plastic yard edging because it is easier. This still lends itself for a multi-loop iron core as I noted in the original video about this build.
Keeping things moving at a decent pace...
Addressing the regenerative feedback loop.
I wont belabor the point here but the object is to implant a malleable core as a flux guide path. This enables the configuration to alter the plane of operation through out the device.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_NsmAHJnUU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_NsmAHJnUU)
This test is driving the center toroid units to couple to the overwrap. I just threw the 470u caps for starters. I can see signature. Mission accomplished.
Next test is to drive the overwrap with resonance and scope the center toroids to see the signature. The activity of the overwrap should pump the iron wire core to the center toroids. So far very low current, I suspect. I am thinking of pushing the p2pv to 4k volts. I have amperage and electrostatic supplies.
The balancing/thumping should show up somewhere from that point onward as I focus on the specific input frequencies. We'll see.
Am open to any configuration or testing suggestions. This way nobody has to build.
Next test is to drive the overwrap with resonance and scope the center toroids to see the signature. The activity of the overwrap should pump the iron wire core to the center toroids. So far very low current, I suspect...
If the test signal is fed to this arrangement slightly off resonance, would you expect the nodes and antinodes to essentially move around the circumference. Assuming they do this then there will be a specific time in the period where the current is highest in the centre toroid and a greater magnetic field would be generated. As this is only a short burst of energy then could this be a kick to regenerate another cycle.
Thoughts...
QuoteIf the test signal is fed to this arrangement slightly off resonance, would you expect the nodes and antinodes to essentially move around the circumference. Assuming they do this then there will be a specific time in the period where the current is highest in the centre toroid and a greater magnetic field would be generated. As this is only a short burst of energy then could this be a kick to regenerate another cycle.
Thoughts..
Yep!
Because the helical wave guide transmitting antenna is in a circle the rotating magnetic field will approach the end of its device at a quarter wave length point of 90 degrees and emit into the starting point of its source at its zenith and kick itself into existence ad infinitum...
I had to find a way to incorporate the
Quoterotating magnetic field
text into the post. ;D
Rosphere at one point showed the double overwrap at the 1:00 to 2:00 clock position assuming the ring gap is at noon. This could be the antenna driver or the power receiver. As can be seen on this current unit that section of coil is there. This also aligns with Don Smith's cart large ring.
This unit will see all the activity at various points along the protocol.
On the 20170711 test the scope shows only the transients of the original input square wave signal. Obviously since there is no storage medium as of yet which would promote DC containment. That test used no resonance. I wanted to reverify the acceptance of noise and those levels across the device's test points. Those transients could also represent kicks. And rightly named since that is the only part of the original waveform promoting forward.
The second probe of the dual trace scope will allow the view of the phasing of the signal as seen from differing circumferential positions. Sounds like I am going for a doctorate or white paper here. ???
By controlling the size of the nodes and the placement of the center toroids we can clearly see the swiping that occurs:
Definitely a cause for thumping...
Another interesting commonality is the charge stored in the gap. Think multipactor and a small delay in the return energy. Looking at the overall field pattern it could be assumed that it'll take the form of a torus which is pulsing in amplitude.
There is a relationship between the radius and it's optimal operating frequency that we know of. I've tried to nail this as a velocity of sorts and get no fixed frequency. This suggests there's more operating than a simple magnetic rotation, hence the pulsating torus idea. The thought of DC as an output could be in the timing of the supposed rotation with the rising and falling field.
Thoughts...
Correct.
The device has two major field structures of horizontal and vertical that criss cross each other on a controlled sweeping fashion at 90 degrees and also the other myriad of incident angles that are very dynamic much like a spherical spark gap. The interactions of these activities also range in pressure. So it looks like a mobuis operational loop of transmission and reception. Not hard to see when looking at this current build of the LTPU. Tokamak comes to mind.
One of the other tests is to tank each overwrap using a different frequency just a bit off from each other creating a window. This would make sense as the LTPU seems to be a pair of transformers at this point. I have always had a suspicion that there could be 4 small variable capacitors in the LTPU black box for precision tuning.
Its beginning to look like the old school steerable antenna. Two 'transmitter towers' placed close together one being fed with a settable phase offset or delay. When viewed as in a PPI l, there exists addition and cancellation of what would have been an isotropic radiated image if a single transmission tower was used. This appears to give gain as a radiated figure 8 depending upon the phase difference. If this set-up used two independent transmitters with a 5 kHz frequency difference the rotation of the radiated energy would be at the same offset. This provides two arms of compressed radiation into the environment, a sort of pinching effect.
Thoughts on this appreciated.
Your resonant circuit above should have no extra load on the feed signal if the output is used to drive something. Its not supposed to see the load due to the 90 degree coupling. I think Kelly logged this decades ago if memory serves.
Quote from: szaxx on 2017.07.12, 06:15:44
Its beginning to look like the old school steerable antenna. Two 'transmitter towers' placed close together one being fed with a settable phase offset or delay. When viewed as in a PPI l, there exists addition and cancellation of what would have been an isotropic radiated image if a single transmission tower was used. This appears to give gain as a radiated figure 8 depending upon the phase difference. If this set-up used two independent transmitters with a 5 kHz frequency difference the rotation of the radiated energy would be at the same offset. This provides two arms of compressed radiation into the environment, a sort of pinching effect.
Thoughts on this appreciated.
Your resonant circuit above should have no extra load on the feed signal if the output is used to drive something. Its not supposed to see the load due to the 90 degree coupling. I think Kelly logged this decades ago if memory serves.
A quote from a definitive source thereby acknowledging what you spoke of. But driving the overwrap pertains to one or two interleaved helicals in parallel. Wow. I can see where the book quote would apply. What is not certain is the capping of the end of the wrap or if this does not matter if the tuning caps are connected are at the end. That would present itself as a reflective load also.
Back on the bench...
And you are correct about the load. I have not applied any configuration through mathematical analysis as of yet. Nor have I calculated any values so the load is necessary at this point. But past this time I will have to perform tuning to proceed. I can tune at the lower voltages then remove the load and raise the voltage.
A single side of the overwrap (L=38uh) is a circular helical 47 inches long with an elliptical cross sectional volume of 1 1/8 inches - 28 mm across inches by 4 inches - ~10mm in height. It is getting difficult to obtain a start in point. The two conductors are 1/2 inch apart but adjacent in the pathway.
By capping the end of the twin lead it then comprises a dual tank in opposing directions.
I decided on the easiest path to start.
I removed the 50 ohm load.
I terminated both overwraps with 1000uf each to ground and drove at the calculated 37.7khz with the inductance of L=38uf.
The signal shows up at the farthest half of the center toroids.
I found I have power supply hash so I will replace that and test on. This leads me to believe my test is invalid.
@szaxx
QuoteIts beginning to look like the old school steerable antenna. Two 'transmitter towers' placed close together one being fed with a settable phase offset or delay. When viewed as in a PPI l, there exists addition and cancellation of what would have been an isotropic radiated image if a single transmission tower was used. This appears to give gain as a radiated figure 8 depending upon the phase difference. If this set-up used two independent transmitters with a 5 kHz frequency difference the rotation of the radiated energy would be at the same offset. This provides two arms of compressed radiation into the environment, a sort of pinching effect.
Thoughts on this appreciated.
I like the old electrodynamics books using old school analogies.
If I have a coil and I apply a Direct Current the magnetic field evolves expanding outwards however it is coupled to the source which created it. Next I can take the same coil and apply a low frequency Alternating Current and once again the expanding field is still coupled to the source which created it. Now if I apply a high frequency AC signal or a low duty cycle pulsed DC signal the coil may produce electromagnetic waves moving away from the source which are now partially independent of the source which created them at some distance.
From these examples we could imagine that if a high magnitude singular electromagnetic pulse was emitted from our coil with no reversal this would resemble what many refer to as a "Soliton Wave".
QuoteIn mathematics and physics, a soliton is a self-reinforcing solitary wave packet that maintains its shape while it propagates at a constant velocity. Solitons are caused by a cancellation of nonlinear and dispersive effects in the medium.
--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton
Was it not Tesla who said the effects in question manifest themselves when a high magnitude discharge is released into the medium in which no reversal is allowed. In which case we are talking about a singular event which is completely independent from the source which created it. Very much unlike most peoples conception of electromagnetic waves and I have seen it first hand. It is unlike anything most here have probably ever seen and has specific properties unlike most here have ever experienced.
The concept is very simple, create a massive "slug" of energy which radiates away from the source and the moment it leaves the source it becomes completely independent from the source just as Tesla said. Understand this is not Transformer action nor is it a Hertzian antenna this technology produces Solition Waves completely independent from the source which created them. This is why the energy does not diminish with distance from the source as the wave packet carries it's own energy within itself becoming a source in itself.
it does not diminish in distance because it is vibration of ambient medium O0
but I'm sure you know that Allcanadian ;)
Stan Deyo with his smoke ring demo gives a great example of this soliton.
I also wonder if the stinging impacts from EMPs are minute versions of this.
@forest
Quoteit does not diminish in distance because it is vibration of ambient medium
To be honest what you said means nothing to me because it has no context. It's like saying the sky is blue because water is wet.
Here is an analogy of what I am trying to say. Now if water was energy poor old Mr. Hertz would build a big old sprinkler which sprayed water all over the damn yard just to wet a single shrub in the corner. Obviously this is really stupid and very wasteful because we don't want to "wet" everything with energy just one thing at a distance... our shrub. So how do you do it?, well we could use a nozzle which uses a stream of water to wet only one area however our water stream also disperses with distance so how do we do it?. Well the answer is on my hot tub.
You see my hot tub has six LED backlit laminar flow nozzles which produce a laminar flow or steam of water which holds it's form over great distances as in the pic below(No that is not my hot tub in the picture). Not only does the water stream hold it's form but the water also acts just like a fibre optic cable which is why the whole stream of water is illuminated... kind of cool. What most people don't know is that if you chop or pulse the laminar flow you get a singular slug of water like a bullet, not a stream, which carries light energy with it internally for a split second before dissipating.
Think about it...
The slug of water is a non-reversing soliton wave, the light bound within and carried by the slug of water is energy. Obviously the light energy carried within the water cannot reverse or return to the source because it is now a singular entity in itself. Thus energy can be carried almost any distance and not disperse or dissipate so long as certain physical properties or constraints are present. Now all you have to do is put on the old thinking cap and connect the dots of how my analogy relates to what Tesla was saying almost 100 years ago. Were not going to find answers in a textbook gentlemen were going to have to think for yourselves, open our eyes and look to nature.
Radiating energy outward like a water sprinkler and hoping to transform a small fraction of it is not the answer... it's a little insane.
For those who may be curious about Laminar Water Jet design.
(http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/landscaping/diy-laminar-water-jet.html)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7bzE1E5PMY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7bzE1E5PMY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k5IWlVdMbo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k5IWlVdMbo)
Quote from: forest on 2017.07.13, 18:00:35
it does not diminish in distance because it is vibration of ambient medium O0
This is interesting in itself. In water as an ambient medium, the undulations produced from a stone drop continue over distance from the event centre. However they also appear to stretch in length. Bearing this in mind, it would be sensible to assume the same for any transverse wave in its respective medium.
A stretched out wave has a longer time period hence a longer wavelength
, a lower frequency per se. This may be stored energy in the wave maintaining its form as it increases one size. The energy stored in a wave is higher with frequency.
The large TPU now in mind, does the 5khz apply or is this reduced in accordance with the lager size re the smaller units?
More turns suggest a lower frequency is applied to something. Assuming the 5 kHz is a mandatory operational characteristic , the circumference versus resonator frequency can be estimated from a known value if we have that information to hand.
This will clear some of the way forward in assimilating a practical outlook in its internal operating structure.
My thoughts are the 5khz is mandatory and the velocity of the waves or fields within dictates this too. Naturally we can make a better estimation of this velocity towards the optimal frequency to use for a specific circumference. This would be a great step forwards in creating a model to compare to any info we have at present. It may aid the design of a continuous outer loop that possesses no requirement for lossy capacitor loads and their phase changing properties.
An exact frequency isn't too important, the relationship to each of the coils is. If a motional magnetic field is the philosophers stone and it's produced by two standing waves created by different frequencies the resultant interference pattern may be worth investigating.
Somebody explained it with properties of ambient medium which is nothing more then Earth magnetic field. It doesn't respond to slow changes but it's like a water surface to the abrupt changes - try to slap water surface - it reacts.
By stun gunning a resonant toroid field the tpu becomes an interface to impact the ambient medium just like a Tesla coil does, i.e. slapping water. Smacking a water surface with a wide board really doesn't move any water but the shock wave/transverse wave can be felt on the sides of the container and in the board. And done correctly can break both of your hands just holding on to the board.
What isn't apparent in the TPUs are the large number of windings necessary to create the secondary coil of a Tesla coil thereby negating the use of a capacitor on the secondary. As we know the Tcoil has these large number of windings done correctly to give maximum resonance that creates the virtual capacitor in the ambient medium. I believe the capacitance is the boundary of the ambient medium and the resonant toroid. This is what my main goal is at this point. Getting this done will provide a platform to the step of progression. I previously used sine waves through an audio amp and measured with an SWR the 7hz field around the coil. This was an undulating field and not a resonant field. But the pressure is there.
But resonantly driving the two sides in the megahertz with a difference of 5khz will create the tool to impact the ambient with 5khz. An individual drive of 5khz by itself does nothing to the ambient.
Looking at transverse waves mechanically, we'll use a long piece of garden hose used for example.
We can tie one end and then hold the other with just enough energy to lift it clear of the ground. Then with a sharp up/down (transverse) swing we'll notice this energy travel along the hose similar to a ripple on water. It'll hit the other end and return, diminishing each bounce. This takes time and the reaction is relatively slow. However if we pull the hose (longitudinally) directly away from the tied end we then run into a different circumstance. There's little to no detectable transverse waves and an instant force on the tied end which travels faster than the transverse wave previously applied.
The energy supplied at the tied end is useable in a transverse wave if the absorbing apparatus if finely balanced yet the energy supplied by the longitudinal pulling is almost instant and far more effective and efficient at supplying a sharp kick.
Electrically, it'll be difficult to directly measure with conventional tools and we may see a transient or something if it reacts to the phase of a resonant system for example. However an avremenko plug could be used as this works and maybe a useful tool worth of experimentation.
Further reading;
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/frolov1.htm
@szaxx,
Yes. I have used that. The load slows the transients down to a visible level. I use LEDS as the diodes.
The AVplug will not work well for small voltage variations because of the .7v forward bias of the diodes.
Germaniums work well too as these are the preferred unpowered radio detectors which oddly enough operates similarly like an AVplug.
I also use the scope probes set off to the side.
But this method of detection is for transients of excessive noise creation.
Ambient perturbations detection.
I read an article a few years back that the ultra low threshold mosfet diodes can operate with a forward bias as low as 0.0002 V. At the time I was using an external bias to take both diodes and mosfet diodes to the brink of the zero threshold barrier. A great deal of stuff is happening at the ultra low signal levels most people never see or hear. I had one little circuit that could detect a person walking on the carpet over 50 feet away in another room and it made a high pitched raspy whoosh...whoosh... whoosh sound.
QuoteZero Threshold MOSFET
Advanced Linear Devices Inc (ALD) created an industry breakthrough Zero Threshold MOSFET device introducing a new level of precision in analog design that makes 0.1-Volt circuits possible for the first time.
The Quad/Dual N-Channel Matched Pair Zero Threshold MOSFETs are matched at the factory using ALD's exclusive EPAD® CMOS technology to achieve the industry's lowest threshold voltage of 0.0V with an exceptional range of variation from 0.01V to -0.01V and an offset voltage of just 2mV. These MOSFETS advance the state-of-the-art in small signal transistors with a level of precision that opens the door to micropower technology never before achievable. For example, basic amplifier applications, operating at supply voltages of only 0.20V and power dissipation of less than 1mW are where zero threshold MOSFETs will revolutionize current day analog circuit design.
http://www.aldinc.com/ald_zerothresholdmosfet.php
In the literature it was said Moray developed a device which could "hear" voices from miles away and be tuned in both direction and distance. Keep in mind this was a few years before he built his 20 KW FE device. One has to wonder what he heard which led him to believe he could build such a powerful machine... the universe?.
@GK
Further to my PM, this post has little Spin Conveyance in it but will hopefully give you what I really mean in terms of trying simple builds.
Regular transformers need a primary, an iron lamination core and a secondary. We know since 150 years this works. The primary impulse really bounces off that lamination and the secondary really likes to read off of those laminations and mimic it in kind. We have been doing that for ages so we know a thing or two about empirical coupling.
Iron Wire is like an iron transformer lamination, in the form of a wire. The good thing about iron wire is you can pulse it directly without having to wind a primary and the secondary will still see the iron and mimic it in kind. So MAYBE SM just did away with the copper primary and can now use the iron wire as the primary AND the lamination. Except in the FTPU the outer rings where all together under the outer secondary so this caused a wide opening of bad proximity as inactivity on the secondary. SM did not know it but half that iron wire is near dead and never moves while the other half expends over 75% of the total impulse. If coupling is proximity related, then a direct secondary on the iron wire is best so..........
So here is what needs to be tried and is very simple.
Take a two foot length of iron wire that is or is not coated. You just made a primary coil plus the lamination. Now wind a secondary wire any size as long as it is insulated like magwire, but not too thick either. Wind it in 1/2" to 1" turns so that the winds do not touch each and are far enough apart so each wind becomes it's own sensor point without inter-turn cancellation. Wind only half the iron wire length so leave the second half empty. Now take that straight length of iron wire with that secondary and make a 2.25 turns ring with it. So now you have your ring with one side that has one iron wire and one secondary connection (P1 & S1), a secondary connection at the iron wire center point (S2), and a lonely iron wire at the other end (P2).
The make break has to be at P1 and permanent side at P2. You can tank S1 and S2. So you pulse the iron wire and scope the primary and secondary while you hunt the resonance frequency of the primary and this is the first place to start looking at the SM TPU. The FTPU had two of these, but SM's mistake was to wind the secondary over all the turns of the outer ring which means the second half of that ring will still suffer from Half Coil Syndrome and thus take up very precious space which kills proximity coupling. I think that is why the FTPU would not work upside down because upside down the magnet is under the rings versus ground.
While experimenting you can reverse the connections of P1 and P2 just to see and show the differences.
If you take that ring and form it into a 1" wide rectangle, you just made the 1st of maybe 500 of these stacked sideways in the LTPU and running two sets with those two toroids.
For the 6TPU he left the rings as is and horizontal while he staked them to the height of the 6TPU, about 2" if I remember correctly. Take the circumference of the LTPU divided b 2" and this will give you how many 6TPUs could be in the LTPU.
In this manner all those rings or ring sets are run in parallel with each KICK adding. You can then cut a pie piece out of an MTPU and make a few bypass connections and bingo it will still work just like he showed.
This is the real place to start. The outcome may be slightly different after fine tuning and maybe finding that wire IS really important so wire type. etc.
You guys need to forget about a big 17" wide loop doing ONE THING that produces all that power. Does a flower blossom with only one atom? No it takes a community of Atoms to make a flower. Same for the TPU. 1 x 1' and 1000 x 1' can only imply major parallel build.
SM found one effect. Not two or three. He used that same one effect in all his TPUs. So that one effect cannot be easily scalable, like because he made a 6TPU and the LTPU, we then think the ring diameter can change. Bigger ring will change optimal frequency that may not be a frequency conducive to the frequency to iron wire to coupling secondary effect.
The above topology can fit into all the TPUs and calls for multiples. The toroid could be a simple matching transformer that builds up a gain coming from each of two rings in the FTPU that then feed the pulse back.
I had done a diagram about the FTPU long ago so i took that drawing and modified it quickly just to give you a visual of the ring and secondary.
Hope this is not too out of your present orientation. Just wanted to maybe sway you and others away from this big loop business which for me is not viable and counters everything in SC while the explained method is more in line with SC. We can talk about pulsing next if you want. Also please know I am not saying SM TPU started on its own without a battery. There must be a battery to start the process but the device keep the process going while the battery drain would be minimal.
wattsup
@WAttsup,
I am tracking with you here.
This looks similar to the other tests I did that you posted. I just hope this one is not another similar events.
Your last one got me divorced, cost me 250k and blew up the neighborhood. :o
I will make this build and test. Any event is always well worth it though. O0
@GK
Mam oh man, how the hell did you lose 250k?
In such a setup with only one Primary ring and one secondary wind as I had shown in the previous post, this can be tried with a simple straight iron wire but the idea of turning it into a ring is to be able to influence all the degrees of the ring with one added magnet as he did in the FTPU. The secondary is wound right on the iron wire so that we capitalize on proximity at all times.
Yes, previous FTPU drawings I had done showed the iron wire or aluminum wire wound 2.25 or 2.5 turns (primary) and then the secondary was would over all the turns. This was way before I found Spin Conveyance which now says to me that the last half of the primary being pulsed will have no change in polarity hence practically no sway in the nuclei, hence no conveyance and hence it is just there reducing the overall proximity of the secondary to the real active half of the primary. If the Secondary was closely wound over all the length of that 2 foot length of iron wire, even with no activity in half the primary, this would do what?. Increase voltage and decrease amperage. So winding the secondary on only half of the primary will produce less voltage but more amperage which is what we want.
You see, if you had let's say 30 rings in the 6TPU, that would be 30 primaries in parallel but the secondaries can be grouped in less parallel sets then those sets in series to bring up the voltage while you are getting maximum amperage out of the output as well.
You do not need 30 rings right now, just one to get some basic data.
1) Pulse primary with the make-break on the primary side that has the secondary. That is the half of the primary that will change with the pulse and return bias when the pulse is off (change). Change is what the secondary wants to see.
2) Pulsing can also be one wire, but in general you will scope the primary to find what the primary resonance frequency is. You can use just the probe to not create added influences. At resonance the primary will have fewer atoms involved but each will sway more then any other, plus the energy consumption of the pulse will drop to its lowest level at resonance. By bringing down energy consumption to a minimum (resonance), this helps the overall output to pass the COP or get very close. You will be surprised how efficient this is.
3) Then it is time to tank the secondary and see how much output can be produced.
4) From there you can bring in a magnet and see what the effects are.
Question to ask: Does a magnet have a resonance and if so, what if the primary was pulsed close to the magnets resonance where once the magnet is approached, the primary frequency close to the magnets resonance frequency would increase the overall intensity of the iron wire rebias which produces greater nucleic sway and hence which imparts greater coupling to the secondary then the energy used to produce. It is at that level that the OU can find a place to exist and not in so many of our regular standard EE postulations.
This is a very simple build but it has the chance of showing some good results and plus it is easy enough that more @members can do their own similar tests and try variations. It will be in those variations that all of a sudden something will pop up as "out of the ordinary". Maybe adding a small capacitor like those yellow ones in the LTPU are obviously used on the pulse side and not as any capacitor tank,like the two other bigger caps in the LTPU?
The FTPU was the first and it should have remained the main focus of all our attention for all these years since it was the most open build. If SM started with the FTPU, that 's where we should have started and stayed as well.
What I am trying to say is pretty blunt I guess. The advent of experimenting with an LTPU sized build and coming to any functional discovery will be so remote that the effort is almost lost from the start because of all the potential build variables. It's like looking for a needle in a big hay stack. @BruceTPU tried the big one but again, all you need is one mistake and the whole shebang becomes a bust from the start but you will not know it. So why not just reduce the hay stack with the smallest analog, find the functional basis and from there, just increase the basis numbers in parallel.
Once SM found the effect in bench trials and built it in the simplest FTPU, he then built the STPU, 6TPU, MTPU and LTPU in the FTPUs' image. He did not reinvent something new at each build. He just deployed the same effect, the same topology but in different ratings and formats. We are the ones who have been jumping to so many conclusions and theories (me included in we). We took the whole gambit to all extremes but through all that, I was stuck like everyone else with Standard EE as the guiding base. It is only when I discovered the SC concept that I could start looking at the FTPU with more of an outside looking in. The FTPU as it was shown had a flaw that SM mentioned. That flaw can only be because the secondary was wound over all the ring turns whereas according to my best estimate, my previous post explains how it should have been built to eliminate that flaw and I am sure the SM found that out but could not show it since it was soooo simple you would laugh.
wattsup
I have always understood and believed this:
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Steven%20Mark/ftpu/ftpu-coil-anim1.gif (http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Steven%20Mark/ftpu/ftpu-coil-anim1.gif)
to be true in all TPUs.
There is beauty in symmetry.
1 Quote from wiki -
Skin depth also varies as the inverse square root of the permeability of the conductor. In the case of iron, its conductivity is about 1/7 that of copper. However being ferromagnetic its permeability is about 10,000 times greater. This reduces the skin depth for iron to about 1/38 that of copper, about 220 micrometres at 60 Hz. Iron wire is thus useless for A.C. power lines. The skin effect also reduces the effective thickness of laminations in power transformers, increasing their losses. Iron rods work well for direct-current (DC) welding but it is impossible to use them at frequencies much higher than 60 Hz. At a few kilohertz, the welding rod will glow red hot as current flows through the greatly increased A.C. resistance resulting from the skin effect, with relatively little power remaining for the arc itself. Only non-magnetic rods can be used for high-frequency welding...
Elsewhere I've read the skin effect for iron wire can be decreased, this is done by applying a very strong magnetic field. If we are pulsing the iron with a high intensity magnetic field the BH losses are reduced under the influence. Once the pulse ends the iron returns to its lossy state. Two things here may be of importance. A ferromagnetic inductor will expel it's stored energy when saturated this effect may be partly responsible for the kick and the poor conductivity of iron will create heat at high frequencies.
Thoughts.
This config is driven differently than a conductor or transformer. It is a spiral wound helical antenna also. A cornucopia of a build here.
Something else here: The promise of a fulfillment of the Kunel patent is achieved by the reverse placement of the cabinet magnet. The primary is driven one way against the magnet polarity. The magnet resumes balance when pulse is off, possible thumping.
SM added a cabinet magnet across the two center toroid terminals on the FTPU. That means one of two things or both.
1:) The iron wire ends are attached to the terminals
2:) The close proximity to the center toroid is needed.
SM used the magnet to reduce the skin effect? And in using iron wire we get a conformable core as a conductor.
The TPUS did get warm.
@Szaxx: what did you mean by a high intensity field. My drive is max 20 volts at 5 amps, 100 watts.
The caps in the tpu look like mixed dielectric, these were used in electronic ignition systems from the 70's. They're likely still in use in let's say a stun gun. The discharge of hundreds of volts into a few turns would supply a very strong magnetic pulse into the core. Should the core be ferromagnetic, it'd absorb the discharge until saturation then release this charge adding a pulse to the magnetic field already present. (BH curve saturation) Its acting as a transient generator. This method is in use for pulse sharpening previously posted some time ago.
I'm looking at the transient being increased by natural occurrences that may have been missed. Previous thoughts were the centre toroids being utilised for this property and the loops collecting the energy from the transient. However this would be received by the whole units wiring allowing the time delay created by the toroids offset from centre.
As you have used a stun gun to pulse the experimental setup electrically, this magnetic method is used to charge permanent magnets instantly (although the energy required is hundreds of joules for magnets).
Low power AC will show the resonant frequency so the pulse width can be calculated to match the timing of the first quadrant at resonance. Even a small coil will kick like hell if you match it correctly.
For example, a 2 uf 1000v mixed dielectric cap charged to 650 volts will kick out 40KV from an old ignition coil designed for 12 volts. The energy input is less than .5 joules in this example. The output is very strong.
It works on resonance like a Tesla coils output from it's pulsed primary.
Ignition devices are also available for industrial 20KW+ xenon tube igniters to tiny ones used in gas oven igniters. They're similar to a neon in oscillator configuration but drive magnitudes more power and strike at specific voltages (if you're unaware of them).
All you need is a voltage inverter, diode, cap, ignition device and connections to the coil to pulse. No thyristor and associated sensitive electronics required.
The shockwave from a spark gap rocks the balance of a ferrous field on a wire and the magnet. Magnacoaster's device does just this.
But I will start at the bottom with pulsing the primary, then adding a magnet, then switching the magnet poles around.
This build is a fine way to acquire another route using a softer approach.
Then we can switch to the spark gap if need be.
I am wondering if using a spark gap to unbalance the field produces less heat. Magnacoaster never complained about heat. Mueller never did either. One of Mueller's backyard demos device cut the field with aluminum slicers.
I'll read more on magnacoaster if time permits. The Hendershot device heats up and I'm sure this is due to high currents at nodes
The heating may be inherent if the power level is high enough and RF is present in the iron wire, lamp wire I find is attracted to neo magnets indicating a magnetic coating. Its not as strong as iron per se but it's magnetic properties may be significant.
The twisting of the secondary around the iron wire may give better results if we use the golden ratio, ie 1.6... times the wires circumference apart as in a stretched spring. Remember the corkscrew nails in the Chicago TV event? This is important in its own way for magnetics although you know this too. Winding direction being a copy of the nails pulled from the wall.
I would expect less heat from transiental l l so
pulses in iron in comparison to a sinusoidial carrier as the core would saturate before eddy currents could flow assuming the pulse is just strong enough to saturate.
Lots of experimentation is called for and the results logged. With analysis we may notice the philosophers stone revealing itself.
Once back at base (working away at the moment), I'll construct two identical cores with the secondaries spiraled in opposition. Perhaps something will reveal itself.
Executed current frequency sweep of primary from 1k to 5M at 1k steps at 12 volts.
Had previously posted this and since corrected the situation:
QuoteAttached is setup. I added the 50 ohm to match impedance.
I have always had trouble with this. I can never get a good square out. I attach a load in this case a solid state relay designed by JDO300. I have 4 of them and they are bullet proof. But when the input signal is not clean digital problems arise, like gate chatter. This is where the signal jitters and there is never consistency in the scope trigger lock. I have been suspicious of the quality of operation from this generator. 555s are of no use because they too add jitter.
So without a clean driver I can not get to any test results.
The generator signal out degrades under many a differing load scenario. But without a good reference I have no way of telling what a good signal from this device should look like. Impedance matching is a stumbling block to me. This is only with square waves on this device. I get better performance with sine wave out. But that is a different story.
There are many a good signal generator out there for a low price but I don't know if mine has problems or if I am using correctly.
Started out driving the primary in reverse of instructions. Corrected. Its amazing how things work when correctly put together...
Since removed the 50 ohm.
@20200hz and 12 volt, 5% duty cycle driver signal the primary shows 188 volts. Secondary shows 64 volts. Scope probes are set to 10x setting.
Will tank secondary for 20200hz resonance.
But then this bump shows up:
I worked with JDO300 and built a special controller to get this.
@100khz with the signal is attenuated down there is a large random spike that just randomly appears. I freeze the genny and the spike goes away.
I have switched to the HV scope probes. I see EMPs.
In this wind I did not take notice as to the direction of the primary or the secondary. The secondary goes clockwise from the start of the iron wire to the middle. Simple build tho. Can be reproduced.
I have always wondered if the TPU is magnifying the ringing from switching noise.
Are the many configurations adding resistance or storage that execute their function of medium to cause a collection so that the next stage of operation can capture that? Some level of EMP sustain and collection. If so then all testing should be aware of the potential damage during intermediate builds and testing.
I have switching artifacts that I am wondering should I diminish or transgress to some lower level of apparency?
Or tank the secondary to match the secondary.
Channel 1 is the iron wire and 2 is the driving pulse?
Theres a nice transient/kick on this single arrangement I hope I can reproduce it too. Pulsing into a group of identical coils will be interesting. The peak value and the width being questioned.
The magnet is too weak to saturate the cores, remember the magnets in the stromerzeuger and magnetapparat? They were quite unconventional and apparently required for a functional unit.
The storage or creation of the extra energy may be linked to the aspden effect. I have a setup somewhere thats been put on ice for a while, there's nothing in standard model physics that can explain this effect that I know of yet it exists. Grumpy mentioned this too a while ago.
I would lower the input power until the artifact just appears. If it has some unknown side effect like floyd sweets device, its better to play the safety card.
The trick is not worry about saturation on such a thin core.
The saturation is part of the magnetic field that we want to break or snap in some way. This can be violent or massaging in some way, because the preexisting field will rumble back into balance. And we can catch that.
The Kunel based devices all do this. This is the key. Just pick your medium which lends itself to a certain configuration.
Gunderson talks about it too.
What I find interesting is that no matter how many times I pull something out of thin air, some are for and some are against.
This relates to certain items mentioned that trigger experience or ignorance. People only want to gravitate to what they are familiar with. This was Tesla's greatest battle with his enemies. And we have all seen this percolate up from the OU masses too. One can not simply say 'Its the same everywhere' when each configuration is clearly made of something different. And that something is what the masses split up into groups about. To feel secure in their diatribe against any outsiders at all times securing their own ignorant plight.
I say add something positive or sit on your thumbs. A cohesive group coalesces based upon a common goal.
I am not poking at anyone in particular here. I just had this thought and needed to write it down.
I was always just thrilled knowing all the ways that were and are still promoted about how this thing works. Fascinating and titillating.
Back to the game that is afoot...
Which begs the question: Can the switching noise be complimentary to the goal of flexing the magnetic bias of the weak field? This sounds idiotic in normal electronics but could be important here. Because I noticed that as I sweep the freq range that switching bump never goes away as long as the next pulse stays out of that range of the bump. And the bump sine wave is in the realm of the length of the secondary and a very small cap to tank. And the switch noise is free.
Looks like the secondary is in the nanohenry range and the bump is 5Mhz.
One stop shopping...
I tanked the secondary for two separate frequencies:
1: The driving frequency of 20.2khz. No changes noted
2: The switching noise. Was able to slightly alter the ringing. Solved: Major ground issues.
Another idea: Ottos' one wire solution
Because this one is the one that blew up the neighborhood routers. And the scale is the same as this build.
This build produces kicks of 190vac. A regular EMP producer. The two foot wavelength equals 483.87Mhz. 1/4 lamba = 120.96Mhz. The total wind is tanked.
My signal generator only goes up to 1Mhz. No where near the necessary frequency of the wavelength. Finding the resonance at the higher freqs stops me from pursuing any further tests. Unless I am thinking all wrong.
Back at it: Had to hit the blocking wall of stupidty to shake the mental infestitude off.
In searching Nuclear Magnetic Resonance I find:
QuoteThe two fields are usually chosen to be perpendicular (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpendicular) to each other as this maximizes the NMR signal strength. The resulting response by the total magnetization (M) of the nuclear spins is the phenomenon that is exploited in NMR spectroscopy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance_spectroscopy) and magnetic resonance imaging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging). Both use intense applied magnetic fields (H0) in order to achieve dispersion and very high stability to deliver spectral resolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_resolution), the details of which are described by chemical shifts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_shift), the Zeeman effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeeman_effect), and Knight shifts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_shift) (in metals).
I believe this is the explanation for the operation of the GK4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_field_nuclear_magnetic_resonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_field_nuclear_magnetic_resonance)
And then I find this joule:
I forgot the addition magnet test.
Had left scopes connected. Will test in proximity.
Right now the iron wire ends are stripped and connected directly to the magnet. Will add paper insulators as a test.
Using 12vdc. Will test with 48vdc. This has been a crucial voltage before in most of my tests that produced extreme results. I am getting the 12vdc from an ATX pwoer supply. The 48vdc will come from my microwave transformer supply. The idea is to affect the magnetic current.
Artifact in the coil pulse at a 12vdc supply level.
The BREMF shows 60 volts.
Resonance at 833,333hz. At lest this is what the ring down shows.
Magnet in iron wire loop makes no difference yet.
Will tank the secondary to the 833khz.
Do you have a 6 X 4 inch magnet you could use? The perpendicular applied field would be more uniform. I'm almost ready for my initial tests
I have a car in the air at the moment with a seized driveshaft. Its stuck in the diff which is unheard of. This is another time wasting job getting in the way of experimentation lol.
The assumption of 1/4 wave at 120.96 MHz may not be the correct frequency if skin effect is taken into consideration for iron, Aluminium is a little lower and typical for antennas however we are looking at magnetics which changes things.
Sorry to hear about the driveshaft. I hope if doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
I have a 15 pound block of 100 cabinet magnets. With paper tape I can make any type of shape.
A 6 x 4 x .25 would equate to 12 x 4 or 6 by 8 plate of separate magnets.
They are polarized as each large side is a pole.
I can see where you are headed with this.
A large bias area to filter ambient environmental EM noise like a buffer or a gelatinous like field overriding the external activity.
I can even build a total magnetic enclosure like miniature Tokamak. Muwuahahah, as they say.
Hmm. I wonder what the signature of a BEMF would be like with the coil inside?
I have never seen anything like this on any overunity site.
First initial run sweep 0 to 10mhz sine using direct gen output. A steady increase in amplitude. Next one when time allows will start at 9mhz and go to 20mhz. The pulse width range isn't up to this test unfortunately.
However with a 1 sec per div time base with no signal I see plenty of spikes going positive and negative. Only low level but way above ambient noise floor.
The car, aarrrggghhhh. Bearing and wishbone are being done too to savefuture hours in the rain lol.
My ATF05C genny does square 0 - 1Mhz or sine to 5Mhz.
Am possible looking for a higher frequency one. My scope only goes to 20Mhz. Might have to upgrade that too.
In all the field disruption configurations I have never seen sine waves used.
Might have to upgrade...
Have you seen the price of high end scopes? Scarey lol.
I'll build a class d amp and use this to chop the triangle wave into pulses. Hopefully the output has a full range stable voltage level. A sweep should identify any drop-off. I need to build/find a MOSFET output stage to use too.
Then the fun can start.
JDO300 designed and sold me 4 solid state relay boards SSR3A using fet switches.
I have the original p4n150's for 1500v. The max switching is 769Mhz. I can replace with irf840's if need be.
These are bidirectional.
I built numerous fet switching boards myself. All worked and are incredibly cheap to do. If you look across the internet you'll see very high prices.
Now I am off to build my mini Tokamak. Everything is a good test.
DaVinci would be proud of my garage and inventory...
Quote from: GiantKiller
Now I am off to build my mini Tokamak. Everything is a good test.
DaVinci would be proud of my garage and inventory...
Some of us are envious and proud of your work too!
May your project be a smashing success: brilliant
energetic fire and smoke with 100% controllability! ;)
OC2(Obsessive, Compulsive Creativity). It's not just a gift. Its a lifestyle. Buyaaah!
Maybe a bit OCD too with a touch of spaz thrown in.
I should have some IRF840's left with the driver chip too. Not used them since I moved house years ago. I actually know where were last placed and should have em to hand.
If you have time, connect your sig gen and leave it switched off. Set your scope to 1 sec per division and increase the sensitivity just to see if you too see these transients. There's nothing in my local area that uses enough power from the mains to corrupt it this way but there is electronic ballast in use in the lighting circuits.
I should have grabbed a pic thinking about it, perhaps tomorrow when I set it up again. I have an engineer bemused by the coil arrangement. He thinks it's going to be a waste of time as no transformers exist with this construction. Classic standard model idealist, he's a laugh but it's piqued his interest. It shouldn't work the same as bees shouldn't fly lol.
Nice stack of magnets, I've two 6 X 4 X 1 number 8 mix carefully bubble wrapped, they're not as powerful as new ones, I'll blame the pole shift for this. They're for another toy later, it'll make a sweet change from the rings in our experimental setup. I have a few neos too, a couple need a nuke to pull em off thick steel especially if you clip them so they stick north to north on a central steel sheet of the correct thickness.
Sine testing is more for resonant frequency identification. It should give an indication of the Q factor if any. From this a pulse width can be derived to give EMF characteristics. The length of the coils wire is important, I may construct another ring with this in mind. Two equal lengths with the copper wound on a little tighter may be interesting. Its worth the experiment if I then cut it shorter and repeat the test a few times noting any difference. A separate pickup coil or cap may indicate more than anticipated. Well that's the stone we're searching for.
I think we all know of the OCD, One Coils Destruction comes to mind, I don't to repeat this one. With the resonant frequency I'll make sure it's off tune from the magic magnetic number.
The ugliest way to disrupt is the stun gun. A quick test is to put a starter neon(Fluorescent starters sold in 2 packs at Home Depot) in line with the coil drive. The spark is in the light range and lower for transitions. That is why they work. But the EMP noise is hard to deal with on the bench. There is no real power but the potential of the magnetic field collapsing from so far out is what makes its use astounding. Like a radical virtual FET.
555 jitter is close to same thing electrically but again uncontrolled and not a wide enough bandwidth. Run high current and you can excite the iron. The gk4 did this. The noise was damaging. I was able to increase the frequency into the very high range due to mixing / eclipsing 3 frequencies.
Don't know if you were around then. It was quite an expressive build.
Lets give this a shot:
All south poles face in. I decided on using the weaker side. The outer area is all North.
3 rows of 15 magnets. With a small gap.
In this set-up you've used copper wire. Let's see what it does, I'd expect the resonant frequency to drop if the magnetic wall is lowered into position. If another coil was made with iron wire I'm sure the results would be different dependant upon the mag field strength.
I can recall some past experiment using what looked like starters from florescent tubes having three coils on a triangular backplate. Once energised it shot upwards at incredible velocity and was never seen again.
This I remembered as it's different from the expected norm and we don't want another bill lol
Only the secondary is copper wire.
The connectors are steel and the green is all iron.
The center coil can wobble on its axis too.
I post this schematic because it is along the lines of the field distortion and relaxation process. Two cores at 90 degrees, spaced apart.
The video shows what the fields do in this build.
I drove the primary with a sine wave of 12v. The signal at the coil was 11vpp and rising as the frequency to 5Mhz(max for this siggen). I will get another siggen.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B071WLXLQ5/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IJODCLLD07PZT&colid=CTNCSSIM6W6Y (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B071WLXLQ5/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IJODCLLD07PZT&colid=CTNCSSIM6W6Y)
On its way.
@GK
Sorry man, I had to finish a major water treatment contract plus since my business partner passed in one of my companies I had to put in more hours there as well. Lots of business things happening these days that I had to contend with but will be back as a regular at OUR. Hope this is not bad news for most. hehehe
I will post on your works this weekend and from there be available. There is a method that I want to explain to you (and others) about how to go about this but the words need to be right and I have to try and keep SC from invading my writing which is not easy. It's like I have to talk about the effect without giving the true cause and pushing it in a way that will be understood, while not endorsing the standard method. Not easy.
One of the great reasons to just have the iron wire with two turns and secondary over only one turn is that if you have extra secondary wire lengths after those turns, then you can add more turns and decrease the turn widths or remove some turns and increase the turn widths very easily while you rework the frequency sweeps to find the best "nodal" relations. That is trial and error based just like in the days of vacuum tube building where distances, voltages, conductive material type all provided their specific addition to the overall deserve effect. We have to get back to being smallest and slightest effects and get further away from brute force pulsing like most are doing right now.
SM had to work some level of precision in this builds and not only slapping this and that together and expect things to work the first time. He had mentioned at one time it took him a year to get his system to work again. How is that possible if he was using the same components as before? It has to be a question of topology just as building vacuum tubes that are not set to specific tolerances will not work.
wattsup
I took note of the 1/2" to 1" turn width as a variance for
Quotethe best "nodal" relations
.
I am heading for a node count that the last node along the ring would wind up at the beginning of the ring. Snake bites its tail.
With my siggen only going to 1Mhz square I didn't want to waste time with it. I'd rather spend the effort with a 30Mhz better tool.
Just received the 30Mhz, dual channel siggen. Can see a whole lot more with this higher freq generator. I like it for $130.
Next I will upgrade scope and power supply.
Will sine sweep for more signal situations. Right now the primary resonates at 15.92Mhz. Will tank secondary to match that.
The coupling from the primary to secondary is great!
It is going to be a good weekend.
I have other household duties to perform, Not!
Absotively phenonimous!
To clarify the steps:
1: Find resonate of the primary
2: Tank the secondary to match so the inductive storage of both coils are additive
3: Alter the length of the secondary of permit the nodes to appear in certain radial positions of the circumference.
I tried .01uf, .22uf, 68uf, and 1000uf. Doesn't seem to change the secondary resonance much but it does decrease with the bigger values. Will also raise these as well. The LTPU had large caps in center so maybe this is a sign.
At the resonant frequency of the secondary which is x4 the primary these anomalies appear. I have been here many times before watching the tops and bottoms of this wave form. It is the precursor to self oscillation. Oops. Forgot to remove the scope ground. That will be next session now that I have an idea of the frequencies.
No household duties, that's the complete opposite of what I have. I can't afford the 250K so I'm stuck with a load of plumbing, decorating and the car as well as that tapping foot expectation. Envious?, oh yeah lol.
Let's not forget THE LENGTH of the cables, this is important too as we may not be dealing with standard model physics. The 'c' we know of seems a tad slow for some reason, it's in the history of these devices or so it seems.
15 MHz looks good here too with no added caps although the Q isn't that high. Perhaps a HV cap or two will improve this. The better the Q appears to be the stronger the node current will be too. Hendershot noticed the nodal current was higher than anticipated in his working units, it makes you wonder if the magnetic would follow too, perhaps a local clamp meter would show this.
I've not found any irf840's yet, I put them in a safe place and the local store looks like where I'll find an equivalent as they're strangely obsolete. Theres a few available that have faster rise and fall times but the price gets scarey considering one costs more than your new sig gen. I'll find them when I go looking for that 'lost plumbing tool' I need lol.
@GK
Congrats on your purchase. A real great price as well. JUST BE CAREFUL NOT TO UNPLUG ANYTHING INDUCTIVE WHILE THE CIRCUIT IS RUNNING and unplug it during thunderstorms. That low price must mean less flyback protection.
During your trials there is a small observation of the FTPU that I want to put forward.
In the FTPU, SM stuck that magnet positioned yes in the side center of the loop so for us we are thinking the magnet needs to be in the center. But the magnet was really stuck on two metal speaker type terminals. So what if the iron wire is NOT re-biased by air proximity but by direct magnetic magnetization of the iron wire. Two speaker terminals can go each to a separate iron ring (top and bottom) where they both receive the same side of that magnet polarity which would also confirm that both rings receive the same pulse in parallel.
I would try the magnet to stick on the side of the iron wire receiving the make/break which is the side that starts the secondary on the iron wire. That would put a direct left or right crank and hold of the iron nuclei for the pulse to then crank or sway those same nuclei the other way at pulse on. The copper wire will only follow what the iron wire conveys. So if the iron wire can convey more sway per mW, then that copper wire should follow that conveyance and produce good output. It is actually incredible how efficient it is. If it works better with the magnet stuck to the iron wire, then there is a possibility that the circular loop topology would not be required and a simple straight iron wire with half secondary wind would do the same thing. The great thing is too find out all these things is so simply done. No elaborate builds and the learning will be from quick comparisons.
When testing, sometimes consider reversing the polarity of the pulse on the iron wire and hunt again. You need to understand the difference in pulsing the make/break on the first wound secondary side versus trying the same make/break on the side without a secondary. In Standard EE, because electrons are said to "travel" so fast in the wire, THERE SHOULD BE NO DIFFERENCE. So is there a difference? The how of that would produce a mountain of pages by itself but nothing equals providing it to yourself first.
The magnet when stuck to a pulsed iron wire should also produce some "vibration". hehehe
Yes, I know I could do all this myself and produce a few more videos etc., but I am more confident in your observational and objective nature since of course, some may say I have a bias against Standard EE. It's not a bias against Standard EE, it's a bias against unquestioned mono-intelligence of our effects.
The ultimate goal here is to get to a point where an X mW pulse produces X times 1.Y mW output. We are not looking
here to light up a standard bulb. Just getting slightly or better over COP is enough at this stage.
I will post another one during the weekend on some other angles to help you and others look at his in a more practical and hands on manner then the unlimited EE lingo that really means nothing. If we can stay real in the effect observation it will guide us to newer steps and effects.
wattsup
@Szaxx, I can assume you are going to use a push-pull or gate driver on the fet? Straight drive can be slow transition times and 555s chatter. The chatter can cause the fet to spend too much time in the linear area of the transition causing heat. But I am probably preaching to the choir, eh?
@All,
I was too enjoyed with my siggeny to remain objective. So let me update my steps:
These are the sine wave steps:
QuoteTo clarify the steps:
1: Find resonate of the primary
2: Tank the secondary to match so the inductive storage of both coils are additive
3: Alter the length of the secondary of permit the nodes to appear in certain radial positions of the circumference.
I tried .01uf, .22uf, 68uf, and 1000uf. Doesn't seem to change the secondary resonance much but it does decrease with the bigger values. Will also raise these as well. The LTPU had large caps in center so maybe this is a sign.
At the resonant frequency of the secondary which is x4 the primary these anomalies appear. I have been here many times before watching the tops and bottoms of this wave form. It is the precursor to self oscillation. Oops. Forgot to remove the scope ground. That will be next session now that I have an idea of the frequencies.
The square wave steps AND PRECAUTIONS are next. I realized early this morning that my scope connections were the kicker that reminded me that they should not be there when I switch to square waves. Big epiphany moment here. Like Wattsup just posted to be cautious about connections.
Here is another dream come true:
On the LTPU, remember the two fuse holders on the back? One had a fuse and the other did not? Well based upon what Wattsup is suggesting the open fuse holder is perfect for sticking a magnet to! I do not recall seeing if the magnet was stuck to the center toroid terminals the the device was in operation. That could possible be seen in the clamp meter demo. I'll go there when time permits. Or if anybody wants to do a little digging to find a link I would appreciate. SM never showed the magnets to anybody or let them hold them. Another slight of hand.
'They are just normal magnets...'Also,
QuoteIn the FTPU, SM stuck that magnet positioned yes in the side center of the loop so for us we are thinking the magnet needs to be in the center. But the magnet was really stuck on two metal speaker type terminals. So what if the iron wire is NOT re-biased by air proximity but by direct magnetic magnetization of the iron wire. Two speaker terminals can go each to a separate iron ring (top and bottom) where they both receive the same side of that magnet polarity which would also confirm that both rings receive the same pulse in parallel.
Does anyone think that the magnet could have been wrapped in Or just one pole side with black plastic tape to prevent conduction of each loop to each other electrically? Just thought.
QuoteThe magnet when stuck to a pulsed iron wire should also produce some "vibration". hehehe
I did this with the GK4 and Neodyns. The frequencies that came out of that were what burnt me. I will be more careful this time. The cabinet mags are lower Teslas also.
So I have alot of very simple things to try this wknd.
And I have a bad habit of continually modifying posts, to add steps or correct grammar. This keeps them from showing up as new posts so important updates can get missed.
This is why this post exists here. My advice is always go back and my last post to catch up. A new post then always stipulates going forward from that point.
Thanks and noted...
QuoteCongrats on your purchase. A real great price as well. JUST BE CAREFUL NOT TO UNPLUG ANYTHING INDUCTIVE WHILE THE CIRCUIT IS RUNNING and unplug it during thunderstorms. That low price must mean less flyback protection.
Siggeny square wave attenuates down to perfect sine wave across 50 ohm load.
@GK
Forgot to mention another point.
The second half of the iron wire. I think it is best to not let it near the first half that will have the magnet inside its circle. So the first half with the secondary can be a horizontal loop and the second half just turns straight down so away from the horizontal loop. See if that will change the waveform.
You see we only really need the magnet for the first half because that is the half that changes and needs rebiasing, whereas the second half is just sitting there, would be still in the air proximity of the magnet so it can put up adversarial effects that could hold back the reaction time of the first half. The more we can change the iron wire without causing needless hindrance, the more the secondary will see it and convey that as output.
Also, nothing is said about the secondary wire but it could in fact be litz (many parallel) or silver wire or flat litz (closer coupling) or flat silver wire or flat copper wire as well. Once you have a good base of effects that can be repeated, you can always try two or three secondaries still wound not touching but meeting at the ends once off the ring. So if you have three secondaries wound over the iron wire those three leave the iron wire individually before you connect them together in parallel as an output. That's another comparison. But you will get a sense of the limited variables and how they effect the results and this will at one point produce some flash in your mind too all of a sudden try a mix and bingo an oddity will pop out but only if you are attentive and open and available to notice it.
As for applied voltage.
Let's say you only had that one half ring with the second half going straight down (for now). You scope the iron ring without pulsing. You then bring the magnet close to the ring and move it around to see if you can catch the effect on your scope. You then pulse the ring but at only 1 volt. While pulsing you bring the magnet and move it around again. If you can still see the magnet movement on the scope, increase the voltage too 2 volts, then try the magnet again, if yes increase and try again and again until you reach the last voltage increase before you can no longer see the magnet movements on the scope while it is being pulsed. I would say that is the voltage to stick with for now. Do you get the method? It's like you are trimming the voltage to the level the magnet can intervene and return the bias. Any more and the magnet is not even seen or noticed. This is the delicacy of how these relations can be explored. Not saying its easy and it is time consuming but doing things progressively, notice the affects and taking images or screen shots with some notes on values and the like are all part of that so have some fun will y'a.
We can talk about what to do with that second half once you have a few repeatable baselines so from there any progression and change in effect is not lost in the shuffle.
Days, weeks, there is no rush.
wattsup
Since this test entails frequencies higher than 1 Mhz. I have to build a FET driver for which I have parts for.
My SSR boards are currently not working. I have surplus chips for repair but have to find them.
Something in the signal chain is not quite right. Need to do some debugging.
I am still in the process of interfacing my signal gennies for square wave drive to load. I should have one of these already as stand by for my SSR boards.
But when everything works, why bother, right? Now I am stuck.
I have an lm324 board but it needs debugging also. I never got the previous sigen to drive a coil with square waves. I used 555s. But over time I wanted to upgrade to a better setup of equipment
Impedance matched high speed load driver. I have seen the high prices of equipment of this ilk. I have to build one and hopefully the headaches are not as great as the savings.
Using a 555 as a buffer driver only gets me to 5Mhz. My SSR boards are max 15Mhz. And newest genny is 30Mhz.
The cheapest route would be to build a transistor based push/pull for FET gate drive. The speed is then based on the transistor top speed of ~300Mhz.
A surprising redo once the signal path was corrected:
The optoisolator input was a dead short to ground through the internal photodiode.
I removed 50 Ohm impedance matching resistor connected to ground. I installed a 50 ohm limiting input resistor to the SSRs. This way the load is now 50 ohm.
With sine wave application the 50 ohm load goes to ground. With square wave application the 50 ohm is in series with the load because the coil looks like a dead short.
Siggen set to 10v amplitude. +5 vdc offset. This lifts the 10vpp signal to sit on ground. Otherwise the SSR opto coupler only receives half the signal of 5vpp and this was further diminished by the 50 ohm input resistor.
Signal reaching SSR ~14vpp. BEMF 200vpp! with scope attached to coil thru a 50 Ohm resistor.
20khz driving frequency. Oddly enough the largest BEMFs come at <30khz.
This is probably a start to the anomaly.
Placing a magnet on the whole coil changes nothing.
Now that the signal drive chain is correct I will pursue the last post of Wattsup.
I realized that I built the coil incorrectly. I doubled the turns prescribed. Here is the new build by the previous instructions. I also made the secondary with Litz wire at 1 inch spaced turns.
But now that I have the signal drive setup correct let's see what new items appear in this build.
2 foot iron wire as primary. Litz wire wound on make/break first half as secondary. Last half of of primary left straight with no secondary winding.
The secondary has an overlap on the primary of 1 inch at beginning of primary at make/break.
Furthest end of Litz wire is just taped to allow the altering of the secondary winding count should it be necessary.
Am also wondering if the turn direction of the secondary needs to be taken into consideration also. Any thoughts? Easy enough to change with this build.
I wasn't following the previous build instructions and I don't know why. Nobody else caught it either. I ran off roughshod again. No telling how many things I missed in the past because of this impetuous nature of mine.
Lets fire this coil up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5yfpLdVQk0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5yfpLdVQk0)
Made another coil too with flat litz and copper.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gvvsbrnpyau3o1p/IMG_20170808_064214.jpg?dl=0/
Will have fun with this one. I think some experimenting will be called for with the helical turn direction if we are to take on a thorough investigation. The video of yours reminded me of something I was told long ago, " you supply the heartbeat and let it breathe naturally". This has had me thinking for years and the 'anomaly' displayed may be the precursor, it was one of those 'aha' flashback moments.
@GK
I took your last photo and made a few comments as it is simpler then trying to explain in words.
We cannot take anything for granted. They may seem mundane during a complete frequency sweep but maybe not so mundane at the right frequency. Basically trying to eliminate potential bottlenecks.
So think of one completed ring as one kick potential or kick source. Then with more "identical" rings in parallel you will get more kicks and they will overlap somewhat because some will be slightly longer or shorter then others. It is in the parallel game that you will later increase amperage.
Pulsing the iron wire can be at its resonance point or the secondarys' resonance point. Or if sticking a magnet at the pulsed end, at the magnets possible resonance point. There are three choices.
Also, I would not have taped the secondary permanently on the iron ring since also playing the the turns numbers, more or less was the other variable. Imagine if the turns ratio could get the secondary and the primary to be both resonant at the same frequency.
We have a bad habit in our builds to neglect the true variables by putting them in fixed conditions that we decide in advance. If you cannot hunt the variables then the play is more like pot luck, fixed build has to work or it is not a good idea, when in reality you could be one small adjustment away from something worthwhile.
wattsup
Found the irf840 (last one), small heatsink and a few drivers. Connected the driver and a reservoir cap directly on the gate of the 840 in push pull configuration. I've not used the diode and resistor dt off enhancer as the gate gets taken to Vss through the driver. I hope this configuration is fast enough. I'll order some equivalent MOSFETs for future use. Input polarity is noted as it's likely inverse at present, requiring a high speed inverter to match the driver parameters.
I've more turns at present on my coil for experimenting, it's easier removing them if necessary.
Once the driver is built and tested I'll be ready to fire it up too.
Yes on the inverted driver. They make complimentary polarities and some of the drivers I have are 2 channel out of opposite polarities.
If you find the driver you want then request the company and request samples.
Here are the solid state relay board specifications.
And Magnacoaster build.
Quote from: szaxx on 2017.08.09, 16:18:56
Found the irf840 (last one), small heatsink and a few drivers.
If necessary I can buy them (https://m.reichelt.de/IRC-IRF-Transistoren/IRF-840/3/index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=2891&ARTICLE=8805) here in Germany and send you as a donation for your good work. Best Norbert
Quote from: rensseak on 2017.08.10, 15:08:01
If necessary I can buy them (https://m.reichelt.de/IRC-IRF-Transistoren/IRF-840/3/index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=2891&ARTICLE=8805) here in Germany and send you as a donation for your good work. Best Norbert
Thank you Norbert for your kind offer. I've not searched all the usual suppliers just yet so some may be available. The instant I saw obsolete it reminded me of the same with barium being made obsolete in magnets. I did wonder if a connection existed.
The driver smoked on power-up??? How inconsiderate of it, it's an SMD too making it fiddly. Glasses and clip-ons donned again so I can see the tiny thing. I have more left fortunately. This will have to wait until Tuesday now as I am most likely away for the weekend.
Irf7307PbF, these were recommended for the 810 and have served well enough in the past. Time will tell if they're up for the job.
GK, interesting find on the lower frequency pulsing. Its things like this that get missed and the game stops as a result. If it's an event of importance or some parasitic effect we'll find out as things unfurl.
@ Wattsup, the frequency sweep at default produced nothing spectacular, I guess interesting results will be obtained with a narrower bandwidth and a few Hertz jump. I know 'certain aspects of resonance' are knife edged if you know where to look. If this process is part of the conversation a ventilated work area is good for longevity. 21 MHz comes to mind if you understand my meaning.
@Szaxx,
The SSRB docs show different FETs and IGBTs that are closely compatible with that driver chip in the BOM.
http://www.ixysic.com/Products/IGBT-MOSFETDvr.htm?utm_source=All+About+Circuits+Members&utm_campaign=385a13936d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_08_09&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2565529c4b-385a13936d-266155541
Your chip burn could be low or high side problem?
@GK
1) Re your last video showing that heartbeat I gather the red trace was primary and yellow trace was the secondary. That was not clear.
2) Was a magnet in the loop?
Because there are a few people visiting this page and may be trying this at home and since it is only a two wire build, it will be logical to build several. Like your last one showing that anomaly, put it aside or don't change it. Try to replicate it with another build but leave that one as is for now. You touch it and it could take weeks before you hit it again. Remember SM said it took him a year to find the mix again.
So this effort would require several builds that could tag team each other so that as one effect is seen it can be kept while another is tried and advanced and so on. This way each level is covered.
Also, we need to determine via two identical builds if keeping the iron wire completely straight versus another with one loop will make a difference?
Maybe make a stand that can hold up a two foot iron wire at the ends and the center so you can wind the secondary easily with as many turns as you want.
So you hunt pulse the iron wire and now have your full length of secondary also scoped with only one turn over the iron wire, see the scope, add another turn, see the scope play with frequency and another turn. Also trying to slide those turns to different positions. Wider, thinner. It's all a play that starts with that secondary on that iron wire with more or less turns. If three turns at one frequency makes the same effect as 20 turns at another frequency?
I will start on it as well and make a few videos. What we need to completely understand is the effect of a pulse on the iron wire and if it shows distinct nodes that change position with frequency. Differences with and without a tuck magnet on the pulse end, on the other end, all these are some variables that could be played with.
All we are really looking for is a potential at volts and mA that could show some OU to start with. You could also tank the secondary with a 1N5819 or 1N5817 diode with a 3-5 volt LED across it and see the output that way instead of just scoping it. It you get to a level where the LED burns out, that's what we are looking for.
wattsup
@Watt
Muy importante!
That video was done before your physical configuration changes to the build.
The scope trace red is primary and yellow is secondary.
No magnet in test. Magnet didn't seem to matter at this stage.
That heartbeat is the start of resonant rise in a particular coil configuration.
I had gotten the resonant rise before and applied to other builds.
This is the waveform is that got me started in more diverse builds. It is the same waveforms from a previous build using my Heathkit 20mhz analog scope.
The event just appears when ever I incorporate iron wire in my builds. There seems to be no difficultly. I will continue with this latest build to achieve these waveforms once again. I am not discounting any validity of other's efforts here.The second scope shot is a high side switch.
The obvious can be missed when searching for the elusive.
The ring transformer picture has two 26 gauge spools. The white one is steel and copper windings.
And at that time I didn't have the higher speed equipment that I have now. There were two camps of information. One was high side switch and the other was low side. I remember being told that the high side permits a faster field collapse because of the charge having the path into ground. When the low side switch collapses the charge has to dissipate and is disconnected from ground. The discharge radiates outward trying to achieve balance thereby connecting with any equipment in the vicinity.
@ GK, the heartbeat anomaly, is this only present with a varying input frequency?
Re the driver, the n-type is a dead short so the smoke was imminent lol.
I've replaced the chip and will test each section before I connect it all together to make sure this one is good.
The comment on high/low side switch connection raised an eyebrow. If the supply is high voltage this potential will be on the coil at disconnection raising it's ambient voltage above ground for high side switching. If its low side then a direct path to ground is present. However, I'm using isolated power (batteries) so no ground connection exists and the scope is on batteries too. The power supply in reality should have bypass caps and RF snubbers on it's output so the ground current will flow independent of high/low side switching. Unless I'm missing a valid point somewhere in the mix.
I'm hopeful it'll work fine and be fast enough so I can catch up.
This build is following the specifications submitted by Wattsup previously of the two feet of iron wire, 1 turn loop with the Litz wire spaced winding but with a recent submission of using a straight build instead of a circular build. The pulse drive is 10vdc, 20% duty cycle to the FET switch which conducts a 12vdc supply through the winding. At this stage there are no coils but simply attennas, transmission and reception. There are no magnets in place yet either.
I used a straight of PVC for the mount. Nothing major to do to accomplish this. The ends are taped and the last half of the iron wire is not wound upon, just like the specifications call for. By removing the tape confine at the end of the iron wire(FE) and having a pre-cut length of Litz it is very easy to alter the windings. Which I have.
I accomplished two tests with this build so far. Both are low side switching. The first test is a Litz winding on the first half of the iron wire with a turn spacing of one inch. The second test is using a turn spacing of one half inch, twice the windings as before.
In both tests I pulsed the Litz windings and the iron wire. At 7200hz and lower I see the same signal format. That bump appears no matter what I do. It has a 3- 4 cycle ring down in all tests. This points to a possibility of two items: one, it is a property of iron wire or two it is a FET ring down.
I had, many years ago thrown this question out into the OU arena 'What if the anomaly is an amalgam of the two, a property of iron and the FET ring down?'
In 1996, stereo amplifiers were in there hayday of using FET amplifiers of which SM was involved.
Using Litz wire we get a very thin conductor with a lot of surface area. The surface area of wire has been discussed ad infinitum before. The ratio of Litz wire surface area to iron wire is huge. Go back a couple of my posts and you will see the Magnacoaster build is using Litz on his coil. One might think step up. But I contend it is using a very small conductor to increase the external field area and density. This would lend itself to a massively larger BEMF which would prefer to go to ground or in this case the iron wire since it is ferromagnetic. I refer to the voltage listing in the scope picture.
I hope this is informative and clearly stated.
Since this heartbeat( I believe this is it and the property the suggested build is presented for) is apparent I will use this to search for nodes along the iron wire run using destructive and non-destructive measuring methods stated in this thread also.
The yellow trace is the pulsed Litz wire run. The red trace is a scope probe laying adjacent to the build.
5 oscilloscopes, 5 signal generators, 3 multimeters, one marriage later I still pursue. I have fallen prey to the term so many assumed as 'allusive' as mentioned by SM. Maybe its not...
The iron wire holds the field just long enough to be interacted again by the FET ring down or the magnetic charge is still dissipating after the ring down . Maybe hysteresis is our friend.
Driving the Litz helical antenna sends a charge through its center pushing this energy on into the iron wire further and further with each pulse.
Next steps:
Node searching, high side switching, pulse the iron wire and scope the Litz(both directions), possibly move the Litz windings along the position of the iron wire.
Clarification of switching side: The switch remains at the place of the antenna where both wires are connected at the one end of the iron wire. This is the make/break point as per the previous specification. I am simply reversing polarity across the whole build. The SSRB boards are bidirectional.
As I suspected. The FET switch on the ground side produces a higher BEMF. The charge has a more difficult path to ground.
More to come...
Quote from: szaxx on 2017.08.15, 09:51:04
@ GK, the heartbeat anomaly, is this only present with a varying input frequency?
Re the driver, the n-type is a dead short so the smoke was imminent lol.
I've replaced the chip and will test each section before I connect it all together to make sure this one is good.
The comment on high/low side switch connection raised an eyebrow. If the supply is high voltage this potential will be on the coil at disconnection raising it's ambient voltage above ground for high side switching. If its low side then a direct path to ground is present. However, I'm using isolated power (batteries) so no ground connection exists and the scope is on batteries too. The power supply in reality should have bypass caps and RF snubbers on it's output so the ground current will flow independent of high/low side switching. Unless I'm missing a valid point somewhere in the mix.
I'm hopeful it'll work fine and be fast enough so I can catch up.
When the low side switch cuts off the coil potential is floating. And we are concerned with the switching
Quoteoff
. Where would the BEMF go? Back through the power supply to ground through the bypass cap. This would be a longer route. The iron is magnetic too and is not a flux path as in not circularly connected.
The only varying frequency is the FET ringing. But this is gone long before the beat shows up.
Like Wattsup said: We are at a point where the minimal build is more crucial. And you know you rang a bell there mentioning the batteries. My most impactive tests were with batteries. But my test equipment was plugged in. That environmental setup I had was at a previous place so I have no real reference to go back to. I am thinking bypass caps and snubbers are not what is wanted here. The resonant rise would never take place if the charge could get to ground quicker.
More documentation...
The displayed build was an alternative configuration to achieve the artifact.
This used lamp wire and special hardware and software engineered by JDO300 which I bought.
This was driven with two channels at 5ns apart. The configuration to capitalize on the artifact was never pursued to its fullest extent.
I had made two these coils and stood them side by side to raise the height of the artifact. This made it look similar to Don Smith's multi coil setup.
The back EMF would normally get discharged through the protection diode. The 840 has one and it'll only conduct if the voltage is high enough. My thoughts were on this possibly being another problem at higher power levels if it's conducting. A ringing choke circuit uses fast diodes in the switch but we're not using this method.
Thoughts on total disconnection seem to have brought up tubes, these being initially used, they don't suffer as semiconductors can.
You're seeing some effects so perhaps I'm thinking too much lol.
I couldn't see any output using a magnet too. What sensitivity is required to see this?
Ok on the artifact being another set-up, it does look impressive as it's something you'd not expect to see.
Now there are 4 of us who have seen this, maybe more but nobody else is speaking up. Safety in numbers though. I don't look like I am crazy anymore.
I have the tube experiment done too and yes the chamber rings afterwards also.
I will stick with this build to completion.
The gk4 had the largest but uncontrolled expression.
Ya know(expression of extreme ahha) the secondary action has to happen within the hysteresis curve of the first action. This why we see the artifact in such low frequencies using FE material, as in my case 7.2khz and below. This sounds like the secret to me, no?
I think so. The eclipsing frequencies that I harped on so much do just this in an Fe medium. Lower the Fe volume to enable better control of the artifact build up. The finesse is in competing with saturation.
As I bow to the audience they clamor for an encore...
Its always good to go back and review what others have stated.
QuoteIT IS IMPOSSIBLE! (Without back EMF suppression)
By Don Smith
http://perpetualelectric.blogspot.com/2017/ (http://perpetualelectric.blogspot.com/2017/)
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.08.17, 03:56:55
Its always good to go back and review what others have stated.http://perpetualelectric.blogspot.com/2017/ (http://perpetualelectric.blogspot.com/2017/)
Looking at the examples, bemf suppression isn't handled via a diode as standard, it's opposed which releases the energy in another form. This can be used as successful units (I guess) employ this release. With identical resonances in opposition I'd also expect to see high currents at the nodes.
This does sound familiar.
Not to detract from the current effort.
Quote from: szaxx on 2017.08.17, 12:12:53
it's opposed which releases the energy in another form. This can be used as successful units (I guess) employ this release. With identical resonances in opposition I'd also expect to see high currents at the nodes.
This does sound familiar.
Don and Vlad state that the energy(the other magnetic field) comes out at a perpendicular angle, 90 degrees.
They also tout activity of a field within a field. This fits with what we are trying to see.
If you google 'Don Smith's Multicoil', click on the images. There are links that show the Kunel type builds but with opposing magnets applied. This fits with the Apartheid capacitor configuration. Look at the description under each link. Heavy into the physics of the charge storage which makes perfect sense.
Now comes the effort to tie this current effort to the partheid process. I believe they are closely related. Step one is to charge up then step two withdraw charge in a different way.
Because they all say you can not withdraw energy in the normal fashion. SM stated you connect to ground you lose the energy.
Don Smith also stated: 'I will not disclose how it works. I have shown in detail all the builds. Let them figure it out.' Then there are all the standard trained saying how it doesn't work because of a misrepresentation of Ohm's law. Interesting and gratifying at the same time.
With the Apartheid cap we have access to forces of differing angles instead of these being contained in an inaccessible place like the capacitor can.
And like Wattsup stated that we can then use two of the iron wire build next to each other. This would place nodes at certain places of the air based capacitance. This is not unlike a Tesla coil with the air based capacitor of the secondary potential from a ground reference.
And the coupe de grace is SM mentioned kicks and the Apartheid cap needs a kicker coil to start the process.
I just happen to have an Apartheid cap lying around. This one I had put the Tesla coil primary pancake on and kicker coils on each side.
Back to counting turns...
I currently have 24 turns, 1 every half inch. I marked the iron wire at 1 inch segments.
Here is spreadsheet for documenting. Sorry, xls type not allowable.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.08.17, 17:31:04
Not to detract from the current effort.
Don and Vlad state that the energy(the other magnetic field) comes out at a perpendicular angle, 90 degrees.
They also tout activity of a field within a field. This fits with what we are trying to see.
If you google 'Don Smith's Multicoil', click on the images. There are links that show the Kunel type builds but with opposing magnets applied. This fits with the Apartheid capacitor configuration. Look at the description under each link. Heavy into the physics of the charge storage which makes perfect sense.
Now comes the effort to tie this current effort to the partheid process. I believe they are closely related. Step one is to charge up then step two withdraw charge in a different way.
Because they all say you can not withdraw energy in the normal fashion. SM stated you connect to ground you lose the energy.
Don Smith also stated: 'I will not disclose how it works. I have shown in detail all the builds. Let them figure it out.' Then there are all the standard trained saying how it doesn't work because of a misrepresentation of Ohm's law. Interesting and gratifying at the same time.
With the Apartheid cap we have access to forces of differing angles instead of these being contained in an inaccessible place like the capacitor can.
And like Wattsup stated that we can then use two of the iron wire build next to each other. This would place nodes at certain places of the air based capacitance. This is not unlike a Tesla coil with the air based capacitor of the secondary potential from a ground reference.
And the coupe de grace is SM mentioned kicks and the Apartheid cap needs a kicker coil to start the process.
I just happen to have an Apartheid cap lying around. This one I had put the Tesla coil primary pancake on and kicker coils on each side.
I had noticed the few turns on one of the tpu's rings. This looked like a winding of a possible initiating kick coil. You see similar in electronic flash units for xenon tube firing around the exciter coil.
I have 28 turns of litz at present and have added a solid copper coil running parallel for monitoring. They both give the same results so far and hopefully will differ enough to notice, once the coil is matched to the required parameters.
On the switching circuit, do you have both high and low side switching?
I have also considered a pnpn semiconductor construct as in scr's using high speed transistors as this arrangement should give isolation. The voltage limit is a problem with high speed transistors and the supply may need switching too even though the construct can be operated with an off button of sorts.
The spreadsheet can't be opened at this end, which isn't helpful lol.
Quote from: szaxx on 2017.08.18, 18:00:09
I had noticed the few turns on one of the tpu's rings. This looked like a winding of a possible initiating kick coil. You see similar in electronic flash units for xenon tube firing around the exciter coil.
I have 28 turns of litz at present and have added a solid copper coil running parallel for monitoring. They both give the same results so far and hopefully will differ enough to notice, once the coil is matched to the required parameters.
On the switching circuit, do you have both high and low side switching?
I have also considered a pnpn semiconductor construct as in scr's using high speed transistors as this arrangement should give isolation. The voltage limit is a problem with high speed transistors and the supply may need switching too even though the construct can be operated with an off button of sorts.
The spreadsheet can't be opened at this end, which isn't helpful lol.
I lowered my turns down to 20, I fire both the primary and secondary with 7200hz in phase same direction. I know this isnt in the prescription but I thought I would try. The secondary reads 164vpp with a 12vdc switched coil supply. I am lowering turns as I go. The vpp is starting to go up since the 24 turn test. I will continue removing turns. Some type of Apartheid cap integration still comes to mind in this setup.
My SSR boards are bidirectional and I have to switch the hi low config. Although I have thought about an H-bridge but I have to add in my 4th SSRB for that. Right now my setup is of three. Since everything is socketed I should have it in there anyway.
Correct on the spreadsheet. Here is zip.
@GK
Just to quickly chime in on the device photo you posted here;
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg64410#msg64410
With SC looking at that photo we see the two primaries on each end placed vertical. That would be better if the primaries were horizontal or if that complete device was vertical so the primaries become horizontal. That way each part of the primary receives the same Earth bias at pulse off and the secondaries would be cloaked from the Earth bias since the winds are one on top of the other thus the lower winds will cloak the higher winds from the Earth bias. The thing is with SC, you can actually consider such things as viable cause and effects.
Lot's of stuff being thrown around so I won't express anything yet. Let me start this weekend with my own tests and possibly do a video to show the preliminary steps I was talking about.
OK, just as a side note about your present tests pulsing both the pri and sec at the same time. What could be put on the secondary side to offset the pulse timing slightly from that going to the primary? Remember we would talk about methods of producing delay components way back around 10 years ago? If the pulse hit the primary first, it would shift the nuclei on the secondary further left then just its ambient rebias position, then when the pulse hits the secondary it should produce a longer swing meaning much more voltage then you see now.
So what if you had two transistors, one base is pulsed direct and the other base has a small cap on it that delays the pulse rise to the base enough to produce a delay in between both pulses. So, could the yellow capacitors in the LTPU be used as a delay? There are two so in a four quadrant LTPU, the capacitors would go only on two of them. Hard to explain really but just thinking out loud to bring in a new angle to this. Just because you have one pulse, does not mean you use it as one pulse. Technically yes you would lose a bit on the delay but maybe there is a combo there that would produce an overall increase, more then simply pulsing them both at the same time.
wattsup
Look at the activity on that line tracer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No)
Don repeatedly talks about the electron flipping. Spin Conveyance.
@Watt,
I refer to the picture of the parallel lamp wire http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg64387#msg64387. (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg64387#msg64387)
Since both were copper there had to be a special dual pulse generator built where the timing was controlled by a PC. The reasoning is because the copper charge decayed at an incredible fast rate and to get in on it we needed to be very fast. But alas we could only see the small artifact. It was not large enough to work with at that time. The iron wire addition holds the field longer through hysteresis from saturation of the flux. Just preaching to the choir or anybody new who is lurking and catching up.
QuoteDelay the pulse rise to the secondary base
This will be my next step.
I will see if my freqgen can attempt that kind of delay.
Delay lines generally are coils. They could be contained within a ferrite core too. Remember the CIVIL from school. Capacitors, it's the current that leads and inductors it's the voltage.
With inductors it looks like the voltage gets through before the current. This sounds familiar regarding the tpu lol. Imagine the delay from a 4 Henry series choke, far too long for our purposes.
Shows changing the phase of the two trigger signals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9-ctEFr_Ok&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9-ctEFr_Ok&feature=youtu.be)
I believe I found it at 4 turns and lower the Litz secondary shows this:
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.08.20, 05:19:12
I believe I found it at 4 turns and lower the Litz secondary shows this:
@GK
Had unexpected visitors yesterday. I had started a post but was called away. Shnit.
OK, 4 turns. Stop. Very interesting.
1) Now what happens if those 4 turns are slid across the iron wire from pulsed side to permanent connection side of the iron ring?
2) Then what happens to the four turns when the turns are closer or further apart? Very important.
3) Then what happens if you bring an Alnico magnet near the four turns or stuck to either end of the iron wire or two magnet one on each end and changed polarity?
All these variables from that one base could teach a lot.
I finished my straight set-up and will start today with some trials. Will post.
What I had started to post yesterday......
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.08.19, 16:56:27
Look at the activity on that line tracer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7GHqw7d1No)
Don repeatedly talks about the electron flipping. Spin Conveyance.
@GK
1000 times yes. I am so sure if I knew Smith and SC then and explained it too him, he would have caught on in 30 minutes. He would have had a new way to talk about his effects because everything he said seemed to fly by most attendees. He explained his effects to his best "T" but could never really touch the causes. Tesla would have caught on in 5 or 2.
When he showed Beardens Metglass coil, Metglass is what? Oriented atoms. So how are they oriented? The atoms are not but the nuclei of each atom is. The more oriented the nuclei are in a mass, the more nuclei will respond to the same stimuli. The more nuclei that respond, the more amperage is conveyed at a given voltage. Otherwise Metglass would have no advantage.
Leaves on a tree? Same thing. They figured out how to orient the heavy side to best react to the Sun pulsations during its daily motion in the sky. Your eyes see because of oriented nuclei each atom having its affinity to a certain wavelength of light. THERE ARE NO PHOTONS just as in xrays, there is no beam passing through you to hit the plate. The plate nuclei simply react to the presence of a source and the body in between muffles some of that intensity to produce the skeletal form. All backwards. Just like the Cabal like it.
In SC voltage then becomes the simple construct in degrees of nucleic sway and amperage becomes the number of nuclei swaying and conveying down the line. From that you then can take all the bases for resistance, impedance, capacitance, etc.
The same could be used for anti-gravity objects because sway includes inertia. With the right atoms, conductive but with much heavier nuclei, if oriented so the nucleic heavy side is pointing horizontal, if a pulse makes the sway of the nuclei sway upwards then return with the Earth bias, then another pulse to sway upwards again, etc., you just made an anti-gravity device. Just don't stop pulsing. Those aluminum kites that rise when energized with high voltage work in the same manner. Voltage is the degree of nucleic sway in a particular atom. Even though the aluminum are not oriented, there are enough nuclei pointing horizontally and at the right frequency bingo, off the ground. There is no playing with fields and no electrons required.
Most everything we are doing today will be looked on in xx years and people will wonder how the hell we managed all this without knowing the real cause/effect. The guys that researched and produced the vacuum tube were in my eyes the best nucleus users on the planet. They conquered the nefarious coil/core/coil coupling limit by using atoms and proximity in a way that even today our electronics cannot properly describe with electrons, without resorting to quasi religious faith based beliefs. It just works but the gained knowledge of vacuum tubes is now lost with the lives of those who had mastered them through rigorous trial and error. For those still alive, they would be a Gold Mine of material cause and effect. Imagine, the best sound systems still use vacuum tubes.
I think the IC is actually the one that stalled our progress in OU research because no one can see anything but the effect. So you take a modern day memory chip. Science says it's chock full of electrons and fields. How the hell is that possible, no one can say. But under SC it is very normal when each atom has a responsive nuclei that can act independent to the other nuclei and convey a signal, micron to micron or atoms to atoms. We are swaying nuclei but do not know it.
The thing is with SC, just using the Periodical Table of Elements and some new math that would be needed would provide experimenters with more ways to work out topologies where the nucleic angle of the heavy side would become a major factor in producing new wires, flat wires, materials, sensors, medical devices, topologies, etc. Light and sound could become fair primaries. Secondary wires could be pre-oriented in series and parallel to produce OU outputs even in the most elementary topologies.
Human ailments would be seen as unresponsive nuclei where an outside sound or light or pulse source could be used to degaus or reorient or release the body so it can return to its original base. It's all at our grasp.
I will be putting up a new SC based Periodical Table that will explain better the base of SC. I am looking to find a modern day Maxwell that could work out some math for more columns of the table and other math for producing some formulas based on nucleic heavy side and inertia. This could open up a whole new area of science.
Anyways, sorry, I know I am a ranter but sometimes I need to let out some steam, but let's move on brother.
wattsup
Five things:
I will be switching to my high voltage scope probes.
Einstein's comment 'spooky action at a distance' will make him look like a fool.
If we make distance a relative term one can see the nucleic alignment attributal to all matter coeleasing at any one place or pairing in space.
Eric Dollard and Don Smith both talk about how Ohm's law and Maxwell's equations have been misappropriated by today's philanderers.
I also wonder if SM's statement of the mystery process was just another diatribe of chicanery...
Quote from: wattsup on 2017.08.20, 16:59:38
I will be putting up a new SC based Periodical Table that will explain better the base of SC. I am looking to find a modern day Maxwell that could work out some math for more columns of the table and other math for producing some formulas based on nucleic heavy side and inertia. This could open up a whole new area of science.
Anyways, sorry, I know I am a ranter but sometimes I need to let out some steam, but let's move on brother.
wattsup
This wouldn't look like the typical table but it would have coloured overlays with the respective elements below. You'll need a few colours too. Some elements will fall into more than one category hence the overlays
I'd really like to see this Wattsup, I have my reasons.
Quote from: szaxx on 2017.08.21, 07:22:26
This wouldn't look like the typical table but it would have coloured overlays with the respective elements below. You'll need a few colours too. Some elements will fall into more than one category hence the overlays
I'd really like to see this Wattsup, I have my reasons.
Betcha it would be close to a Walter Russell table.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.08.21, 11:12:26
Betcha it would be close to a Walter Russell table.
Its along the some lines but not concentric or linear. I saw one over 30 years ago, I did my best to remember it and it didn't make sense until it was briefly described. Even then how it was worked out was beyond our known physics.
Replace the 1 turn to 4 turns. Effect still there.
Did not get an appreciable reading using the HV scope probe.
Inserted a 10kohm in series with the secondary probe. This brought the reading down to 170vpp.
With a 1k the reading is 1500vpp. My assessment then can easily go above 2kvpp.
I also got the mix headache the day after. Need to install a shield.
The mix can easily be garnered using iron wire. This is the secret.
I performed some tests using bifilar of copper and steel. I found the mix there too, steel being FeNi. Steel is an higher atomically aligned structure, we know this.
The Cu/FeNi tests needed higher frequencies.
Pulse specifications are:
Dual channels equal.
12vdc across both wires.
Secondary winding direction is clockwise from the make/beak point to end of 4th turn point. Will try counterclockwise also.
Drive voltage is 10vpp square wave, 5 dc offset to set 10vpp to 10dc.
Frequency is 7,200hz although this can be lower to 1khz.
Duty cycle is 20% although I saw the effect only appear here. Will retest this after shield is up.
Phase is 0% although at 10 turns and higher of .1 degree variance this had an effect.
A very simplistic build but again this is in the dangerous mode. At 4 to 10 turns the field takes a strange ramp up in amplitude like gel to stabilize instead of the snap on we typically see when turning on the pulses. With the 10k resistor inline with the scope probe the mix effect and the ramp up are still there although the wave form is less defined. But the artifact after the pulse is still there.
Will move the 4 turns to middle(like a multipactor) then to the far end.
@Szaxx,
More like a crystal ball(for lack of a better term)/glass sphere that one can look through at any angle and see harmonic/tonal/color paths?
Smoked another driver and it worked perfectly with DC tests. I'll build a current dumper with a 2n2222 through a low value resistor to see if this dies. Wierd things happening, I was using one lithium cell for power. Maybe their age is the problem.
The sheet was flat and the overlays transparent. Each element has its characteristics and some were in more than one 'reactive state' dictated by the overlays. The old table we use was known and came over as a two dimensional array. It reminded me of karnaugh mapping in their brief explanation.
What FETS are you driving and what is the driver name?
I think preschoolers should be taught Karnaugh mapping.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.08.21, 17:59:13
What FETS are you driving and what is the driver name?
A single IRF850 driven with an IRF7307 SMD. I've never had any problems previously. They're a few years old and still in their shielded packets. The 840 works fine so it's become a head scratcher from an electronic viewpoint.
Kids should learn K' mapping lol. It'd remove the subset nonsense we oldies were forced to learn in the 60's. Too simple and it was drawn out to total boredom, yet some kids still didn't understand. Go figure.
The header scratcher is the one reason I hate electronics. As a software developer whenever you return, things are as you left them and it simply works. Very miniscule parameters to deal with.
But whatever I sink my teeth into I do.
My Moto is 'If I see a chink in the armor I own the suit.'
I had a private school math teacher in 6th grade that took the class all the way through senior calculus. We scorched the blackboard and loved it. I failed miserably in public school after that. Go figure. I caught back up on my own and in college. The system can't have just one good teacher. The students pick up on this.
Forgot to implement the magnet with the previous secondary attempts. Will go back and retry. But what we have seen in the past, hv and hf need current to motion the mag field. This could be different. I am used to throwing the hammer instead of a ballet of pirouettes.
I love the head scratching when it's a solvable necessity. I hate the failure of components when you are within their parameters. The repairs I've done in the 80's always had upgraded components as standard so the same fail didn't repeat. I was senior tekky in a shop and we seemed to get the jobs no-one would or could do. Vertical foldover in a portable TV that had been to many shops and the local college lecturer being a classic that couldn't be repaired. The guy could have bought 5 new TV's with what he paid but the sentimental value was above this. It took me half an hour to find the fault and another 15 mins to repair it. I didn't charge him as it was a challenge. Years later I went to the college studying for a HNC and met the lecturer. We had a laugh when I told him the problem. That was his head scratcher lol. I was enjoying complex numbers too in the math lesson, I had a knack of doing the simple ones in my head back then. It went pear shaped when the funding stopped. I couldn't afford it having a family etc so I lost out.
One of the back to back zener's was open circuit on the gate so I'll guess this is the main reason for the fails. It'd fit too as only one of the internal FETs is corrupted.
Another busy day so no progress until tomorrow.
@ALL
Even though there are few things to test, the variable still start adding up.
A photo of my set up. I took my big capacitor bank rack and used it to hold the iron wire in a way that could be easily manipulate variables.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.08.20, 20:05:24
I also wonder if SM's statement of the mystery process was just another diatribe of chicanery...
It has always been a concern @GK. We only know when we try as many variables as possible. But I think this is the right track to work only on the simplest common threads between the devices. The more complicated the build the greater the variables but usually impossible to check them because the builds includes so many fixed parameters that are rarely considered. We need to keep it simple and work as many variable in that simple before we can have any confidence on any lead for cause/effect.
The topology is one thing. With the frequency generator having low amps but very good amplitude, width and frequency control we can hone in quickly of the various resonance peaks for all sort of mixes, but the FG will never replace the final driving circuit as far as I can understand has three possible ways of working;
1) The pulse side is isolated from the tank side.
2) The pulse side is in series and grows with the tank side.
3) The pulse side is isolated from the tank side but has its own tank to grow with the tank side.
Then the center toroid we can postulate base precepts but not too many to not created an overload of variables that would be hard to test. i think we should concentrate on the ring effects first, see where there are sweet effects and then try to integrate the toroid into the mix and see again the effects.
In the past, the TPU effort was a mishmash of so many orientations like BruceTPUs efforts were vast and taking many build premises that were mildly based on any observations of the videos and from there being on a wrong track is more a 10:1 certainty. Not saying I did not enjoy his work and determination and effort. Not at all. It is always better to try something then nothing but this time we need to take it slow, take a few chunks, work them out, then small changes, small additions, not more then what the FTPU could harbor, not more. We need to hone in on that one effect.
@GK the iron wire, called bailing wire includes many wire types that are not all iron. It would be one of the major sides of this.
http://www.nebalingwire.com/
Regular cheap iron wire will most likely have many impurities which could be an analog to series resistors to the effects. When SM said "bailing wire" we think it is iron wire but the bailing wire industry sees it as many possible types.
Also, I had a few car radio antenna solid whips. I tried one on the scope and it seems to be 10 times more reactive to a magnet then the iron wire. The whip is just too thick though but just wanted to try something non iron.
Question: If you look at the bailing wires on that site, could silver wire be considered by Sm as bailing wire? Looks the same.
Let's keep on.
@szaxx
I'll put up this SC excel sheet in a few days in one of my present threads to not clog this thread.
wattsup
With keeping things simple it may be prudent to only use what was available at the time of the initial units construction. Back then the only bailing wire I had met was flat bluish steel strapping which when coiled up looked like a core from a toroidal transformer.
The XL spreadsheet loaded and I needed to download an app to read it. To load data and save it they wanted cash each month which isn't happening lol. I've never really used XL.
@Szaxx, Look at open source for excel.
@Watts, I agree with what you are saying. Also I do have silver coated stranded wire that I can try. This does now ring a bell. The small volume of of Litz wire would react the same a the silver coated wire as long as the silver was stranded. The thin coat of silver makes a very high speed runway over top of the copper which points back to the old axiom that the signal travels on the outside of the wire where the none magnetic silver is. Things that make one go Hmmm.
This was a build proposed by Marco to JDO300 and I. It showed more of the process in the build than it produced. But then again we didn't have the insight we have now. The black stranded runs are not silver wire but I think we were being shown that this should be iron wire by the color. And once again the helical antenna on that same run.
Due to the nature of the previous educational paradigm, this is a slow crawl out of hell.
Waiting for a replacement sig gen is also a slow crawl.
Back to experimenting when it arrives yay!
Tuesday next week is the earliest delivery date so more waiting DOH!
Until then, fit a new toilet, plaster the wall after removing the radiator and altering the plumbing for a slightly larger one. Size the wall then paper it and build a match-board pipe hide with a plant holder atop.
Looks like I'm busy and that 250K price tag is becoming more entertaining.
@ALL
OK, one of the main aspects of trying to work our this SM thing is the FTPU. Trying to eliminate causes of effects is just as important as finding causes for effects. During this weekend there was nothing worth making a video on. I tried in so many variable ways the iron wire and magnet effect and must say there is nothing. I am more then convinced now that the FTPU magnet is exactly as I had shown back in 2009 and of which I am putting up some images done then. The magnet is used to latch a reed relay this is inside that shrink wrap at the right of the magnet placement. Nothing more, nothing less for the magnet, but what is great about taking that one FIXED stance is from there you can at least start to work out the rest of the topology of the FTPU and from there all we need to show is a steady 70 volts dc output with no indication of amperage. All we need to do is produce 70 volts.
Looking back at my images I put up then without paying that much attention to the meanings, so I am just happy that I did those then (eyes better then) and not having to do it today. Under the right side of the magnet, under the top reel SM hid what looks to be a 9 volt battery, so that will be another base for now. It could be a rechargeable model which would be very suitable. There is a white wire coming up from the toroid, going right then down to the reed. The other side of the reed is going into a hole down to the battery underneath, from there it comes back up and through one transistor where it then goes to outer rings. There is a silver capacitor or I sometimes called it a crystal but that is probably used to produce the base timing for the capacitor.
But what I can drag out of all this at this point is that on side of the center toroid is on one side of the relay, then it goes to the battery, then it goes to the transistor, then it goes to the outer rings. This means half of the toroid seems to be in series with an outer ring with the transistor in between. That for me is just fantastic because it provides a half coil syndrome solution that could be deployed either for the rings or the toroid halves.
Now, what @GK found about the four turns produced the best output says a lot for other avenues of R&D. So if you take those four turns on that one ring, if you made 10 four turn secondaries on that one ring, all put in parallel, because we know putting them in series will not add that mush more to the total voltage, this will produce the same voltage but at 10 times more amperage. That is a good place to be, easy to test and then if you had 20 of those rings being pulsed, it would not cost that much more energy to do so but you will be getting 10 times more output in terms of the amperage. That is a great place to side step the FTPU and go on a new line that in my view may or may not be SM related but still interesting enough to look at.
Anyways let's keep on.
wattsup
When I find things out where I stand alone I think alone. But when others are affirmative my head explodes with delight. Saying:
QuoteUnder the right side of the magnet, under the top reel SM hid what looks to be a 9 volt battery, so that will be another base for now. It could be a rechargeable model which would be very suitable.
This IS the rechargeable stungun that is in ALL Don Smith's devices. Don's devices follow the Multipactor/Floating Kapanadze design. And lets not forget SM's statement of 5khz! IT is like I had stated back in 2006 "It's an open face microwave/stungun". In Don's video where he is standing there with that line indicator flashing? OMG, the headaches!
SM's chicanery about the magnet then points to that the device is magnetic(DUH) and he hid the reed switch not only in the device but behind the magical magnet. Typical prestidigitational effort.
Maybe the magnet has a use when this device is charged up?
And the gold nugget?
QuoteSo if you take those four turns on that one ring, if you made 10 four turn secondaries on that one ring, all put in parallel
Multipactor - Multipactor - Multipactor - Multipactor - Multipactor - Multipactor - Multipactor - Multipactor - Multipactor - Multipactor, boom!
(Sound like a TPU cheerleading song with pompoms, half dressed jigglies and glitter)...
It is a good day to be an Earthling...
Now the safety caveat: I did @Wattsup's 6 inch horseshoe shaped lamp wire test with 10 turns magnet on each end. Tapped a nine volt battery to the magwire and it glitched my scope. Then I switched in 48 volts. Not good! This was the iconic build that transformed my marriage and the neighborhood.
The test bench was also quite the rat's nest of other projects and alot of leads all over the place.
Had to add this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abNfUiH80mY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abNfUiH80mY)
Been thinking about the active emp field of this current build.
I will draw up a 3d graphic of it.
Right now I have the latest coil built and tested the secondaries. The field is intensely 3d like in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImF-yomfCss&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImF-yomfCss&feature=youtu.be)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4llJqo6eYdM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4llJqo6eYdM)
The vids look promising GK, even with the missed one.
Sine or pulse to drive?
Now as the ringdown takes longer, does a single pulse do anything? The you had a windup time as reported so it's one of the parameters that may appear on a single element.
Good work.
12vpp across the the coils.
Both channels are 7.2khz square wave, 20% duty cycle each.
Channel 2 / Secondary / yellow trace has -359.9 degree phase difference. Which means the secondary fires after the primary by 100th of a degree.
Am recalibrating scope. The signal ramp down was a function of the scope. Have since switched out taking averages back to sample rate of 4. I thought I blew my scope. Now I can not get back to the high voltages. Must have been when the scope got glitched that the readings got mangled.
The output now is 48vpp. Maybe this is the signal aloofness that SM experienced? Am investigating the voltage drop across the series resistor on the scope probe to make a better valuation and protect the scope at the same time.
No tanking yet or testing to burn out an LED. Will do that. I am tempted to raise the voltage across the coil to 48dc but have apprehensions about that.
The timing may be important. If you know the frequency and the mark space ratio you can work out the pulse length. If the 100th of a degree isn't measurement error you can also work out its length and if possible shorten your mark space ratio to match. I had considered a pulse length a while ago at low frequency to obtain the best ringing and then shorten the gap between pulses so they add. The easiest method is using two 555's followed by a high speed Schmidt trigger with a buffer. I made one years ago for an inverter and the efficiency went really high. I never considered using this for the test coil. It would supply us with a more precise pulse width and then the frequency can be altered for best output. The inverter was above 90% efficient using a toroidal standard transformer based on limited measurements. The primary driving coil was center tapped and driven in push pull configuration. A single ended configuration would suffice for our testing. With today's digital chips running at crazy speeds it may be worthwhile building a circuit using these instead of 555's.
Not received the replacement sig gen yet. Its still in transit.
My newest siggen has phase down to only 100nth of a degree change. I will have to keep hunting.
I have a Linear comm board 509 and a linear 726A board to 69mhz. And they have Arduino compatibilty connection software.
The stand alone operation is freq only to 2 channels and the software is lame, freq only. There is an SDK and I could go that route to get the phasing even smaller if need be.
Hunt the Wumpus again. Funny how initially ya turn something on and it works. Then you interrogate the operation away.
But what is really bizarre is the when the readings were so high the scope still mearsured correctly in other tests. Anutha head scratcher.
http://futurism.com/an-electric-revolution-new-study-shows-fluid-like-motion-of-electrons-in-graphene/ (http://futurism.com/an-electric-revolution-new-study-shows-fluid-like-motion-of-electrons-in-graphene/)
http://futurism.com/graphene-computers-work-1000-times-faster-use-far-less-power/ (http://futurism.com/graphene-computers-work-1000-times-faster-use-far-less-power/)
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.08.30, 00:02:59
My newest siggen has phase down to only 100nth of a degree change. I will have to keep hunting.
I have a Linear comm board 509 and a linear 726A board to 69mhz. And they have Arduino compatibilty connection software.
The stand alone operation is freq only to 2 channels and the software is lame, freq only. There is an SDK and I could go that route to get the phasing even smaller if need be.
Hunt the Wumpus again. Funny how initially ya turn something on and it works. Then you interrogate the operation away.
But what is really bizarre is the when the readings were so high the scope still mearsured correctly in other tests. Anutha head scratcher.
If the readings were high and other readings true, perhaps they were too. We know that a tiny change in anything even relative humidity does affect some circuits greatly.
The boards look good, what are the harmonics like at top scale? In some units they're quite high.
I tend to make a designated circuit when I need something that's not catered for with standard equipment. Finding time to do this is the biggest challenge lol.
A package has arrived so I'll see if things are back on track again .
@Zsaxx,
About the siggeny. Another set of eyes on this will be great.
But the artifact is still there.
We need to obtain a direction to travel in for experiments. At present the sine wave gives little in comparison to the square wave on the scope. However the sine hasn't yet been tested with one cycle, or better a half cycle. The harmonic content displayed, will be inherent to the windings and not as a result of those injected by a square edged wave.
I'm looking at the artifact and I'm hoping it's not jitter from the feed signal. As square edged wavefronts contain certain harmonics the length of the pulse will dictate which of these take precedence in a resonant circuit and whichever are out of phase with the falling edge. Im sure you're aware that a perfect 50% duty square wave has zero second harmonics present which is likely to influence the resonant circuits displayed harmonic content. A short pulse will have some second harmonic content, a half sine pulse that matches the resonant frequency adds no harmonics and the display will show the natural characteristics of the coil in theory.
A very short transient is loaded with harmonics and so far this is the route many of us have taken.
To create a half sine would require a clean oscillator for the sine, a squaring circuit, a 4016 switch, a divider for pulse time switching and possibly a delay to remove any zero point switching offset created by the circuits hang time.
This is why I tend to make my own circuits as I've not found any function generator generally available that can produce this waveform unless you own a bank with cash to burn. A digital program can produce this easily but the bits per second will need to be high and the following filter will also need to be very carefully set to remove distortion.
Do we need to go to these lengths though?
They'd show any anomaly and remove the possible jitter but is it worthwhile building such a circuit when things like a multipactor have been mentioned especially when an EHT rectifier tube/valve has the required internal dimensions to act as one?
On a different subject, the package contents were another scope and connections made with the sig gen proved the sig gen is the problem.
I'm waiting for a return mail to see what occurs next. I'm tempted to simply buy another genny especially if the second scope is kindly donated for the inconvenience. It would also hit the nail on the head for the drivers smoking.
Its now another waiting game...
Thoughts.
@GK
I saw your last two vids. Great move and love them crickets in the background. Very soothing. Very zen.
So to simplify this discussion let's just call the iron wire the primary or pri. The secondaries as sec, secs (not sex) or sec1, sec2, sec3 where sec1 is the secondary closest to the make break side of the primary.
I know you are presently into pulsing both the primary and secondary and i will weigh tin on that on another post later but I think without changing the build there are some preliminaries needed. @szaxx I am also following your foray and wish you the best. My lack of comments is to not mix up things more then they should be.
OK, where to start? Your pri is now x length with 10 x 4t secs spread evenly on all the length and not just the first half, so just leave it like that so we can all learn a few things as it is.
By the end of these trials it should give you a better idea on what is going on and what resonance is in a wire. This may be somewhat tedious but in such conditions one has to take this methodically and you will quickly understand why.
You will need some paper to take down some values as you go along. You'll need a fast diode like the 1N5817 or 1N5819 going to a capacitor. I use a 10uf 370 volt, but whatever you have around should do as long as it is not too high in uf. The tank will act like an rms agent so readings will be steady. Depending on the pulse strength, you may elect or not to put on a few leds as a load as long as they are used throughout the test to produce that same data. A volt meter across the capacitor would be a good idea or you can use your scope since it does give out the voltage readings but if voltage gets too high please be careful with the scope.
There are two ways to use the pri. Either it is pulsed to the sec resonance or pulsed to its own resonance. We'll start with the former.
So you pulse the pri to the sec1 resonance, write down the pulse frequency, width and amplitude and the voltage reading or grab the scope screen. Repeat for Sec2 and so on. Resonance point will be the point of highest voltage output. As you approach Sec10 if the voltage readings are too low just try to find any peak possible in the same range. So you will have 10 data point lines. What we want to see is if the resonance frequency for the secs are in the same range as we go from sec1 to sec10 and what are their output levels. We also want to confirm the sec polarities at resonance.
OK, next. This time you scope the pri and pulse it to its own highest resonance point and keep it there so it does not change. Then tank and read sec1, then sec2 and so on and write their voltage outputs or scope grabs. Here as well we want to see how a pri at resonance will be conveyed to the secs as you get further from the make break point.
Hopefully with the above small tests these will open up new avenues for you and others to see and anticipate effects and figure out news ways to do small tests that tell you more then most big checkmate builds.
OK, another point. When you have 10 secs that are in parallel on one pri, if one of the secs does not output its fair share of the total output, what does that sec become? Right, it becomes a load like a heat source. If one of the secs polarity is not in sync with the others what does it become? Right, it becomes a cancellation source. These all have to be checked one by one to then confirm all 10 secs are confirmed for polarity before going to parallel.
After these small tests we can have a good discussion on what was learned and then we can explore ways to then integrate SMs discussion about the canon to cannon effect with this same build.
Hope I am not overburdening you or others who may think this is all useless.
Keep up the good work and most important don't lose the passion.
wattsup
I take it that the secondaries are of the same length, accurately cut and then the question of how thick is the primary? If we are to apply a pulse to bring the core somewhere near saturation it needs to be quite thin. If we're resonating protons or similar then a slightly thicker cross section may be beneficial. I can now see why you mentioned using thin wire for the secondaries. My thinnest litz is way off the mark unless I strip a long wave winding from a old ferrite rod antenna. Magnet wire, I have 45 swg which maybe too thin and others up to around 14 swg.
A 64 core litz times ten, in parallel is getting close to the 1000 wires mentioned way back lol.
The passion is growing, the foray is but an inconvenience.
A new genny is on its way and it looks like I keep the second scope too. Time will tell.
QuoteIf we are to apply a pulse to bring the core somewhere near saturation it needs to be quite thin. If we're resonating protons or similar then a slightly thicker cross section may be beneficial.
The thicker the core the more current is needed. We know this. Therefore the iron wire in the box stores is thinner than 10 years ago. That is why before I mentioned the iron versus steel wire. The thin wire can create a magnetic field easier. I know I am stating the obvious here. But I have always oscillated between the thin and thick wire camps. But I mostly stayed with the thin wire because my concept was like a Tesla coil, we want to use what is external in the capacitive field than any internal properties. In other words the thin wire simply gives us a conduit to create the external field. The goal is to get outside the wire and not stay locked inside which is what the permanent magnet holder is showing us. Using Litz wire in conjunction with SMs 'Thousand wire' once again could be more double speak. He probably couldn't say 'thin wire'. But if one were to accept this and go with a thin wire design we enter into a thin wire secondary with a thin wire primary. If we look at the Magnacoaster build we see a thin wire primary up against a really thick wire secondary, which is the ferrous material with the little magnet ball attached to it. If we look at the Kapanadze build we see a thick wire build all the way through but the true secondary is the ground discharge path which is what he taps off of for energy extraction.
The theme is look at the secondary always to see what the builder is doing. If we get stuck in the copper or core we get nada.
Which leads me to resonance or spin conveyance. We are aligning the external supply of electrons to our favor which is a huge reservoir of free stuff.
Which makes me think of if we pull those captive electrons off the universe or the planetary magnet field it will simply fill the gap with more. We are cycling these through our build. The build is simply exciting the main and extracting. Like putting a hole in the bottom of a rain barrel we created. The container doesn't have to made of thick material.
I'll purchase some thinner wire as it's around 1mm in the present build. The 1000 wire comment did indicate litz as someone mentioned long ago and it would make perfect sense to use this 'wideband' wire. I'm going to demolish a long wave coil for the litz as it's quite fine and no doubt better than solid copper for our present experiments.
I almost had another head scratcher today. I made a CMOS oscillator and fed it's output through a cap with a variable resistor to VDD for pulse width reduction. When I connected it to the scope I was strangely amazed to see a distorted differential trace. After a few seconds I kicked myself realising I'd used a hex inverter and not a hex Schmidt. Schoolboy error lasting a few seconds, we can't have these idiotic moments occurring can we now? Lol.
@Watts,
I am returning to the original specs. I have a 2 foot iron wire length with (10) 4 turn Litz at 1.2 inch centers. The secondaries are not glues so I can move them around.
I have no FFT measuring capabilities at this time so hunting for specific resonances is time consuming.
Things are getting better. The sig gen has arrived, I've some finer iron wire and I've bread-boarded a variable pulse width generator.
Not yet located the litz as I put it in a safe place and it's too safe to find lol.
Construction will begin today.
At this point I have three builds:
A single loop iron primary with ten 4 turn Litz secondaries spaced and glued across the whole 2 foot length of the primary.
A straight iron primary with one length of Litz to vary the turns and positions, not glued.
A straight iron primary with ten 4 turns of Litz to vary the turns and positions, not glued.
@Szaxx,
If you have FFT capabilities then I would be interested in what your test shows in the data graph before I go hunt the wumpus here. It just takes too long as a starting point. I could use your range to at least gain a foot hold in the areas that show promise. I am thinking about buying an additional FFT scope if need be. But I would hate to have to do this for this one and only reason at this point. I am sure the ROI is worth though in the long run. Let me know.
I am going to start using my white board as background to document aspects of the builds.
All,
I have followed this thread for some time and if you don't mind me asking a question, what effect exactly are you all looking for?
Regards,
Pm
There is an artifact from the iron at a certain frequency (wave or transition) that appears in varying heights. This is the start of an EMP but we dont want that high level of energy. It leaves the source. We want a lower level to capture.
Don Smith labeled it 'Flipping the electron' whereas SM gave the analogy of bullets hitting a car. What I have not seen anyone talking about is the post event of the bullet analogy. Shoot a car and you leave holes. But shoot the aether and it heals itself or fills the void very fast. This is what we want to capture. Resonance allows us to cause an imbalance using very little to no current. We poke. We get out of the way. We harvest at intervals that do not affect how the iron responds. In a less than perfect sequence the artifact simply disappears quickly to any ground. Did not SM say 'You ground it, you lose it.'?
So, in this post I mentioned two of SM's verbal chicanery. But really, they were very specific clues. Most just did not finish the time sequence because they were looking to be spoon fed.
The artifact is responsible for resonant rise. I have achieved this in many builds because of the small ferrous content. Why am I pursuing this again? I want better control instead of blowing things up. This current build caused headaches. That is a clue that one is on the correct path. I now have a screen helmet that I put on. It is a less invasive way to protect myself than covering the whole build or bench. And it works. Yeah I know 'I wear a foil helmet.' It is funny how people are led to believe to laugh at reported idiocy, like they know 'Normal' better than others.
Also in case anyone is reading this for the first time I will restate it again: I am under a contractual agreement with the Dept. of Defense of the U.S. Government whereas I am not permitted to alter the economies of the United States or any other country. Read the fine print of a Top Secret Security Clearance and Oath. Nothing special. I am just in the system and must abide by the agreement as noted till the end date of the agreement.
I felt I was spoon fed therefore I return the favor for what I have gleaned from the history of this project. Hope this helps...
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.09.06, 22:51:49
There is an artifact from the iron at a certain frequency (wave or transition) that appears in varying heights. This is the start of an EMP but we dont want that high level of energy. It leaves the source. We want a lower level to capture.
Don Smith labeled it 'Flipping the electron' whereas SM gave the analogy of bullets hitting a car. What I have not seen anyone talking about is the post event of the bullet analogy. Shoot a car and you leave holes. But shoot the aether and it heals itself or fills the void very fast. This is what we want to capture. Resonance allows us to cause an imbalance using very little to no current. We poke. We get out of the way. We harvest at intervals that do not affect how the iron responds. In a less than perfect sequence the artifact simply disappears quickly to any ground. Did not SM say 'You ground it, you lose it.'?
So, in this post I mentioned two of SM's verbal chicanery. But really, they were very specific clues. Most just did not finish the time sequence because they were looking to be spoon fed.
The artifact is responsible for resonant rise. I have achieved this in many builds because of the small ferrous content. Why am I pursuing this again? I want better control instead of blowing things up. This current build caused headaches. That is a clue that one is on the correct path. I now have a screen helmet that I put on. It is a less invasive way to protect myself than covering the whole build or bench. And it works. Yeah I know 'I wear a foil helmet.' It is funny how people are led to believe to laugh at reported idiocy, like they know 'Normal' better than others.
Hope this helps...
GK,
Thanks, this helps a lot. O0
Regards,
Pm
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.09.06, 18:21:44
At this point I have three builds:
A single loop iron primary with ten 4 turn Litz secondaries spaced and glued across the whole 2 foot length of the primary.
A straight iron primary with one length of Litz to vary the turns and positions, not glued.
A straight iron primary with ten 4 turns of Litz to vary the turns and positions, not glued.
@Szaxx,
If you have FFT capabilities then I would be interested in what your test shows in the data graph before I go hunt the wumpus here. It just takes too long as a starting point. I could use your range to at least gain a foot hold in the areas that show promise. I am thinking about buying an additional FFT scope if need be. But I would hate to have to do this for this one and only reason at this point. I am sure the ROI is worth though in the long run. Let me know.
I am going to start using my white board as background to document aspects of the builds.
I'll build another driver using the 7307 as the new Genny kicks out 4 volts max and it's not high enough for sharp rise times directly into the 840. It shouldn't smoke the driver too as theres no unwanted offset with the replacement unit. First though I'll use the pulse width breadboarded mashup as this gives 12v max out.
Once done, the fft can be posted with a few pics.
Is there a sweet spot at a certain mark-space ratio or does it only appear with square drive around 7500 hz?
@GK
Resonance can be found with a scope or with a tanked led. The input/output COP business is not important. We will not fall into that trap. If your LEDS blow, then you will know.
What is needed to know is how the pulse on the pri will impart to each of those secs at their resonance and at what frequency.
You then want to know if you can identify which of those two wires from each sec are positive and negative. That can be done with a volt meter across the tank.
Also we need to know which pri pulse polarity is begin switched (preferably the positive side).
All this is required to then be able to work out an SM cannon to canon scheme that could be also considered squeezing the hose. The canon to canon squeezes the hose that feeds it.
Those small tests will also show other things but we can get to that when it comes up.
I wanted to post something but decided it would be better not to yet and anyways, what I will do is open up an old thread on my bench so that I do not impede on your thread while being free to post more specific SC related comparisons.
wattsup
QuoteConnect your coil via a VERY small capacitor, say 2PF to the signal generator high output and a high impedance RF voltmeter. Connecting directly via a 50 ohm source will damp the Q so much that you won't see any peak at resonance. Repeat the experiment using a 5 PF capacitor. This should give you a different(lower) frequency. As the self capacity of any coil worth wind is going to be lower then 20 PF, just dangling leads around it will totally the stray capacity of the coil. Now you have two equations, two frequencies, one coil, two capacities, Cs in series with 2 PF all in parallel with Cl and CS in series with 5 PF all in parallel with Cl.
I am having trouble finding 2 - 5 pf caps in my supply and my meters only measure .0nf
Quote from: giantkiller on 2017.09.07, 18:21:23
I am having trouble finding 2 - 5 pf caps in my supply and my meters only measure .0nf
You can make 2pF capacitors using short lengths of twisted pair wires. (I know from experience that a twisted pair of enameled wire makes a 50 ohm transmission line). So you can twist up a long length where you can measure the capacity between the two wires and then simply cut off the length you need for your 2pF. If you can't do that measurement then feed a pulse down the line and scope the pulse reaching the other end. You can then get the time delay. You can even try different load resistors to find the value that minimises reflections and that gives you its impedance Z. Then distributed C in F/m is given by C=Tau/Z where Tau is the distributed time delay in seconds/m, i.e. the time delay of your line divided by its length.
Smudge
You can find the capacitance per foot in twisted pair data sheets ( belden cable). Or twist a couple of inches of sold core wire together. Its a well known trick for fine tuning VHF tank circuits quickly.
Take a look at this strange effect I found, setting the sig gen to scan from 9-10MHz blocks of inactivity appeared. This was done on an initial setup with no measurements made just to prove the circuit would function. I'll repeat it without the coil present to see if it's not something with data meshing.
https://youtu.be/CaeUPLLsVes
(Not sure how to make it appear on the page hence the link).
@GK and @all
Did not want to wait until most get their tests done to go to the next stage.
So once anyone does the previous post you should know by pulsing that iron wire in one specific polarity, the resulting polarities and outputs of sec1 to sec10 documented with the resonance frequency and other infos.
For now we will add P = Positive and N = Negative.
So what's next? Let's look into how we can use the canon to canon analogy with iron and copper atoms. OK, take the Sec1 P and connect it to the iron wire between Sec1 and Sec2. If the insulation was taken off the iron wire between those 4 turn secs the Sec1P could slide between the two. Now scope the Sec2 while you find its pulse resonance and compare to your first data.
Then take the Sec2P and connect it between Sec2 and Sec3 and pulse and scope Sec3 to its resonance. Do you get the idea? Let's see if adding the Sec1P to the pulsed iron wire will add to Sec2 and so on. That would be a good canon to canon (secs discharging to the iron wire pri) and squeezing the hose (pri). Write down the results.
I'm trying to show you how to look for things. If the system can stay in DC, it will be additive on the iron wire that will convey the total to sec10. If it is AC then one needs to play with phasing and that could be with the sec1-9 P sliding. Don't know. Also if it is AC leaving those Sec2 then each P that goes on the iron wire will create its own off phase creating more peaks that could simulate dc with slight hash.
The iron wire can act like a lamination conveyance while the sec1-9 additive nature can help increase the number of iron wire active atoms (current/amperage) per sec stage all delivered to the last sec10 as output. Sec10 could then be experimented for longer wind but never the turns should touch.
That is a good avenue to test. If the second toroidal coil can be pulsed to resonance it would consume low power but the pulse system needs to have as good a voltage tolerance as the wanted output on sec10. This way the pulse system can ramp up to the wanted output voltage while remaining inline with the gaining process. So if working for an output in the 100 volts range the transistor should be able to pass 100 volts but start at 20-30 volts and ramp up. This way you are not wasting anything on a step down method to loop it back.
Remember when SM took off the magnet on the FTPU it started dropping from 70 volts to around 52 volts before he put the magnet back on. Why did he not wait a little longer to let it ramp all the way down? Is it because we would have seen the ramp down stop at a certain voltage?
I will leave the Sec N's to you to figure out where they can go.
Now this point we can take the iron wire terminals and put them across a tanked 1:1 isolation toroid coil (like the SM center toroid) or transformer. Now pulse the other toroid coil to the resonance and tank off sec10 with sec1 to sec9 in canon mode.
I know this is not a simple one two step but if there is anything in this, that one first ring could then be paralleled with many more. That's how to do it man.
Oh, one last thing that I should have explained at the start. It is always better to pulse the positive of the iron wire. The World as the negative is already all over. You can get negative from the ground at millions of amps if the positive side demands such a level of coil reclaim. If you pulse the positive side, when the pulse is off the negative will convey back into that pulsed half of the coil or iron wire and push back the positive conveyance back into the source if you have a charging diode. But you cannot do that when pulsing the negative. The reclaim will produce a negative conveyance that you cannot tank that easily. Better to always pulse the positive side (that half of change) and let the always present negative to reclaim it. You may find that by Sec5 or 6, the canon to canon is no better so you stop there and let the rest of the iron wire empty as we had originally looked at.
By contrast, if you pulse the negative as most do, now the positive has to reclaim that second half of the coil and it is the negative pulse ON that pushes back that positive conveyance from the second half back into the first half of the coil but the negative stops at the coil center and the positive reclaim it did gets lost in the first coil half that is always positive biased. You are just taking from the battery and can never give anything back except by an isolating tank that returns a stepped down voltage to the source.
Either that or invent a way to charge a battery source by trickle charging the negative side.
Positive and negative are not two power currents traveling in a wire in opposite directions. All the polarity does is sways the conductive atoms nucleus from left (negative) to right (positive) or however. That's all electricity ever was and the sooner guys learn this, the sooner builds will take on new topologies because you will understand how the conveyance occurs. If you want, don't call it Spin Conveyance but instead call it EE version 2. Just replace electron travel with nucleic left/right sway. Simply saying left/right is figurative since it could be up/down all depending on the atoms placement setting the latent state direction of the nucleic heavy side. So easy even kids will learn this quickly.
wattsup
Absolutely fascinating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pitwnMK-RxU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pitwnMK-RxU)
And yes, this applies to current traveling around a wire.
Hi @Wattsup and all,
I am in between tirdnests and have a time to supply to this.
Quotethe Sec1P could slide between the two
Could this better phrased? Between what two?
Could you post a line drawing or something of exactly that part?
Or chicken scratch my picture here.
Thank you.
@GK
Great to see that you put the 10 Secs on the first half. I modified your photo to show how I think some R&D can show something new in terms of effect that will fall under the SM cannon to cannon analogy.
What I recommended at first was to get a steady base by simply pulsing the pri (iron wire) and measuring off each of those secs as individual outputs. We already know that the output should decline from each sec as we reach Sec10 but since all the secs are now on the first half that decline will be much less from sec to sec.
Since you showed your first 10 coil spread across the total length of the iron wire the output of each secs as we progress to Sec10 would have been more pronounced as after all that you would have seen that the secs after the first pri half would have outputted less then 25% of the total outputs. That is the half coil syndrome we see in all our pri to sec relations.
The idea of putting all those secs in parallel would have then resulted in such a great spread of output levels between those secs that some of them, the ones on the second half would have acted more like a load to the first half instead of acting like an additive. So having those 10 secs on the first half now means those coils are now producing more in an additive nature then as a load to each other.
The idea of then putting the positive output of Sec1 onto the iron wire between Sec1 and Sec2 is as follows. Since the pri is receiving a DC pulse, we know that it will impart to the Secs and if those Secs can output DC, then the positive going back onto the pri will (or should) work as an additive pulse that may have a slight delay. The Sec 2 will see the pri pulse plus the Sec1 added and now if you put the Sec2 positive onto the pri between Sec2 and Sec3, now the Sec3 should see the pri pulse, the Sec 1 additive and the Sec 2 additive. As we go along the output waveform as we progress should have more of a straight line DC peaks performance from all those added sec positive going back to the pri so on Sec10 if you see more energy output then you saw when just pulsing the pri and scoping the Sec10, then we will know that such a scheme is valid and now we can play with other variables like now sliding the secs to see if there is better output. If there is, then we know that the pri does produce nodal peaks. We can then play with more turn of the Secs always making sure each turn does not touch the next in order to keep inter turn cancellation to a minimum.
@GK, if this works and shows an increase, it will produce a whole new way of playing and thinking about our energy production. The part that shows HCS cannot be explained by standard EE because for standard EE the "electron travel is so fast that there should be no reduction as you go from Sec1 to Sec10. But there will be so one can only realize that this is a physical atomic event and not an etheric electron travel event. Just simple ways to see and understand that whatever we do, we are playing with very talented atoms that have abilities that have been misunderstood and taken over by stories of electrons and fields. Base rule: The atoms taking part in the effect are 100% responsible for the effect.
The difference between this way and how @otto's coil (remember that 10 or 12 turn coil with one end passing though the center) is that the turns receive from a central pri and then impart that back to the central pri. In @otto's method of those turn making an auto-excitation of itself is shock full of cancellation potential that would make it very hard to work as we have seen in the past.
We know the pri conveys to the Secs. We just want to increase the pri strength with each Secs output added back to the pri to make more atoms convey per stage all with the same original pulse on the pri. If this is possible, it just opened up a new way to play as I am repeating I know but just cannot spell it out more clearly.
wattsup
I totally understand the concept given here.
I will strip the iron wire and connect the Sec1P to that place. It will wrap against the bare iron wire and it will be clipped around with paper and plastic doodads(technical term that might be misleading to some). At this point I am wary about using metal clips. I cannot use solder as the heat of the solder exceeds the viability of the Litz diameter. It just melts away.
When you mentioned Otto's loop I had realized that when I did my tests I had wrapped the windings tightly. This was incorrect as Otto showed the windings as open air much like Kapanadze. And some of my tests were loosely wound which gave different effects. Oh the nuances...
Interesting result from stripping the insulation between the secondaries. The stripping section allows previous secondary can now slide freely while attached to the insulation because the insulation slides on the iron wire. I could apply adhesive to the secondary to adhere it to the insulation because it slides but the I couldn't change the windings. I could just glue the first winding of the secondary just to hold it on the sliding insulation.
This new finding could prove instrumental. Nothing really electronic in the testing. Just a unseen benefit.
And when I get through 5 of the 10 secondaries I realize that I could have stripped the whole iron wire to begin with. Since the Litz wire has insulation this could have a larger benefit as the distance of the Litz wire is now closer to the primary.
I've not yet tried to space the secondary windings to see a difference but will as soon as time allows. Stripped the iron and made a paper masking tape slide, winding directly on the iron has removed some of the secondaries insulation which was initially interesting as the scope showed an increase at certain points where the iron wires' kinks are. So far the half coil effect is clear and more voltage may be required to see anything unexpected occurring.
More available time would be nice lol.
Resurrecting the Lazarus thread, again. C.C
I recently ran across the comms.txt compilation that I had not before (presumably a full compilation of emails between SM and Lindsey Mannix). Much of which I had not seen before with details that are not in other.pdf compilations. However, there is a lot of side-conversation and banter, so it is a very long read.
I condensed out a compilation of the most technical and detail-specific posts in the text. A 'best of' series from the full compilation. ;) ;)
Perhaps some posts might be new to some of you as well? ^-^
Nice "best of" compilation. It appears your "ordering" supports a "theme".
Now read this thread as much of it as you can and substitute iron wire instead of copper wire.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3584.msg66480#msg66480
Let me know what you think.
BTW, the original comms.txt file is and always was out of order timewise. I spent some time trying to put it all in the proper time ordering, and it's still a work in progress which i have not yet posted.
Regards
ION
Quote from: ION on 2018.05.27, 18:14:42
Nice "best of" compilation. It appears your "ordering" supports a "theme".
BTW, the original comms.txt file is and always was out of order timewise. I spent some time trying to put it all in the proper time ordering, and it's still a work in progress which i have not yet posted.
Regards
ION
You're right ION, my ordering was less about date and more about the theme of the post (whether SM's talking in metaphor describing the process, details about materials used, details about winding characteristics, details about certain devices, etc).
Quotehttp://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3584.msg66480#msg66480
Let me know what you think.
It looks like many of us are finally starting to converge onto similar paths. O0 Yes, I have also been pondering and tinkering with techniques of using pulses to generate stable DC outputs. I do have a ~10% efficient Cu+Fe transformer that outputs primarily DC over certain frequency ranges.
QuoteNow read this thread as much of it as you can and substitute iron wire instead of copper wire.
Yep. Nickel seems to be a very interesting ferromagnetic metal as well. ;) It also has a more predictable saturation curve and is much more conductive.
Studying the differential properties between all the different metals and alloys could prove quite productive. Luckily we get some help by using NMR/NAR charts, speed of sound in material, conductivity, inductance, permeability, permitivity to help guide us..
The overarching question is: what materials make the best emitters and which make the best receivers? (I think a galvanic series table may be the best answer to that question.)
My favorite snippet is:
YES, we also used two different metals in the development of the technology. - SM
(It's possible that neither one of those is copper..)
Dear Reiyuki
So we seem to be converging on a possible method. I've always maintained that DC output with some hash on it was the predominate output of the SM TPU, as he himself states. No rectifiers, just the nature of the beast.
you said:
QuoteI do have a ~10% efficient Cu+Fe transformer that outputs primarily DC over certain frequency ranges.
I would love to see that, as a transformer that outputs DC defies the known dogma. Everything should balance out to zero DC unless there are some non-uniform saturation effects.
Could you provide some info on the setup and test method?
Quote(It's possible that neither one of those is copper..)
Quite true yet we do know there was a high iron content from the video where he goes all around the 17" unit and then switches hand position (lets go) of the magnet while it just sticks to the wire. We clearly see large diameter horizontal wires in that unit.
He also mentioned that one unit worked especially well with corroded wire.
quote SM
QuoteBy the way, something strange is that, once I made a unit with some old corroded wire for the collector and it worked very well for it's size. I made another identical collector with shiny new wire and it did not work quite as well. I never found out why, but there was a difference. I did not spend too much time on the curiosity because I had unlimited funding and a whole room full of every kind of wire there was.
There is a hypothesis by Barbat and others that electrons can travel extremely fast (compared to drift velocity) in a thin film of surface oxide on a wire.
Regards
Quote from: ION on 2018.05.27, 19:43:51
I would love to see that, as a transformer that outputs DC defies the known dogma. Everything should balance out to zero DC unless there are some non-uniform saturation effects.
Could you provide some info on the setup and test method?
You're probably right about saturation effects. ;D I have two setups that result in DC. I don't think either one is 'magic', but they do provide some insight as to how predominantly DC outputs may be obtained in a coil.
First setup seems to rely on saturation/relaxation and works best at low (<100khz) frequencies. A current transformer is used backwards, to inject current into a ferromagnetic wire. Flyback pulses are picked up in that wire. The wire seems to bias itself when partially loaded which is nice.
Feeding DC pulses results in predominantly DC pulse output over a wide frequency range (with a little 'hash' :D). Though it would likely output AC if you fed it directly with AC.
Easiest way to check for DC output is at a very low voltage with 1 LED facing each direction.
Also note that you are picking up the BEMF.
A BEMF suppression diode along your MOSFET will eliminate the effect (it has to free-wheel).So start with very low voltage and very low pulses while watching your scope so you don't release the magic smoke in your MOSFET.
Second setup relies on capacitive coupling. It is less overt and occurs over a more narrow range. But it is fully DC depending and it only matters which leg of the secondary is grounded to the circuit. My setup in this case is steel bailing wire wrapped with a few hundred turns of ~28awg magnet wire over 1-2'.
At the 500k-4mhz range, capacitive coupling results in some small DC outputs on the magnet wire when the central core is pulsed. Since there is very minimal capacitance in the circuit, it occurs over a narrow range, and has much more 'hash'.
Quote from: ION on 2018.05.27, 19:43:51
snip
He also mentioned that one unit worked especially well with corroded wire.
quote SM
There is a hypothesis by Barbat and others that electrons can travel extremely fast (compared to drift velocity) in a thin film of surface oxide on a wire.
Regards
Interesting as here we get into Keshe and gans coating of wire (nanocoating?) where the resistance of a conductor can be reduced to zero.
Ron
Dear Reiyuki
I usually use a small R-C filter to integrate positive and negative pulses and DMM or scope across the C to look for the DC. Setups in the megahertz region can be tricky because of rectification artifacts in the measuring device (connector and switch oxidation plus other sources).
It requires good bench practice to sort all this out. So, I will try your experiments soon.
Ron
Regarding Keshe, interesting that he uses the nano-coatings....should also work on an insulator base if he is correct. Does anyone have any of Keshe's stuff working to demonstrate his claims?
Regards
Quote from: ION on 2018.05.27, 21:30:06
Regarding Keshe, interesting that he uses the nano-coatings....should also work on an insulator base if he is correct. Does anyone have any of Keshe's stuff working to demonstrate his claims?
Keshe falls into an odd category where there are few groups exist with the technical prowess to replicate if they wanted to. Intense vacuums, careful machining, electrochemical deposition, and precision gas-distribution is not easy for a garage tinkerer to replicate. The teams that do get positive results are probably under budget to someone and thus bound to NDA's (assuming the technology actually works) :-X.
---------------------------------------------------
Regarding possible metal compositions used, we have to consider SM's words and his position in the music industry. For wires other than copper, I suggest we consider the following:
* Iron/magnetic steel (mentioned throughout his emails, especially the NMR post). Common as '
Bailing wire' and SM referenced to iron nails being '
bent and shaped like cork screws' after TV explosion.
* Aluminum wire (bailing wire).
* Tungsten wire (
a literal interpretation of sm's vacuum tube descriptor). ^-^
* Brass wire (commonly sold as
music wire) ;) ;) ;)
* Stainless/high-carbon steel (non-magnetic, used for guitar strings and thicker wire is used as bailing wire).
* Brass wire twisted on steel wire (also music wire,
guitar strings)
* Litz wire ('
many short pieces of wire' quote)
* Silver coated wire (not mentioned by SM but used in high-end wiring, and often referenced in the OU community)
* Nickel wire (also not mentioned, but the only other common ferromagnetic metal available. Used in MuMetal and high permeable transformer cores. Sometimes used as resistance wire)
* Solder wire (Bismuth/Lead/Tin/Indium/Zinc alloys).
Nice study of some interesting wire types.
Wikipedia has a good entry on baling wire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baling_wire
edit: link fixed, accidentally left the "e" off wire
It is also known as Mechanic's wire 18 gauge black soft annealed or utility wire. It's a very soft steel wire but I have not found what causes the black surface, maybe some type of acid treatment. It is said to have some low carbon content, but is annealed to restore ductility after drawing.
http://www.annealedwire.org/annealedwire/blackannealedwire.htm
edit:found it here: http://www.ironwirechina.com/Black-Annealed-Wire/
Apparently fuel oil is injected as part of the annealing process, which probably creates the black appearance.
http://www.blackironwire.net/product/Black-Annealed-Iron-Wire.htm
QuoteAnnealed wire is fully softened low carbon steel wire. The tensile strength of the wire is slightly lower than low tensile galvanised wire, and the wire ductility is maximised. Black wire has a light coating of black soot.
Black soot is carbon, so a light coating of carbon.
The 16 gauge pure iron thermocouple wire I have on hand rusts very easily. Also I have some silver plated copper spools, and a host of other wire types including constantan, Chromel, Alumel, Tophet, various other alloys etc, but none of the lowly baling wire.
regards
https://www.balingwiredirect.com/blog/bailing-wire-vs-baling-wire/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baling_wire (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baling_wire)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.azom.com/amp/article.aspx%3fArticleID=590
Bismuth is an interesting metal that has some use in the experiments. As it's not been mentioned I thought it deserves a calling considering the second paragraphs contents.
Quote from: szaxx on 2018.06.04, 20:23:42
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.azom.com/amp/article.aspx%3fArticleID=590
Bismuth is an interesting metal that has some use in the experiments. As it's not been mentioned I thought it deserves a calling considering the second paragraphs contents.
Good point (I updated the original post to add solder wire which often contains bismuth alloys).
It's also worth noting that Bismuth is extremely diamagnetic, and was common in the early development of superconductors.
I note the interest here and in the Shoutbox on electron emission from different materials. The characteristic that determines ease of emission is the work function of the material. It may be of interest that for ferromagnetic materials the work function can be changed by the application of a magnetic field via the MagnetoCoulomb Effect. See attached pdf that explains it somewhat.
Smudge
I have just noticed that my paper in the previous post did not include reference [1]. Here is a copy.
Quote from: Smudge on 2018.06.05, 20:00:56
I note the interest here and in the Shoutbox on electron emission from different materials. The characteristic that determines ease of emission is the work function of the material. It may be of interest that for ferromagnetic materials the work function can be changed by the application of a magnetic field via the MagnetoCoulomb Effect. See attached pdf that explains it somewhat.
Smudge
Hi Smudge,
I have just got back from Rome, "a bit of divine inspiration" ;) I have just read your paper and I find it very interesting as what I have designed, and still playing with it, could be deemed as within the same camp, or not.
Not sure you have seen it, but left a link in your mail box
Regards
Mike 8)
The spin...The Coler device, etc like the Johnson motor(generator 'side by side' with motor) all have a resonant external field. This is then a medium to swing or push against as to not break the collection but merely treat it like a water balloon/jello/mercury like substance. A minor 'in synch' nudge moves it in a certain direction and it gently returns for another push for free. Two items must be achieved, the medium and the nudge. These two are specific to the materials or configuration used. The thumps in the TPU are an event from the nudge of the medium. This thump is the resonant connection in the Johnson Motor. It is also in the Searle device as the previous connection pushes into the next connection. Esoteric materials or exotic configurations can also achieve this but to a greater degree of expense or complexity. The initial choice comes from one's experience as to what the make up is. This then leads to an specific configuration pertaining to the materials and configuration. Your choice. Good luck with the cost and complexity.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2018.06.06, 18:00:30
The spin...The Coler device, etc like the Johnson motor(generator 'side by side' with motor) all have a resonant external field. This is then a medium to swing or push against as to not break the collection but merely treat it like a water balloon/jello/mercury like substance. A minor 'in synch' nudge moves it in a certain direction and it gently returns for another push for free. Two items must be achieved, the medium and the nudge. These two are specific to the materials or configuration used. The thumps in the TPU are an event from the nudge of the medium. This thump is the resonant connection in the Johnson Motor. It is also in the Searle device as the previous connection pushes into the next connection. Esoteric materials or exotic configurations can also achieve this but to a greater degree of expense or complexity. The initial choice comes from one's experience as to what the make up is. This then leads to an specific configuration pertaining to the materials and configuration. Your choice. Good luck with the cost and complexity.
GK,
I agree with your assessment - I think it is consistent with Doc Stiffler's idea of pinging the spatio-temporal lattice to draw additional charge into his SEC as an open system.
Do you think combining resonant frequencies in two or more inductors to produce a heterodyning (and standing wave) effect could be a factor in to this dynamic with the TPU?
Bob
Quote from: Bob Smith on 2018.06.08, 18:11:49
GK,
I agree with your assessment - I think it is consistent with Doc Stiffler's idea of pinging the spatio-temporal lattice to draw additional charge into his SEC as an open system.
Do you think combining resonant frequencies in two or more inductors to produce a heterodyning (and standing wave) effect could be a factor in to this dynamic with the TPU?
Bob
Bing, bing, bing! We have a winner here! All joking aside, SM stated two frequencies just a bit off(see better description below). I have tested with this many, many times and gotten very good results. The best is two resonant rings apart a certain distance(think Kunel, attached). This creates a large cohesive magnetic toroid. Shock it with a short stun gun burst. The cohesive toroid breaks apart sending radio waves out(because SM stated it works like an AM radio). When that energy subsides the collapse back into cohesion creates a rogue wave with ringing, which is then caught inductively in the unit.
Better description:The GK4 had three frequencies and too much iron, not unlike a standard transformer. The GK4 device is like a magnetron but instead of a wave guide type configuration it operates in the 360 degree realm / spherical. In the final tests I shot myself. In pursuing the rogue wave I blew up two oscilloscopes, routers across the neighborhood, tvs and personal computers. My conclusion is: 'This works'. Because if the energy can be ejected it can be harnessed and put to use. In resonance the lattice remains stable and this is the least resistive array. Whenever the lattice is disturbed by an event it wants to return because nature abhors a vacuum. The chaos subjugates to unity. The unity is the implied pressure of applied resonant force.
Its another fine day on the planet.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2018.06.08, 18:44:28
Bing, bing, bing! We have a winner here! All joking aside, SM stated two frequencies just a bit off(see better description below). I have tested with this many, many times and gotten very good results. The best is two resonant rings apart a certain distance(think Kunel, attached). This creates a large cohesive magnetic toroid. Shock it with a short stun gun burst. The cohesive toroid breaks apart sending radio waves out(because SM stated it works like an AM radio). When that energy subsides the collapse back into cohesion creates a rogue wave with ringing, which is then caught inductively in the unit.
Better description:The GK4 had three frequencies and too much iron, not unlike a standard transformer. The GK4 device is like a magnetron but instead of a wave guide type configuration it operates in the 360 degree realm / spherical. In the final tests I shot myself. In pursuing the rogue wave I blew up two oscilloscopes, routers across the neighborhood, tvs and personal computers. My conclusion is: 'This works'. Because if the energy can be ejected it can be harnessed and put to use. In resonance the lattice remains stable and this is the least resistive array. Whenever the lattice is disturbed by an event it wants to return because nature abhors a vacuum. The chaos subjugates to unity. The unity is the implied pressure of applied resonant force.
Its another fine day on the planet.
Thanks for the bings :).
I'm going to assume that the "large cohesive magnetic toroid" is the standing wave, resulting from the heterodyning of the two resonant rings.
The "stun gun" shock (that breaks up the toroid, resulting in "radio waves" being sent out): You're talking about an abrupt HV discharge from a cap, I assume.
Just trying to work it out logically ...
- two resonant inductors, possibly from dissimilar metals, producing a standing wave
- an abrupt discharge from a cap, strong enough to disrupt the standing wave
- a collector to capture the "radio waves" ?
Does this seem on track?
Bob
Quote from: Bob Smith on 2018.06.09, 04:31:25
Thanks for the bings :) .
I'm going to assume that the "large cohesive magnetic toroid" is the standing wave, resulting from the heterodyning of the two resonant rings.
The "stun gun" shock (that breaks up the toroid, resulting in "radio waves" being sent out): You're talking about an abrupt HV discharge from a cap, I assume.
Just trying to work it out logically ...
- two resonant inductors, possibly from dissimilar metals, producing a standing wave
- an abrupt discharge from a cap, strong enough to disrupt the standing wave
- a collector to capture the "radio waves" ?
Does this seem on track?
Bob
You got it. But both rings are insulated iron or steel wire(garden wire). It hears magnetic noise from any angle. I blew the age old parallel coupling theory out the door with that find. Nothing difficult and keep it simple. The biggest clue SM stated was the parts come from radio shack, meaning local stores. Nothing exotic like the experts are trying out. Totally kitchen table builds. I reiterate the Kunel patent because the two resonant rings form both sides of the Kunel gap.
And there is one law: No finished demos of any kind. Better to be a living crack pot than a dead genius.
When you get the bubble its a real eye opener to play with. I built the Kunel patent with two air coils. I could move the coils apart and then find the weak field tension point to disrupt. The activity shows up on the scope without being attached to the circuit. At the time I used two scopes in synch with the four probes lingering in the ring quadrants to see the passage of the events swirl around the device. That is the rotating magnetic field that everyone tries to achieve. Heterodyning, then disruption. In one of the SM vids he swirls his hand in space around the rings.
With the way things are going on with this planet we don't have long.
The more recent posts reminded me of some of Harold Aspdens work, especially the jelly like reactive attribute of the aether or time space continuum if you prefer lol. The Aspden effect I've researched appears to temporarily increase the fluidity the aetheric mediums' consistency somewhat and resultantly appears to change it's parameters permitting an energetic flow with less power requirements than ordinarily absorbed. That said, switching off the supply commented by SM along with the massive magnetic field present in working units is pointing towards more feedback from the aether attempting to keep the resonance operational. Harold's work indicates that a substantial gain of energy is obtainable at resonance. This is definitely a great concern if we look at the Q factor we're familiar with in tank circuits. The kill switch must be implemented as SM advised. We know who's met this gain here and it's also mentioned in the Hendershot device.
Those scientific forums 'don't get it' as I had a good laugh reading their linear viewpoints. I was hoping to find support but they support old dogma etc. You know the rest.
https://www.haroldaspden.com/reports/01.htm
Theres a lot more which is interesting on this site as his family have given his work free to anyone hoping they'll find success in their endeavours.
Due respect to them.
Find the experiment where Harold Aspden discovered virtual inertia.
I found this movie on Amazon prime. I will watch it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B67QB7L?ref_=imdbref_tt_wbr_piv&tag=imdbtag_tt_wbr_piv-20 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B67QB7L?ref_=imdbref_tt_wbr_piv&tag=imdbtag_tt_wbr_piv-20)
Quotehttps://www.haroldaspden.com/reports/01.htm (https://www.haroldaspden.com/reports/01.htm)
This domain seems to be available.@szaxx, what was the title in the page? The book can probably be matched to the list in the next site.
Then I found this: http://tesla3.com/harold-aspden/ (http://tesla3.com/harold-aspden/)
But the Aspden.org seems to have commandeered also.
Old Faithful. kind of:https://peswiki.com/powerpedia:harold-aspden (https://peswiki.com/powerpedia:harold-aspden)
So I asked Google the question '
Electron mass raised with resonance?' (sounds like a potential Nobel prize to me):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_dipole_spin_resonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_dipole_spin_resonance)
My thinking is that resonance locks the electron in a quantised magnetic state in the flux raising the electron magnetic moment up a Bohr value thus increasing the magnetic field viscosity. Breaking sound with glass comes to mind. When the electrons are allowed to exist in a compound in their chaotic state the compound is stable. We then align the electron orbits hence their spin with ever increasing wave power and the compound is disrupted into instability thus breaking apart. But when a compound is created with its electron state in coherence we end up with stronger than previous materials called nanostructures.
So we have Aspden explaining it and Hutchison performing it. Pretty cut and dried. T.T.Brown demonstrating the viscosity by firing a Tesla coil into an aluminum disk and the disk focusing back the energy into the discharge point causing thrust.
What is truly interesting about Hutchison is he performed two events. Chaos and resonance. He pushed materials around(chaos) and he reordered electron bonding(resonance). Very far reaching findings.
And bringing it back around:https://www.scribd.com/doc/76567187/1995-Harold-Aspden-Discovery-of-Virtual-Inertia
(https://www.scribd.com/doc/76567187/1995-Harold-Aspden-Discovery-of-Virtual-Inertia)Attached...
Quote from: giantkiller on 2018.06.09, 17:34:06
So I asked Google the question 'Electron mass raised with resonance?' (sounds like a potential Nobel prize to me):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_dipole_spin_resonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_dipole_spin_resonance)
My thinking is that resonance locks the electron in a quantised magnetic state in the flux raising the electron magnetic moment up a Bohr value thus increasing the magnetic field viscosity.Breaking sound with glass comes to mind. When the electrons are allowed to exist in a compound in their chaotic state the compound is stable. We then align the electron orbits hence their spin with every increasing wave power and the compound is disrupted into instability thus breaking apart. But when a compound is created with its electron state in coherence we end up with stronger than previous materials called nanostrucures.
So we have Aspden explaining it and Hutchison performing it. Pretty cut and dried.
Thanks GK. If I'm interpreting correctly, then said a different way:
* Electric/magnetic impulses in a neutral condition cause a symmetrical equal-and-opposite reaction.
* Electric/magnetic impulses in a dynamic condition (ie: while current is flowing) causes asymmetric diversions to this already existing flow.
One question I still have, is what types of impulses are most responsible for the effects?
* A: Electric (voltage) impulses?
* B: Magnetic (current) impulses?
* C: EMF (total power) impulses?
(I would guess C, reasoning that HV circuits are often are used not because high voltages are required, but because they tend to generate the sharpest impulses. However it may also be B, reasoning that HV also generates larger magnetic currents)
On a related note, if this interpretation is correct, one would imagine that dielectric displacement current could also be used as a dynamic medium to apply impulses to? (ie: a charging/discharging capacitor)
"B" magnetic wave interference between two waves creates large circulating currents in ferromagnetic material. I believe it could be done using copper as well, but not sure how the pickup works for that.
Two iron loops surrounded by a copper coil or coils, when driven correctly, will produce voltage with a high potencial current.
The above is the basis of my experiments in this field, pun intended.
Regards
Mike 8)
Just a little fuel to the fire but hopefully seen as relevant or useful by some
Please read this before the rest and perhaps help clarify context.
Or even to discredit this approach would be interesting to me .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_galaxy
But how to arrange passive coils so that AC would create the revolving field centre ?
perhaps the ftpu had spirally wound quad sections ?
Perhaps if we make a perfect balance and upset it with a small magnet ?
Whatever the case the ftpu ,in my opinion was the likely cause of other information release which has been hacked and modified to be even more coherent than the broken pieces disclosed .
My approach is a centre torroid with litz wire which gives multiple windings with the same yet electrically isolated 0 and 180 phases which can be applied to the outer segments . and or outer racetrack( collector) . and or back to its self.
all very low power and looking for the spiral magnetic field that was known to occour at some distance with tpu operation. also any signs of self oscillation ( spin) but it is a chicken and egg scenario as it was for those who were involved.
sensitive magnetometers (tiny compasses if you like) are most useful .
This may be the only fact we have to work with bear in mind that this process was utilised by others yet no utilisation,ther must be a reason for that and it might not be what we would imagine from the outside lookin in.
My chronic fatigue syndrome came on in 2006 and i have very few good days of late . this is one of them.
I digress...
good luck to all ,whatever you visualize as this is more of a creative persuit that atechnical one however both apply .
Im sure that what i have described will make no sence to some .
3D
@3d:
QuoteI'm sure that what i have described will make no sense to some .
It is those that this makes to that can agree the aspects of the TPU are far reaching. I have never seen this much complexity or validity show forth from any charlatan.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2018.06.09, 17:34:06
I found this movie on Amazon prime. I will watch it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B67QB7L?ref_=imdbref_tt_wbr_piv&tag=imdbtag_tt_wbr_piv-20 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B67QB7L?ref_=imdbref_tt_wbr_piv&tag=imdbtag_tt_wbr_piv-20)
This domain seems to be available.@szaxx, what was the title in the page? The book can probably be matched to the list in the next site.
Then I found this: http://tesla3.com/harold-aspden/ (http://tesla3.com/harold-aspden/)
But the Aspden.org seems to have commandeered also.
Old Faithful. kind of:https://peswiki.com/powerpedia:harold-aspden (https://peswiki.com/powerpedia:harold-aspden)
So I asked Google the question 'Electron mass raised with resonance?' (sounds like a potential Nobel prize to me):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_dipole_spin_resonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_dipole_spin_resonance)
My thinking is that resonance locks the electron in a quantised magnetic state in the flux raising the electron magnetic moment up a Bohr value thus increasing the magnetic field viscosity. Breaking sound with glass comes to mind. When the electrons are allowed to exist in a compound in their chaotic state the compound is stable. We then align the electron orbits hence their spin with ever increasing wave power and the compound is disrupted into instability thus breaking apart. But when a compound is created with its electron state in coherence we end up with stronger than previous materials called nanostructures.
So we have Aspden explaining it and Hutchison performing it. Pretty cut and dried. T.T.Brown demonstrating the viscosity by firing a Tesla coil into an aluminum disk and the disk focusing back the energy into the discharge point causing thrust.
What is truly interesting about Hutchison is he performed two events. Chaos and resonance. He pushed materials around(chaos) and he reordered electron bonding(resonance). Very far reaching findings.
And bringing it back around:https://www.scribd.com/doc/76567187/1995-Harold-Aspden-Discovery-of-Virtual-Inertia
(https://www.scribd.com/doc/76567187/1995-Harold-Aspden-Discovery-of-Virtual-Inertia)Attached...
I managed to obtain Aether Theory before the site dissolved into the aether.
It's not yet compiled and as soon as it is, it'll be available to read. As it's given freely I can attach it if anyone is interested.
Attach it.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2018.06.12, 07:10:23
Attach it.
Found the Internet Archive version of the site. It looks like they scraped everything ;D ;D O0:
http://web.archive.org/web/20171027044455/http://www.haroldaspden.com:80/
This may be the one you're looking for?
Aether Structure: https://web.archive.org/web/20161230082034/http://haroldaspden.com/the-physics-of-creation/10edpocch7.pdf
https://pl.scribd.com/doc/76567187/1995-Harold-Aspden-Discovery-of-Virtual-Inertia
Perhaps this will do.
What I have seen over the years and experiments is this in a nutshell:
The connecting field of two cabinet magnets has a flux strength value at a given distance. This can be duplicated using two coils. The power needs to be defined to match the gauss value of the magnets. The disrupting opposing gauss value then needs to be matched against the original field strength of the primary magnetic source be it magnets or coils. The secret is in looking at power line harmonics and transmission line reflections. The operator merely needs to pick a harmonic position, kick it lightly and in phase. You wanted to know the TPU secret?
This will cause a pumping operation that will build up in time. Remember SM stated 'too much in phase causes explosions' and 'watch out or you will draw lightning out of the sky'. Think discharge.
Now lets simply change the view point. When SM mentions something in a direction then simply reverse the logic or operation. He was willing to tell us everything but couldn't so he changed the labels and directions. Pretty simple.
Lightning from the sky = discharge from the TPU. Tesla coil, charge pumping.
Rotating magnetic field = the direction of the flux lines and not the moving of them around something. The reflections do that.
Two frequencies in = the resonant base frequency and the kick frequency.
The multiple, multiple, multiple windings around each other = The overlaping flux fields(think magnetic current/ Leedskalnin) that are the base frequency resonant field, the harmonic itself and the kicker or in phase pulse somewhere in the harmonic overtone. We now have three frequencies.
Forget all the complexities.
Iron wire presents a core with low mass. Why? It is a collector that absorbs all magnetic energy around it from any angle. The wire aspect then turns the magnetic energy into current. The 90 degree coupling law does not apply here. We have an antenna, a core and conductor all in one. Another gold nugget.
Its all about producing destructive power line harmonics from transmission line reflections.
We can have 3 mediums to work with, the weak field from two cabinet magnets, two coils or three like Spherics showed or Otto's ECD, and transmission line reflections.
Transmission line reflections are the same as magnetic fields reconstructing after being broken. Bing, bing, bing. Big clue here!
For the new people, I have gone over this many times over the years. Now every test I do incorporates this. Otherwise you wont see any power. The real simplicity of failure is that our electronics knowledge always implies a ground. The inclusion of this one connection stops all TPU design progress. No grounding and no harmonic dampening equals destructive reflections. SM stated 'You connect ground you lose the operation'. Major insight here. The current design model is to reduce harmonics. This is incorrect. Choose your tank circuits and filters in the range of the harmonics you want to keep and you will destroy components, equipment and body parts without safety precautions. This will happen on your path to thumping. Think transformer vibration.
Go forth and blow shit up.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2018.06.12, 19:00:03
What I have seen over the years and experiments is this in a nutshell:
Bump
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.05.31, 18:03:43
Bump
Well, do you have an opinion about Giantkiller's post ?
@ Verpies and all that have been trying to work out how this was done.
Well it does not come from power lines or Tesla coils.
Attached is the start and run schematic with two drawings showing power ground and the a b c coils relation.
It is just the way they are all connected. Ever turned a relay into a buzzer or better still three relays, or then again use thermonic valves or MOSFETS. Ah the magnets, not the way to go, magnets loose their power over time if used as a counter field, as SM found.
It is not rocket science, it is simpler than you think.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.01, 17:36:50
Attached is the start and run schematic with two drawings ...
This attachment depicts a device with 6 separate windings, not counting the CMC.
a1, a2, b1, b2, c1, c2.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.01, 23:32:33
This attachment depicts a device with 6 separate windings, not counting the CMC.
a1, a2, b1, b2, c1, c2.
Correct, all the 1s in one open toroid and the 2s in the other, but connected together as though a's are one coil for example.
i see we will need to figure out the circuit and any doda's. what still bites me is the so called flux capacitor that is suppose to put out dc. the 2 terminals of the capacitor, each connected to one of the shorted bifilar windings, capacitor, bifi windings or what, i cannot conceive how a dc output could happen at those terminals. if it is so, then electrons must be transfered from one bifi winding to the other within the winding. through the wire insulation. there just cannot be an endless amout of electrons coming out of one terminals shorted winding, through a load and absorbed by the other shorted winding. that part of this to me seems to be something i want to understand.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.03, 06:08:14
i see we will need to figure out the circuit and any doda's. what still bites me is the so called flux capacitor that is suppose to put out dc. the 2 terminals of the capacitor, each connected to one of the shorted bifilar windings, capacitor, bifi windings or what, i cannot conceive how a dc output could happen at those terminals. if it is so, then electrons must be transfered from one bifi winding to the other within the winding. through the wire insulation. there just cannot be an endless amout of electrons coming out of one terminals shorted winding, through a load and absorbed by the other shorted winding. that part of this to me seems to be something i want to understand.
mags
Mags, over the core is wound the 3 other coils as a trifiler. That means they are a part of the overall capacitance, core "2" wires "plates" with direct capacitance to the 3 over wound coils without any added dielectric interference (all =capacitance).
The 2 core plates are constantly changing polarity and hence charge. The over wound coils a and c are constantly changing feed direction, the b coils pick up an oscillating current AC, this is the feed back.
All coils are wound in the same direction, but due to how they are connected, an a and c coil is bucking when the core discharges a back current.
What you have is a LC in parallel using 2 coils which are bucking ( core and an a and c coil). This will not resonate but is controlled by 2 of the mosfets which have an exact switching sequence.
A 3rd mosfet switches within this sequence which has a different switching "result".
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.03, 06:08:14
if it is so, then electrons must be transferred from one bifi winding to the other within the winding. through the wire insulation.
Furthermore, if it is so, then the type of wire insulation and their spacing matters.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.03, 10:47:16
Furthermore, if it is so, then the type of wire insulation and their spacing matters.
The type of wire is important, first for resistance and second for heat resistance.
As you know if you take a copper wire which has many strands which are tinned individually, the resistance is lower than if not tinned. Copper conducts better than tin, so in a length of this wire the conduction is in the copper, and each strand is in parallel with the next, parallel resistances, therefore the overall resistance is very low.
The insulation should withstand the heating up of the wire in the core, why! because these are shorted coils inside an alternating over wound solenoid current, like an induction heater, high currents will circulate within the shorted coils, they are a loop.
A commercial unit has to be temperature controlled.
The core capacitance is only around 600-800pF, not very much and depends on the size of the coils.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.03, 17:11:47
The type of wire is important, first for resistance and second for heat resistance.
As you know if you take a copper wire which has many strands which are tined individually, the resistance is lower than if not tinned. Copper conducts better than tin, so in a length of this wire the conduction is in the copper, and each strand is in parallel with the next, parallel resistances, therefore the overall resistance is very low.
The insulation should withstand the heating up of the wire in the core, why! because these are shorted coils inside an alternating over wound solenoid current, like an induction heater, high currents will circulate within the shorted coils, they are a loop.
Michael, will there be any commercial units be available in the future?
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.03, 17:11:47
The type of wire is important, first for resistance and second for heat resistance.
A wire (with its insulation) has many more properties than merely DC electric resistance and heat resistance. e.g. the thickness and permittivity of the insulation influences inter-turn and inter-layer capacitance greatly ...and there are many more properties at play.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.03, 17:11:47
The core capacitance is only around 600-800pF, not very much and depends on the size of the coils.
That is actually a large capacitance. It is nothing to sneeze at - it heavily influences the "transmission line"-like properties of the windings ...and signal propagation speed in these "transmission line"-like structures.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.03, 17:11:47
As you know if you take a copper wire which has many strands which are tinned individually, the resistance is lower than if not tinned.
I think you meant that the conductivity is lower than if not tinned.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.03, 17:11:47
Copper conducts better than tin, ...
Yes, thus the more copper the higher the conductivity which is inversely proportional to resistance.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.03, 17:11:47
...and each strand is in parallel with the next, parallel resistances, therefore the overall resistance is very low.
It is true that two strands in parallel have lower DC resistance than one such strand but it is
false that a stranded wire has lower DC resistance than a solid wire of the same diameter.
This is so because of the air between the strands (blue) that takes up the copper's collective cross-sectional area and increases the wire's resistance. Air has a very high resistance.
If tin takes up the copper's collective cross-sectional area, then this also increases the wire's resistance, ...albeit not as much as air.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56318)
At high frequencies, eddy currents and the skin effect rear their ugly heads in bulk solid conductors and this can be mitigated by using a stranded wire in which the individual strands are isolated from each other. Tin is not much of an insulator but it has a higher contact resistance than bare copper. Oxidized tin exhibits even higher contact resistance than clean metallic tin. Oxidized tin (SnO
2) is a wide-bandgap N-type semiconductor (~3.6eV) and its junctions with other materials can form complex effects.
The proximity effect is an issue at high frequencies, too.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.03, 23:09:30
A wire (with its insulation) has many more properties than merely DC electric resistance and heat resistance. e.g. the thickness and permittivity of the insulation influences inter-turn and inter-layer capacitance greatly ...and there are many more properties at play.
That is actually a large capacitance. It is nothing to sneeze at - it heavily influences the "transmission line"-like properties of the windings ...and signal propagation speed in these "transmission line"-like structures.
I think you meant that the conductivity is lower than if not tinned.
Yes, thus the more copper the higher the conductivity which is inversely proportional to resistance.
It is true that two strands in parallel have lower DC resistance than one strand but it is false that a stranded wire has lower DC resistance than a solid wire of the same diameter.
This is so because of the air between the strands (blue) that takes up the copper's collective cross-sectional area and increases the wire's resistance. Air has a very high resistance.
If tin takes up the copper's collective cross-sectional area, then this also increases the wire's resistance, ...albeit not as much as air.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56318)
At high frequencies, eddy currents and the skin effect rear their ugly heads in bulk solid conductors and this can be mitigated by using a stranded wire in which the individual strands are isolated from each other. Tin is not much of an insulator but it has a higher contact resistance than bare copper. Oxidized tin exhibits even higher contact resistance than clean metallic tin. Oxidized tin (SnO2) is a wide-bandgap N-type semiconductor (~3.6eV) and its junctions with other materials can form complex effects.
The proximity effect is an issue at high frequencies, too.
Yes I agree with all you have said.
Have you realized that even though that capacitance is across the a2c2 series connection it will not resonate, it can easily be missed that the way those two coils are connected, they buck.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.04, 07:04:07
Have you realized that even though that capacitance is across the a2c2 series connection it will not resonate, ...
No, I have not.
First of all, I do not recognize the a2c2 designations because I am using revised ones that are different.
Secondly, even if a capacitance does not participate in the lumped LC resonance it can still influence the speed of pulse propagation through the windings that surround it. Parallel conductors with a capacitance between them always form a transmission line. Unterminated transmission lines always create reflections and reflections create standing waves with CW excitation. All of this happens even in the absence of lumped LC resonance.
For example, a bifilar winding wound and connected as follows:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56328)
...will not generate any flux in the core, but it still acts as a coiled transmission line which is heavily influenced by the inter-turn capacitance.
This transmission line will generate inverted reflections from its shorted end and these reflections will take a finite time to propagate back to the source.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3924.0;attach=36343)
Mechanical analogy of an EM wave
reflecting from the end of a shorted transmission line.@ Master Lurker
I think you have a video of a pulse reflecting from the end of a coiled transmission line like that.
If you can find it, please show it to Centraflow.
This a link to one video but not the one of the still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4y8zBGH0zY
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.04, 19:24:38
This a link to one video but not the one of the still.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4y8zBGH0zY
That's 5.3MHz + higher harmonics ! Non-Litz copper wire will suffer from a terrible skin effect (28µm) at 5.3MHz ...and shallower for the harmonics.
Too bad the scope is desynchronized. If you do not know how to trigger it on some peak in the "Normal" mode, then at least do a "Single"-shot mode.
Also, where were the probes connected when this scopeshot was recorded ?
This is a still from a video.
Who is Master Lurker?
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.04, 20:12:50
This is a still from a video.
looks like carbon nano tube... kinda 3d.
Mags
It is not mine, it was sent to me some years ago now. The presumption is it is of the flux fields using simple coil sniffer coils connected to an oscillascope.
I have the video, and presume it was sent by SM to me, it is quite old, circa 1990s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1C1c-j9zM
In answer to Verpies that I do not know how to sync: a scope (some posts back), I looked through my records to find this.
Quite often I use an external trigger, this one does not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epm4pAkBYa0
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.05, 09:31:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epm4pAkBYa0
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56338)
Yellow trace: A wave, blue/green: C wave, white/purple: A+C.Yellow is frequency and phase locked to white at 2.5kHz and yellow is the signal of the highest amplitude.
Blue (5.26kHz) is not frequency locked to yellow and exhibits phase jitter relative to it.
These frequencies are 3 orders of magnitude lower than the waveforms depicted in the previous video (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119371#msg119371).
Other members reading this will not know what "A wave" and "C wave" refer to, what circuit, what diagram, what winding, measured relative to what...
Let me talk about frequencies.
SM talked about:- Take the frequency of interest and for one frequency you multiply by 2.1+- and the other by 3.2+- Note more or less, so not exactly, So what is the frequency of interest!!
There was talk of units running at 5kHz.
The toroids used 3 mosfet switches to switch coils in a sequence. Sequencers are common place in audio processing, and use clocks for doing this.
Three switches A B C in a sequence which repeats all the time, but SM said A and C must never be ON at the same time!! So ABCBABCBABCB etc and I realised B and AC have isolated grounds. Isolated grounds led to two current supplies.
There had to be some form of taking return current to feed back into the system, DC or AC!! the surprise for SM was the output was DC, so I opted for AC across the "b" coils.
SM insinuated that it was interreacting with the Earths magnetic field and or frequency (7.83Hz).
7.8125kHz is used within Analog to digital converting, SM was an audio engineer.
Years back now I went down the path of 7.8125kHz, so what did I find.
hey mike
a lot of what you posted recently seems very intuitive to what SM had to say about things.
i have interest. but i dont have time to figure out what to do with it all beyond what is given.
so you said that some or a unit was said to run at 5khz. was just thinking, if so, then that unit probably didnt have issues with orientation with the earth field? and if so, would that eliminate the ideas that the unit is drawing energy from the earth fields, and the gain is within the units functions on its own? and if so, it would seem to be 'best' to not run it at 7.8?
mags
What I found was 7.8125 and 7.83 are so close together that the smallest change makes a big difference when dealing with two frequencies that reference to one another.
What was said was 2.1 and 3.2 + -
7.83 X 2.1284802043 = 16.6659999997 (2.1+-)
7.83 X 3.1928480204342 = 25.000 (3.2+-)
So the frequency of interest was "probably" 7.8125kHz but ended up 7.83kHz a multiple of 1000 X 7.83Hz.
I really do not think this was by design, but I can not prove otherwise, the only person that could do that is SM.
So all that said, if anyone wants to see what happens between these two frequencies from a "base" of 7.83kHz. Attached is the driver circuit for STEAP.
Just scope "3 channels" at the input to the driver chips.
The clock is 100kHz but you input the 16.666*kHz to the pin 13 and not ground that pin.
This simulates what happens within the real circuit because the returning input normally is an alternating current, and the mosfets switch totally independantly to what happens within the circuit (they are floating with respect to circuit ground).
https://youtu.be/lDQ4ISP_5Jg
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.21, 19:04:20
hey mike
a lot of what you posted recently seems very intuitive to what SM had to say about things.
i have interest. but i dont have time to figure out what to do with it all beyond what is given.
so you said that some or a unit was said to run at 5khz. was just thinking, if so, then that unit probably didnt have issues with orientation with the earth field? and if so, would that eliminate the ideas that the unit is drawing energy from the earth fields, and the gain is within the units functions on its own? and if so, it would seem to be 'best' to not run it at 7.8?
mags
There in lays a problem i had for a long time.
Clock divided into a sequence of 4 (ABCB) "A and C most never be ON together ;)
Three switches, 25000/3 = 8.333*
8.333 X 2 = 16.666*
MIX 25kHz with 16.666*kHz
= 41.666* and 8.333*kHz
41.666/8.333 = 4.999880001* O0
It runs at 5kHz
Mags.
Afaik it has everything to do with the Earths field, both magnetic and electric, why!! Well if it did not they the conservation of energy has just been thrown out of the window.
The top and bottom toroids are really just one bigger toroid when you seen how they are connected, but still with a gap.
The problem of just one toroid is the gap which just has two alternating magnetic ends within the gap as opposed to 4.
The gap is a pickup, as in a record player pickup with stylus. Here the stylus is the Earths field and moves insequence with the changing poles within the gap. Thus is then amplified by the circuit.
The circuit not only amplifies voltage but also current due to magnetic reflection,
When 100kHz and 32.768kHz square waveforms are applied to the inputs of Centraflow's 4017 sequencing circuit then the following depicts how the width of half of the output pulses grows as these two unsynchronized signals beat against each other with creeping phases. (later on, the pulses shrink).
Nothing except the AND or NOR gate's performance limits how narrow these green pulses can get.
Note that the green pulses mostly come in pairs ( actually in groups of 2 and rarely 3 pulses ):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54365)
With square CP0=100kHz and CP1=32.768kHz, the probabilities of occurrences are as follows:
94.82% : 1 complete 5µs pulse and 1 partial pulse (or vice versa),
2.59% : 2 complete 5µs pulses,
2.59% : 3 pulses (partial+complete+partial), ...occurring 848 times per second.
This happens because 100kHz / 32.768kHz ≈ 3.05 which means that a little more than 3 cycles of the 100kHz signal fit in 1 cycle of the 32.768kHz signal ...but since it is a square wave then only half of that cycle is spent at the high level, thus only a little more than 1.5 cycles of the 100kHz signal fit inside the high level period of the 32.768kHz signal where the AND or NOR gate lets them pass though.
Thus you always see 1 complete cycle of the 100kHz signal in the group (which contains 1 complete 5µs high pulse of that cycle) and a fraction of one or two other cycles which can contain a second complete 5µs high pulse (rare) or fractional pulse/s. It is also possible that the 15.26µs pulse symmetrically straddles 1.5 cycles of the 100kHz square waveform which results in 3 pulses per group (1 fractional pulse + 1 complete 5µs pulse + 1 fractional pulse), this case is illustrated below:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54383) A rare situation with 3 pulses per group ( probability: 2.59% ).
This rare situation does not happen for square CP1 waveforms having frequencies 3x the CP0 frequency (or higher, e.g.: CP0=100kHz and CP1=34kHz ), or when the length of the CP1's active state is equal or less than 3x the length of CP0's active state. The lack of these triple pulses prevents periodic mode switching of the A,B,C,B sequencing circuit, e.g.: based on the 74HC175 / 40175 (https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?ctz=CQAgjCAMB0l3BWEBmAHAJmgdgGzoRmACzICcpkORI6ESCkICApgLRhgBQYCSrWkdNXRZkOEKxypS4kWPCME3XhKmpGc8ZJxZ0NUeLCNIyvjh17NqhEWEGFUU9fSp98ySUv2jjgO6qiMFkEXACgt3ETf0kEFwjnVxF0Y05ogSF9KQkBBFlcVyjsyFzM135i2VQiAtSikpdq1VIwSyqa6JxmryzJLpo2vyaW-sbJAWEBwrHIOx6dGZH2ooyXOGWJmUHylektNQ1dxwAlbNXS7ORQkSyNBQ1oJEwkYwfuPCHLIioPmiI1vQAJswAGYAQwArgAbAAurEhzAB4CgyJgkC4HT6Qm+vWG6Dw1BMAHMfkI1jjLGICo5iWN5KTGLTZJSUbVGb9sTo6ThIDUgno2VjqAK-rcgWCobD4YiIBAXmi3vycLkNF8hUrub9-iAxRCYXCEcjZVBYOjrBrBWaNPjqZbNQz1RpmSkMbj8qpUOpzlN5rMyuZdF7WQ7zjE4tclqHEup7bEo5tvRZ+mT-a140GPQdkxn+mmOtmXJttAGC5Eg4mSwkc6WAB5NHAQIQICC9c1EGwgaiNACCnFrkmjvybqiw5EHnY7rgAQr3VPWG23m+YfI3x40AMIzmLEGikaTWMDIHekPTCahHACiAGVzwAVIOeeIecJWIlhWQye2Bd-HlkAJzf-TIIqX5Voa8AmCcT6VEBAEuOExgdooKLGkoADGsGHFBO4atQYCwOBBEEWAbBYB20DkBRlEUQgh6omijgAM6VugH6waxjAQNCv7gswnD-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) chip, or on the 74HC174 / 40174 (https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?ctz=CQAgjCAMB0l3BWEBmAHAJmgdgGzoRmACzICcpkORI6ESCkICApgLRhgBQYCSr+ucKizoQ-IkVRCR4RpG68x6EqLDDR-dMumq5CvlqKM1M-h1XrZTfUsikcO23Edg9AdzFhSqamBz3Pb19LeQ9+OwcTDXQIoQQHUKUEQS9Ian4cSClU6kSMrPAKdPRM7KCoTjCSgq8fJSIqQrq85Uac+rbylobfcs0ZWtzKpXQBopGx5uH+ZMjSZAcZwRjkURbZmkhV+u2Vtc4AJSURY3nF9FRnLwWoGllGTCRH25gEbjwO30zGcTaEG9EABNmAAzACGAFcADYAF1YUOYgPALygsC4VR64G+n3AuD0AHMcTwbr9fAxchVCfxkGlwP9zjSybT3EpGVjnNTaWAsBIKn5omy-Bz0IL6XdgeDoXCEUiIBA5Gj3tEwBd2T9aKriQ4gaDIbD4YjbvLUZB0UoVdlsWZNXjKebNWLrdlyS9pq1erTxNt2i1RqpxpojIVmW6LcHirEfW7I2dbAE9hUqspTiTDA8tvsMd7Y17RAnursMyMg-m3cnNttwvGi-IAB5JMDIOnCBuqBAUEDUSQgACCnHr1IQbZbg7l7cYXakACF++asKRm1g586O5OQABhWfhDA0FUGLIQDVSajaA4AUQAymeACrRq6WdjlKJ2x91GIBV8nsN6ABOgTqXg4FIn4Vms9xwIc-69EBUGFDccidowSAIa8nAAMawQmIHvg4viwPABGEXAYBsEuRDQOQlFUZR-wmqaFQAM5xtqsTYbExggDCP4QswnB-lWLGVoMoFGhBVQnEIqDAX6xghJB-ASc+-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) chip, or on the 4017 (https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?ctz=CQAgjCAMB0l3BWEBmAHAJmgdgGzoRmACzICcpkORICkNNdCApgLRhgBQR66IbRkVOHRw+xQcKpRpmJAi48xOZLzAi6bZavRS6dWTQW82CEcNEmza3TOhyjY9KRzmNa55Op6QB+d2PsqNRqFoHBOl629v5ikFjaoXHaNvp2hjEsznQhGlme0qnRiixBQjl8pfnevg4sWMgu5XUNVVHpxXjhFp2the3GCERdGoPhKT5p8gDuYrTBIbOQwYJCkBwAHkpEZchgpFtY4Cq81OjUAIprALJKKvmad2qo1XYcN5bZEbNW6M9Rb2IBGUvvwJE8XvJ3u5GiDocI-oUAWwwEF7mF4RCkWAkmiceD-u88tZqJkcJ8ERNIRVtvdKvjEe96jCpM0YRTZEiesS+Fzfpj3qN7oL6ZSNrNkIcwLshCYWlL0BBThdOJs2LtgtKxLtkEcFSAlSBzsgxfwzkcwIdTTr5XQDed0CbSFgdha+E7JSpbT4LjgTagcC6Zf6PXq7VgTdjSBApSjYhRdYrvYb5KqQqpdvs2CJo8d9UnzkQTVhBuaZcXrSpE2bzqgTVQK66WFR02Y7aQTQgpPKICxOxWzS5qwhMhwZiYluAVlqyZPUKtR7E57OZdil+wzGsx9jO+AFmxIDvV-OtwfGlOm2Cp5ueZelxeygtr-fl3xhVeF72hi-P8MoB-ytuLiaDSgF-luVBlKeWwPhu-7qLuZhZqIoFPuwAYIW4YDoSh-5YZBO51KiOFjsWqhQXUpgYWBShYVRmi0diZqoTgDGQGaaq-JOTEfk6jR7rxXFeDxX7rrkX7kLwT6kOJpABHhIASdRprzIhxBmopqEIHKe5gFpLh5JpLR5MiRkzk+-oqRoFkKWZ-5kKoOn2QpnGoU5skytJ1DuUp8TZHuvnOceFSPHuqB3KgHjmeFHiZLgIARS4qF8nR+IJUpMYOapuy8NZrlqPFLKkQVQljlQfmIWVxXpRBk4EVhNKoLRT4IHFjVAfVQhtX+ulIFmUiVciqKVbw0xiPJWATsi6EabhLQDewpl6LhE44PEY0Ts6JXrdQq0BDiu3pV8E0ktyRVJVIRX7mtZ3-jil1znQN0ntdk3YtdlFSflB0lH8B2fbwx1ul9a3-SAgOZPlm1KZ5IADTD3lSXF4MCWlaw9bEa1w7JsMCD46VEDul2nR9-4Ey44PEITJNbk4Ljfdyf1wR49O02DqKuZx80qJB3Fbg0j2vfzL5owgvWU3TuNqnFw2GOjP10ANzwK7jkkflD4NQ8RfBFQNRW5WrZga4b7MGwLJIBYzJFmN9AZCJbFR-ODD1g9TDuPZRTZLk9PJe5Ntsu6rY6CuDb5LiLvX+wNZJ2yr6VC1znO4xzMduF8lWofJ81ShLS1jgJcNfunH7OwXO1J2rlG60N5ckZXkuRzXjj9ZL3KChn6Gdph6FF89vDzTibfCWXYnUNsudul+Y9N6PCJwVIU99dQCD5WsGRYR4RNkwHBSUoYW5bwg2M-jQ2Mi13QiCldI1fvo9DyLpARfKYK7yc-Mh36TO7zQfp8fsHk2CkPoHV82MQ5fkBs1aWksWouC6s1bGA0YE4yWrpNwLE6ZrQ+LDEGeNGC1HXnTO8WFaL+whIYAAkkoZmLd0HIIKJMf8tCcB1SYeXXSOoHiZTQY8eCt88HsO+OVNwphPiiD4bLLSgIwQ6SBK4d+9gBFZg8KJRwyjeG4IkRw9EKjBq-nEffSRV8Up4nUZJTRboZw6KJKY6QBiOF0lCiBGx-DDFMjom48o+iOCKK5HuXkYiNGjTqMbEkUYAYmy3NiagUMIbhK2ko8mqJkQbQiaoxJJ1thCChqhTJbMMlLntlg+muTCnEAKZg8W2DgEURyiySq+ta5kQIprKCUlxKcWCXQBGPFWoxVSpFWa+kZwlCkAZXC00j5qS8r-PmnFGKhLivMuOljzxHmFhwAASlQwhK4sDSzDnjbEjB6B6FeJEoisJ0A8N0HBa5J0rnpl-qmAMOoYl4XCYcA0VwNkRniDqPAmYLSKC0LDJMABhAACiqMQ8QIBYD2DCw2igDSQuYhvD2BCjgzO2Vix+jwnJrFTLQJAOBlCLB2qSvMZpIW-KuTQOKbB4gjSwPscIJxIAWm8Ri+IwI-hsAwOEdktj-wiLRDyqoTNmQnWQCJL4rlZUsilCJCUiU7LKoZUCnYcVULirhIyuZKq-xQgFRiMQQRySYlTKgFlwhJnWuBKQJA1AWgACFNk4vmnsnO78VDYA7icqArxnkEyOAQLYGoWJ5haAAQQjNwDUdVuAVkPlGlwYKOAAHtwBEAgDYdYvxsS0SQDACA4ijmxGzRAHU5CAB2AAzAAljWhtAAXAAntIGlWapQ42kPmsKHKXDFtgHAUt4A8bFpANGgAOgAZwABRzsuHOgAlJm8Aq1e10H7YWodgax0QBGtIF1c7F2zvOGAadAAHI0q7126S3SAHdg6TnQAPROztp6l3oDvUAA) chip.
Mode switching is a weird feature of these sequencing circuits where in one mode the pulses at the B output are wider than the pulses at the A & C outputs and a second mode in which the pulses at the B output are narrower than the pulses at the A & C outputs. These modes do not switch as long as the number of CP pulses per group evenly divides the number of states of the sequencing circuit (4), i.e.: 2 CP pulses per group.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54385) Mode Switch. Note the widths of the B pulses wrt A & C pulses before and after the triple CP pulse (circled in red)
These mode switches cause inversions of the duty cycle. This affects the DC-level and low-frequency components of the A,B,C waveforms.
Below is a long-term plot of the B signal averaged by a simple RC integrator (https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?ctz=CQAgjCAMB0l3BWEBmAHAJmgdgGzoRmACzICcpkORI6ESCkICApgLRhgBQYCSruRVCjA4h-BOkbIRQsI0jdeIcZGrTRyrOlI5hGuU1jxjJyFx58tOvWKwyb4eYss90D-pAS71sxgk4A7pqqUnC2IQ4KQfyu7nYSwglRmlRCyJKM-KJSGVCBKag5cAU5hXnRuGXpZeLI3uhlybX1xc0oDU4VCHXtNVjVvZ2aA+mt-Q2D5SmC7enTaQNNAgsTKmqLnABKmhRquayFxaPyNI6MmEgXUFDQ-iJubQ3Wj6hzbgAmzABmAIYArgAbAAurABzHe4Gu8lgXC6PSeujayE8ugUAHNNN1dA05i9ik4Mfw6udXg9+jgSfipkSKTRUM9yaEiE57sNaQi2SS3iBPr9ASCwRCIBBoWZuHhNGBUNQOTFpXTubz-sDQeDriKbmKKlKZfTEXZ5civHlCQbdbizXSqUsse0xgw9vj8kSJsdNNoWkM5Y7MvE3G6lrF0hagxsKh7ZmSI8gw5jVJG4+sJjb4zHVlZvLH+NGBjEEmmhAoAB6Y1CXVCvUu61C6agzACCnBL-CI6GryE0rY7DRrIDrQgAQk33chy5Xs8hq7W+0IAMLDmJoFCtiCLrDLtt9mjUTYAUQAyruACrOrAouIRHwm4LMlBkMmX1vUJwAJxvOSo77vybOcC2X-ST8PFvdIZhOW8kBOGB-AAYwA3MzxA+8tzAIxTHQsA2HXIhoHIPD8Lw7pNTMPIAGdJXzZDgKkZDGAgIEXz+ZhODfPN-QQy9FjOU8sFIf0dU0Xj+J6BRtn4IThB6A54Ek1FTnSbANCuK5oX8ZteIQNQwHQdd+FIIjpGRLcelnAAFLh1P0pBpFIVcNK00g6xQXQzOLFJSHXaR6Xc7wwD4rdNzMhdcCXGMwF0kLPNGEBvF0ABZTZT2ZNJ7BpKR7AUHgO3E-y3SyKpcnOJgmFPUN01DfylhwOZkVvNYUAiG0eiNfVbSvJZiQaurGUiU9eH4jQkQy08RjCACxqqz9kUgWxRpm6ktCOVLLXavrUwierVu1Q19hWjo8iy+YGuNLIZna04-BG119u9SZA0Nc9bukSQFujDaetqr0-USMkg3PDrXWWubC1PHAprGrJweNTKiOzawWvdI5-oukrw3hyAtHdeHtK+6McclQ18furSXqe4bwyRk7voRgGUsGjNeoqZDgzJZnGrWtR3rZ283P4GtSDpEhNBrIQGiIacZiwIgAAlZ3CtThaUJ5qD5zS6Q8rcZgAexfAAdUjmXl0Gave6r-X+pL5pZ4ZcvQOYYey3jU1ofUJPSERrjcS7TV2BM9Odxo8lYnrZS0MoOTokxODg7Nw71d1w8cpyYBMNxUJ05AsC0aqSH6VA7FRIwRU4U19u0IgVbD84dCgzgtZimLnxAIsGjkD3IOgDU08cZQ5HXbwbg1IL66Iz9GCIOQ0+hLumA7DtGxH6gx77See5gGe1Y7Id6-QNxl4nyAp8Hz2aH9EB53rytJ6bg+3A74VTkrDtNlnfWAEkADsgWYNEXx+IEdb6y1h-fWQ4gA) that illustrates this phenomenon. Note that sometimes 2 phase wraparounds between the CP0 and CP1 signals occur before a mode switch. All in all, this creates a low frequency analog signal.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54579)Low frequency components of the B signal caused by the inversions of the duty cycle and phase wraparounds (cycles at 424Hz)
Finally, during the low level part of the 32.768kHz square waveform (also 15.26µs long), the AND or NOR gate always blocks the transmission of the 100kHz waveform so we see a gap in the CP signal without any edges, which causes the sequencing circuit to pause and elongate its current output pulse.
P.S.
If my pet hypothesis is correct, then the second pulse in each group should always be longer than the first pulse.
This circuit generates such pulse sequences ...but not all the time (less than half of the time, in fact). This happens because the two frequencies beat against each other with creeping phases. On the encouraging side, this sequencing circuit generates many pulse width ratios randomly. Maybe some of these ratios are magic... In spin echo experiments some pulse width ratios and spacings definitely are special.
This analysis above is of a simulation when two input frequencies 100kHz clock and 32.768kHz are mixed.
In the working unit the mosfets are pulsed in the ABCB sequence with only one frequency, 100kHz clock divided by 4, the 4017 pin 13 is grounded, so the output pulses are 25kHz. The gates see just a simple low duty "12.5%" of un-interrupted sequential pulses.
As shown in the simulation, the 4017 sequencer normally divides by 10 but Q4 resets it after 4 cycles and there are only 3 outputs for mosfet switches. The difference is the DUTY but it is still 100 divided by 4, so 25kHz and not 12.5kHz.
In the real circuit the interruption is caused by the circuit interaction were the circuit "negative" is an alternating current. In other words a mosfet may be switched ON (because the gates are floating) but the circuit ground has turned positive at the mosfet source RESISTOR.
This is an audio engineering trick, the mosfet's source is not grounded. This is why the gate drivers are battery powered where A & C have one battery and B another battery. The ground negative is the other side of the 10 ohm resistors.
There are times when a mosfet is ON and the "drain" is a positive current being pulled down towards circuit ground and a positive adds to a negative of the returning circuit power current. This is where the circuit is KICKED, if you do not have it it will not work as a so called OU generator.
But that can't be because of COE, hmmmmm, so where does the energy come from, and I can tell you now, IT IS REAL.
All it needs now is the main circuit.
It is all to do with the way the coils are wired.
Seems quite complex. Do you think SM came up with this himself or someone else? In all that bibbity, bobity boo, if SM ran across something himself, what might he have seen in a simpler form that got him started on this? Must have been something simpler that got the juices flowing. Can't be all that and bam, because why do all that for any other reason?
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.23, 04:46:51
Seems quite complex.
Centaflow's sequencing circuit behaves complexly when supplied with certain two input frequencies, but it behaves very simply when supplied with only one input frequency.
These two operating regimes are
very different.
The behavior of source followers is yet a different issue.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.24, 04:11:09
Centaflow's sequencing circuit behaves complexly when supplied with certain two input frequencies, but it behaves very simply when supplied with only one input frequency.
These two operating regimes are very different.
The behavior of source followers is yet a different issue.
Maybe it is simple once it is put together and get it working. I have a hankering for knowing what seeded the idea. So what i was implying was that if SM did discover something, that ended up being what we hope for, then i doubt that seed wasn't anything 'as' complex as what has been seen as a working model. If mike is correct about all the different windings and then the circuit to drive it correctly, the i doubt he went that far or close to it before he understood what he experienced in order to develop it further.
A lot said about SM and audio. Other than a crossover inductor, there is not much in audio that uses air core windings. Most everything from a simple input power supply to newer more eff switching supplies, the inductors used as filters for the latter, then in the amplifier section, any windings there, and even speaker drivers themselves, all of them contain cores. Here we have no magnetic cores possibly. Mostly as far as i know, the only thing in audio that contains 2 separate windings( not necessarily bifilar wound but typically layered) is a dual voice coil speaker/subwoofer....
Used to have hours long talks with Erfinder. talked a lot about car audio. One conversation on the subject, he seemed to develop an an idea in that moment that 'what if that dual voice coil were wound bifilar instead of layered'. Gave impressions of increased output, but didn't lead me to the way, what, how or why on that. He was always like that but had great conversations. Haven't spoken in a while but consider him a friend.
If Mike's depiction of 2 windings, bifilar, are an actual part of the TPU, what made him come up with that very unusual configuration? I am still focused on the function of that particular component. Look at it this way ...will the TPU work without that component? If not then why and what is its function? Never seen anything like it and it definitely could be the source of overheating. So it has some character that fits.
I Heard different stories that SM was working on some quadraphonics and maybe directional sound capabilities... Speakers have some odd qualities like if the length of the sound wave of the input is shorter than the diameter of the cone of the driver, the sound will tend to beam and be more directional on axis with the speakers motion... like if you buy a set of component speakers, a set of 6.5in will typically have a passive crossover between the mid driver and the tweeter of 3 to 3.5khz but a set of 5.25 mids and tweets will be crossed over at 2 to 2.5khz. This is to avoid that beaming effect.
If SM was playing with such ideas, what might he had seen in some of that, that led him to the TPU? Had a speaker laying around with its dual voice coils shorted and it started smoking when its cone was beamed by other drivers? I dunno, just stuff that runs through my thoughts.
In the end, if Mike's depictions are possibly real deal TPU ingredients, then I'm not seeing a reason for SM to come close to that accidentally for other purposes. Seems to me there is a simpler idea in it all that got him started, and id love to see 'that'. The one thing that makes it happen.
If it was found say to be an odd anomaly in the realm of sound energy, that may have enticed him to replicate the effect in electronic form. 😉
Those shorted bifilar windings. Very strange indeed.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.24, 05:58:25
Those shorted bifilar windings. Very strange indeed.
The Dally device used such winding connected as in Diag.2:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54933)
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.24, 14:29:17
The Dally device used such winding connected as in Diag.2:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54933)
Diag 3. ya know, I've seen that pic of the different configurations it seems like many times, but never had i noticed the shorted windings of Diag 3.
Shorted just like mike had shown. ???
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.24, 17:58:29
Diag 3. ya know, ive seen that pic of the different configurations it seems like many times, ...
Yeah, I post this pic every time someone uses the word "bifilar" without narrowing down the meaning of that word further.
The devil is in the details.
Diag.3 is essentially a capacitor.
Yeah, Diag.3 is just a capacitor. What is the description of Diag.2? What would be its use?
So here, Diag.3 is just a capacitor with connections tied to each end of the plates/windings, but in Mike's case, it is also being magnetically induced. What use would there be in doing that? Like if it were used just as a capacitor, then why install it as a core with the other windings, rather than having that 'capacitor' off to the side in circuit? What effect is happening using it as a 'core'?
Might sound like im jabbering over nothing. No, there has to be a reason for it to be in that configuration.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.24, 21:23:55
Yeah, it is just a capacitor.
What is the description of Diag.2? What would be its use?
Diag.2 acts as a shorted transmission line that reflects inverted pulses back to their source. In theory this should not generate any H field in the core because the currents flowing through that winding are symmetric and oriented in opposite directions.
Ask Smudge if such arrangement can influence the A field as in the Aharonov-Bohm effect.
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.24, 21:23:55
...but in Mike's case, it is also being magnetically induced. What use would there be in doing that?
Perhaps to charge this capacitor using the Lorentz force of a moving unipolar magnetic field that accelerates opposite electric charges in opposite directions.
Such moving magnetic field can be created by other means than mechanically moving magnets.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55323)
Separation and acceleration of unlike
charges by a moving magnetic field.
TPU heresy:
The bottom ring is magnetized, top ring is "rotated" capacitor but statically. Underlaying principle: Faraday's paradox
Quote from: andyw33 on 2026.06.24, 21:30:11
The bottom ring is magnetized,...
What is the direction of this magnetization ?
Quote from: andyw33 on 2026.06.24, 21:30:11
...top ring is "rotated" capacitor but statically.
Draw a diagram of a
statically rotated capacitor. Be precise.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.24, 22:38:28
Diag.2 acts as a shorted transmission line that reflects inverted pulses back to their source. In theory this should not generate any H field in the core because the currents flowing through that winding are symmetric and oriented in opposite directions.
Ask Smudge if such arrangement can influence the A field as in the Aharonov-Bohm effect.
Perhaps to charge this capacitor using the Lorentz force of a moving unipolar magnetic field that accelerates opposite electric charges in opposite directions.
Such moving magnetic field can be created by other means than mechanically moving magnets.
So if i were to make such a capacitor as in Diag 3, and put it inside another single winding, and drive the single winding, say pulse, would i be able to read voltages across the fig 3 capacitor being magnetically induced by that outer winding?
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.25, 05:35:54
So if i were to make such a capacitor as in Diag 3, and put it inside another single winding, and drive the single winding, say pulse, would i be able to read voltages across the fig 3 capacitor being magnetically induced by that outer winding?
I already tried putting a bifilar winding from Diag.1 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54933) over a bifilar winding from Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54933) wound over a rubber hose toroidal core and nothing got induced (just like the theory predicts), ...but you are welcome to try it again and your way.
This is not surprising because for the Lorentz force to charge the capacitor, the inducing magnetic field must be virtually moving parallel to the capacitor's wires like the field of that C-magnet (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55323) and a bifilar winding like the one in Diag.1 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54933) just does not generate a magnetic field that moves this way.
Note that the field of the moving C-magnet (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55323) does not flip direction (that's important).
Use Diag 3 , close connections, I know there is patent aboout it
Quote from: forest on 2026.06.25, 13:09:43
Use diag 3 , close connections, I know there is patent aboout it
Are you proposing to add more connections to the winding depicted in Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119534#msg119534) ?
If "yes" then please draw these additional connections.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.25, 07:41:39
This is not surprising because for the Lorentz force to charge the capacitor, the inducing magnetic field must be virtually moving parallel to the capacitor's wires like the field of that C-magnet (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55323) ...
It is impossible to move the field parallel to the wires in Diag 3 because these wires are curved and spiralling.
Quote from: Groundloop on 2026.06.25, 16:10:40
It is impossible to move the field parallel to the wires in Diag 3 because these wires are curved and spiralling.
So the path of motion also needs to be curved.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.25, 16:24:34
So the path of motion also needs to be curved.
If you curve the path then the motion of the field will not be parallel to the wires !
Quote from: Groundloop on 2026.06.25, 16:29:56
If you curve the path then the motion of the field will not be parallel to the wires !
So curves cannot be parallel but lines can ?
What about circular arcs which are also curves ?
What about full arcs which are circles ?
Do you realize that when you zoom in enough then almost every curve becomes a line ?
This is basic geometry and calculus.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.25, 16:40:16
Do you realize that when you zoom in enough then almost every curve becomes a line ?
That's ridiculous. Curve is not a line.
Arcs are not lines, either.
Let's not get distracted with your imaginary geometry. How can you move the magnetic field parallel to the wires in Diag 3 to charge that cap?
Quote from: Groundloop on 2026.06.25, 16:54:42
How can you move the magnetic field parallel to the wires in Diag 3 to charge that cap?
Mechanically this can be accomplished like this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56525)
The bifilar winding around the center post is of the type depicted in Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119534#msg119534)The same virtual movement of the magnetic flux can be achieved without any moving mechanical components and without permanent magnets.
Quote from: Groundloop on 2026.06.25, 16:54:42
That's ridiculous. Curve is not a line. Arcs are not lines, either.
That's why a surface of a calm lake appears flat ...the reason for it is different if Earth is a disk. Which is it ?
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.25, 14:44:50
Are you proposing to add more connections to the winding depicted in Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119534#msg119534) ?
If "yes" then please draw these additional connections.
Oh, sorry, my mistake. I thought about Diag 1 bifilar but closed.
Quote from: forest on 2026.06.25, 17:51:09
Oh, sorry, my mistake. I thought about Diag 1 bifilar but closed.
May I delete your messages about it then ?
Maybe worth a read over Arie Degus paper The MPC is the basis for a number of his devices.
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13989 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13989)
and this one
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13892 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13892)
Quote from: Peterae on 2026.06.26, 13:36:56
Maybe worth a read over Arie Degus paper The MPC is the basis for a number of his devices.
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13989 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13989)
and this one
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13892 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13892)
Thanks for the references. I read them but I am none the wiser.
I am not trying to figure the Modus Operandi of the TPU anyway. I just focus on its construction details (like how many windings, their types, terminals, turns, etc...)
I posted about the way to induce electric charge in the bifilar winding of Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119534#msg119534) only as a reply to Magluvin's question below:
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.24, 21:23:55
So here, Diag.3 is just a capacitor with connections tied to each end of the plates/windings, but in Mike's case, it is also being magnetically induced. What use would there be in doing that?
...I am not even sure that the TPU contains a winding like the one depicted in Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119534#msg119534) ... but Magluvin seems to think so.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.26, 12:43:25
May I delete your messages about it then ?
If you wish so. I don't know why nobody consider bifilar closed on itself as important
Quote from: forest on 2026.06.26, 20:48:41
If you wish so. I don't know why nobody consider bifilar closed on itself as important
I wish it only if your post was made in error, you acknowledge it and consider it without value.
...however since you are expressing a surprise about not getting a technical response to it then apparently you still consider it valuable and want to talk about it ...so I will not delete it unless that changes.
First of all, one of the reasons that you did not get response is most probably the phrase "bifilar closed on itself" which does not have a clear meaning in this language.
Phrases like "closed switch" or "closed circuit" are familiar to English speakers but a phrase like "closed coil" or "coil/winding closed on itself" seem really odd an unfamiliar.
Most people will skip things that they do not understand and move on rather then take the time and effort to clarify the meaning with the author.
Did you mean "shorted bifilar winding" ?
and I'm not sure the shorted bifi is really a part of the actual SM's TPU either, but... since Diag 3 has appeared to my attn, I'm wondering. Centraflow said some of the other windings connect to the leads of that shorted bifi. I just want to know what its function is other than a cap, being it is induced by the other windings.
Sorry if I seem locked on that, but it is strange.
I'm hoping Centraflow is onto something here.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.26, 22:57:32
I just want to know what its function is other than a cap, being it is induced by the other windings.
Could its function be just that - to accept induction from other components ?
Ordinary tapewound caps cannot be induced by magnetic flux moving in the direction depicted in Reply #856 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119552#msg119552).
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.26, 23:19:01
Could its function be just that - to accept induction from other components ?
Ordinary tapewound caps cannot be induced by magnetic flux moving in the direction depicted in Reply #856 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119552#msg119552).
Can we agree that by the looks of it, inducing the 2 shorted bifi windings cannot, or say should not, induce a voltage difference between the capacitor terminals? If we cannot agree, where does the exchange of electrons from one plate (winding) to the other in order to even measure a charge differential between the 2 outer leads of he shorted windings ?
...but like Centralflow said, some of the other windings connect to those. OK, then its just a capacitor. The big question is, how does inducing, magnetically, the 2 shorted windings give affect to the circuit? Does it affect how the capacitor works? Does the capacitance charged affect the induction of those windings in some way? Why is it in the core?
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 00:37:07
Can we agree that by the looks of it, inducing the 2 shorted bifi windings ...
I do not understand these words. Please clarify - which one of the following do you mean by "shorted bifi windings" when you refer to the winding depicted in Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119534#msg119534) ?:
In your pic above, the one on the right is fig 3 is it not? The red winding is shorted end to end and the blue winding is also shorted end to end. On the depiction to the left which you have labeled shorted, it is not what central flow has shown and i never claimed it to be. Do you not consider the windings on the right that you labeled not shorted, to be shorted at all??? Never said winding blue is shorted to winding red. but as in fig 3, the blue is shorted at the ends and the red is shorted at the ends.
You seem to be complicating this.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 02:30:54
You seem to be complicating this.
It doesn't seem that way to me. My brain just works differently from yours.
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 02:30:54
Do you not consider the windings on the right that you labeled not shorted, to be shorted at all???
I did not label the one on the right "not shorted".
To me the device depicted in Diag.3 is a 2-terminal device because it interfaces to external world with 2 terminals.
When I measure these 2 terminals of the device depicted on the right my ohmmeter reads "opened" and when do the same measurement on the device depicted on the left my ohmmeter reads "shorted". ...thus I would label them accordingly.
I was suspecting that you did not abstract the entire device the same way I did, hence my clarification question to you. I treat components as blocks on block diagrams, you do not. My way of conceptualizing things is not mandatory, so you are not wrong - just different.
Before I asked you this question, I was thinking "
what if he treats Diag.3 as a 4-terminal device ?" and I asked myself "
Would the internal connections of the device in Diag.3 change the readings of my ohmmeter ?".
My logic and experience answered me: "
not if I measure blue-to blue ends and not if I measure red-to-red ends and not if I measure blue-to-red ends".
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 02:30:54
Never said winding blue is shorted to winding red.
That's right. You also did not qualify which terminals the word "shorted" referred to.
For me the device in Diag.3 is a block that has only 2-terminals, hence 2 ways to place 1 short. For you it has 4-terminals, so 6 ways to place 1 short.
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 02:30:54
but as in fig 3, the blue is shorted at the ends and the red is shorted at the ends.
...and to me these are internal connections that do not even show up on the block diagram, which is the way I think.
OK, now that you have clarified what you meant, I can answer your prior question in the next post...
now i pose this to you. did your pic of the 2 bifi coils in that post not have labels below each of the 2 bifilar coils when you originally posted it, and now there are no labels????
shall i provide a screenshot? better yet, did anyone here see that there 'was labels below each of the 2 bifilar coils, and now there are not????
i was trying. i was trying really hard to have a reasonable discussion with you. but here we go again. you edited that post with the 2 bifi coils.
MAGLUVIN
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 03:47:30
now i pose this to you. did your pic of the 2 bifi coils in that post not have labels below each of the 2 bifilar coils when you originally posted it, and now there are no labels????
Yes there were and still are but their order is incidental.
I consider the device on the left "shorted" and the one on the right "not shorted" ...and you consider them
both "shorted". I got the message and adjusted for it in my communication with you.
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 03:47:30
you edited that post with the 2 bifi coils.
Yes, I edited it 8 times but before you replied. I edit all of my posts until they are perfect and I do not see a problem in it. I do however see a problem with leaving bad grammar, spelling, punctuation, indentation, vocabulary, math, links, especially if they hamper understanding or convey the wrong ideas.
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 03:47:30
shall i provide a screenshot?
Yes.
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 00:37:07
Can we agree that by the looks of it, inducing the 2 shorted bifi windings cannot, or say should not, induce a voltage difference between the capacitor terminals? If we cannot agree, where does the exchange of electrons from one plate (winding) to the other in order to even
No, we cannot agree on that.
Subjecting the device depicted in Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119534#msg119534) to the magnetic flux that moves like this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119552#msg119552), induces an electric potential difference between the device's two terminals (i.o.w: a voltmeter connected to these terminals will read non-zero DC).
This potential difference is caused by the polarization of bound charges in the dielectric, metal-electron redistribution and the transport of unbound electrons and ions between the plates/wires of the capacitor (in air or the dielectric). Precharging the capacitor to a high voltage before/during the magnetic induction will ionize the air between the plates/wires and increase the unbound charge transport between the plates. Subjecting the space between the plates/wires to a radioactive source will have a similar effect.
Some of these have a permanent effect on the charge of the capacitor and some do not.
Note: I edited this post 11 times already - deal with it.
i tried, as i said. from now on, post as you will. i will not comment or reply to you directly.
im done with you.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 04:28:11
i tried, ...
All you tried is to harp on insignificant issues and skirt the important ones (e.g.: #871 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119574#msg119574)). Just petty...
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.27, 04:28:11
im done with you.
Is your position so weak that it cannot withstand a debate ?
The core is 2 bifilar coils and like coils shorted. It is at a first glance A CAPACITOR. At a second glance, when another AC coil is wound over the top, the core is two shorted coils of an air coil transformer, no magnetic core.
At a third glance it is two shorted loops which will have a huge circulating current passing through them when the overwound coil is passing AC.
Fourthly, the overwound coil will act as a third capacitive plate to the bifilar core capacitor, that is 3 plates that are all capacitively COUPLED.
FROM MY PHONE, may correct typos later.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.27, 07:53:08
The core is 2 bifilar coils and like coils shorted.
Below are 3 bifilar coils (not 6!). Each one is composed of 2 monofilar coils.
Each of these bifilar coils has two terminals.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54432)
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.27, 07:53:08
It is at a first glance A CAPACITOR.
So this would indicate the bifilar coil type depicted in Diag.3. Correct ?
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.27, 11:19:25
Below are 3 bifilar coils (not 6!). Each one is composed of 2 monofilar coils.
Each of these bifilar coils has two terminals.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54432)
So this would indicate the bifilar coil type depicted in Diag.3. Correct ?
Of course 3.
Zero L and maximum C
It is equivalent to 2 capacitor plates with a very large area, is it not?
So if you look at the electric field, and the distributive current, they will be perpenducular to any coil that would be wound over the CORE.
So any coil which has L wound over the core would act as another plate and also induce current if that coil has AC passing through it.
From my phone, maybe typos😉
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.27, 16:29:04
Of course 3.
Hey Mike
thanks for confirming what I had said several times. O0
mags
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.27, 16:29:04
It is equivalent to 2 capacitor plates with a very large area, is it not?
Yes, at low frequencies when the lumped model of capacitance is still valid. At higher frequencies the electric potential is no longer the same along the wires and the lumped model fails.
Also, the thinner the wires are and the more of them are and the closer they are packed together, the larger the capacitance.
The choice of the wire's insulation thickness and material greatly affects this capacitance, too:
| Teflon (PTFE) | 2.1 |
| Polyethylene (PE) | 2.25–2.35 |
| Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) | 3.5–8.0 |
| Nylon (Polyamide) | 3.5–5.0 |
| Cross-linked Polyethylene (XLPE) | 2.3–2.4 |
| Silicone Rubber | 2.9–4.0 |
So out of these insulation materials, PVC creates the largest inter-turn capacitance.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.27, 16:29:04
So if you look at the electric field, and the distributive current, ...
Do you mean "displacement current" ?
Cross section perpendicular to the wires:(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56555)
The electric field between the wires of a charged bifilar coil in Diag.3 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119578#msg119578)Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.27, 16:29:04
...they will be perpendicular to any coil that would be wound over the CORE.
Is that coil, that is wound over it, a bifilar one or a monofilar one
?
You lost me, what does a bifilar coil have to do with the TPU's operation ?
In the past it was believed Steven Mark can not lie, would not lie and wants you to build his TPU.
It appears that a lot of members still believe Steven Mark cannot lie.
Steven Mark [was, is] a very creative person, more like Faraday, not like Maxwell, I don't believe he understood how the TPU worked.
He [was, is] a pathological liar, I believe that he assumed the identity of an engineer [Spherics] who claimed he worked with Steven Mark and delivered a load of mind altering garbage, people still point to it as proof of a theory they have.
I'm not looking to fight only to understand why some member's believe Steven Mark can not lie.
Quote from: Cheappower2012 on 2026.06.28, 00:36:52
You lost me, what does a bifilar coil have to do with the TPU's operation ?
It's not me. When I read on this forum that someone wants to know how such-and-such coil behaves, then I analyze it for them. This analysis is not an endorsement of their proposition.
I leave it to others to determine whether such coil really was inside the TPU and if it was then you can be sure it behaves the way I describe it.
...and if it wasn't a part of the TPU then it's still a nice puzzle to solve for posterity...
Yes I meant displacement current when charging and discharging.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.28, 12:28:42
Yes I meant displacement current when charging and discharging.
What about my second question mark ? (I made it red so you don't miss it)
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.06.28, 13:51:06
What about my second question mark ? (I made it red so you don't miss it)
Well the important thing is it has to be next to the core.
If you wind it as mono and then the other two coils over that, it will separate the other coils from the core.
SM stated that the "b" coils must be next to the collectors.
Now why did he call them collectors!!! Is not a capacitor a collector, a receiver of voltage!!
With SM you have to read into his mind, and then use your own.
The videos showed some things, eg the cut open toroid where there was nothing in the middle but a black cork. Black cork is used for sound insulation in the music recording industry. So where are the "collectors"!!!
You have to follow the switching and "stored" "blocked" current to see where the current goes in the cycle.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.29, 07:32:23
If you wind it as mono and then the other two coils over that, it will separate the other coils from the core.
Do you mean radial separation ?
Are you implying that monofilar winding in the second layer is not optimal ?
If "yes", then what is the optimal alternative to a monofilar winding in the second layer ?
Please don't just answer "bifilar" or "trifilar" without further qualification because many types of such windings are possible...
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=54432)
Some of the bifilar windings depicted above are fundamentally inductive and some are capacitive and some are neither.
A monofilar winding is fundamentally inductive...
Fig 3 C.C
mags
mags
The coil that is constantly changing current direction (AC) is "b" and has to be the closest to the "core".
This is like an induction "furnace". If there are gaps in the windings there is not a big problem, wound as a toroid the inner circumference and outer circumference are different. The core bifilar coils are shorted, zero L max C.
If you have a larger diameter wire for the core it is better for two reasons (core 16awg, tri coil 18awg), the core warms up with the high shorted "circulating" current. The tri coils in relation to the core , fan out at the circumference in relation which is not a big problem, each of the coils has its own function, but "b" must always be next to the core.
You need to look at SMs photos of a mockup to show the order of windings and direction of the current (collector "coils" current path). It is not the wire that is perpenducular, it is the current.
Read the pdf attached, understand the switching, current and where that current goes.
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.29, 17:48:09
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=356.0;attach=56583)
mags
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.27, 16:29:04
Of course 3.
Zero L and maximum C
That was Centraflow's answer regarding the first layer.
My latest questions (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=356.msg119606#msg119606) were about the second layer.
In the windings what is imperative is the b coils next to the core, the best way is the b coils between the a and c coils side by side, abc where b is both inductive and capacitive, and the core is not being blocked to the a and c coils.
This was shown by SMs mockup photos.
So abc is basically a trifilar layered over the core. Considering the criteria, only 1 layer.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.06.30, 16:24:40
So abc is basically a trifilar layered over the core. Considering the criteria, only 1 layer.
I agree ...but Centraflow writes:
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.29, 18:41:29
The coil that is constantly changing current direction (AC) is "b" and has to be the closest to the "core".
In English "the closest" is a superlative that has only one member.
Since "core" = a bifilar winding on Layer 1 then the "b" winding must be in the Layer 2 because that is radially "the closest" layer to Layer 1.
In Centraflow's statement, the other windings did not deserve "the closest" to Layer 1 superlative, thus by process of elimination that means they are "not the closest" to Layer 1, i.e. they are radially further, but that is contradicting his "side by side" statement.
The electric field between a monofilar winding wound over a type-3 bifilar winding looks as follows when AC flows through the monofilar:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56561)
The E-field of trifilar winding (of undefined type) wound over the type-3 bifilar winding would be much much more complex ...but most importantly it is undefined as of now because we have contradictory statements from Centraflow about what exactly is in Layer 2, monofilar, bifilar type-x, trifilar type-x winding... What ?
Also, is there a Layer 3, and if "yes" then how many and what type of windings are in it ?
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.29, 18:41:29
The coil that is constantly changing current direction (AC) is "b" and has to be the closest to the "core".
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.30, 09:44:17
In the windings what is imperative is the b coils next to the core, the best way is the b coils between the a and c coils side by side, abc where b is both inductive and capacitive, ...
So answer the question directly.
How many and what types of windings are in the Layer 2 ?
We already established that you call the winding in the Layer 1 - "the core" ...and that it is a type-3 bifilar winding.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.30, 09:44:17
...and the core is not being blocked to the a and c coils.
What does "blocked to" mean ?
Attached, again, are the SM "mockup" photos which were supplied right at the end when he must have been really frustrated that he could not show "exactly" how this is done.
You have to read into the photos and his words.
The "fields" have to be perpendicular to one another or it will not work.
Which fields? it really does not matter, electric or magnetic, just that you do not mix them electric with magnetic. He is showing the electric field, the current going through the wire.
The so called collectors he shows an electric field and two ends of which the two are collectors (mock up of two electric fields).
The mock up is, as he said at the time, the real way the coils are wound, remembering the "b" has to be the closest to the collectors (plural) and most important.
Look at the a b c coils, IF they were wound one on top of the other, the b coil would be first in the series followed by a and c, but they are NOT. The sequence is a b c and when you realize how it works you will understand.
The silver wire through the center is just a stiffener, coat hanger opened out, but the solder wire around the outside is a "ground shield" for EMI.
Inside the core there is only a former made of cork, black cork as used in an audio studio for sound proofing. (re the cut open TPU comments).
So what is a collector! answer a capacitor collecting voltage.
If you wind a mono coil for b over the core, you will block the return magnetic field from the core to the a and c coils, that field will be absorb back into the instigator, the b coil AC.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.01, 19:08:01
Inside the core there is only a former made of cork, ...
On the photo, it looks like 3 circumferential turns of thick orange wire and one of coathanger wire and "shield".
All other windings have toroidal turns.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.01, 19:21:38
On the photo, it looks like 3 circumferential turns of thick orange wire and one of coathanger wire and "shield".
All other windings have toroidal turns.
Yes it is 3 turns of thick wire demonstating the electric field, not the winding.
The over wound solenoids electric field is perpendicular, passes through the wire of the coils. The core which is two wires shorted forming a capacitor, being shorted there is NO L, the electric field is perpendicular to the solenoid field. Like wise if you look at it from the point of view of magnetic fields, they are also perpendicular to one another.
The other point is each plate has a different charge + & -, and the overwound "b" coil has alternating current which induces a current in both the plates of the core. This will create a reflecting magnetic field back to the over wound solenoids, as within an induction heater. The thing is though one "plate is charge + and the other - .
The current in the "b" coil is running in the opposite direction to the current in the "a" & "c" coils, the magnetic fields produced are bucking one another, NOT THE CURRENT.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.02, 08:39:49
The current in the "b" coil is running in the opposite direction to the current in the "a" & "c" coils, ...
Is the frequency of this current supposed to match the self-resonance frequency of the bifilar3 winding located underneath it ?
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.02, 17:35:43
Is the frequency of this current supposed to match the self-resonance frequency of the bifilar3 winding located underneath it ?
What happens at the startup gets to be complicated as this goes through more sequences.
At the start A fet is ON and negative but changing to positive when it goes OFF and B fet is ON and negative. At this point the bifilar CORE capacitance charges up, + at A and - at B.
When B fet goes OFF and turns positive, and the C fet turns ON and is negative, the C3 cap charges. At this point the core capacitance has not changed polarity, you just have two capacitances charged and in Series +-+-.
Now B fet switches again, negative and then positive and the A fet goes ON and the drain and A core are negative.
What happens is a complicated shorting of the capacitances and a moving charge separation within the output coil.
What you need to look at is how the "b" coil (b1+b2) are connected because each end is both + and negative depending on which mosfet is PULLING from which end ;)
I asked you to relate two frequencies ...not to describe the commutation and capacitance charging sequence.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.03, 18:34:53
I asked you to relate two frequencies ...not to describe the commutation and capacitance charging sequence.
If there was not a 3rd frequency placed into the system (created by C3 external cap), and only two frequencies which are 25kHz and 50kHz (2:1) then there would be a clash always at the same place.
If you take a transformer with a single primary and a secondary which is shorted, you have a current transformer.
If while the primary is excited you un-short the secondary what happens? Be careful if you try it, you may kill yourself.
This is all Tesla!
The thing is here there are two shorted secondaries which also make up a capacitor, hence the name FLUX CAPACITOR.
The primary is "b" the secondaries and cap the core. :D
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.04, 11:07:58
If there was not a 3rd frequency placed into the system (created by C3 external cap), and only two frequencies which are 25kHz and 50kHz (2:1) then there would be a clash always at the same place.
But I was not asking about two input frequencies "placed into the system".
I was asking:
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.02, 17:35:43
Is the frequency of this current supposed to match the self-resonance frequency of the bifilar3 winding located underneath it ?
Where "this current" refers to the current flowing in the winding which is wound over the bifilar3 winding underneath it.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.02, 17:35:43
If you take a transformer with a single primary and a secondary which is shorted, you have a current transformer.
A current transformer is a type of transformer that reduces (or multiplies) pulsed or alternating current, producing a current in its secondary which is proportional to the current in its primary.
So a transformer with a shorted secondary meets this definition but its secondary current cannot be converted to voltage with a CSR for easy metrology.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.04, 11:07:58
If while the primary is excited you un-short the secondary what happens?
Depends on the turn ratio between the primary and secondary, but this is a distraction from the answer to my question about the 2 frequencies.
The core bifilar windings do not have resonance.
Those 2 core windings and the capacitance between them do not form a resonant circuit.
Has been stated earlier
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.07.05, 01:42:52
The core bifilar windings do not have resonance.
Those 2 core windings and the capacitance between them do not form a resonant circuit.
Has been stated earlier
So if I hit a bifilar3 winding with a momentary pulse as shown below, then the scope will not register any oscillations of the current
after the pulse ?
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56663)
Air-core assumed
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.05, 02:23:52
So if I hit a bifilar3 with a momentary pulse as shown below, the scope will not register any oscillations of the current after the pulse ?
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56663) Air-core assumed
Well to apply here, the pulse you should be looking to apply would be via a separate primary B wound around the core. When you pulse and induce the core, Diag.3 wound, you are inducing each of the core windings, both in the same orientation. As Mike said, they would be bucking each other and the capacitance between them would have no interaction in the process.
Likewise if you apply a charge to the capacitance, it will just charge. That's it.
Now, how else would you apply the pulse you are thinking of?
mags
well now that i have 'access rights' to see your pic, i see you are just charging the capacitance of the core windings and nothing more. might as well make an LC with a shorted L. but, a wire does have inductance, and if there is a spit of resonance, it should not be anywhere near or close to what one might think, considering the actual windings.
unless i am mistaken and you have already performed the experiment and show differently.
mags
considering your test circuit as shown, it is off topic and should be deleted along with your post. it is not how mike intended those core windings to be driven or used.
mags
I think that a method used to excite the bifilar3 winding is good for measuring its self-oscillation frequency if that excitation method stops influencing the bifilar3 winding AFTER the excitation pulse ends.
The method depicted in my diagram is the easiest to realize practically and has this desirable property that after the excitation pulse ends, the excitation circuit becomes disconnected and the bifilar3 winding is free to oscillate in isolation without any influence from the exciter.
Other methods of excitation keep influencing the bifilar3 winding after the excitation phase and are subject to unpredictable variables such as synchronization of the wire pitch and turn phase of the other windings in Layer 2.
Also, the notion that a half of the bifilar3 winding is always at the same electric potential is false for wavelengths which are shorter than the length of the winding ...just like in the dipole antenna below:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Dipole_antenna_standing_waves_animation_6_-_5fps.gif/330px-Dipole_antenna_standing_waves_animation_6_-_5fps.gif)
A helical/coiled wire slows down the wave propagation but it does not fundamentally change that nonuniform voltage distribution along its length.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.05, 09:44:22
I think that a method used to excite the bifilar3 winding is good for measuring its self-oscillation frequency if that excitation method stops influencing the bifilar3 winding AFTER the excitation pulse ends.
The method depicted in my diagram is the easiest to realize practically and has this desirable property that after the excitation pulse ends, the excitation circuit becomes disconnected and the bifilar3 winding is free to oscillate in isolation without any influence from the excitation circuit.
Other methods of excitation keep influencing the bifilar3 winding after the excitation phase and are subject to unpredictable variables such as synchronization of the wire pitch and turn phase of the other windings in Layer 2.
Also, the notion that a half of the bifilar3 winding is always at the same electric potential is false for wavelengths which are shorter than the length of the winding ...just like in the dipole antenna below:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Dipole_antenna_standing_waves_animation_6_-_5fps.gif/330px-Dipole_antenna_standing_waves_animation_6_-_5fps.gif)
A helical/coiled wire slows down the wave propagation but it does not fundamentally change that nonuniform voltage distribution along its length.
It naturally has a self Fr like all capacitors, but here with the plates being "coils" things start oscillating more than normal.
To find that Fr is quite easy by injecting a 1kHz square wave via a 10M ohm resistor and scope the other side of the resistor. BUT the point is A "plate "is positive and B "plate" is negative, do they change polarity!!! because A plate is one of the output terminals!!!
Well think what happens at the B drain in relation to C3 and the core.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.05, 11:41:27
It naturally has a self Fr like all capacitors, but here with the plates being "coils" things start oscillating more than normal.
Does "Fr" stand for "Frequency of Resonance" ?
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=356.0;attach=56671)
Are the frequencies circled in red similar to each other ?
What is the optimal relationship between them ?
Yes and of course, but not the same
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.05, 19:35:12
Yes and of course, but not the same
So if these two circled frequencies are not the same then what is the relationship between them (what is their ratio) ?
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.06, 15:21:28
So if these two circled frequencies are not the same then what is the relationship between them (what is their ratio) ?
Quote SM :-
You take the "frequency of interest" and multiply it by 2.1 and 3.2+- End Quote.
So what is the frequency of interest? This was my starting point. Reference was made to Earth frequency and Earth magnetic field!!!!! Earth frequency is 7.83Hz very low, the Earth magnetic field does not have "frequency", it is just a very very large ball magnet with low flux. On the other hand SM was an audio engineer, lots of frequencies from near 0-20kHz, take your pick.
So a lot of work wnt into what bloody frequency was the frequency of interest! His pet field was DVD for cinema type audio for a home system, a codex frequency used is 7.8125kHz, so I went for that.
7.8125 X 3.2 = 25kHz wow
7.8125 X 2.1 = 16.40625kHz hummmm a bit disapointing, but why these ratios, 2.1 and 3.2, the difference is 1.1.
But 2.1 and 3.1 were + or - , think again. Well it has to be close +-, lets work back wards, which I am good as I am dislexic.
He said that in the sequence, A and C must never be ON together, you will not like it. Also he said about changing direction of the sequence and joked about in the southern hemi: it runs in reverse. That clinched the sequence to ABCBA, so any clock would be a divide by 4 for switching B twice, forward and reverse.
More to come as I have to go out.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.06, 17:55:50
Earth frequency is 7.83Hz very low, the Earth magnetic field does not have "frequency", it is just a very very large ball magnet with low flux.
That's right.
I hope this is the last time I read about it.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.06, 17:55:50
So what is the frequency of interest?
Is it the resonance frequency (
Fr ) of the bifilar winding (AB) located in the 1
st Layer ?
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56711)
AB resonates "between" polarity change at the transition B to A fet switching, which is the start and end of the switching sequence.
See attached
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.07, 12:15:55
AB resonates "between" polarity change ...
Does it resonate at
Fr ?
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.07, 12:29:13
See attached
That drawing depicts 6 windings. Which Layer contains the 6
th ?
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.07, 13:20:25
Does it resonate at Fr ?
That drawing depicts 6 windings. Which Layer contains the 6th ?
Foreget it I am gone, it is quite obvious you and Peter do not want me here.
I have taken screen copies of all the appropriate posts in case in the future I need them for some legal reason.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.07.07, 16:51:37
Foreget it I am gone, it is quite obvious you and Peter do not want me here.
I have taken screen copies of all the appropriate posts in case in the future I need them for some legal reason.
I not sure whats gone on but that certainly isnt the case from my point of view. :-[
Quote from: Peterae on 2026.07.07, 17:35:50
I not sure whats gone on but that certainly isnt the case from my point of view. :-[
I did not have any private communication with Centraflow for at least a month.
Every word I wrote is here.
whether its been said or not, maybe a1 and a2 are the same winding with a tap. same with c1 and c2.... but then where is b?
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.07.08, 00:10:18
whether its been said or not, maybe a1 and a2 are the same winding with a tap. same with c1 and c2.... but then where is b?
Apparently between
a and
c:
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.06.30, 09:44:17
In the windings what is imperative is the b coils next to the core, the best way is the b coils between the a and c coils side by side, abc where b is both inductive and capacitive, and the core is not being blocked to the a and c coils.
This was shown by SMs mockup photos.
...and "
side by side" must mean "in the same layer".
so wind trifi 3 wires in on layer abc. so maybe b is just not shown here, for now. but i agree.
mags
Ok. 'b' shown, but separately from the main circuit.
So there is 'a', center tapped into a1 and a2. Likewise with 'c'.
So those 'a' and 'c' are 2 windings.
Then there is the core, which are labeled 'b' and 'a'. 2 windings. Now at 4.
Then below the circuit is the big 'B'.
Total of 5 windings. Seems like its all there. Where did you see a sixth winding?
The ac input CMC looks to be there for its own purposes.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.07.08, 04:44:00
Total of 5 windings. Seems like its all there. Where did you see a sixth winding?
I numbered them with red numbers. I did not count the CMC.
if we count them as individual, a1, a2, c1, c2, then your not counting the b winding below that circuit
you should see 7. remember the b winding wound with a and c.
mags
ok.so a1 and c1 do look to be on their own, connected at the ends. so 7 windings
the b transistor at the top. 1 leg is cut off at the top of the paper. trying to see what path it connects to do what it does.
mags
I know. It depends how they are grouped.
Some people treat bifilar/trifilar winding as two/three separate windings and ...some treat it as one component / winding.
Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.09, 18:20:42
I know. It depends how they are grouped.
Some people treat bifilar/trifilar winding as two/three separate windings and ...some treat it as one component / winding.
its just if a1 and a2 are 1 winding, center tapped and connected according to circuit, likewise with c1 and c2, then just one half of the second layer a1 and c1, over the 'core', will be covering half of the core in a shorted bifi condition like the core windings, except that b would be the 3rd wire wound with the a and c, supposedly the full length of the second layer wind. this is very complicated....
mags
I was in the group with Mike, have the schematics at the time. That seemed to change with the wind.
I am under his NDA so doubt he would like me to post things. I did up a sequencing circuit that did exactly
what he said and then he changed it. So I was back at square one again. Ask for help and got crickets.
Left for that reason.
Quote from: Thaelin on 2026.07.12, 06:11:39
That seemed to change with the wind.
...
I did up a sequencing circuit that did exactly what he said and then he changed it.
Why do you think he makes these changes ?
Quote from: Thaelin on 2026.07.12, 06:11:39
I was in the group with Mike, have the schematics at the time. That seemed to change with the wind.
I am under his NDA so doubt he would like me to post things. I did up a sequencing circuit that did exactly
what he said and then he changed it. So I was back at square one again. Ask for help and got crickets.
Left for that reason.
That's because Mike is something we call an "inventor". I have the same defect as Mike does.
Think of it this way... give one man a potato peeler then ask him to improve it and he sees nothing other than that which is in front of him. Ask another man and he could talk for hours detailing the countless ways we could improve upon the process, this is an inventor.
Mike is an inventor like myself and our "potato peeler" if you will changes in design and action by the minute. By the time you emailed him and asked for an update the possible iterations could have changed countless times. When I was younger and brighter, my creative period, I got frustrated because as I was writing all my notes on the latest experiment I had 20 new ideas rendering the notes I was writing pointless. Why takes notes if what were writing is obsolete?, so I stopped taking notes and burned them all to great satisfaction. The fact is, if when working on something if the possible number of variations or ideas doesn't start snowballing on us we are no inventor we are a follower.
Ask yourself this question, if you were making an obscene amount of progress on a daily basis and everything is changing by the minute what would you think of someone asking questions about some process you had already moved past weeks ago?. I mean it's in the past and already rendered obsolete, do we give the person we suppose to help now obsolete information or wait?, what would you do?.
It begs the ultimate question of how much progress we make per unit of time?. At the end of each day I ask myself how much progress was made?. Not money that's BS, anyone can make money. I mean the progress of science, an idea or technology. To improve something to a better state in which we found it. Personally I feel like shit unless some kind of improvement on some level is made in a day. It's not an ego thing it's a being useful and feeling good about ourselves thing...
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2026.08.03, 05:39:17
That's because Mike is something we call an "inventor". I have the same defect as Mike does.
Think of it this way... give one man a potato peeler then ask him to improve it and he sees nothing other than that which is in front of him. Ask another man and he could talk for hours detailing the countless ways we could improve upon the process, this is an inventor.
Mike is an inventor like myself and our "potato peeler" if you will changes in design and action by the minute. By the time you emailed him and asked for an update the possible iterations could have changed countless times. When I was younger and brighter, my creative period, I got frustrated because as I was writing all my notes on the latest experiment I had 20 new ideas rendering the notes I was writing pointless. Why takes notes if what were writing is obsolete?, so I stopped taking notes and burned them all to great satisfaction. The fact is, if when working on something if the possible number of variations or ideas doesn't start snowballing on us we are no inventor we are a follower.
Ask yourself this question, if you were making an obscene amount of progress on a daily basis and everything is changing by the minute what would you think of someone asking questions about some process you had already moved past weeks ago?. I mean it's in the past and already rendered obsolete, do we give the person we suppose to help now obsolete information or wait?, what would you do?.
It begs the ultimate question of how much progress we make per unit of time?. At the end of each day I ask myself how much progress was made?. Not money that's BS, anyone can make money. I mean the progress of science, an idea or technology. To improve something to a better state in which we found it. Personally I feel like shit unless some kind of improvement on some level is made in a day. It's not an ego thing it's a being useful and feeling good about ourselves thing...
Thank you Don.
Yes we both have the same problem but over the years we use it to our advantage.
For example :- I found out how you can run a car on water, I thought I knew before I actually got my hands on the orginal material, it then confirmed my thoughts.
The funny thing is all previous "OU" inventions all work on the same basis which was found by Tesla and patented but under a coverup name of a transformer. Yes it was there infront of us all this time.
I do not supply a complete kit of material and construction drawings, neither did Tesla, but there it is.
Floyd was the other who used the same.
All are variants to produce excess energy from the same base.
So where does the energy come from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote
So where does the energy come from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By overwhelming the countering force (lenz) with the same derived spin direction, which in turn forces equilibrium to see itself as the force that needs countering.
What's the difference between a magnet and an electromagnet? You can wind an electromagnet in both directions...
"By overwhelming the countering force (lenz) with the same derived spin direction"
can you elaborate on that? ^-^
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.08.06, 16:42:37
"By overwhelming the countering force (lenz) with the same derived spin direction"
can you elaborate on that? ^-^
mags
Give it more lenz..... it can only be one of two wiring directions to counter a known coil and polarity. Lenz shrinks, but adding the same field, Lenz grows... awkward situation for equilibrium.
give it more lenz.....
by adding more drive coils?
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.08.07, 02:26:55
give it more lenz.....
by adding more drive coils?
mags
Not necessarily more, just redirecting the field of say a CCW coil into a CW coil. The caveat is the CW coil you want to fill up with CCW spin must be lower resistance if all the coils are equal, otherwise the equal resistance between counterwound coils yields very little. You can solve that problem with series and parallel connections to get a resistance bias between the two.
For example: 2 CCW coils connected in series, 2 CW coils connected in parallel - join the two together (inner winding to inner, outer winding to outer) and induce all coils equally. Wrap an output winding over all 4 coils. You are forcing the CW coil who already has a natural lenz in play that shrinks, to now have a 'lenz' that is growing as well. This shrinking/growing at the same time can be see on the beach - water from the wave flowing across the sand, while water is also flowing from the sand back to the ocean as the wave recedes - that ripple that sits on top of the two waves moving in two directions is our free energy. This is a simple example, but underpins any OU device.
The TPU still gets hot because there is no feedback, i.e. he is pulsing independant of the output, so despite being OU, he still had Lenz nipping at his heels.
when you say spin... what is your description of that?
i have my own ideas on that, but just want to know what your thinking is in your post as to what it does.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.08.07, 05:22:00
when you say spin... what is your description of that?
i have my own ideas on that, but just want to know what your thinking is in your post as to what it does.
mags
I believe that 'lenz' has been mis-characterised as resistance. I think that resistance is an opposite field closing the gate everytime we try to open it. We've been tricked into thinking the North is both rise and fall back to zero for 1/2 a wavelength, when it is actually a South field that is shrinking back to zero because that is it's job.
I think the field rotates, and the reason you can't detect it is because this 'opposite field' is spinning the opposite direction and cancelling perceived motion from the outside, all as part of its function. This all gets exposed when moving from magnets to counterwound coils.
EM field in a coil must equalise, and that equalisation doesn't care if it has to be at 180° to do it. If you can get that to happen and can sustain it, the electrons in the wire are drawn in and pulled out, instead of the two resistant to change steps that we currently call lenz.
" We've been tricked into thinking the North is both rise and fall back to zero for 1/2 a wavelength, when it is actually a South field that is shrinking back to zero because that is it's job."
i have to disagree here... if we energize a coil and build a magnetic field, and then de energize, at first the expanding field cuts other windings on the way outward. that expansion and cutting create opposition to input until the current has reached max along with the mag field reaching max. then when you de energize, that collapsing field cuts the windings again but now, say left on expansion and right on collapse. inducing a current that is in the same direction as was the input current.
if what you say were true, that the field flips from N on expansion and S on collapse, then the collapse would also induce a reverse current in reference to input currents, of which doesnt happen. like passing a wire with a N pole mag to the left and then passing a S mag to the right. both will induce current in the wire in the same direction.
people get the BEMF as to mean a reverse current on collapse. "capture back emf" :-\. temporary opposition to input. bemf only happens during input and build up of current and magnetic field. CEMF is that self induced current that opposes the input till max and max. people at OU years ago had me believing that the collapse currents were reverse of the input currents. i have several switching power supply books. close examination of different simple buck or boost circuits and what happens each cycle will show that i am correct. put one on the bench. i am correct. so now i have a very good understanding of the ins and outs of induction and mutual induction.
when you fully understand the collapsing field is the same polarity as the expanding field, unless maybe at zero crossing after collapse you will see a reversal, and know the direction of the cutting of the windings of a particular N or S polarity, it will stick with you.
mags
"I think the field rotates, and the reason you can't detect it is because this 'opposite field' is spinning the opposite direction and cancelling perceived motion from the outside, all as part of its function. This all gets exposed when moving from magnets to counterwound coils."
i think electrons have their own magnetic field that encircles the say, equator of the electron. not necessarily spinning, but say a disk of field. that field is how i see a reason the electron interacts with other magnetic fields. just my theory.
mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.08.07, 16:31:20
if what you say were true, that the field flips from N on expansion and S on collapse, then the collapse would also induce a reverse current in reference to input currents, of which doesnt happen. like passing a wire with a N pole mag to the left and then passing a S mag to the right. both will induce current in the wire in the same direction.
To clarify, I believe both fields North and South are operating at both ends of the magnet. I think N and S work together to grow and shrink, so it's not so much flipping, but handing off to the other polarity. It's this N and S working together that needs to be decoupled.
Quote from: unimmortal on 2026.08.10, 01:44:18
To clarify, I believe both fields North and South are operating at both ends of the magnet. I think N and S work together to grow and shrink, so it's not so much flipping, but handing off to the other polarity. It's this N and S working together that needs to be decoupled.
agreed. they are both one and the same depending on point of reference. look into the face of a N pole of a magnet, then look out from the face out is S.
I dont think there is any difference between the N and S as in strength or other characteristics.
mags
For once I can see a meaningful discussion for once.
Lenz is involved.
Which is faster moving, an electric field or a magnetic field.
In a normal transformer the core is iron or "ferrite", the primary coil induces a changing magnetic field into the core which then induces into the secondary.
Dropping a magnet down a copper tube produces an equal opposing field (Lenz), is there a "delay" in the returning field? Maybe you do not see the delay because the tube is thousands of shorted loops joined together?
If those shorted loops were just two parallel independant loops which each has a charge, one positive and one negative, will that make a directional difference to a returning field (think perpendicular).
If those charges are oscillating at a frequency of MHz!!!!!!
I think I have given you enough to think about.
To measure a propagation delay, we need a signal which, when it crosses a threshold in either direction, triggers the start and stop of the stopwatch.
In the quasi-stationary regime – that is, in any region where the wavelengths associated with the signals are considerably longer than the dimensions of the system – the variation in the signal is far too slow; at two different points, the signal is virtually the same, making it impossible to take a measurement by detecting a threshold.
As for doing so without a threshold, simply by observing a phase delay, the result is incorrect because, once the regime is established, it is a steady state resulting from an incident signal superimposed on the signals it induces or that are reflected, so that one can no longer speak of the departure and arrival of a single signal.
Whilst it is easy to measure the delay of a signal of several MHz in a 10-metre cable, as each half-cycle produces a pulse, it is virtually impossible to do so with a 1 kHz signal, whose slope will be virtually constant at every point unless the cable is several kilometres to tens of kilometres long.
The commonly held belief that, because the signal is square-wave even at 1 kHz, there is a sharp edge allowing a delay to be distinguished, is equally false. Even if we did not have standing waves – which requires the utmost experimental care, particularly for a spread-spectrum signal such as a square wave – the measurement taken will be of the propagation time of the high-frequency component – for example, the 2000–2 MHz harmonic – and we will know nothing about the speed of the 1 kHz component, which is certainly different. Not only do permeability and permittivity influence the propagation speed and are generally frequency-dependent, but the path taken will also differ; for example, a high-frequency component may pass through a coil via a capacitive effect, without following the wire.
Even less measurable would be the action/reaction time associated with a magnet falling into a tube, given that the magnetic field varies extremely slowly over time. The magnetic field created by the variation in the magnet's flux within the tube is felt almost instantaneously by the magnet itself, which continues its path whilst immersed in the field resulting from the superposition of the two, his own and that of the reaction. In any case, a delay does not alter Lenz's law. If there is propagation, it is because energy is carried along step by step, for example in a ferromagnetic circuit, with action and reaction occurring with the medium at every moment and at every point.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2026.08.13, 21:46:29
To measure a propagation delay, we need a signal which, when it crosses a threshold in either direction, triggers the start and stop of the stopwatch.
In the quasi-stationary regime – that is, in any region where the wavelengths associated with the signals are considerably longer than the dimensions of the system – the variation in the signal is far too slow; at two different points, the signal is virtually the same, making it impossible to take a measurement by detecting a threshold.
As for doing so without a threshold, simply by observing a phase delay, the result is incorrect because, once the regime is established, it is a steady state resulting from an incident signal superimposed on the signals it induces or that are reflected, so that one can no longer speak of the departure and arrival of a single signal.
Whilst it is easy to measure the delay of a signal of several MHz in a 10-metre cable, as each half-cycle produces a pulse, it is virtually impossible to do so with a 1 kHz signal, whose slope will be virtually constant at every point unless the cable is several kilometres to tens of kilometres long.
The commonly held belief that, because the signal is square-wave even at 1 kHz, there is a sharp edge allowing a delay to be distinguished, is equally false. Even if we did not have standing waves – which requires the utmost experimental care, particularly for a spread-spectrum signal such as a square wave – the measurement taken will be of the propagation time of the high-frequency component – for example, the 2000–2 MHz harmonic – and we will know nothing about the speed of the 1 kHz component, which is certainly different. Not only do permeability and permittivity influence the propagation speed and are generally frequency-dependent, but the path taken will also differ; for example, a high-frequency component may pass through a coil via a capacitive effect, without following the wire.
All that goes without saying.Even less measurable would be the action/reaction time associated with a magnet falling into a tube, given that the magnetic field varies extremely slowly over time.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2026.08.13, 21:46:29
(The magnetic field created by the variation in the magnet's flux within the tube is felt almost instantaneously by the magnet itself, which continues its path whilst immersed in the field resulting from the superposition of the two, his own and that of the reaction.)
In your your words above that would be the case if the reaction frequencies of polarities were the same, but not if the reaction polarity is changing at a specific rate with the changing incident rate of polarity change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poynting_vector
In any case, a delay does not alter Lenz's law.
Who said it does? Really it is all to do with the action and reaction of magnetic fields, and rates of change with one another, which are special.If there is propagation, it is because energy is carried along step by step, for example in a ferromagnetic circuit, with action and reaction occurring with the medium at every moment and at every point.
There is no ferromagnetic material in this device - that would be very detrimental as there is sufficient heat as it is due to induction (the inductive furnace effect), and has to be removed.
What I was responding to was full of suggestions incompatible with those things that go without saying, as well as basic questions whose answers lie within those things that go without saying, such as "is there a 'delay' in the returning field?". Of course there is, but it is unmeasurable for the reasons I have stated; the superposition of standing waves in the near field masks any propagation-related phenomena.
As for the Poynting vector—another consequence of those things that go without saying—, it is irrelevant here. In a system of standing or quasi-stationary waves, the average Poynting vector is zero. In other words, energy can thus be exchanged locally between the electric and magnetic fields without a net transport of energy in any given direction. The usefulness of the Poynting vector is therefore very limited, unlike in the case of electromagnetic waves where energy is transported away.
If people don't fully grasp the implications of things that go without saying, it's better for someone to articulate them—which is what I did.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2026.08.10, 16:45:18
Dropping a magnet down a copper tube produces an equal opposing field (Lenz), is there a "delay" in the returning field? Maybe you do not see the delay because the tube is thousands of shorted loops joined together?
I posited a similar question in a Discord thread a month or two ago (hopefully on the same tangent):
If we drop a magnet through a shorted coil (or a copper ring) the magnet will slow and fall at a certain speed. The lenz BEMF forces on the ring will cause it to slow. And create a current in the ring.
If we added a second shorted coil (or insulated copper ring) adjacent to the first, would the magnet then fall slower or faster?
It *should* fall slower because we now have two separate opposed eddy currents,
BUT each eddy current also opposes its neighboring coil, so those fields may partially cancel. So the resulting magnet might actually fall faster than with a single ring/coil.
Which leads to the next question, would the two rings then be at different relative potentials to each-other since their fields are in opposition? ^-^
Quote from: Hakasays on 2026.09.02, 09:12:23
If we drop a magnet through a shorted coil (or a copper ring) the magnet will slow and fall at a certain speed. The lenz BEMF forces on the ring will cause it to slow. And create a current in the ring.
This slowing down always happens only on approach. Slowing down on departure happens only when the resistance of the coil is greater than its inductive reactance ( R > X
L ).
Qualitatively, when the resistance is smaller, then the current induced in the coil during the approach of the magnet generates a magnetic field that repels the magnet and decelerates it on approach and repels it away on departure, thus accelerating it back up.
In the ideal case when R=0 all of the magnet's kinetic energy which is lost on approach, is completely restored on departure and the net kinetic energy loss is zero (no net drag). Lesson: Pure Lenz law does not cause a net loss of energy however non-zero impedance - does.
The magnetic field generated by the shorted coil
is always proportional to the induced current flowing in it.(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55052)
The current induced in a shorted coil
as a function of its resistance and magnet's position.Note that when X
L > R ≥ 0 (here 2Ω > R ≥ 0Ω) the current induced in the coil
does not change direction as the magnet approaches and departs, thus the magnetic field generated by the shorted coil does not change the direction, either ...and the magnet experiences repulsion on both approach and departure, albeit not necessarily equally. These repulsive forces integrated over distance approach equality and sum to zero as R → 0.
When R > X
L then the induced current changes direction as the magnet approaches and departs, thus the magnetic field generated by the shorted coil changes the direction, too ...and the magnet experiences repulsion on approach and attraction on departure - which always creates instantaneous drag ...and net drag, too.
This entire problem is similar to the following one:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56867)
P.S.
Most ignorants intuitively extrapolate like this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56529).
Thanks for the more detailed description Verpies. I think what actually threw me off was I expected the field between a pair of coils/loops to repel rather than attract.
Still brings some interesting scenarios when we charge/discharge this unique capacitor and what that does to the surrounding field patterns.. C.C
Quote from: Hakasays on 2026.09.03, 10:07:30
Thanks for the more detailed description Verpies. I think what actually threw me off was I expected the field between a pair of coils/loops to repel rather than attract.
Since the force between two conductors is attractive when the currents in these conductors flow in the same direction and repulsive if they flow in opposite directions, the coaxial rings will attract each other axially when carrying currents in the same direction.
However, the same rings will be expanded radially by the diametrically opposite currents.
So if you had a long narrow elastic superconductive tube and you forced a permanent magnet inside it, then this tube would tend to change its shape into a large Hula-Hoop.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56869)
Quote from: Hakasays on 2026.09.03, 10:07:30
Still brings some interesting scenarios when we charge/discharge this unique capacitor and what that does to the surrounding field patterns.. C.C
If you take the experiment depicted below and modify it by inserting a capacitor in series with the loop and rotating them with the angular frequency 1/√(LC) then the amplitude of the alternating current induced in that loop will increase without bound when R=0.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=56867)