What is Known about the TPU

Author Topic: What is Known about the TPU (Read 589097 times)

Verpies	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #850 on: 2026-06-25, 14:44:50 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: forest on 2026-06-25, 13:09:43 Use diag 3 , close connections, I know there is patent aboout it Are you proposing to add more connections to the winding depicted in Diag.3 ? If "yes" then please draw these additional connections.

Groundloop

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #851 on: 2026-06-25, 16:10:40 »

Hero Member

Posts: 659

Quote from: Verpies on 2026-06-25, 07:41:39

This is not surprising because for the Lorentz force to charge the capacitor, the inducing magnetic field must be virtually moving parallel to the capacitor's wires like the field of that C-magnet ...

It is impossible to move the field parallel to the wires in Diag 3 because these wires are curved and spiralling.

« Last Edit: 2026-06-25, 17:38:48 by Groundloop »

Verpies	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #852 on: 2026-06-25, 16:24:34 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: Groundloop on 2026-06-25, 16:10:40 It is impossible to move the field parallel to the wires in Diag 3 because these wires are curved and spiralling. So the path of motion also needs to be curved.

Groundloop	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #853 on: 2026-06-25, 16:29:56 »
Hero Member Posts: 659	Quote from: Verpies on 2026-06-25, 16:24:34 So the path of motion also needs to be curved. If you curve the path then the motion of the field will not be parallel to the wires ! « Last Edit: 2026-06-25, 17:38:55 by Groundloop »

Verpies

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #854 on: 2026-06-25, 16:40:16 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4856

Quote from: Groundloop on 2026-06-25, 16:29:56

If you curve the path then the motion of the field will not be parallel to the wires !

So curves cannot be parallel but lines can ?
What about circular arcs which are also curves ?
What about full arcs which are circles ?

Do you realize that when you zoom in enough then almost every curve becomes a line ?
This is basic geometry and calculus.

What is Known about the TPU

ParallelCurves.gif (4.23 kB, 580x693 - viewed 77 times.)

Groundloop	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #855 on: 2026-06-25, 16:54:42 »
Hero Member Posts: 659	Quote from: Verpies on 2026-06-25, 16:40:16 Do you realize that when you zoom in enough then almost every curve becomes a line ? That's ridiculous. Curve is not a line. Arcs are not lines, either. Let's not get distracted with your imaginary geometry. How can you move the magnetic field parallel to the wires in Diag 3 to charge that cap?

Verpies

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #856 on: 2026-06-25, 17:01:30 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4856

Quote from: Groundloop on 2026-06-25, 16:54:42

How can you move the magnetic field parallel to the wires in Diag 3 to charge that cap?

Mechanically this can be accomplished like this:

The bifilar winding around the center post is of the type depicted in Diag.3

The same virtual movement of the magnetic flux can be achieved without any moving mechanical components and without permanent magnets.

Quote from: Groundloop on 2026-06-25, 16:54:42

That's ridiculous. Curve is not a line. Arcs are not lines, either.

That's why a surface of a calm lake appears flat ...the reason for it is different if Earth is a disk. Which is it ?

forest	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #857 on: 2026-06-25, 17:51:09 »
Hero Member Posts: 532	Quote from: Verpies on 2026-06-25, 14:44:50 Are you proposing to add more connections to the winding depicted in Diag.3 ? If "yes" then please draw these additional connections. Oh, sorry, my mistake. I thought about Diag 1 bifilar but closed.

Verpies	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #858 on: 2026-06-26, 12:43:25 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: forest on 2026-06-25, 17:51:09 Oh, sorry, my mistake. I thought about Diag 1 bifilar but closed. May I delete your messages about it then ?

Peterae	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #859 on: 2026-06-26, 13:36:56 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4696	Maybe worth a read over Arie Degus paper The MPC is the basis for a number of his devices. https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13989 and this one https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13892

Verpies

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #860 on: 2026-06-26, 16:29:02 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4856

Quote from: Peterae on 2026-06-26, 13:36:56

Maybe worth a read over Arie Degus paper The MPC is the basis for a number of his devices.
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13989

and this one
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2469.0;attach=13892

Thanks for the references. I read them but I am none the wiser.

I am not trying to figure the Modus Operandi of the TPU anyway. I just focus on its construction details (like how many windings, their types, terminals, turns, etc...)
I posted about the way to induce electric charge in the bifilar winding of Diag.3 only as a reply to Magluvin's question below:

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-24, 21:23:55

So here, Diag.3 is just a capacitor with connections tied to each end of the plates/windings, but in Mike's case, it is also being magnetically induced. What use would there be in doing that?

...I am not even sure that the TPU contains a winding like the one depicted in Diag.3 ... but Magluvin seems to think so.

forest	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #861 on: 2026-06-26, 20:48:41 »
Hero Member Posts: 532	Quote from: Verpies on 2026-06-26, 12:43:25 May I delete your messages about it then ? If you wish so. I don't know why nobody consider bifilar closed on itself as important

Verpies

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #862 on: 2026-06-26, 22:46:14 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4856

Quote from: forest on 2026-06-26, 20:48:41

If you wish so. I don't know why nobody consider bifilar closed on itself as important

I wish it only if your post was made in error, you acknowledge it and consider it without value.
...however since you are expressing a surprise about not getting a technical response to it then apparently you still consider it valuable and want to talk about it ...so I will not delete it unless that changes.

First of all, one of the reasons that you did not get response is most probably the phrase "bifilar closed on itself" which does not have a clear meaning in this language.
Phrases like "closed switch" or "closed circuit" are familiar to English speakers but a phrase like "closed coil" or "coil/winding closed on itself" seem really odd an unfamiliar.
Most people will skip things that they do not understand and move on rather then take the time and effort to clarify the meaning with the author.

Did you mean "shorted bifilar winding" ?

Magluvin

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #863 on: 2026-06-26, 22:57:32 »

Group: Mad Scientist
Hero Member

Posts: 1241

and I'm not sure the shorted bifi is really a part of the actual SM's TPU either, but... since Diag 3 has appeared to my attn, I'm wondering. Centraflow said some of the other windings connect to the leads of that shorted bifi. I just want to know what its function is other than a cap, being it is induced by the other windings.
Sorry if I seem locked on that, but it is strange.
I'm hoping Centraflow is onto something here.

mags

Verpies	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #864 on: 2026-06-26, 23:19:01 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-26, 22:57:32 I just want to know what its function is other than a cap, being it is induced by the other windings. Could its function be just that - to accept induction from other components ? Ordinary tapewound caps cannot be induced by magnetic flux moving in the direction depicted in Reply #856.

Magluvin

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #865 on: 2026-06-27, 00:37:07 »

Group: Mad Scientist
Hero Member

Posts: 1241

Quote from: Verpies on 2026-06-26, 23:19:01

Could its function be just that - to accept induction from other components ?
Ordinary tapewound caps cannot be induced by magnetic flux moving in the direction depicted in Reply #856.

Can we agree that by the looks of it, inducing the 2 shorted bifi windings cannot, or say should not, induce a voltage difference between the capacitor terminals? If we cannot agree, where does the exchange of electrons from one plate (winding) to the other in order to even measure a charge differential between the 2 outer leads of he shorted windings ?

...but like Centralflow said, some of the other windings connect to those. OK, then its just a capacitor. The big question is, how does inducing, magnetically, the 2 shorted windings give affect to the circuit? Does it affect how the capacitor works? Does the capacitance charged affect the induction of those windings in some way? Why is it in the core?

mags

Verpies	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #866 on: 2026-06-27, 01:39:09 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 00:37:07 Can we agree that by the looks of it, inducing the 2 shorted bifi windings ... I do not understand these words. Please clarify - which one of the following do you mean by "shorted bifi windings" when you refer to the winding depicted in Diag.3 ?: What is Known about the TPU Bifilar3_shorted_unshorted.png (124.9 kB, 1060x481 - viewed 52 times.)

Magluvin

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #867 on: 2026-06-27, 02:30:54 »

Group: Mad Scientist
Hero Member

Posts: 1241

In your pic above, the one on the right is fig 3 is it not? The red winding is shorted end to end and the blue winding is also shorted end to end. On the depiction to the left which you have labeled shorted, it is not what central flow has shown and i never claimed it to be. Do you not consider the windings on the right that you labeled not shorted, to be shorted at all??? Never said winding blue is shorted to winding red. but as in fig 3, the blue is shorted at the ends and the red is shorted at the ends.
You seem to be complicating this.

mags

Verpies

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #868 on: 2026-06-27, 03:31:09 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4856

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 02:30:54

You seem to be complicating this.

It doesn't seem that way to me. My brain just works differently from yours.

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 02:30:54

Do you not consider the windings on the right that you labeled not shorted, to be shorted at all???

I did not label the one on the right "not shorted".

To me the device depicted in Diag.3 is a 2-terminal device because it interfaces to external world with 2 terminals.
When I measure these 2 terminals of the device depicted on the right my ohmmeter reads "opened" and when do the same measurement on the device depicted on the left my ohmmeter reads "shorted". ...thus I would label them accordingly.
I was suspecting that you did not abstract the entire device the same way I did, hence my clarification question to you. I treat components as blocks on block diagrams, you do not. My way of conceptualizing things is not mandatory, so you are not wrong - just different.

Before I asked you this question, I was thinking "what if he treats Diag.3 as a 4-terminal device ?" and I asked myself "Would the internal connections of the device in Diag.3 change the readings of my ohmmeter ?".
My logic and experience answered me: "not if I measure blue-to blue ends and not if I measure red-to-red ends and not if I measure blue-to-red ends".

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 02:30:54

Never said winding blue is shorted to winding red.

That's right. You also did not qualify which terminals the word "shorted" referred to.
For me the device in Diag.3 is a block that has only 2-terminals, hence 2 ways to place 1 short. For you it has 4-terminals, so 6 ways to place 1 short.

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 02:30:54

but as in fig 3, the blue is shorted at the ends and the red is shorted at the ends.

...and to me these are internal connections that do not even show up on the block diagram, which is the way I think.

OK, now that you have clarified what you meant, I can answer your prior question in the next post...

Magluvin

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #869 on: 2026-06-27, 03:47:30 »

Group: Mad Scientist
Hero Member

Posts: 1241

now i pose this to you. did your pic of the 2 bifi coils in that post not have labels below each of the 2 bifilar coils when you originally posted it, and now there are no labels?

shall i provide a screenshot? better yet, did anyone here see that there 'was labels below each of the 2 bifilar coils, and now there are not?

i was trying. i was trying really hard to have a reasonable discussion with you. but here we go again. you edited that post with the 2 bifi coils.

MAGLUVIN

Verpies

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #870 on: 2026-06-27, 03:55:32 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4856

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 03:47:30

now i pose this to you. did your pic of the 2 bifi coils in that post not have labels below each of the 2 bifilar coils when you originally posted it, and now there are no labels?

Yes there were and still are but their order is incidental.
I consider the device on the left "shorted" and the one on the right "not shorted" ...and you consider them both "shorted". I got the message and adjusted for it in my communication with you.

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 03:47:30

you edited that post with the 2 bifi coils.

Yes, I edited it 8 times but before you replied. I edit all of my posts until they are perfect and I do not see a problem in it. I do however see a problem with leaving bad grammar, spelling, punctuation, indentation, vocabulary, math, links, especially if they hamper understanding or convey the wrong ideas.

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 03:47:30

shall i provide a screenshot?

Yes.

Verpies

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #871 on: 2026-06-27, 04:20:30 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member

Posts: 4856

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 00:37:07

Can we agree that by the looks of it, inducing the 2 shorted bifi windings cannot, or say should not, induce a voltage difference between the capacitor terminals? If we cannot agree, where does the exchange of electrons from one plate (winding) to the other in order to even

No, we cannot agree on that.

Subjecting the device depicted in Diag.3 to the magnetic flux that moves like this, induces an electric potential difference between the device's two terminals (i.o.w: a voltmeter connected to these terminals will read non-zero DC).

This potential difference is caused by the polarization of bound charges in the dielectric, metal-electron redistribution and the transport of unbound electrons and ions between the plates/wires of the capacitor (in air or the dielectric). Precharging the capacitor to a high voltage before/during the magnetic induction will ionize the air between the plates/wires and increase the unbound charge transport between the plates. Subjecting the space between the plates/wires to a radioactive source will have a similar effect.
Some of these have a permanent effect on the charge of the capacitor and some do not.

Note: I edited this post 11 times already - deal with it.

Magluvin	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #872 on: 2026-06-27, 04:28:11 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 1241	i tried, as i said. from now on, post as you will. i will not comment or reply to you directly. im done with you. mags

Verpies	Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #873 on: 2026-06-27, 04:33:57 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4856	Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 04:28:11 i tried, ... All you tried is to harp on insignificant issues and skirt the important ones (e.g.: #871). Just petty... Quote from: Magluvin on 2026-06-27, 04:28:11 im done with you. Is your position so weak that it cannot withstand a debate ?

Centraflow

Re: What is Known about the TPU « Reply #874 on: 2026-06-27, 07:53:08 »

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member

Posts: 3965

The core is 2 bifilar coils and like coils shorted. It is at a first glance A CAPACITOR. At a second glance, when another AC coil is wound over the top, the core is two shorted coils of an air coil transformer, no magnetic core.

At a third glance it is two shorted loops which will have a huge circulating current passing through them when the overwound coil is passing AC.

Fourthly, the overwound coil will act as a third capacitive plate to the bifilar core capacitor, that is 3 plates that are all capacitively COUPLED.

FROM MY PHONE, may correct typos later.

---------------------------

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.