What Are We Missing Here ?

[Grumpy]

If you trace out the movement of the conduction electrons moving along the conductor they follow a spiral path through space. 

Why?

[TinMan]

Why?

Hard to understand how they know what interaction the electron has with the magnetic field,when they dont know what the magnetic field-or force is.

There could be so much more going on than we know-->what are we missing here?.I'll tell you what we're missing here--the ability to think for our selves.  Where also missing the funding we should be getting for our research. For example-those well funded people at the likes of MIT,and those that came up with there useless magnetic field diode--the one with the two coils inside the U shaped rotating copper drum. These !so called! experts seem to have no idea as to why they are seeing this magnetic field diode effect--and they get paid to know what there doing .

Sometimes i am at a loss as to how some of these !expert's! made it past highschool--most of us could achieve better in our self funded workshops.

Brad

[Smudge]

Why?

Because they are moving along the conductor parallel to the x axis while at the same time that conductor is translating in a circular motion around that x axis.
Smudge

[Smudge]

Hard to understand how they know what interaction the electron has with the magnetic field,when they dont know what the magnetic field-or force is.

But we do know a lot about what creates that field (moving charge) and that there is a connection with the electric field from the moving charge that somehow brings in the factor v/c, so relativity is involved.  They also don't know  what the electric field is.  I have my own views on this that involves "empty" space being full of particles like neutrinos arriving at velocity c from all directions where matter particles continually absorb and emit those neutrinos.  At both absorption and emission the matter particle gets a force impulse.  All forces such as gravity, inertia, electric and magnetic come from these interactions with those neutrinos.
Smudge

[muDped]

It is a topic of considerable research.

A very interesting brief article about a surprising new discovery.

[giantkiller]

Well now:

Electrons are swirling around a common centre similar to air molecules in a tornado.

Same above as below. Why should it be any different? Look at this from the opposite side of the farm and one can see the swirling in the tornado is due to a magnetic swirl.

And they produced this with a helical antenna. Well, well, well, well, well... Who would have thunk it?

[Grumpy]

Because they are moving along the conductor parallel to the x axis while at the same time that conductor is translating in a circular motion around that x axis.
Smudge

Electric current was known to spiral along a wire back in the mod 1800's.  I have not been able to find the origin of this observation, but I did find a reference around 1846 that mentions this spiral motion:

Page 124, second paragraph:
https://books.google.com/books?id=FRZAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=current+spiral+motion+wire&source=bl&ots=-QvS30ntxi&sig=ACfU3U3xbC-FCynrI32APVQoVy8M4iO-lA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDg-jZ7-fjAhWHnp4KHdzLDdIQ6AEwH3oECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=current%20spiral%20motion%20wire&f=false

Based on the date, I doubt translation of the conductor was a factor.
Back in these days, there was a lot of discussion about whether electric current was one fluid or two.
In paragraph 3, the author provides their explanation of why the current spirals along the wire.  He attributes this to the mechanical forces present, which are orthogonal, one axial, and the other radial.  I'll assume the wire in question was connected to a battery.

It would seem that the translation of the wire in the generator provides the same forces that cause the current to spiral around the wire.

[Smudge]

Electric current was known to spiral along a wire back in the mod 1800's.  I have not been able to find the origin of this observation, but I did find a reference around 1846 that mentions this spiral motion:

Page 124, second paragraph:
https://books.google.com/books?id=FRZAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=current+spiral+motion+wire&source=bl&ots=-QvS30ntxi&sig=ACfU3U3xbC-FCynrI32APVQoVy8M4iO-lA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDg-jZ7-fjAhWHnp4KHdzLDdIQ6AEwH3oECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=current%20spiral%20motion%20wire&f=false

Based on the date, I doubt translation of the conductor was a factor.
Back in these days, there was a lot of discussion about whether electric current was one fluid or two.
In paragraph 3, the author provides their explanation of why the current spirals along the wire.  He attributes this to the mechanical forces present, which are orthogonal, one axial, and the other radial.  I'll assume the wire in question was connected to a battery.

It would seem that the translation of the wire in the generator provides the same forces that cause the current to spiral around the wire.

Interesting that they called this "fluid" pyrogen?  Current flowing in a wire will create a circular magnetic field around it and within it.  Inductance comes from both the external and internal fields.  In thin Cu wire (thin compared to the length) the internal field creates negligible inductance, but in Fe wire that internal field often cannot be ignored.  And the internal field will create the radial force necessary for the electrons to spiral.  But electrons spiraling inside the wire is not the same as electrons moving axially while the wire translates in a circle.  Different spirals.
Smudge 

[TinMan]

I would like you all to think about this--and think hard.

Those who are into welding-e.g,arc and tig,would have seen this for them self.

When arc welding with S/S rod's,you have to use a positive ground.
Doing this shows no problem at all.
!But!,if you swap the polarity around to a negative ground,and while maintaining the same current,you will note that the S/S welding rod will glow red hot. The only way the rod can glow red hot is if more current is flowing through it-->but we never change the current value on the welder 

The same applies to DC tig welding,where(depending on what kind of steel you are welding)inverting the polarities around will also result in your tungsten tip glowing red hot-->why?

From what i was told by those well versed in the welding game,the cause for the rods getting red hot when using the wrong polarity is due to electrons being drawn from the material being welded,and flowing into the welding rod,where as the right polarity the electrons flow from the rod and into the material being welded.

There is also video's on youtube showing power meters running backwards when arc welding.

I only point this out as it would seem that a higher current can be delivered to the welding rod from the material being welded than the welder it self is delivering to the material being welded-->when the polarity of the welder is set incorrect for that material. Why else would the rod get red hot in one polarity and not in the other,when the !apparent! current flow is the same?

Is there some way we can draw the electrons out of a material in a similar manor,but at much less power levels than those used in welding ?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcPKz7uEq-8


Brad

[poynt99]

The current would be the same in both cases, regardless if one causes the welding rod to glow and the other not.

It is to do with electron migration. Look into sacrificial anodes and cathodic protection. It is about electron migration, and in the cases of cathodic protection, it is about reversing the process so that the sacrificial element degrades, not the structure that is to be protected.

With welding and the huge currents involved, this process would be magnified and accelerated, and when performed with the wrong polarity, manifests in the phenomenon you described. It may be that the resistivity of the rod increases as it acquires more electrons, not sure. Someone with a physics or chemistry background can probably explain it.

[ion]

Brad said:

Is there some way we can draw the electrons out of a material in a similar manor, but at much less power levels than those used in welding ?.

This is explained with electrostatic cooling. Cup your hand and hold it near the positive  of a HV supply and you will feel you palm getting colder (be careful)

Heat a metal plate to red hot then bring a pos HV electrode close to the metal surface, a dark cool spot will appear.

This is an interesting effect worthy of exploration, and also is found in "cold cathode" vacuum tubes and some new experimental refrigeration systems.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19770005386

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjspe1933/42/495/42_495_286/_article

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1975PhDT........63H

Regards

[TinMan]

Just going to throw this in here for Chet.

I found that system developed by CSIRO Australia i was talking about the other night on the phone.
It is called BlueGen.

https://www.solidpower.com/en/bluegen/

Quote: BlueGEN is powered by the fully integrated fuel cell module, which, by using solid oxide ceramic fuel cells, ranks among the most efficient energy conversion systems currently available on the market. The waste heat of BlueGEN produced by the process of generating electricity can optionally be used to heat water. About the size of a washing machine, BlueGEN can be installed right there where the electricity is needed. Natural gas or biomethane is used as the source of energy.The system supplies around 13,000 kWh (kilowatt hours) of low-emission electricity per year and thus can meet your electricity needs either completely or in part. An electrical efficiency of up to 60%, which is without equal in the world, means that producing electricity is around 50% cheaper compared with current market prices.The excess heat produced during the energy conversion process can then be used to heat both water and home. This brings the total efficiency of the system up into the 90% range.



Brad

[Chet K]

Thx Brad
Will read when I get my PC
Back online later

[Peterae]

They are stopping the use of gas in the UK soon, everyone will need to move to electric heating as gas boilers as we call them are fazed out in the next 5 years, this device probably explains why LOL

[Itsu]

Same here in The Netherlands, but the 5 year period is already stretched to 2030 due to protests.

Many people however are already switching to heatpumps or other no gas heating appliances.

Due to my 6kW solarsystem, i already am cooking on induction which is great and recently we installed
2 infrared heating panels (1kW and 700W) in the livingroom for heating.

This reduced my gas intake in half, but due to the late start (februari this year) i expect it to be
even more reduced to a total of 1/3th.

This means from about 1400M³ gas to 450M³ (1M³ costs about 0.90€) per year.

Itsu

[Grumage]

Perhaps the thread title has some relevance to the latest posts?

" What are we missing here? "

Here in the UK we have a grid network of gas mains covering almost the whole of the mainland. Are our governments sitting on some " new " electricity generation methods that can suddenly replace the gas infrastructure?

It makes me wonder?

Itsu, I'd like to talk to you about " induction cooking " sometime.

Cheers Graham.

[evolvingape]

https://www.igu.org/natural-gas-efficient

A nice little pictorial summary of what smells like a gigantic energy scam justified by "climate change" mind control conditioning..

Electricity is charged at 4 times more expensive per unit heat delivered to the customer...