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img  the_big_m_in_ok
Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « on: 2011-04-29, 21:39:34 »
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NOTE: By 'radiant' energy, I mean OU from the environment via BEMF or aetheric influences, if there are any.

Okay everyone,
I'm currently running a simple, low budget experiment involving driving a motor from a 6 VDC Radio Shack battery, have the pulsating DC, in series (this is important) go through the primary of three(3) ea. 1:1 toroid transformers, and then the secondaries, in series, will charge up or otherwise maintain a trickle charge on three batteries, one of the batteries being the powering battery that runs the motor.  For a load on the secondaries--and another current limiter
---I'm using 2ea. 12VDC incandescent bulbs, in series with the series coils (in series, decoupled from the motor.)  The motor itself is a current limiter.
    (Why is it important to keep the batteries in series with the current limiter?  Putting the batteries parallel with the motor and current is also a 0-.01 ohm short on the batteries through the motor.  SPARKS, to say the least.  The current limiter is there for a reason.)

Since the motor is a 12VDC computer cooling fan about 3 1/2" in dia, and I'm running it on 6 volts, it admittedly runs slow.  It has a blue LED that does glow with good brightness on 6 volts.  When the LED goes out, the test is over.  There are 4 batteries,  3 in series with the output secondaries, and the run battery inductively coupled, but electrically isolated, from the others.

I'll see how long the batteries last before changing the setup to reflect any different conditions.  I carefully looked at the motor with and without the secondaries loaded by opening the load circuit.  I thought I could see the motor run faster with the load connected.  If it ran faster, though, it wasn't much faster.  I'll see how long the batteries last with that light electrical load.

If I have more time later, I'll try and draw an ascii schematic of the circuit.  (I can't upload anything from a borrowed computer like this one.)



If any Member has questions or comments, go ahead and upload them.  I'm running out of time on this computer right now.  I'll append to this post later with results as I have them.

--Lee


Reedit, 23 Jun '11:  Added descriptive 'NOTE' to the beginning of this post.
Reedit, 19 Nov 11:  Corrected spelling & moved this text to bottom of pg.
« Last Edit: 2013-05-30, 19:41:20 by the_big_m_in_ok »
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #1 on: 2011-04-30, 03:29:28 »
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Posts: 2996
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2011-04-29, 21:39:34
Okay everyone,
I'm currently running a simple, low budget experiment involving driving a motor from a 6 VDC Radio Shack battery, have the pulsating DC, in series (this is important) go through the primary of three(3) ea. 1:1 toroid transformers, and then the secondaries, in series, will charge up or otherwise maintain a trickle charge on three batteries, one of the batteries being the powering battery that runs the motor.  For a load on the secondaries--and another current limiter---I'm using 2ea. 12VDC incandescent bulbs, in series with the sreies coils (all in series decoupled from the motor.)  The motor itself is a current limiter.
    (Why is it important to keep the batteries in series with the current limiter?  Putting the batteries parallel with the motor and current is also a 0-.01 ohm short on the batteries through the motor.  SPARKS, to say the least.  The current limiter is there for a reason.)

Since the motor is a 12VDC computer cooling fan about 3 1/2" in dia, and I'm running it on 6 volts, it admittedly runs slow.  It has a blue LED that does glow with good brightness on 6 volts.  When the LED goes out, the test is over.  There are 4 batteries,  3 in series with the output secondaries, and the run battery inductively coupled, but electrically isolated, from the others.

I'll see how long the batteries last before changing the setup to reflect any different conditions.  I carefully looked at the motor with and without the secondaries loaded by opening the load circuit.  I thought I could see the motor run faster with the load connected.  If it ran faster, though, it wasn't much faster.  I'll see how long the batteries last with that light electrical load.

If I have more time later, I'll try and draw an ascii schematic of the circuit.  (I can't upload anything from a borrowed computer like this one.)

If any Member has questions or comments, go ahead and upload them.  I'm running out of time on this computer right now.  I'll append to this post later with results as I have them.

--Lee


 

It would help immensely if you would provide a schematic of the circuit. 
I also look forward to your results, thanks.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #2 on: 2011-04-30, 04:51:36 »
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PhysicsProf,

This place is closing in 10 minutes, but I'll see what I can do later.  VERY BUSY schedule!  

It'll have to be in qwerty ascii, though.   I'll do what I can.

Okay, here goes; Version #1:

                              6V Battery                                3ea. 6V Batteries

                                  |   |                                |   |              |    |         |    |
                                  |   |                                |   |              |    |         |    |
             x_______| | | |______      _______| | | |______| | | |____| | | |___Lamp--------Lamp------
                    |         | | | |          )||||(   |         | | | |            | | | |        | | | |                                          |
                    |           |    |          )||||(  |            |    |              |   |          |   |                                          |
                    |           |    |         )||||(  |             |    |              |   |          |   |                                          |
                 Motor                       )||||(  |                                                                                              |
                    |                           )||||(  |                                                                                             |                
                    |______________)||||) |                                                                                             |
                                                         |                                                                                           |
                                                        |                                                                                            |
             x____________________|                                                                                               |
             |           |                       )|||(                                                                                               |
             |           |                       )|||(                                                                                                |
             |           |                       )|||(                                                                                                |
             |          |                        )|||(                                                                                            |
             |          x ___________)|||(                                                                                               |
             |          |                             |                                                                                             |
             |          |                             |                                                                                             |
             x____  | ___________)|||(                                                                                               |
             |          |                        )|||(                                                                                            |
             |          |                        )|||(                                                                                            |
             |          |                        )|||(                                                                                            |
             |          |                        )|||(                                                                                            |
             |          x ___________)|||(                                                                                               |
             |           |                           |                                                                                            |
             |           |                           |                                                                                            |
             x____  | ___________)|||(                                                                                           |
                         |                      )|||(                                                                                           |
                         |                      )|||(                                                                                             |
                         |                      )|||(                                                                                            |
                         |                      )|||(                                                                                            |
                         x_______ ___)|||(_______________________________________________|


Well, I'm going to try and come back to this later.  Page processing between the edit page and publicly viewable pages is WAY different.
Bottom line:
The 12V lamps are in series with three 6V batteries.  The 12V motor (same as "Thunderblades"  blue LED case fan, Radio Shack #28-1101), is by itself on its own 6V battery, running rather slowly.  The lamps are experiencing 9V each, and they drained the charged batteries in about 15 hrs.  The fan was still going as of today, 30 Apr. at noon, for =>36 hrs, but it's kinda small and doesn't draw but milliWatts.  It's slowing down, too, though.
REEDIT:
I ended the test when I found another schematic:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1868.15,  Reply #16,  pg. 2

My next test will have a simpler schematic.

--Lee
« Last Edit: 2011-05-02, 20:52:08 by the_big_m_in_ok »
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #3 on: 2011-05-02, 20:51:31 »
Group: Guest
Quote
FIRST TEST RESULTS:
There's no continuity in the secondary coil, it having 3 twisted-together connections to arrange the whole thing in a diamond shape.
What I'll do next is wind a single layer primary on a non-conductive paper roll core about 18" long.  I may tape two together and wind one wire onto the whole length.  The secondary can be placed inside the larger, outer one.  If necessary, steel  bolts can be inserted into the smaller core for as an 'iron core'.
Conclusive results:
I wound a full roll of Radio Shack solid 24ga. speaker wire; insulation split in half to double the length, onto two paper rolls, taped and reinforced together with balsa wood shims, that used to have kitchen paper towels on them.  The diameter was the same as a roll of toilet paper.  The length was 28" for the whole thing.  I figured at 1/16" diameter (measured) for the wire, so that the main coil was ~330 turns.  At the end with room to wind more wire, I wound two coils with 30-33 turns each, so that the leads could be reversed for a counterwound "Joule Thief" affair, if need be.  Primary and secondary coils are all touching.  All coils had continunity with a set of batteries and a DC light bulb.
RESULTS:
Using the same 12VDC computer case fan as before on the secondary (small) coils, and the same paralleled light bulbs as before on the one large coil to step-up 10:1 with 'pulsating' DC from the motor; with a set of 6VDC 'AA' batteries in a battery holder that actually runs the motor:

6V, with no steel bolts in the center of the roll as a 'transformer', gives no reaction from the paralleled bulbs.
12V, is the same thing.
12V, with about a pound of small diameter steel threaded bolts shoved into both ends, gives no light from the bulbs.
12V with the leads of the primary reversed from their starting orientation gave no results, either.

After that, I gave up.

CONCLUSION:
Even with electrically sound coils, the power from my computer case fan won't give enough strongly variable pulsating DC to affect the transformer I built in order to step-up voltage.

NEXT EXPERIMENT:
Use a 12V Zener to harvest the BEMF on a transformer secondary to recharge a battery out of a set on the other side of the core (a toroid would be ideal).  I'll have to draw the circuit in acsii again, so bear with me.

--Lee
« Last Edit: 2011-05-18, 18:08:19 by the_big_m_in_ok »
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #4 on: 2011-06-14, 22:31:29 »
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In conjunction with Reply #3,  I present this reference site from the 'Web:

http://energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4622-switching-coil-spark-gap-make-radiant.html
(look at the bottom drawing on Reply #9, by sucahyo, pg. 1)
    The last drawing of the post is the most pertinent.  I have in mind a design that uses one(1) set of battery holders that adds up to, say, 36 to 48 volts.  One of these sets can power the circuit.  Some effort will be required by me to draw a qwerty acsii diagram, but I suppose I can try later.


This is about as good as descriptive material gets:
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Tesla's%20HV%20impulse%20lighting%20methods-Imhotep's%20Radiant%20Oscillator.pdf
(These are Imhotep's radiant's energy schematics involving relays to create A/C from a battery or other means of genetating the coil drive power.)

There's something else:
The CFL screw-in bulb was originally designed to have a small power correction factor.  (1ea. 13-Watt CFL bulb requires the power to be able to shine, but takes 28 Watts to power it and then that makes the corrective power ratio about .4 to .55.   


--Lee

Reedit, 15 Jun '11:  Added further description to www.energeticforum reference site.
Reedit,   6 July '11:  Added 'Web site being run by one manager involving the Imhotep.  Useful schematics.  Also, added the assertion that CFL's don't save as much power as they're supposed to.
« Last Edit: 2011-07-07, 00:09:34 by the_big_m_in_ok »
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #5 on: 2013-05-28, 21:59:08 »
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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2011-04-30, 03:29:28
It would help immensely if you would provide a schematic of the circuit.  
I also look forward to your results, thanks.
      I'll see what I can do for you:
I can go downtown to the public library and render hand drawn schematics to .PDFs and then try and upload them to a  FREE hosting site for you to look at and download hard copy print-offs if you like.   I get paid on the 3rd, 6/3/13, so I can start then.
       I had the idea of taking a Tesla coil and operating it in reverse:  The output coil becomes a long wire, the spark gap becomes a fluorescent tube that 'sparks' when voltage rises high enough on the HV storage capacitor.   The input becomes a battery that stores power collected.
       I'll try and draw up this envisioned design shortly.
Later Reedit:
Here, take a look at this...
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/capacitorcharger.htm
       ...This is a well known drawing for a long wire coupled ambient power collector.   I was thinking of replacing the spark plug/gap with a lower voltage fluorescent tube that'll do the same thing.   more voltage can mean tubes in series and the tube(s) can be current limiter(s).

--Lee
« Last Edit: 2013-05-29, 02:32:05 by the_big_m_in_ok »
   
img  muDped
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #6 on: 2013-05-29, 07:12:10 »

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Posts: 3055
Your link to the long wire battery charger
brings up an interesting page.  Electrical
power can be produced with such a setup
although the battery charging end of the
circuit could be much improved.

Model A coils were 6 Volt.


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  ion
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #7 on: 2013-05-29, 16:32:02 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Regarding the link:

Couple of problems:

1) the schematic does not agree with the description, The high voltage pulse from the spark plug needs to go to the center (HV) of the ignition coil in order to "downconvert" the high voltage, low current to low voltage, high current suitable to charge the battery (this is impedance matching)

2) a rectifier is needed on the secondary or all you will have is an oscillatory (AC) waveform applied to the battery. While this will help desulphate the battery, it will not charge it unless a rectifier is used.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #8 on: 2013-05-29, 19:23:53 »
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Quote from: ION on 2013-05-29, 16:32:02
Regarding the link:

Couple of problems:

1) the schematic does not agree with the description, The high voltage pulse from the spark plug needs to go to the center (HV) of the ignition coil in order to "downconvert" the high voltage, low current to low voltage, high current suitable to charge the battery (this is impedance matching)
       Hmmmm.   That's a point.   I was looking for a 'quick and easy' schematic to upload and I didn't check the accuracy of the drawing.   But you're right.   I'll see if I can draw a better schematic and go downtown to convert it to a .PDF(easiest way for me to do it) and then upload it to this site's IP server's hard drive, if possible.
Quote
2) a rectifier is needed on the secondary or all you will have is an oscillatory (AC) waveform applied to the battery. While this will help desulphate the battery, it will not charge it unless a rectifier is used.
       The capacitor could go between points 'C' and 'D', could it not?   You just need high voltage cap(s).   Another problem?   I'll add that to the drawing.

--Lee
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #9 on: 2013-05-29, 19:54:01 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Dumped on 2013-05-29, 07:12:10
Your link to the long wire battery charger
brings up an interesting page.  Electrical
power can be produced with such a setup
although the battery charging end of the
circuit could be much improved.
       Indeed, Dumped.   However, the schematic is incorrectly drawn, as is.   The charging end would be better in my soon-to-be uploaded drawing.
Quote
Model A coils were 6 Volt.
       Golf cart batteries are still 6 volts, aren't they?   Bigger plates and more current for the motor, I think.

--Lee
   
img  muDped
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #10 on: 2013-05-29, 20:31:47 »

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Posts: 3055
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok
Golf cart batteries are still 6 volts, aren't they?   Bigger plates and more current for the motor, I think.

Six Volts is good.  My '49 Chevrolet, '51 Ford and
'53 Ford were all Six Volts.  Got my first 12 Volt
automobile in '65 while in Japan - a Hino Contessa.

The author of the article thought Model A coils
were 12 Volt, perhaps not realizing that back then
6 Volts was the standard.


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #11 on: 2013-05-29, 21:49:59 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Dumped on 2013-05-29, 20:31:47
Six Volts is good.  My '49 Chevrolet, '51 Ford and
'53 Ford were all Six Volts.  Got my first 12 Volt
automobile in '65 while in Japan - a Hino Contessa.
      Never heard of the last one---a Japanese car, though.   Were the cars as good then as they are now?
Quote
The author of the article thought Model A coils
were 12 Volt, perhaps not realizing that back then
6 Volts was the standard.
      Yeah, I know.   I didn't ever know what voltages the old-fashioned spark gap Morse code batteries were in.   I do know Edison
invented the technology.   Even when the batteries went dry of electrolyte, they worked just as well as with the electrolyte.   Honest, they did.   I can't recall exactly why, since I read the article years ago.

To stay on topic, my initial medium/high voltage experiments will start with a backwards power transformer input voltage of 1100 to 1200 volts to a 'spark gap' of a fluorescent tube.   For what I want to do, I know they should work in theory----my theory.   I'll be using 5ea.--6ea. .4A, 12VAC transformers, in series.   I'll proceed from there.

--Lee
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #12 on: 2013-06-09, 23:04:39 »
Group: Guest
 
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2013-05-29, 19:23:53
 "The capacitor could go between points 'C' and 'D', could it not?   You just need high voltage cap(s).   Another problem?   I'll add that to the drawing."
       It'll be awhile until I get downtown to the main public library to render any drawing to a .PDF, so I'll try and see if I can draw it in ascii?   Will return later to begin.

--Lee
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Electrical self-recharge a battery with radiant energy...plus tests... « Reply #13 on: 2013-06-09, 23:31:54 »
Group: Guest
Concerning my posted Reply #5 on this thread, here's an Internet drawing that's getting some attention in Internet circles:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=tesla+imhotep+radiant+charger&biw=738&bih=307&tbm=isch&tbnid=_jFfVktWupFRoM:&imgrefurl=http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/9589-tesla-imhotep-radiant-energy-circuit.html&docid=3fd8GySA_157MM&imgurl=http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h404/soundiceuk/Tesla/TeslaImhotepRadiantOscillator.jpg&w=350&h=640&ei=HgC1UcqSIoK1iwKBl4D4CQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=138&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=80&start=0&ndsp=4&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:83&tx=54&ty=105

       This was a basic schematic that I saw as the basis for a more advanced power collection circuit.
The idea is:  Use the fluorescent tube as a spark gap when the voltage across the cap(s) is great enough to actually 'spark' a short circuit through the tube.   This method should produce less radio interference than a regular spark gap and also uses less voltage if only one tube is used.   Several tubes can be wired in series for more voltage, as desired.
       In the particular drawing referred to above, no transformer is shown to potentially allow the harvesting of CEMF/BEMF.   The drawing's author didn't design the circuit for that, obviously.   I have an envisioned drawing which I can try to attempt describing what I mean:

              \/
               |
               |
               |
               +_____________
          ( || )          |           _|_
          ( || )          |           |  |
          ( || )          |           |  |
  ____( || )          |           |  |
          ( || )        _|_         |  |
          ( || )        ___        |  |
  ____( || )          |           |  |
          ( || )          |           |  |    
          ( || )          |           |  |
          ( || )          |            |
          ( || )_____|______|
                +
                |__  
                 ___|___
                   ____
                      _

Later reedit:
       I've demonstrated by drawing, that the left-hand side of the drawing steps down, say, 1200 VAC to 120 VAC and then 12 VAC to connect to a diode and a battery bank.   Or, as an alternative, the two lines can go straight to a battery or battery bank, as such.

I might be able to get away with this kind of 'spark gap', since there's a commercial or gov't radio facility on a mountaintop about two miles south of where I live.   There are also TV's and radios where I live in my neighborhood, as well.   Spark gap interference will play hell with their reception.   A fluorescent tube can also be covered with aluminum foil that's been grounded---and that'll fix the problem, for sure. 

--Lee

Reedit, 11 Jun '13:   Cleaned up ascii drawing and added final explanatory text to this post.
« Last Edit: 2013-06-13, 22:27:12 by the_big_m_in_ok »
   
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