Carbon Dioxide Capture energy cycle ideas

[Peterae]

Just trying to think this through as an idea.

We know that if we blow through a straw into a solution of Calcium Hydroxide we capture the carbon dioxide chemically as Calcium Carbonate.

If we use an acid or heat the Calcium Carbonate we release the stored Carbon Dioxide.

We also know that other hydroxides also do this Potassium, Sodium and Lithium hydroxides, in fact Lithium is used in the space industry for removal of carbon dioxide, but is too expensive here.

I am wondering that if we applied something like Sulphuric acid to potassium Carbonate then we would produce potassium sulphate and Carbon Dioxide gas, in a closed vessel the carbon dioxide would become pressurised, we now have our chemical energy transferred to gas pressure which could be used to drive a turbine or piston generator.

Now to chemically close the cycle, this is the best I have come up with so far.

The process
1)Obtain potassium hydroxide
---------------------
2)Bubble air through potassium hydroxide (using a small wind pointing duct.
To form potassium carbonate (Carbon Dioxide Capture)
---------------------
3)Add sulphuric acid to potassium carbonate
To release carbon dioxide (pressurize and store for energy generation)
And form potassium sulphate (Once Carbon dioxide is released it can be fed back into the system for re capture in 1 to increase efficiency)
----------------------
4)Electrolyse potassium sulphate using copper electrode
To form copper sulphate & potassium hydroxide (re use in 2) needs a cation membrane.
----------------------
5)Electrolyse copper sulphate to form sulphuric acid
And copper
Dry copper and form compressed electrode for reuse in 4
Re use sulphuric acid above in 3

[Peterae]

OK it looks like it is possible to forget steps 4 & 5 and combine them using a cation membrane and electrolyse potassium sulphate and directly convert to potassium hydroxide and sulphuric acid.

So we now have a closed cycle for Solar energy storage.

Off course energy efficiency I have not yet been able to calculate.

So 1 mole of Potassium Hydroxide weights 56grams and will absorb 1 mole of Carbon Dioxide or 24 Litres of Carbon Dioxide.

So 1kg of Potassium Hydroxide will absorb 428 Litres of Carbon Dioxide at 25 Deg C and 1 Atmosphere pressure.

[forest]

I think we should avoid chemical compounds. There should be some method to break carbon dioxide back to carbon and oxygen

[Chet K]

IMO
all options should be on the table for energy storage and power generation from Solar arrays
the UK is supporting  Fracking due to domestic energy needs there.

it would be nice to have other options.


Nothin but gratitude here ,and definitely paying attention .

[Peterae]

Well it would be a closed cycle system just like any battery system I suppose, but there are questions like what can be done with pressurised Carbon Dioxide, what sort of pressure can be obtained by adding sulphuric acid to potassium carbonate etc.

[Peterae]

Here's another process for oxygen & hydrogen

1) add zinc metal to sulphuric acid releasing hydrogen gas and Zinc Sulphate, could probably extract electrical energy from this as the zinc reacts as well.
2) electrolyse the zinc sulphate to form Zinc metal, Oxygen at the anode and sulphuric acid
3) use hydrogen from 1 and oxygen from 2 to heat water or run an ICE

OR more Hydrogen
1) electrolyse copper in sulphuric acid to form copper sulphate and Hydrogen gas
2) add zinc metal to form copper metal and zinc sulphate releasing heat and hydrogen gas
3)electrolyse zinc sulphate to form oxygen at anode, zinc metal and sulphuric acid reuse zinc in 2, reuse sulphuric acid in 1, burn oxygen with hydrogen in 1 & 2

[Peterae]

OR even more free Hydrogen
1) electrolyse copper in sulphuric acid to form copper sulphate and Hydrogen gas
2) add iron metal to form copper metal and iron sulphate releasing heat and hydrogen gas reuse copper in 1, produce electrical energy
3) add zinc metal to form iron metal and zinc sulphate releasing heat and hydrogen gas reuse iron in 2, produce electrical energy
4)electrolyse zinc sulphate to form oxygen at anode, zinc metal and sulphuric acid reuse zinc in3, reuse sulphuric acid in 1, burn oxygen with hydrogen in 1 & 2 & 3

[Peterae]

I think we should avoid chemical compounds. There should be some method to break carbon dioxide back to carbon and oxygen

OK here's one for you

1) Burn Magnesium in carbon dioxide you get carbon formed and magnesium oxide. Carbon can be stored, the heat used to melt the Magnesium Oxide for step 2
2) Electrolysis of molten Magnesium Oxide forms magnesium metal and oxygen, oxygen can be stored for future use

Interestingly if the magnesium is burnt in air we get a mixture of different things because air is 71% nitrogen and 21% oxygen, so if we burn in air we get a mixture of Magnesium Nitrite and Magnesium Oxide, if we add water to this mixture we get a mixture of Magnesium Hydroxide, Magnesium Oxide and Ammonia Gas.

[evolvingape]

ooo.. that sounds like fun! 

https://io9.gizmodo.com/5706535/the-story-of-einsteins-refrigerator

The Einstein-Szilard fridge exploited this effect, using just pressurized ammonia, butane and water, with no need for electricity to operate the appliance ...

[Peterae]

Ammonia is nasty stuff, but has many uses.
Regarding refrigerators I had one in my old 1970's VW camper van, it used a small 12v heating element or a propane pilot light for energy.
It looks like I found a picture of it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator#/media/File:Absorption_fridge.jpg

[Peterae]

If a measured amount of magnesium was mixed with just the required amount of air, the magnesium would use up the oxygen, the nitrogen and the carbon dioxide, leaving Argon, a vacuum and the reacted chemicals, magnesium oxide, magnesium nitrite, some carbon.

[Centraflow]

Peter,
put some aluminium kitchen foil in a solution of sodium hydroxide, you will get a reaction of the water releases oxygen which oxidises the aluminium and lots of hydrogen given off from what is left of the water. Left with H2+AlO2, the AlO2 can be turned back into Al again (but need power to do that, or do you!!! aluminium battery anyone! it is possible on paper, in practice maybe).

Regards

Mike

[muDped]

...aluminium battery anyone! it is possible on paper, in practice maybe). 

It is possible. 

[Peterae]

Interesting
Thanks for the heads up, I will look into it.

[evolvingape]

This thread is peaking my interest!

There are a lot of possibilities here, so many in fact that it is hard to sum them up neatly.

We are certainly looking at the potential to brainstorm systems and process knowledge to build new types of input output machines.

Some examples would be:

The ability to create a vacuum (negative relative system pressure low pump side) if a reversible process, could become a fluid (liquid or gas or slurry) pump.

The ability to substitute SMD for the ionic membrane in a flow battery.

Temperature control of system fluids, so an output becomes an input to the next process. If insulated from environmental heat sink this type of system must become 100% thermally efficient.

The chemical manipulation phase transition aspect many of you are looking into, liquid fuel is an obvious output but many other useful liquids could be condensed (releasing heat as an output that becomes an input) from the gas created.

I have my own hhop hybrid which creates a hho flame as an output, therefore a lot of heat, especially with a solid catalyst.

Self sustaining colony.. ? Yeah, I think it's possible with a bit of work.

[Peterae]

glad of that

now creating a vacuum from a chemical process is one thing but if we can recycle the chemical result to produce a positive pressure by closing the chemical loop we have twice the power output, by using 1 piston to push and 1 piston to pull.

Also if we create a vacuum or pressure and allow air through a small orifice then we create a temperature differential, same as when we release a pressurized canister of carbon dioxide to form dry ice, it maybe possible to form a chemical fridge where a sustained chemical reaction is continuously forming a pressure or vacuum.

[evolvingape]

Before we examine the chemical potential I think it would help to understand and link the technological possibilities we already understand.

My personal example is the hhop hybrid, this has the potential to store gravitational potential in the form of a raised mass and also produce a gas to liquid flame combustion, radiating heat.

If we imagine we are trying to raise 1 liter of water through 20 meters, the equivalent of 30 psi of pressure, or 2 bar of pressure, or 2 atmospheres of pressure, we can store pressure in a gravitational battery.

We could also charge an accumulator with the same pressure spring potential and not have to raise it 20m!

As the pressure in the hho gas reservoir of the hybrid approaches atmospheric pressure equilisation it's output will decrease, and the flame will go out. A spark on this gas in the chamber will produce a pressure wave absorbed by the reservoir solid wall, a large heat energy, and a resultant relative vacuum to atmosphere. Why it's a hybrid.. it can still draw water and preheat water with the heat energy losses for use as an input to another system.

The hho flame can be used as the pilot light on the RC refrigerator, which means a solar panel could run your refrigeration and store water pressure for running a Dosatron to pump nutrients to your food supply. A second solar panel system could run your hydroponic lighting direct.

We should do all of this now, before the experimental stuff, because of this:

Bug Splatter On Your Car's Windshield Is A Treasure Trove Of Genomic Biodiversity

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091008172001.htm

Date: October 10, 2009

If you have ever taken a long road trip, the windshield of your car will inevitably be splattered with bugs by the time you arrive at your destination.

Study links insecticide use to invertebrate die-offs

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/may/01/study-links-insecticide-invertebrate-die-off

Wednesday 1 May 2013 22.00 BST

The world's most widely used insecticide is devastating dragonflies, snails and other water-based species, a groundbreaking Dutch study has revealed.

On Monday, the insecticide and two others were banned for two years from use on some crops across the European Union, due to the risk posed to bees and other pollinators, on which many food crops rely.

However, much tougher action in the form of a total worldwide ban is needed, according to the scientist who led the new study.

Where have all the insects gone?

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/where-have-all-insects-gone

May. 10, 2017 , 9:00 AM

Entomologists call it the windshield phenomenon. "If you talk to people, they have a gut feeling. They remember how insects used to smash on your windscreen," says Wolfgang Wägele, director of the Leibniz Institute for Animal Biodiversity in Bonn, Germany. Today, drivers spend less time scraping and scrubbing. "I'm a very data-driven person," says Scott Black, executive director of the Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation in Portland, Oregon. "But it is a visceral reaction when you realize you don't see that mess anymore."

We have the ability to provide for ourselves a system using known technology and solar energy input to feed ourselves. A dedicated team could have a prototype up and growing food in 3 months, maybe less.

If we do nothing in 3 - 5 years there is the potential for crop failure through lack of pollinators to place such an inflation pressure on staple food price, that mass civil unrest could result. This would ultimately spiral out of control into anarchy through starvation.. would be nice to have a cheap proven reliable mass producible option as a backup strategy.. 

This technology is also perfectly compatible with space habitation in a 1g air atmosphere environment.

[evolvingape]

Over here we were talking about the hybrids ability to process a heat source fuel (combustible gas) from common liquid water:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3553.msg65361;topicseen#msg65361

The heat energy released when hot steam gas condenses to liquid water could easily run your refrigeration, drinking water condensate 

A hhophouse habitable dome grows plants from solar power directly, solar panel output power can be re-purposed. A solar refrigerator could replace the hho flame water distillation refrigerator.

Solar Refrigeration: A Hot Idea for Cooling

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/solar-refrigeration/

How to build a solar refrigerator: The brighter the sun, the better it works

Fishermen in the village of Maruata, which is located on the Mexican Pacific coast 18 degrees north of the equator, have no electricity. But for the past 16 years they have been able to store their fish on ice: Seven ice makers, powered by nothing but the scorching sun, churn out a half ton of ice every day.

There's a global scramble to drive down emissions of carbon dioxide: the electricity to power just refrigerators in the U.S. contributes 102 million tons annually. Solar refrigeration can also be inexpensive and it would give the electric grid much-needed relief. Electricity demand peaks on hot summer days—150 gigawatts more in summer than winter in the U.S. (A gigawatt equals on billion watts.) That's almost 1.5 times the generating capacity of all the coal-fired power plants west of the Mississippi River. Further, solar is plentiful. The solar energy hitting 54 square feet (five square meters) of land each year is the equivalent of all the electricity used by one American household, according to data from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and Energy Information Administration, both part of the U.S. Department of Energy.

Making cold out of hot is easier than one might think. A group of students last year at San Jose State University built a solar-powered ice maker with $100 worth of plumbing and a four-by-eight-foot (1.2-by-2.4-meter) sheet of reflecting steel. No moving parts, no electricity but give it a couple hours of sunshine and it can make a large bag of ice.

[evolvingape]

4.3 Thermally driven heat pumps

https://hub.globalccsinstitute.com/publications/strategic-research-priorities-cross-cutting-technology/43-thermally-driven-heat-pumps

Thermally driven heat pumps use the same thermodynamic cycle as electrically driven compression heat pumps, however the compressor is replaced by a thermal sorption cycle. Therefore thermal energy is needed to drive the cycle and electricity is needed only for auxiliary components like pumps to circulate the working fluid. Thermally driven machines are mainly used for cooling purposes in combination with waste heat or heat produced by renewable sources. However, they can also work as heat pumps with high efficiency.

The most important representatives of heat-driven cooling/heat pump systems are absorption and adsorption closed-cycles.

Liquid absorption and solid adsorption cycles are based on a working pair of a refrigerant and a sorption medium. In absorption devices the refrigerant is absorbed, i.e. dissolved, in the liquid sorption medium changing its concentration. Most common working pairs are Lithium Bromide/Water and Ammonia/Water. In case of solid sorption heat pumps/chillers, the refrigerant is either adsorbed in the pores of the solid adsorption medium, or chemically absorbed into the crystal lattice of the solid. Most common adsorption working pairs are Zeolite/water, Silica Gel/water, Activated carbon/ammonia, and Activated carbon/methanol. Chemical absorption working pairs are mostly based on salt/ammonia or salt/water combinations.

Both liquid and solid sorption heat pump technologies are thermodynamically similar and have analogous basic configurations. This consists of four main components: a reactor called generator, where the sor-bent (liquid or solid) is heated at high temperature; the condenser, where the desorbed refrigerant vapour is condensed into liquid; the evaporator, where the cooling effect is produced; a reactor called ab/ adsorber that receives refrigerant vapour from the evaporator. In the case of liquid absorption machines, a pump is used to continuously circulate the concentrated solution from the absorber to the generator and the dilute solution back to the absorber. The two reactors of a solid adsorption machine operate in counter-phase to ensure continuous useful cooling effect and are alternatively heated for desorption and cooled for adsorption. Differently than an absorption machine, a circulation pump is not required.