Amazing ancient free energy source, Bill Mollison explains a Trompe

[Duncan]

Thanks for a great precis  evolvingape and in many ways a terrific system. with a lot of advantages over even the usual turbine systems we tend to use.
you stress the size of intake and out-take and for that reason I'm guessing this simply won't work on a small scale ?
By that I mean a much smaller diameter pipe whilst perhaps depending perhaps on a bigger drop. I know little of 'entrainment' so I guess the question is can the -'whats essentially a formula'  portrayed in this chart presented by Chaz Taylor be expected to accurately perform at reduced scale. In simpler terms may it be regarded like ohms law (for instance) put the figures get an accurate answer, or is it simply a rough indication for high flow rate situations.?



This with an 8ft drop with an inch pipe (for example)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wX4WtOHFZE&feature=youtu.be

The trompe seems to be doing a remarkable job of cleaning polluted mine water in this clip. I thought that brown sludge was bad - shows how much I know about oxidization in water !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I85esMMoRa4&feature=youtu.be

as I am writing this and searching for content, I came across a website the indications of which I haven't  fully digested yet however it seems to be navigating what I was considering (deep hole,small bore) I include for your inspection. The content I have found seems to supply the figures and mathematics that have been so sadly lacking in all the information on the Tromp and similar  I have managed to find so far. (I don't like the look of that hole he's going down BTW)

http://nxtwave.tripod.com/gaiatech/pulser/detailed.htm

kind regards Duncan

[Duncan]

A little checking informs Brian White is the man who wrote those numbers - here again for your interest is a video of him working on the tromp in more recent times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOn7Zu3CCxo regards Duncan

[evolvingape]

"precis" good word!

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/precis

I pointed out the diameter of the air pipe from the ragged chute plant drawing because it gives you some idea of the mass flow rate at the working pressure (117 psi).. it's massive! What useful work you can do depends on maintaining pressure with the volume of air you have available.. you can have low pressure, high mass flow rate.. or high pressure, low mass flow rate.. low pressure and low mass flow rate is not very useful.. this is why I am not interested in small scale applications.

It makes a lot of sense to buy a solar panel system over a small scale Trompe / Ram application.

[evolvingape]

I watched Mr Teslonian's video and part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLoQIAWmQbM

I like this guy so I am going to help him out..

You need to properly analyse the system.. 'all aspects of it'

The air pressure tube can be considered a body in space..

When a combination of the Trompe + Ram is in operation he can achieve a significant pressure above ambient atmospheric pressure.

60 psi of air pressure can pump water 40 meters vertically.

With the body filled with air it's specific density is not dissimilar from the air it is immersed in.. therefore the weight of the body (the plastic tubing enclosure) is the dominant weight force..

therefore, the bottom joint that the body is resting upon is under compression from the weight of the body, this is a net positive weight.

If you immerse that same body (plastic tube pressure enclosure) in a tube of water the specific density of the body changes significantly as the water is pumped out and the air fills the internal space..

This body now experiences an external force that is equal to the weight of displaced water, buoyancy and a net negative weight, which causes the body to ascend to the gas / liquid boundary plane.

The fitting that was under compression when the body was immersed in air is now under tension immersed in water.. if it could detach the body would gain gravitational energy by ascending through the liquid.

If you understand this and combine these two different aspects you will now understand that you can raise water using the gas pressure, and lift the body using buoyancy, from one input.

The buoyancy is a force that has been introduced to the system by immersing the body in a greatly denser medium.

We are now firmly in hhop gen 3 territory..

The main difference being that the Trompe / Ram system is run from environmental energy at a very low efficiency, the hhop gen 3 with a DC input is run from environmental energy via a solar panel at very high efficiency but uses hho rather than air pressure.

[Peterae]

I wonder if a reverse Trompe would work using wind as the carrier.
If a vertical wind shaft was in place where the wind enters at the bottom by suction from the top of the shaft (higher elevation) and water mist was blown in at the bottom, at the top was a large vessel to collect the water droplets, an acumalation of water at the top should form.
Which can be released once full to generate power.