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Author Topic: Comments on the McFreey paper  (Read 90567 times)

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I used my old "Dally replication" transformer driver (yoke transformer driven by a TL494) equiped with an extra heavy gauge 2 turn wire to drive my single turn (made of solid copper wire now) coil.

This single turn coil gets lukewarm when operating.

Frequency range of the TL494 is from 1.5KHz to 94KHz.

The used yoke is a solid ring, so no gaps, and the both primaries are speaker wire wound forth and back (so 2 layers each) covering the whole circumference of the yoke.

Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvDu83s-JzU&feature=youtu.be

I will try various single turn coils / tubes to see if any abnormalities can be observed while sweeping through the TL494 frequency range.

Regards Itsu
   

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Itsu,

If the copper/brass single turn ring gets warm then it's a good sign.  It means that some power is being transferred to it.
Ideally, the 2-turn secondary should be distributed around the full circumference of the core, but since this is impossible to do with 2 turns, you can simulate it with four such 2-turn windings connected in parallel, spaced 90deg apart along core's circumference.  
We are trying to prevent this from happening (yes, it applies to secondaries, too).

The frequency adjustment by pot is imprecise and NAR requires a precision down to single Hz.  
For minimal circuit alterations, you can disconnect the capacitor from pin #5 of the TL494 and apply a sawtooth signal to this pin #5 from your signal generator in order to obtain more tuning precision ( measure the amplitude of the signal at pin #5 BEFORE you disconnect the capacitor connected to it, so you can duplicate the amplitude well with your signal generator).
Note: My warning in pt.9 might also apply in this case, so remember: Apply input signal before applying the power supply to your big switching transistors!

P.S.
In the video you said that the 25turn bifilar winding is used for "driving". Are you sure?
Reversing the polarity of one of the halves of the LaLb coil might be a good try if you get stuck.
   

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Quote
The frequency adjustment by pot is imprecise and NAR requires a precision down to single Hz. 


Great, that makes sweeping through the frequency range a boring long task, luckily my DG4102 has good sweep capability, so using it for driving the TL494 seems a good idea.

Quote
In the video you said that the 25turn bifilar winding is used for "driving". Are you sure?

Well,  yes, but i mean to drive another coil like in the Akula replications which i was looking at and planning to use this TL494 setup for.

Quote
Reversing the polarity of one of the halves of the LaLb coil might be a good try if you get stuck.

Right, to get that opposing flux you mentioned earlier.

Thanks,   Itsu

   
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Itsu,

I appreciate your posts and videos very much.
I can provide you with some hands-on advice, if you need it.
McFreey stuff really works. It is not just a theory.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
yfree said:

Quote
McFreey stuff really works. It is not just a theory.

Are you speaking from first hand information to this effect? If so any hands on help would be greatly appreciated to all of us that are attempting replication.

A working set of standards for proof of concept would be really helpful.


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Yfree,

Quote
I can provide you with some hands-on advice, if you need it.


Great, thanks, i will show you here my progress (and when/where i get stuck), so i will let you know, but please don't hesitate to post your knowledge here for all to see like mentioned by ION.

For now i have some things i can do, and am still waiting for my 16 toroid's which i could use.

Checking the temperature yesterday on the single ring shows that it rises till 50 degrees Celsius depending on the used frequency (the lower the freq. (1.5KHz), the higher the temp. (50 C)).


verpies,

Quote
He set the frequency sweep period to 12h and had gone home to sleep.......

Nice one, next time he probably put a video camera in his lab, but then probably nothing happened   :)

Found that my DG4102 only sweeps for 300 seconds,  Hmmmm.

Regards Itsu
   

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Great, that makes sweeping through the frequency range a boring long task, luckily my DG4102 has good sweep capability, so using it for driving the TL494 seems a good idea.
On the light side, such long frequency sweeps remind me of an urban legend of some guy that was resonating a column of water in a glass cylinder with two frequencies.  He set one frequency's sweep period to 12h and had gone home to sleep.  When he came back to the lab, the all the water was gone and there was a nice round hole in the concrete ceiling above the intact container.  
You can probably find more details about this event on the Internet.

Right, to get that opposing flux you mentioned earlier.
Yes.
Also, I think it would be interesting to have alternating configurations of magnetic flux between LA and LB: opposing / aiding / opposing / aiding / etc... e.g. changing 50 times per second like between Diag.1a and Diag.2b.
I'll leave it to your creativity to invent how to accomplish such changes of flux direction, without switching windings using transistors (or other switches).

Found that my DG4102 only sweeps for 300 seconds,  Hmmmm.
It can sweep longer if you control it via your computer.

P.S.
I suggest that you take Yfree up on his offer of assistance.  He seems to be a decent, experienced and knowledgeable guy.
   
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Are you speaking from first hand information to this effect? If so any hands on help would be greatly appreciated to all of us that are attempting replication.

A working set of standards for proof of concept would be really helpful.

I verified the claims of McFreey as soon as the papers were published in the PJK Book. I am a (mainstream) physicist and "alternative energy" is my hobby. I liked the NMR ideas in the previous papers by McFreey, but could not reproduce them. As it turns out, even McFreey himself changed his mind. I know, some of his current claims may seem controversial now, but in time they will become obvious.
I had some coils built for my previous attempts (not as nice looking as Itsu's), so I did not have to make everything from scratch. However, my attention was peeled to Fig. 6 in particular, as I immediately noticed SM device there. There was full schematic and sufficient comments. On the other hand,  Fig 7 came with fewer details.
The most important part in McFreey's devices is the gain medium, the ring in Fig.6 (and Fig. 7 as well). The construction of the ring and it's mounting must be well thought of.
1. The ring cannot touch anything except the supporting dielectric (it has to vibrate freely).
2. The ring has to be characterized. Characterization can be conducted in situ (within the coil) but it is better done when the coil during characterization is biased DC not AC.
I am characterizing the ring ex situ, using a speaker (or neodymium) magnet placed under the ring as shown in the attached figure. The excitation pulses are delivered by a dual power transistor (transistors in parallel) emitter follower (achievable max pulse curent up to 40 A). Transformers may be useful here, but they introduce frequency dependence. There will also be some other problems with transformers when applied in the actual device (details later).
3. The characterization of the ring is done (believe or not) by  listening to the acoustical response of the ring under pulsed excitation, while sweeping the frequency. I also tried the electret microphone, as the one shown in the bottom of the figure, placed above the centre of the ring, with equal or better results. Microphone tuning is better because it also senses resonances which are not audible. Nothing should be attached to the ring, as this would shift the resonance frequencies. The resonant frequencies (quite a few of them) are then written down. The device tuning is accomplished around these frequencies starting from the highest. This avoids time consuming wide band tuning. The tuning requires plenty of precautions!
4. The ring is bent out of ~1.5 mm diameter copper wire. Thicker wire or slices of tubes are also acceptable, but the bulkier things are, the more current is required to vibrate them.
Thinner wire means shorter working time.  For  the ring shown in the figure ~1A is plenty.
McFreey is a gem. It really works.
More to come. (Thank's Itsu)

« Last Edit: 2013-08-10, 21:03:40 by yfree »
   

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Also, I think it would be interesting to have alternating configurations of magnetic flux between LA and LB: opposing / aiding / opposing / aiding / etc... e.g. changing 50 times per second like between Diag.1a and Diag.2b.

What happens in Diag.2b when the polarity changes, meaning - (minus) on the left, and + (plus) on the right?
The flux is neither opposing nor aiding, right?

You get the same situation when connecting those coils anti parallel.

Regards Itsu
   

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I verified the claims of McFreey as soon as the papers were published in the PJK Book.
I verified only that macroscopic acoustic vibration has a very similar effect on nuclei as alternating magnetic fields in NMR, essentially confirming the NAR effect as described by Bolef and Sundfors.  I write "only" because I did not take my experiments further than NAR.
   
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Hi yfree,

I recall a formula for estimating the mechanical resonant frequency of ferrite rings, it was issued by Philips, now Ferroxube.

See the formula in Page 3 of this PDF file http://www.ferroxcube.com/prod/assets/3r1.pdf  

It is possible that for some ferrite material types the probably empirical number 5700 in the nominator may change a little (I do not know for sure) so the calculated frequency from the mechanical OD and ID sizes may differ from the measured one. Still this formula may give a good approach where to fine-tune.

Greetings,
Gyula
   

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Thanks yfree for the picture and explanation.
I like the way you fixed the ring to the PCB, this way it can be inserted in between the both coil from the side.

Not sure if i understand what you are doing with the magnet ring.
This is a substitute for the (in my case changing) magnetic field generated by the La/Lb coil?
How do you pick up / step up any resonance by the single ring without any external coil?
Or is this single ring / magnet ring combo suppose to be inserted inside your La/Lb coils?


Yesterday evening i was running resonance tests on my single turn driven by the TL494/yoke transformer which in turn was driven by my FG like verpies mentioned (pin 5 of the TL494).

I used sweep ranges from 1KHz each time, starting from 2KHz to 3KHz (in 5 minutes), then from 3KHz to 4KHz, etc. all the way up till 13KHZ.

Nothing special was noticed/heard.

Lateron i removed the 50Hz welding transformer drive and used a permanent ceramic ring magnet closely (but not touching) the single ring inside the La/Lb coil creating a permanent magnetic field around the single coil.

Again a swepped across the 2KHz - 13KHz range in 1KHZ steps, but again nothing special noticed/heard.

I will repeat those tests today.


Regards Itsu
   
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Itsu,

The magnet under the ring in the picture is just for finding acoustic (mechanical) resonances of the ring.
After finding the resonance frequencies, you have to mount the ring either within the coils or in the gap between the coils (in the gap between the ferrite cores of the coils, in my case). Yes, I am using ferrite cores: three pieces of DigiKey 240-2244-ND (see below) in each coil glued together.
The frequency must be swept in a very narrow band (~5 Hz) around these frequencies in an analog way (not digital) because the resonances are extremely "sharp".
If you insist on digital sweeping, the frequency step must be 0.001 Hz. More on this in  ~3 hours.
   

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The frequency must be swept in a very narrow band (~5 Hz) around these frequencies in an analog way (not digital) because the resonances are extremely "sharp".
If you insist on digital sweeping, the frequency step must be 0.001 Hz. More on this in  ~3 hours.
@Itsu

I am sure Yfree warns you about your digital power amplifier that produces a rectangular waveform.  I am sure he does not object to your digital signal generator that can produce clean "analog" sine waves (with 14-bit resolution).

Also, regarding your "invention" - when one half of the LaLb coil is supplied with DC (or is substituted/supplemented with a permanent magnet) then the flux configuration will change from opposing to aiding, just as we were writing in previous messages.  If the second half of the LaLb coil is supplied with 50Hz AC then this directional flux change will happen 50 times per second (like between Diag.1a and Diag2.b)
« Last Edit: 2013-08-11, 20:54:40 by verpies »
   
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@yfree,

Have you reached a stage yet through experimentation where you can say your setup runs overunity?

Hoppy
   
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Have you reached a stage yet through experimentation where you can say your setup runs overunity?

@Hoppy,

The short answer is no, the system will never be overunity.
If you mean "overunity", where there is no visible supply of energy (energy comes from within the system), then yes. If you look at Fig.6, there is no external supply of energy. However, it is not that you construct the system according to the schematic in Fig. 6 and it will work. The system of Fig. 6 has to be tuned first. Then the system has to be started externally. After a successful start it will oscillate on its own, for some time, and it is possible to load it. There are, however, many details which we will have to go through (McFreey assumes too much/does not provide details - let's tease him, although his ideas are great).

As for the system in Fig.7 (which in my opinion is much more difficult to implement; it only looks simple), I just saw the effect and did not bother to loop it, I do not have the means at the moment. There are quite a few differences between Itsu's setup and what I was using (the coils are similar, except my coils are fitted with ferrite cores, see my previous post). I used the same coils in verification of Fig.6 and Fig.7.
   
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I am sure Yfree warns you about your digital power amplifier that produces a rectangular waveform.  

Indeed, I was using something closer to a rectified sinewave.

I am sure he does not object to your digital signal generator that can produce clean "analog" sine waves (with 14-bit resolution).

Indeed, there is no objection to digital signal generator when finding the resonance frequency of the ring, it is rather the frequency step.  In the procedure of finding the resonance frequency of the ring 1 Hz or even 10 Hz step is acceptable.

It is the frequency modulation (synchronized with current through the coils) during fine tuning and then during operation of the device that has to be fine. The tuning step in this case has to be very small; analog sweeping is best.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-11, 19:37:52 by yfree »
   
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@Hoppy,

The short answer is no, the system will never be overunity.
If you mean "overunity", where there is no visible supply of energy (energy comes from within the system), then yes. If you look at Fig.6, there is no external supply of energy. However, it is not that you construct the system according to the schematic in Fig. 6 and it will work. The system of Fig. 6 has to be tuned first. Then the system has to be started externally. After a successful start it will oscillate on its own, for some time, and it is possible to load it. There are, however, many details which we will have to go through (McFreey assumes too much/does not provide details - let's tease him, although his ideas are great).

As for the system in Fig.7 (which in my opinion is much more difficult to implement; it only looks simple), I just saw the effect and did not bother to loop it, I do not have the means at the moment. There are quite a few differences between Itsu's setup and what I was using (the coils are similar, except my coils are fitted with ferrite cores, see my previous post). I used the same coils in verification of Fig.6 and Fig.7.

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Hoppy
   
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Itsu,

Just to clarify one very important detail (which may have been missed).
For the system of Fig.7. the frequency of the ring excitation has to swept during every half cycle of magnetization current. This is because the resonance, at which the energy release phenomenon occurs, is extremely narrow. Without sweeping, it is rather unlikely to notice the effect. This is clarified in the figure below.
   

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Yfree, now you have lost me.


Do you mean that for every half cycle of the magnetization current, which is 100 times a second (50Hz) in my case, the excitation pulse for the ring needs to sweep up and down 5Hz the rings resonance frequency (which for one of my rings is 4.664KHz)?

If so, then an elaborate control circuitry needs to be installed, right?


Regards itsu
   
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Do you mean that for every half cycle of the magnetization current, which is 100 times a second (50Hz) in my case, the excitation pulse for the ring needs to sweep up and down 5Hz the rings resonance frequency (which for one of my rings is 4.664KHz)?

Exactly, the resonance frequency of your ring, fr,  must be within the frequency sweeping range. This is because, you are not able to maintain the fr with sufficient accuracy or even hit it to see the effect. This is why I said, the system in Fig. 7 is more difficult than the one in Fig.6. However, with all the details that come in addition to Fig. 6 (initial tuning system), it may not be so. This is a matter of taste.

If so, then an elaborate control circuitry needs to be installed, right?

Actually, the needed circuitry is rather simple. There can be many approaches, as always.
The frequency sweep does not have to be exactly linear, the graph was only an example.
I will offer my circuit, as soon as I draw it.
P.S. I found the working resonant frequency of my ring to be ~9502 Hz.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-12, 05:49:39 by yfree »
   

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Exactly, the resonance frequency of your ring, fr,  must be within the frequency sweeping range. This is because, you are not able to maintain the fr with sufficient accuracy or even hit it to see the effect. This is why I said, the system in Fig. 7 is more difficult than the one in Fig.6. However, with all the details that come in addition to Fig. 6 (initial tuning system), it may not be so. This is a matter of taste.

Actually, the needed circuitry is rather simple. There can be many approaches, as always.
The frequency sweep does not have to be exactly linear, the graph was only an example.
I will offer my circuit, as soon as I draw it.
P.S. I found the working resonant frequency of my ring to be ~9502 Hz.

Ok, yes, i am curious how your circuit looks like, thanks
I made a new ring (like your setup) of 1.5mm copper wire and a loop diameter of 6.5cm, and i am pretty sure this one resonates around 4985 Hz.
When i receive my toroid's, i can always switch to the fig. 6 circuit.

Regards Itsu
   
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Itsu,

I will do it ASAP, but during the week I am not that fast.
I was using XR-2206 which is no longer available, XR-2209 still is.
   

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I was using XR-2206
Itsu's signal generator outputs sine waves of better quality than the XR-2206.
...but his digital amplifier does not output sine waves, at all.
   
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Itsu's signal generator outputs sine waves of better quality than the XR-2206.
...but his digital amplifier does not output sine waves, at all.

It is not about the sine wave quality, it is about analog versus step-wise frequency modulation.
It seems that it can do both:
"Functions include Function Generation, Arbitrary Waveform Generation, Pulse Generation, Harmonic Generation, and Analog/Digital Modulation and Counting. The DG4000 utilizes Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) technology, which delivers stable, precise, low distortion signals."
It also says: frequency resolution 1 uHz.
If this is the case, than it should be fine.
   
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