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Author Topic: Comments on the McFreey paper  (Read 90348 times)

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Itsu,

I will do it ASAP, but during the week I am not that fast.

That's ok, i am working all week too and have enough things to try out, so take your time.

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In the mean time, I have a simple question:
How can one solder aluminium, without specialized tools?
   

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I've not tried it yfree but i understand it is possible to soft solder aluminium using a special flux, the thickness to be soldered will dictate the heat source as the alu will dissipate a lot of heat fast, so the thinner the easier.

Ideally you might be able to find someone with an ultrasonic welder  8)

Maybe find a metal fabrication shop and ask nicely.

I found a post somewhere else on another forum
Quote
I would recommend a tin-zinc solder. In my garage I was able to bond aluminum pretty easily, but I have been doing it for years. The 91% Tin one is the one I use

I guess a bit of experimentation is needed to see what works, but it does look possible

Also found a video here using a propane torch and special solder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiThO-UQIWE

and a video using engine oil and a soldering iron
http://www.edaboard.com/thread184719.html
« Last Edit: 2013-08-13, 22:54:49 by Peterae »
   
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Thank you for the links, Peterae. I also found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COaK_mQfipU

I finally found some time to draw the circuit.
The INP1 is a sine-wave synchronous with the magnetization current, e.g. an output of a transformer, 5 - 50V in amplitude. TP1 should show a rounded square-wave, while at TP2 there should be a proper square-wave. The HC86 forms an edge detector, both rising and falling, so TP3 should show very nice sharp pulses, corresponding to the rising and falling edges of the LM393. These pulses are turning on transistor Q which discharges capacitor C3. At TP4 should then be a saw-tooth signal. This signal modulates the frequency of the XR-2209. The modulation range is adjusted by the value of R8*. R10 tunes the centre frequency of the output square-wave (OUT1) and the triangle(OUT2) of the XR-2209. Both outputs are frequency modulated.
I also used a version where TP4 was not connected to C3,  but to the output of a full wave bridge rectifier that rectifies the INP1 signal. Then the modulation was not (almost) linear, as here, but followed the shape of a rectified sine-wave. 5V and 12 V, are stabilized.
I will revisit some of this, possibly this weekend.
P.S. The circuit comes without warranty or responsibility of any kind.
   
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yfree

Thanks for taking the time to supply the circuit. Looks like you are an experienced circuit designer.  I have a lot of older frequency generators / synthesizers, some are adjustable to millihertz, and some have VCO input. I may try to sync a few up for modulation and wide range adjustability, in addition to your discrete circuit approach.

A few years back I suggested that the odd results SM mentioned from his 5U4 power supply testing may have in part been due to loose transformer windings in one of the transformers, allowing for a small degree of acoustic vibration.

When I get to the bench, I will be trying something along the effect of a long solenoid coil with a spring like secondary coil suspended somewhat loosely within the main solenoid, along with some of the suggestions of McFreey and yourself.

I wish to thank you, verpies, and Itsu among others for keeping this topic alive and contributing such excellent material.


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ION, Itsu, All,

I have to ascertain some basic facts that I have mentioned before, although not explicitly enough. This may have created some confusion. These basic facts were mentioned in my reply #76.  What I am going to say now, which stems directly from these basic facts, has to be taken very seriously.
The magnetization frequency range for the device in Fig.7  given by McFreey, 50 - 4000 Hz, is very wide. This does not mean that every gain material will work at the lower frequency range. In fact, according to the information presented in reply #76, the device in Fig.7 will not work at all, at 50 or 60 Hz, if the gain material is copper or even aluminium. The lowest frequency for copper will be close to 1000 Hz, it will be slightly lower for aluminium. The device in Fig. 7 becomes quite difficult to implement at these frequencies. The device only looks simple when presented as in Fig.7. As I mentioned before, device in Fig.6 is much easier to replicate (Fig. 6 is the essence of Mark's technology). I can guide you through this as well. My offer of guidance was, in fact, related mostly to the device in Fig.6. Itsu's coils can be used in this implementation. Long coils are not needed.
I also have an idea how to simplify the approach in Fig. 7, but  will not present it until I verify it. I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-15, 20:20:51 by yfree »
   

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Yfree,

thanks for the circuit and for your latest update.
I have no problems to switch to Fig. 6 as most of the parts i have build can be used there too, however in the Fig. 7 circuit i can see where the (input) power comes from (LF  generator / RF generator), but Fig. 6 seems to operate without input which can not be true.

So how does one start the process there?
And what are the values for L4, L2, Lc and Ld?

Thanks, regards Itsu.
   

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Very nice selections of DDSs. The one Jason designed is 40mhz. It can reproduce Spherics protocol to produce the companion wave. As I watch the postings I see everyone getting closer and closer to the specifications. The ringing will appear at the correct strike whether it be by selection of transducer materials or target configuration, or drive parameters. In the yt that Jason posted the audience can see the only parameter he had to change was the potential level and then the process started effecting itself. This is exactly what TTBrown found when striking aluminum. Just raise the potential at the business end of a Telsa coil.


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SM stated that there were no cores in the windings of his coils, only copper coils of wire.

Also, he stated that they were wound as three single-loop coils stacked flat, then control windings around each (toroidal windings) and then more toroidal windings over all three.

I doubt that this method is what SM used.
   
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but Fig. 6 seems to operate without input which can not be true.

This was our goal, wasn't it?
When in operation, there is no external energy input. All the energy comes from the ring/tube as described in the initial part of McFreey's article.
This is possible because this device has an inherent feedback loop.
It has to be borne in mind that we are attempting to replicate something that so many tried to replicate over all these years, but failed.

So how does one start the process there?

When the device is already tuned, to start it, one has to connect coil L4 briefly to an oscillator, as described by McFreey. Tuning will be described in a separate post.

And what are the values for L4, L2, Lc and Ld?

This is more difficult to answer, because this depends on the built of the coils, La/Lb.
Lc is wound on two ferrite toroids, see Fig.6, and the inductance change of this coil has to be able to tune the frequency of oscillation of the L-C circuit, (La+Lb+Lc)-C, at least a few Hz. The inductance change of Lc is controlled by the current flowing through Ld (and the number of turns of Ld), which is also wound on the two toroids. The required inductance change has to occur approximately within 0 - 1A of current through coil Ld. The size of the toroids depends on the maximum current level circulating in the L-C circuit.
Coils L2 and L4 are wound around La/Lb.
More is coming soon.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-16, 16:11:28 by yfree »
   

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I am amazed how simple the original Meyer device is, he even gives a circuit diagram, all low voltage, low current stuff, course the crystal is the show stopper unless one can be made up to the exacting frequency, It must be worth a replication i am sure, just a copper rod, a highly accurately adjustable oscillator set to a frequency of 172.753867 KHz
I wonder what it costs to get crystals cut these days.

If SM based the TPU on this principle then he must have first built the device in Meyers Patent
   
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The easiest way to experiment is to put a function generator to a coil and have at it.

The tuning must be done in extremely small steps, so as not to miss the sharp resonance (high Q)

When the metal rod vibrates in synchronized step with the magnetic fields, that's when a DC voltage builds up.  [edit:  well maybe not, the article says AC frequency between 100 and 1000 Hz]
   
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I am amazed how simple the original Meyer device is, he even gives a circuit diagram, all low voltage, low current stuff, course the crystal is the show stopper unless one can be made up to the exacting frequency, It must be worth a replication i am sure, just a copper rod, a highly accurately adjustable oscillator set to a frequency of 172.753867 KHz
I wonder what it costs to get crystals cut these days.

If SM based the TPU on this principle then he must have first built the device in Meyers Patent

@Peterae,

You do not need to cut crystals for this.
Actually, the schematic in the Science et Vie article does not make any sense, only the caption does. McFreey translated it like this: "To shake the atoms and make them release the energy which they contain, you need to send a wave, with a high frequency oscillator (of the order of 172 kHz), that resonates with the vibration of the copper electrodes. This (is achieved) by an intermediary magnetic field that oscillates due to a coil surrounding the copper and connected to the oscillator" (translation by William McFreey; The frequency of 172 kHz is the mechanical resonance frequency of a particular copper rod that Meyer was using at the time.).

SM did not have to build Meyer's device. All this is based on Mandelstam and Papalexi device of 1935 and they used an LC circuit.

I am a bit late with the description of the tuning procedure (it is easier done that written), but I can assure you that the device in Fig.6 of McFreey paper is a working device, and that this is the technology of SM.
In short, one has to build an oscillator out of the coil with the ring resonator. It is best to use a vacuum tube for the purpose, as suggested by SM, because when the frequencies are hit, the voltages can go sky-high. The tubes can handle this, transistors not, unless precaution are taken. A Meissner oscillator can be used, see below, LB would be the combined coils La/Lb in Fig. 6. I did not use tubes, I used a high voltage  MOSFET. I will post the schematic and description as soon as it is drawn.
   

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Quote
Taking copper as the metal and its orbital conduction for , there is a convenient for the harmonic resonance frequency 172,753.867 Hz.In practice, it is applied to a coil to provide a magnetic field of the same frequency.
The selected copper metal in this case, is dipped in this alternating field and induction, resonance; the metal atoms are converted to electron emitters.

He gives a formula and infers the frequency is calculated from that formula, there is no parameter for the copper dimensions and therefore is related to the copper regardless of physical resonance.

Very misleading in that case.

Anyway i get your message Fig 6  O0
Sorry for the side track, and thank you yfree for prodding us in the right direction.
   

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In schematic 6 there is a spark gap. He labels it a high voltage suppressor. Really? This sends an EMP back against the coils which then causes more ringing. Doesn't this make the jumper cables jump?


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He describes using an SG to discharge lethal build up of potential as the device works, that's Fig 7 in my doc  ???
   

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Well i can start a build also, i will need to order the brass rod, so will this setup be OK to head towards.

Fig 6.

4mm Brass rod coiled maybe 1 to 4 Turns not decided yet.

Core, was it said a ceramic magnet was OK, i have some large magnets from some microwave oven magnetrons, if not i will need to order large cores.
   

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I am in the process of changing from Fig. 7 to Fig. 6.

I fixed the copper ring coil in between La/Lb.
Diameter ring is 6.35cm, making a calculated mechanical resonance freq. of 8.085KHz.
Trying to find/confirm this mechanical resonance point by exciting the La/Lb coil with a helper coil driven by my FG at half the above calculated freq. (4.042KHz), sweeping up and down in 100KHz ranges while maintaining resonance of the La/Lb coil by adding/removing fixed/variable capacitance.

No abnormalities found up till now.

Video here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAfIw0plWxw&feature=youtu.be

Need some more info on the Lc/Ld toroid's (size, nbr of turns, wire used etc), same for the L2/L4 coil.

Regards Itsu
   
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@Peterae

Fig.6  presents a bare bone device, perfectly tuned, ready to be started.
It does not need any magnets. Magnets may be needed for tuning, as shown by SM.
The device is easier implemented with toroidal cores , when the diameter of the device is small (a few centimeters). In this case, only "one turn" ring is preferred.
   

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Well that makes life a bit easier, a few cm is much easier to do,  O0
   
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Itsu,

Tuning has to be done in the circuit similar to the one in my post #138.
In short, one has to build an oscillator out of the coil with the ring resonator. It is best to use a vacuum tube for the purpose, as suggested by SM, because when the frequencies match perfectly, the voltages can go sky-high. The tubes can handle this, transistors not, unless precaution are taken. A Meissner oscillator can be used, see post #138, coil LB is the combined coils La/Lb in Fig. 6. Coil  LA in post #138 is an excitation coil (50-70 turns) placed above coil La, coil LC is the feedback coil (50 - 60 turns) placed below coil Lb. This is needed for tuning and starting the device. The capacitors constituting C have to be high voltage.  I did not use tubes, I used a high voltage  MOSFET. I will post the schematic and description as soon as it is drawn.
Without the negative feedback loop, you will not see continuous operation of the device.
   
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Itsu,

fr = VL/(pi*d ) =  4000/(3.14 * 0.0635) = 20051 Hz.
This is only a crude estimate. One can find VL for copper to be between 4000 to almost 5000 m/s. The best is to scan around frequencies estimated experimentally. This was described in post  #107. The amplitude of oscillations on C during scanning should be at least 50 V, more is better.
Are you connecting the output of your generator directly to the coil?
You should use a coupling coil for the purpose (~60-80 turns of 0.25 mm wire on ~10 cm diameter ring).
« Last Edit: 2013-08-18, 18:41:58 by yfree »
   

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Dan Davidson makes NAR sound so much easier in his patent.   (attached)

Some may remember Dan was the man that claimed to replicate the Hazelton device back in 1998.
   

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Itsu,

fr = VL/(pi*d ) =  4000/(3.14 * 0.0635) = 20051 Hz.  

Thanks, i forgot the brackets, now sweeping around 10.025KHz......

Quote
The amplitude of oscillations on C during scanning should be at least 50 V, more is better.

Are you connecting the output of your generator directly to the coil?
You should use a coupling coil for the purpose (~60-80 turns of 0.25 mm wire on ~10 cm diameter ring).

I use a exciter coil inside the La/Lb coil with those spec's only the former is much smaller, 12mm (you can see it in the video).
The La/Lb coil presently resonates on 10.025KHz with 52V pp.


In post #146 what do you mean by:  ABOVE  and BELOW,   Above = on the outside of La, and Below = underneath/inside of Lb?

Quote
#138 is an excitation coil (50-70 turns) placed above coil La, coil LC is the feedback coil (50 - 60 turns) placed below coil Lb.

looking into this Meisner (MOSFET) oscillator..................Thanks


Regards   Itsu
   
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