Which (serious) FE device should I buy? FE devices for sale.

[PhysicsProf]

   I say "serious" because there are several FE devices available for purchase that are not serious, such as the Howard Johnson motor which I have looked into.  

  But some I cannot rule out so easily, based on available test evidence.  Sure, I would like to test a device before purchase -- and I note there are some FE devices now available for purchase. And I request your SERIOUS evidence-based comments on these.  No ad-hominems ("you are wacky") or put-downs based on "FE is wacky", please.

Here I list three, and I welcome additions to the list -- FE DEVICES THAT ARE NOW AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE, and serious comments on why they might or might not "work" as FE devices.

1.  http://shop.quantamagnetics.com/kits_c2.htm   -- which "kit" would be best to test?  and at the lowest cost possible?   would they allow a test, and Money-back guarantee?  The assembled kit looks interesting, see photo... what do you think?

2.  Ramos (of Peru) mechanical-based device, hooked to a motor-generator set -- see photo.  Apparently for sale, but I don't have contact information yet. On the EF forum, I_ron wrote:

Incidentally Ramos is selling a high powered version for $75,000. Ucross will sell the 3Kw model for $7,000. He states that there is a hidden key that is only revealed with the purchase of a kit.

Ron

Edit:  more info found here:

http://foro.redjedievolution.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=3397&sid=734bee147b736fe8775d5ba871a21851&start=78

ultima noticias la empresa don sixto ramos ya los esta vendiendo pero a precios muy elevados por un multiplicador de fuerza que usa 5 hp y tiene una salida de 100 hp piden 75.000 dolares.

estan en este momento negociando con unas empresas de brasil para los derechos de fabricacion y produccion del mismo.

English: latest company news and Don Sixto Ramos is selling at very high prices but by a force multiplier that uses 5 hp and has an output of 100 hp asking $ 75,000.   are currently negotiating with some companies in Brazil for manufacturing and production rights thereof.

3.  Ucros (of Colombia) also mechanical-based device hooked to a motor-generator set:  http://www.ucros-energy.es.tl/ENGLISH-.htm  

Cuando en el mundo no haya ya petrolèo que extraer del planeta tierra,ya este COLOMBIANO INNOVADOR CARLOS UCROS PIEDRAHITA -Pasaporte 73.080.905 Tiene la Soluciòn a toda esas torres de bombeo que quedaran como chatarra para darles un buen uso miren el dibujo seran balancines de generaciòn de energia en las grandes turbinas Eòlicas y sacar energia sin el VIENTO y les presento mi Multiplicador de Fuerza Ciclo Electrico y vean la diferencia con la Innovacion del Perùano Fernando Sixto Ramos la del Colombiano fue pensando en grande para Mover las grandes Turbinas Eólicas con mi Novedosa Forma y busco EMPRESARIO PATROCINANTE EN ESTE PROYECTO, para contactadme ver mi modesta web echa por mi para dame a conocer http://​www.kits-ucros.es.tl/ EMAIL kit.ucros@gmail.com  ucrosenergy@gmail.com

Where in the world do not have oil and extract of planet earth, and this COLOMBIAN INNOVATOR CARLOS UCROS 73,080,905 PIEDRAHITA-Passport has the solution to all these towers remain as scrap pumping them to good use for the drawing will look rocker power generation in large wind turbines and get energy without the wind and I present my Force Multiplier electrical cycle and see the difference with the innovation of the Peruvian Fernando Sixto Ramos of Colombia was thinking big to move large wind turbines with my novel way and look ENTREPRENEUR iN THIS PROJECT SPONSOR to see my modest contactadme web to give me my check for known http:// kit.ucros www.kits-ucros.es.tl/ EMAIL @ gmail.com ucrosenergy @ gmail. com

So I wrote to Carlos Ucrós Piedrahita,  and received back yesterday the following (using google- translator):

Hello good morning Don Steven Jones.
First of all I would like country saver that I write and have their data as full name and address to make the identification sent UPS.DHL airway, OR FEDEX and would like to clarify that I specify if the system wants the Mini Ucrós Kits-cycle electric bikes or electric cycle Multiplier Auto Rocker Ucrós sustained if the rocker the smallest of 3 kW at 220 volts AC. It costs us $ 3,000 if in America...

Hola buenos dias Don Steven Jones.
Primero que todo me gustaria saver de que pais me escribe y para tener sus datos como nombre completo dirección y identificación para poder hacerle el envió via aérea por UPS.DHL,O FEDEX y me gustaría aclarar me especificar cual de los sistema quiere si el Mini Kits-Ucrós ciclo eléctrico para BICICLETAS o el Balancin Multiplicador ciclo eléctrico Auto sustentado Ucrós si es el Balancin el mas pequeño de 3 Kw en 220 voltios AC. LE CUESTA  u.s.$ 3.000 Dolares si esta en AMÉRICA

$3K for the small "force multiplier" for an electric bike.

[PhysicsProf]

Here are photos from the Ucros web-site showing devices...  I see similarities with the Ramos device:  weighted cross-beam between two cams, one on the motor and one on the generator...

This vid explains the cam-action for the Ramos device:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fslf98aw7E&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLgY1w73JtptzOlzD9X7VTaQ

[PhysicsProf]

I've been writing to Ucros this week.  He does have a kit for an electric bike for $3,000 US.

This morning I wrote to Ucros stating that I was considering which type of kit to buy, and that may take a few weeks.

He promptly replied:

OK Mr Jones si de aqui a ese tiempo no e serrado negocio con un Empresario español que me esta haciendo una oferta de los derechos por 5 Millones de Euros y el los venderas y tendra los derechos si no me lo compra a mi se lo comprara a  el saludos.

Google is not clear:
OK Mr Jones if not here at that time and sawing business with a Spanish businessman I are bidding rights for 5 million euro and the rights and shall sell any  if I do not buy from me to buy it the greetings.

That sounds like he may be "selling out" -- but can anyone help with the translation?

[forest]

Are they really FE devices for sale Self-sustaining devices ?

[exnihiloest]

Of course. Order on Amazon   .

[Paul-R]

Of course. Order on Amazon   .

Does Amazon offer a "no quibble money back guarantee" ?

[Peterae]

No but if you pay using a credit card you should be covered for a full refund

[PhysicsProf]

       I wrote QM asking about purchase of one of their kits, but have received no answer back... 
If any one succeeds in contacting them; pls let me know.

http://shop.quantamagnetics.com/kits_c2.htm

[e2matrix]

      I wrote QM asking about purchase of one of their kits, but have received no answer back...  
If any one succeeds in contacting them; pls let me know.

http://shop.quantamagnetics.com/kits_c2.htm

PM sent. 
Out of those listed This sounds like the most reputable place and his vids show a quality product.  I believe this is the same company:
Blackpoint Engineering, LLC
65695 US Highway 33
Goshen, IN 46526
574-642-3152
Personally I wouldn't buy anything out of the country unless I could see it in person and be able to verify it's power. 

[ion]

Those (QC) are nicely built motor / generator sets and might be interesting for classroom use.

The design, however, makes them extremely inefficient as either motors or generators.

Aside from the hype of the marketing video, what claims are actually made for the units? (paper specifications e.g power output: electrical,  torque or horsepower or both vs. power input)

I suspect you will get a very fast and rather stinging education regarding the FE Industry if you buy one of these, and if you do a little research,  a real education regarding how efficient motor/generators are actually built.

Of course, this is only my opinion.

[PhysicsProf]

I asked Ucros for test data, actual measurements, but these he did not send -- just asks for $3K for his small device to be sent to Colombia, but with no actual data to back it up....  I need test data first!

PM sent.  
Out of those listed This sounds like the most reputable place and his vids show a quality product.  I believe this is the same company:
Blackpoint Engineering, LLC
65695 US Highway 33
Goshen, IN 46526
574-642-3152
Personally I wouldn't buy anything out of the country unless I could see it in person and be able to verify it's power.  

Very helpful...  I will try to reach them by phone.
Two more candidates:
1.  Cogar International:  http://www.cogarinternationalenergy.com/how-it-works.php

The Hydro-Electric Reactor is an electricity-producing technology which uses a scientific principle known as the Multiple-Compression Propulsion System (M.C.P.S.) to generate electricity in commercial quantities.

The Reactor does not use any fossil fuel or carbon-based compounds to produce electricity and it is the world's most advanced and most efficient green energy technology.

A commercial-sized prototype has been built and tested with successful results. The Hydro-Electric Reactor uses 100 kilowatts of electricity to produce 150 kilowatts of electricity output from one generator. Adjustments have been made to produce 250 kilowatts of electricity output using about 125 kilowatts of electricity input.

The Reactor transfers kilowatts out of the kilowatts of the electricity it generates, back to the starter motor, in order to continue operating perpetually without any external power source. The extra 1500 kilowatts generated is distributed to other users.

Smaller units of the Reactor can generate several kilowatts of electricity for residential, commercial and industrial buildings and larger units can generate megawatts of electricity for entire cities using about 10% power input.

The system is designed to work together in a group for the supply of electricity to large cities, towns and other communities or as individual units to supply electricity to residential, commercial or industrial buildings.

The Reactor can generate pure, clean and sustainable green energy, all-year-round, using only compressed air as its fuel. Ambient air from the atmosphere goes into the Hydro-Electric Reactor power plant and it is compressed at very high speeds, at many stages, to produce electricity. Only air is discharged from the exhaust, back into the atmosphere.

There is no daily operating cost whatsoever.

The technology can be applied to produce power plants for electricity and also to produce all-electric engines for motor vehicles, marine crafts and all types of aircrafts, with unlimited miles range.

The Hydro-Electric Reactor is a self-sustaining green energy technology.

The invention is being secured with worldwide patents..

2.   "www.quentron.com and launch date info http://www.quentron.com/launch.html     Philip Hardcastle"
 --  Thanks to e2matrix for calling this to my attention; there is a thread at ou on this.

Official Launch 19th November 2012
Palo Alto, California
(limited seating by invitation only)

Please register your interest in attending by 5th November
(Invitations will be issued 8th November)

We are moving our operations to the USA, we expect to be in limited production of Quenco by the time of the launch and therefore to be in a position to provide loan devices to commercial and scientific attendees.
****************************************************************
It is our intention to hold information sessions in each of the
UK, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brazil, and Germany.
If time permits we may also schedule a session in South Africa
There will be licences reserved for each of these sessions.
6 licences have been reserved for Australians.
****************************************************************
Sessions dates will be announced in January.

Some loan devices will be of commercial quality (rugged) but some may be laboratory items (requiring careful handling), we therefore encourage professionals who have an interest in securing a licence to attend with scientific advisors who can ask appropriate technical questions regarding further development (roadmap).

We stress the launch is not about fully commercialised Quenco films, it is about showing and proving a technology to companies that have the capability of taking on the task of further R&D towards the goal of roll to roll mass production.


We are also interested in entering into NDAs with companies or Universities prior to the launch for the purpose of evaluating production technologies and R&D collaborations. We specifically are keen to talk with fabrication facilities that have roll to roll ALD equipment, and advanced automated film characterization capabilities.

What is this about "film characterization"?  what is he talking about?

PS -- on all these, test data seems to be hard to come by...

[PhysicsProf]

More from the Quenco site:

The World urgently needs a new source of power

A source that is ultra cheap and has zero emissions
 
Power that is limitless, reliable, and also mobile

Quenco is the only 24/7 complete solution

A modern miracle for all mankind


Quenco, is a thin film heat to power technology

A genuine breakthrough in physics

Ambient heat is converted into electrical power

Solid state and needs no fuel or maintenance

Imagine

50 kW Power for electric vehicles - $10,000
(Cheaper than batteries, and unlimited range)

10 kW Home power systems - $5,000
(off grid, no bills and a payback of just 2 years)
and
All the energy comes from the heat in ambient air
(it works even if the air temp is -40)

Also imagine

Phones and Computers that never need charging
Ultra-Computers with stacked CPUs that recycle heat
Bionics, Tractors, Grow lights, Hydroponics, Air-con


All royalties (est $200B/p.a) to go to NFP Foundations.



The use of quenco will be create millions of new jobs

Potentially help feed billions of people

And reduce the damage being done to our World

"All the energy comes from the heat in ambient air
(it works even if the air temp is -40)"
This appears to be a "heat pump", not in the class of freedom energy devices.

[Paul-R]

A power of 50 Kw, they say?

It extracts energy from the air, presumably by dropping the temperature of the
air. But the thermal mass of air is not all that great.

How much through put of air is needed to create a theoretical 50 Kw if the
air is dropped to 10 degrees C above absolute zero?

Are our fellow neighbours going to get upset if they are sudddenly living at this
temperature?

Maybe I have this all wrong.

[ion]

An extremely efficient solid state heat pump / generator will spell the death of the internal / combustion engine.

Thermoelectric generators have reached their limit because of the highly thermally conductive type of thermoelectric materials used. We have not explored superconductive ceramic thermocouple materials for this use, which would provide a higher degree of thermal insulation between source and sink, while generating reasonable current.

We have seen other startups like Quenco making great claims.

The question then becomes: where can I buy a small sample to test in my lab?

I can do this for Peltier type devices at around 15$ and it will work as a heat pump or generator of electricity if the process is reversed. Unfortunately they lack efficiency, but can be tested in the lab.

The first step in any revolutionary breakthrough science it becomes incumbent on the claimant to supply engineering samples of the proposed device to the interested scientific and engineering firms.

This was done for the vacuum tube, rectifier diode, transistor, tunnel diode etc.

Quenco , if they are real should be selling small samples of their devices at a reasonable price to interested parties for proof of concept and general interest in designing such a breakthrough into products.

When this is not done I become suspicious. Their website says they will be supplying larger and delicate devices to interested parties.

If you have the time and money attending their conference should be interesting.

From their website, which is sorely lacking any real information outside of fees.

Quenco is thus a realisation of Maxwell's Demon and so, according to current thinking, violates the 2nd Law.

The White paper to be released will explain in detail how.

Only an independently tested device will settle the argument.

Also see this thread:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=48.0

[PhysicsProf]

PM sent. 
Out of those listed This sounds like the most reputable place and his vids show a quality product.  I believe this is the same company:
Blackpoint Engineering, LLC
65695 US Highway 33
Goshen, IN 46526
574-642-3152
Personally I wouldn't buy anything out of the country unless I could see it in person and be able to verify it's power. 

E2 -- did you get any reply from these guys?
Thanks.

[exnihiloest]

A power of 50 Kw, they say?

It extracts energy from the air, presumably by dropping the temperature of the
air. But the thermal mass of air is not all that great.

How much through put of air is needed to create a theoretical 50 Kw if the
air is dropped to 10 degrees C above absolute zero?
...

Good question.  
The heat capacity of air is 1004 J/(Kg.K). This means that we need 1004 J to rise the temperature of 1 Kg of air by 1 Kelvin. We can round the value to 1 KJ/(Kg.K).
50 KW = 50 KJ/s, so if you cool air by 1K, you would need 50 Kg of air every second.
If we suppose a more realistic cooling of air, for instance by 10K, we would yet need 5Kg/s of air. The air density being 1.2 kg/m³, the motor would need 5/1.2= near 4.2 m³ of air at atmospheric pressure every second! This would imply a tremendous cross-section to catch so much air, and even a pump to capture it when the vehicle moves at low speed. The other difficulty, and not the least, is to cold 4.2 m³ of air by 10K every second, which would be an astonishing efficient Maxwell's demon, definitely exterminating the second law of thermodynamics.
I wouldn't put a single kopeck in their business.

[forest]

In the past inventors always stated about tapping atmospheric electricity. It was just excuse to avoid perpetuum mobile claims and cover the inability to recognize what is the external source of energy....

[exnihiloest]

In the past inventors always stated about tapping atmospheric electricity.
...

They stated but were unable to provide a useful device, therefore they were not inventors but talebearers.

[Paul-R]

Are they really FE devices for sale Self-sustaining devices ?

John Bedini's people are saying that a ready to run SG, fully assembled and tested
will be availble in late December (presumably to ensure that they miss the Christmas
market).

[forest]

I must confess I'm more and more convinced that energy source of OU devices comes from energetic stream which is cause of gravitation and also magnetic field of Earth. The second considered source by me is cosmic rays in the way Tesla thought about it. When cosmic rays collide with matter generates electrons among other particles but because of atmosphere and the uniform distribution of cosmic rays sources in space only radioactive elements are considered as a source of energy. Tesla knew the method to first generate unbalanced state so ordinary elements become radioactive , and second generate usable amount of electric current from this effect.
That second method is more powerful the the first one , allowing for much higher energy output density.
First method was used by Tesla in magnifying transmitter as a method for producing high frequency output.

I will be working on this first method soon hopefully. The plan is to get ready next year with the useful prototype generating free 1-5kW output for home heating project.

[exnihiloest]

I must confess I'm more and more convinced that energy source of OU devices
...

There are OU devices?! Really?!  It's now a fact and just the energy source is the question?!
You should give us the plans of the ones you built, every experimenter here is surely in a hurry to duplicate them.

[forest]

he he not so fast, first a prototype has to be made, in theory it works, ask Ismael Aviso it's very similiar, and very easy....

[giantkiller]

I watched the PESN Ismael Aviso vids. Excruciating...
But by shorting the coil he basically applying noise to a bias magnetic field.
Noise in equals noise out and the caps collect this no matter what the speed of the energy.

[exnihiloest]

The interest with Aviso, is that every point related to his claim is advocating in favor of a fraud. This allows us to save time by moving on to other subjects.

[Farmhand]

Yes I always seen him and his stuff as suspicious, In my opinion individuals like him may think they have some OU and so present it as such.
Then certain web sites or web entities give incentives for more claims, the "MO" being I think to play on the experimenters ego to get a news story
then if it turns out bogus the web site/entity can plead ignorance and say "we are just reporters". It is a big call but I think the advertising forums
organize "flashy" sounding devices with implied OU  so as to boost site hits. And I think they do it in different ways.

Cheers