THe Roberval Balance

Author Topic: THe Roberval Balance (Read 7783 times)

Valeriy	THe Roberval Balance « on: 2012-12-28, 20:39:00 »
Jr. Member Posts: 87	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoU9_BFIWwE Maybe that's why the creation of an Overbalanced Wheel fails... « Last Edit: 2013-01-03, 00:19:15 by Valeriy »

EMdevices

Re: THe Roberval Balance « Reply #1 on: 2012-12-30, 15:03:37 »

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Posts: 1625

Quote from: Valeriy on 2012-12-28, 20:39:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoU9_BFIWwE

Maybe that's why the creation of an Overbalanced Wheel is always fails...

OMG, this is the secret of Bessler's wheel!

thanks for posting this Valeriy, man I'm so excited, do you guys see it?

The bars that hang the weight stay horizontal all the time, so we can control the torque by shifting them HORIZONTALY, which does not represent an energy input, its a constant potential shift.

However, there is a torque that can rotate the device, but in this video THEY DON'T SHOW IT TO US, BECAUSE IT IS POSITIONED AT THE NEUTRAL POINT.

Damn, 2012 proved to be the year!

I'll draw a graphic soon.

EM

EMdevices

Re: THe Roberval Balance « Reply #2 on: 2012-12-30, 15:19:54 »

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Posts: 1625

Ok, here it is.

The left arm has the weight at the center producing a force downward F, and the right arm has an equal force (weight) displaced to the right along the horizontal arm.

The figure on the right shows the equivalent forces acting on the balance to the figure on the left, namely, the force on the right is shifted back to the center and the moment it created is shown.

Now, the two forces at the centers balance themselves out, should be easy to see.

But, the torque is not balanced and will it not rotate the balance until the top and bottom arms are horizontal, at which point it is balanced, this is the neutral point we were shown in the video, but in the rotated position I have drawn it, there is a restoring torque which should be easy for anybody to visualize.

Therefore, all we have to do is have a synchronizing mechanism to shift the weight at the opportune moment, to constantly create rotation and torque.

Is that not it? Even if the torque can't rotate the balance, I think we can still make use of this dual pivot parallelogram balance in the Bessler wheel. This is great stuff! or is it? lol

EM

THe Roberval Balance

bessler_principle.jpg (33.55 kB, 989x410 - viewed 1574 times.)

Peterae

Re: THe Roberval Balance « Reply #3 on: 2012-12-30, 15:27:53 »

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Surely the only way to cause an imbalance or create the movement is by add and removing weight, this would require energy, it's not just a matter of adjusting the weight position or is it?

Notice in the picture below, the left weight is on the inside and the right on the outside, under normal conditions i would have expected this to lead to an imbalance but in the video it does not, therefore the only way is to add or remove weight from either side, doesn't look like a free lunch to me.

THe Roberval Balance

pp1.jpg (27.63 kB, 483x337 - viewed 1252 times.)

EMdevices

Re: THe Roberval Balance « Reply #4 on: 2012-12-30, 15:34:58 »

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Posts: 1625

In the position you've shown, the horizontal forces created in the top and bottom arms, pass right through the top and bottom pivot, so that's why it is balanced, but the way I drew it, will have a moment about the pivots. I'll have to draw a detailed analysis of this, but I can see something at this point and it is very exciting. At least it is a starting point.

thanks for derailing me again Valery, Damn Bessler Obsession! how do I get rid of it?

EM

edit: look at the picture below. I zoom in on the upper right pivot, and we see the force Fm which is the reaction of the moment on the top arm (a similar force is on the bottom arm) This force Fm only produces a torque about the pivot when angle theta is greater then zero, but in the video we were shown the balance when theta is zero, so there is no torque because the force Fm passes right through the pivot. (the F/2 force is balanced so we don't concern ourselves with it here)

Do you guys see what I"m talking about?

THe Roberval Balance

bessler_principle_02.jpg (25.33 kB, 727x410 - viewed 1183 times.)

BEP	Re: THe Roberval Balance « Reply #5 on: 2012-12-30, 20:21:25 »
Hero Member Posts: 2205	The weight of each mass never leaves the position where the vertical strut meets the hanger bar. It is the same old confusion found in gyroscopes. The weight is always there. It may be shifted due to angular momentum or a fixed horizontal hanger bar but is always there. Sorry folks. Nothing magic about this.

Allcanadian	Re: THe Roberval Balance « Reply #6 on: 2012-12-31, 10:03:24 »
Hero Member Posts: 3126	What I usually do in situations like this is just keep repeating .. Do not follow that rabbit down the hole, Do not follow that rabbit down the hole , and everything usually turn out fine. --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman