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Author Topic: Daniel McFarland Cook Generator  (Read 188076 times)
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Hi Grumage,

Nice find on the induction coil pics. I was wondering if you knew what the original sources of these pics was.. I'd like to look at the larger context of how these coils were usually built.
I agree with you that D. Cook's coils could have been near to standard issue. It's possible that just building them that size was the main cause in the OU effect.

orthofield
   

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Hi Grumage,

Nice find on the induction coil pics. I was wondering if you knew what the original sources of these pics was.. I'd like to look at the larger context of how these coils were usually built.
I agree with you that D. Cook's coils could have been near to standard issue. It's possible that just building them that size was the main cause in the OU effect.

orthofield

Dear orthofield.

Twas dear wattsup's post here.... http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1616.msg46485#msg46485  There was a download for Davis's Manual of magnetism 1842.  Page 173 onward.

If you then go to the end there is a price list, those coils were expensive !! $12.00 to $18.00. He must have been a wealthy man !!

Cheers Grum.



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From the pictures Grumage posted this would seem to be how coils were depicted at that time just as we use a standard coil symbol when drawing our circuits. I have found this is generally the case with patents and we tend to focus on things which are obvious while ignoring what is latent or hidden within the patent. As if to say it is not what we see but what they are doing with what we see.

AC


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From the pictures Grumage posted this would seem to be how coils were depicted at that time just as we use a standard coil symbol when drawing our circuits. I have found this is generally the case with patents and we tend to focus on things which are obvious while ignoring what is latent or hidden within the patent. As if to say it is not what we see but what they are doing with what we see.

AC

Dear Allcanadian.

You have a favourite saying...... " To each his own "

I have read right through that book and strangely only one other coil depicted looks like the ones represented in DMC's patent. I really do feel that he must have acquired them from a manufacturer.

Now for an open question. Is it possible that the core length plays a vital role ? Remember Tesla's motor that had two short and two long Iron cores creating a 90 deg shift? Is it possible that over a long core we might have areas of phase shift?  ;)

Cheers Grum.


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Hi Grumage,

Very interesting! It should be possible to find the actual manufacturer, since they probably advertised these cores in some of the periodicals of the time.
A couple letters back I said:

"There are basically just two transformers interlinked and separated by space, each with a core where domains are bound to take time to move from one end to the other.  Somehow, I think that the cores are separated in space is important, and the device wouldn't work if there were an iron bridge connecting them at top and bottom."

So I agree that a domain time delay is the best and simplest explanation for the operation of the Coil. If a time delay happens between two elements of an inductive circuit, there is a possibility for the output flux to shift in time so that it cooperates and adds to the input flux. Occam's razor suggests everything else in the circuit is conventional except for the core size and length.

 It should be possible to experiment and find the time delay in iron cores of this description, either with or without the iron wires inside. There is even some old tests about speed of domains in iron wires from the Bubble Memory era that could serve this purpose

orthofield

Despite good efforts on everyone's part to find something unusual about the circuit, I've not seen anything that suggests the unusual except for the large cores. By Occam's razor, the large cores are the whole explanation for the unusual.
   
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Hi Grumage, Wattsup,

Your find of the Davis Manual of Magnetism book is excellent, Wattsup. It gives many leads to follow up.

The Cook Coil is directly based on a well-known device of the time, "Page's Separable Helices". I've found many references to them. The inventor is Charles Grafton Page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Grafton_Page

The original instrument was used for medical purposes as shocking people was considered good medicine at the time.

http://www.erittenhouse.org/artitcles/erittenhouse-vol-24-1-2012-2013/c-g-page-and-his-shocking-coil/

You can see the 'stopcock' like electrical connections in some of these pictures.
Attached is Page's patent from 1868, just before he died. You can see the tall, secondary core with separable sections shown in Cook's design. The device had been invented 30 years before, and was in common usage by the time Cook patented.

Although it was unusual to have induction coil cores as big as Cook's, it wasn't unheard of..several very large cores are shown on this page:

http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyApparatus/Electricity/Induction_Coil/Induction_Coil.html

Interestingly, Davis, who wrote the manual, was also one of the major manufacturers of these devices.

In the Davis manual, pg. 178 is especially interesting, since it points directly to a node, or standing wave pattern in the EMF, from use of the massive cores. A search coil moved up and down the large core will show greatest shocks at the central portion, despite the fact that the magnetism is strongest at the ends. The quote is attached here as well.

orthofield



orthofield

   
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Hi Wattsup, Grumage,

Daniel Davis was the manufacturer of the Separable Helices that the Cook Coils were based on. I'm not sure if Cook used store-bought coils, but they are certainly very similar. Davis made such instruments out of Boston for many years, and sold something very similar to 1/2 of the Cook Coil for 12-18 dollars (the ad is in the back of the book you found, Wattsup).
Another point mentioned in one of the pages in the old articles on the Separable Helices is that the primary could be spatially separated from the secondary and the device would still work.
It doesn't take much of a stretch to imagine Daniel getting two such separable coils, observing time delays or nodal patterns on each coil, and then observing their interaction at a distance, to get to his patent setup. He would certainly have had the Manual OF Magnetism in his shop, which refers to the unusual effect of greater induction in the center of the core than at the ends. This just screams "delay" to me.
All of this to me indicates that the Cook Coil is simple. No 'superhelices', no hidden circuits, no missing patent parts. Just what is seen-- but as Allcanadian said, what is seen is not the whole story...
Research continues.

orthofield
   
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Hi all,

Still finding stuff based on Wattsup's book find. The page below shows coils extremely similar to those shown in the Cook patent, and made by Daniel Davis...

http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyApparatus/Daniel_Davis_Apparatus/Separable_Helix/Separable_Helix.html

orthocoil
   
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@Grumage
Quote
Now for an open question. Is it possible that the core length plays a vital role ? Remember Tesla's motor that had two short and two long Iron cores creating a 90 deg shift? Is it possible that over a long core we might have areas of phase shift? 

We will know soon enough, I have wound two 24" primaries and next week I will build the cores then wind the secondaries...then fire this bad boy up.

AC


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Lol nice ! I love that you called it a bb.
   
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@orthofield

Good find. The thing is Cook says the primary is first and if compound helices of different wire size, he says #30 as the primary on the core and the secondary of #16 or even larger wound over the primary. This is the opposite of the devices shown on your last post or the guy that made that web page got it backwards.

@AC

Vavavoum. Those bb's are really sleek.

@guys

Found these three pdfs here......

http://www.sil.si.edu/digitalcollections/trade-literature/scientific-instruments/CF/SIsingle-record.cfm?AuthorizedCompany=E.S.%20Ritchie%20%26%20Sons%2C%20Inc.

Each is a treasure of those times. See on 51791 pdf page 72 or doc page 62.

The cook device is using an outside induction through a mains or battery make/brake to start a loop in the coils. But that looping has gaining on that huge core "up to the capacity of the conductors" of 16 awg. The wire could not handle more then 3.7 amps (according to todays ratings for power transmission) and how many volts?

If battery started of ??? volts, look at pdf 52552 pdf page 92 or doc page 87. Hmmmm.

If mains started, he uses a rheostat.  

Just trying to figure out some anticipated throughput, since he also indicates that paraffin can be objectionable due to melting because of the heat from wire under action. How much heat melts paraffin? Should not be much.

http://www.electrotherapymuseum.com/2010/Silicone1/index.htm

wattsup


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He would certainly have had the Manual OF Magnetism in his shop, which refers to the unusual effect of greater induction in the center of the core than at the ends. This just screams "delay" to me.

I think another explanation is the frequency of the discharge into the human body.  With the secondary coil at the center where the magnetic field is greatest then so is the inductance greatest  If we treat the human body as a capacitor shunted by a resistor then the discharge will be a damped sine wave at a frequency determined by that LC. With the coil at the ends the L will be lower and the frequency higher.  And since the only measure of power or energy is the "feel" then this could very well explain things.

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Dear All.

This might sound silly? But I am a little confused.  ???

I see this transformer as having it's primary being the heavier coil with fewer turns and the secondary being the lighter wire and many turns !!  Ah La, the Tesla coil. Whereas you all seem to be saying the other way round, hence my confusion !!

Is it me or is it you ??  ;)

Cheers Grum.


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@Grumage

Hahahahaha. This was also a question then.

What seems to be the case is this. Cook does not care what AWG you use for either coil. He has his preference as he says 16 awg for both when two coils per core, but you can mix it up and he says you can use #30 on the first layer which he always identifies as Primary and #16 over that as the Secondary. Then over one of the secondaries, you need a third coil wound to provide the initial impulse.

He was always working with DC mains or DC battery or paralleled and series Layden Jars since AC was only after 1883.

Anyways, that's why I indicated to @orthofield that the web page he referenced was confusing as well when compared to Cook.

It is confusing if you look at each core with two coils as a regular transformer. But this design is not a transformer, it is a, hmmmmmm, Looping Gainer, hahahaha, so our own standards just get thrown out the window, since as a gaining device, primary and secondary does not really matter more then the effect obtained. He is basically saying the coil next to the core is the primary.

Maybe Cook was a Kook with intent to Spook. hehehe

wattsup


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Hi Smudge,

Yes, that's a very reasonable explanation for the seeming nodal effect. This particular type of coil, later becoming the Ruhmkorff coil, was mostly used in medicine. I'll try to find an old experiment that shows this nodal effect around an induction coil with a galvanometer to make sure. Or such a test could be done in this forum with Allcanadian's cores.
Even if the nodal effect exists, I'm not sure if it is caused by domain motional effects. There are voltage standing waves in the coil anyway, based on the coil length.

Hi Grumage,

Yes, I agree, putting the thick secondary wire on the outside of the thin primary wire is unusual. But Wattsup is right, Cook does specify this in the patent. Looking at Tesla magnifying transmitter, you do see a large outside wire around a small inside one, but there the outside coil is the primary...so Cook is in effect reversing the pri and sec of the magnifying transmitter setup.

His explanation for using thick secondary wire is:

By this combination the initial secondary current
of the primary helix being very small in quantity in comparison to the terminal secondary
current of the secondary helix offers but little resistance to the terminal secondary, hence
a quicker action is secured ;

This is confusing to me, but I guess it has something to do with reducing the resistance so that the current can grow maximally in the secondary. I found reference to 'small coil' and 'large coil' secondaries in the lit, so still info gathering about that.

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Dear all.

Lets try to clarify this.

I have attached the shocking device picture again. Please note where the handles are coming from. I am surely correct that this coil has the higher turns ratio to create the shock ? Secondary ??

Cheers Grum.


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Dear all.

Lets try to clarify this.

I have attached the shocking device picture again. Please note where the handles are coming from. I am surely correct that this coil has the higher turns ratio to create the shock ? Secondary ??

Cheers Grum.

This device may be a single coil inductor.

You don't need a dual winding transformer to create vigorous shocks and high voltage. With a single inductor coil the flyback voltage can get very high, many times the interrupted voltage applied to the inductor with the rasp and a small battery. Try it and see, but be careful.

Naturally a high turns count secondary would step the voltage up even further.


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Are the metal caps at each end a shorted turn ?
   

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I think the outer is a high turns secondary giving high voltage, low current. If only a single coil the power is stored in the coil as current, it just might kill someone holding on to it :D

regards

mike 8)


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Dear All.

This might sound silly? But I am a little confused.  ???

I see this transformer as having it's primary being the heavier coil with fewer turns and the secondary being the lighter wire and many turns !!  Ah La, the Tesla coil. Whereas you all seem to be saying the other way round, hence my confusion !!

Is it me or is it you ??  ;)

Cheers Grum.

Hi Grum and all
Nice point Grum. When different gauge wire is used there might be better if same weight is being used for both prim and sec. If it is to use same gauge for both, try to keep a wavelength analogy between them. :)    
   
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Hi Grumage,

No doubt the secondary is on the outside. The question was whether the sec. wire was thicker than the primary one. This does seem to be a common practice of the time, to intensify the spark. # 30 SWG is specified in the attached excerpt from radiotelegraphy manual.
I know the basic ideas of induction coils but I am on a steep learning curve as to specifics. It seems to me the more we know about the standard practices of the time, the more we will know about what is different with Cook's concept.


orthofield
   
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Are the metal caps at each end a shorted turn ?

In Davis manual says clearly that a slit across the ring is a must for reducing eddy currents :)
   
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Whoops, sorry for posting the pic twice!

orthofield
   
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Nice pictures orthofield! It is very exciting to see those old fashion coils which might be an answer on Cook's system. What also Davis mention at page 175 of the original paper, is the brass tube between the iron core and the inner coil. The same brass tube Ed. Leedskalin describes for the PMH construction. I started yesterday a more comprehensive research on the same Davis manual about the role of this brass tube. At page 175 and on, a detailed report is written about its use. I'll report if I find something more on this.
   

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Some nice pictures there ortho  O0


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In Davis manual says clearly that a slit across the ring is a must for reducing eddy currents Smiley
Thanks Jeg that explains it then  O0
I found the below picture on that web site which shows the slit when zoomed in.
Hopefully it does not rely on contact with the coil for connection, if it does then that slit wont do much, so they must be careful that the insulation is not damaged on the wire when that ring is fitted, presumably they solder the wire to the cap somewhere.
   
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