Blooper

[exnihiloest]

Could it be created a new board called "blooper"?
It should have a big capacity, tens of topics should be expected every day. Instead of "guaranteed" OU, we could have a lot of guaranteed fun every day

The first I found this morning (on ou.com): a guy want to make a ¼ wavelength antenna for a near Schumann frequency  . For him "3.80ft" is the right length for 7.50Hz .

This very smart and skilled guy obviously knows that the fundamental mode of a Schumann frequency is a standing wave in the Earth–ionosphere cavity with a wavelength equal to the Earth's circumference and he also knows the relation between the frequency and the wavelength. We need him  

[BEP]

Your example is one of the many standard bloopers of extremes.

The standard blooper is one where the ill-informed make ridiculous claims.
The next most common is where the self-proclaimed experts refute the claims of others without being well informed.

It is possible to make an very short length of wire work well as an antenna or coil at very low frequencies. Yes, even in the tens of Hz but the vibration mode becomes more mechanical than inductive.

[TinMan]

Could it be created a new board called "blooper"?
It should have a big capacity, tens of topics should be expected every day. Instead of "guaranteed" OU, we could have a lot of guaranteed fun every day

The first I found this morning (on ou.com): a guy want to make a ¼ wavelength antenna for a near Schumann frequency  . For him "3.80ft" is the right length for 7.50Hz .

This very smart and skilled guy obviously knows that the fundamental mode of a Schumann frequency is a standing wave in the Earth–ionosphere cavity with a wavelength equal to the Earth's circumference and he also knows the relation between the frequency and the wavelength. We need him  

Is this what it has come to?.
This forum is about reserching,replicating and helping those that put forth there device.
Yet you seem to go out of your way to hunt down and laugh at those that are having a go-useing the knowledge they have.
Even to go as far as pulling work's being done from other forum's-then as above^ laugh at them.
All this while sitting in your arm chair-with nothing to show in the way of what you are doing to help the cause that this very forum is here for.

Rather than laugh at other people's efforts-how about helping them?

To make a thread purely to laugh and ridicule other people's work -is a very sad sight indeed.

[Peterae]

tinman you are wasting your time & energy debating with these people, they just like to derail OU research threads so it becomes impossible to do real tests and builds on devices, even when the object is to prove or disprove the device works.

Milehigh & Ex have both tried to derail serious research before by trashing the threads with time wasting posts, in Milehigh's case by the 100's, they both seem to be experts citing OU devices cannot exist and yet they both have no experience on working with such devices.

All day, every day we are reading threads like this instead of doing real research 

[Chet K]

Ex
obviously you experiment [or that's not your bench in the photo] as an experimenter by nature you know there could be more.

We have another experimenter here that sets an amazing example,he also has another gift though, one for explaining why and how.
As a matter of fact his skills are so intuitive he has the ability to teach "big things" or concepts to the "clueless but zealous".

As a matter of fact he even goes so far as to build test rigs for validating measurements to industry protocol. and teaches the
"clueless but Zealous" How to  use them and be productive!

You would be oh so amazed at how fast the "Clueless but Zealous" can become quite "useful"...........

And Grateful...

Thx ION for all you do here,what goes around comes around............

Chet
PS
Exnihiloest there is no doubt you are a brilliant man with a broad understanding ,and no doubt whatsoever that you too can be "useful.".........

[TinMan]

Ex
obviously you experiment [or that's not your bench in the photo] as an experimenter by nature you know there could be more.

We have another experimenter here that sets an amazing example,he also has another gift though, one for explaining why and how.
As a matter of fact his skills are so intuitive he has the ability to teach "big things" or concepts to the "clueless but zealous".

As a matter of fact he even goes so far as to build test rigs for validating measurements to industry protocol. and teaches the
"clueless but Zealous" How to be use them and be productive!

You would be oh so amazed at how fast the "Clueless but Zealous" can become quite "useful"...........

And Grateful...

Thx ION for all you do here,what goes around comes around............

Chet

Yes -a wonderful idea chet-a thanks thread.

My thanks to go's to ION for his help with setting up a bench mark generator for testing aplication's.

My thanks also go's to poynt99.
He took the time to simulate and explain to me what was happening in a circuit i thought had some potential of being OU.
He didnt know me from a bar of soap,but still help'd me out
Cheers

And to the man that is ringing me right now lol-chet
For all your early morning and late night phone calls.

[Allcanadian]

@tinman

Yes -a wonderful idea chet-a thanks thread
He took the time to simulate and explain to me what was happening in a circuit i thought had some potential of being OU.
He didnt know me from a bar of soap,but still help'd me out

I would agree, we have more than enough fools who take great pride in belittling and degrading other's to make themselves feel better. Personally I think we should just ignore these people and concentrate on the best this forum has to offer not the worst. Ion and Poynt99 are a good example in my opinion as well.

On a more constructive note, a small antenna can appear to be very large if the electric field around it is very large and I have found that a primary factor almost never considered is relative humidity. That is the water vapor in the air which is now conducting is an integral part of the "conductor" thus the small antenna is in fact very large. The main problem here is bias and the same potential that makes a small antenna appear very large also creates problems when trying to separate a mV signal from an antenna permanently charged to say 60Kv. I believe this was the purpose of T.H.Morays detector which may have also used a radioactive source to ionize the air.

AC

[Farrah Day]

Rather than laugh at other people's efforts-how about helping them?

But they turn up every other day - how long have you got? I think you will find life's just too short!

To make a thread purely to laugh and ridicule other people's work -is a very sad sight indeed.

I don't know, I think it's a good idea, we all take life far too seriously at times. And let's be totally honest here, some people deserve everything they get... and more.

[PhysicsProf]

Is this what it has come to?.
This forum is about reserching,replicating and helping those that put forth there device.
Yet you seem to go out of your way to hunt down and laugh at those that are having a go-useing the knowledge they have.
Even to go as far as pulling work's being done from other forum's-then as above^ laugh at them.
All this while sitting in your arm chair-with nothing to show in the way of what you are doing to help the cause that this very forum is here for.

Rather than laugh at other people's efforts-how about helping them?

To make a thread purely to laugh and ridicule other people's work -is a very sad sight indeed.

[/b]

Agreed.

For those who use mockery / ad hominems as a major method -- I wonder about their motives -- the scientific method goes out the window IMO.

I also agree with Peterae above... 

[muDped]

I can understand what Ex is trying to accomplish.

Too many of the "newbs" have seemingly adopted
the attitude that "building" alone will provide
miraculous results.  That there really is no need
for intensive study as that will cause the mind to
become locked in to "conventional" understandings
which will hinder the pursuit of the magic.

But trying to introduce reason and caution into the
discussions, along with the need for accurate
measurements is futile.  Until the "newbs" experience
sufficient "learning" in the School of Hard Knocks
(learning by making mistakes) they will resist any
efforts by "intruders" to offer guidance or analysis of
what may be really happening in their "builds."

It's an ages old problem of attitudes and how they
become adjusted with the acquisition of wisdom
through experience.  Stubborn students will in
time learn but they insist on doing things their own
way.

I believe both MileHigh and Ex really do have their
(the newbs) best interests at heart and wish to see
them avoid needless wasting of resources (money
and time) as they pursue their dreams. They're
trying to get the Newbs to LOOK really, really good
before they take any LEAPS.  As in:  "Proper Prior
Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance."

I know, I know...   

[Peterae]

I believe both MileHigh and Ex really do have their
(the newbies) best interests at heart and wish to see
them avoid needless wasting of resources (money
and time) as they pursue their dreams.

Yes but the zillion posts which all amount to the same thing by them just cause the other 99% of people needless reading.
I'm not even sure these people are able to find OU

Let's face it if a noob believes a device is OU without being aware it could be a scam then the noob deserves to find out the hard way, many of us may have been at this stage in the past but we learn fast as we build experience into our research, we get wiser.

Bruce Lee mastered martial arts so well, he was in a position to create a totally new one combining existing techniques from the other existing martial arts, he instinctively created a better system combining the best qualities of previous arts.

The point is that it's virtually impossible to prove a device is a fraud even if the person is very experienced, and you could spend years studying the device and never reach a conclusion, When someone pops up and tries to convince us it's a fraud just by guessing and not spending years covering every angle then it's a waste of everyones time.

Look at the time and effort we have spent on the TPU, it's very easy to say it's a fraud, but many of us still chip away at the clues, and we will until we can definitely say it's a fraud, until that day comes it's not a fraud, the only constructive conversation in between is chatter about how it can be a fraud and the possibilities that it's not and how it may have worked.
There is only one person who is qualified to say it's a fraud and that is SM right now as i see it.

We can all work on gut instinct, personally i understand that we are sourounded by a sea of energy and this alone tells me there is a virtually infinite source of tapable energy.
Is OU possible or a free energy device possible offcourse it is.
We have not yet reached an understanding to allow us to access it, i find it very hard to understand how the best brains on this planet have not yet worked out a solution.
There is not one known expert on earth that we are allowed to know off that can say either way, anyone who says OU is impossible is a fraud, the energy is there we know this.

We all have a lot of learning to do to reach Bruce Lee's instinctive level to allow us to get past our current blockage, the only way forward is researching devices that have existed to gain knowledge.

Researching OU is a tuff game, most of us will die without ever having success, being a failure is not easy, but one thing for sure is that most here are going onto the long list of OU pioneers a bit like a list of ship crew on a ship that discovered a country, one day in the future our names could well be associated with the final solution, the internet is the new log book of history.

[Farrah Day]

Again, far too serious - lighten up boys!

Nothing wrong with a little mockery and belittling, it keeps the charlatans and con-men on their toes... and at the same time sorts the wheat from the chaff.

But, if folk feel the need to hold hands with these people and go skipping merrily up 'the Yellow Brick Road', then I guess that's up to them.  

[ion]

Dumped, Peterae:

Very well stated.

I also sometimes get frustrated when I see very basic errors being made.

I have since given up the internal need to comment / correct every one these.

As you say the "school of hard knocks" will eventually do the job.

I too in life have gotten "knocked" quite a few times, as I was also a stubborn learner, my mind being fixed in quite a few erroneous beliefs.

In PM's I cautioned Milehigh to pick his battles carefully or it would wear him down, and I believe he left the forum out of utter frustration. He was a well grounded teacher of the basics.

There is an old Chinese proverb: "When small men multiply and rule, sometimes it is best to withdraw".

[Farrah Day]

Let's face it if a noob believes a device is OU without being aware it could be a scam then the noob deserves to find out the hard way, many of us may have been at this stage in the past but we learn fast as we build experience into our research, we get wiser.

The thing is it doesn't happen like this does it?

Many so-called' noobs' may never gain the relevant experience or understanding if they totally lack the necessary background knowledge in the first place.  Whether they are the instigator or a follower, he or she will just bumble along with blind conviction, non-the-wiser until they finally lose interest... or money. As I see it, being told what's what by MH or Exn is a far less arduous path that, in the long-run, avoids a lot of wasted time and/or money.

[ion]

To my knowledge, there are differences and similarities between MH and Ex.

Both are very well educated in the normal path, but Ex is actually a builder with a lot of bench experience and has experimented with some far out devices.

Whereas MH, mostly on the forum, was an armchair quarterback pulling from a lot of bench experience , but not willing to try any new ideas.

Ex is willing to critically examine a device and try to find the possible flaws in reasoning regarding it's operation, as is MH

[Allcanadian]

@Ion

Ex is willing to critically examine a device and try to find the possible flaws in reasoning regarding it's operation, as is MH

The problem I see with this approach is that after tearing everything apart and knocking everyone down there is usually not much left to build on. It may be that there is no real progress because there is nothing left, we are not builders we are destroyers which would explain the state of our planet.

As well I have no issue with critical thinking however we should understand it is like running with a pack of wolves, things are good when there is agreement but when they disagree they tend to eat their own.

AC

[BEP]

To make a thread purely to laugh and ridicule other people's work -is a very sad sight indeed.

It is sad for more than one reason. The reason I see is because there is no need. Every thread is potentially a place for such activity unless it is always locked - another thing I hate to see.

If an opposing opinion -or- an educational statement was made and then left up to the rest for consideration then that is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable is the constant repetition of information very well known to most, insults and refusal to look beyond book bindings. 

I would be willing to supply a 'blooper' thread in trade for some restraint in the threads started by others.

[BEP]

If a blooper thread was well managed it could be a great resource.

Just think........ A word of warning for anyone thinking they have something special would be to check for the idea/claim on the now famous OUR Blooper thread........

Maybe that could minimize the repeating claims of OU for shuffling charge from one capacitor to another - magical one transistor oscillators - generators driving the motor driving the same generator, etc., etc. ,etc.

[Peterae]

Don't get me wrong Ex is a great researcher, i may actually owe him a lot of credit for his simple pulsar circuit as this hopefully is going to be the basis of my next build.

Instead of putting energy into a Blopper thread why not create a thread with a list of all known frauds
IE
Romero Motor - Fraud by Romero
Blah Blah

At least then a noob would be able to see immediately a device is a fraud, but beware clear evidence would be needed and this does not exist for many devices, for instance with Hendershot there have been widely publicized replications by the military but no real evidence, but this cannot be ruled out or proven either way so the device must be left alone for more research, one day a piece of info could be found that allows clarification or the truth.

[BEP]

Instead of putting energy into a Blopper thread why not create a thread with a list of all known frauds

I think that would be incredibly difficult. In some cases the debunking is itself a fraud or merely may be considered the actual fraud.

The Mylow fiasco was a good example. I have no doubt his claims were false but the feeding frenzy to debunk him was just as bad as his claims. One of the black thread videos actually showed the thread moving above and below the device support in different views. When I asked how that could be, there was no answer. They had their corpse. They were done.

Maybe a 'How it actually works' thread would be better. Anyone slamming a foolish claim could provide a concise but technical explanation of what really goes on ( once ). 

[exnihiloest]

...
The problem I see with this approach is that after tearing everything apart and knocking everyone down there is usually not much left to build on.
...

There is no problem. That's a chance to be able to reject the lies and the mistakes, this saves time for more promising ideas, except if you really want to build things like a ¼ wavelength antenna at a Schumann frequency. It could be the work of your life! You should begin right now, and inform the group when your first thousand of kilometers is ready. We will encourage you for the nine remaining thousands.  

[exnihiloest]

...
Instead of putting energy into a Blopper thread why not create a thread with a list of all known frauds
...

Many times I have thought to make a site dedicated to the known frauds and to the known absurdities, many of them being endlessly recycled in various forms by free energy henchmen. It's the required time that prevented me to do it. And so, a "Blooper" thread was a different way to possibly get the same results.

I read several ones who bemoan the forms of mockery. They should revise their position. Those who read "The Name of the Rose" from Umberto Eco or saw the film, must remember the power of the laugh. In Eco's story, the bigots fought the laugh (and the skepticism), and this led them to suppress books that could make people laugh, and to commit crimes, for preserving the faith in God. Also in the free energy field, there are bigots. And the bigot want that nobody laugh at his beliefs, even the most ridiculous. The laugh would be a disservice for his posture of guardian of the dogma that he likes to take, as high priest of his flock. The bigot fears the laugh, the laugh is one of the means to show what he really is and how useless is his speech.

So, Peterae, in any case a thread with a list of all known frauds (and mistakes also) would be very useful. I fully agree with your proposition. I just think that forms of mockery, irony, humour and so on can strengthen the speech and make it more pleasant, provided that the intellectual honnesty and the rigour of the argumentation are always kept.

[exnihiloest]

I think that would be incredibly difficult.
...

It depends on the subjects. The one given in my first post was not difficult.
Maybe we could limit the thread to the very easy cases.
Or we could include more subjects, shifting to a thread "likely scams or mistakes", leaving a door open (for example "without proof of this and this, we can consider that it's a scam").

[ion]

 It would be great to have a site dedicated to just that purpose. Here, (at OUR) we try to examine, support or debunk accordingly as they rise to our attention.

I have not the time to create a "clearing house" for all the bad ideas / possible scams etc. that can be found on the web.

Such a site should also include a list of members of the "free energy circuit" (circus?) i.e. those that peddle books,  dvd's and seminars that seem to deliver only technobabble and vaporware.

One could build a tree of such devices showing the many variations that are available on a non-workable schemes. Very time consuming!

Rather, since time and resources are very limited, perhaps we should  concentrate on the most likely to succeed emerging technologies / theories that might lead to our goal of a viable alternative energy device or method and place our energies accordingly.

A consensus of the top three or five best bets would be interesting. Like a reality check, a bit more meaningful than the peswiki site.

[TinMan]

Such a site should also include a list of members of the "free energy circuit" (circus?) i.e. those that peddle books,  dvd's and seminars that seem to deliver only technobabble and vaporware.

Absolutely