Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013

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NerzhDishual

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #25 on: 2013-04-12, 23:40:36 »

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Salve Distinguished Gentlemen,

Yet another Steorn Kinetica demonstration effect (YASKIDEE) or what?

I have the feebleness to 'believe' that Muammer Yildiz is into something (and
also, BTW, that the Steorn all-magnets device had been working (in Dublin)).

Murphy's or William A. Tiller Law(s)?

IMO, the fact that a non-conventional device works in some specific "loaded" location
does not imply that it automatically must work in another "free of kinda 'spelling'" place.

You might consult: http://www.tiller.org/
or even Rupert Sheldrake.

This ain't scientific-official? I do not care...
-------------------
Just a remark, please:
Yes, indeed, tinkering such a nice device with an hammer to start it does not bode well
concerning the credibility of the operator.

What also about these cutting non protected blades?

This aint' good work for us and US. But this is a mere culture shock. Is it not?
I would have some 'culture shock' anecdotes to narrate you but this would be (too) off topic.
------------------------------------
Just one off topic observation and one question, please:

The observation:
We all have noticed, once only or more than once, that some of our email(s) curiously
vanished in some 4th Dimension and not reached our correspondent. No?

The question is to PhysicsProf:
Did you receive my last email (about Monatomic Hydrogen)?

Cordiali saluti a tutti

PhysicsProf	Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #26 on: 2013-04-13, 03:50:30 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3215	I did indeed, Nerzh. Thank you. I'm enjoying reading this insightful writing; still reading and digesting. -Etienne

exnihiloest

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #27 on: 2013-04-13, 10:34:51 »

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Quote from: NerzhDishual on 2013-04-12, 23:40:36

Salve Distinguished Gentlemen,

Yet another Steorn Kinetica demonstration effect (YASKIDEE) or what?

The Steorn's mistake was about the interpretation of what happened, which was conventional. They were wrong about what they infered from the measurement. But there was nothing hidden.
With Yildiz, a conventional explanation can be clearly discarded if the motor runs according to the claim (permanent magnets only). So either there is a real new phenomena or it is a fraud.

Quote

I have the feebleness to 'believe' that Muammer Yildiz is into something (and
also, BTW, that the Steorn all-magnets device had been working (in Dublin)).
...

We know very little about the Yildiz motor. Nevertheless some signs could be considered as fraud. For example it would be easy to rotate an alternator and to easily measure its real output power. Instead Yildiz is using a fan. Its load is alleged to represents hundreds watts while 10 watts can rotate such a fan. Unlike hundreds watts, 10 W only or less is still compatible with a hidden battery. So the experimental evidence is not yet given.

BEP

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #28 on: 2013-04-13, 14:00:10 »

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All - FYI,

"tinkering such a nice device with an hammer to start it does not bode well concerning the credibility of the operator"

The above is a reasonable concern already voice by others.

However, be it known that his actions for starting and stopping the larger motor are visibly and audibly consistent with forcing a bi-stable magnetic latch over the balance point.

There isn't enough proof of claims for me but I think his methods of stopping and starting are just an indication of limited design development & funding.

PhysicsProf

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #29 on: 2013-04-13, 14:56:29 »

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Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013-04-13, 14:00:10

All - FYI,

"tinkering such a nice device with an hammer to start it does not bode well concerning the credibility of the operator"

The above is a reasonable concern already voice by others.

However, be it known that his actions for starting and stopping the larger motor are visibly and audibly consistent with forcing a bi-stable magnetic latch over the balance point.

There isn't enough proof of claims for me but I think his methods of stopping and starting are just an indication of limited design development & funding.

WW -- I appreciate your efforts to look into issues such as this.
May I ask two questions:

1. What do you mean by " forcing a bi-stable magnetic latch over the balance point"?

2. What do you (and others) think of PERENDEV motor concepts?

BEP

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #30 on: 2013-04-13, 23:20:45 »

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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013-04-13, 14:56:29

WW -- I appreciate your efforts to look into issues such as this.
May I ask two questions:

1. What do you mean by " forcing a bi-stable magnetic latch over the balance point"?

2. What do you (and others) think of PERENDEV motor concepts?

The attached PDF shows an example of a bi-stable magnetic latch controlled by electromagnetic impulses into an 'open' and 'close' coil. I think Yildiz is whacking the moving part into and out of position. Each position establishes a different path for the magnetic connection and holds where that connection is made.

I'm convinced that Perendev borrowed 'his' concepts from several other inventors and there isn't enough evidence that the concept would work.

Bi-StableMagLatEx.pdf (305.36 kB - downloaded 322 times.)

exnihiloest	Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #31 on: 2013-04-14, 11:59:20 »
Newbie Posts: 1504	Provided that it's not a fraud, from what I have seen of the motor where magnets are shifted from a circle to the next one, maybe we have a helical magnetic flux. The conservative flux being looped in an unconventional way, something new could happen for magnets following the magnetic path. Even if this is in no way related to Yildiz motor, it could be interesting to study the principle.

d3x0r

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #32 on: 2013-04-14, 12:09:36 »

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The hammer to to release the break; like having a car in park on a hill and releasing the parking brake before taking it out of park, the pin will be stuck, and require some force to disengage.

It's interesting that the motor is 100% raring to go at any point, and only a break engaged stops it. I thought it was similar to a windup device or a motion to get the thing to go, but really it's to overcome the force it's applying since it's already ready to go.

PhysicsProf

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #33 on: 2013-04-14, 12:55:26 »

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Thank you for the reply, WW, and for comments Ex and D3. You surprised me Ex.

This from Sterling's latest blog (from yesterday) shows some dis-enchantment with Yildiz it appears, and some frankness by Sterling:

Quote

Speaking of Mr. Yildiz and the Top 5, his wight [sic?] there is diminishing for the following reasons:

   He's not as close as I had thought to being ready for production.
   It is difficult to work with him; and this is one of the primary reasons he still is not in the market though he's had this technology developed well enough to bring in funding for at least 15 years. There is some good talent coming forward to help him now, which will take the edge off of this weakness; but it is still a significant drawback.
   The motor will not be easy to replicate. Too many magnets, too easy to not get them just right.
   Though it could be good for an open license, the difficulty of replicating will make it less easy to have it go viral.

I'm going to be working on a list of reasons why I think his motor is legitimate. However, it takes a lot more than just a working technology for the technology to be successful in going to market.

Today is the last day of the expo, and again today, no video of Yildiz's machines at the expo, although we had that live feed earlier in the week:
http://www.justin.tv/pesnetwork#/w/5340699200/3

TinMan

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #34 on: 2013-04-14, 13:00:50 »

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Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013-04-14, 12:55:26

Thank you for the reply, WW, and for comments Ex and D3. You surprised me Ex.

This from Sterling's latest blog (from yesterday) shows some dis-enchantment with Yildiz it appears, and some frankness by Sterling:

Today is the last day of the expo, and again today, no video of Yildiz's machines at the expo, although we had that live feed earlier in the week:
http://www.justin.tv/pesnetwork#/w/5340699200/3

It would seem we have another 6 18

---------------------------

Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Verpies	Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #35 on: 2013-04-16, 01:39:58 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4440	Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013-04-13, 10:34:51 The Steorn's mistake was about the interpretation of what happened, which was conventional. They were wrong about what they infered from the measurement. But there was nothing hidden. I did not follow Steorn's Orbo closely and do not know what you mean by that. What was the error in their interpretation of their results?

exnihiloest	Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #36 on: 2013-04-16, 13:45:10 »
Newbie Posts: 1504	@verpies I have replied elsewhere because it's not related to Yildiz. See: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2061.msg30767;topicseen#msg30767

Allcanadian

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #37 on: 2013-04-16, 19:46:37 »

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@PhysicsProf

Quote

He's not as close as I had thought to being ready for production.
It is difficult to work with him; and this is one of the primary reasons he still is not in the market though he's had this technology developed well enough to bring in funding for at least 15 years. There is some good talent coming forward to help him now, which will take the edge off of this weakness; but it is still a significant drawback.
The motor will not be easy to replicate. Too many magnets, too easy to not get them just right.

I have had a little insight into the investment side of technology in the last few years and it is a quagmire to say the least.
Normally the technology is presented to investors and then they fund the technology for a portion of the company shares and future profits. Sounds fair enough however what is not mentioned is the fact that not one dime will change hands until they can be guaranteed the future profits are massive proportional to their small input. Thus were left with the question, how can anyone trust persons who really have no interest in helping anyone other than themselves?... I submit we cannot.

I find it comical that so many people have said in the past that this investor is a good person and he cares about our future and he has a great deal of money. Well if they claim to care so much then why have they not invested one dime towards grass roots research which may help people?. The fact is they are not "good" nor "giving" people they are people who expect a massive return on their investment at any cost, nothing more. We can be sure that as soon as there is no expectation of a large profit they will be leave with their supposed good intentions as fast as they appeared.

As such I think Yildiz holding back control when confronted by a bunch of Aholes waving dollar bills is not a sign of weakness but strength, only a weak mind would sell their soul for profit only to see their dreams shelved because the investors sold the farm. These people have made their true intent perfectly clear not by what they say but by their actions. I have a bad attitude in this respect and generally tell them to kiss my ass and get lost , I would rather give my technology away that have to deal with their BS. If they cannot fund the research then they will not get a chance to invest in anything because they cannot be trusted to do the right thing when it matters the most.

In the last few years I have been involved in quite a few projects which required an NDA and this was fine because I really had no intent to be employed by any corporation no matter what the final result. This makes life very easy for me because I can help and feel good about it while still retaining my integrity. It's kind of comical that most of these bean counters have no real grasp on the concept of integrity as it has nothing to do with power or money but making the right choices and doing the right thing. Securing a technology then grossly overcharging so few can afford it is not what I would call doing the right thing.

AC

« Last Edit: 2013-04-16, 20:33:11 by allcanadian »

---------------------------

Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

PhysicsProf

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #38 on: 2013-04-16, 21:08:21 »

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Quote from: allcanadian on 2013-04-16, 19:46:37

@PhysicsProf
I have had a little insight into the investment side of technology in the last few years and it is a quagmire to say the least.
Normally the technology is presented to investors and then they fund the technology for a portion of the company shares and future profits. Sounds fair enough however what is not mentioned is the fact that not one dime will change hands until they can be guaranteed the future profits are massive proportional to their small input. Thus were left with the question, how can anyone trust persons who really have no interest in helping anyone other than themselves?... I submit we cannot.

I find it comical that so many people have said in the past that this investor is a good person and he cares about our future and he has a great deal of money. Well if they claim to care so much then why have they not invested one dime towards grass roots research which may help people?. The fact is they are not "good" nor "giving" people they are people who expect a massive return on their investment at any cost, nothing more. We can be sure that as soon as there is no expectation of a large profit they will be leave with their supposed good intentions as fast as they appeared.

As such I think Yildiz holding back control when confronted by a bunch of Aholes waving dollar bills is not a sign of weakness but strength, only a weak mind would sell their soul for profit only to see their dreams shelved because the investors sold the farm. These people have made their true intent perfectly clear not by what they say but by their actions. I have a bad attitude in this respect and generally tell them to kiss my ass and get lost , I would rather give my technology away that have to deal with their BS. If they cannot fund the research then they will not get a chance to invest in anything because they cannot be trusted to do the right thing when it matters the most.

In the last few years I have been involved in quite a few projects which required an NDA and this was fine because I really had no intent to be employed by any corporation no matter what the final result. This makes life very easy for me because I can help and feel good about it while still retaining my integrity. It's kind of comical that most of these bean counters have no real grasp on the concept of integrity as it has nothing to do with power or money but making the right choices and doing the right thing. Securing a technology then grossly overcharging so few can afford it is not what I would call doing the right thing.

AC

Well said, AC.
However, as regards NDA's, I'm very leery from having been burned in the past -- and will only sign if it is for a specified SHORT time, not forever.

Allcanadian

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #39 on: 2013-04-16, 22:17:57 »

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@PhysicsProf

Quote

However, as regards NDA's, I'm very leery from having been burned in the past -- and will only sign if it is for a specified SHORT time, not forever.

For sure and it can get a little out of hand unless the ground rules are laid out prior. My thoughts are simple, it is an agreement between friends however if a friend starts dictating terms or overreaching the bounds of the common understanding then obviously they are not a real friend. At this point I would make it clear that the relationship is over and there will be no future correspondence. It may be an NDA but it does not stipulate that I am ever required to speak with them or conduct any business with them again. The moment there is a lack of mutual respect and consideration it ends because life is too short for anything less.

Personally I find it mind boggling that anyone would even get involved with someone they did not consider a friend, why would we? then they can say well it's just business to justify their actions at which time I would point out that it isn't anymore... it's over,lol.

AC

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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

TinMan	Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #40 on: 2013-04-17, 14:13:51 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 5677	Well the yildiz flunk must have been bad.Look what Stirling has draged out of the mud now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Lr-KaN58k Im off to buy an electric boat motor-overunity has been discovered. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

exnihiloest

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #41 on: 2013-04-18, 09:29:20 »

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My today reply to the S Allan's article "35+ Reasons Why I Think Yildiz' Magnet Motor Really Works":

35+ reasons discarded:

"heat": the power for rotating the fan is weak, and the aluminium block is a good heat conductor that quickly dissipates the heat energy, so there is no significant temperature difference.
"Jorge Duarte" faith: he says "I 'know' this works" while he doesn't know why and he didn't duplicate the device. Where are the data of the alleged "240 W" output power while obviously some watts only are needed to rotate such a fan with thin blades oriented almost in the same plane as the rotation? He is more a witness than a scientific investigator.
"Confidence in Muammer Yildiz": not a "reason" but a feeling. A feeling is often misleading.
"Other Personnel References:" not "reasons" but opinions about opinions of others
"The start/stop performance of the motor is consistent with an all-magnet motor": as we have no experience about "all-magnet motors" for the reason that not one alleged PMM has been confirmed, this statement is a pure non sense.
"RPM Data not consistent with electric motor": the not constant speed considered as the sign of a not electrical powered motor, or the question of noise, are a pure wishful thinking, a vague interpretation not even disputable. Electrical motors can have indeed speed or noise variations as observed, for miscellaneous reasons.
"Other claims to all-magnet motors": it's not the number of claims of absurd things that would make a reason for one of them to be real!
"The movement of the smaller motor is consistent with an all-magnet motor": already treated. As we have no experience about "all-magnet motors" for the reason that not one alleged PMM has been confirmed, this statement is a pure non sense.
"There are a number of evidences that show that there are many magnets inside": nobody denies this point, but this point is irrelevant. The presence of permanent magnets don't prove that they are the only cause of the rotation. They are plenty of conventional motors that have permanent magnets.
"Spiritual/psychic/intuitive witnesses": already treated. Not "reasons" but feelings. A feeling is often misleading.

Not one of the given arguments is a "reason" to believe that the Yildiz's motor works. I don't say that it doesn't work, I say that the alleged reasons are by far insufficient to show evidence. They are related to opinions and to biased interpretations. Only a successful duplication by an independent third party, or at least a serious test bench, would be a "reason" to begin to believe that it works.

Allcanadian

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #42 on: 2013-04-18, 18:44:30 »

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@Exn
Good points and as far as I know feelings are not considered an operating parameter. I find one aspect here very interesting and for those who have experimented with all magnet motors they will understand my point.

When experimenting with magnet motors one thing becomes very obvious from the start. Singular fields will cog immediately and come to rest and if we use more magnets the field has simply been made larger and it will always come to rest within one turn unless there is a great deal of inertia in the system. This is because the energy to set it in motion allows it to pass the one turn point but little more.

Now we have a problem, if a magnet motor was to make any more that two full rotations by simply releasing a static braking mechanism which constitutes a position of rest then a force must be present which causes it to rotate more than it should. Now if there is no other conventional motive force such as an electrical system adding energy to the system as a whole and it makes more than a few revolutions then something must have caused this.

The physics involved are simple moments of inertia and moments of force and are easy to understand. In which case the fact that the motor in question even makes more than a few revolutions is miraculous if no other energy source is present. Physics can be funny this way and people can start making things more complicated than they need to be, forget about the fan loading the motor because it is irrelevant relative to the fact that the motor spins for more than a few seconds.

I have experimented with many magnet motors and this one has me stumped because I cannot even begin to form a premise for it's operation. Normally I see something and think ok that could theoretically have some merit but not with this motor. I'm not saying It works as claimed but I do find this example very interesting, more so than any other I have seen.

AC

---------------------------

Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

exnihiloest

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #43 on: 2013-04-18, 21:47:22 »

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Quote from: allcanadian on 2013-04-18, 18:44:30

...
When experimenting with magnet motors one thing becomes very obvious from the start. Singular fields will cog immediately and come to rest and if we use more magnets the field has simply been made larger and it will always come to rest within one turn unless there is a great deal of inertia in the system. This is because the energy to set it in motion allows it to pass the one turn point but little more.
...

I observed the same thing when I was playing with a SMOT. You point here the weakness of the concept of PMM which follows from what academic science says.
At the start point, our permanent magnets have a magnetic potential energy due to their position. The system begins to rotate, the energy being drawn by decreasing the potential energy from the magnets. When the magnets are at the lowest magnetic potential, the system can continue a bit longer due to the mechanical inertia, regaining a little magnetic potential, but they are attracted back and finally they remain blocked in the "sticky" point which is the position of lowest magnetic potential energy. They can sometimes make a supplementary turn if they have been given some supplementary kinetic energy at the start but they end in the sticky point the next turn.

Of course the idea becomes here to change the configuration somewhere and at some moment for the magnets to retrieve their start point. Unfortunately, and it's a general law for potential energy, the change of potential energy from point A to point B doesn't depend on the path. If B is at a lower potential than A, you will need as much energy for going from B to A as you gained from A to B, whatever the path and the changes along the path, only the start and end points are to be taken into account. And if you have not the potential difference, you have no cause for the motor to rotate. Therefore you have finally no cause for going from A to A (same potential) whatever the path through any potential: i.e. the system can't restart itself.

A permanent motor can't work according to the physics laws, consequently if it works, either physics laws are broken, or their is an unknown energy source. It's vain to search for conventional explanations for the Yildiz motor by using the academic knowledge of magnetism. If we suppose that the Yildiz motor works, then we have to be imaginative and search for exotic explanations. One of them could be that some magnetic flux topology could lead to a non conservative magnetic field. There are also the hidden energy sources that are invoked each time OU is claimed (ZPE, cold fusion and so on...).

TinMan	Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #44 on: 2013-04-18, 23:53:54 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 5677	@AC I see what you mean.I would have thought that the rotation would have stoped after one maybe two rotation's,due to the small push he gave it at the start.It dose seem to rotate a little longer than it should. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S46QPophJbo&feature=youtu.be --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Allcanadian

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #45 on: 2013-04-19, 02:09:41 »

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@Exn

Quote

A permanent motor can't work according to the physics laws, consequently if it works, either physics laws are broken, or their is an unknown energy source. It's vain to search for conventional explanations for the Yildiz motor by using the academic knowledge of magnetism. If we suppose that the Yildiz motor works, then we have to be imaginative and search for exotic explanations. One of them could be that some magnetic flux topology could lead to a non conservative magnetic field. There are also the hidden energy sources that are invoked each time OU is claimed (ZPE, cold fusion and so on...).

I would agree, I have built many apparatus relating to PMM and magnetic bearings over the years and really enjoyed it and consider it time well spent. Mind you I was never convinced I would ever succeed at a PMM and I didn't but I learned many things along the way. I guess I'm just old school because I don't think there is any simulator that can replace hands on experience. When a person can see it and feel it then measure it the magnitude of the problem becomes painfully obvious.

I don't know what to think of this motor, 99% thinks there is not a hope in hell this can work but there is always that other 1% telling me ... I just don't know, lol.

Howard Johnson as in the Howard Johnson motor stated that his motor concentrated the magnetic field lines into narrow bands which were then forced to jump from one position to the next due to the bias of the fields present. Now if these field lines snapped into the next position sooner than one would expect due to the field bias and produced a process of continuous instability then maybe a small unidirectional force could evolve.

When I built the Wesley Gary motor I noticed a similar effect in that at a certain position the field made a definite jump from one armature to the next. That is the field did not tend to diffuse into both armatures but preferred one or the other, all or nothing. Of course I never got it working as Mr.Gary claimed however the field properties were very different than many of the other devices I had experimented with.

It's interesting stuff, I'm not totally convinced of anything but it is interesting.

AC

« Last Edit: 2013-04-19, 06:07:18 by allcanadian »

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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

EMdevices

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #46 on: 2013-04-19, 05:34:39 »

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exnihiloest said

I observed the same thing when I was playing with a SMOT. You point here the weakness of the concept of PMM which follows from what academic science says.
At the start point, our permanent magnets have a magnetic potential energy due to their position. The system begins to rotate, the energy being drawn by decreasing the potential energy from the magnets. When the magnets are at the lowest magnetic potential, the system can continue a bit longer due to the mechanical inertia, regaining a little magnetic potential, but they are attracted back and finally they remain blocked in the "sticky" point which is the position of lowest magnetic potential energy...

not correct what you said, because the "sticky" point is at the HIGHEST magnetic potential energy, that's where the strongest magnetic flux exists, and the strongest attraction, so the integral of B*H increases over the flux volume. Remember, with magnets and ferromagnetic materials things are counter-intuitive, they always tend towards increasing their total energy, not decreasing it.

Did you go see the motor in Geneva?

EM

exnihiloest

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #47 on: 2013-04-19, 09:35:11 »

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My reply about the S Allan's article has been sliced and denaturated by comments from the anonymus moderator of the S Allan's site. It's the first time that I observe such a begining of censorship.

I wrote another reply (in blue the old text, in red the moderator's comments, in marroon the new reply):

35+ reasons discarded (reply to comments):
- "Confidence in Muammer Yildiz": not a "reason" but a feeling. A feeling is often misleading.

[Come off it....Business is done everyday based on feelings and judgements]

Non sequitur.
Business is not science. Business is also lies.
Many things are based on feelings and judgements, especially things where the arbitrary makes the law, not the truth. Science is beyond a question of viewpoints, it's a question of "reason" therefore of facts, observation and logic. So we see that "reason" as used in the title of the article, is overrated.

- "The start/stop performance of the motor is consistent with an all-magnet motor": as we have no experience about "all-magnet motors" for the reason that not one alleged PMM has been confirmed, this statement is a pure non sense.

[In fact Sterling has had a lot of dealings with all magnet motors, so this statement is nonsense]

1) An argument of authority is not an argument.
2) If he has a magnet motor that works, he should give us the plans! And if he has not one, then he has no experience in magnet motor for the reason that there is not yet a magnet motor, a not working magnet motor being not a motor.

and so on...

If I accept the free speech, I consider that to publish a reply denaturated with inside comments by an anonymous author is an unfair method and a kind of censorship.
Please would the moderators reply in separate comments if needed.

exnihiloest

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #48 on: 2013-04-19, 10:13:40 »

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Quote from: EMdevices on 2013-04-19, 05:34:39

...
not correct what you said, because the "sticky" point is at the HIGHEST magnetic potential energy,
...

Yes of course, it's like the gravitational potential energy, the "sticky" point is the top of the hill, the HIGHEST gravitational potential energy, where the ball remains blocked, it's not the bottom of the valley towards which it could roll...

An interesting thing with EM's posts is that the nonsenses are in capital letters, we save time.

exnihiloest

Re: Yildiz motor on public display in Geneva 10-14 April 2013 « Reply #49 on: 2013-04-19, 10:44:18 »

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Quote from: allcanadian on 2013-04-19, 02:09:41

...
I guess I'm just old school because I don't think there is any simulator that can replace hands on experience. When a person can see it and feel it then measure it the magnitude of the problem becomes painfully obvious.

I agree.

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I don't know what to think of this motor, 99% thinks there is not a hope in hell this can work but there is always that other 1% telling me ... I just don't know, lol.

I also really don't know, there are not enough elements to get an opinion.

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Howard Johnson as in the Howard Johnson motor stated that his motor concentrated the magnetic field lines into narrow bands which were then forced to jump from one position to the next due to the bias of the fields present. Now if these field lines snapped into the next position sooner than one would expect due to the field bias and produced a process of continuous instability then maybe a small unidirectional force could evolve.
When I built the Wesley Gary motor I noticed a similar effect in that at a certain position the field made a definite jump from one armature to the next. That is the field did not tend to diffuse into both armatures but preferred one or the other, all or nothing. Of course I never got it working as Mr.Gary claimed however the field properties were very different than many of the other devices I had experimented with.

It's interesting stuff, I'm not totally convinced of anything but it is interesting.

AC

I agree also. It's not convincing. What we observe is only magnets following the path where they are the more attracted. The field topology of some devices being not obvious, this can be sometimes baffling, but neither Johnson nor Gary have shown evidence that something else would happen. I don't say that the "other 1%" that you mentionned is impossible, it's a window towards the unknown that we must keep open, but we really need much stronger experimental evidences than the ones proposed until now.