Forum ethics and aetheric pseudo-science [why I interrupt my activity here]

[Peterae]

Hi Tinman
Well done on the website 

We also have all the topics on the home page as well

[TinMan]

Hi Tinman
Well done on the website 

We also have all the topics on the home page as well

Hi Peterae
Yes i guess this one is much the same,but with the !!being talked about now!! thread's on the front page.As you can see,this thread has pretty much taken up the log-in page-unless you scroll down to find the topic is that you were interested in or partaking in.

In regards to Ex-like me or hate me,he was not often wrong with what he said.Yes i know he may have pushed peoples wrong buttons(i was one of them),but the more you look-the more you see.
If i thought that i had an OU device,Ex would be one of the people here i would be asking to take a look at what i had,as he can see thing's that i could very well miss.Some time's we want to see something so bad that we can overlook some things to get the results we want.Ex is some one that see's what is,and not what we wish it could be.I know he at time's was disruptive,but i was seen as being the same on UFOpolotics thread when i questioned his test method's-he even asked me to leave his thread.But my guess is that UFOpolotics is still pumping gas into his car,and still paying his electric bill-and what of all those people that bought those kits that were expecting an OU device?.An expensive lesson that could have been avoided for many if testing was carried out correctly.

The one thing i cant agree on with Ex,is that out of all the forum's i am a member of-this one would have to be the best by far(excluding IAEC of course lol.)
Good job guy's.

Brad

[GibbsHelmholtz]

If you actually trying to understand the aether drawing... you might not be smarter than a 5th grader. lol  It's refreshing because... thinking is futile.

If Einstein or Maxwell read pseudo science, how would they react?  I think they are just as happy as not reading them. lol  I also believe their state of mind is what made things blossom in their time. 

[PhysicsProf]

I'm looking forward to doing more experiments on the electrolysis approach of Woopy/Tinman/etc.  -- but for now, this equipment is packed away as our family is making a BIG move to another state, Missouri.  Great work, Tinman and Woopy!  progress...  

Also packed up are the Davey-bell "best" equipment I have been experimenting with, also electrolysis-oriented, Tesla coils (FIVE now packed I think, lots of fun), blocking oscillator systems too numerous to mention.  Gegene induction cooktop -- packed up and ready to go.  I hope by the end of next week to be unpacking all this gear.  Magnets, toroids, oscilloscope -- packed.

Its a big move, involving my wife and I and four of our children, hence the time requirements are major, prepping cars/trailer, selling or giving away stuff, etc.

Cheers for now -- and thanks to Poynt, Peter, Ion et al. for a great forum.

[Peterae]

Good luck with the move PP safe journey 

[Allcanadian]

@Gibbs

If you actually trying to understand the aether drawing... you might not be smarter than a 5th grader. lol  It's refreshing because... thinking is futile.

I agree thinking is futile and whenever I do it I try not to think about it.

[GibbsHelmholtz]

Hi AC,

I say that because "it's out of my league".  It doesn't mean everyone is the same.  You never know.

[Allcanadian]

@Gibbs

I say that because "it's out of my league".

Oh, I was responding because I'm not much smarter than a 5th grader, hence my agreement lol.

[PhysicsProf]

 Side note:  My work on cold fusion pre-dates learning about Pons and Fleischmann by years -- see my historical note here:  http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/131history.html   

I urged P&F to NOT call their anomalous heat "FUSION" -- it is not d-d fusion that generates that much heat since there are not COMMENSURATE fusion products.  That was and is my argument, physics-based and not ad hominem.  Martin Fleischmann agreed with me finally, saying it was a mistake to call the excess heat "fusion" in the first place, may he rest in peace (he passed away last year).

As I have said, I accept that there is a strongly-evidenced anomalous heat effect -- but my physics-based conclusion was and is that this heat is not due to d-d fusion.

Slides from the seminar I gave on alternative energy at the University of Missouri in Oct. 2012:

http://pesn.com/2012/11/19/9602225_Steven_Jones_replica--Pons_and_Fleischmann_XS_Heat_not_from_fusion/StevenJonesSeminarAtUnivMissouriOct2012.pdf

There is a conference on these topics to be held July 2013 at the same - University of Missouri.  Will any of you be there?

[Peterae]

MH it was not me that deleted your account, i assumed you did that, it only gets auto deleted having given you 3 emails and 3 warnings.

I was not saying you are a bad person, i respect the way you act on your believes, but they caused me endless problems here, the threat of legal action by Juan you know who.

Acting on gut instinct is not enough to locate a fraud, what you seemed to fail to see is that we both work on the same side, the difference being that we try experimenting to find the fraud or principle of operation, i built the Romero motor and i am not bitter that it turned out a fraud, one thing for sure all that worked to dissect it conclusively proved it be a fake and that was the only thing that closed Him down in the end.

PS it's nice to see you use your skills to help disseminate instead of attack and cause trouble, no bad feelings here by me to you  I will stop mentioning yourself and Ex. 

[evolvingape]

I don't have a problem with Milehigh, it is rare that I disagree with what he says, not well read on his posts of late though I admit. The community as a whole is jam packed full of scammers and delusional's and the cr@p they trot out is enough to make you puke. If I wasn't so busy working on new tech I would be spending more time on the dross, pointing out the errors and deliberate lies with facts and references, but I just don't have the time. For my own sanity that is probably a good thing!

Rob

[Peterae]

Much better to put time in on finding a solution to our energy crisis than fight scammers IMHO 

[GibbsHelmholtz]

Oh, I was responding because I'm not much smarter than a 5th grader, hence my agreement lol.

When you realized you're not much smarter than a 5th grader... you are smarter than a 5th grader. lol

[ion]

I have to agree with MH, there is a carnival of criminals out there trying to sap money out of the uninitiated with vaporware.

Then there is also the carnival "barker" that gets free vacations from the well meaning crowd and will continue to put a positive spin on the collective criminals work as long as he can keep the game in play. It's very lucrative.

I'm glad that MH has the time and energy to challenge and expose some of this stuff, it is a needed clearinghouse with so much junk parading as science out there. It wastes our time and diverts us from real work if we choose to give it our attention. Sometime the tail wags the dog.

If one were to start such a forum clearinghouse, MH, Humbugger and EX would be among my top picks for the job.

[Peterae]

It's not easy fighting these scammers on a website and this is why, say OUR has a member that openly post's about a well known person and this person makes a living from selling books about the Aether and how their device works and the OUR member starts saying his books and working principles are wrong and fake, this legally damages the potential income of the scammer, so who's the one that ends up in court is it

a) the scammer
b)the member that stated the person is running a scam
c)the forum owner.

well this is what would happen, the scammer writes a letter to the forum and asks for the info to be taken down otherwise they will have no choice but to take some form of action.
and if then the forum owner refuses, there are 2 possibilities, the scammer can take legal action against the forum for damages against their income, or much easier the scammer can get the hosting company of the forum to suspend the hosting.

Firstly the forum would now be shut down, the hosting company dont like damage actions so to protect themselves they leave the onus on the forum admin to prove the scammer is indeed a scammer.
A liable case would be opened against the forum owners and with no real evidence to prove the scammer really is a scammer they would be responsible for court costs and financial damages of the scammer.

Now this may sound far fetched to many, but this is happening all the time, and it happens in the blink of an eye.

So to put it mildly there is no way any forum can allow someone to openly dispute a claim against a scammer without real proof that stands up in a court of law.


If someone is intent on stopping scammers then they should ring the Police  not start loud mouthing about it on a forum.

[ion]

I agree, it is a difficult position for forum owners. There does not seem to be a viable solution.

[Allcanadian]

@Peterae

So to put it mildly there is no way any forum can allow someone to openly dispute a claim against a scammer without real proof that stands up in a court of law.

As it should be in my opinion, we cannot apply one rule to one person but not the other as this is the basis of modern law. I think it makes sense otherwise we could have anyone acting as both judge and jury without justification in which case the truth or proof may as well be called opinion or marketing hype.
The real question is who is to say who is a scammer and who is not, who has absolute undeniable proof which would hold up in a court of law?.

A good example is Down Wind faster than the Wind and almost every expert on the planet said it was a scam or fraud ... and every single one of them was completely wrong. I have a great deal of respect for those that stand up for the truth and work towards gathering real facts versus those who like to state their opinion as fact without proof of anything. They are a dime a dozen and cheaper on Friday's.

AC

[Chet K]

Peterae
Sometimes we lose sight of the consequences that can arise from our behavior,whether with good intentions or not!!
thank you for the reality check ,not far fetched in the least.

Most here post thru an anonymous venue,and as such are fairly isolated from liability [sort of]The forum owner does not have this luxury,and is responcible for all.......


@Peter
We all appreciate what you are doing here,and I suppose the solutions for a lot of these issues lay  ultimately in cooperation and respect.

thx
Chet