Tinman's split toroid experiments...

[Chet K]

Grum
That looks more evolved than MK1. [actually closer to His Mk2]

Design number one is a clear poly tube approx 3 inch diameter x 1 foot long sealed at one end and a rubber diaphram attached to the other end [to allow considerable movement].
  Inside the tube he has  20 ML of water sitting in ...I suppose a teaspoon sized cavity[at the bottom] which has the two electrodes in it.
he also has two **"polarity" coils outside the tube on each side of the "event cavity".a microwave oven Tranny and magnetron are part of a series circuit with the coils and the electrodes all fires in one 20MS pulse.

Thats the main part of the build.....................hopefully more detail will follow for component placement
and specs.

from there he goes to a rachet /crank which runs off the diaphram.

Personally I would just like to play with the main body with some method to measure torque being generated Versus input power .

It sounds like a fun little test bed to start from.

**Coils ar opposite polarity and it is alleged that these create an atraction to help pull the IONs apart during the "Fire pulse"....?
Brad did say it works without them however much better with them [the coils]
?
We shall see?
thx
Chet












.

[PhysicsProf]

Chet:

**Coils ar opposite polarity and it is alleged that these create an atraction to help pull the IONs apart during the "Fire pulse"....?
Brad did say it works without them however much better with them [the coils]

Observations like this one are very important IMO - to help scale up the effect and ultimately to understand it.

Tinman often comes up with good observations and progress!
I'd be interested in attempting a replication if he is willing ti provde a bit more detail, and would like to help where I can, perhaps add some observations.

Good stuff!

[Chet K]

Steve
I'll be calling him on Sunday  {later tonight my time]

Is anybody else having a problem getting  OU.com ?
The main forum has been out here for about 12 hrs?
thx
Chet

[Centraflow]

Hi All

This is my proposed idea, a separate pdf is being written at the moment to explain the electronics etc, also the N52 magnet at 90 degrees with ref: to scientific papers on increased gas and efficiency. You will note that the water splitting is running off a 25mhz wave generator, this will be explained as well, just give me time to write it all

regards

Mike

[Chet K]

Mike
It will be very interesting to play with this simple test bed.there are sooo many ideas that we could throw at that little test chamber  and see real time immediate results !

This is so very interesting even the opportunity to play with small vacuum environments could be brought into play [Perhaps the reason for your Bleed/vacuum screw]?

@ I did speak with Sterling again He was most impressed with you and hoping you would join him
if he does go to Spain,   apparently  he has quite a few folks that meet once a week to discuss things
I can only imagine that the group wants Sterling to go too?  He mentioned that the "Top" five on the list were all scheduled for special treatment and personal visits??

I mentioned once again that I felt this was a waste of resources and that a more effective model for investigation could be developed,.....he wants me to sit in with his group meetings .

I will never forget what a Purchasing agent once told me  at a religious acc't I called on as a kid
it was the Watchtower world headquarters in NYC They own unbelievable pieces of NYC realestate [Jahovah witness].

I was saving them a small fortune with a design I had brought to Him but he still wanted to beat me up
on the costs...I was Quite perterbed,However his statement to me that "Little old ladies went door to door raising money a nickle at at time" for the group.

That Left an impression on me ,he was accountable for his position and his use of the hard earned resources that were shared,in his world there was no other option....


I feel the same accountability needs to work its way into Sterling's Group...
He may not like me too much if I do sit in on his meeting.......

I suspect the "Group" may have quite a bit of influence on what ultimately happens there?

I told him I would give it some thought.

Thx
Chet

[Centraflow]

OK noted Chet,

The vacuum set screw is to set the vacuum to start with, will not work without, it is part of the way the water splits with the magnet and the RF. It is set when setting up the system by pushing down on the diaphram and letting pressure out, the screw closed and when you release the diaphram you create a vacuum inside.

All will be explained later. You can also build two sets to one flywheel working at 180 degree firing which will give twice the torque

regards

Mike

[Centraflow]

P.S. I got the impression that he might be going to Abu Dhabi as he is talking to the guy there!!!

As I have explained, I don't think we will get to test anything, just a demo like the video. I get the impression scientists are not welcome  and told him to introduce me another way if possible, I have also offered to put him up here of course

regards

Mike

[Centraflow]

To give you some idea, here is a patent for you to read, I can tell you this works but better is RF and not acoustics or IR. The water MUST BE DISTILLED or it will not work.
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20120097550
regards

Mike

foregot link, sorry

[Centraflow]

The RF is capacitively coupled causing the following:-

Initially, the potential at the cathode is sinusoidal with an average value of 0V and peak to peak value up to supply volts. As the potential at the
cathode begins to go positive, a cascade caused by secondary ionizations appears and the highly mobile electrons collide with the cathode, lowering its potential and
therefore causing a potential across the capacitor between the cathode and RF supply. The ions are accelerated away from the cathode, but the distance on they
move is negligible before the field reverses direction. On the next half cycle, the cathode begins to be negative and electrons are accelerated away, increasing in this
way the value of the negative potential. The cathode becomes negative for most of the cycle and ions are accelerated towards it for most of the time. Due, therefore, to
the higher mobility of the electrons, over subsequent cycles the cathode acquires a DC bias consistent with the flux of electrons and ions to the cathode being equal in
subsequent half cycles.

Regards

Mike

[Centraflow]

Other than using "RF" here is another way it can be done, this infact is how Meyer's system worked, no mistery, the rest is another matter


Regards

Mike

[Chet K]

Mike
post #33 mentions a patent to view [no link].

This is very exciting.....

thx
Chet

[Centraflow]

Mike
post #33 mentions a patent to view [no link].

This is very exciting.....

thx
Chet

Sorry, now corrected

[PhysicsProf]

It's great to see you working on this again, Mike!   

Between you and Tinman, we should have some exciting things to experiment with here...

About Tinmans results, see if I understand correctly. 
Generator delivering 3.25 W for 416 hours (when Chet talked to him) -- that's 1,352 W-h (multiplying).

But the initiating battery is 12 V rated for 7 A-hours.  Multiplying, battery has a capacity of 84 W-h.
Thus the output energy is MUCH (16x) larger than the rating on the input battery!  plus the voltage on the input battery has not dropped significantly...

These are astounding results, if I've understood correctly what Tinman is saying.

[Chet K]

Steve
Yes that is amazing and also accurate [416 hrs 3.25 watt load back to battery] of course this is not the limit ,just how he logs run time to date.
Quite sure he will be raising that run time number.....

I will be calling Brad in about 3hrs [10 AM his time] I don't want to call too early on his only day off.

thx
Chet

[Chet K]

Well
Its even more amazing than I realized,Brad is harvesting energy from the outside of the device with a pickup coil during the "Event" [more than half the power].

However I will let him explain from here on out ,
I will be calliing Peter in the AM [about 7hrs from now]to send Brad his Reup papers for freedom energy.

very exciting indeed..........

Thx
Chet

[Grumage]

Hi All

This is my proposed idea, a separate pdf is being written at the moment to explain the electronics etc, also the N52 magnet at 90 degrees with ref: to scientific papers on increased gas and efficiency. You will note that the water splitting is running off a 25mhz wave generator, this will be explained as well, just give me time to write it all

regards

Mike

Dear Mike.

If I have understood your drawing correctly this design is more akin to the Sterling cycle ??  A fixed quantity of  working fluid continuously being recycled through the expansion / contraction phases??

I have one simple question does the water have to be replenished over time??

Cheers Graham.

[Chet K]

Brad will be going by the name AquaTech

Very good indeed............

Chet
PS For clarity
"House rules" apply ,What's said here stays here until  otherwise decided.
as you know Brad has a special date for releasing this.
people who can read here [alphabetical] [All moderators ION POYNT PETERAE]

AquaTech [Brad]
Centraflow
Grumage
itsu
Magluvin
PhysicsProf
Slyder

And Me
thx
Chet

[Itsu]

I am glad you guys are already very excited about this, i for the moment refrain
from any comments until i know something more then what i have read here up till now.

Hopefully i will be as excited then as you guys.


Regards Itsu

[Centraflow]

Dear Mike.

If I have understood your drawing correctly this design is more akin to the Sterling cycle ??  A fixed quantity of  working fluid continuously being recycled through the expansion / contraction phases??

I have one simple question does the water have to be replenished over time??

Cheers Graham.

Hi Grum

Apart from a possible leak, the water does not have to be replaced and it is distilled water for the purpose of the way it is split, which also secures a clean system.

This works in a reactive motion of:-    explosive pulse + reactive contraction,  H2O<H2+O2 + spark<explosive wave>reactive contraction>H2O, please note the direction arrows, the spark gives the energy gain through an explosive wave, this reaction then creates water again which results in a contraction back to the original vacuum that we started with. Ideally the vacuum to start with should have an inert gas such as argon, this is like the PAPP engine but simpler.

The thing is with the type of water breaking system, it only works under vacuum, so no control is needed for gas production, it is self regulating. Vacuum=gas=pressure=no gas+spark=vacuum again and more gas and so it goes on. The explosion of HHO has a concussive effect before the contracting reaction product of returning to water. As long as you can split a small amount of water with little energy you will have a gain, there are next to no losses with this.

regards

Mike

[Grumage]

Dear Mike.

Ok, so it is quite like a sterling cycle engine, but working on a negative pressure differential.

Having read your remarks a few times over, would it be advantageous to provide the cylinder with a water jacket to increase the speed at which the water recombines ??

Cheers Graham.

[Centraflow]

Dear Mike.

Ok, so it is quite like a sterling cycle engine, but working on a negative pressure differential.

Having read your remarks a few times over, would it be advantageous to provide the cylinder with a water jacket to increase the speed at which the water recombines ??

Cheers Graham.

Nope, don't think so. I see where your going but if you look at the volume difference between water "be it vapour or not" and hydrogen and oxygen formed from that water, you will see a huge difference. Unlike a sterling engine we are not using heat, it is a pressure/vacuum volume differential at ambient temperature, heat is not needed to create expansion and depending on the volume of water in the system, it probable will not get very warm. Time will tell as I have not built this yet, but see no reason at all that it will not work as designed, lets face it, it is a very simple design with a new angle to the term combustion of water

regards

Mike

[Grumage]

Dear Mike.

I post this reply with a broad smile !! 

When you really think about the cycle it is, as you said an expansion and contraction. The only difference, as I see it, is that heat is not used to expand the working fluid !! Otherwise they are exactly the same.

My thoughts now move onto the reasoning behind the use of a Sprag clutch rather than a simple crank. If the piston stroke could be fully ascertained then there would be an area of Dwell over TDC and BDC. I could envisage an advantage here where the dwell could allow for a marked increase in vacuum thereby an increase in atmospheric pressure acting on the down stroke !!

I have designed and built a few Atmospheric engines and the "Inverted design" wins hands down over the conventional arrangement !!

Cheers Graham.

[Centraflow]

Hi Grum

When you really think about the cycle it is, as you said an expansion and contraction. The only difference, as I see it, is that heat is not used to expand the working fluid !! Otherwise they are exactly the same.

Yes apart from here there is an explosion from the spark

My thoughts now move onto the reasoning behind the use of a Sprag clutch rather than a simple crank. If the piston stroke could be fully ascertained then there would be an area of Dwell over TDC and BDC. I could envisage an advantage here where the dwell could allow for a marked increase in vacuum thereby an increase in atmospheric pressure acting on the down stroke !!

Agreed, but there are problems here as to the incredibly fast change from positive to negative force TDC "super lumina"   as I recall Brad saying some time back and I agreed with his explanation.
All things being equal "no losses" the vacuum should return to it's start value (water to gas "not vapour", gas to water). I have been playing around in my head of using two pistoms and a beam assembly but still a one way bearing, pushing and pulling at the same time, twice the torque and so a bigger flywheel to run a bigger generator

Best regards

Mike

[Chet K]

Well
I am happy that Brad is a member of this board now ,I know that He is very busy with his life and perhaps concerned with getting distracted by another commitment.

He mentioned a simple experiment a few months ago which has to do with harvesting electric power from the combustion event which is running this engine.[at no apparent cost ??]

To me that is the perfect place to start experimenting ,I will give him a call on the weekend
to discuss this [unless he posts it in the mean time ,as this was primarily what he wanted to share here].

thx
Chet

[TinMan]

Hi Guy's

Well It's great to be back,and i will try and get thing's up and going as time permit's.My new job involves long hour's,so some weeks i may not be able to get to much up on the board.

Im not sure if you all want to start a clean thread on this subject(the water engine),or just continue on,on this thread?.

Reading some of centraflow's post,i see he has the basic setup of my first prototype. The second larger engine is based around a short srtoke crank,insted of the sprag clutch-but that will come later.

So befor we go any further,i will wait to see if you all wish a clean thread,or just continue on here?

Cheers
\Brad