collector

[darkspeed]

Assuming that the magnetic field was rotating would it make more sense to drag the field along the length of a wire ( horizontal collector) or to drag it over a wire at 90deg (vertical collector) ?

[szaxx]

Hey DS
I sent a post on OU.Com an age ago and said exactly this in bold. No immediate answer as one may expect but DC out on the faraday unit sorta does this.  Squeeze the hose by longitudinal compression, great idea and lets call it magnetoStriction. Better still lets stay inside the box and safely get nowhere.
Astronaut or astronomer, wearing the shirt or window shopping or man or mouse. We here mostly touch the stars and for an unfortunate few a burning we get.
After classing all replicators as dare devils and heroes is this the missing link?
Attention held someone here knows something to end the game. As has been posted very recently a thread on unexpected anomolies or observations needs proposing or maybe doing.
What do you think?

[Grumpy]

between 45 and 90 degrees based on precession as a requirement

[darkspeed]

between 45 and 90 degrees based on precession as a requirement

That is what i was thinking..

I was going back through the pdf with the alleged letters from SM and trying to see what added up.

If the magnetic component motion was circular in th X axis then the collectors should be vertical

and...

If the magnetic component was ( a-la-tesla ) pulsing up and down in the Y axis then the collectors should be horizontal

Unless....

The collectors needed to be 90 deg to the resonator to resonantly decouple them so as not to throw the frequency way off when someone touched the outer windings ( collectors )


.

[darkspeed]

Ok all you smart people....

What is the output difference between A and B? and why?

In fig A as the magnetic crosses the first wire do the other seven become the load on the output of wire one?

[Peterae]

Just a thought, maybe you should try asking if it's possible to make all the other wires appear momentarily open circuit
http://members.tm.net/lapointe/Marx_Theory.html

[darkspeed]

Just a thought, maybe you should try asking if it's possible to make all the other wires appear momentarily open circuit
http://members.tm.net/lapointe/Marx_Theory.html

Peterae - interesting idea...

Did you ever see the litz tank i built?

I am trying to figure out if there is not one diode per conductor if they will null a portion of each other.

If you look at Fig A as a gas dynamic and think of the diodes as check valves, then the pressure is distributed ( diluted) , but in Fig B the pressure is isolated.

[the_big_m_in_ok]

...I am trying to figure out if there is not one diode per conductor if they will null a portion of each other.
If you look at Fig A as a gas dynamic and think of the diodes as check valves, then the pressure is distributed ( diluted) , but in Fig B the pressure is isolated.

Having seen the .jpg drawing in reply post #4, a theoretical question comes to my mind: looking at Fig A, with the apparent 'pressure(voltage?) distributed' would this also apply to a high voltage diode string rectifying a square/sine wave with voltage distributed across all diodes equally?  Wait.  Those diodes I just mentioned would be in series, not parallel.  That being so, in Fig. A, voltage could then vary across individual wires.  This could be why multiple push-pull parallel transistor sets in inverters each has a base resistor to itself.

Also, in photovoltaic solar panel arrays, each module always has a blocking diode to itself to prevent battery drain at night.  But, in that case, power spikes can burn out a single diode in an array unless the diode is big enough to handle the total power output---which can be relatively expensive.

[Peterae]

Hi Ds
No i dint think i have seen your litz Experiment, do you have a link?

It's difficult to imagine he used a diode for each collection wire if there were indeed 1000's of parallel collector wires, each diode would need to be rated to carry the output power level or at least shared between a few at a time, i would only use more collectors if they all worked at the same time this way you increase your output level and spread it across the whole bunch of them, so if say a 1000 wires were in parallel then a field would be needed to sweep all 1000 at the same time or if a field could be produced to sweep maybe a quarter of the circumference then at least each quarter could be isolated and have a diode.

A question how would he be able to put the wires in series, to do this he would need a return leg back to the other side and this would cancel any induced potential, unless the return leg was outside of the inducing field area or magnetically shielded maybe.

Peter

[darkspeed]

Each wire end has two 1kv diodes + -

660 strands per wire

i use it for looking for small signals

[darkspeed]

Hi Ds
No i dint think i have seen your litz Experiment, do you have a link?

It's difficult to imagine he used a diode for each collection wire if there were indeed 1000's of parallel collector wires, each diode would need to be rated to carry the output power level or at least shared between a few at a time, i would only use more collectors if they all worked at the same time this way you increase your output level and spread it across the whole bunch of them, so if say a 1000 wires were in parallel then a field would be needed to sweep all 1000 at the same time or if a field could be produced to sweep maybe a quarter of the circumference then at least each quarter could be isolated and have a diode.

A question how would he be able to put the wires in series, to do this he would need a return leg back to the other side and this would cancel any induced potential, unless the return leg was outside of the inducing field area or magnetically shielded maybe.

Peter

If the magnetic field is what i think it is it may be very narrow - but probably not narrower than one strip of 26 conductor ribbon cable... I was just thinking of all possible amplification

[Peterae]

It also leaves us in a quandary as to where the OU part comes into play if it is indeed straight induction and collection with some rotation involved, so little real info is known.
One interesting clue that no one has mentioned is the magnetic shadow effect and that he destroyed loads of magnets to study it, this could well be the underlying mode of OU production, i believe he hinted at some technical papers in a university library or something, never heard anything about this effect yet is probably the most important aspect.
Even more annoying if SM is still alive i bet one of the Ouers lives within a stones throw of him somewhere without knowing, very frustrating having poor pictures/ videos and no verified technical data of mode of operation.

[darkspeed]

There were a lot of magnets in those videos...

There was mention of iron wire..

if you were able to sample a magnets energy at thousands of times per second it would really add up...

this has always bothered me

There was a Russian a long time ago that was using a tesla coils resonant pulse to disrupt ( turn off ) a magnets field.. i will see if i can find the info..
If you could turn a magnet on and off at 35khz that would be something!!

[wattsup]

@darkspeed

I have 200 feet of 1650 strands of 44 awg wire ordered from New England Wire. It is a 12 awg equivalent that I think is on the FTPU outer ring. I need to do some more tests in that direction. Will cost about $300 landed. If "wire is very important", this should quality. lol

I brought up the single dioding to parallel dioding question on OU.Com also. On your Litz build you mention your diodes are 1kv rated but I think this is too much. I will be doing the same type of build but the diodes will be germanium so instead of requiring .7 volts, all you need is .2 volts. That's 333% less energy required to pass the diode right there. Otherwise, that .7 volts will still create the same effect of mutual wire to wire induction.

In your Fig A, when that magnet passes the first wire, the total wire system is energized. If in Fig B your diodes require .7 volts, then that total wire scheme will be buffered by the diodes until you have more then .7 volts. When you reach above .7 volts, that diode will act like a zenor diode in that condition because you are always going from zero upwards. But if in Fig B your diodes are germanium, then as soon as any small energy is available, it will pass and not be able to stay in the total grid, thus it will provide less total Lenz condition. Sorry if my thinking is low level but that's the way i see it.

Also, with a magnet over a wire, depending on how the magnet polarity is coming out, well either way, you do not want any of the poles to be perpendicular to the wire because let's say you use the north pole, it will send the field in both directions over the wire and this will result in a cancellation effect. All you want, well all you really need is 1/2 of one polarity, then 1/2 of the other polarity if the magnet is spinning. If it is traveling over a wire, you just need 1/2 a polarity. Actually a spinning magnet should have 4 (or multiples of 4) pick up coils to maximize the spin-to-energy-output potential. Otherwise you are turning a magnet with energy and not maximizing the potential return. If the magnet is turning on its blotch wall axis, I think the best pick up coil will be many bifilar wound coils with one diode on one coil and another diode on the other coil but on the other side. So one of the bifilar picks up the north field and the other picks up the south field and none will hold the charge so the charges leaves the system as it is produced. Hard to explain with just words.

[Grumpy]

pretty sure conventional EM induction is not a factor

Look at a battery, or even the photoelectric effect - no induction just conversion

[MileHigh]

Wattsup:

Actually a spinning magnet should have 4 (or multiples of 4) pick up coils to maximize the spin-to-energy-output potential. Otherwise you are turning a magnet with energy and not maximizing the potential return.Actually a spinning magnet should have 4 (or multiples of 4) pick up coils to maximize the spin-to-energy-output potential. Otherwise you are turning a magnet with energy and not maximizing the potential return.

This is actually a popular misconception.  Let me give you the train of thought.  This is about pure classical induction, not sure if your real discussion is about this exactly, but it is worth mentioning anyways.

We assume the spinning magnet is getting its energy from some other source, it could be a pulsing drive coil or some other source of mechanical energy.

Now you look at the case of two vs. four pick-up coils.  In either setup the pick-up coils have to drive some sort of an electrical load.  So you could have a setup where each coil outputs 10 units of power into the load.  With two coils you have 20 units of power and with four coils you have 40 units of power into the load.

However, you can just as easily have the two-coil setup outputting 2 x 20 = 40 units of power into the load, which would be equal to the previously mentioned four-coil setup.

The important point is that more coils can certainly increase your power output as compared to two coils, but you can't get more energy out of the spinning rotor.  If you increase your power output then you increase the mechanical power drain on the rotor.  There is nothing extra that you can get from four coils as compared to two coils, in both cases it is theoretically possible to have the same mechanical power drain on the rotor.  Hence when you often read experimenters claim that they are going to add extra coils in hopes of getting free energy, they are believing a popular misconception.

Anyway, my old beaten-horse comment is that for any kind of motor setup with pick-up coils people should start playing with different load resistors.  You don't even need the full-wave bridge rectifier, that's just used by default by lots of experimenters when you don't really need it.

Imagine a typical home-brew Bedini motor or some other type of pulse motor.  If you have a nicely coupled set of pick-up coils, and you find the right load matching resistors, then chances are that the motor will come grinding to a halt.  That might surprise some people.  Get the motor up to speed with no loads on the pick-up coils and then flip a switch to engage the matching load resistors and watch the motor go thunk-thunk-thunk and die.  That's because with well-coupled pick-up coils and matching load resistors can burn off more power than the drive coil can supply all by itself.  The motor slows down under load, slowing the energizing pulse rate which lowers the supplied power.  This causes a positive feedback loop that goes in the "down" direction and the motor eventually stops.

The other popular misconception is that if your pick-up coils have more turns you can get better performance from them.  It's not the case.  The most important factor is the geometry of the coils, not the number of turns.  You want the loop of the coil to be as big as or bigger than the front face of the rotor magnet.  As long as you do that, then you can decide how many turns you want to meet your desired output voltage at your desired RPM.  Obviously if you need a large number of turns then you start getting more resistive losses in the wire of the coil itself.  There are ways around that though.

MileHigh

[ion]

Hi EM

Interesting idea on the use of the SBM

As far as I can tell a single balanced mixer multiplies the Local Oscillator input with the RF input. Granted the output sum will be high in voltage amplitude, but will also be highly load sensitive (high impedance output) therefore there can be no power gain, and assuredly a small loss from diode drops etc.

Expanding on your idea and considering application to the FTPU, lets say one of the loops on the spool feeds the Input,and the Output drives the second loop on the spool. If the coils were phased for positive feedback, this would cause regeneration via air coupling between the coils and voltage multiplication in the mixer.

Probably would be best for the output loop to be parallel resonant (high impedance) and the input coil to be series resonant (low impedance). This would be an optimum match the characteristics of the mixer.

Could you expand a bit on the thought process that led you to the single balanced mixer as a possible TPU solution?

Thanks

[ion]

As will happen, this topic got buried and no one commented on the SBM idea by EMdevices or the comments I added. Give it another look as I did some editing and added a schematic.

Here'e another version showing how the mixer transformer can be a CM choke as seen in SM's FTPU

[stprue]

Some may find this article interesting

http://www.crystalinks.com/levitationtibet.html

[Peterae]

ION

I am in Love with your last diagram

Anyone see an old post i made regarding the OTPU legs

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=38.msg237#msg237

Looks like i may have a new way of capturing the energy from the kick.

I already have circuitry creating the Aetheral event, i just need magnets near the event to couple the common mode choke to the event to capture and convert the energy into a usable form.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=272.msg3783#msg3783

[Grumpy]

ION

I am in Love with your last diagram

Anyone see an old post i made regarding the OTPU legs

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=38.msg237#msg237

Looks like i may have a new way of capturing the energy from the kick.

I already have circuitry creating the Aetheral event, i just need magnets near the event to couple the common mode choke to the event to capture and convert the energy into a usable form.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=272.msg3783#msg3783

I thought I could just apply an orthogonal mag field and convert it but this has not worked out yet.  This has led me back to "rotation" as a requirement and my initial direction.

[Peterae]

G I have a feeling it will work for me, the reason being that when the event occurs i get a tug on a neo magnet, if i bias the common mode choke using a magnet that is close coupled to two event coils i should be able to focus the event energy and try conversion, it is in effect causing a very similar thing to rotation but the movement is converted to linear motion within the legs.

[BEP]

For a long time I thought dual rotation was required in the OTPU, that is, around the vertical axis and the poloidal fashion. I'm still convinced the OTPU is practically the inverse of the others with rotation still being a requirement.

However, a few months ago I settled for the only rotation being poloidal.

Things don't need to rotate to cause rotation.

I like your thinking Peter.

[ion]

Peterae, thanks for your comments,  I may have another schematic coming, having given it more thought.

I certainly remember your post regarding the leg of the TPU and the TV ferrite coil.

There are several factors that make this arrangement interesting. I think most may have missed it. I will list them:

1) Voltage multiplication of the mixer. This allows regeneration when the loop is closed.

2) High current oscillation in the series resonant loop (creates high current that couples back into core via single turn, low impedance of series resonance.)

3) High impedance of parallel loop. Allows the regenerative effect to occur and create quite an electric field since the impedance can rise to near infinity, limited only by the "Q" of the tank.

4) Coupling between the two resonant loops.

5) It is the high current in the series resonant loop that creates the heating effect.

Peterae...where could I find a sketch of what you are now working with? Has it been posted on OUR?
maybe I missed it but am very interested.

[Peterae]

Hi ION

Yeah i could see where EM and yourself were pointing with the mixer, it is very unlikely i am clever enough to get that working so will let you guys carry on your great work.

Thanks for the interest in my circuit.
All the circuits are in my bench, for the above video link the setup is relatively simple.

Here's a brief discovery path.

I built a nS digital Monostable capable of nS pulse delay and nS pulse width control, when 2 of these are fed from a single pulse source one module can be swept on the delay thus phase delaying one channel by 0-255nS, width also has a setting of 0-255nS although after fet stages minimum is about 60nS, I use a micro board to automate the thumb switch increment for phase scan.

Circuit of Digital Mono Board
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=217.0

This led to the discovery of a very sharp pulse appearing using both channels to drive either a bifilar or connecting together to drive one coil, i have loads of videos of this, when one coil was driven by both fet channels every now and then a burst of RF would be released at certain phase delays which caused my electronics to become unstable, this caused random firing of the fet stages, during this random firing of sharp pulses i heard explosion noises from a 22 turn piece of wire wound on a wooden former, i could also hear white noise from the coil.

The Pulse with videos
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=37.0

This was the Explosion in the wire first discovery video

I heard these explosions when i first started TPU research by mixing Fundamental, 2nd and 3rd harmonics in a coil wound on a ferrite ring, the explosion noises were weak and coming from the core. Fundamental Freq was about 35kHz

I then decided to inject white noise into each channel of the digital mono. it occurred to me that SM's discovery path was probably to inject white-noise into his bifilar speaker coil, the digital mono was only really producing narrow pulses i didn't need to use the phase delay for this, with the white-noise generators i could now produce the explosions by driving bifilar coils, before with the re triggering i could only get it using a monofilar drive coil.

White Noise Module
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=273.0

With both channels being driven by white-noise generators the video was taken of the resulting crackling noise from the single core coax which had the bifilar wound axially for the coax length.
Note a 20 Ohm load resistor was across the 1 loop of coax inner wire and was scoped to produce the video