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Author Topic: Tariel kapanadze's Energy Generator  (Read 293715 times)
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@Peterae
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I am sure time will tell, there will be a lot of disgruntled people posting at some point if this is what is happening IMHO, i am surprised there's not more already, i mean if they are being flown in 1 plane after the other, there should already be a wash with fraud complaints if the above post was correct.

I would agree, I think it's a feeding frenzy and it would seem to be the same old story where everyone wants something but nobody is willing to pay the price. It may also be the same old story whereby the inventor is asking for the world and may believe they deserve it but they usually always end up alone and penniless in the end and the technology vaporizes into thin air, as you say time will tell.
It's funny that so many speak of learning from our past, our mistakes, but if what we see and read in the news is any indication I really don't think we have learned a damn thing, same story different people, such is life.

Regards


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I don't like morning people... or mornings or people

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Quote from: allcanadian
It's funny that so many speak of learning from our past, our mistakes,
but if what we see and read in the news is any indication I really don't
think we have learned a damn thing, same story different people, such
is life.

Aye, it goes to show how vulnerable we are to deception when we
wish for something to be true.

The razzle-dazzle of spark gaps and coils will pull them in every time
without fail.

The energy which appears to be emanating from the mysterious device
or circuit is coming from an entirely different source.  Only a few are
able to summon it.


---------------------------
The animal mind ALWAYS reacts to what it does not understand. This is what sets dogs barking. If you are going to tell the truth, you are going to have to be okay with barking dogs, because they will harry your passage until you pass through town.
Les Visible - 27 February 2020
   
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It's turtles all the way down
The "miracle lighting of lamps" shown in the first video in the backyard is easily exposed. 

A disappointed inventor will have to eventually deliver on his claims. That's when he becomes a trickster.

Perform a seeming miracle and there will be many lined up offering money to learn the "secret".


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Aye, it goes to show how vulnerable we are to deception when we
wish for something to be true.

The razzle-dazzle of spark gaps and coils will pull them in every time
without fail.

The energy which appears to be emanating from the mysterious device
or circuit is coming from an entirely different source.  Only a few are
able to summon it.

I remember when I was in middle school, during PE hour we used to observed a couple of our friends who can do back flips.  We think they're gifted and look at them with admiration and amazement.  I went home and practice.  It boils down to overcome the fear of getting injured.  I said screw it and did a first one.  It was not perfect but a second and third try were cakes.  I showed my friend that I could do it.  They didn't see me as gifted... they were provoked for  I am athlete inferior.  Couple of weeks after that everyone doing back flips left and right, high and low, smooth and rough...  I sat on the bench admiring their athlete superiority.  They were happy...I'm happy. 

   

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tExB=qr
In the TK video with the clear box and blue coil inside with twop spark gaps made from two spark plugs, he shows a single wire to ground and operates a 2kw heater.  At one point the heater is knowcked over when they are moving the box, and the heater shuts off (safety switch).  When the heater is off the spark gap rate speeds up. 


This makes me wonder if the gap is just for show.
   
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The "miracle lighting of lamps" shown in the first video in the backyard is easily exposed. 

A disappointed inventor will have to eventually deliver on his claims. That's when he becomes a trickster.

Perform a seeming miracle and there will be many lined up offering money to learn the "secret".

After 5 years, nobody is able to duplicate the Kapanadze's "secret". It looks like the Bed ini's motors of the 90's, alleged to charge the batteries that power the motor: no one has a working version except the author. But surely, both work. No doubt. You must just have faith in the gurus miracles, to believe and pay them for a bright future striking down the petrol industry but endlessly postponed to a later date (like the end of the world). ;D
I built the Kapanadze's device some years ago and found no anomaly. Nevertheless his patents being very obscur, I considered that my setup was possibly erroneous and I kept an open mind about his device, waiting for more information that never came. Now my patience is not inexhaustible and the story begins to smell of scam.
A machine must be makeable according to a patent. In Kapanadze's device, there are black boxes called "filter" or "frequency adjuster". Missing information in the patent is the sign of dishonnest inventors.
There are more and more people that seem to live thanks to money earned from the so-called "free-energy", while we must always subscribe to the grid. Find the error. ;)
 
   
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@Grumpy
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In the TK video with the clear box and blue coil inside with twop spark gaps made from two spark plugs, he shows a single wire to ground and operates a 2kw heater.  At one point the heater is knowcked over when they are moving the box, and the heater shuts off (safety switch).  When the heater is off the spark gap rate speeds up.  

This makes me wonder if the gap is just for show.

I am not so sure, in one of my experiments I needed to switch a relatively low voltage source of 40,000v now can anyone direct me to a mosfet that will switch 40,000v in the ns range?. You see they are non-existent as far as we are concerned however in the right context anyone can do this with a tuned circuit and quenched spark gap. I understand there are many who may think spark gaps are obsolete or archaic however it should be understood that there is no modern replacement for them at extreme voltage levels thus this notion that we are well beyond this kind of technology is false.

@Dumped
Quote
Aye, it goes to show how vulnerable we are to deception when we
wish for something to be true.

I would agree but we should also consider the inverse as there can be no balance in energy or opinions without considering the opposite. Thus we are just as vulnerable to deception when we
wish for something to be false because it does not fit in with our beliefs. I never could understand how people can think so one sided when there is always three perceptions, three conditions , three opinions....( +1, 0, -1) , one perception(+1) then it's opposite(-1) and then a point of neutrality which relates to both and neither (0).

Regards


---------------------------
I don't like morning people... or mornings or people

Be careful when you blindly follow the Masses... sometimes the "M" is silent.
   

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Quote from: allcanadian
Thus we are just as vulnerable to deception when we
wish for something to be false because it does not fit
in with our beliefs

Aye, therein lies the power of propaganda and the
managed media;  the pendulum swings both ways.

The energy which seems to come from the mysterious
circuits and devices is real enough and can be verified
with instrumentation;  but the true souce of the energy
cannot be easily verified.

Some of those who are able to summon it can do so with
just a simple coil; no active components are needed.  Even
they do not understand how it is possible or how they are
able to activate it or where it is coming from.

Spark Gaps, especially the quenched varieties, do have
legitimate function but there is nothing mysterious or
amazing about their operation.



---------------------------
The animal mind ALWAYS reacts to what it does not understand. This is what sets dogs barking. If you are going to tell the truth, you are going to have to be okay with barking dogs, because they will harry your passage until you pass through town.
Les Visible - 27 February 2020
   
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ex,
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Missing information in the patent is the sign of dishonnest inventors...

I like to think that this is a sign of incompetence on the part of the inventor and/or patent lawyer that wrote it.   

The purpose of a patent is to disclose your idea for protection, so you can go to market with confidence and make an investment in equipment, manufacturing, etc.. and know that others won't derail your plans and beat you to market.     Others perhaps see patents as a way to capitalize on them by licensing the technology to others and have no plans to build anything themselves, and there's always corporations that buy up patents and build up a portfolio to control a certain technology domain.   

I don't think TK falls into either category, he is either simply ignorant of the true workings of his device, or he just wants to have an ego boost from a patent so he can display it on his wall.   

I mentioned this before, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the energy comes from the power lines electric fields at 50 Hz, based on what was mentioned in one patent, so perhaps he did disclose it in his second patent after he realized what happens.   The filters filter out the mixer bi-products, and let the 50 Hz pass through, and he says that in the patent.

EM
   
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I rewrote the section that mentions the grid power, see what you think:

Original text   (from patent application  WO 2008/103129 A1,  pg 2, 2nd paragraph)

The first circuit is designed for generating electricity by transferring the electro magnetic field occurred at the first bobbin with the electric energy received from the independent initial power supply, to second bobbin.  And as the second circuit, due to the high magnetic field received from the first bobbin, there occurs a magnetic field difference between the bobbins.  The magnetic field difference occurred between the second bobbin and first bobbin stabilized by the help of frequency stabilizer within this circuit line.  As stabilizing the magnetic field difference by the help of frequency stabilizer, this circuit line also converts the energy which is moving independently in the air at the second bobbin designed within this line to electric energy.  This electric energy formed by the second bobbin adjusts the necessary frequency (220 V-50 Hz or 110 V-60 Hz) for use, by the help of second frequency adjuster designed at the bobbin output.  This generated electric energy is transferred to the intended usage area via exit points   Through the circuit cables connected to the exit points, the device feeds itself with the generated electric energy.  This mentioned process eventuates 102 seconds after the device is got started.  After this process, the time relay power switch designed at the input of the device breaks the initial energy supply.  After this stage, the device generates the energy independently.


Rewriten text:

The first circuit is designed for generating electricity by transferring the electromagnetic field created around the primary coil, with its associated energy that was received from the battery, to the second coil.  

In the second circuit, due to the high magnetic field created by the primary coil, there occurs a magnetic field difference between the primary and secondary coils.

The magnetic field difference (or frequency difference) occurring between the secondary and primary coils is stabilized by the help of the frequency stabilizer within this circuit line.  

While stabilizing the magnetic field difference (or frequency difference), by the help of the frequency stabilizer, this secondary circuit line also converts the energy which is flowing independently in the air at the second coil, to electric energy.  

The electric energy formed by the second coil adjusts its necessary frequency (220 V – 50 Hz or 110 V-60 Hz) for use, by the help of the second frequency adjuster designed at the coil output.  

This generated electric energy is transferred to the intended usage area via the exit points.  Through the circuit cables connected to the exit points, the device feeds itself with the generated electric energy.  

This mentioned process (or closed loop mode) begins 1 or 2 seconds after the device is started.  After this process, the time relay power switch, designed at the input of the device, disconnects the initial energy supply.  After this stage, the device generates the energy independently



Diagram:

I also included the original diagram from the same patent application, along with my redrawn diagram on the right.   Notice I lumped a few elements together so I can simplify and better visualize the main circuit A and B, which are now color coded.


Notice that this whole invention can be diluted down and simplified, since it is the "magnetic field difference" or the frequency difference between the two tank circuits, that converts the energy from the air, and the energy that flows freely through the air is none other than the 50 Hz grid power.    The simpler apprach is to utilize two oscillators that are different in frequency by the right amount.  Or even simpler, use only one oscillator, at the exact frequency of the signal frequency to be received and converted, but at such low frequencies like 50 hz, one needs perhaps a 555 timer IC or a resistive/capacitive network oscillator (wien-bridge).    What's also needed regardless of the scheme, is to be in phase match with the energy in the "air".

EM
« Last Edit: 2012-08-11, 02:22:00 by EMdevices »
   
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It's turtles all the way down
I am in almost complete agreement with your analysis of TK's patent.

Here is where we differ:

Quote
and the energy that flows freely through the air is none other than the 50 Hz grid power.  

and here:

Quote
Or even simpler, use only one oscillator, at the exact frequency of the signal frequency to be received and converted, but at such low frequencies like 50 hz, one needs perhaps a 555 timer IC or a resistive/capacitive network oscillator (wien-bridge).

There is nothing visible in the devices that suggest a line resonant tank coil.

Our differences aside, we could proceed towards source discovery once a working model is replicated.

Nevertheless, we should also proceed to find simple methods of frequency stabilization without the use of PLL's etc. since I don't think TK used such devices.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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The question is: where the energy comes from? There is no significant electrical energy in ground, charges are not energy. Only an imbalance can create energy but energy is also needed to create the cause of imbalance (potential difference, varying magnetic field/induced electric field...) and the total energy is conserved. So none conventional explanation can account for the extra-energy.

If we consider that it's not a scam, and Occam's razor discarding the most extravagant ideas of exotic sources of energy, we are left with nuclear energy as the most likely source (not one else is strong enough for KW), like β decay in Cu or Fe isotopes, which is an idea already analyzed by William J. McFreey. According to him, β decay is obtained from a cyclotron-like process using NMR which requires frequency stabilizers like those we found in TK's patents.
Nevertheless there are flaws in McFreey's explanations. He considers that the ground connection is needed to avoid HV due to the accumulation of charges obtained from β decay. But β decay obeys the charge conservation: as many protons are created as electrons. And he is confusing the electron speed which is of order of mm/s in a conductor, and the electric wave (near the speed of light). His background idea is not bad but his analysis must be revised.

   

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tExB=qr
Perhaps TK discovered, or was told, a new way to separate the charges.
   
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The question is: where the energy comes from? There is no significant electrical energy in ground, charges are not energy. Only an imbalance can create energy
...create? or alternatively to allow it to be imported into our circuit?

I may have missed the point but is the source of energy not the presumed "sea of energy" in which
the Earth floats? Charged particles which jump into existance for a split second and then return
whence they came?

See the last paragraph, the PS, (and various otehr papers on this site) :

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/061603.htm
« Last Edit: 2012-09-05, 15:42:43 by Paul-R »
   
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It's turtles all the way down
ex:

Thanks for the McFreey paper, it was a fun read even if containing errors.

Quote
But β decay obeys the charge conservation: as many protons are created as electrons.

Creating an abundance of electrons and protons from such a perturbation is not a problem to me, as long as they  can somehow be separated and collected before they annihilate.

In this I agree with Grumpy.

Thanks again


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   

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tExB=qr

Creating an abundance of electrons and protons from such a perturbation is not a problem to me, as long as they  can somehow be separated and collected before they annihilate.


From everything I have read, and what little I have seen, this is is true.  The actual mechanism elludes me as I am not sure if charges are made real from virtual when separated, or if real charges are just moved around.  Either way, I view it as a reinterpretation and not a violation of accepted laws.

   
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Perhaps TK discovered, or was told, a new way to separate the charges.

A way to create a perpetual motion of type 1?!
A type 2 would be more likely, and a type 3, I mean a hidden source of energy, much more likely (provided it is not a scam).

   
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From everything I have read, and what little I have seen, this is is true.  The actual mechanism elludes me as I am not sure if charges are made real from virtual when separated, or if real charges are just moved around.  Either way, I view it as a reinterpretation and not a violation of accepted laws.

Virtual particles are just very short life particles, disobeying the conservation laws only inside extremely narrow/short space-time and still obeying them statistically. Imho the accepted laws would be violated if energy was extracted this way.

   
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...
Creating an abundance of electrons and protons from such a perturbation is not a problem to me, as long as they  can somehow be separated and collected before they annihilate.
...

On this point, I didn't say it is a problem. I said it is a problem only relatively to McFreey's analysis: he said that ground is required to keep the electrical neutrality while β decay still keeps by nature the neutrality. So the McFreey's explanation for the ground requirement is wrong.

   

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tExB=qr
Virtual particles are just very short life particles, disobeying the conservation laws only inside extremely narrow/short space-time and still obeying them statistically. Imho the accepted laws would be violated if energy was extracted this way.



Dirac called the particles "virtual" so as not to violate conservation.  Are they really virtual?  I've read that they become "real" if separated.  I'll try to find the reference.
   
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@Paul-R
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I may have missed the point but is the source of energy not the presumed "sea of energy" in which the Earth floats?

I would agree it is and Moray gave some very good examples of how most people are very confused about the concept of energy. I think the average person would agree with Exn's perspective that there is "nothing" there in regards to energy however this perspective is completely misguided.
here is an analogy:
I measure the temperature of a volume of air and the reading is 20 Deg C meaning the air is at 20 Deg C however in reality it is not -- you have been mislead. In reality there are particles near freezing (0 Deg C) and particles near boiling (100 Deg C) and almost none would actually be at 20 Deg C because this measure is nothing more than an average having no real basis in reality.

The issue here is what I call "selective science" and Exn would seem to be very good at it, that is when a person tells us there is no energy present but in the same context believe's there is a near infinite amount of energy present. In a given volume there are massive temperature gradients which are averaged to ambient, there are massive amounts of ionization and charge imbalance due to naturally occuring radiation which are averaged to zero, there are EM waves which again are all averaged to zero and the fields related to all the above are averaged or sum to zero.

They believe in the sea of energy concept because it is a proven fact that all matter and space contains massive amounts of energy that is almost beyond comprehension and then tell us there is no energy present because they "believe" they can average it all out so it amounts to nothing. Funny concept, however not one I believe in because it does not represent the true reality of the situation nor is it real science but moreso an opinion of it.

Regards


---------------------------
I don't like morning people... or mornings or people

Be careful when you blindly follow the Masses... sometimes the "M" is silent.
   
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Dirac called the particles "virtual" so as not to violate conservation.  Are they really virtual?  I've read that they become "real" if separated.  I'll try to find the reference.

They are not really virtual  :), they are real but the time of their life is so short that their behavior differs from the real particle. For example a real photon has a frequency and a wave length. But how a virtual photon could have a frequency when it exists only during a time shorter than its period by many orders of magnitude? How a virtual photon could have a wavelength when it exists only in a space shorter than its wavelength by many orders of magnitude?
A virtual particle can be viewed as an attempt of birth of its equivalent real particle, then aborted.

   
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...
The issue here is what I call "selective science" and Exn would seem to be very good at it, that is when a person tells us there is no energy present but in the same context believe's there is a near infinite amount of energy present. In a given volume there are massive temperature gradients which are averaged to ambient, there are massive amounts of ionization and charge imbalance due to naturally occuring radiation which are averaged to zero, there are EM waves which again are all averaged to zero and the fields related to all the above are averaged or sum to zero.

They believe in the sea of energy concept because it is a proven fact that all matter and space contains massive amounts of energy that is almost beyond comprehension and then tell us there is no energy present because they "believe" they can average it all out so it amounts to nothing. Funny concept, however not one I believe in because it does not represent the true reality of the situation nor is it real science but moreso an opinion of it.
...

"The elite minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, mediocre minds discuss people."
Jules Romains

The problem has never concerned the "massive amounts of energy" but the method to extract it. Must we wait that the pigs fly before taking this into account?
There is energy in the ZPE, in the ambiant heat, in the "radiant energy"..., some see it everywhere like a religious sees god, and the layman concludes that it is easy to get it because the reservoirs are enormous. But the energy to be in the ZPE or in the matter by the virtue of M*c² or everywhere else doesn't change anything: there must be a source of energy and we must extract it. So when someone as Kapanadze pretends to succeed, both questions of the source of energy and the method to extract it must be asked. As nobody knows the method, maybe an idea about the source could be a help to discover the method. McFreey proposes one. LENR is the more likely possibility. I don't prevent anyone to begin by the most extravagant and crazy hypotheses when analysing a system, but it's neither my method nor this from McFreey.

   
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In my opinion Tariels devices, leave too much room for trickery.
I think the patents "applications" could well be just to reinforce the scam, as a kind of false legitimacy.
My way of thinking tells me that unless the devices can be inspected by qualified people, there will always be the chance it is just a fake.

The garden video where he buries a radiator. Could what I've drawn in the sketch be done and work ?

The two "grounds" could be connected to the device to charge the battery, and a voltage correction circuit could be used to
get the voltage back to 230v or whatever, so the voltage drop through the resistance of the ground would not be an issue
He could get 180 volts at the required amperage to make 230v @ 20 amps or so.

The concern about "heat" could be legitimate but the haste to keep turning the device off could be to save money
or to avoid too much unmetered power to be drawn if it was taken before the meter, although that would be unnecessary.
The power used for the demo could be metered and paid for. But it would eat into his profits for the demonstration.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd168/Toey1/Trick001.jpg
Tariel kapanadze's Energy Generator


No accusations, just an idea I had of how it could be faked. And that's just one.

Cheers

P.S> The radiator wire and the tap wire could connect to a FWBR with a capacitor connected then an inverter circuit
could correct the voltage/ frequency. Any number of neat tricks could be done.

Anyone know of a guy called David Copperfield, an illusionist, I bet he could recreate or even better Tariels Demo's.

The problem I perceive is that when a demo is done not many people consider ways it could be faked, most just want to believe,
so they don't consider the other possibilities. This would make deception even easier. Then there are the zealots who abuse anyone who
suggests a "chance" of fakery. They make deception easier as well by discouraging discussion of possible faking methods.

.

..
   

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tExB=qr

The problem has never concerned the "massive amounts of energy" but the method to extract it. Must we wait that the pigs fly before taking this into account?
There is energy in the ZPE, in the ambiant heat, in the "radiant energy"..., some see it everywhere like a religious sees god, and the layman concludes that it is easy to get it because the reservoirs are enormous. But the energy to be in the ZPE or in the matter by the virtue of M*c² or everywhere else doesn't change anything: there must be a source of energy and we must extract it. So when someone as Kapanadze pretends to succeed, both questions of the source of energy and the method to extract it must be asked. As nobody knows the method, maybe an idea about the source could be a help to discover the method. McFreey proposes one. LENR is the more likely possibility. I don't prevent anyone to begin by the most extravagant and crazy hypotheses when analysing a system, but it's neither my method nor this from McFreey.

Do you mean an imbalanace of energy that already exist for use to re-balance?  Then we only need harness the imbalance that nature has provided.

We can also look for other means to create the imbalance.  We have electrostatic induction and electromagnetic induction, is there not another means of induction casued by a gradient that we have missed?

   
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